JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate => Topic started by: Fred Litwin on December 03, 2025, 12:51:47 PM
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https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-knott-laboratory-disprove-the-single-bullet-theory
(https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-knott-laboratory-disprove-the-single-bullet-theory)
Did Knott Laboratory Disprove the Single-Bullet Theory?
I believe that their recreation of the single-bullet theory substantiates Dale Myers' animation, and thus proves that one bullet went through Kennedy and Connally.
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FL--
Are you a fan of the "the bullet tumbled after passing through JFK's neck and then hit Gov. Connally, leaving a large sideways-ish entry wound, thus proving the bullet struck JFK first" explanation?
Both Michael Baden and Robert Blakey subscribe to the tumbling bullet theory. This theory was cited for along time, but seems to have faded in recent decades.
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FL--
Are you a fan of the "the bullet tumbled after passing through JFK's neck and then hit Gov. Connally, leaving a large sideways-ish entry wound, thus proving the bullet struck JFK first" explanation?
Both Michael Baden and Robert Blakey subscribe to the tumbling bullet theory. This theory was cited for along time, but seems to have faded in recent decades.
What does it matter whether or not CE-399 started tumbling between JFK's neck and JBC's back (where it caused an entrance wound measuring 15 mm x 6 mm)?
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What does it matter?
Both Michael Baden and Robert Blakey, both HSBC, said the fact that the "bullet tumbled" before hitting Gov. JBC was proof the slug had first passed through JFK's neck.
So, did the bullet tumble before striking JBC?
What say you?
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What does it matter?
Both Michael Baden and Robert Blakey, both HSBC, said the fact that the "bullet tumbled" before hitting Gov. JBC was proof the slug had first passed through JFK's neck.
So, did the bullet tumble before striking JBC?
What say you?
Maybe.
Maybe not.
Why does it matter?
What does HSBC stand for?
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HSBC is a major global bank. HSCA is the relevant congressional committee, and I stand corrected.
Well, if two major figures in the JFKA investigation-world say the tumbling bullet theory is why they believe in the SBT...what happens if we have proof the bullet did not tumble before it struck Gov. JBC?
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HSBC is a major global bank. HSCA is the relevant congressional committee, and I stand corrected.
Well, if two major figures in the JFKA investigation-world say the tumbling bullet theory is why they believe in the SBT...what happens if we have proof the bullet did not tumble before it struck Gov. JBC?
The Haags showed in "Cold Case: JFK" that that kind of bullet has a tendency to start tumbling upon exiting something soft like a block of ballistics gel or a human neck.
However, if CE-399 *didn't* tumble between JFK's throat and JBC's back, the possibility remains that the reason the wound in JBC's back (15mm x 6mm) was more elongated than the one in JFK's lower neck / upper back was simply because he was (still) turned far to his right at Z-222 and therefore CE-399 struck him at a sharper angle than it did JFK.
It seems to me that you're trying really, really hard to incorporate a second shooter in the scenario . . . maybe even a Castro-loyal Cuban.
Am I right?
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-UdKSnTDThh4/Uw3zRDBeDfI/AAAAAAAAx-c/pzqLNRvmd3k/s1600/Zapruder-Film-In-Motion-Clip.gif
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Oooooh, I am straining, struggling, laboring, sweating bullets, drudging and slogging to invent, fabricate and imagine two shooters behind JFK on 11/22.
I can't figure out how Gov. JBC was struck ~Z-295 and JFK at Z-313.
Last night I flatulated so hard I gained two inches of lift off the ceramic throne! Stress!
In fact, there is a small round hole in the back of JBC's assassination-day shirt.
https://www.tsl.texas.gov/sites/default/files/public/tslac/landing/documents/jfk-damaged-clothing18.pdf
Why Blakey and Baden, and a generation of LN'ers, jibber-jabbered about a "tumbling bullet" is somewhat comical. Basic physical evidence does not count?
Dr Robert Shaw leaned to the explanation that JBC was shot directly from above and behind. And wondered about the shot to JBC's wrist.
I agree with Shaw.
Castro, G2, KGB and Alpha-66 come to mind. Possibly CIA'ers who were really KGB assets.
Plenty of Cubans wanted revenge on JFK.
The LN explanation was preferred at the time (1963-4). Especially by KGB moles in the CIA?
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Oooooh, I am straining, struggling, laboring, sweating bullets, drudging and slogging to invent, fabricate and imagine two shooters behind JFK on 11/22.
I can't figure out how Gov. JBC was struck ~Z-295 and JFK at Z-313.
Last night I flatulated so hard I gained two inches of lift off the ceramic throne! Stress!
In fact, there is a small round hole in the back of JBC's assassination-day shirt.
https://www.tsl.texas.gov/sites/default/files/public/tslac/landing/documents/jfk-damaged-clothing18.pdf
Why Blakey and Baden, and a generation of LN'ers, jibber-jabbered about a "tumbling bullet" is somewhat comical. Basic physical evidence does not count?
Dr Robert Shaw leaned to the explanation that JBC was shot directly from above and behind. And wondered about the shot to JBC's wrist.
I agree with Shaw.
Castro, G2, KGB and Alpha-66 come to mind. Possibly CIA'ers who were really KGB assets.
Plenty of Cubans wanted revenge on JFK.
The LN explanation was preferred at the time (1963-4). Especially by KGB moles in the CIA?
Yeah, that bullet entrance "to the back side of JBC's wrist" is a real stumper, huh?
Regarding whether or not CE-399 tumbled between JFK's throat and JBC's back, do you think the so-called Single Bullet Theory is completely dependent on its having done so?
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Oooooh, I am straining, struggling, laboring, sweating bullets, drudging and slogging to invent, fabricate and imagine two shooters behind JFK on 11/22.
I can't figure out how Gov. JBC was struck ~Z-295 and JFK at Z-313.
Last night I flatulated so hard I gained two inches of lift off the ceramic throne! Stress!
In fact, there is a small round hole in the back of JBC's assassination-day shirt.
https://www.tsl.texas.gov/sites/default/files/public/tslac/landing/documents/jfk-damaged-clothing18.pdf
Why Blakey and Baden, and a generation of LN'ers, jibber-jabbered about a "tumbling bullet" is somewhat comical. Basic physical evidence does not count?
Dr Robert Shaw leaned to the explanation that JBC was shot directly from above and behind. And wondered about the shot to JBC's wrist.
I agree with Shaw.
Castro, G2, KGB and Alpha-66 come to mind. Possibly CIA'ers who were really KGB assets.
Plenty of Cubans wanted revenge on JFK.
The LN explanation was preferred at the time (1963-4). Especially by KGB moles in the CIA?
The "ABOVE and Behind" location of a shooter is Not restricted to the 6th Floor snipers's nest. When you consider the topography of Dealey Plaza and Elm St running down hill toward the Triple Underpass, this "above and behind" description would include a shot being fired from the Bushes/Shrubs/Garden that run along the Elm St Extension. These are the same Bushes/Shrubs/Garden that DPD Officer Smith can be seen checking on the Darnell/Couch Films. A possible shot from these bushes is also referenced by Mal Couch and Bill Newman. And going back to 1988, "The Men Who Killed Kennedy" detailed there being 3 total shooters. 2 shooters being Behind JFK, "...one almost on the horizontal". A shot fired from the Bushes/Shrubs/Garden would fit the, "almost on the horizontal", along with the, "above and behind" location of a JFK shooter. And of course, there is also the "getaway" car that was conveniently pulling into position close to the corner of the Elm St Extension and Elm St. This parked location of the "getaway" car was also directly across from the "wide open" Huge Gates that were attached to the TSBD. These "wide open" Huge Gates did provide clandestine access and egress to/from the TSBD. The assassination of JFK was a very well planned Conspiracy.
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https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-knott-laboratory-disprove-the-single-bullet-theory
(https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-knott-laboratory-disprove-the-single-bullet-theory)
Did Knott Laboratory Disprove the Single-Bullet Theory?
I believe that their recreation of the single-bullet theory substantiates Dale Myers' animation, and thus proves that one bullet went through Kennedy and Connally.
Knott demonstrated, beyond any reasonable doubt, that a bullet passing through JFK would hit JBC in the back;
(https://i.postimg.cc/XqhXjH2g/knott2.png) (https://postimages.org/)
However, as good as their recreation of Dealey Plaza and the limo were, their recreation of the relative positions of JFK and JBC was way off. They had JBC sat almost directly in front of JFK when , in fact, he was sat a lot further inboard. Correcting this would correct where Knott estimated JBC was hit by a bullet passing through JFK:
(https://i.postimg.cc/P56fTFPy/knott4.png) (https://postimages.org/)
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Knott demonstrated, beyond any reasonable doubt, that a bullet passing through JFK would hit JBC in the back;
(https://i.postimg.cc/XqhXjH2g/knott2.png) (https://postimages.org/)
However, as good as their recreation of Dealey Plaza and the limo were, their recreation of the relative positions of JFK and JBC was way off. They had JBC sat almost directly in front of JFK when , in fact, he was sat a lot further inboard. Correcting this would correct where Knott estimated JBC was hit by a bullet passing through JFK:
(https://i.postimg.cc/P56fTFPy/knott4.png) (https://postimages.org/)
"...he was SAT a lot further inboard"? Nobody knows the physical body positions of JFK or Gov Connally when they went behind the Stemmons Sign. But if you look at overhead photos of the JFK Limo at the DC Lab, the Connally jump seat itself is physically DIRECTLY in front of the JFK seated portion of the backseat. Also, the Connally jump seat does NOT MOVE (R) or (L). It can Only move forward or backward due to being attached to a runner. And, if you look at Love Field footage when the (R) rear door of the JFK Limo is closed, you can see how Connally's (R) leg is pressed against that same door. They had to be extremely careful to NOT slam that door into Connally's (R) leg when they closed that door. This is how extremely close to the (R) side of the JFK Limo that the jump seat was Fixed. Both JFK and Connally also had their (R) elbows resting atop the (R) side of the car throughout their journey thru Dallas. ALL of this is indicative of their being seated "inline".
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TG---
No, the SBT is not totally dependent on the "tumbling" bullet undergirding.
But, that is why Michael Baden and Robert Blakey (big dudes at HSCA) said they believed the SBT. And many others.
OK, the SBT bullet was obviously not tumbling...so then what?
And, yes, the entry wound on Gov. JBC's dorsal-side wrist is a puzzler.
One problem: The SBT was devised to explain why two shots did so much damage, and Specter's job was to present the prosecution's case against LHO.
To avoid any hint that KGB, G2, or others might have helped LHO: Specter's job.
The JFKA case against any organization is speculative. If LHO had confederates, they were never apprehended. It could have been anybody.
Possibly Alpha-66. Acting independently. But then G2 had infiltrated many exile organizations.
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RS-
Thanks for your comments.
I agree DPD'er Smith was told by an eyewitness that shots came from the bushes in the concourse and GK area, and he was investigating. Smith later came across a man who flashed Secret Service credentials. Odd.
There was an entry wound to the dorsal side of JBC's wrist. Hard to explain.
IMHO, the JFKA was nearly an impromptu and ad hoc affair, perped by individuals with no institutional power in the US.
Cubans, either exiles, or G2 assets, or Alpha 66, who had experience in kinetic terror ops---indeed, Antonio Veciana personally tried to blow up Castro with a bazooka. The Alpha 66'ers were chronically livid regarding the BoP.
On the other hand, G2 assets may have been informed by double-agent Ruben Cubela that JFK was still trying to assassinate Castro. Turnabout is fair play.
Somehow the Cubans convinced LHO to play a role in the JFKA. As a devout Marxist, and pro-Castro-ite, perhaps LHO was on board, or perhaps only made into a patsy.
That's about as much as I suspect.
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OK, the SBT bullet was obviously not tumbling ... so then what?
I didn't say CE-399 wasn't tumbling between JFK's neck and JBC's back.
This is from the Right Down Your Alley Department:
"Maybe it was."
"Maybe it wasn't."
The important thing is that the so-called Single Bullet Theory doesn't depend on it.
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-UdKSnTDThh4/Uw3zRDBeDfI/AAAAAAAAx-c/pzqLNRvmd3k/s1600/Zapruder-Film-In-Motion-Clip.gif
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TG--
Your astute comments are not un-meaningless.
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TG--
Your astute comments are not un-meaningless.
Have you got any bananas today?
If not, it must be a conspiracy, huh?
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And I quote:
"Yes, we have no bananas!"
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And I quote:
"Yes, we have no bananas!"
It's a conspiracy, right?
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I speculate, but cannot prove, the banana cartel is at work.
“Whenever two or more businessmen concert together ... the meeting ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices”---Lord Keynes.
Others support The Single Banana Theory.
Maybe, maybe not.
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The entry wound on the back side of JBC's wrist is a real puzzler. (paraphrased)
Since he was holding his hat by its brim so low in the limousine that it can't be seen in this photo, it's no wonder CE-399 penetrated the back side of his wrist.
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-dallas-crowds-waving-as-president-kennedys-limousine-drives-through-170540720.html?imageid=242B65B6-B87D-4527-A037-6A0A23D0211A&pn=1&searchId=63a0d22418654c2f24485d3ba62965d6&searchtype=0
https://www.alamy.com/no-film-no-video-no-tv-no-documentary-a-10-mile-drive-through-dallas-and-a-speech-on-national-security-at-the-trade-mart-awaited-president-john-f-kennedy-as-he-first-lady-jacqueline-kennedy-texas-gov-john-connally-and-nellie-connally-departed-love-field-on-nov-22-1963-less-than-a-hour-later-gunshots-would-shatter-the-presidents-plans-and-plunge-the-nation-into-profound-grief-take-a-trip-back-to-that-fateful-day-50-years-ago-photo-by-tom-dillarddallas-morning-newsmctabacapresscom-image386909828.html?imageid=8CB451D2-DAB3-4B08-B5E4-8AF1C4CE9DB1&pn=2&searchId=f7498d4e14eb0b621ec6c33522cb0cfc&searchtype=0
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Fred, you might to check with your fellow lone-gunman theorists, because they have been trashing the Knott Lab trajectory analysis, but now you're saying it validates Myers' (bogus) analysis. The Knott Lab experts say the opposite. They say their unique, unprecedented trajectory analysis refutes the single-bullet theory. I quote:
Using a 3D laser scanner (Leica RTC360), we conducted 36 laser scans of Dealey Plaza. This laser scanner captures up to two million points per second and HDR imagery, resulting in a point cloud, or digital twin, of the scene. This provides forensic engineers with a scientifically accurate model from which measurements can be taken. The Dealey Plaza point cloud has over 851 million data points.
The next step was to reconstruct the scene to historic accuracy for November 22, 1963. To do so, our visualization experts used historic photographs of the plaza and presidential limousine, as well as the “Zapruder film,” which is widely considered the best video footage of the incident. Using a process called photogrammetry, the visualization team was able to place these images into the point cloud, syncing their locations within the scene. Altogether, 25 historic photographs and 7 frames of the Zapruder film were used for this photogrammetry. . . .
Photogrammetry, camera matching, camera tracking and object matching processes were also used to establish the location of Oswald’s perch, the correct dimensions of the limousine, create the digital models of President Kennedy and Governor Connally, and establish their positions, frame by frame, throughout the incident. . . .
For the single bullet theory to be true, the shooting position, bullet exit point on President Kennedy, and entry point on Governor Connally should all be reasonably in line. When drawing this line from the sixth-floor perch of the Texas Book Depository to the positions of the two men and their entry/exit points, we found a significant difference in both distance and angle. (https://knottlab.com/blog/knott-laboratory-presents-digital-reconstruction-and-findings-on-the-assassination-of-president-john-f-kennedy/)
And:
To reconstruct the scene with modern technology, the Knott Laboratory experts conducted a high-definition laser scan of Dealey Plaza to generate a point cloud of up to two million points per second, to accurately measure point-to-point anywhere in the scene. Knott Laboratory also obtained historic photographic evidence from the plaza, the limousine, and the “Zapruder film,” which is widely known as the best video footage of the incident in its entirety.
From this point cloud, the team of forensic engineers was able to match images from the scene and the Zapruder film using a process called photogrammetry. They modeled the presidential limousine using multiple photographs and established the correct dimensions of the vehicle. Through a process called match moving, they synced frames from the Zapruder film into the digital recreation of the scene. The match moving enabled the alignment of the digital models of Kennedy and Connally in the vehicle to establish their positions frame by frame throughout the incident. . . .
“With the ability to measure distances, locations and angles from the point cloud, we could develop the exact trajectory between Oswald’s shooting position and points on each body,” said Stanley Stoll, CEO & Principal Engineer of Knott Laboratory. “Our team tested bullet trajectories using the two frames from the Zapruder film where the first shots occurred and the known entry and exit points on Kennedy and Connally.”
Stoll continued, “The shooting position, bullet exit point on President Kennedy, and entry point on Governor Connally should all be reasonably in line. When drawing this line from the sixth floor perch of the Texas Book Depository to the positions of the two men and their entry/exit points, we found a significant angle difference. (https://knottlab.com/blog/knott-lab-uses-forensic-science-to-refute-warren-commission-findings-on-jfk-assassination/)
Here's an interview with one of the Knott Lab experts:
I notice you said nothing about the fact that we know the SBT is false because the photographic evidence proves that any bullet exiting the shirt slits would have had to go through JFK's tie knot and that no such bullet could have magically weaved around the body of the knot and nicked the knot's outer surface inward from the left edge. Not on this planet.
In addition, the hard physical evidence of the rear JFK clothing holes proves the SBT is impossible, since the holes prove that the back wound was well below the throat wound.
Moreover, we have known since the 1990s, largely thanks to ARRB disclosures, that on the night of the autopsy, the autopsy doctors positively, absolutely established that the back wound was shallow and had no exit point, which is why the first two drafts of the autopsy report said nothing about the throat wound being an exit point for the back wound.
JFK's Clothing Proves the Single-Bullet Theory Is Impossible
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MAgWA0frOLVeWY6ok9nzdrgpRN4Wv1AL/view