JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate => Topic started by: Tom Graves on March 02, 2026, 09:57:17 AM
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Dear James,
On 3 November 2025, you posted the following on page 14 of Storing's "Coupla Guys" thread:
While recently [watching a movie] I saw what looks like a possible fit for the Nat Geo “island” car [a 1958 Pontiac Bonneville]. The 1959 Ford Fairlane Galaxy 500 has a body length of 17.5’. I modeled my highly acclaimed “Lego Car” with a 17.5’ length and positioned it in my 3D model using a Robert Hughes frame of the doorway that shows the nose of the car. When viewing from a Wiegman position it is obvious the 17.5’ length extends about 5-6’ to the west [i.e., to the left] of the black suited man [“Fedora Man”]. This is what Royell has stated in his postings. I had to shorten the test car to just under 12’ length to completely mask it with the black suit guy [“Fedora Man”].
Questions and points of disagreement:
1) Since we can see only about two feet of the rear part of Storing’s 17.5-foot 1958 Pontiac Bonneville “Getaway Car” to the left of "Fedora Man" in Wiegman, I’m afraid your measurements are a bit off.
2) In Wiegman, the aforementioned two feet of Storing's 1958 Pontiac Bonneville "Getaway Car" overlap the front(?) half(?) of a light-colored car parked on the other side of Elm Street Extension, fooling Storing and perhaps others into believing they're seeing one car (a mutant car parked across Elm Street Extension) instead of two (a composite comprised of the car across Elm Street Extension and Storing's overlapping 1958 Pontiac Bonneville "Getaway Car" parked next to the "island").
3) Question: Could that light-colored car on the other side of Elm Street Extension in Wiegman be the light-colored car we can just barely catch a glimpse of directly above the shoulder of the bending-over man at 8:55 in the National Geographic documentary? (Hint: You've gotta go "click-click, click-click" really fast to find it.)
4) Given that Storing’s 1958 Pontiac Bonneville "Getaway Car" is visually overlapping the front 3/4 of the light-colored Ford Fairlane 500 on the other side of Elm Street Extension in the William Allen photo on page 28 of the "Coupla Guys" thread (which photo was taken from a different angle than Wiegman and shows a burly policeman watching the Three Tramps walk past him), it’s ironic that you chose a light-colored 1959 Ford Fairlane 500 to "stand in" for Storing’s 1958 Pontiac Bonneville in your model of the Wiegman scene, thereby probably confusing oodles and gobs of people, myself included.
-- Tom
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In the face of these ever changing Lego "visual aids", we know in reality what we do Not see on the Wiegman Film. There is NO 17.5 Foot long car, standing at close to 5 feet tall, parked inside the, "NO PARKING At Any Time" zone alongside the Island. When you get right down to it, what you are attempting to sell this forum is the existence of an enormous "Rectangle Of Invisibility" alongside the Island.
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In the face of these ever changing Lego "visual aids", we know in reality what we do Not see on the Wiegman Film. There is NO 17.5 Foot long car, standing at close to 5 feet tall, parked inside the, "NO PARKING At Any Time" zone alongside the Island. When you get right down to it, what you are attempting to sell this forum is the existence of an enormous "Rectangle Of Invisibility" alongside the Island.
Yes, there is, Storing.
It's just that you refuse to see it.
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Yes there is, Storing.
You just refuse to see it.
The above is confirmation of the belief that there is a"Rectangle Of Invisibility" alongside the Island. This belief of a "phantom car" is directly in line with all of the Lego "Looney Tune" Visual Aids.
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The above is confirmation of the belief that there is a "Rectangle Of Invisibility" alongside the Island. This belief of a "phantom car" is directly in line with all of the Lego "Looney Tune" Visual Aids.
Keep on believing whatever your KGB-influenced anti-"Deep State" confirmation bias dictates, Storing.
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Dear James,
On 3 November 2025, you posted the following on page 14 of Storing's "Coupla Guys" thread:
While recently [watching a movie] I saw what looks like a possible fit for the Nat Geo “island” car [a 1958 Pontiac Bonneville]. The 1959 Ford Fairlane Galaxy 500 has a body length of 17.5’. I modeled my highly acclaimed “Lego Car” with a 17.5’ length and positioned it in my 3D model using a Robert Hughes frame of the doorway that shows the nose of the car. When viewing from a Wiegman position it is obvious the 17.5’ length extends about 5-6’ to the west [i.e., to the left] of the black suited man [“Fedora Man”]. This is what Royell has stated in his postings. I had to shorten the test car to just under 12’ length to completely mask it with the black suit guy [“Fedora Man”].
Questions and points of disagreement:
1) Since we can see only about two feet of the rear part of Storing’s 17.5-foot 1958 Pontiac Bonneville “Getaway Car” to the left of "Fedora Man" in Wiegman, I’m afraid your measurements are a bit off.
Most of the car is blocked by the spectators. Only the cab area and a bit of the rear end is visible in Wiegman's view. The spec height for a 1958 Pontiac Bonneville is ~55”. With a 9” curb the car appears to be about 46” to the camera-easily blocked by the adults. I think a view of the tail end is visible just to “Purse Woman”'s right arm.
2) In Wiegman, the aforementioned two feet of Storing's 1958 Pontiac Bonneville "Getaway Car" overlap the front(?) half(?) of a light-colored car parked on the other side of Elm Street Extension, fooling Storing and perhaps others into believing they're seeing one car (a mutant car parked across Elm Street Extension) instead of two (a composite comprised of the car across Elm Street Extension and Storing's overlapping 1958 Pontiac Bonneville "Getaway Car" parked next to the "island").
The photo evidence does not support either scenario.
3) Question: Could that light-colored car on the other side of Elm Street Extension in Wiegman be the light-colored car we can just barely catch a glimpse of directly above the shoulder of the bending-over man at 8:55 in the National Geographic documentary? (Hint: You've gotta go "click-click, click-click" really fast to find it.)
No cars parked along the north curb in front of the TSBD are possibly visible through the “Gap” in the reference Wiegman frame I'm using for modeling.
4) Given that Storing’s 1958 Pontiac Bonneville "Getaway Car" is visually overlapping the front 3/4 of the light-colored Ford Fairlane 500 on the other side of Elm Street Extension in the William Allen photo on page 28 of the "Coupla Guys" thread (which photo was taken from a different angle than Wiegman and shows a burly policeman watching the Three Tramps walk past him), it’s ironic that you chose a light-colored 1959 Ford Fairlane 500 to "stand in" for Storing’s 1958 Pontiac Bonneville in your model of the Wiegman scene, thereby probably confusing oodles and gobs of people, myself included.
Hmm. Just a little ESP maybe? These graphics show that a 1958 Pontiac Bonneville is parked, just where we see it in Wiegman, Darnell, Hughes and Alyea films.
-- Tom
Note: Duncan is allowing posting Imgur images as long as I also post a link with a Google Drive for those who can't see the embedded graphics. Thanks Duncan!
The first animated GIF shows a 17.5' 1968 Pontiac Bonneville located on the Elm Extension at about 12:53. Tom Alyea's film taken from the 7th floor, basically 30' above Elsie Dorman's location, shows the front end about 2' west of the lamppost shadow. I'm displaying the views of both Alyea and Wiegman as the position of the car is moved eastward 10' in 1' increments. The car moves about 8' before the taillights are viewable in the Wiegman “Gap”. The initial position is also consistent with the Robert Hughes film of the TSBD doorway taken shortly after the assassination.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tY_vsj_xSjVI4Gz2lr4YQWfyPCxQrfHL/view?usp=drive_link(https://i.imgur.com/a8QSli3.gif)
A second graphic shows the view from the Wiegman film through the open area “Gap” between the “Fedora Man” and the woman to his right. It was alleged that the 1958 Pontiac Bonneville (Getaway Car) we see in the Wiegman film is not parked on the south side of the extension (nearest to the camera) but is actually a car parked on the north side of the extension-near the Huge Gates. This graphic compares these two scenarios. The north curb car is actually parked just west of the TSBD's west corner. It is partially blocking motorized egress through the gates. I say the car is parked at the south curb nearest the “Fedora Man”. You make the call for yourself.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1swc2Q_86arxdKyaKdMOWme1ZgXqIwnjW/view?usp=drive_link
(https://i.imgur.com/UMR8mVc.gif)
James
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[The following] graphic shows the view from the Wiegman film through the open area “Gap” between the “Fedora Man” and the woman to his right. It was alleged that the 1958 Pontiac Bonneville (Getaway Car) we see in the Wiegman film is not parked on the south side of the extension (nearest to the camera) but is actually a car parked on the north side of the extension-near the Huge Gates. This graphic compares these two scenarios. The north curb car is actually parked just west of the TSBD's west corner. It is partially blocking motorized egress through the gates. I say the car is parked at the south curb nearest the “Fedora Man”. You make the call for yourself.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1swc2Q_86arxdKyaKdMOWme1ZgXqIwnjW/view?usp=drive_link
If I understand what you're saying, I agree with you that between "Purse Lady" and "Fedora Man" in Wiegman we can see that the 1958 Pontiac Bonneville is parked next to the "island."
What you don't seem to realize is that it's visually overlapping the front one-third or so of a light-colored car that's parked-the-wrong-way on the other side of Elm Street Extension in that gap between "Purse lady" and "Fedora Man," making them almost look like one car.
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If I understand what you're saying, I agree with you that between "Purse Lady" and "Fedora Man" in Wiegman we can see that the 1958 Pontiac Bonneville is parked next to the "island."
What you don't seem to realize is that it's visually overlapping the front one-third or so of a light-colored car that's parked-the-wrong-way on the other side of Elm Street Extension in that gap between "Purse lady" and "Fedora Man," making them almost look like one car.
Thomas,
Is this something like you are seeing? How should I position the Huge Gates car? Should I put the S curb car on blocks?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nNl5q1QI_KXwykynuqmvp5JdlM1BreNQ/view?usp=drive_link
(https://i.imgur.com/Q6cthJr.jpeg)
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Regarding the visible part of your "single car" between "Purse Lady" and "Fedora Man" at the 1:47 mark in Weigman, why is its "lower" front part "two-tone" color-wise but the rear part monochrome, why does the "lower" front part have two parallel and nearly horizontal dark lines about two feet apart whereas the rear part doesn't, and why does the top edge of dark color of the front part taper off in the middle of your "single car" the way it does?
Shadows from the oak tree?
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Regarding the visible part of your "single car" between "Purse Lady" and "Fedora Man" at the 1:47 mark in Weigman, why is its "lower" front part "two-tone" color-wise but the rear part monochrome, why does the "lower" front part have two parallel and nearly horizontal dark lines about two feet apart whereas the rear part doesn't, and why does the top edge of dark color of the front part taper off in the middle of your "single car" the way it does?
Shadows from the oak tree?
Yes, shadows from the Giant Live Oak tree. I think, but am not really sure I understand your description. Look at the visual in post #5. See the image from Alyea. Look close at the “Getaway Car”. See those grayish smears all over the car? Those are shadows. Look at the Robert Hughes film where he shoots over the hood towards the TSBD doorway. The car is covered with shadow. What is a little strange about this Hughes frame is the color of the car is kinda a bluish-green. But so is Sawyers' car. Must be color response of the film in the shade. IDK.
James
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Yes, shadows from the Giant Live Oak tree. I think, but am not really sure I understand your description. Look at the visual in post #5. See the image from Alyea. Look close at the “Getaway Car”. See those grayish smears all over the car? Those are shadows. Look at the Robert Hughes film where he shoots over the hood towards the TSBD doorway. The car is covered with shadow. What is a little strange about this Hughes frame is the color of the car is kinda a bluish-green. But so is Sawyers' car. Must be color response of the film in the shade. IDK.
James
Regarding the parallel, nearly horizontal and approximately two-feet-apart lines on the "lower-front part" of your "single car" (which aren't visible on the other part of your "single car"), just look at the frame in Wiegman at the (click-click) "1:47" mark where the tip of the fin on the car in front of Weigman's is touching the right foot of the woman "in white" standing about ten feet to "Fedora Man's" right, will ya?
How could shadows from an oak tree create those straight-and-parallel lines?
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Note: Duncan is allowing posting Imgur images as long as I also post a link with a Google Drive for those who can't see the embedded graphics. Thanks Duncan!
The first animated GIF shows a 17.5' 1968 Pontiac Bonneville located on the Elm Extension at about 12:53. Tom Alyea's film taken from the 7th floor, basically 30' above Elsie Dorman's location, shows the front end about 2' west of the lamppost shadow. I'm displaying the views of both Alyea and Wiegman as the position of the car is moved eastward 10' in 1' increments. The car moves about 8' before the taillights are viewable in the Wiegman “Gap”. The initial position is also consistent with the Robert Hughes film of the TSBD doorway taken shortly after the assassination.
A second graphic shows the view from the Wiegman film through the open area “Gap” between the “Fedora Man” and the woman to his right. It was alleged that the 1958 Pontiac Bonneville (Getaway Car) we see in the Wiegman film is not parked on the south side of the extension (nearest to the camera) but is actually a car parked on the north side of the extension-near the Huge Gates. This graphic compares these two scenarios. The north curb car is actually parked just west of the TSBD's west corner. It is partially blocking motorized egress through the gates. I say the car is parked at the south curb nearest the “Fedora Man”. You make the call for yourself.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1swc2Q_86arxdKyaKdMOWme1ZgXqIwnjW/view?usp=drive_link
James
Great work as usual James, thank you very much. I am beginning to change my opinion and agree with your assessment and abandon my initial assessment. i can see how a shadow could have fooled me. I am wondering if you can demonstrate the shadow so we can compare it to the Weigman image, and indicate the approximate position of the tree limb that created the shadow. The value of a great 3D model shows itself again. Thanks.
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Great work as usual James, thank you very much. I am beginning to change my opinion and agree with your assessment and abandon my initial assessment. i can see how a shadow could have fooled me. I am wondering if you can demonstrate the shadow so we can compare it to the Weigman image, and indicate the approximate position of the tree limb that created the shadow. The value of a great 3D model shows itself again. Thanks.
With respect to the Alyea photo, you guys have fallen into the trap of solely having your eyes fixed on the "getaway" car. Try widening your attention to the Long Shadows being cast by the people standing close to that "getaway" car. Then, compare that to the Short shadows being cast by people standing around the Island in the Wiegman Film Footage. Tick/Tock involved big time.
And the posted Hughes image of the "getaway" car is a Still Frame. You are restricting your observation(s) to only a single piece of that FILM. Conclusions and Opinions should be based on ALL of the evidence.
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Regarding the parallel, nearly horizontal and approximately two-feet-apart lines on the "lower-front part" of your "single car" (which aren't visible on the other part of your "single car"), just look at the frame in Wiegman at the (click-click) "1:47" mark where the tip of the fin on the car in front of Weigman's is touching the right foot of the woman "in white" standing about ten feet to "Fedora Man's" right, will ya?
How could shadows from an oak tree create those straight-and-parallel lines?
Tom, what an awesome request. While reviewing the Hughes film frames I found close up identical shadow patterns in the same area as the “Getaway Car”. This is a DNA scale identification of the Wiegman “Gap” shadow car being in the same location within a few minutes with the Hughes car!!!
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_QAs5E8-X2Sr5Wji-MBHINvR7-o7IrkQ/view?usp=drive_lin
(https://i.imgur.com/mYNRKbI.jpeg)
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With respect to the Alyea photo, you guys have fallen into the trap of solely having your eyes fixed on the "getaway" car. Try widening your attention to the Long Shadows being cast by the people standing close to that "getaway" car. Then, compare that to the Short shadows being cast by people standing around the Island in the Wiegman Film Footage. Tick/Tock involved big time.
More baloney from imaginary anomaly spotter Royell Storing! Boy, I don't envy those flim alterationists who had to painstakingly edit the shadows made by people in cars in Dealey Plaza. Hope they got overtime, or at least a free lunch?
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Tom, what an awesome request. While reviewing the Hughes film frames I found close up identical shadow patterns in the same area as the “Getaway Car”. This is a DNA scale identification of the Wiegman “Gap” shadow car being in the same location within a few minutes with the Hughes car!!!
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_QAs5E8-X2Sr5Wji-MBHINvR7-o7IrkQ/view?usp=drive_lin
Nice work, James!
Storing's "Getaway Car" was there all along!
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Funny to see you guys knee-jerking with this consistently changing alleged "shadows" stuff. What is this? Take #4? And this "process" previously crashed-and-burned with the claimed "Wide Open" Huge Gates when Officer Harkness and Euins passed by them on the Martin Film. What you seriously need is a good copy of the Wiegman film. There's no question the Wiegman Film car is on the TSBD side of the Elm St Ext. Right in front of the Corvair. And this is further validated by the National Geographic snippet showing the TSBD side of the Elm St Ext. But go ahead and roll out the alleged "shadows" with the Lego Cars and the Lego Figures being placed out of position. Peer Review is howling at this ongoing 6th grade project.
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Funny to see you guys knee-jerking with this consistently changing alleged "shadows" stuff. What is this? Take #4? And this "process" previously crashed-and-burned with the claimed "Wide Open" Huge Gates when Officer Harkness and Euins passed by them on the Martin Film. What you seriously need is a good copy of the Wiegman film. There's no question the Wiegman Film car is on the TSBD side of the Elm St Ext. Right in front of the Corvair. And this is further validated by the National Geographic snippet showing the TSBD side of the Elm St Ext. But go ahead and roll out the alleged "shadows" with the Lego Cars and the Lego Figures being placed out of position. Peer Review is howling at this ongoing 6th grade project.
Dear Royell,
Can you see the shadows cast by the branches and leaves of the oak tree on the 1958 Pontiac Bonneville in the Hughes clip?
Good!
Can you see roughly the same pattern of shadows (different due to a change in angle and a change in time, but still recognizable) on something close to the "island" between "Fedora Man" and "Purse Lady" around the 1:47 mark in the Wiegman film and in James' montage?
Good!
Isn't it logical to conclude that the object that those shadows are being cast upon is your 1958 Pontiac Bonneville "Getaway Car"?
-- Tom
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Peer Review is howling at this ongoing 6th grade project.
Not as much as it howls at your laughable claims about JFK film and photo fakery.
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Tom, what an awesome request. While reviewing the Hughes film frames I found close up identical shadow patterns in the same area as the “Getaway Car”. This is a DNA scale identification of the Wiegman “Gap” shadow car being in the same location within a few minutes with the Hughes car!!!
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_QAs5E8-X2Sr5Wji-MBHINvR7-o7IrkQ/view?usp=drive_lin
BUMP - The passage of time between Weigman filming the Island vs Hughes filming the "getaway" car would not result in, "close up IDENTICAL SHADOW patterns...". This is now Shadow Screw-Up #5.
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BUMP - The passage of time between Weigman filming the Island vs Hughes filming the "getaway" car would not result in, "close up IDENTICAL SHADOW patterns...". This is now Shadow Screw-Up #5.
Dear Royell,
What do you think the shadows from the oak tree that are visible between "Purse Lady" and "Fedora Man" are cast onto?
A car on the other side of Elm Street Extension?
The wall of the TSBD?
-- Tom
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Dear Royell,
What do you think the shadows from the oak tree that are visible between "Purse Lady" and "Fedora Man" are cast onto?
A car on the other side of Elm Street Extension?
The wall of the TSBD?
-- Tom
The visual aid "analysis" now being thrown out there is that a Hughes Film tree limb shadow, has the same "close up IDENTICAL SHADOW PATTERN" as a Wiegman Film tree limb shadow. Anyone endorsing this "analysis" should be over on Facebook. Posting alongside those creating visual aids of SA Greer turning around and shooting JFK head on.
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The visual aid "analysis" now being thrown out there is that a Hughes Film tree limb shadow, has the same "close up IDENTICAL SHADOW PATTERN" as a Wiegman Film tree limb shadow. Anyone endorsing this "analysis" should be over on Facebook. Posting alongside those creating visual aids of SA Greer turning around and shooting JFK head on.
Dear Royell,
The shadows that were cast on a large object that immediately next to the "island" between the "Purse Lady" and "Fedora Man" in Wiegman (which object you mistakenly believe was a car parked on the other side of Elm Street Extension) were sufficiently similar -- in spite of the fact that they were photographed at different times and from different distances and angles -- to those falling on your 1958 Pontiac Bonneville "Getaway Car" in Hughes as to prove that the large object between "Purse Lady" and "Fedora Man" was nothing other than the 1958 Pontiac Bonneville -- which you've already admitted was in exactly the same spot in Hughes.
In other words, IT WAS THERE ALL ALONG.
LOL!
-- Tom
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Whether it be a tree limb or any other object, the shadow of such changes over the course of time as the light source/Sun moves. There is this passage of time between Wiegman filming the Island, and Hughes filming the "getaway" car. Like a drowning man, you are glomming onto whatever BS: drifts by. This BS: would include: (1) Incorrectly placed Lego Cars, (2) Incorrectly placed Lego Men, (3) Incorrectly placed Lego Women, (4) Incorrectly placed Elm St curb, (5) "IDENTICAL Shadow Pattern", and (6) "DNA Scale Identification". You are now going under for the 6th time. Do your own research!
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Like a drowning man, you are glomming onto whatever drifts by, including "IDENTICAL Shadow Pattern."
Dear Royell,
I know you're desperate, but there's no need for you to lie and exaggerate.
I never said it was an IDENTICAL shadow pattern -- how could it be, given the fact that the sun had already moved a bit in the sky and Hughes had filmed it from a much closer position and different angle than Wiegman had?
D'oh!
Just admit that while Wiegman was filming, your 1958 Pontiac Bonneville "Getaway Car" was parked right next to the "island" -- partly visible between "Purse Lady" and "Fedora Man" -- right where it still was in the Hughes clip several minutes later and with the same recognizable shadows on it.
-- Tom
PS At least you admit that shadows are being cast on something between "Purse Lady" and "Fedora Man," so there's a smidgen of hope for you yet.
Unless, of course, you think (sic) that that "something" is a car parked on the other side of Elm Street Extension, or the TSBD wall, or some such thing.
LOL!
-- Tom
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Dear Royell,
The shadows that were cast on a large object that immediately next to the "island" between the "Purse Lady" and "Fedora Man" in Wiegman (which object you mistakenly believe was a car parked on the other side of Elm Street Extension) were sufficiently similar -- in spite of the fact that they were photographed at different times and from different distances and angles -- to those falling on your 1958 Pontiac Bonneville "Getaway Car" in Hughes as to prove that the large object between "Purse Lady" and "Fedora Man" was nothing other than the 1958 Pontiac Bonneville -- which you've already admitted was in exactly the same spot in Hughes.
In other words, IT WAS THERE ALL ALONG.
LOL!
-- Tom
BUMP - What you are parroting above is the Hackerott Shadow Theory. Are you now trying to take credit for his theory? This would be like stealing a car up on blocks.
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What you are parroting above is the HACKROTTE Shadow Theory. Are you now trying to take credit for his theory? This would be like stealing a car up on blocks.
Dear Royell Pain in the You-Know-What,
Do try to keep up, won't you?
I've already told you that James was right about the shadows being cast on your 1958 Pontiac Bonneville "Getaway Car" in Wiegman, and that you and I, for different reasons, stupidly talked him out of it.
The only "credit" I can take is motivating him to look for other photographic images of shadows being cast on said "Getaway Car."
Thank God he had the presence of mind to take a close look at the Hughes clip.
Case Closed on Royell Storing's mythological "Getaway Car," and the Shelley and Lovelady "look-alike" bad guys who had "bailed on it there."
LOL!
-- Tom
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The claimed "DNA" Shadow of a tree limb being scrutinized over the passage of time is laughable. On top of that, you have no idea how comic book funny this is.
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The claimed "DNA" shadow of a tree limb being scrutinized over the passage of time is laughable.
Dear Royell,
Take that up with James if you want to.
The fact remains that James has proved that your 1958 Pontiac Bonneville "Getaway Car" was there all along.
Bottom line: You're looking even more foolish than usual.
-- Tom
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Dear Royell,
Take that up with James if you want to.
The fact remains that James has proved that your 1958 Pontiac Bonneville "Getaway Car" was there all along.
Bottom line: You're looking even more foolish than usual.
-- Tom
"Take that up with James"? You mouth the Hackerott Theory, but are completely unable to defend it? This is what I mean by you're drowning and grabbing at whatever BS: floats by. Your laziness would not be tolerated out of a, "The dog ate my homework", school kid.
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Xx xxxx xxxxxxxx, Storing.