JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate => Topic started by: Gerry Down on January 01, 2026, 09:36:50 PM
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Experiment shows that a bullet fired through a 1961 Lincoln Continental windshield would make a very large noticeable hole rather than the small hole that a pencil would go through as some witnesses reported. These witnesses were most likely describing the concentrated crack in the windshield as can be seen in photos, which from a distance might mistakenly look like a through-and-through hole.
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GD--
Thanks for posting.
The "JFK was shot from the front" narrative has always been squishy.
There are zero witnesses to any gunsels in the front of JFK. Sam Holland's railroad crew was atop the Third Street overpass.
The forensics papers seem written with agendas, on all sides.
The purported blowout in the rear of JFK's skull, on his right side, should have thrown matter onto motorcyle cops to the limo's right. But matter was thrown to JFK's left.
My take is JFK was shot from behind. The GK? Maybe.
Caveat emptor, and draw your own conclusions....
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The windshield was placed in the conference room where the Warren Commission held the witness testimonies. Many witnesses saw the windshield. None of the witnesses who wrote of their experience in the Warren Commission’s conference room said there was a hole through the windshield.
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The windshield was placed in the conference room where the Warren Commission held the witness testimonies. Many witnesses saw the windshield. None of the witnesses who wrote of their experience in the Warren Commission’s conference room said there was a hole through the windshield.
Cite your source.
Why would any witness be expected to comment in the record on something sitting there but was not asked about?
Most witnesses in Dallas gave depositions to one attorney and stenographer at the U.S. Attorney's Office in the local Post Office Building.
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Cite your source.
Why would any witness be expected to comment in the record on something sitting there but was not asked about?
Most witnesses in Dallas gave depositions to one attorney and stenographer at the U.S. Attorney's Office in the local Post Office Building.
“Assignment: Oswald” by James Hosty, page 193:
On the day of his testimony to the commission (May 1964 if I remember correctly):
In the middle of the room was a long conference table. At the far end was a large executive-type desk, and sitting on it was the windshield from President Kennedy’s limousine. The day before, Stern had shown this windshield to Belmont, Fain, Quigley, and me. We could see pock-marks on the inside of the windshield. Stern explained that forensic experts had determined that the pockmarks were consistent with highspeed bullet fragments hitting it.
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“Assignment: Oswald” by James Hosty, page 193:
On the day of his testimony to the commission (May 1964 if I remember correctly):
In the middle of the room was a long conference table. At the far end was a large executive-type desk, and sitting on it was the windshield from President Kennedy’s limousine. The day before, Stern had shown this windshield to Belmont, Fain, Quigley, and me. We could see pock-marks on the inside of the windshield. Stern explained that forensic experts had determined that the pockmarks were consistent with highspeed bullet fragments hitting it.
So it was Hosty and his testimony drew no questions from it.
So not many. A few FBI agents informally not expected to comment on it
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So it was Hosty and his testimony drew no questions from it.
So not many. A few FBI agents informally not expected to comment on it
Google AI says:
“Yes, the windshield from the JFK assassination limousine was brought into the Warren Commission's hearing room and accepted as evidence on March 9, 1964.
The item, designated Commission Exhibit (CE) 351, was carried into the room wrapped in a blanket for examination by the commission members. Secret Service agents, including Roy H. Kellerman, who was in the front seat of the limousine during the shooting, were present to testify.
The windshield was a key piece of physical evidence in the investigation, particularly regarding the path of the bullets. FBI experts determined that an abrasion on the inner surface of the glass was caused by a bullet fragment impacting it from the inside of the car, corroborating the conclusion that all shots came from behind the limousine.
Today, the windshield is preserved as evidence and held by the National Archives. You can view images of the windshield through the National Archives catalog.”
https://www.google.com/search?q=was+the+windshield+from+the+JFK+assassination+limo+displayed+in+the+hearing+room+of+the+Warren+Commission+during+the+hearings&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari (https://www.google.com/search?q=was+the+windshield+from+the+JFK+assassination+limo+displayed+in+the+hearing+room+of+the+Warren+Commission+during+the+hearings&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari)
So, it was brought into the room on March 9, 1964 and was still there in May when Hosty testified. I would assume that many other witnesses saw the windshield in that room.
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Google AI says:
So, it was brought into the room on March 9, 1964 and was still there in May for windshield when Hosty testified. I would assume that many other witnesses saw the windshield in that room.
It was shown to a few witnesses that made no comment..and there is no basis to assume others had seen it or expected to comment.
Or that it was even in the same room that witnesses testified in from March until May. It was wrapped in a blanket
Hosty testified April 8, '64 (google A-I)- was probably called in March 9th with the other FBI agents to view it. Kellerman was March 9th.
there are certainly not "...many other witnesses"
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It was shown to a few witnesses that made no comment..and there is no basis to assume others had seen it or expected to comment.
Or that it was even in the same room that witnesses testified in from March until May. It was wrapped in a blanket
Hosty testified April 8, '64 (google A-I)- was probably called in March 9th with the other FBI agents to view it. Kellerman was March 9th.
there are certainly not "...many other witnesses"
It is still in the archives. If anyone questions whether or not there is a hole through it, go see it for yourself.
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The FBI's Robert Frazier examined the limo and the windshield. He testified that the windshield was actually two separate sheets of glass molded together to form one windshield. He stated that the inner sheet, the side facing the limo's interior, had a crack in it. The outer sheet, the side facing outside the limo, was smooth. This was not a through and through hole; only a crack.
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It is still in the archives. If anyone questions whether or not there is a hole through it, go see it for yourself.
Dulles and Specter discussed the Commission viewing the windshield during the Robert Frazier testimony.
Mr. DULLES - May I just ask a question of you, Mr. Specter, and possibly of the witness.
I assume that the windshield we are now discussing is the windshield that was exhibited to the Commission several weeks ago and which members of the Commission examined?
Mr. SPECTER - It was, Mr. Dulles, and we can establish that, of record, through another Commission Exhibit which is 351, which was the number given to the windshield and we have a reproduction here through the photograph.
Mr. DULLES - You don't have the windshield here today, though?
Mr. SPECTER - No, we do not.
Mr. DULLES - It would be the same windshield that the Commission saw.
Anyway, I'm not sure what the point in this is. Other than the typical quibbling and demands by the conspiracy crowd.
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/frazr2.htm
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Google AI says:
“Yes, the windshield from the JFK assassination limousine was brought into the Warren Commission's hearing room and accepted as evidence on March 9, 1964.
The item, designated Commission Exhibit (CE) 351, was carried into the room wrapped in a blanket for examination by the commission members. Secret Service agents, including Roy H. Kellerman, who was in the front seat of the limousine during the shooting, were present to testify.
The windshield was a key piece of physical evidence in the investigation, particularly regarding the path of the bullets. FBI experts determined that an abrasion on the inner surface of the glass was caused by a bullet fragment impacting it from the inside of the car, corroborating the conclusion that all shots came from behind the limousine.
Today, the windshield is preserved as evidence and held by the National Archives. You can view images of the windshield through the National Archives catalog.”
https://www.google.com/search?q=was+the+windshield+from+the+JFK+assassination+limo+displayed+in+the+hearing+room+of+the+Warren+Commission+during+the+hearings&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari (https://www.google.com/search?q=was+the+windshield+from+the+JFK+assassination+limo+displayed+in+the+hearing+room+of+the+Warren+Commission+during+the+hearings&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari)
So, it was brought into the room on March 9, 1964 and was still there in May when Hosty testified. I would assume that many other witnesses saw the windshield in that room.
The small remnant lead slug of Hickey's last shot of his accidental auto burst of his AR15 exited jfk's head at Z313 & cracked the windshield.
Then the slug or most of it must have exited the limo & ended up on the street.
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The small remnant lead slug of Hickey's last shot of his accidental auto burst of his AR15 exited jfk's head at Z313 & cracked the windshield.
Then the slug or most of it must have exited the limo & ended up on the street.
LOL!!!
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It was shown to a few witnesses that made no comment..and there is no basis to assume others had seen it or expected to comment.
Or that it was even in the same room that witnesses testified in from March until May. It was wrapped in a blanket
Hosty testified April 8, '64 (google A-I)- was probably called in March 9th with the other FBI agents to view it. Kellerman was March 9th.
there are certainly not "...many other witnesses"
The date that Hosty specified in his book for this encounter with the windshield was May 5, 1964. Google AI isn’t always correct. Here’s a link to an FBI report confirming the May 5, 1964 date of Hosty’s testimony.
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files%20Original/H%20Disk/Hosty%20James%20P%20Jr%20SA/Item%2021.pdf (http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files%20Original/H%20Disk/Hosty%20James%20P%20Jr%20SA/Item%2021.pdf)
The FBI report also specifies the names of the people in the room for Hosty’s testimony.
The point I am trying to make is that the windshield was and still is available for inspection. I cannot state with any certainty how long the windshield remained in the hearing room. But the fact that Hosty said it was sitting on the desk there on May 5, 1964; and that it had been entered into evidence weeks earlier suggests to me that it was most likely there long enough for many witnesses and others to see. If you think otherwise, that’s fine with me.
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Dulles and Specter discussed the Commission viewing the windshield during the Robert Frazier testimony.
Mr. DULLES - May I just ask a question of you, Mr. Specter, and possibly of the witness.
I assume that the windshield we are now discussing is the windshield that was exhibited to the Commission several weeks ago and which members of the Commission examined?
Mr. SPECTER - It was, Mr. Dulles, and we can establish that, of record, through another Commission Exhibit which is 351, which was the number given to the windshield and we have a reproduction here through the photograph.
Mr. DULLES - You don't have the windshield here today, though?
Mr. SPECTER - No, we do not.
Mr. DULLES - It would be the same windshield that the Commission saw.
Anyway, I'm not sure what the point in this is. Other than the typical quibbling and demands by the conspiracy crowd.
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/frazr2.htm
Thanks Steve. That testimony from Robert Frazier was apparently taken on May 13, 1964. A little over a week after the date Hosty said that he saw the windshield in the WC hearing room. It seems the windshield was no longer there on May 13,1964.
I was asked for my source and responded. Then the quibbling and demands continued as usual.
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The date that Hosty specified in his book for this encounter with the windshield was May 5, 1964. Google AI isn’t always correct. Here’s a link to an FBI report confirming the May 5, 1964 date of Hosty’s testimony.
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files%20Original/H%20Disk/Hosty%20James%20P%20Jr%20SA/Item%2021.pdf (http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files%20Original/H%20Disk/Hosty%20James%20P%20Jr%20SA/Item%2021.pdf)
The FBI report also specifies the names of the people in the room for Hosty’s testimony.
The point I am trying to make is that the windshield was and still is available for inspection. I cannot state with any certainty how long the windshield remained in the hearing room. But the fact that Hosty said it was sitting on the desk there on May 5, 1964; and that it had been entered into evidence weeks earlier suggests to me that it was most likely there long enough for many witnesses and others to see. If you think otherwise, that’s fine with me.
"...most likely there long enough for many witnesses and others to see."
:D "Amos! Get your finger out of that glass and come over here and sit down!"
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Another sad case of denial.
Bullet Holes in the Limousine and Extra Bullets in Dealey Plaza
Lecture by Doug Weldon on JFK Limo Windshield Coverup
I guess St. Louis Dispatch journalist Richard Dudman was seeing things when he reported seeing an obvious hole in the limo's windshield. Other witnesses, including Dallas police officers Stavis Ellis and Bobby Hargis and medical student Evalea Glanges, also reported seeing a hole in the windshield, with some describing it as big enough to put a pencil through.
But, of course, they were all "mistaken." They mistook a crack for a circular hole that was large enough to put a pencil through. Of course. You bet.
You see, a hole in the windshield destroys the lone-gunman shooting scenario.
BTW, there was also a clear round bullet mark in the chrome above the windshield. Photos prove that dent was not there before the assassination.
And then there are the corroborated credible reports of missed shots landing in Dealey Plaza, two of them confirmed by photographic evidence, but WC apologists dismiss all of them as "mistaken."
Extra Bullets and Missed Shots in Dealey Plaza
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WRwhDQ9HMydf5pICsHwgtkoNKw0YSO8T/view
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You see, a hole in the windshield destroys the lone-gunman shooting scenario.
No it doesn't.
A bullet fragment exiting JFK's head could have made a hole through the windshield. As it happens it only had enough force to crack the windshield but not actually break through the windshield.
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The JFKA research community has done some good work, but unfortunately has a tendency to believe select witnesses, and has a near-compulsion to subscribe to "opposite of the WC" explanations of nearly everything.
So "JFK was shot from the front" has become the mantra of some.
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You see, a hole in the windshield destroys the lone-gunman shooting scenario.
No it doesn't.
A bullet fragment exiting JFK's head could have made a hole through the windshield. As it happens it only had enough force to crack the windshield but not actually break through the windshield.
Yes.
And the needed deflection of the slug (or major remnant) inside jfk's head precludes that head-shot coming from Oswald.
But the needed deflection fits ok with a shot from SSA Hickey.
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You see, a hole in the windshield destroys the lone-gunman shooting scenario.
No it doesn't.
A bullet fragment exiting JFK's head could have made a hole through the windshield. As it happens it only had enough force to crack the windshield but not actually break through the windshield.
The above begs the question of why the alleged same ammo/same rifle: (1) Explodes JFK's head upon contact, vs (2) Passing through the bodies of JFK and Connally like a hot knife through butter.