JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate => Topic started by: Fred Litwin on October 24, 2025, 12:42:44 PM
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https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-clay-shaw-get-the-help-he-deserved-part-one
(https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-clay-shaw-get-the-help-he-deserved-part-one)
Did Clay Shaw Get the Help He Deserved?, Part One
This is the first part of a ten-part series. Clay Shaw's attorneys turned to the Department of Justice, the FBI, and the CIA for help in fighting Jim Garrison's baseless charge that he conspired to kill Kennedy. Here's the truth -- they all declined to help and left him to the wolves.
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https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-clay-shaw-get-the-help-he-deserved-part-one
(https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-clay-shaw-get-the-help-he-deserved-part-one)
Did Clay Shaw Get the Help He Deserved?, Part One
This is the first part of a ten-part series. Clay Shaw's attorneys turned to the Department of Justice, the FBI, and the CIA for help in fighting Jim Garrison's baseless charge that he conspired to kill Kennedy. Here's the truth -- they all declined to help and left him to the wolves.
Dear Fred,
Is it true, as JFKA researcher (and CT!!!) Malcolm Blunt said near the end of his 9/10/21 YouTube interview with Bart Kamp, that probable KGB "mole" Bruce Solie in the mole-hunting Office of Security "was all over Clay Shaw for Jim Garrison"?
-- Tom
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I watched the last five minutes. You have a time stamp?
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I watched the last five minutes. You have a time stamp?
At 1:00:26, but you would benefit greatly from watching the whole thing.
Why?
Because, as Blunt says at 33:01, "Nosenko is Mega."
Note: Blunt says "Jim DiEugenio . . . Jim DiEugenio" when he means to say "Jim Garrison . . . Jim Garrison."
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Why do you hijack threads? This post is not about Solie, but is about Clay Shaw.
Here is part two of my ten-part series.
https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-clay-shaw-get-the-help-he-deserved-part-two
(https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-clay-shaw-get-the-help-he-deserved-part-two)
Did Clay Shaw Get the Help He Deserved?, Part Two
Lyndon Johnson tells Attorney General Ramsey Clark not to interfere or obstruct Jim Garrison's JFK assassination investigation. The FBI also takes a hands-off approach and tells its agents that no one is to meet with any Garrison official. The FBI even has an opportunity to prosecute Garrison for fraud but decides not to go forward because they were afraid of accusations that they would be interfering.
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Why do you hijack threads? This post is not about Solie, but is about Clay Shaw.
Here is part two of my ten-part series.
https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-clay-shaw-get-the-help-he-deserved-part-two
(https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-clay-shaw-get-the-help-he-deserved-part-two)
Did Clay Shaw Get the Help He Deserved?, Part Two
Lyndon Johnson tells Attorney General Ramsey Clark not to interfere or obstruct Jim Garrison's JFK assassination investigation. The FBI also takes a hands-off approach and tells its agents that no one is to meet with any Garrison official. The FBI even has an opportunity to prosecute Garrison for fraud but decides not to go forward because they were afraid of accusations that they would be interfering.
Dear Fred,
Don't you think it's interesting to find out that a probable KGB "mole" in the CIA was involved in Garrison's "evaluation" of Shaw?
-- Tom
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Why do you hijack threads? This post is not about Solie, but is about Clay Shaw.
Here is part two of my ten-part series.
https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-clay-shaw-get-the-help-he-deserved-part-two
(https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-clay-shaw-get-the-help-he-deserved-part-two)
Did Clay Shaw Get the Help He Deserved?, Part Two
Lyndon Johnson tells Attorney General Ramsey Clark not to interfere or obstruct Jim Garrison's JFK assassination investigation. The FBI also takes a hands-off approach and tells its agents that no one is to meet with any Garrison official. The FBI even has an opportunity to prosecute Garrison for fraud but decides not to go forward because they were afraid of accusations that they would be interfering.
The FBI also takes a hands-off approach and tells its agents that no one is to meet with any Garrison official.--FL
Is that "hands off," or is that a lack or cooperation that one might normally expect between a district attorney and the FBI?
BTW, if Solie played a role in the whole Garrison-Shaw fandango, I would like to know what it was.
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The FBI also takes a hands-off approach and tells its agents that no one is to meet with any Garrison official.--FL
Is that "hands off," or is that a lack or cooperation that one might normally expect between a district attorney and the FBI?
BTW, if Solie played a role in the whole Garrison-Shaw fandango, I would like to know what it was.
It may have been just to convince Garrison that Shaw hadn't really "worked" for the evil, evil CIA.
A "mole" does, after all, have to play it straight sometimes to maintain his or her cover.
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TG-
Verily, but if what KGB-stooge Bruce Solie was doing was in fact trying to steer investigators away from LHO, his asset..then that idea should be explored.
It is a bit fishy that a CIA "highly paid contract source"--Shaw--was ding-donging around with LHO.
Was LHO actually trying to penetrate a part of CIA, on Solie's instigation?
Could Solie use LHO to plant misinformation within CIA ranks?
Just thinking out loud...
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TG-
Verily, but if what KGB-stooge Bruce Solie was doing was in fact trying to steer investigators away from LHO, his asset..then that idea should be explored.
It is a bit fishy that a CIA "highly paid contract source"--Shaw--was ding-donging around with LHO.
Was LHO actually trying to penetrate a part of CIA, on Solie's instigation?
Could Solie use LHO to plant misinformation within CIA ranks?
Just thinking out loud...
1) What "investigators," and why would they be thinking about investigating Oswald in 1967, 1968, 1969?
2) You seem to be conspiracy minded to the max regarding the JFKA, be it the evil, evil CIA or the evil, evil, evil KGB. (Note the truly deserved extra "evil" for the latter.)
3) I believe you're over-thinking it.
4) Do you really believe Clay Shaw was "a highly paid CIA contract source"?
5) Do you really believe he was "ding-donging around with Oswald"?
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There is no such thing has a highly paid contract source.
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There is no such thing has a highly paid contract source.
We know that, Fred.
(Or at least I do.)
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FL-
That is the term used by the CIA historian to describe Clay Shaw.
According to a declassified 1992 CIA document produced by the CIA's History Review Group, Clay Shaw was a "highly paid contract source" for the agency until 1956.
AFAIK, no one in the CIA has ever said that definition of Shaw was misleading, or in error.
If the CIA historian's description of Shaw is misleading, then the CIA should clarify it. That description of Shaw has been in the public record for 32 years, without correction.
If Bruce Solie was somehow involved in denting, or diverting the Garrison investigation into Shaw and LHO, I would like to know how.
Have you ever sought an official correction from the CIA, regarding their description of Shaw as a "highly paid contract source"?
If not, why not?
If so, what was the CIA response?
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FL-
That is the term used by the CIA historian to describe Clay Shaw.
According to a declassified 1992 CIA document produced by the CIA's History Review Group, Clay Shaw was a "highly paid contract source" for the agency until 1956.
AFAIK, no one in the CIA has ever said that definition of Shaw was misleading, or in error.
If the CIA historian's description of Shaw is misleading, then the CIA should clarify it. That description of Shaw has been in the public record for 32 years, without correction.
If Bruce Solie was somehow involved in denting, or diverting the Garrison investigation into Shaw and LHO, I would like to know how.
Have you ever sought an official correction from the CIA, regarding their description of Shaw as a "highly paid contract source"?
If not, why not?
If so, what was the CIA response?
Why would the CIA -- whose official position on Yuri Nosenko is that he was a true defector (LOL!) -- correct J. Kenneth McDonald's cobbled-together mischaracterization of Clay Shaw?
Factoid: Putative KGB staff officer Nosenko was "cleared" by Mole Solie in October 1968 via a bogus polygraph exam and a specious report.
All I know is that in 2021, renowned British JFKA researcher (and conspiracy theorist!!!) Malcolm Blunt said in that YouTube video you watched that Bruce Solie was "all over the Kennedy investigation and all over Clay Shaw for Jim Garrison."
Perhaps you can contact him through his colleague, Bart Kamp, at Kamp's "Prayer Man" website!
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If the official CIA definition of Clay Shaw, that he was a "highly paid confidential source," is in error, I would like the CIA to correct it.
In 32 years in the public record, the CIA has let that official description of Shaw stand.
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If the official CIA definition of Clay Shaw, that he was a "highly paid confidential source," is in error, I would like the CIA to correct it.
In 32 years in the public record, the CIA has let that official description of Shaw stand.
Bummer, dude.
Why don't you look into it?
BTW, I was editing my previous post when you posted, so here it is in toto for you:
Why would the CIA -- whose official position on false defector-in-place-in-Geneva-in-June-1962 / false-or-rogue-physical-defector-to-the-U.S.-in-February-1964 Yuri Nosenko is that he was a true defector -- correct J. Kenneth McDonald's cobbled-together, typo-replete mischaracterization of Clay Shaw?
Factoid: Putative KGB staff officer Nosenko was "cleared" by Mole Solie in October 1968 via a bogus polygraph exam and a specious report, and the FBI still maintains that KGB Major Aleksei Kulak (J. Edgar Hoover's shielded-from-CIA FEDORA) was truly spying for the Bureau's NYC field office for fifteen years!
All I know is that in September of 2021, renowned British JFKA researcher (and conspiracy theorist!!!) Malcolm Blunt said in that YouTube video you watched that Bruce Solie was "all over the Kennedy investigation and all over Clay Shaw for Jim Garrison."
Perhaps you can contact him through his colleague, Bart Kamp, at the "Prayer Man" website!
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Benjamin: That document was described Shaw as a highly paid contract source is an analysis of other documents, all of which are
online. There is no underlying document that uses that description and so we know it is an error. Paul Hoch has demonstrated that
there was another error in that document.
https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/was-clay-shaw-a-contract-agent-for-the-cia
(https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/was-clay-shaw-a-contract-agent-for-the-cia)
The 1992 memo was written by J. Kenneth McDonald, a CIA historian. Max Holland spoke with McDonald who told him:
“His recollection was that the memo was assembled from a couple of summaries that were prepared for him by the History Staff”
In an email Holland noted that "Unless someone can produce a document contemporaneous with Shaw's service as a domestic contact source that states he was well-remunerated or compensated, then I think whatever extant documents we have from his actual service trump a description in a summary that was prepared hastily."
And there are many documents in the JFK collection in which it is clearly stated that Shaw was NOT paid, and that he was just a domestic contact.
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https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-clay-shaw-get-the-help-he-deserved-part-three
(https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-clay-shaw-get-the-help-he-deserved-part-three)
Did Clay Shaw Get the Help He Deserved?, Part Three
In Part Three of my ten-part series, Clay Shaw's attorney Edward Wegmann goes to Washington to correct an error made by Attorney General Ramsey Clark.
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Keep up the great work on this, Fred. The research community needs to know the extent to which Garrison's "investigation" was a complete sham.
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https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-clay-shaw-get-the-help-he-deserved-part-four
(https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-clay-shaw-get-the-help-he-deserved-part-four)
Did Clay Shaw Get the Help He Deserved?, Part Four
In Part Four or my ten-part series, Jim Garrison goes after the CIA. The CIA sets up the Garrison Group to consider the implications of the Clay Shaw trial. They decide to do nothing to help Shaw's attorneys.
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https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-clay-shaw-get-the-help-he-deserved-part-five
(https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-clay-shaw-get-the-help-he-deserved-part-five)
Did Clay Shaw Get the Help He Deserved?, Part Five
In Part Five or my ten-part series, Shaw's attorneys go to Washington, D.C. to visit with the Department of Justice. They come away empty-handed.
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FL-
Have you uncovered any activity between Bruce Solie and the Garrison investigation?
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FL-
Have you uncovered any activity between Bruce Solie and the Garrison investigation?
I'm afraid Fred isn't interested in that sort of thing.
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Nothing about Solie. But that won't stop certain people from continually talking about him.
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https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-clay-shaw-get-the-help-he-deserved-part-five-1 (https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-clay-shaw-get-the-help-he-deserved-part-five-1)
Part Six of my series on Clay Shaw.
In this post, Shaw's attorneys file a civil rights complaint with the Department of Justice.
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https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-clay-shaw-get-the-help-he-deserved-part-seven
(https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-clay-shaw-get-the-help-he-deserved-part-seven)
Did Clay Shaw Get the Help He Deserved?, Part Seven
In Part Seven of my ten-part series, Shaw's attorneys file a 45-page-complaint in the U.S. District Court.
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https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-clay-shaw-get-the-help-he-deserved-part-eight
(https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-clay-shaw-get-the-help-he-deserved-part-eight)
Did Clay Shaw Get the Help He Deserved?, Part Eight
Clay Shaw was acquitted of conspiring to kill JFK in March of 1969. Garrison then charged Shaw with two counts of perjury. Nixon was now the President and there was a new team at the Department of Justice. So, Shaw's attorneys filed a new civil rights complaint.
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Before the first trial - the conspiracy charges - it's not clear to me how DOJ could have helped? Either legally or otherwise. And it seems from the memos that they, Clark/DOJ, weren't sure what Garrison had. Hoover dismissed him - correctly - as a crank and fraud. Which he was. But Clark and DOJ appeared to be confused; he comes through on the phone calls with LBJ as to not knowing what Garrison had. And LBJ was caught between the two sides.
Here's LBJ in a call with Connally (March 1,1969) on the Garrison investigation: "They [the FBI] have heard these things [about Ferrie], and they interviewed 'em back in, for the Warren Commission. They do not give them any credit to it, but we can't ever be sure, and we just want to keep watchin' and so on and so forth..."
Remarkably, Connally had initiated the call to tell LBJ that a reporter told him Garrison had evidence that "three four assassination teams" (he meant people) had been sent from Cuba to assassinate JFK. And that two of them were Oswald and Shaw. LBJ told him that there was nothing to it. As we look back we have to realize there were all kinds of wild rumors and stories coming out at that time about Garrison and the assassination, e.g., Pearson's stories.
*After* the acquittal I can see how legally they could have stepped in. I.e., Shaw's civil rights were being denied.
The above call between LBJ and JC is from Holland's "The Assassination Tapes":
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Steve: Actually the new Department of Justice, under Nixon, found the right statute to go after Garrison.
https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-clay-shaw-get-the-help-he-deserved-part-nine (https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-clay-shaw-get-the-help-he-deserved-part-nine)
For the first time, I have put online the Bonderman Memo. David Bonderman was a special assistant in the new Department of Justice under newly-elected president Richard Nixon. He reviewed Shaw's new civil rights complaint and he found a way to go after Garrison. Unfortunately, he decided they shouldn't.
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https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-clay-shaw-get-the-help-he-deserved-part-ten
(https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-clay-shaw-get-the-help-he-deserved-part-ten)
Did Clay Shaw Get the Help He Deserved?, Part Ten
In the last part of my ten-part series, I look at how a conspiracy author misuses documents to claim that Jim Garrison was obstructed and harassed.