JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate => Topic started by: Michael T. Griffith on October 16, 2025, 04:46:29 PM
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We have one person in this forum who actually believes that only two shots were fired during the assassination, period--two and only two. Until this morning when I read one of his replies, I assumed this person believed in the Howard Donahue version of the assassination, but he does not.
I am responding to his reply in a new thread in order to focus attention on this zany theory.
The fact there were only two shots has you confused about which shot did what? Really?
First of all, FYI, according to the official record, of the 178 witnesses who were asked about the number of shots they thought they heard and whose answers were documented in some way, 81% claimed they heard three shots, 12% claimed they heard two shots, 5% claimed they heard four or more shots, and 2% claimed they heard only one shot.
A number of the witnesses said two of the shots were fired almost simultaneously, and the acoustical evidence confirms this was the case.
M Griffith: Since you're obviously never going to address the facts about the alleged shooting feat, I would like to have you answer these three questions:
1. Are you saying that Oswald did not fire the head shot?
No, LHO did fire the shot. You know the second shot.
M Griffith: 2. If so, who fired the head shot?
Oswald
If Oswald fired the head shot, how do you explain the fact that the ammo that hit JFK's head behaved nothing like FMJ ammo?
Here's what Dr. Vincent DiMaio, one of the world's leading forensic experts, said about bullet fragmentation and FMJ bullets:
Dr. Vincent DiMaoi, considered one of the greatest experts on wound ballistics in the 20th and 21st centuries, said that FMJ bullets will not leave numerous fragments (a "snowstorm") inside a skull or inside another area with bone:
In x-rays of through-and-through gunshot wounds, the presence of small fragments of metal along the wound track virtually rules out full metal-jacketed ammunition.. . . In rare instances, involving full metal-jacketed centerfire rifle bullets, a few small, dust-like fragments of lead may be seen on x-ray if the bullet perforates bone. One of the most characteristic x-rays and one that will indicate the type of weapon and ammunition used is that seen from centerfire rifles firing hunting ammunition. In such a case, one will see a “lead snowstorm” [Figure 11.4]. In high-quality x-rays, the majority of the fragments visualized have a fine “dust-like” quality. Such a picture rules out full metal-jacketed rifle ammunition or a shotgun slug. (Gunshot Wounds, CRC Press, Boca Raton, 1999, p. 318, emphasis added).
JFK's skull x-rays show a cluster of some 40 small fragments in the right-frontal area, which rules out FMJ ammo.
And how do you account for the small fragments on the rear outer table of JFK's skull seen on the autopsy skull x-rays, which fragments are at least 3 inches above the rear head entry wound and 1 cm below the debunked cowlick entry site? These fragments could only be ricochet fragments from the missed shot that hit the pavement near the limo early in the shooting.
M Griffith: 3. How do you account for the bullet/fragment that struck the curb near James Tague, the bullet that burrowed into the grass near the south Elm Street manhole cover, and the bullet that made the Aldredge curb scar?
No need. You have proof that these are somehow connected to the carcano and LHO?
You're kidding, right? The Tague curb was hit and Tague was wounded in the cheek during the shooting. We have contemporaneous testimony from a police officer regarding the bullet hole in the curb.
The bullet that hit the grass near the south Elm Street manhole cover was seen to hit the grass during the shooting. Dallas policeman J. W. Foster, positioned on top of the triple underpass, saw the bullet strike the grass on the south side of Elm Street near the manhole cover. He radioed his superior to report it and was instructed to guard the area.
Have you ever seen a bullet hit grass? I have. It's easy to spot. The bullet kicks up dirt and burrows into the grass. Again, Foster spotted this, radioed it in, and was told to guard the impact area.
Journalists and bystanders were kept at a distance from the spot where the bullet landed. We have photos of an unidentified blond-haired man in a suit bending down, reaching out his left hand toward the dug-out point on the ground as if to pick up something, standing back up, cupping his left hand as if holding something, and then putting his hand in his pocket.
Contemporary press accounts reported that a bullet was retrieved from the dug-out hole in the grass near the manhole cover. For example, the Fort Worth Star-Telegram published a photo of the hole in the grass and said in the photo's caption that a bullet hit the grass:
One of the rifle bullets fired by the murderer of President Kennedy lies in the grass across Elm Street. . . .
The next day the Dallas Times Herald, in referring to the hole in the grass, reported:
Dallas Police Lt. J. C. Day of the crime lab estimated the distance from the sixth-floor window . . . to the spot where one of the bullets was recovered at 100 yards.
Newsman Richard Dudman said the following about this miss and the recovered bullet in the 12/21/63 issue of the New Republic:
On the day the President was shot I happened to learn of a possible fifth [bullet]. A group of police officers were examining the area at the side of the street where the President was hit, and a police inspector told me they had just found another bullet in the grass.
Officer Foster also reported that a bullet struck the concrete part of the manhole cover. It is not known if this was the same missile that made the dug-out hole in the grass a few feet from the manhole cover. The bullet might have skipped off the manhole cover and then imbedded itself in the grass. Or, the mark on the concrete could have been made by a separate bullet, and thus would represent another miss fired from the same approximate location. The sewer cover and the hole in the turf were about 3-5 feet apart, and the latter was farther down the side of Elm Street (that is, it was slightly farther away from the TSBD than was the sewer cover).
About two and a half hours after the shooting, Dealey Plaza witness John Martin came across the mark on the manhole cover. He immediately identified it as a bullet mark. He then told a policeman, "you better get your boss down here to check this thing out, because that will show where the bullet came from."
I should add that five witnesses saw a bullet strike the pavement on Elm Street near the right rear of the limousine shortly after the limo turned onto Elm Street. Witnesses saw this bullet kick up concrete toward the car. Because of the credibility and force of the eyewitness accounts, even Gerald Posner acknowledges this miss.
I should also add that among the files released by the ARRB between 1994 and 1996 was an FBI evidence envelope (FBI Field Office Dallas 89-43-1A-122). Although the envelope was empty, the cover stated that it had contained a 7.65 mm rifle shell that had been found in Dealey Plaza after the shooting. The envelope is dated 2 December 1963, so the shell was found sometime between 11/22/63 and 12/2/63. Nothing was known about the discovery of this shell until the FBI evidence envelope was released along with other assassination-related files. It is a severe stretch to assume that someone just innocently left a 7.65 mm bullet shell in the downtown plaza of a major city.
M Griffith: I just want to be clear on your position. I've been assuming you follow the Howard Donahue scenario, but I want to be certain that is the case.
HUH? There were two shots and you are struggling as to which shot is which? There is this film called the Zapruder Film you can watch that should help.
M Griffith: “Yes, CE 543, the dented shell, could not have been used to fire a bullet on 11/22/63, but this does not prove that only two shots were fired during the assassination.”
You aren’t clear on this? Really? You can’t put this together? SBT and the headshot. Why is that so hard for you? I know because it completely unravels your whole little conspiracy show. It is really hard to have this fantasy conspiracy if there were just the two shots.[/quote]
This zany version of the shooting puts you in an even smaller fringe of the lone-assassin camp than I thought you were. In fact, I can't think of any other person in the lone-gunman camp who believes that only two shots were fired during the assassination. If anyone else thinks this, please speak up.
BTW, the Zapruder film shows reactions to six shots, which is surely one of the reasons the film was suppressed for so long:
"Reactions to Six Shots in the Zapruder Film"
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nnp3Vch_KMOB_qufAhlQOCLTTS9jqNV0/view
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There is a book about this theory called "A Simple Act Of Murder". It was written by a homicide detective from Los Angeles.
Fred
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There is a book about this theory called "A Simple Act Of Murder". It was written by a homicide detective from Los Angeles. Fred
Oh my heavens. Are you actually citing the book written by the disgraced, racist, confessed LAPD evidence planter, former LAPD homicide detective Mark Fuhrman? Fuhrman knows next to nothing about the JFK case, as his book makes painfully obvious.
That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if Jack Nessan has been relying on Fuhrman's comical book. It would explain a lot.
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Oh my heavens. Are you actually citing the book written by the disgraced, racist, confessed LAPD evidence planter, former LAPD homicide detective Mark Fuhrman? Fuhrman knows next to nothing about the JFK case, as his book makes painfully obvious.
That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if Jack Nessan has been relying on Fuhrman's comical book. It would explain a lot.
Oh my heavens. Are you actually citing the book written by the disgraced, racist, confessed LAPD evidence planter, former LAPD homicide detective Mark Fuhrman? Fuhrman knows next to nothing about the JFK case, as his book makes painfully obvious.
It didn’t stop you. Your post prove it is painfully obvious you have nothing but conjecture and no substance.
That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if Jack Nessan has been relying on Fuhrman's comical book. It would explain a lot.
I did not know he had written a book on the subject or have forgotten he had done so. Everything you encounter seems to be a surprise. You spend your days rattling on about the JFK assassination conspiracy and provide nothing but gossip and hearsay.
It is really simple. Two shots are LHO is the assassin. As you repeatedly prove every time you post this nonsense, there is no proof of a third shot.
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We have one person in this forum who actually believes that only two shots were fired during the assassination, period--two and only two. Until this morning when I read one of his replies, I assumed this person believed in the Howard Donahue version of the assassination, but he does not.
I am responding to his reply in a new thread in order to focus attention on this zany theory.
First of all, FYI, according to the official record, of the 178 witnesses who were asked about the number of shots they thought they heard and whose answers were documented in some way, 81% claimed they heard three shots, 12% claimed they heard two shots, 5% claimed they heard four or more shots, and 2% claimed they heard only one shot.
A number of the witnesses said two of the shots were fired almost simultaneously, and the acoustical evidence confirms this was the case.
If Oswald fired the head shot, how do you explain the fact that the ammo that hit JFK's head behaved nothing like FMJ ammo?
Here's what Dr. Vincent DiMaio, one of the world's leading forensic experts, said about bullet fragmentation and FMJ bullets:
Dr. Vincent DiMaoi, considered one of the greatest experts on wound ballistics in the 20th and 21st centuries, said that FMJ bullets will not leave numerous fragments (a "snowstorm") inside a skull or inside another area with bone:
In x-rays of through-and-through gunshot wounds, the presence of small fragments of metal along the wound track virtually rules out full metal-jacketed ammunition.. . . In rare instances, involving full metal-jacketed centerfire rifle bullets, a few small, dust-like fragments of lead may be seen on x-ray if the bullet perforates bone. One of the most characteristic x-rays and one that will indicate the type of weapon and ammunition used is that seen from centerfire rifles firing hunting ammunition. In such a case, one will see a “lead snowstorm” [Figure 11.4]. In high-quality x-rays, the majority of the fragments visualized have a fine “dust-like” quality. Such a picture rules out full metal-jacketed rifle ammunition or a shotgun slug. (Gunshot Wounds, CRC Press, Boca Raton, 1999, p. 318, emphasis added).
JFK's skull x-rays show a cluster of some 40 small fragments in the right-frontal area, which rules out FMJ ammo.
And how do you account for the small fragments on the rear outer table of JFK's skull seen on the autopsy skull x-rays, which fragments are at least 3 inches above the rear head entry wound and 1 cm below the debunked cowlick entry site? These fragments could only be ricochet fragments from the missed shot that hit the pavement near the limo early in the shooting.
You're kidding, right? The Tague curb was hit and Tague was wounded in the cheek during the shooting. We have contemporaneous testimony from a police officer regarding the bullet hole in the curb.
The bullet that hit the grass near the south Elm Street manhole cover was seen to hit the grass during the shooting. Dallas policeman J. W. Foster, positioned on top of the triple underpass, saw the bullet strike the grass on the south side of Elm Street near the manhole cover. He radioed his superior to report it and was instructed to guard the area.
Have you ever seen a bullet hit grass? I have. It's easy to spot. The bullet kicks up dirt and burrows into the grass. Again, Foster spotted this, radioed it in, and was told to guard the impact area.
Journalists and bystanders were kept at a distance from the spot where the bullet landed. We have photos of an unidentified blond-haired man in a suit bending down, reaching out his left hand toward the dug-out point on the ground as if to pick up something, standing back up, cupping his left hand as if holding something, and then putting his hand in his pocket.
Contemporary press accounts reported that a bullet was retrieved from the dug-out hole in the grass near the manhole cover. For example, the Fort Worth Star-Telegram published a photo of the hole in the grass and said in the photo's caption that a bullet hit the grass:
One of the rifle bullets fired by the murderer of President Kennedy lies in the grass across Elm Street. . . .
The next day the Dallas Times Herald, in referring to the hole in the grass, reported:
Dallas Police Lt. J. C. Day of the crime lab estimated the distance from the sixth-floor window . . . to the spot where one of the bullets was recovered at 100 yards.
Newsman Richard Dudman said the following about this miss and the recovered bullet in the 12/21/63 issue of the New Republic:
On the day the President was shot I happened to learn of a possible fifth [bullet]. A group of police officers were examining the area at the side of the street where the President was hit, and a police inspector told me they had just found another bullet in the grass.
Officer Foster also reported that a bullet struck the concrete part of the manhole cover. It is not known if this was the same missile that made the dug-out hole in the grass a few feet from the manhole cover. The bullet might have skipped off the manhole cover and then imbedded itself in the grass. Or, the mark on the concrete could have been made by a separate bullet, and thus would represent another miss fired from the same approximate location. The sewer cover and the hole in the turf were about 3-5 feet apart, and the latter was farther down the side of Elm Street (that is, it was slightly farther away from the TSBD than was the sewer cover).
About two and a half hours after the shooting, Dealey Plaza witness John Martin came across the mark on the manhole cover. He immediately identified it as a bullet mark. He then told a policeman, "you better get your boss down here to check this thing out, because that will show where the bullet came from."
I should add that five witnesses saw a bullet strike the pavement on Elm Street near the right rear of the limousine shortly after the limo turned onto Elm Street. Witnesses saw this bullet kick up concrete toward the car. Because of the credibility and force of the eyewitness accounts, even Gerald Posner acknowledges this miss.
I should also add that among the files released by the ARRB between 1994 and 1996 was an FBI evidence envelope (FBI Field Office Dallas 89-43-1A-122). Although the envelope was empty, the cover stated that it had contained a 7.65 mm rifle shell that had been found in Dealey Plaza after the shooting. The envelope is dated 2 December 1963, so the shell was found sometime between 11/22/63 and 12/2/63. Nothing was known about the discovery of this shell until the FBI evidence envelope was released along with other assassination-related files. It is a severe stretch to assume that someone just innocently left a 7.65 mm bullet shell in the downtown plaza of a major city.
M Griffith: I just want to be clear on your position. I've been assuming you follow the Howard Donahue scenario, but I want to be certain that is the case.
HUH? There were two shots and you are struggling as to which shot is which? There is this film called the Zapruder Film you can watch that should help.
M Griffith: “Yes, CE 543, the dented shell, could not have been used to fire a bullet on 11/22/63, but this does not prove that only two shots were fired during the assassination.”
You aren’t clear on this? Really? You can’t put this together? SBT and the headshot. Why is that so hard for you? I know because it completely unravels your whole little conspiracy show. It is really hard to have this fantasy conspiracy if there were just the two shots.
This zany version of the shooting puts you in an even smaller fringe of the lone-assassin camp than I thought you were. In fact, I can't think of any other person in the lone-gunman camp who believes that only two shots were fired during the assassination. If anyone else thinks this, please speak up.
BTW, the Zapruder film shows reactions to six shots, which is surely one of the reasons the film was suppressed for so long:
"Reactions to Six Shots in the Zapruder Film"
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nnp3Vch_KMOB_qufAhlQOCLTTS9jqNV0/view
First of all, FYI, according to the official record, of the 178 witnesses who were asked about the number of shots they thought they heard and whose answers were documented in some way, 81% claimed they heard three shots, 12% claimed they heard two shots, 5% claimed they heard four or more shots, and 2% claimed they heard only one shot.
A number of the witnesses said two of the shots were fired almost simultaneously, and the acoustical evidence confirms this was the case.
There was no acoustical evidence at all. The almost simultaneous shots indicate two shots total. You remember the HSCA Sound Analysis conclusion --- the surprised witnesses...
The HSCA 178 witness figure seems to attract the weak minded. Nobody has a clue how that number is even derived.
The second shot was the headshot is a little more conservative than the analysis performed on Pat Speer’s website. Pat’s website would dramatically increase the number of second shot was the headshot. Just to help you understand the ramifications of it all. That would make the first shot SBT.
There are fewer three shot eyewitnesses in and around the car. So much for percentages.
The second shot headshot does not include all the witnesses who stated the last two shots sounded like one shot.
This is a partial list. These are all people who think there was only two shots fired during the assassination.
Two shot witnesses
Jackie, Nelly, Bill Newman, Gayle Newman, John Chism, Faye Chism, Jean Newman, Charles Brehm, Clint Hill, DPD Chaney, DPD Hargis, Sheriff Decker, Garland Slack, James Altgens, Malcolm Summers, Charles Roberts, BR Williams, Brennan, SA Greer, A Zapruder, Marilyn Sitzman, Charles Hester, Beatrice Hester, SA Glenn Bennet, Ann Donaldson, Peggy Burney, Dolores Kounas, Dave Powers, Kenneth O’Donnell, SA Landis, Ernest Brandt, James Powell, James Darnell, Hugh Betzner, Seth Kantor, Lupe Whitaker, F Lee Mudd, Ernest Brandt, Milton Wright, James Perry, JW foster, Clemon Johnson, Jack Franzen, Mrs Jack Franzen, Jeff Franzen, Ann Ruth Moore, Mary Hall, Toni Glover
Second shot was the headshot
James Jarmin, Harold Norman, SA Kellerman, Marilyn Willis, SA Kinney, SA Hickey, Mary Woodward, John Templin, Gov Connally, Mary Moorman, SA Emory Roberts, Hugh Aynesworth, Ruby Henderson, DPD Douglas Jackson, Jerry Kivett, Cliff Carter, Thomas Johns, June Dishong, Aurelia Alonzo, Margaret Brown, Georgia Ruth Hendrix, DPD JW Foster
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The bullet that hit the grass near the south Elm Street manhole cover was seen to hit the grass during the shooting. Dallas policeman J. W. Foster, positioned on top of the triple underpass, saw the bullet strike the grass on the south side of Elm Street near the manhole cover. He radioed his superior to report it and was instructed to guard the area.
Have you ever seen a bullet hit grass? I have. It's easy to spot. The bullet kicks up dirt and burrows into the grass. Again, Foster spotted this, radioed it in, and was told to guard the impact area.
Another Griffith red herring. JW Foster did not actually see anything.
Do you ever have evidence that actually is real?
Do you have anything else? Like real evidence. Something that actually exists.
JW Foster
Mr. FOSTER - No, a manhole cover. It was hit. they caught the manhole cover right on the corner and -
Mr. BALL - You saw a mark on the manhole cover did you?
Mr. FOSTER - Yes sir.
Mr. BALL - I show you a picture here of a concrete slab. or manhole cover. Do you recognize that picture?
Mr. FOSTER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - Does the picture show - tell me what it shows there.
Mr. FOSTER - This looks like the corner here where it penetrated the turf right here [indicating].
Mr. BALL - See any mark on the manhole cover?
Mr. FOSTER - No, sir; I don't. not on the - well, it is on the turf, on the concrete, right in the corner.
Mr. BALL - It was not on the manhole cover?
Mr. FOSTER - No, sir.
Mr. BALL - Went into the turf?
Mr. FOSTER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - Did you recover any bullet?
Mr. FOSTER - No, sir. It ricocheted on out.
Oh no, not another missing piece of fictional evidence.
Another whole Michael post of fiction, fantasy and lots of pseudo experts but no evidence to prove this oddball theory.
How about trot out the experts again that analyzed the faked autopsy XRays. That is one of my favorites.
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There is a book about this theory called "A Simple Act Of Murder". It was written by a homicide detective from Los Angeles.
That's not correct. Mark Fuhrman's 2006 book (https://simple-act-of-murder.blogspot.com) doesn't support a "2 Shots Only" theory.
You're thinking of the 2013 book "Phantom Shot" (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1492738956).
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Here is a DPD photo of the manhole apron that shows where a bullet struck in the corner of the apron. As you can see, debris (or turf if you prefer) has collected in that corner. The bullet penetrated the debris, struck the concrete apron below and ricocheted, and the exit hole can also be seen where the bullet “ricocheted on out”. I believe that Foster’s testimony makes perfect sense and that this photo shows what Foster described.
(https://i.vgy.me/zowLZb.png)
Close-up cropped view:
(https://i.vgy.me/S3CRT5.png)
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GC-
My recollection is that the manhole cover shot appeared to come from the direction of the TSBD or Dal-Tex buildings.
There has been something written to the effect a slug was found in the vicinity, but that remains controversial.
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My recollection is that the manhole cover shot appeared to come from the direction of the TSBD or Dal-Tex buildings.
There has been something written to the effect a slug was found in the vicinity, but that remains controversial.
The direction of the bullet holes in the debris on the corner of the manhole apron indicates it came from the direction of the TSBD and went towards the area where Tague was wounded.
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DPD JW Foster
3/24/64 FBI Affidavit
Patrolman FOSTER stated he was in a position directly above the south edge of Elm Street at the time the Presidential motorcade arrived. Just as the vehicle in which President KENNEDY was riding reached a point on Elm Street just east of the overpass, Patrolman FOSTER heard a noise that sounded like a large firecracker. He stated his attention was directed to President KENNEDY and he realized something was wrong because the movement of the President. Another report was heard by Patrolman FOSTER and at about the same time the report was heard, he observed the President's head appear to explode and immediately thereafter, he heard a third report which he knew was a shot. Patrolman FOSTER stated that because of the distance from the place where the shot appeared to come from, he felt the third shot struck President KENNEDY as he heard the sound of the second shot that was fired. He stated the shots sounded as if they came from the direction of the Texas School Book Depository Building, Houston and Elm Streets. Patrolman FOSTER stated he did not see where he shots came from or who fired them.
Foster stated the first shot hit JFK and he reacted; the second shot was the headshot. He then claims it maybe was the third shot. See the pattern. He clearly states the second shot was the headshot and then he adds the third shot to the narrative, and it does not really fit.
Medias influence. Can you understand what his statement would have been if he had not been told there were three shots instead of two.
What did the tests of the lead smear or bullet fragments indicate? Something must have been left behind if it ricocheted. Actually no, nothing at all, it was just his imagination
Officer Foster never saw a bullet strike a thing. He imagined it did because he thought there should have been one. He looked for a place that had a disturbance of some kind that he could claim was a bullet strike.
Mr. BALL - What did you do after that?
Mr. FOSTER - I moved to -down the roadway there, down to see if I could find where any of he shots hit.
Mr. BALL - Find anything?
Mr. FOSTER - Yes, sir. Found where one shot had hit the turf there at the location.
Mr. BALL - Hit the turf?
Mr. FOSTER - Yes, sir.
Mr Ball realizes it all BS. Just his imagination.
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DPD JW Foster
3/24/64 FBI Affidavit
Patrolman FOSTER stated he was in a position directly above the south edge of Elm Street at the time the Presidential motorcade arrived. Just as the vehicle in which President KENNEDY was riding reached a point on Elm Street just east of the overpass, Patrolman FOSTER heard a noise that sounded like a large firecracker. He stated his attention was directed to President KENNEDY and he realized something was wrong because the movement of the President. Another report was heard by Patrolman FOSTER and at about the same time the report was heard, he observed the President's head appear to explode and immediately thereafter, he heard a third report which he knew was a shot. Patrolman FOSTER stated that because of the distance from the place where the shot appeared to come from, he felt the third shot struck President KENNEDY as he heard the sound of the second shot that was fired. He stated the shots sounded as if they came from the direction of the Texas School Book Depository Building, Houston and Elm Streets. Patrolman FOSTER stated he did not see where he shots came from or who fired them.
Foster stated the first shot hit JFK and he reacted; the second shot was the headshot. He then claims it maybe was the third shot. See the pattern. He clearly states the second shot was the headshot and then he adds the third shot to the narrative, and it does not really fit.
Medias influence. Can you understand what his statement would have been if he had not been told there were three shots instead of two.
What did the tests of the lead smear or bullet fragments indicate? Something must have been left behind if it ricocheted. Actually no, nothing at all, it was just his imagination
Officer Foster never saw a bullet strike a thing. He imagined it did because he thought there should have been one. He looked for a place that had a disturbance of some kind that he could claim was a bullet strike.
Mr. BALL - What did you do after that?
Mr. FOSTER - I moved to -down the roadway there, down to see if I could find where any of he shots hit.
Mr. BALL - Find anything?
Mr. FOSTER - Yes, sir. Found where one shot had hit the turf there at the location.
Mr. BALL - Hit the turf?
Mr. FOSTER - Yes, sir.
Mr Ball realizes it all BS. Just his imagination.
What did the tests of the lead smear or bullet fragments indicate? Something must have been left behind if it ricocheted. Actually no, nothing at all, it was just his imagination
What tests? Do you have any evidence that indicates anyone investigated the manhole apron ricochet any further than just taking some photos? I know that the FBI later cut out a piece of the curb near where Tague was standing and tested it and found lead deposits and they could actually state that the direction that the shot came from was the TSBD. But as far as I am aware, no such testing was ever done to the manhole apron ricochet site. If anyone knows anything about any testing done on the manhole apron ricochet site, please let us know. I am “all ears”.
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I know that the FBI later cut out a piece of the curb near where Tague was standing and tested it and found lead deposits and they could actually state that the direction that the shot came from was the TSBD.
There was no lead found in that curb....in fact there was no mark...
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/pdf/WH21_Shaneyfelt_Ex_26.pdf
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https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/pdf/WH21_Shaneyfelt_Ex_27.pdf (https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/pdf/WH21_Shaneyfelt_Ex_27.pdf)
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https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/pdf/WH21_Shaneyfelt_Ex_27.pdf (https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/pdf/WH21_Shaneyfelt_Ex_27.pdf)
"Herb Huskr" at the "JFK Truth Be Told" Facebook page has shown that the chip and lead/antimony smear on the curb may have been caused by a bullet fragment from the Z-313 head shot.
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"Herb Huskr" at the "JFK Truth Be Told" Facebook page has shown that the chip and lead/antimony smear on the curb may have been caused by a bullet fragment from the Z-313 head shot.
I have never heard of Herb Huskr. However, at least one well respected researcher that I know also believes that idea. I think it is definitely a good possibility. I created a thread a while back titled “The Other Single Bullet Theory” that suggests it could have been an early shot that missed the limo. After ricocheting off of Main Street it hit the manhole apron then ricocheted again and hit the south curb on Main Street near where Tague was standing. It’s just an idea, but the evidence seems to me to be consistent with it.
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The direction of the bullet holes in the debris on the corner of the manhole apron indicates it came from the direction of the TSBD and went towards the area where Tague was wounded.
This is just nutty and ridiculous.
Officer Foster saw the bullet hit the grass and he radioed it in. Of course, WC apologists ignore his 11/22 radio transmission and rely on the changed story that he gave to the WC. They also ignore the 11/23 and 11/24 local press accounts of the bullet strike in the grass and of the recovery of a bullet from the grass.
What was the object that the agent in the suit reached down and picked up from the hole in the grass near the manhole cover? Huh? He reached down to the hole, then brought his hand up in cupping shape as if holding something, then put his hand in his pocket. What did he pick up? Dirt? No, he picked up a bullet, and everyone acknowledged this until it was realized that the miss and the recovered bullet did not fit the lone-gunman scenario.
Of course, we see the silly, long-debunked denials that a bullet hit the curb near Tague and sent a concrete or metal fragment streaking toward Tague to cut his face. Henry Hurt established back in the 1980s with the aid of construction experts that the hole in the Tague curb was patched. And, of course, there's also the fact that when Harold Weisberg sued to get access to the spectrographic plate of the curb hole sample, the FBI destroyed the plate, claiming a "lack of space." But the early evidence, before anyone knew what they were supposed to say, is clear that a bullet left an obvious bullet hole in the curb and that Tague was hit with a fragment from the bullet strike.
We just go around and around with these WC apologists. They won't admit anything. They repeat silly myths that were concocted to deny clear evidence of multiple gunmen. We have two clear cases of extra misses and an extra bullet that destroy the lone-gunman theory, but WC apologists will never admit it and will continue to float bogus theories to deny this evidence.
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This is just nutty and ridiculous.
Officer Foster saw the bullet hit the grass and he radioed it in. Of course, WC apologists ignore his 11/22 radio transmission and rely on the changed story that he gave to the WC. They also ignore the 11/23 and 11/24 local press accounts of the bullet strike in the grass and of the recovery of a bullet from the grass.
What was the object that the agent in the suit reached down and picked up from the hole in the grass near the manhole cover? Huh? He reached down to the hole, then brought his hand up in cupping shape as if holding something, then put his hand in his pocket. What did he pick up? Dirt? No, he picked up a bullet, and everyone acknowledged this until it was realized that the miss and the recovered bullet did not fit the lone-gunman scenario.
Of course, we see the silly, long-debunked denials that a bullet hit the curb near Tague and sent a concrete or metal fragment streaking toward Tague to cut his face. Henry Hurt established back in the 1980s with the aid of construction experts that the hole in the Tague curb was patched. And, of course, there's also the fact that when Harold Weisberg sued to get access to the spectrographic plate of the curb hole sample, the FBI destroyed the plate, claiming a "lack of space." But the early evidence, before anyone knew what they were supposed to say, is clear that a bullet left an obvious bullet hole in the curb and that Tague was hit with a fragment from the bullet strike.
We just go around and around with these WC apologists. They won't admit anything. They repeat silly myths that were concocted to deny clear evidence of multiple gunmen. We have two clear cases of extra misses and an extra bullet that destroy the lone-gunman theory, but WC apologists will never admit it and will continue to float bogus theories to deny this evidence.
Please cite any evidence of the radio transmission by Foster you claim he made.
Also, here is a snippet from “Reclaiming History” by Vincent Bugliosi, page 3600-3601:
Walther’s Warren Commission testimony and later statements were corroborated by what Dallas patrolman J. W. Foster told the Warren Commission in 1964. Asked, “Did you recover any bullet?” Foster replied, “No, sir. It ricocheted on out” (6 H 252; see also Sneed, No More Silence, pp.212–213). In fact, it was Foster who provided the most lucid account of what happened, in a 1987 interview with interviewer Larry Sneed. “The plaza had been freshly mowed the day before,” Foster said, “thus I noticed this clump of sod that was laying there and was trying to find out what caused that clump of grass to be there. That’s when I found where the bullet had struck the concrete skirt by the manhole cover and knocked that clump of grass up. Buddy Walthers, one of the sheriff’s deputies, came up and talked to me about it, and we discussed the direction from which the bullet had come. It struck the skirt near the manhole cover and then hit this person [a reference to eyewitness James Tague] who had stood by the column over on Commerce Street. He came by and had a cut on his face where the bullet had struck the column. You could see about where the bullet had come from by checking the angle where it scraped across the concrete and the column where it struck the pedestrian. It appeared to have come from the northeast, approximately from the book store area, but we were never able to find the slug . . . I contacted my sergeant, C.F. Williams. He told me to remain there until they got down there and had some pictures taken, which they did.” (Sneed, No More Silence, pp.212–213)
Plus some of the photos clearly show the direction of the bullet’s trajectory.