JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate => Topic started by: Charles Collins on December 05, 2025, 06:16:12 PM
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DPD motorcycle cop Jim Chaney was riding escort to the right side of the limo. He was the closest cop to JFK. Jim said that he thought the first shot was a motorcycle backfire. Jim Chaney said in a TV interview on 11/22/63 that he looked over at JFK right after he heard the shot and that JFK was looking towards his left shoulder. Here is a clip showing Chaney starting at Z136 through Z153. It appears to me that Chaney is turning his head to his left to look at JFK:
(https://i.vgy.me/7HRlj1.gif)
Meanwhile, JFK is shown in this clip during frames Z133 through Z154. JFK finishes fixing his hair and turns his head quickly towards his left shoulder. I would guess that he is checking on Jackie after hearing the first shot (which many folks thought to be a motorcycle backfire).
(https://i.vgy.me/hnXgaQ.gif)
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DPD motorcycle cop Jim Chaney was riding escort to the right side of the limo. He was the closest cop to JFK. Jim said that he thought the first shot was a motorcycle backfire. Jim Chaney said in a TV interview on 11/22/63 that he looked over at JFK right after he heard the shot and that JFK was looking towards his left shoulder. Here is a clip showing Chaney starting at Z136 through Z153. It appears to me that Chaney is turning his head to his left to look at JFK:
(https://i.vgy.me/7HRlj1.gif)
Meanwhile, JFK is shown in this clip during frames Z133 through Z154. JFK finishes fixing his hair and turns his head quickly towards his left shoulder. I would guess that he is checking on Jackie after hearing the first shot (which many folks thought to be a motorcycle backfire).
(https://i.vgy.me/hnXgaQ.gif)
Where exactly do you get there were three shots? DPD Chaney is very specific about shot one and then shot two hitting JFK in the head.
(11-22-63 interview with Bill Lord on WFAA television, apparently in the early evening) “I was riding on the right rear fender... We had proceeded west on Elm Street at approximately 15-20 miles an hour. We heard the first shot. I thought it was a motorcycle backfiring and uh I looked back over to my left and also President Kennedy looked back over his left shoulder. Then, the, uh, second shot came, well, then I looked back just in time to see the President struck in the face by the second bullet.
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Where exactly do you get there were three shots? DPD Chaney is very specific about shot one and then shot two hitting JFK in the head.
(11-22-63 interview with Bill Lord on WFAA television, apparently in the early evening) “I was riding on the right rear fender... We had proceeded west on Elm Street at approximately 15-20 miles an hour. We heard the first shot. I thought it was a motorcycle backfiring and uh I looked back over to my left and also President Kennedy looked back over his left shoulder. Then, the, uh, second shot came, well, then I looked back just in time to see the President struck in the face by the second bullet.
Chaney said that there were three shots (along with a plethora of other witnesses).
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DPD motorcycle cop Jim Chaney was riding escort to the right side of the limo. He was the closest cop to JFK. Jim said that he thought the first shot was a motorcycle backfire. Jim Chaney said in a TV interview on 11/22/63 that he looked over at JFK right after he heard the shot and that JFK was looking towards his left shoulder. Here is a clip showing Chaney starting at Z136 through Z153. It appears to me that Chaney is turning his head to his left to look at JFK:
(https://i.vgy.me/7HRlj1.gif)
Unfortunately, I don't see Chaney's alleged head turn.
I see a headless motorcycle policeman riding his motorcycle, and I see Officer Chaney looking straight ahead after he emerges from behind a light pole.
EDIT ALERT FOR COMRADE STORING:
It is interesting, however, to see Secret Service Agent Glen Bennett in the rear seat of the follow-up car leaning far to his right to see if JFK is okay.
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Unfortunately, I don't see Chaney's alleged head turn.
I see a headless motorcycle policeman riding his motorcycle, and I see Officer Chaney looking straight ahead after he emerges from behind a large pole.
If he is looking straight ahead then his right ear flap moved over and is over his right eye.
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If he is looking straight ahead then his right ear flap moved over and is over his right eye.
1) Perhaps I need to ask Jake Maxwell to point out to me what you're seeing.
2) It is interesting to note, however, that Secret Service Agent Glen Bennett in the rear seat of the follow-up car, having heard a "firecracker," is leaning far to his right to see if JFK is okay.
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1) Perhaps I need to ask Jake Maxwell to point out to me what you're seeing.
2) It is interesting to note, however, that Secret Service Agent Glen Bennett in the rear seat of the follow-up car, having heard a "firecracker," is leaning far to his right to see if JFK is okay.
Here is Chaney in an Altgens photo. I have drawn a yellow arrow pointing at his very black right earflap and a blue arrow pointing at the tip of his very black bill. Also, please note the distinctive shape of the helmet. It has a much straighter front than the rear surface which is more curved.
(https://i.vgy.me/VS07BS.jpg)
I have made similar arrows to what I described above for the Z153 frame below. It appears to me that Chaney has his head tilted down slightly. Probably because he is looking downhill towards JFK who is a little bit ahead of Chaney.
(https://i.vgy.me/SXD6Dh.jpg)
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JFK is fixing his hair koz he got hit on the back & side of the head by lead splatter from Oswald's ricochet offa the mast arm at about pseudo Z105.
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Chaney said that there were three shots (along with a plethora of other witnesses).
DPD Jim Chaney, ABC's Bill Lord 11/22/63 (youtube.com)
Can you point out where he mentions a third shot.
(11-22-63 interview with Bill Lord on WFAA television, apparently in the early evening) “I was riding on the right rear fender... We had proceeded west on Elm Street at approximately 15-20 miles an hour. We heard the first shot. I thought it was a motorcycle backfiring and uh I looked back over to my left and also President Kennedy looked back over his left shoulder. Then, the, uh, second shot came, well, then I looked back just in time to see the President struck in the face by the second bullet.
A plethora of Ear witnesses not Eye witnesses.
Not a valid youtube URL[/url]
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Here is Chaney in an Altgens photo. I have drawn a yellow arrow pointing at his very black right earflap and a blue arrow pointing at the tip of his very black bill. Also, please note the distinctive shape of the helmet. It has a much straighter front than the rear surface which is more curved.
(https://i.vgy.me/VS07BS.jpg)
I have made similar arrows to what I described above for the Z153 frame below. It appears to me that Chaney has his head tilted down slightly. Probably because he is looking downhill towards JFK who is a little bit ahead of Chaney.
(https://i.vgy.me/SXD6Dh.jpg)
Okay, I see it, now.
Nice work!
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DPD motorcycle cop Jim Chaney was riding escort to the right side of the limo. He was the closest cop to JFK. Jim said that he thought the first shot was a motorcycle backfire. Jim Chaney said in a TV interview on 11/22/63 that he looked over at JFK right after he heard the shot and that JFK was looking towards his left shoulder. Here is a clip showing Chaney starting at Z136 through Z153. It appears to me that Chaney is turning his head to his left to look at JFK:
(https://i.vgy.me/7HRlj1.gif)
Meanwhile, JFK is shown in this clip during frames Z133 through Z154. JFK finishes fixing his hair and turns his head quickly towards his left shoulder. I would guess that he is checking on Jackie after hearing the first shot (which many folks thought to be a motorcycle backfire).
(https://i.vgy.me/hnXgaQ.gif)
This Officer Chaney portion of the Zapruder Film falls within the splicing that was done to this alleged assassination "film". There is also a Large Gap within the film along with this ham-handed slicing and dicing. The Current Zapruder Film is unreliable.
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The current Zapruder film is unreliable.
Comrade Storing,
Did the evil, evil Deep State bad guys alter all of the other photos and films that were taken of the motorcade as it was coming down Elm Street so said photos and films would support the "altered" Zapruder film?
-- Tom
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Comrade Storing,
Did the evil, evil Deep State bad guys alter all of the other photos and films that were taken of the motorcade as it was coming down Elm Street so said photos and films would support the "altered" Zapruder film?
-- Tom
Only the "other photos and films" which included myself.
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Only the "other photos and films" which included myself.
Comrade Storing,
OMG . . . the evil, evil Deep State bad guys edited you out of some JFKA photos and films?
-- Tom
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DPD Jim Chaney, ABC's Bill Lord 11/22/63 (youtube.com)
Can you point out where he mentions a third shot.
(11-22-63 interview with Bill Lord on WFAA television, apparently in the early evening) “I was riding on the right rear fender... We had proceeded west on Elm Street at approximately 15-20 miles an hour. We heard the first shot. I thought it was a motorcycle backfiring and uh I looked back over to my left and also President Kennedy looked back over his left shoulder. Then, the, uh, second shot came, well, then I looked back just in time to see the President struck in the face by the second bullet.
A plethora of Ear witnesses not Eye witnesses.
Not a valid youtube URL[/url]
This is a snip from the description provided by the YouTube poster HelmerReenberg:
Chaney said when he heard the first shot he remembered that it sounded like a motorcycle backfiring and Chaney immediately looked to his left and saw President Kennedy had "looked back over his left shoulder" within the limousine. In the famous Ike Altgens photo taken concurrent with Zapruder film frame 255, Chaney is seen very close to the limousine facing President Kennedy. Chaney further stated that "the second shot hit him in the face," and that a third shot was fired that Chaney did not see hit the president but he did see Governor John B. Connally's shirt erupt in blood.[/u] Chaney stated that the shots he remembered hearing seemed to come from "back over my right shoulder." During the assassination his police uniform was spattered with blood and President Kennedy's head matter.
I don’t see Chaney saying that (bolded and underlined part) in this video though. I would assume he must have made that statement at another time and place. That would be a good question to present to Helmer.
As far as JFK being hit in the face, he wasn’t. JFK was hit in the back of the neck and it exited his throat. Then another shot hit JFK in the back of the head and exited on the upper right side of his head. His face was never hit. If you view JFK in the Altgens photo, he appears to have his hands up around his face at about the level of his mouth. We can also see Chaney looking directly at JFK in the Altgens photo. I can imagine Chaney seeing JFK obviously hit and his hands up near his face at that point and assuming that JFK was hit in the face. Just my two cents worth….
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This is a snip from the description provided by the YouTube poster HelmerReenberg:
Chaney said when he heard the first shot he remembered that it sounded like a motorcycle backfiring and Chaney immediately looked to his left and saw President Kennedy had "looked back over his left shoulder" within the limousine. In the famous Ike Altgens photo taken concurrent with Zapruder film frame 255, Chaney is seen very close to the limousine facing President Kennedy. Chaney further stated that "the second shot hit him in the face," and that a third shot was fired that Chaney did not see hit the president but he did see Governor John B. Connally's shirt erupt in blood.[/u] Chaney stated that the shots he remembered hearing seemed to come from "back over my right shoulder." During the assassination his police uniform was spattered with blood and President Kennedy's head matter.
I don’t see Chaney saying that (bolded and underlined part) in this video though. I would assume he must have made that statement at another time and place. That would be a good question to present to Helmer.
As far as JFK being hit in the face, he wasn’t. JFK was hit in the back of the neck and it exited his throat. Then another shot hit JFK in the back of the head and exited on the upper right side of his head. His face was never hit. If you view JFK in the Altgens photo, he appears to have his hands up around his face at about the level of his mouth. We can also see Chaney looking directly at JFK in the Altgens photo. I can imagine Chaney seeing JFK obviously hit and his hands up near his face at that point and assuming that JFK was hit in the face. Just my two cents worth….
When questioned by Josiah Thompson for his blockbuster, "Six Seconds In Dallas", Sitzman was specific. She said she saw JFK hit, "between the eye and the ear". Bill Newman said the same thing. "Between the eye and the ear" would be extremely close to the "Face" as Officer Chaney said. The key here being that Sitzman, Newman, and Officer Chaney were ALL on the (R) side of JFK, and ALL saying almost exactly the same thing. They saw a bullet strike in the Eye/Ear/Face area.
I too like the You Tube pieces posted by Reenberg. The JFK Assassination images that he posts are seldom posted elsewhere. He is a very unique/good "image" source
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This is a snip from the description provided by the YouTube poster HelmerReenberg:
Chaney said when he heard the first shot he remembered that it sounded like a motorcycle backfiring and Chaney immediately looked to his left and saw President Kennedy had "looked back over his left shoulder" within the limousine. In the famous Ike Altgens photo taken concurrent with Zapruder film frame 255, Chaney is seen very close to the limousine facing President Kennedy. Chaney further stated that "the second shot hit him in the face," and that a third shot was fired that Chaney did not see hit the president but he did see Governor John B. Connally's shirt erupt in blood.[/u] Chaney stated that the shots he remembered hearing seemed to come from "back over my right shoulder." During the assassination his police uniform was spattered with blood and President Kennedy's head matter.
I don’t see Chaney saying that (bolded and underlined part) in this video though. I would assume he must have made that statement at another time and place. That would be a good question to present to Helmer.
As far as JFK being hit in the face, he wasn’t. JFK was hit in the back of the neck and it exited his throat. Then another shot hit JFK in the back of the head and exited on the upper right side of his head. His face was never hit. If you view JFK in the Altgens photo, he appears to have his hands up around his face at about the level of his mouth. We can also see Chaney looking directly at JFK in the Altgens photo. I can imagine Chaney seeing JFK obviously hit and his hands up near his face at that point and assuming that JFK was hit in the face. Just my two cents worth….
Charles: Chaney was interviewed by the FBI in 1975. He said he heard three "noises", all evenly spaced, and all coming from behind him.
It's puzzling that he said all of the shots sounded like they came from behind him yet said JFK was "hit in the face"?
Here: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=9965#relPageId=10&search=Chaney
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Charles: Chaney was interviewed by the FBI in 1975. He said he heard three "noises", all evenly spaced, and all coming from behind him.
It's puzzling that he said all of the shots sounded like came from behind him yet he said JFK was "hit in the face".
Here: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=9965#relPageId=10&search=Chaney
For the record, Chaney is quoted above as saying, "FAIRLY evenly spaced". Chaney was a DPD Motorcycle Officer and therefore wearing a Motorcycle Helmet. This helmet would restrict his hearing.
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When questioned by Josiah Thompson for his blockbuster, "Six Seconds In Dallas", Sitzman was specific. She said she saw JFK hit, "between the eye and the ear". Bill Newman said the same thing. "Between the eye and the ear" would be extremely close to the "Face" as Officer Chaney said. The key here being that Sitzman, Newman, and Officer Chaney were ALL on the (R) side of JFK, and ALL saying almost exactly the same thing. They saw a bullet strike in the Eye/Ear/Face area.
I too like the You Tube pieces posted by Reenberg. The JFK Assassination images that he posts are seldom posted elsewhere. He is a very unique/good "image" source
Three shots have not nor will ever explain the assassination. After 62 of debate. A three shot scenario never aligns with the known evidence. That in itself should tell you it is wrong.
The information firsthand coming from the horse's mouth immediately after the assassination is preferred to the opinion of a newscaster years later. DPD Chaney’s description of JFK’s reaction to the shots is exactly like all the other witnesses. First shot and he slumps and leans to the left. Second Shot was the head shot. The face reference is immaterial. It would be hard in that split second to determine the exact location of the wound.
This is a prime example of “medias influence” as stated by the WC, The HSCA, and the HSCA Sound Analysis.
Bill Lord at the end of the interview, made 15 minutes after the assassination, corrects Chaney’s interview and announces DPD Chaney heard three shots. DPD Chaney clearly identified there were only two shots.
Jay Watson did the same thing to Bill Newman. Bill Newman repeatedly told him he only heard two shots.
Medias Influence was not a gradual thing but an immediate and abrupt disruption based on the News Flash of Merriman Smith and read by Walter Cronkite 3 minutes later. Jay Watson was holding the news flash in his hand and Gayle Newman can be seen reading it.
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Three shots have not nor will ever explain the assassination. After 62 of debate. A three shot scenario never aligns with the known evidence. That in itself should tell you it is wrong.
The information firsthand coming from the horse's mouth immediately after the assassination is preferred to the opinion of a newscaster years later. DPD Chaney’s description of JFK’s reaction to the shots is exactly like all the other witnesses. First shot and he slumps and leans to the left. Second Shot was the head shot. The face reference is immaterial. It would be hard in that split second to determine the exact location of the wound.
This is a prime example of “medias influence” as stated by the WC, The HSCA, and the HSCA Sound Analysis.
Bill Lord at the end of the interview, made 15 minutes after the assassination, corrects Chaney’s interview and announces DPD Chaney heard three shots. DPD Chaney clearly identified there were only two shots.
Jay Watson did the same thing to Bill Newman. Bill Newman repeatedly told him he only heard two shots.
Medias Influence was not a gradual thing but an immediate and abrupt disruption based on the News Flash of Merriman Smith and read by Walter Cronkite 3 minutes later. Jay Watson was holding the news flash in his hand and Gayle Newman can be seen reading it.
First shot and he slumps and leans to the left.
That is not what Chaney said. He said JFK appeared to be looking over his left shoulder. The only place we see anything of that nature is in the clip provided in the first post in this thread. It is from about the mid Z40s to mid Z150s.
I cannot believe that Chaney would describe JFK as looking over his left shoulder after he was shot around Z224. It should be obvious to anyone who sees the Zapruder film that at that point JFK was reacting to being shot. Chaney wouldn’t have left that part out.
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Charles: Chaney was interviewed by the FBI in 1975. He said he heard three "noises", all evenly spaced, and all coming from behind him.
It's puzzling that he said all of the shots sounded like they came from behind him yet said JFK was "hit in the face"?
Here: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=9965#relPageId=10&search=Chaney
Thanks Steve, I have been searching for something like that without any luck. That’s very helpful. I agree about the puzzling part. I already said what I think could have happened.
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First shot and he slumps and leans to the left.
That is not what Chaney said. He said JFK appeared to be looking over his left shoulder. The only place we see anything of that nature is in the clip provided in the first post in this thread. It is from about the mid Z40s to mid Z150s.
I cannot believe that Chaney would describe JFK as looking over his left shoulder after he was shot around Z224. It should be obvious to anyone who sees the Zapruder film that at that point JFK was reacting to being shot. Chaney wouldn’t have left that part out.
There is a 4K version of the Zapruder Film that is clear enough to clearly make out Stella Jacobs face when she turns to the right. It helps with viewing JFK’s and others movements in the Zapruder film.
So, DPD Chaney’s shooting sequence is:
DPD Chaney’s shot one is a miss.
DPD Chaney’s shot two is the headshot.
No mention of the shot through the throat because he never heard the shot or seen JFK react, even though he is clearly seen staring right at him in the Altgen's photo?
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There is a 4K version of the Zapruder Film that is clear enough to clearly make out Stella Jacobs face when she turns to the right. It helps with viewing JFK’s and others movements in the Zapruder film.
So, DPD Chaney’s shooting sequence is:
DPD Chaney’s shot one is a miss.
DPD Chaney’s shot two is the headshot.
No mention of the shot through the throat because he never heard the shot or seen JFK react, even though he is clearly seen staring right at him in the Altgen's photo?
Here is what Chaney reportedly told the FBI in 1975:
(https://i.vgy.me/ygHlNQ.png)
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When questioned by Josiah Thompson for his blockbuster, "Six Seconds in Dallas", Sitzman was specific. She said she saw JFK hit, "between the eye and the ear". Bill Newman said the same thing. "Between the eye and the ear" would be extremely close to the "Face" as Officer Chaney said. The key here being that Sitzman, Newman, and Officer Chaney were all on the (R) side of JFK, and all saying almost exactly the same thing. They saw a bullet strike in the Eye/Ear/Face area.
Comrade Storing.
Bullets travel pretty darn fast.
They create entrance wounds as well as, oftentimes, exit wounds.
JFK's head sustained both.
Did Sitzman, Newman and Chaney have superhuman high-speed vision which enabled them to see the bullet actually penetrate JFK's skull where they believed it did?
-- Tom
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You guys are unable to figure the Chaney issue out due to 1 Thing. You continue to swear by the Current Zapruder Film. The Current Z Film has and always will conflict with Eyewitness Accounts. It also conflicts with the worldwide Dan Rather broadcasts describing what he saw on the Zapruder Film he viewed the weekend following the assassination. The Z film has a "Gap" in it that would make Richard Nixon/Rose Mary Woods proud. The Current Zapruder Film has also been spliced and diced. Reliance on the Current Zapruder Film will always result in conflict and confusion. It is tainted.
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The Current Z Film has and always will conflict with Eyewitness Accounts. It also conflicts with the worldwide Dan Rather broadcasts describing what he saw on the Zapruder Film he viewed the weekend following the assassination.
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The poor guy was shown the film only once and then had to run several blocks to the studio and try to recall, without notes, what he'd seen.
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Here is what Chaney reportedly told the FBI in 1975:
(https://i.vgy.me/ygHlNQ.png)
DPD Chaney's first four statements were that there were only two shots. It takes 12 more years for him to add the additional shot. He was wrong four different times in 1963 but right in 1975?
James Chaney . (11-22-63 interview with KLIF radio, reportedly around 12:45 PM--but not broadcast at that time--"On the first shot we thought it was a motorcycle backfire. I looked to my left and so did President Kennedy, looking back over his left shoulder, and when the second shot struck him in the face then we knew that someone was shooting at the President." (When asked what happened after the President was hit) "He slumped forward in the car. He fell forward into the seat there." (When asked Mrs. Kennedy's reaction) "I don't know. When I seen that he was hit well I went on up ahead to tell Chief Curry's group there that he had been hit there, and we took him on to the hospital from there." (When then asked if he saw where the bullet had come from) "No, all I knew is it come over my right shoulder."
An example of Medias Influence
(Note: some sources have it that Chaney mentioned “a third shot that was fired that (he) did not see hit the President” and that he did see “Governor Connally’s shirt erupt in blood..” in one of his first interviews, but I can not find a primary source for these quotes.)
(Article in the 12-2-63 issue of Newsweek, presumed to be based on an 11-22-63 interview of Chaney at Parkland Hospital by motorcade witness Charles Roberts) (On the first shot) "'I thought it was a backfire,' said Dallas Patrolman James M. Chaney, who was riding a motorcycle 6 feet from the right rear fender of the President's car." The President jerked his head around...Then (came) the second shot and his head exploded in blood..."
(11-22-63 interview with Bill Lord on WFAA television, apparently in the early evening) “I was riding on the right rear fender... We had proceeded west on Elm Street at approximately 15-20 miles an hour. We heard the first shot. I thought it was a motorcycle backfiring and uh I looked back over to my left and also President Kennedy looked back over his left shoulder. Then, the, uh, second shot came, well, then I looked back just in time to see the President struck in the face by the second bullet. He slumped forward into Mrs. Kennedy’s lap, and uh, it was apparent to me that we were being fired upon. I went ahead of the President’s car to inform Chief Curry that the President had been hit. And then he instructed us over the air to take him to Parkland Hospital and he had Parkland Hospital stand by. I went on up ahead of the, to notify the officers that were leading the escort that he had been hit and we're gonna have to move out." (When asked if he saw the person who fired on the President) "No sir, it was back over my right shoulder.” (At the end of the interview, Bill Lord, now back in the studio, adds "This patrolman was so close to the president that following the three shots his uniform was spattered with blood."
(11-23-63 article in the Houston Post) "Dallas Police Motorcycle Officer J. M. Chaney told a Houston Post reporter that he was riding about six feet from the right rear fender of the President's car. He heard two shots that seemed to come over his right shoulder, he said. He said the President turned his face around over his left shoulder to look back after the first shot and was hit by the second shot in the left side of the head. Chaney said he did not know if the first shot hit anybody or not."
Another great example of “Medias Influence”. DPD Chaney never said this at all; Chris Davidson stated it for DPD Chaney.
(11-24-63 article in the Houston Chronicle, posted online by Chris Davidson) "A motorcycle policeman just six feet from President Kennedy when he was hit said the assassin's first shot missed entirely. The second of the three shots felled Kennedy, said patrolman James M. Chaney. He was six feet to the right and front of the President's car, moving about 15 miles an hour while rounding a curve. The shot, said Chaney, came from the sixth floor of a warehouse building about 50 feet or less behind the President's car. From the sixth floor to the President, the bullet traveled about 110 feet, Chaney estimated. Chaney was an infantryman in Europe during World War II, with experience in sharpshooting. 'When the first shot was fired, I thought it was a backfire,' Chaney said. Everyone looked around. The President was looking back over his left shoulder. A second or two after the first shot, the second shot hit him. 'It was like you hit him in the face with a tomato. Blood went all over the car.
DPD Chaney is still referencing the second shot was the headshot. Newsman Chris Davidson completely misses the point.
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The poor guy was shown the film only once and then had to run several blocks to the studio and try to recall, without notes, what he'd seen.
You do realize that Rather would eventually hold the same CBS News Anchor position as Walter Cronkite? Yet, here you are describing Rather as being a halfwit.
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You do realize that Rather would eventually hold the same CBS News Anchor position as Walter Cronkite? Yet, here you are describing Rather as being a halfwit.
Comrade Storing,
Not at all.
Dan Rather did a commendable job under the circumstances, i.e., not being allowed to see the clip more than once, having to run several blocks to the studio immediately afterwards, and telling the nation, without notes, what he thought he remembered seeing in it.
Give him a break.
He was spot-on on the most important thing -- JFK was shot.
-- Tom
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DPD Chaney's first four statements were that there were only two shots. It takes 12 more years for him to add the additional shot. He was wrong four different times in 1963 but right in 1975?
James Chaney . (11-22-63 interview with KLIF radio, reportedly around 12:45 PM--but not broadcast at that time--"On the first shot we thought it was a motorcycle backfire. I looked to my left and so did President Kennedy, looking back over his left shoulder, and when the second shot struck him in the face then we knew that someone was shooting at the President." (When asked what happened after the President was hit) "He slumped forward in the car. He fell forward into the seat there." (When asked Mrs. Kennedy's reaction) "I don't know. When I seen that he was hit well I went on up ahead to tell Chief Curry's group there that he had been hit there, and we took him on to the hospital from there." (When then asked if he saw where the bullet had come from) "No, all I knew is it come over my right shoulder."
An example of Medias Influence
(Note: some sources have it that Chaney mentioned “a third shot that was fired that (he) did not see hit the President” and that he did see “Governor Connally’s shirt erupt in blood..” in one of his first interviews, but I can not find a primary source for these quotes.)
(Article in the 12-2-63 issue of Newsweek, presumed to be based on an 11-22-63 interview of Chaney at Parkland Hospital by motorcade witness Charles Roberts) (On the first shot) "'I thought it was a backfire,' said Dallas Patrolman James M. Chaney, who was riding a motorcycle 6 feet from the right rear fender of the President's car." The President jerked his head around...Then (came) the second shot and his head exploded in blood..."
(11-22-63 interview with Bill Lord on WFAA television, apparently in the early evening) “I was riding on the right rear fender... We had proceeded west on Elm Street at approximately 15-20 miles an hour. We heard the first shot. I thought it was a motorcycle backfiring and uh I looked back over to my left and also President Kennedy looked back over his left shoulder. Then, the, uh, second shot came, well, then I looked back just in time to see the President struck in the face by the second bullet. He slumped forward into Mrs. Kennedy’s lap, and uh, it was apparent to me that we were being fired upon. I went ahead of the President’s car to inform Chief Curry that the President had been hit. And then he instructed us over the air to take him to Parkland Hospital and he had Parkland Hospital stand by. I went on up ahead of the, to notify the officers that were leading the escort that he had been hit and we're gonna have to move out." (When asked if he saw the person who fired on the President) "No sir, it was back over my right shoulder.” (At the end of the interview, Bill Lord, now back in the studio, adds "This patrolman was so close to the president that following the three shots his uniform was spattered with blood."
(11-23-63 article in the Houston Post) "Dallas Police Motorcycle Officer J. M. Chaney told a Houston Post reporter that he was riding about six feet from the right rear fender of the President's car. He heard two shots that seemed to come over his right shoulder, he said. He said the President turned his face around over his left shoulder to look back after the first shot and was hit by the second shot in the left side of the head. Chaney said he did not know if the first shot hit anybody or not."
Another great example of “Medias Influence”. DPD Chaney never said this at all; Chris Davidson stated it for DPD Chaney.
(11-24-63 article in the Houston Chronicle, posted online by Chris Davidson) "A motorcycle policeman just six feet from President Kennedy when he was hit said the assassin's first shot missed entirely. The second of the three shots felled Kennedy, said patrolman James M. Chaney. He was six feet to the right and front of the President's car, moving about 15 miles an hour while rounding a curve. The shot, said Chaney, came from the sixth floor of a warehouse building about 50 feet or less behind the President's car. From the sixth floor to the President, the bullet traveled about 110 feet, Chaney estimated. Chaney was an infantryman in Europe during World War II, with experience in sharpshooting. 'When the first shot was fired, I thought it was a backfire,' Chaney said. Everyone looked around. The President was looking back over his left shoulder. A second or two after the first shot, the second shot hit him. 'It was like you hit him in the face with a tomato. Blood went all over the car.
DPD Chaney is still referencing the second shot was the headshot. Newsman Chris Davidson completely misses the point.
In every case that you cited above, Chaney says JFK looked over his left shoulder after the first noise. In none of those cases does he indicate that JFK was hit by the first noise. We can clearly see JFK turn his head to look over his left shoulder around the mid Z140s to the mid Z150s in the Zapruder film. No where else in the Zapruder film does JFK turn to look over his left shoulder.
In the television interview Chaney’s words are (per your post):
Then, the, uh, second shot came, well, then I looked back just in time to see the President struck in the face by the second bullet.
As Chaney later clarified per the FBI report, he looked back and saw JFK struck in the head after “the, uh, second shot came.” And that is precisely how his words in the television interview of 11/22/63 should be interpreted (according to proper grammar).
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DPD motorcycle cop Jim Chaney was riding escort to the right side of the limo. He was the closest cop to JFK. Jim said that he thought the first shot was a motorcycle backfire. Jim Chaney said in a TV interview on 11/22/63 that he looked over at JFK right after he heard the shot and that JFK was looking towards his left shoulder. Here is a clip showing Chaney starting at Z136 through Z153. It appears to me that Chaney is turning his head to his left to look at JFK:
(https://i.vgy.me/7HRlj1.gif)
Meanwhile, JFK is shown in this clip during frames Z133 through Z154. JFK finishes fixing his hair and turns his head quickly towards his left shoulder. I would guess that he is checking on Jackie after hearing the first shot (which many folks thought to be a motorcycle backfire).
(https://i.vgy.me/hnXgaQ.gif)
What’s interesting in this range of Z140-Z150, is how SS agent Hickey leaned to his left ( and was looking down at the road and or left side of the JFK limo?). It seems to be in sync with JFKs head turn to left.
But if it’s a loud shot from TSBD from Z140-Z150, why are none of the other SS agents reacting similarly?
Is there some particular aspect of human reactions to loud noises that explains this inconsistency?
Like maybe there were already some motorcycle backfires that had occurred during the limo trek up Houston st, and during the turn on Elm st.that desensitized the SS agents such that they did not recognize the 1st loud Z140 rifle shot from TSBD.
A gouge was found on the manhole cover on the east side of Elm street and some uprooted grass beside it. And there is a photo of a guy sticking his hand down to check that piece of grass. ( Not sure if he found anything or not).
Where the JFK limo is at At Z140, the manhole cover is farther down elm st some distance ahead of the JFK limo.
So coincidentally, Virgie Rachley is a witness who described seeming a ricochet ahead of the JFK limo which she thought was possibly the 1st shot.
Combine this with the idea that the 1st shot from TSBD was an accidental firing of the rifle by the shooter AS he leaned over from his seated position and had just rested his rifle on the stacked boxes. This would explain missing the limo.
So this possible scenario would make sense as a 1st shot accidental discharge occurring at Z140 because it’s plausible that the shooter would have tried to make a closer shot before the tree foliage became a temporary LOS obstacle.
It’s more plausible an explanation for the shooter missing the entire limo than that his scope was badly misaligned. In fact, since the scope on this MC rifle was mounted to the left side of the barrel, then even if the scope reticle had lost its zero or was drifting, its unlikely that the barrel would have been pointed so far left that the bullet would have missed the entire limo. Especially since JFK was seated on the right side of the limo.
So the next question is,why if Rosemary Willis heard a Z140 did it take her until Z190 to start reacting by slowing her running and finally stopping about Z200? That would be approx 60 frames/18.5 frames/sec) = approx 3 secs after hearing a loud shot at Z 140.
This again returns to the ? Of how people react to loud noises and if some had become desensitized to the motorcycle backfires while others had not. I’m sure there are research papers on the subject.
The other problem of Betzner not hearing a shot until after he took his camera shot at Z186? Possibly there is another human brain thing about some people so fixated on a particular task as to exclude or minimize their hearing/ seeing while they are engaged in accomplishing their task.
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Comrade Storing,
Not at all.
Dan Rather did a commendable job under the circumstances, i.e., not being allowed to see the clip more than once, having to run several blocks to the studio immediately afterwards, and telling the nation, without notes, what he thought he remembered seeing in it.
Give him a break.
He was spot-on on the most important thing -- JFK was shot.
-- Tom
Per you, Rather did a "commendable job" because he got it right that, "JFK was shot"? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. This explains why you only repeat "talking points". It's the best that you can do. You definitely could have been Buell Frazier's best bud.
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In every case that you cited above, Chaney says JFK looked over his left shoulder after the first noise. In none of those cases does he indicate that JFK was hit by the first noise. We can clearly see JFK turn his head to look over his left shoulder around the mid Z140s to the mid Z150s in the Zapruder film. No where else in the Zapruder film does JFK turn to look over his left shoulder.
In the television interview Chaney’s words are (per your post):
Then, the, uh, second shot came, well, then I looked back just in time to see the President struck in the face by the second bullet.
As Chaney later clarified per the FBI report, he looked back and saw JFK struck in the head after “the, uh, second shot came.” And that is precisely how his words in the television interview of 11/22/63 should be interpreted (according to proper grammar).
Charles Collins: “In none of those cases does he indicate that JFK was hit by the first noise.”
Interesting analysis of DPD Chaney. According to this analysis, DPD Chaney is unaware JFK or JBC were ever struck by the first bullet. Despite the fact DPD Chaney is seen staring at them in the Altgen's photo. DPD Chaney is only aware that JFK is struck by what he referred to as "the second bullet" which is the headshot.
DPD Bobby Hargis, like DPD Chaney is also a definite two-shot witness but was stationed on the left side of the Limo next to Jackie.
Based on DPD Hargis referring to JFK as bent forward followed by the headshot instead of the DPD Chaney’s “turning his head to the left” followed by the headshot, did DPD Hargis also not know what was going on?
DPD Hargis states JFK was "bent forward" with no indication of being hit by the first shot. JBC likewise is unaware and turning around. Like Chaney DPD Hargis states the second shot is the headshot. Hargis indicates they later learned that JFK was hit by the first shot.
Bobby Hargis: {Courtesy of Pat Speer's website}
“11-22-63 article in the Dallas Times-Herald. Note: in 1995 Hargis would tell researchers Ian Griggs and Mark Oakes that he didn't write this article and that it must have been based on a conversation he'd had with a reporter in a hallway) “About halfway down between Houston and the underpass I heard the first shot. It sounded like a real loud firecracker. When I heard the sound, the first thing I thought about was a gunshot. I looked around and about then Governor Connally turned around and looked at the President with a real surprised look on his face…The President bent over to hear what the Governor had to say. When he raised back up was when the President got shot…I felt blood hit me in the face and the Presidential car stopped almost immediately after that…I racked (parked) my motorcycle and jumped off.”
This is almost certainly the basis for the 11-22 article) "I felt blood hit me in the face, and the presidential car stopped almost immediately after that and stayed stopped about half a second, then took off at a high rate of speed. I racked my cycle and jumped off. I ran to the north side of Elm Street to see if I could find where the bullets came from. I don't think the President got hit with the first shot, but I don't know for sure. When I heard the first shot, it looked like he bent over. I feel that the Governor was shot first. I could be wrong. Right after the first shot, I was trying to look and see if the President got shot. When I saw the look on Connally's face, I knew somebody was shooting at the car...The fatal bullet struck the President in the right side of the head.
(11-24-63 article in the New York Sunday News) "We turned left onto Elm St. off Houston, about a half block from where it happened. I was right alongside the rear fender on the left side of the President's car, near Mrs. Kennedy. When I heard the first explosion, I knew it was a shot. I thought that Gov. Connally had been hit when I saw him turn toward the President with a real surprised look. The President then looked like he was bent over or that he was leaning toward the Governor, talking to him. As the President straightened back up, Mrs. Kennedy turned toward him, and that was when he got hit in the side of his head, spinning it around. I was splattered with blood. Then I felt something hit me. It could have been concrete or something, but I thought at first I might have been hit. Then I saw the limousine stop, and I parked my motorcycle at the side of the road, got off and drew my gun.
(4-3-64 testimony before the Warren Commission, 6H293-296): “I was next to Mrs. Kennedy when I heard the first shot, and at that time the President bent over, and Governor Connally turned around. He was sitting directly in front of him, and (had) a real shocked and surprised expression on his face…I thought Governor Connally had been shot first, but it looked like the President was bending over to hear what he had to say, and I thought to myself then that Governor Connally, the Governor had been hit, and then as the President raised back up like that the shot that killed him hit him.” (When asked about the blood) "when President Kennedy straightened back up in the car the bullet hit him in the head, the one that killed him and it seemed like his head exploded,
10-26-77, notes transcribed 11-16-77, JFK document #003300, RIF 180-10107-10243) ""When they turned left on Elm from Houston, he was watching the President's car. Shortly afterwards, he heard a shot. He saw President Kennedy slump forward and Governor Connally turn. He felt at the time that Connally might have been hit and the President was leaning forward to find out what happened. He said the first shot sounded to him like a firecracker. The second shot hit JFK in the head.
(Interview by HSCA investigator Jack Moriarty dated 8-8-78, notes transcribed 8-23-78, JFK document #014362, RIF 180-10113-10272) "When the first report sounded, he was "about one-third of the way down Elm", having made the last turn from Houston. It sounded like a firecracker, but he was unable to tell where it came from. He looked to his right and saw Connally turning and the President appeared to be leaning forward as if he was trying to hear what the Governor was saying. He had seen JFK lean forward in like manner during the motorcade as he and Connally had been conversing. This time, though, the President had an expression of pain on his face. When the second shot was fired - no doubt gunfire this time as it hit the President's head -
Interview by HSCA investigator Jack Moriarty, 12-29-78, JFK document # 014224, RIF 180-10109-10354). "Reached Mr. Hargis at his new residence... today and developed the following additional information. At the sound of the first shot, he was "in position" - some five to six feet from the left corner of the rear bumper of John F. Kennedy limousine. At the sound of the second shot, he was a bit closer (the limousine slowed and nearly stopped) - perhaps four feet. By the third shot (although he doesn't recall the actual, but saw John F. Kennedy's head explode), he was "almost even with Jackie - no more than two or three feet, if that."
(Interview with NBC broadcast on the 1988 program That Day In November) "It sounded like a firecracker to me and I thought 'Oh Lord, let it be a firecracker. And it looked like the President was bending over, forward. And then when he raised back up is when that second shot hit him in the head." (5-14-92 video-taped interview with Mark Oakes) "I was trying to catch up to my assigned station when the first shot rang out...I saw Connally turn around...I thought he had been shot. It sounded like a firecracker but then when I saw Connally's face I thought he'd been shot. Which he had...The second shot made his head like a ripe tomato when you shoot it with a gun on the ground. It explodes. That's how his head did. It exploded. Now you got brain matter, blood, and everything else on you" (6-26-95 video-taped interview with Mark Oakes and Ian Griggs) (On the explosion of Kennedy's head) "It didn't only hit me...It showered everything in the car behind it...You put a ripe tomato, and you shoot it with a gun and it splatters. That's what it was...But the first shot sounded like a firecracker...I've been fired at like five times and every one of them sounded like a firecracker--to me...
(Later, after voicing his support for the single-bullet theory) "There was not three shots; there was only two. I only heard two. One got him through the back and one got him through the head. That's it...The facts was there was two shots--one that hit him in the back and one that hit him in the head. And the one that hit him in the head just busted his head wide open. That's it."
(November 1998 interview with Texas Monthly) “About ten seconds after we made that left-hand turn, that first shot rang out…I remember Kennedy leaned forward to listen to what he had to say. And then when he raised back up, that second shot hit him in the head. But we figured out that he had got shot—that first bullet had gone through the upper part of his back, well through the seat, and hit Connally’s wrist and glanced off and went into his thigh.”
(Interview within an 11-22-03 WBAP radio program found on Youtube) "Yeah I looked toward the President and I thought maybe John Connally was hit because he turned around to look at the President. He had a real surprised look on his face. Kennedy was bending over like he was listening to what Connally had to say. When he raised back up, that second shot hit him in the head. That's what killed him, There was only two shots fired."
(7-1-03 interview with Mike Brownlow available on youtube as part of the compilation Shattered Friday) "The first thing that I noticed when we turned the corner and headed to the triple underpass was a popping sound like a firecracker...Governor Connally had turned around and I thought that Governor Connally had been shot because he had such a pained expression on his face. About 5 seconds later the motorcade slowed down and the President lifted back up and the bullet hit him in the head.
(11-22-03 article in the Dallas Morning News) “Hargis differs with the Warren Commission and most eyewitnesses, insisting that only two shots were fired. With the first, “a thousand million things went through my mind,” he says. After the last, “there was a plume of blood and brains and plasma. It was just like a fog, and I ran right through it.”
Unlike DPD Chaney, who many years later changes what he had originally stated to a three-shot narrative, DPD Hargis never waivers, but instead reaffirms there were only two shots.
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Charles Collins: “In none of those cases does he indicate that JFK was hit by the first noise.”
Interesting analysis of DPD Chaney. According to this analysis, DPD Chaney is unaware JFK or JBC were ever struck by the first bullet. Despite the fact DPD Chaney is seen staring at them in the Altgen's photo. DPD Chaney is only aware that JFK is struck by what he referred to as "the second bullet" which is the headshot.
DPD Bobby Hargis, like DPD Chaney is also a definite two-shot witness but was stationed on the left side of the Limo next to Jackie.
Based on DPD Hargis referring to JFK as bent forward followed by the headshot instead of the DPD Chaney’s “turning his head to the left” followed by the headshot, did DPD Hargis also not know what was going on?
DPD Hargis states JFK was "bent forward" with no indication of being hit by the first shot. JBC likewise is unaware and turning around. Like Chaney DPD Hargis states the second shot is the headshot. Hargis indicates they later learned that JFK was hit by the first shot.
Bobby Hargis: {Courtesy of Pat Speer's website}
“11-22-63 article in the Dallas Times-Herald. Note: in 1995 Hargis would tell researchers Ian Griggs and Mark Oakes that he didn't write this article and that it must have been based on a conversation he'd had with a reporter in a hallway) “About halfway down between Houston and the underpass I heard the first shot. It sounded like a real loud firecracker. When I heard the sound, the first thing I thought about was a gunshot. I looked around and about then Governor Connally turned around and looked at the President with a real surprised look on his face…The President bent over to hear what the Governor had to say. When he raised back up was when the President got shot…I felt blood hit me in the face and the Presidential car stopped almost immediately after that…I racked (parked) my motorcycle and jumped off.”
This is almost certainly the basis for the 11-22 article) "I felt blood hit me in the face, and the presidential car stopped almost immediately after that and stayed stopped about half a second, then took off at a high rate of speed. I racked my cycle and jumped off. I ran to the north side of Elm Street to see if I could find where the bullets came from. I don't think the President got hit with the first shot, but I don't know for sure. When I heard the first shot, it looked like he bent over. I feel that the Governor was shot first. I could be wrong. Right after the first shot, I was trying to look and see if the President got shot. When I saw the look on Connally's face, I knew somebody was shooting at the car...The fatal bullet struck the President in the right side of the head.
(11-24-63 article in the New York Sunday News) "We turned left onto Elm St. off Houston, about a half block from where it happened. I was right alongside the rear fender on the left side of the President's car, near Mrs. Kennedy. When I heard the first explosion, I knew it was a shot. I thought that Gov. Connally had been hit when I saw him turn toward the President with a real surprised look. The President then looked like he was bent over or that he was leaning toward the Governor, talking to him. As the President straightened back up, Mrs. Kennedy turned toward him, and that was when he got hit in the side of his head, spinning it around. I was splattered with blood. Then I felt something hit me. It could have been concrete or something, but I thought at first I might have been hit. Then I saw the limousine stop, and I parked my motorcycle at the side of the road, got off and drew my gun.
(4-3-64 testimony before the Warren Commission, 6H293-296): “I was next to Mrs. Kennedy when I heard the first shot, and at that time the President bent over, and Governor Connally turned around. He was sitting directly in front of him, and (had) a real shocked and surprised expression on his face…I thought Governor Connally had been shot first, but it looked like the President was bending over to hear what he had to say, and I thought to myself then that Governor Connally, the Governor had been hit, and then as the President raised back up like that the shot that killed him hit him.” (When asked about the blood) "when President Kennedy straightened back up in the car the bullet hit him in the head, the one that killed him and it seemed like his head exploded,
10-26-77, notes transcribed 11-16-77, JFK document #003300, RIF 180-10107-10243) ""When they turned left on Elm from Houston, he was watching the President's car. Shortly afterwards, he heard a shot. He saw President Kennedy slump forward and Governor Connally turn. He felt at the time that Connally might have been hit and the President was leaning forward to find out what happened. He said the first shot sounded to him like a firecracker. The second shot hit JFK in the head.
(Interview by HSCA investigator Jack Moriarty dated 8-8-78, notes transcribed 8-23-78, JFK document #014362, RIF 180-10113-10272) "When the first report sounded, he was "about one-third of the way down Elm", having made the last turn from Houston. It sounded like a firecracker, but he was unable to tell where it came from. He looked to his right and saw Connally turning and the President appeared to be leaning forward as if he was trying to hear what the Governor was saying. He had seen JFK lean forward in like manner during the motorcade as he and Connally had been conversing. This time, though, the President had an expression of pain on his face. When the second shot was fired - no doubt gunfire this time as it hit the President's head -
Interview by HSCA investigator Jack Moriarty, 12-29-78, JFK document # 014224, RIF 180-10109-10354). "Reached Mr. Hargis at his new residence... today and developed the following additional information. At the sound of the first shot, he was "in position" - some five to six feet from the left corner of the rear bumper of John F. Kennedy limousine. At the sound of the second shot, he was a bit closer (the limousine slowed and nearly stopped) - perhaps four feet. By the third shot (although he doesn't recall the actual, but saw John F. Kennedy's head explode), he was "almost even with Jackie - no more than two or three feet, if that."
(Interview with NBC broadcast on the 1988 program That Day In November) "It sounded like a firecracker to me and I thought 'Oh Lord, let it be a firecracker. And it looked like the President was bending over, forward. And then when he raised back up is when that second shot hit him in the head." (5-14-92 video-taped interview with Mark Oakes) "I was trying to catch up to my assigned station when the first shot rang out...I saw Connally turn around...I thought he had been shot. It sounded like a firecracker but then when I saw Connally's face I thought he'd been shot. Which he had...The second shot made his head like a ripe tomato when you shoot it with a gun on the ground. It explodes. That's how his head did. It exploded. Now you got brain matter, blood, and everything else on you" (6-26-95 video-taped interview with Mark Oakes and Ian Griggs) (On the explosion of Kennedy's head) "It didn't only hit me...It showered everything in the car behind it...You put a ripe tomato, and you shoot it with a gun and it splatters. That's what it was...But the first shot sounded like a firecracker...I've been fired at like five times and every one of them sounded like a firecracker--to me...
(Later, after voicing his support for the single-bullet theory) "There was not three shots; there was only two. I only heard two. One got him through the back and one got him through the head. That's it...The facts was there was two shots--one that hit him in the back and one that hit him in the head. And the one that hit him in the head just busted his head wide open. That's it."
(November 1998 interview with Texas Monthly) “About ten seconds after we made that left-hand turn, that first shot rang out…I remember Kennedy leaned forward to listen to what he had to say. And then when he raised back up, that second shot hit him in the head. But we figured out that he had got shot—that first bullet had gone through the upper part of his back, well through the seat, and hit Connally’s wrist and glanced off and went into his thigh.”
(Interview within an 11-22-03 WBAP radio program found on Youtube) "Yeah I looked toward the President and I thought maybe John Connally was hit because he turned around to look at the President. He had a real surprised look on his face. Kennedy was bending over like he was listening to what Connally had to say. When he raised back up, that second shot hit him in the head. That's what killed him, There was only two shots fired."
(7-1-03 interview with Mike Brownlow available on youtube as part of the compilation Shattered Friday) "The first thing that I noticed when we turned the corner and headed to the triple underpass was a popping sound like a firecracker...Governor Connally had turned around and I thought that Governor Connally had been shot because he had such a pained expression on his face. About 5 seconds later the motorcade slowed down and the President lifted back up and the bullet hit him in the head.
(11-22-03 article in the Dallas Morning News) “Hargis differs with the Warren Commission and most eyewitnesses, insisting that only two shots were fired. With the first, “a thousand million things went through my mind,” he says. After the last, “there was a plume of blood and brains and plasma. It was just like a fog, and I ran right through it.”
Unlike DPD Chaney, who many years later changes what he had originally stated to a three-shot narrative, DPD Hargis never waivers, but instead reaffirms there were only two shots.
According to this analysis, DPD Chaney is unaware JFK or JBC were ever struck by the first bullet. Despite the fact DPD Chaney is seen staring at them in the Altgen's photo.
In Altgens’ photo we see Chaney’s head in profile. This necessarily means that his head is pointed about 90-degrees from the camera. Here’s a crop of the photo:
(https://i.vgy.me/8a1SpK.jpg)
Now let’s take a look at the relative positions of Chaney and JFK/JBC. Here is a crop of an image by Dale Myers that shows an overhead view of their positions at the time of the Altgens photo:
(https://i.vgy.me/PeJmgJ.jpg)
I drew the yellow and blue lines to indicate directions to the other two motorcycles on the left side of the limo (yellow line) and to JFK/JBC (blue line). Altgens’ position can be seen near the lower left corner of the image. I submit that if Chaney was “staring at JFK/JBC we would not be seeing his head in profile; instead Chaney would be looking more towards the camera. Therefore, it appears to me that Chaney was looking at what he told the FBI he was looking at just after the second shot.
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According to this analysis, DPD Chaney is unaware JFK or JBC were ever struck by the first bullet. Despite the fact DPD Chaney is seen staring at them in the Altgen's photo.
In Altgens’ photo we see Chaney’s head in profile. This necessarily means that his head is pointed about 90-degrees from the camera. Here’s a crop of the photo:
(https://i.vgy.me/8a1SpK.jpg)
Now let’s take a look at the relative positions of Chaney and JFK/JBC. Here is a crop of an image by Dale Myers that shows an overhead view of their positions at the time of the Altgens photo:
(https://i.vgy.me/PeJmgJ.jpg)
I drew the yellow and blue lines to indicate directions to the other two motorcycles on the left side of the limo (yellow line) and to JFK/JBC (blue line). Altgens’ position can be seen near the lower left corner of the image. I submit that if Chaney was “staring at JFK/JBC we would not be seeing his head in profile; instead Chaney would be looking more towards the camera. Therefore, it appears to me that Chaney was looking at what he told the FBI he was looking at just after the second shot.
Do you really believe that the JFK Limo had traveled passed the Stemmons sign and reached the Light Pole when Altgens snapped the Lovelady photo? Nope!
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Do you really believe that the JFK Limo had traveled passed the Stemmons sign and reached the Light Pole when Altgens snapped the Lovelady photo? Nope!
Here’s a wider view of where Dale Myers has it:
(https://i.vgy.me/QWX9qi.jpg)
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Here’s a wider view of where Dale Myers has it:
(https://i.vgy.me/QWX9qi.jpg)
Thanks for posting the above "wide view". Altgens clashed with the WC Attorney regarding his physical position on the (S) side of Elm. He did so based on the setting of his camera with respect to his distance from the JFK Limo when he snapped #6.
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DPD motorcycle cop Jim Chaney was riding escort to the right side of the limo. He was the closest cop to JFK. Jim said that he thought the first shot was a motorcycle backfire. Jim Chaney said in a TV interview on 11/22/63 that he looked over at JFK right after he heard the shot and that JFK was looking towards his left shoulder. Here is a clip showing Chaney starting at Z136 through Z153. It appears to me that Chaney is turning his head to his left to look at JFK:
(https://i.vgy.me/7HRlj1.gif)
Meanwhile, JFK is shown in this clip during frames Z133 through Z154. JFK finishes fixing his hair and turns his head quickly towards his left shoulder. I would guess that he is checking on Jackie after hearing the first shot (which many folks thought to be a motorcycle backfire).
(https://i.vgy.me/hnXgaQ.gif)
Take a look at the National Archives copy of the Zapruder film. James Chaney keeps his head facing straight ahead if you watch him until he disappears from Zapruder's view. He never looks to his left at any time.
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According to this analysis, DPD Chaney is unaware JFK or JBC were ever struck by the first bullet. Despite the fact DPD Chaney is seen staring at them in the Altgen's photo.
In Altgens’ photo we see Chaney’s head in profile. This necessarily means that his head is pointed about 90-degrees from the camera. Here’s a crop of the photo:
(https://i.vgy.me/8a1SpK.jpg)
Now let’s take a look at the relative positions of Chaney and JFK/JBC. Here is a crop of an image by Dale Myers that shows an overhead view of their positions at the time of the Altgens photo:
(https://i.vgy.me/PeJmgJ.jpg)
I drew the yellow and blue lines to indicate directions to the other two motorcycles on the left side of the limo (yellow line) and to JFK/JBC (blue line). Altgens’ position can be seen near the lower left corner of the image. I submit that if Chaney was “staring at JFK/JBC we would not be seeing his head in profile; instead Chaney would be looking more towards the camera. Therefore, it appears to me that Chaney was looking at what he told the FBI he was looking at just after the second shot.
There are a number of problems with this picture and explanation. You have mixed up the fifth (1975 FBI) statement with the previous four statements given in the aftermath of the assassination with two completely different explanations of the shooting.
This is nothing more than what do you believe.
Charles Collins:
“That is not what Chaney said. He said JFK appeared to be looking over his left shoulder. The only place we see anything of that nature is in the clip provided in the first post in this thread. It is from about the mid Z40s to mid Z150s.”
“I cannot believe that Chaney would describe JFK as looking over his left shoulder after he was shot around Z224. It should be obvious to anyone who sees the Zapruder film that at that point JFK was reacting to being shot. Chaney wouldn’t have left that part out.”
Neither of your two versions ever mentions the throat shot. Just the headshot. For the 1975 FBI version he just added an extra shot with no explanation.
Version one explanation has an early missed shot at Z145 followed by the headshot
Version two explanation has DPD Chaney looking at DPD Hargis at Z256 instead of the wounded JFK and JBC. No mention of either JFK or JBC having been wounded which you have stated: “Chaney would not have left that part out”. But he did. Now just do the math. If the second shot or bullet is the headshot, what is the first shot or bullet?
Neither version ever mentions the throat shot. Just the headshot. Version two has an extra shot added with no explanation at all.
This new version now has DPD Chaney looking at DPD Hargis, at least in this new version based on Altgen’s photo at Z255. At this point JBC and JFK have reacted severely to having been wounded.
The first shot and JFK and DPD Chaney heads turning left at Z145 has now been moved up to Z255 and after JFK and JBC have both been wounded which is what DPD Chaney is looking at.
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Take a look at the National Archives copy of the Zapruder film. James Chaney keeps his head facing straight ahead if you watch him until he disappears from Zapruder's view. He never looks to his left at any time.
Have you seen the National Archives copy of the Zapruder film Steve? It is my understanding that that is a privilege that not many people get to have.
I won’t argue about the direction that his head faces. My impression that he turned his head to his left could definitely be wrong. However, I think that he could have glanced to his left using just the movement of his eyes. My opinion still is that Chaney’s description of JFK looking over his left shoulder just after the first loud bang that Chaney first thought was a motorcycle backfire is when JFK does just that around the mid Z140s to Z150s.
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I believe you guys are choosing to avoid getting into what is obvious. The Zapruder Film and Altgens 6 do Not show the same thing. JFK Assassination Image conflict/alteration is Not a new issue in this case. You can Not veer away from it.
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James Chaney keeps his head facing straight ahead if you watch him until he disappears from Zapruder's view. He never looks to his left at any time.
Is the darkened area on the right side of Chaney's face a shadow?
If so, why isn't there a shadow on the right side of the other motorcycle policeman's face?
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Have you seen the National Archives copy of the Zapruder film Steve? It is my understanding that that is a privilege that not many people get to have.
I won’t argue about the direction that his head faces. My impression that he turned his head to his left could definitely be wrong. However, I think that he could have glanced to his left using just the movement of his eyes. My opinion still is that Chaney’s description of JFK looking over his left shoulder just after the first loud bang that Chaney first thought was a motorcycle backfire is when JFK does just that around the mid Z140s to Z150s.
Hi Charles,
This is an enhanced copy (slowed and somewhat steadied) of the National Archives (NA) copy. I am looking for the copy of the NA Z film without the enhancement, and slow motion, and as soon as I find it I'll post the link here for you. This gives a good view of Chaney, however, without Zapruder's camera jerking, and such:
Here is the link to the NA copy of the Z film at regular speed, un-enhanced. You can slow the film down on YouTube to get a better view of James Chaney.
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Hi Charles,
This is an enhanced copy (slowed and somewhat steadied) of the National Archives (NA) copy. I am looking for the copy of the NA Z film without the enhancement, and slow motion, and as soon as I find it I'll post the link here for you. This gives a good view of Chaney, however, without Zapruder's camera jerking, and such:
Here is the link to the NA copy of the Z film at regular speed, un-enhanced. You can slow the film down on YouTube to get a better view of James Chaney.
Thanks Steve these are helpful!
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Hi Charles,
This is an enhanced copy (slowed and somewhat steadied) of the National Archives (NA) copy. I am looking for the copy of the NA Z film without the enhancement, and slow motion, and as soon as I find it I'll post the link here for you. This gives a good view of Chaney, however, without Zapruder's camera jerking, and such:
Here is the link to the NA copy of the Z film at regular speed, un-enhanced. You can slow the film down on YouTube to get a better view of James Chaney.
Thanks for posting that Z Film copy. To my eye, I see a lot more JFK "Up-Down" movement before #313 vs other Z Film copies. (Including "The Lost Bullet"). This Up-Down validates eyewitnesses claiming that JFK stood up or rose up like he was faking being hit in the chest.