JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate => Topic started by: Michael T. Griffith on September 07, 2025, 12:50:58 PM
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In any complex operation that requires a large-scale cover-up, unwanted information, and even highly damaging information, will often slip out here and there. This is what happened when Deputy Sheriff Luke Mooney testified before the Warren Commission (WC).
The WC established that Mooney was the first law enforcement officer to go to the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD) after the shooting, and that Mooney was the officer who discovered the sixth-floor “sniper’s nest.” Mooney headed up the stairs from the second floor to the sixth floor at no later than 12:50. No federal or local law enforcement officers were on any of the upper floors of the building between 12:35 and 1:10.
Not realizing the implications of what he was about to say, Mooney dropped the bombshell during his WC testimony that on his way up the stairs from the second floor to the sixth floor, he encountered two men in plain clothes coming down the stairs (3 H 284). Mooney did not recognize them, but he said he assumed they were fellow deputy sheriffs in plain clothes.
The two men on the stairs could not have been law enforcement officers of any kind (and they could not have been William Shelley and Billy Lovelady). They may well have been the same two men whom Officer D. V. Harkness encountered minutes later on the TSBD’s north loading dock by the rear door. The men falsely told Harkness they were Secret Service agents, so he did not question them (6 H 312; Dallas Morning News, August 27, 1978; Sylvia Meagher, Accessories After the Fact, p. 26; Henry Hurt, Reasonable Doubt, pp. 110-111). Of course, they could not have been Secret Service agents. The HSCA established that no Secret Service agents were in Dealey Plaza after the motorcade left the plaza.
The two men on the stairs were likely the men who were moving boxes around in the sixth-floor window within two minutes of the shooting. The HSCA’s photographic experts established that two photos taken of the sniper’s window, one taken moments after the shooting and the other taken about two minutes later, show that someone was rearranging boxes in the window during this timeframe (6 HSCA 109-115; 4 HSCA 422-423).
Obviously, Oswald could not have been in the sniper’s nest during that time, so he could not have been rearranging boxes in that time span. He would have had to be hiding the rifle and then running down the stairs rapidly enough to get beyond the second-floor foyer door allegedly to be seen by Officer Marrion Baker 75-90 seconds after the shooting.
For an exhaustive analysis of the photographic evidence that boxes were being rearranged in the sniper’s nest within two minutes of the shooting, see Barry Krusch’s detailed chapter on the subject in his book Impossible: The Case Against Lee Harvey Oswald, Volume Three (pp. 28-69).
We can pin down the timing of Mooney’s movements with a high degree of certainty. When Mooney found the sniper’s nest, he leaned out the sniper’s window at 1:00 to yell down to Captain Will Fritz and told him he had found the TSBD gunman’s location and to get crime lab people to the sixth floor. About 10 minutes later, Lt. J. C. Day and Detective R. L. Studebaker arrived on the sixth floor. Before this occurred, Mooney briefly scanned the sixth floor, then went to the seventh floor, then got two other law enforcement officers to come with him back to the sixth floor. Given Mooney’s movements before he yelled out the window to Fritz, he must have been heading up the stairs to the sixth floor no later than 12:50, and more likely several minutes earlier.
You might be wondering how the WC counsel who was questioning Mooney, Joseph Ball, reacted when Mooney dropped the bombshell about encountering two plain clothes deputy sheriffs heading down the stairs. Incredibly, Ball ignored the information and asked no questions about the two men, and the WC made no effort to determine the identity of the two men.
And, not surprisingly, WC apologists have virtually ignored Mooney’s bombshell disclosure.
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In any complex operation that requires a large-scale cover-up, unwanted information, and even highly damaging information, will often slip out here and there. This is what happened when Deputy Sheriff Luke Mooney testified before the Warren Commission (WC).
The WC established that Mooney was the first law enforcement officer to go to the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD) after the shooting, and that Mooney was the officer who discovered the sixth-floor “sniper’s nest.” Mooney headed up the stairs from the second floor to the sixth floor at no later than 12:50. No federal or local law enforcement officers were on any of the upper floors of the building between 12:35 and 1:10.
Not realizing the implications of what he was about to say, Mooney dropped the bombshell during his WC testimony that on his way up the stairs from the second floor to the sixth floor, he encountered two men in plain clothes coming down the stairs (3 H 284). Mooney did not recognize them, but he said he assumed they were fellow deputy sheriffs in plain clothes.
The two men on the stairs could not have been law enforcement officers of any kind (and they could not have been William Shelley and Billy Lovelady). They may well have been the same two men whom Officer D. V. Harkness encountered minutes later on the TSBD’s north loading dock by the rear door. The men falsely told Harkness they were Secret Service agents, so he did not question them (6 H 312; Dallas Morning News, August 27, 1978; Sylvia Meagher, Accessories After the Fact, p. 26; Henry Hurt, Reasonable Doubt, pp. 110-111). Of course, they could not have been Secret Service agents. The HSCA established that no Secret Service agents were in Dealey Plaza after the motorcade left the plaza.
The two men on the stairs were likely the men who were moving boxes around in the sixth-floor window within two minutes of the shooting. The HSCA’s photographic experts established that two photos taken of the sniper’s window, one taken moments after the shooting and the other taken about two minutes later, show that someone was rearranging boxes in the window during this timeframe (6 HSCA 109-115; 4 HSCA 422-423).
Obviously, Oswald could not have been in the sniper’s nest during that time, so he could not have been rearranging boxes in that time span. He would have had to be hiding the rifle and then running down the stairs rapidly enough to get beyond the second-floor foyer door allegedly to be seen by Officer Marrion Baker 75-90 seconds after the shooting.
For an exhaustive analysis of the photographic evidence that boxes were being rearranged in the sniper’s nest within two minutes of the shooting, see Barry Krusch’s detailed chapter on the subject in his book Impossible: The Case Against Lee Harvey Oswald, Volume Three (pp. 28-69).
We can pin down the timing of Mooney’s movements with a high degree of certainty. When Mooney found the sniper’s nest, he leaned out the sniper’s window at 1:00 to yell down to Captain Will Fritz and told him he had found the TSBD gunman’s location and to get crime lab people to the sixth floor. About 10 minutes later, Lt. J. C. Day and Detective R. L. Studebaker arrived on the sixth floor. Before this occurred, Mooney briefly scanned the sixth floor, then went to the seventh floor, then got two other law enforcement officers to come with him back to the sixth floor. Given Mooney’s movements before he yelled out the window to Fritz, he must have been heading up the stairs to the sixth floor no later than 12:50, and more likely several minutes earlier.
You might be wondering how the WC counsel who was questioning Mooney, Joseph Ball, reacted when Mooney dropped the bombshell about encountering two plain clothes deputy sheriffs heading down the stairs. Incredibly, Ball ignored the information and asked no questions about the two men, and the WC made no effort to determine the identity of the two men.
And, not surprisingly, WC apologists have virtually ignored Mooney’s bombshell disclosure.
Dear Comrade Griffith,
Whoever they were, they must have been from the evil, evil CIA or the evil, evil CIA-affiliated Mafia!!!
-- Tom
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How long after the Kill Shot did Officer Luke Mooney encounter the, "2 Men On The Stairs"? Mooney said in his WC Testimony that he and 2 other deputies walked through the "Wide Open" Gates, they then CLOSED those Gates, and then entered the TSBD 1st floor and began heading up toward the 7th Floor. The Martin Film shows Amos Euins on the back of DPD Sgt. Harkness 3 Wheel Motorcycle as they race down the Elm St Ext. Those same Gates are visible in the background. I believe we are seeing that those Gates are CLOSED. With these being the same gates that Officer Mooney physically Closed, means that at this point in time Officer Mooney is inside the TSBD. Sgt Harkness made a 12:36 DPD radio transmission that he had a witness that saw shots being fired from the TSBD. Harkness was instructed to bring the witness to the front of the TSBD. This witness was Amos Euins and Harkness immediately brought Euins to the front of the TSBD on the back of his 3 wheel motorcycle, which we see on the Martin Film. With Harkness making that 12:36 DPD radio transmission, (Harkness verified making this DPD radio transmission during his WC Testimony), we are probably seeing Euins and those Closed Gates at roughly 12:38 - 12:39 on the Martin Film. This also means that Mooney was already inside the TSBD at this same point in time. I would estimate that Harkness saw those 2 men on the stairwell at roughly 12 minutes after the Kill Shot.
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How long after the Kill Shot did Officer Luke Mooney encounter the, "2 Men On The Stairs"? Mooney said in his WC Testimony that he and 2 other deputies walked through the "Wide Open" Gates, they then CLOSED those Gates, and then entered the TSBD 1st floor and began heading up toward the 7th Floor. The Martin Film shows Amos Euins on the back of DPD Sgt. Harkness 3 Wheel Motorcycle as they race down the Elm St Ext. Those same Gates are visible in the background. I believe we are seeing that those Gates are CLOSED. With these being the same gates that Officer Mooney physically Closed, means that at this point in time Officer Mooney is inside the TSBD. Sgt Harkness made a 12:36 DPD radio transmission that he had a witness that saw shots being fired from the TSBD. Harkness was instructed to bring the witness to the front of the TSBD. This witness was Amos Euins and Harkness immediately brought Euins to the front of the TSBD on the back of his 3 wheel motorcycle, which we see on the Martin Film. With Harkness making that 12:36 DPD radio transmission, (Harkness verified making this DPD radio transmission during his WC Testimony), we are probably seeing Euins and those Closed Gates at roughly 12:38 - 12:39 on the Martin Film. This also means that Mooney was already inside the TSBD at this same point in time. I would estimate that Harkness saw those 2 men on the stairwell at roughly 12 minutes after the Kill Shot.
As I state in the OP, Mooney was heading up the stairs from the second floor to the sixth floor no later than 12:50 and probably several minutes earlier. The two men could not have been law enforcements of any kind and no TSBD employees were identified as having come down the stairs during that time period.
Judging from Mooney's description of "plain clothes," the two men were apparently in suits or at least in a shirt and tie, since that was the dress code for plain clothes deputy sheriffs and police detectives. If they had been dressed as common laborers, Mooney would not have assumed they were plain clothes deputy sheriffs.
Dear Comrade Griffith, Whoever they were, they must have been from the evil, evil CIA or the evil, evil CIA-affiliated Mafia!!! -- Tom
As expected, your only response to serious evidence is to offer more of your juvenile silliness.
You tell me: Since we know there were no Secret Service agents in Dealey Plaza after the shooting, who were the two men in suits in the back of the TSBD who told Harkness they were Secret Service agents? Who was the man on the grassy knoll who told Officer Smith he was a Secret Service agent and even showed a fake SS ID? Who were the two men coming down the stairs who were dressed nicely enough that Mooney thought they were plain clothes deputy sheriffs?
And who was moving boxes around in the sniper's next within two minutes of the shooting? Surely even you know enough to know that it could not have been Oswald.
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As I state in the OP, Mooney was heading up the stairs from the second floor to the sixth floor no later than 12:50 and probably several minutes earlier. The two men could not have been law enforcements of any kind and no TSBD employees were identified as having come down the stairs during that time period.
Judging from Mooney's description of "plain clothes," the two men were apparently in suits or at least in a shirt and tie, since that was the dress code for plain clothes deputy sheriffs and police detectives. If they had been dressed as common laborers, Mooney would not have assumed they were plain clothes deputy sheriffs.
As expected, your only response to serious evidence is to offer more of your juvenile silliness.
You tell me: Since we know there were no Secret Service agents in Dealey Plaza after the shooting, who were the two men in suits in the back of the TSBD who told Harkness they were Secret Service agents? Who was the man on the grassy knoll who told Officer Smith he was a Secret Service agent and even showed a fake SS ID? Who were the two men coming down the stairs who were dressed nicely enough that Mooney thought they were plain clothes deputy sheriffs?
And who was moving boxes around in the sniper's next within two minutes of the shooting? Surely even you know enough to know that it could not have been Oswald.
I would Not go as far as to say, "..could not have been law enforcements of any kind...". During his WC Testimony, Mooney detailed his encountering 2 women prior to his boarding the "Freight Elevator" to go up to the 7th floor. These women worked inside the TSBD and went up with Mooney on the freight elevator. Point is, there were people such as these women inside the TSBD during this time period. Therefore, it is "possible" that a couple of plain clothes cops entered the building and went up into the TSBD before these women entered the building. Mooney detailed that the power went out while he was on the freight elevator with these 2 women. Mooney then took these women to their office, made sure their office was secure, and then he took the "Stairs" Up to the 7th floor. This is when Mooney saw the 2 suits on the stairwell. If you can pin down when the power went out inside the TSBD, you would have a fairly good idea as to when Mooney saw these 2 suits coming down the stairwell.
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I would Not go as far as to say, "..could not have been law enforcements of any kind...". During his WC Testimony, Mooney detailed his encountering 2 women prior to his boarding the "Freight Elevator" to go up to the 7th floor. These women worked inside the TSBD and went up with Mooney on the freight elevator. Point is, there were people such as these women inside the TSBD during this time period. Therefore, it is "possible" that a couple of plain clothes cops entered the building and went up into the TSBD before these women entered the building.
I don't see how Mooney's seeing the two women before boarding the elevator means it is possible that two plain clothes law enforcement officers entered the building and went upstairs before Mooney got on the stairs. None of the law officers interviewed by the WC said they were in the building during that time. The WC went to considerable lengths to determine if Mooney was the first one on the sixth floor after the shooting. Baker did not go to the sixth floor after he allegedly encountered Oswald.
Another point: Mooney had been on the sheriff's force for nearly six years but did not recognize the two men on the stairs.
Mooney detailed that the power went out while he was on the freight elevator with these 2 women. Mooney then took these women to their office, made sure their office was secure, and then he took the "Stairs" Up to the 7th floor. This is when Mooney saw the 2 suits on the stairwell. If you can pin down when the power went out inside the TSBD, you would have a fairly good idea as to when Mooney saw these 2 suits coming down the stairwell.
We already have an almost exact time for when Mooney was on the stairs. Barry Krusch discusses this in volume 3 of Impossible: The Case Against Lee Harvey Oswald. We know that it was 1:00 PM, give or take a minute, when Mooney yelled down to Fritz from the sixth-floor window and told him to get some crime-scene officers up to the sixth floor. We know that Day and Studebaker arrived at right around 1:10. Making reasonable allowances for the actions that Mooney performed before he yelled down to Fritz would put him on the stairs no later than 12:50 and probably several minutes earlier.
Oswald could not have been the one moving boxes around in the sniper's nest within two minutes of the shooting.
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The main thing I do not like about the 2 men in suits is that Officer Mooney did not describe either of them wearing a hat. I do not recall seeing images of anyone connected to DPD wearing a suit and Not wearing a hat of some kind. Deputy Roger Craig was Not wearing a hat in the Darnell Film, but he was Off Duty that day. To me, both of these guys wearing No Hat is a serious concern.
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The main thing I do not like about the 2 men in suits is that Officer Mooney did not describe either of them wearing a hat. I do not recall seeing images of anyone connected to DPD wearing a suit and Not wearing a hat of some kind. Deputy Roger Craig was Not wearing a hat in the Darnell Film, but he was Off Duty that day. To me, both of these guys wearing No Hat is a serious concern.
I think the fact that he assumed they were plain clothes deputy sheriffs implies they were dressed in accordance with the sheriff department's dress code. He never got a chance to give any description of their clothing or to explain why he assumed they were plain clothes deputy sheriffs because Ball, incredibly enough, ignored his startling statement and did not ask any questions about the two men.
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I think the fact that he assumed they were plain clothes deputy sheriffs implies they were dressed in accordance with the sheriff department's dress code. He never got a chance to give any description of their clothing or to explain why he assumed they were plain clothes deputy sheriffs because Ball, incredibly enough, ignored his startling statement and did not ask any questions about the two men.
The key here is knowing exactly when did the TSBD power go out and prevent Mooney from using the freight elevator beyond the 2nd floor? Knowing this would timeline Mooney and those 2 "plain clothes" guys that he encountered coming DOWN the stairwell. It is hard to believe these 2 possible Sheriffs could have entered and gone up into the TSBD and actually investigated anything within roughly 10 minutes after the Kill Shot.
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The key here is knowing exactly when did the TSBD power go out and prevent Mooney from using the freight elevator beyond the 2nd floor? Knowing this would timeline Mooney and those 2 "plain clothes" guys that he encountered coming DOWN the stairwell. It is hard to believe these 2 possible Sheriffs could have entered and gone up into the TSBD and actually investigated anything within roughly 10 minutes after the Kill Shot.
And that's the rub: There just doesn't seem to be a plausible innocent explanation for two well-dressed men coming down the stairs at 12:40-12:50. They obviously were not common laborers or else Mooney would not have assumed they were plain clothes law officers. The WC went of its way to establish that Mooney was the first law officer on the sixth floor. Yet, Ball simply ignored Mooney's account of two law officers on the stairs at a time when none were there and when none should have been there, and the Commission showed no interest in Harkness's encounter at the rear of the TSBD with men who claimed they were Secret Service agents.
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And that's the rub: There just doesn't seem to be a plausible innocent explanation for two well-dressed men coming down the stairs at 12:40-12:50. They obviously were not common laborers or else Mooney would not have assumed they were plain clothes law officers. The WC went of its way to establish that Mooney was the first law officer on the sixth floor. Yet, Ball simply ignored Mooney's account of two law officers on the stairs at a time when none were there and when none should have been there, and the Commission showed no interest in Harkness's encounter at the rear of the TSBD with men who claimed they were Secret Service agents.
Don't forget that Mooney entered the TSBD with 2 other deputies. And they were ahead of Mooney as he helped those 2 women safely get to their 2nd Floor office due to the power being out. So there is at least Mooney and his 2 deputy buddies + Officer Baker inside the TSBD. The fact the 2 guys in question were heading DOWN is a reason for concern. I do wonder how Mooney SAW these 2 Men on the stairwell if the power was still out. And I am assuming the power was still out or Mooney would have used the freight elevator as he originally did. With the power out, that stairwell should have been as dark as a hole.
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Didn't Vicky Adams say that she passed two men sitting down between the freight elevators and the door out onto the North loading Dock?
Her and Sandra Styles had come down to the north loading Dock to look around the rail yard but were sent back in by a cop. She had never seen the men before.
And wasn't the electrical distribution board there?
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I think the fact that he assumed they were plain clothes deputy sheriffs implies they were dressed in accordance with the sheriff department's dress code. He never got a chance to give any description of their clothing or to explain why he assumed they were plain clothes deputy sheriffs because Ball, incredibly enough, ignored his startling statement and did not ask any questions about the two men.
"Plain clothes" can mean a lot of different things. Anybody not wearing a cop uniform might be considered to be wearing "plain clothes". "Plain clothes" could be a suit, or a sports shirt, etc. Officer Mooney was Not wearing a uniform that day. This is probably why Mooney thought these guys were "deputy sheriffs". Their attire was similar to what he was wearing.
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MTG--
You make an excellent post, and yet by your own narrative Deputy Sheriff Luke Mooney was ascending the stairs in the TSBD ~12:50 pm, about 20 minutes after the JFKA.
Mooney says he passed by "two men in plain clothes," somewhere between the 2nd and 6th floor.
There were publisher's offices on TSBD floors 2 through 4 with execs and sales-men. They would typically wear office business attire of the day, which was suit and tie.
I find it hard to fathom that JFKA perps would hang around the TSBD 20 minutes after the JFKA.
Also, are we 100% sure that no Sheriffs or DPD'ers, unrecorded, went to the upper floor of the TSBD about 12:50pm?
While Mooney would have possibly recognized fellow sheriffs, what about a non-fellow DPD'er?
I dunno about this one. In the hub-bub after the JFKA, outright pandemonium, a couple of guys in suits on the TSBD stairs 20 minutes after the JFKA...means there was a conspiracy?
Could have been anybody.
This does not excuse the WC, which essentially conducted a posthumous LN prosecution of LHO...and also suffocated leads to G2 in the process.
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The key here is knowing exactly when did the TSBD power go out and prevent Mooney from using the freight elevator beyond the 2nd floor? Knowing this would timeline Mooney and those 2 "plain clothes" guys that he encountered coming DOWN the stairwell. It is hard to believe these 2 possible Sheriffs could have entered and gone up into the TSBD and actually investigated anything within roughly 10 minutes after the Kill Shot.
Mooney never claimed that the power to the building was cut off. Only to the elevator.`This is from his report to Decker:
"Officers Webster and Victory took the stairs and I told them I would take the freight elevator. At the time I got on the elevator two women who work in the building got on the elevator, saying they wanted to go to their office. As the elevator started up, we went up one floor and the power to the elevator was cut off. I got out on the floor with these women and looked around in their office and I then took to the stairs and went to the 6th floor"
No one else reported the power to the entire building being cut off or the lights going out etc, and there were any number of people in the building at the time.
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Mooney never claimed that the power to the building was cut off. Only to the elevator.`This is from his report to Decker:
"Officers Webster and Victory took the stairs and I told them I would take the freight elevator. At the time I got on the elevator two women who work in the building got on the elevator, saying they wanted to go to their office. As the elevator started up, we went up one floor and the power to the elevator was cut off. I got out on the floor with these women and looked around in their office and I then took to the stairs and went to the 6th floor"
No one else reported the power to the entire building being cut off or the lights going out etc, and there were any number of people in the building at the time.
Careful, Mitch! You're employing too much logic for Royell Storing!
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[...]
What does "NLT" stand for?
North Loading Transitional Zone, and you just forgot to put the Z in?
-- Tom
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And that's the rub: There just doesn't seem to be a plausible innocent explanation for two well-dressed men coming down the stairs at 12:40-12:50. They obviously were not common laborers or else Mooney would not have assumed they were plain clothes law officers. The WC went of its way to establish that Mooney was the first law officer on the sixth floor. Yet, Ball simply ignored Mooney's account of two law officers on the stairs at a time when none were there and when none should have been there, and the Commission showed no interest in Harkness's encounter at the rear of the TSBD with men who claimed they were Secret Service agents.
10-20 minutes is plenty of time for other DCSD officers to enter the building, get up to a higher floor and come back down in time to meet Mooney. Also, Mooney may have just run into someone who worked in one of the publisher's offices in the TSBD, but whom Mooney took for a other deputies. Suits weren't uncommon businesswear in those days.
As for Harkness, he didn't run round to the back of the TSBD until after Euins had been seated in Sawyer's car. As Mr Storing has pointed out, film shows this occurring while the TSBD's red gates are already closed. Dan O'Meara has shown that photographs show that those red gates are still open at 12:40 PM. Therefore, Harkness doesn't make it to the rear of the TSBD until after 12:40. Maybe even many minutes after 12:40.
At the same time, Forrest Sorrel's didn't hang around at Parkland for very long before he grabbed the first DPD car headed back to Dealey Plaza. Sorrel's testified that the car came down Houston, and that he exited the car and immediately entered the TSBD through the rear entrance. This would put him at the TSBD rear doors about the time that Harkness also showed up back there. The implication should be obvious.
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The WC established that Mooney was the first law enforcement officer to go to the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD) after the shooting, and that Mooney was the officer who discovered the sixth-floor “sniper’s nest.” Mooney headed up the stairs from the second floor to the sixth floor at no later than 12:50. No federal or local law enforcement officers were on any of the upper floors of the building between 12:35 and 1:10.
No federal or local law enforcement officers were on any of the upper floors of the building between 12:35 and 1:10.
This is clearly not the case.
Marrion Baker, along with Roy Truly, reached the seventh floor at approximately 12:35 PM. As the were coming back down to the first floor in the elevator, they stopped on the fourth floor where Baker had a quick chat with Inspector Sawyer. Sawyer had entered the TSBD around 12;35Pm and made his way up to the fourth floor with another officer and a mystery employee from the TSBD. He had his interaction with Baker on the fourth floor at approximately 12:40PM.
However, both these men were in full uniform and cannot be mistaken with the plain clothed deputy sheriffs Mooney saw on his way up to the sixth floor.
Mooney entered the TSBD no sooner than 12:40PM.
He took the elevator, which stalled on the second floor. He had a quick look around the second floor then made his way up to the sixth floor via the back stairs. It was at this time he crossed the two men coming down the stairs. This took place at approximately 12:45PM.
Mooney went up to the sixth, had a good look around on his own, went up to the seventh floor and helped out there before returning to the sixth floor and walking straight over to the southeast corner, where he discovered the "cubby hole". After alerting other officers on the sixth floor of his discovery, he shouted down to Fritz, who was entering the building at 12:58PM
So who were the two plain clothed deputy sheriffs Mooney encountered around 12:45PM?
(https://i.postimg.cc/xTyfcn9c/Faulkner-Report.png) (https://postimages.org/)
This is the report of Deputy Sheriff Jack Faulkner, written up on the day of the assassination.
In it he reports that immediately after the shots he made his way to Elm Street where he was trying to find out what was going on.
He reports that "a small negro boy came up to a Dallas Uniform officer" and told him the shots came from the TSBD. The is is clearly Amos Euins talking to Harkness. This happened BEFORE Harkness radioed in this information at 12:36PM.
Faulkner immediately went to the TSBD where he was met by McCurley, Wiseman and Loraine and they "went to the top of the building and started checking the floors going down from the top in search of the assassin".
They make it to the third floor where they interview some people after which they make their way back up to the building. It is some time after this that Mooney makes his discovery.
It seems that Faulkner, a plain clothed Deputy Sheriff making his way down from the seventh floor, is at least one of the men Mooney encountered. I'm guessing Bill Wiseman was the other.
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No federal or local law enforcement officers were on any of the upper floors of the building between 12:35 and 1:10.
This is clearly not the case.
Marrion Baker, along with Roy Truly, reached the seventh floor at approximately 12:35 PM. As the were coming back down to the first floor in the elevator, they stopped on the fourth floor where Baker had a quick chat with Inspector Sawyer. Sawyer had entered the TSBD around 12;35Pm and made his way up to the fourth floor with another officer and a mystery employee from the TSBD. He had his interaction with Baker on the fourth floor at approximately 12:40PM.
However, both these men were in full uniform and cannot be mistaken with the plain clothed deputy sheriffs Mooney saw on his way up to the sixth floor.
Mooney entered the TSBD no sooner than 12:40PM.
He took the elevator, which stalled on the second floor. He had a quick look around the second floor then made his way up to the sixth floor via the back stairs. It was at this time he crossed the two men coming down the stairs. This took place at approximately 12:45PM.
Mooney went up to the sixth, had a good look around on his own, went up to the seventh floor and helped out there before returning to the sixth floor and walking straight over to the southeast corner, where he discovered the "cubby hole". After alerting other officers on the sixth floor of his discovery, he shouted down to Fritz, who was entering the building at 12:58PM
So who were the two plain clothed deputy sheriffs Mooney encountered around 12:45PM?
(https://i.postimg.cc/xTyfcn9c/Faulkner-Report.png) (https://postimages.org/)
This is the report of Deputy Sheriff Jack Faulkner, written up on the day of the assassination.
In it he reports that immediately after the shots he made his way to Elm Street where he was trying to find out what was going on.
He reports that "a small negro boy came up to a Dallas Uniform officer" and told him the shots came from the TSBD. The is is clearly Amos Euins talking to Harkness. This happened BEFORE Harkness radioed in this information at 12:36PM.
Faulkner immediately went to the TSBD where he was met by McCurley, Wiseman and Loraine and they "went to the top of the building and started checking the floors going down from the top in search of the assassin".
They make it to the third floor where they interview some people after which they make their way back up to the building. It is some time after this that Mooney makes his discovery.
It seems that Faulkner, a plain clothed Deputy Sheriff making his way down from the seventh floor, is at least one of the men Mooney encountered. I'm guessing Bill Wiseman was the other.
There's CBS footage of Amos Euins being loaded into Inspector Sawyer's car in front of the TSBD. This same footage also shows the Huge Gates were Closed/Ajar at that same time. Officer Harkness made a documented 12:36 PM police radio call that he was bringing an eyewitness, (Euins), to the TSBD. After arriving at the TSBD, Harkness then loaded Euins into Sawyer's car. The loading of Euins into Sawyer's car and the Huge Gates already being closed, would then be 12:37. Officer Luke Mooney gave WC testimony that he and 2 other DPD Deputies closed those gates after finding them to be "wide open". This means that 12:37 timeline also applies to Luke Mooney and the 2 deputies who closed those Huge Gates. Luke Mooney and the 2 Deputies were then inside the TSBD no later than 12:38.
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There's CBS footage of Amos Euins being loaded into Inspector Sawyer's car in front of the TSBD. This same footage also shows the Huge Gates were Closed/Ajar at that same time. Officer Harkness made a documented 12:36 PM police radio call that he was bringing an eyewitness, (Euins), to the TSBD. After arriving at the TSBD, Harkness then loaded Euins into Sawyer's car. The loading of Euins into Sawyer's car and the Huge Gates already being closed, would then be 12:37. Officer Luke Mooney gave WC testimony that he and 2 other DPD Deputies closed those gates after finding them to be "wide open". This means that 12:37 timeline also applies to Luke Mooney and the 2 deputies who closed those Huge Gates. Luke Mooney and the 2 Deputies were then inside the TSBD no later than 12:38.
There's CBS footage of Amos Euins being loaded into Inspector Sawyer's car in front of the TSBD
I have never seen this footage. I don't believe such footage exists.
I believe you are referring to footage of Brennan being loaded into Sawyer's car.
If I am mistaken, please point me towards this footage.
Officer Harkness made a documented 12:36 PM police radio call that he was bringing an eyewitness, (Euins), to the TSBD.
Harkness makes two documented transmissions at 12:36PM
"I have a witness that says that it came from the 5th floor of the Texas Book Depository Store."
"Witness says shots came from fifth floor, Texas Book Depository Store and Houston and Elm. I have him with me now and we are sealing off the building."
Neither of these transmissions states that Harkness was "bringing an eyewitness, (Euins), to the TSBD."
I believe you are wrong about the Euin's footage and the Harkness transmission. To my mind this negates your assertion that Mooney entered the TSBD at 12:38PM.
The Allen picture below shows the gates wide open and the time as 12:40PM.
Mooney had not yet entered the TSBD at 12:40PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/W1shgspM/Allen-Walthers-arrow.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9rNmj57M)
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There's CBS footage of Amos Euins being loaded into Inspector Sawyer's car in front of the TSBD. This same footage also shows the Huge Gates were Closed/Ajar at that same time. Officer Harkness made a documented 12:36 PM police radio call that he was bringing an eyewitness, (Euins), to the TSBD. After arriving at the TSBD, Harkness then loaded Euins into Sawyer's car. The loading of Euins into Sawyer's car and the Huge Gates already being closed, would then be 12:37. Officer Luke Mooney gave WC testimony that he and 2 other DPD Deputies closed those gates after finding them to be "wide open". This means that 12:37 timeline also applies to Luke Mooney and the 2 deputies who closed those Huge Gates. Luke Mooney and the 2 Deputies were then inside the TSBD no later than 12:38.
There is nothing in Harkness testimony (or anyone else's) indicating exactly how long it took to put Euins in Sawyer's car.
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There's CBS footage of Amos Euins being loaded into Inspector Sawyer's car in front of the TSBD
I have never seen this footage. I don't believe such footage exists.
I believe you are referring to footage of Brennan being loaded into Sawyer's car.
If I am mistaken, please point me towards this footage.
Officer Harkness made a documented 12:36 PM police radio call that he was bringing an eyewitness, (Euins), to the TSBD.
Harkness makes two documented transmissions at 12:36PM
"I have a witness that says that it came from the 5th floor of the Texas Book Depository Store."
"Witness says shots came from fifth floor, Texas Book Depository Store and Houston and Elm. I have him with me now and we are sealing off the building."
Neither of these transmissions states that Harkness was "bringing an eyewitness, (Euins), to the TSBD."
I believe you are wrong about the Euin's footage and the Harkness transmission. To my mind this negates your assertion that Mooney entered the TSBD at 12:38PM.
The Allen picture below shows the gates wide open and the time as 12:40PM.
Mooney had not yet entered the TSBD at 12:40PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/W1shgspM/Allen-Walthers-arrow.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9rNmj57M)
Why not just nicely ask me for the source that shows Euins being loaded into Sawyer's car?
(1) Go to "YOU TUBE". (2) SEARCH - "Amos Euins?" by- NoTrueFlags Here (3) 7:21 -7:30 shows Euins being loaded into Inspector Sawyer's car and the Huge Gates being closed/ajar.
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There is nothing in Harkness testimony (or anyone else's) indicating exactly how long it took to put Euins in Sawyer's car.
The "longer" you take to place Euins inside Inspector Sawyer's car, means it is even later when Harkness then goes to secure the Back of the TSBD. This is when the Darnell Film shows both Officer Harkness and Officer Haygood together inside the railroad yard. AND, this Darnell film footage of Officer Haygood and Officer Harkness together has to happen BEFORE 12:35 when Officer Haygood makes his documented police radio call from his motorcycle parked at the Elm St curb close to the Triple Underpass. You're stuck. The Tick/Tock of all of this ties together and simply does Not work. These dominoes are falling into each other.
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The "longer" you take to place Euins inside Inspector Sawyer's car, means it is even later when Harkness then goes to secure the Back of the TSBD. This is when the Darnell Film shows both Officer Harkness and Officer Haygood together inside the railroad yard. AND, this Darnell film footage of Officer Haygood and Officer Harkness together has to happen BEFORE 12:35 when Officer Haygood makes his documented police radio call from his motorcycle parked at the Elm St curb close to the Triple Underpass. You're stuck. The Tick/Tock of all of this ties together and simply does Not work. These dominoes are falling into each other.
Harkness explicitly testified that his position near the end of the Elm Street extension was not behind the TSBD
Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do
Mr. HARKNESS - I went west on Main to observe the area between the railroad tracks and Industrial.
Mr. BELIN - Why did you go down there?
Mr. HARKNESS - By the way the people, when I went into this area, everybody was hitting the ground, and someone led us to indicate that the shots were coming into the cars.
Mr. BELIN - You mean from some point in front of the cars?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - Do you know who that someone was?
Mr. HARKNESS - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - What did that person do that indicated that?
Mr. HARKNESS - I don't remember.
Mr. BELIN - Then what did you
Mr. HARKNESS - I went down to Industrial to see if I could see anyone fleeing that area.
Mr. BELIN - What did you see?
Mr. HARKNESS - I didn't see anyone, so I come back to the front of the Book Depository and went around to this fence that was across the street from Elm Street.
Mr. BELIN - What do you mean across the street from Elm Street?
Mr. HARKNESS - Again, I will have to--near the railroad track.
Mr. BELIN - Behind the building?
Mr. HARKNESS - No, sir; this area right here. See, Elm Street goes down.
Mr. BELIN - What you are really saying---
Mr. HARKNESS - This area.
Mr. BELIN - You are pointing to a place between what would be the extension of Elm that doesn't go down into the parkway but the actual extension of Elm?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes; to the plaza area.
Mr. BELIN - The plaza area?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - What did you find there?
Mr. HARKNESS - I found a little colored boy, Amos Euins, who told me he saw the shots come from that building.
The rear of the TSBD is where the the truck loading dock on the North side of the building is. That is, the rear of the TSBD is opposite side of the front, where one would expect the rear to be.
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Harkness explicitly testified that his position near the end of the Elm Street extension was not behind the TSBD
Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do
Mr. HARKNESS - I went west on Main to observe the area between the railroad tracks and Industrial.
Mr. BELIN - Why did you go down there?
Mr. HARKNESS - By the way the people, when I went into this area, everybody was hitting the ground, and someone led us to indicate that the shots were coming into the cars.
Mr. BELIN - You mean from some point in front of the cars?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - Do you know who that someone was?
Mr. HARKNESS - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - What did that person do that indicated that?
Mr. HARKNESS - I don't remember.
Mr. BELIN - Then what did you
Mr. HARKNESS - I went down to Industrial to see if I could see anyone fleeing that area.
Mr. BELIN - What did you see?
Mr. HARKNESS - I didn't see anyone, so I come back to the front of the Book Depository and went around to this fence that was across the street from Elm Street.
Mr. BELIN - What do you mean across the street from Elm Street?
Mr. HARKNESS - Again, I will have to--near the railroad track.
Mr. BELIN - Behind the building?
Mr. HARKNESS - No, sir; this area right here. See, Elm Street goes down.
Mr. BELIN - What you are really saying---
Mr. HARKNESS - This area.
Mr. BELIN - You are pointing to a place between what would be the extension of Elm that doesn't go down into the parkway but the actual extension of Elm?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes; to the plaza area.
Mr. BELIN - The plaza area?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - What did you find there?
Mr. HARKNESS - I found a little colored boy, Amos Euins, who told me he saw the shots come from that building.
The rear of the TSBD is where the the truck loading dock on the North side of the building is. That is, the rear of the TSBD is opposite side of the front, where one would expect the rear to be.
You are another that is short on detailed foundational knowledge. You need to bone up on Euins WC Testimony and the structures which stretch down the Elm St. Extension. In Euins WC Testimony, he indicated on a map where he 1st came into contact with Officer Harkness. This point of contact was where the buildings running down the Elm St Extension end and a FENCE then begins. Inside this FENCE is ANOTHER LOADING DOCK. This additional dock also connects to the TSBD. If you continued walking directly out into the railroad yard from the end of this chain link fence, you would come to the Check Point that Harkness set up out there in order to secure the back of the TSBD. This would be where we see Harkness and the "No Glove Cop" within feet of each other on the Darnell Film. Belin asked Harkness - "BEHIND the builiding?" And Harkness replied, "NO sir, this area right here".
I don't mind helping you out, but please do your necessary JFK Assassination research beforehand. Thanks
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There's CBS footage of Amos Euins being loaded into Inspector Sawyer's car in front of the TSBD
I have never seen this footage. I don't believe such footage exists.
I believe you are referring to footage of Brennan being loaded into Sawyer's car.
If I am mistaken, please point me towards this footage.
Officer Harkness made a documented 12:36 PM police radio call that he was bringing an eyewitness, (Euins), to the TSBD.
Harkness makes two documented transmissions at 12:36PM
"I have a witness that says that it came from the 5th floor of the Texas Book Depository Store."
"Witness says shots came from fifth floor, Texas Book Depository Store and Houston and Elm. I have him with me now and we are sealing off the building."
Neither of these transmissions states that Harkness was "bringing an eyewitness, (Euins), to the TSBD."
I believe you are wrong about the Euin's footage and the Harkness transmission. To my mind this negates your assertion that Mooney entered the TSBD at 12:38PM.
The Allen picture below shows the gates wide open and the time as 12:40PM.
Mooney had not yet entered the TSBD at 12:40PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/W1shgspM/Allen-Walthers-arrow.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9rNmj57M)
BUMP
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Why not just nicely ask me for the source that shows Euins being loaded into Sawyer's car?
(1) Go to "YOU TUBE". (2) SEARCH - "Amos Euins?" by- NoTrueFlags Here (3) 7:21 -7:30 shows Euins being loaded into Inspector Sawyer's car and the Huge Gates being closed/ajar.
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You are another that is short on detailed foundational knowledge. You need to bone up on Euins WC Testimony and the structures which stretch down the Elm St. Extension. In Euins WC Testimony, he indicated on a map where he 1st came into contact with Officer Harkness. This point of contact was where the buildings running down the Elm St Extension end and a FENCE then begins. Inside this FENCE is ANOTHER LOADING DOCK. This additional dock also connects to the TSBD. If you continued walking directly out into the railroad yard from the end of this chain link fence, you would come to the Check Point that Harkness set up out there in order to secure the back of the TSBD. This would be where we see Harkness and the "No Glove Cop" within feet of each other on the Darnell Film. Belin asked Harkness - "BEHIND the builiding?" And Harkness replied, "NO sir, this area right here".
I don't mind helping you out, but please do your necessary JFK Assassination research beforehand. Thanks
I'm assuming that by "FENCE" you're talking about the v-shaped chain link fence between the first RR yard spur and the TSBD parking are west of the annex covered parking. He could also be referring to the GK picket fence; he doesn't specify. I'm going to bend cardinal directions a bit so they match the main downtown Dallas street grid. The chain link fence meets the Elm St extension west of the TSBD and well clear of any part of the Depository.
In the Darnell film, it is easily apparent that Darnell's position is in line with the south curb of the Elm St extension, and that Harkness is about 25-30' north of Darnell's position. Which would put Harkness more or less in line with the north side of the Elm St extension. In turn, this puts him directly west any position he would have taken next to the fence. And not by that far. So, if Harkness is not behind the TSBD when he's on the ESX near the fence, he's also not behind the TSBD when he's at his position in the Darnell film.
That being said, it's worth repeating that "behind" is the opposite of 'in front of." In front of the TSBD is to the south of it. That would put "behind" to the north of the building. The Darnell film shows Harkness to the west of the SW corner of the building. Anyone with the sense of a mule can figure this out.
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I'm assuming that by "FENCE" you're talking about the v-shaped chain link fence between the first RR yard spur and the TSBD parking are west of the annex covered parking. He could also be referring to the GK picket fence; he doesn't specify. I'm going to bend cardinal directions a bit so they match the main downtown Dallas street grid. The chain link fence meets the Elm St extension west of the TSBD and well clear of any part of the Depository.
In the Darnell film, it is easily apparent that Darnell's position is in line with the south curb of the Elm St extension, and that Harkness is about 25-30' north of Darnell's position. Which would put Harkness more or less in line with the north side of the Elm St extension. In turn, this puts him directly west any position he would have taken next to the fence. And not by that far. So, if Harkness is not behind the TSBD when he's on the ESX near the fence, he's also not behind the TSBD when he's at his position in the Darnell film.
That being said, it's worth repeating that "behind" is the opposite of 'in front of." In front of the TSBD is to the south of it. That would put "behind" to the north of the building. The Darnell film shows Harkness to the west of the SW corner of the building. Anyone with the sense of a mule can figure this out.
Would you consider the 2 Story railroad tower to be "behind" the TSBD? Harkness is standing close to that railroad tower.
I disagree with your physical placement of Darnell. Darnell, Harkness, and "No Glove Cop" are almost directly in line with each other when Harkness and "No Glove Cop" are filmed together early on.
The "fence" I am referring to encloses the loading dock at the end of the Elm St Ext. You have the TSBD, the Huge Gates, and then the Brick Warehouse. Where the Brick Warehouse ends, the FENCE then begins and runs toward the railroad yard.
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Would you consider the 2 Story railroad tower to be "behind" the TSBD? Harkness is standing close to that railroad tower.
I disagree with your physical placement of Darnell. Darnell, Harkness, and "No Glove Cop" are almost directly in line with each other when Harkness and "No Glove Cop" are filmed together early on.
The "fence" I am referring to encloses the loading dock at the end of the Elm St Ext. You have the TSBD, the Huge Gates, and then the Brick Warehouse. Where the Brick Warehouse ends, the FENCE then begins and runs toward the railroad yard.
In the Harkness/Haygood/Walthers segment of the D film shows that Darnell, Harkness, and he cop identified as Haygood are aligned along a string of wooden bollards that line the east side of the western RR yard spur. There is a bollard just to the north of the helmeted motorcycle cop. This puts him just south of the gap in the bollards that allow cars to drive on the dirt extension of the ESX where it turns to the Northwest. Of course, Harkness is south of the motorcycle cop. This places Harkness roughly in-line with the front face of the TSBD. That's not what anyone would call "behind the TSBD"
In the below image, the black line runs along the south curb of the ESX and extends to the west of it. D, H, and C are the positions of Darnell, Harkness, and the motorcycle cop. The yellow line is the chain link fence.
(https://i.postimg.cc/zXnpcSj3/Darnell-Film-Harkness-Position-1.jpg)
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In the Harkness/Haygood/Walthers segment of the D film shows that Darnell, Harkness, and he cop identified as Haygood are aligned along a string of wooden bollards that line the east side of the western RR yard spur. There is a bollard just to the north of the helmeted motorcycle cop. This puts him just south of the gap in the bollards that allow cars to drive on the dirt extension of the ESX where it turns to the Northwest. Of course, Harkness is south of the motorcycle cop. This places Harkness roughly in-line with the front face of the TSBD. That's not what anyone would call "behind the TSBD"
In the below image, the black line runs along the south curb of the ESX and extends to the west of it. D, H, and C are the positions of Darnell, Harkness, and the motorcycle cop. The yellow line is the chain link fence.
(https://i.postimg.cc/zXnpcSj3/Darnell-Film-Harkness-Position-1.jpg)
Have you examined the recently uncovered Darnell Film snippet? Steve Barber posted 1 very sharp still frame from that snippet. You have incorrectly positioned all 3 people. (1) The "No Glove Cop" should be on the other side of the dirt road. (2) Officer Harkness was across from him on that same dirt road. (3) Darnell needs to be moved closer to "No Glove Cop" and Officer Harkness. On that new Darnell Film snippet, Darnell films down the Elm St Ext. Darnell would not be able to do that from the position you have him in.
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Have you examined the recently uncovered Darnell Film snippet? Steve Barber posted 1 very sharp still frame from that snippet. You have incorrectly positioned all 3 people. (1) The "No Glove Cop" should be on the other side of the dirt road. (2) Officer Harkness was across from him on that same dirt road. (3) Darnell needs to be moved closer to "No Glove Cop" and Officer Harkness. On that new Darnell Film snippet, Darnell films down the Elm St Ext. Darnell would not be able to do that from the position you have him in.
RS: Have you examined the recently uncovered Darnell Film snippet?
Yes. In it, you see that Darnell is standing south and west of the depository when he's filming the crowd on the Elm Street extension. When he does so, you can see a street sign on the S side of the ESX right in front of one of the oak trees that line Elm. That's why the black line locates his position.
RS: The "No Glove Cop" should be on the other side of the dirt road.
No. There is a string of bollards running between the motorcycle cop and Harkness. You see the bollards when the cop walks past them. There wouldn't be a line of bollards placed across a dirt road. You'd also have us believe that there's a car parked in the middle of the dirt road.
RS: Officer Harkness was across from him on that same dirt road
Also no, and for the same reasons.
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RS: Have you examined the recently uncovered Darnell Film snippet?
Yes. In it, you see that Darnell is standing south and west of the depository when he's filming the crowd on the Elm Street extension. When he does so, you can see a street sign on the S side of the ESX right in front of one of the oak trees that line Elm. That's why the black line locates his position.
RS: The "No Glove Cop" should be on the other side of the dirt road.
No. There is a string of bollards running between the motorcycle cop and Harkness. You see the bollards when the cop walks past them. There wouldn't be a line of bollards placed across a dirt road. You'd also have us believe that there's a car parked in the middle of the dirt road.
RS: Officer Harkness was across from him on that same dirt road
Also no, and for the same reasons.
You are Not describing the new Darnell Film snippet. Darnell is not standing near the TSBD when he films this snippet. He is standing well inside the railroad yard, close to Harkness, the No Glove Cop, and Buddy Walthers. Please get yourself up-to-speed and then get back to me.
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You are Not describing the new Darnell Film snippet. Darnell is not standing near the TSBD when he films this snippet. He is standing well inside the railroad yard, close to Harkness, the No Glove Cop, and Buddy Walthers. Please get yourself up-to-speed and then get back to me.
I didn't say Darnell was near the TSBD. I said he was positioned both west and south of the TSBD, as can easily be determined from his film. It's position "D" on the image I shared earlier. You will note that I've put Darnell "well inside the railroad yard, close to Harkness, the No Glove Cop, and Buddy Walthers," as you have said yourself.
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I didn't say Darnell was near the TSBD. I said he was positioned both west and south of the TSBD, as can easily be determined from his film. It's position "D" on the image I shared earlier. You will note that I've put Darnell "well inside the railroad yard, close to Harkness, the No Glove Cop, and Buddy Walthers," as you have said yourself.
Nobody fixes the position of someone back inside the railroad yard by detailing how far that person was from the TSBD. You simply revealed that you were unfamiliar with the newly found Darnell Film snippet. Learning something new is to be valued. It's what you learn after you know-it-all that really counts.
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Nobody fixes the position of someone back inside the railroad yard by detailing how far that person was from the TSBD. You simply revealed that you were unfamiliar with the newly found Darnell Film snippet. Learning something new is to be valued. It's what you learn after you know-it-all that really counts.
Again, I never mentioned how far Darnell was from the TSBD. Your entire reply is just a load of empty whargarrbl. We can locate where Darnell is directly from his film using the curbline of the Elm St extension and figuring out which railroad spur he is standing next to. Doing so puts Harkness directly west of the location of his meeting with Amos Euins. And if the latter location isn't "behind the TSBD", then Harkness' location in the Darnell film is also not behind the TSBD.
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Again, I never mentioned how far Darnell was from the TSBD. Your entire reply is just a load of empty whargarrbl. We can locate where Darnell is directly from his film using the curbline of the Elm St extension and figuring out which railroad spur he is standing next to. Doing so puts Harkness directly west of the location of his meeting with Amos Euins. And if the latter location isn't "behind the TSBD", then Harkness' location in the Darnell film is also not behind the TSBD.
Your giving anyone directions to anywhere would result in them being forced to stop at a gas station and asking for directions. Simply put, Darnell is almost directly in line with "No Glove Cop" and Officer Harkness back inside the railroad yard. THAT is what matters. And your "curb" stuff carries absolutely no weight. The dirt portion of the Elm St Ext that we see both No Glove Cop and Harkness standing on, does a "Dog Leg" to the viewer's (R). That dirt portion of the Elm St Extension is NOT close to being in direct line with your Elm St Extension curb. Like 99% of the JFK Assassination Researchers, you are unfamiliar with both the Elm St Extension and the railroad yard. This is why I have made the: (1) "Getaway" car, (2) "That Ain't Haygood", and, (3) "wide open" Huge Gates major discoveries. I have focused on the railroad yard and the Elm St Extension which researchers are not interested in. This is because there is no $$ to be made investigating these areas. These areas remain virgin research territory.
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Your giving anyone directions to anywhere would result in them being forced to stop at a gas station and asking for directions. Simply put, Darnell is almost directly in line with "No Glove Cop" and Officer Harkness back inside the railroad yard. THAT is what matters. And your "curb" stuff carries absolutely no weight. The dirt portion of the Elm St Ext that we see both No Glove Cop and Harkness standing on, does a "Dog Leg" to the viewer's (R). That dirt portion of the Elm St Extension is NOT close to being in direct line with your Elm St Extension curb. Like 99% of the JFK Assassination Researchers, you are unfamiliar with both the Elm St Extension and the railroad yard. This is why I have made the: (1) "Getaway" car, (2) "That Ain't Haygood", and, (3) "wide open" Huge Gates major discoveries. I have focused on the railroad yard and the Elm St Extension which researchers are not interested in. This is because there is no $$ to be made investigating these areas. These areas remain virgin research territory.
RS: your "curb" stuff carries absolutely no weight
the "curb stuff" shows where Darnell was standing on the north/south axis when he was filming Walthers, Harkness, and the motorcycle cop whom you deny is Haygood. And that he was much further south than you want to admit.
RS: The dirt portion of the Elm St Ext that we see both No Glove Cop and Harkness standing on, does a "Dog Leg" to the viewer's (R)
As I've already mentioned, you can see a line of bollards between Harkness' and the motorcycle cop's position. If they were both standing on opposite sides of the dirt road, those bollards would run across the road, making it useless as a road. So the dirt road is not between those two policemen, QED.
That dirt portion of the Elm St Extension is NOT close to being in direct line with your Elm St Extension curb.
That's good, because Darnell and Harkness are both south of the dirt road.
Like 99% of the JFK Assassination Researchers, you are unfamiliar with both the Elm St Extension and the railroad yard.
Apparently, I'm much more aware of what's there than you are. Otherwise you would have understood the significance of the line of bollards between Harkness and the MC.
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Clearly the answer must be that there were 2 6th floor TSBD assassins dressed as plainclothes officers who waited 5 minutes after shooting to walk down 6 flights of stairs and on their way, cut the power to the elevators when they heard the voices of Luke Mooney asking Victoria Adams how to operate the elevator. 🥸
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RS: your "curb" stuff carries absolutely no weight
the "curb stuff" shows where Darnell was standing on the north/south axis when he was filming Walthers, Harkness, and the motorcycle cop whom you deny is Haygood. And that he was much further south than you want to admit.
RS: The dirt portion of the Elm St Ext that we see both No Glove Cop and Harkness standing on, does a "Dog Leg" to the viewer's (R)
As I've already mentioned, you can see a line of bollards between Harkness' and the motorcycle cop's position. If they were both standing on opposite sides of the dirt road, those bollards would run across the road, making it useless as a road. So the dirt road is not between those two policemen, QED.
That dirt portion of the Elm St Extension is NOT close to being in direct line with your Elm St Extension curb.
That's good, because Darnell and Harkness are both south of the dirt road.
Like 99% of the JFK Assassination Researchers, you are unfamiliar with both the Elm St Extension and the railroad yard.
Apparently, I'm much more aware of what's there than you are. Otherwise you would have understood the significance of the line of bollards between Harkness and the MC.
Just take a look at the Towner Film. After the JFK Limo turns onto Elm St and permits unobstructed viewing of the Traffic Signal, Fedora Man can be seen standing close enough to the Traffic Signal to touch it.
The dirt road is roughly 2 lanes wide. "No Glove Cop" and Officer Harkness are on opposite sides of that 2 lanes wide dirt road.
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Just take a look at the Towner Film. After the JFK Limo turns onto Elm St and permits unobstructed viewing of the Traffic Signal, Fedora Man can be seen standing close enough to the Traffic Signal to touch it.
The dirt road is roughly 2 lanes wide. "No Glove Cop" and Officer Harkness are on opposite sides of that 2 lanes wide dirt road.
We aren't talking about the Towner film, "Fedora Man" or a traffic signal here. They have no import on the issues in question.
Again --for the third time-- the Darnell film shows a line of bollards that run between Harkness and the motorcycle cop. Because of this, the dirt road cannot be between Harkness and the MC. Period.
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Again --for the third time-- the Darnell film shows a line of bollards that run between Harkness and the motorcycle cop. Because of this, the dirt road cannot be between Harkness and the MC. Period.
Shocker: Royell Storing is beyond dead wrong with his amateur photo and film analysis.
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Where these 2 plainclothes men the same 2 men that Baker and Truly run into at the rear elevators on the ground floor as early as 75 post shots?
If so , were those the same 2 plainclothes men that DPD officer Barnett saw at the rear loading dock within less than 60 sec post shots?
Were those 2 plainclothes men the same 2 men that Adams and Stiles saw when they had exited via the TSBD back door( about 60 sec post shots also) , and the men having told Adams to go back inside? A&S apparently ignored the command and went outside anyway because tgey arrived out front by the TSBD main entrance ( where they were photographed)
If those 2 plainclothes men were the ones outside that Adams and Barnett saw at 60 sec post shots , then perhaps they went into TSBD via rear door and were standing near the rear elevators to be seen by Truly and Baker at 70-75 sec post shots mark.
Then perhaps they went up the staircases just after Baker and Truly, with intent to help search some of the floors.
Why Baker did not ask who the men were or attempt to coordinate with them searching the floors , is a mystery.
Why there was no conversation with nor coordination with Luke Mooney when the 2 plainclothes men come back the stairs is equally a mystery.
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We aren't talking about the Towner film, "Fedora Man" or a traffic signal here. They have no import on the issues in question.
Again --for the third time-- the Darnell film shows a line of bollards that run between Harkness and the motorcycle cop. Because of this, the dirt road cannot be between Harkness and the MC. Period.
I am talking about the dirt road portion of the Elm St Extension. When the alleged motorcycle cop changes directions, and walks DOWNWARD onto that dirt road, there are NO BOLLARDS between Officer Harkness and this alleged motorcycle cop. If the lack of clarity on the Darnell Film you are looking at is clouding your judgement, a good overhead view of this portion of the railroad yard will help. I can direct you to such if need be. Just let me know.
BUMP
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I am talking about the dirt road portion of the Elm St Extension. When the alleged motorcycle cop changes directions, and walks DOWNWARD onto that dirt road, there are NO BOLLARDS between Officer Harkness and this alleged motorcycle cop. If the lack of clarity on the Darnell Film you are looking at is clouding your judgement, a good overhead view of this portion of the railroad yard will help. I can direct you to such if need be. Just let me know.
RS: I am talking about the dirt road portion of the Elm St Extension.
So why did you bring up the limo turn and traffic signal in the Wegman film?
there are NO BOLLARDS between Officer Harkness and this alleged motorcycle cop.
Yes there are! Not only can you see many of them in the Darnell film, others are made obvious when the motorcycle cop walks behind them.
Here, bollards are outlined in red. Note that one is in Harkness' shadow:
(https://i.postimg.cc/Fs658FVF/Haygood-RR-Yard-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Tpn4W6sB)
Here, "B" marks where the line of bollards is. You can see that two of them are silhouetted by the MC as he walks behind them:
(https://i.postimg.cc/sDLdqf4g/Haygood-RR-Yard-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jLyFJb1p)
Here he is a half step later:
(https://i.postimg.cc/c4zy21B4/Haygood-RR-Yard-3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tYFMVjcL)
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I am talking about the dirt road portion of the Elm St Extension. When the alleged motorcycle cop changes directions, and walks DOWNWARD onto that dirt road, there are NO BOLLARDS between Officer Harkness and this alleged motorcycle cop. If the lack of clarity on the Darnell Film you are looking at is clouding your judgement, a good overhead view of this portion of the railroad yard will help. I can direct you to such if need be. Just let me know.
Bump. The above clearly shows I am talking about, "the dirt road portion of the Elm St Extension". That "dirt road" DEAD ENDS into your outlined bollards. The "No Glove Cop" and Officer Harkness are BOTH on the Elm St Extension when that alleged cop walks between/through the bollards. At this point, the alleged cop and Harkness are physically on the dirt road, and there are no bollards between them. This has consistently been my stated position.
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Bump. The above clearly shows I am talking about, "the dirt road portion of the Elm St Extension". That "dirt road" DEAD ENDS into your outlined bollards. The "No Glove Cop" and Officer Harkness are BOTH on the Elm St Extension when that alleged cop walks between/through the bollards. At this point, the alleged cop and Harkness are physically on the dirt road, and there are no bollards between them. This has consistently been my stated position.
RS: That "dirt road" DEAD ENDS into your outlined bollards
Not true at all. In the Darnell film, the line of cars to the left of the image is clearly seen extending to the west end of the "long house" sitting directly to the east of Bowers' tower. This fact allows us to locate which spur Darnell, Harkness, and the MC are next to. Any aerial image of the RR yard clearly shows that the road crosses that line of cars and continues on. In fact, the dirt road turns to the north and extends well beyond the E-W tracks and to the northern end of the rail yard.
You need to stop just making things up as you go along.
Again, here is an annotated photo showing the railyard:
(https://i.postimg.cc/zXnpcSj3/Darnell-Film-Harkness-Position-1.jpg)
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TODD - All you need to do is watch the recently discovered Darnell Film Snippet to see where "No Glove Cop" is positioned inside the railroad yard. Go to YOU TUBE and search - "The Full Darnell Snippet" by - "The JFK Theorist" (23:32 - 23:40). This is not complicated.
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TODD - All you need to do is watch the recently discovered Darnell Film Snippet to see where "No Glove Cop" is positioned inside the railroad yard. Go to YOU TUBE and search - "The Full Darnell Snippet" by - "The JFK Theorist" (23:32 - 23:40). This is not complicated.
You saw the screencaps I just posted of Harkness and the MC. Those are in fact from the exact Youtube video you keep referring us to.
I'm not the one who is confused.
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You saw the screencaps I just posted of Harkness and the MC. Those are in fact from the exact Youtube video you keep referring us to.
I'm not the one who is confused.
What you posted does not show the Darnell footage of the Elm St Extension. That Elm St Extension footage leads directly to your posted still frames. It shows us exactly where "No Glove Cop" and Officer Harkness are. If you are aware of this footage, why are you avoiding it?
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What you posted does not show the Darnell footage of the Elm St Extension. That Elm St Extension footage leads directly to your posted still frames. It shows us exactly where "No Glove Cop" and Officer Harkness are. If you are aware of this footage, why are you avoiding it?
You said that I should look at "'The Full Darnell Snippet' by - 'The JFK Theorist' (23:32 - 23:40)." The screen caps I posted are taken from the 23:34-23:36 interval of the same video. That is, they come from within the interval you pointed to. Do you not even know what film you are looking at?
Harkness and the MC do not appear in the part pointing down the Elm St extension (23:32-23:34), so it cannot not itself show "exactly where [they] are." It does show that Darnell is south of the TSBD, about where the ESX curb would be if it continued straight west. Just like I showed in the annotated aerial photo of the RR yard. This puts him, Harkness, and the MC south of where you so desperately want to believe.
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You said that I should look at "'The Full Darnell Snippet' by - 'The JFK Theorist' (23:32 - 23:40)." The screen caps I posted are taken from the 23:34-23:36 interval of the same video. That is, they come from within the interval you pointed to. Do you not even know what film you are looking at?
Harkness and the MC do not appear in the part pointing down the Elm St extension (23:32-23:34), so it cannot not itself show "exactly where [they] are." It does show that Darnell is south of the TSBD, about where the ESX curb would be if it continued straight west. Just like I showed in the annotated aerial photo of the RR yard. This puts him, Harkness, and the MC south of where you so desperately want to believe.
It is the ENTIRE Darnell Film Snippet that has to be viewed in order to appreciate what we are seeing. Also, a sound foundation regarding the Elm Street Extension is required. You obviously do Not have this. This is why you are unable to connect-the-dots.
After making his 12:36 police radio transmission, Officer Harkness was filmed by Martin as he took Amos Euins down the "wide open" Elm St Ext on the back of his 3 wheel motorcycle. Harkness then loaded Euins into Inspector Sawyer's car. Euins sitting in the back of Sawyer's car, with the Harkness motorcycle double parked next to that same car, was filmed by National Geographic. The Elm St Ext can be seen to be STILL WIDE OPEN on this Nat Geo film footage. The Darnell Film shows the Elm St Ext to be JAMMED WITH PEOPLE at the very same time that Officer Harkness and "No Glove Cop" are filmed together. This timestamps Harkness and "No Glove Cop" being filmed together on the Darnell Film at 12:38. Officer Haywood made a 12:35 radio transmission from his motorcycle that was parked at the Elm St curb near the Triple Underpass. Haygood's 12:35 radio transmission means the "No Glove Cop" on the 12:38 Darnell Film snippet can NOT be Officer Haygood. Which begs the question. Who is this "No Glove Cop" that was filmed with Officer Harkness?
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It is the ENTIRE Darnell Film Snippet that has to be viewed in order to appreciate what we are seeing. Also, a sound foundation regarding the Elm Street Extension is required. You obviously do Not have this. This is why you are unable to connect-the-dots.
After making his 12:36 police radio transmission, Officer Harkness was filmed by Martin as he took Amos Euins down the "wide open" Elm St Ext on the back of his 3 wheel motorcycle. Harkness then loaded Euins into Inspector Sawyer's car. Euins sitting in the back of Sawyer's car, with the Harkness motorcycle double parked next to that same car, was filmed by National Geographic. The Elm St Ext can be seen to be STILL WIDE OPEN on this Nat Geo film footage. The Darnell Film shows the Elm St Ext to be JAMMED WITH PEOPLE at the very same time that Officer Harkness and "No Glove Cop" are filmed together. This timestamps Harkness and "No Glove Cop" being filmed together on the Darnell Film at 12:38. Officer Haywood made a 12:35 radio transmission from his motorcycle that was parked at the Elm St curb near the Triple Underpass. Haygood's 12:35 radio transmission means the "No Glove Cop" on the 12:38 Darnell Film snippet can NOT be Officer Haygood. Which begs the question. Who is this "No Glove Cop" that was filmed with Officer Harkness?
RS: It is the ENTIRE Darnell Film Snippet that has to be viewed in order to appreciate what we are seeing. Also, a sound foundation regarding the Elm Street Extension is required. You obviously do Not have this. This is why you are unable to connect-the-dots.
I've already addressed both parts of the snipped. That is, the "ENTIRE" thing. I've already demonstrated that Darnell's position is south of the TSBD and to the west of it, along the second RR spur. The annotated photo I've twice posted shows this, and why. It also shows a parked car and a line of bollards between Harkness and the motorcycle cop, which puts Harkness south of the dirt road. Harkness position is then almost perfectly due west of the place he encountered Euins near the SE corner of the TSBD annex.
RS: was filmed by National Geographic.
NatGeo didn't have a cameraman in Dealey Plaza that day. No idea where you got this.
The Elm St Ext can be seen to be STILL WIDE OPEN on this Nat Geo film footage. The Darnell Film shows the Elm St Ext to be JAMMED WITH PEOPLE at the very same time that Officer Harkness and "No Glove Cop" are filmed together.
The area in the Darnell film where you see the crowd of people clustered together is the triangular area bounded on the south by the rear of the pergola, on the west be the first RR spur, and on the north/east by the dirt road where it turns and starts running to the northwest. This puts them somewhat to the west and south of the annex. Darnell is filming this from a position west of this triangular area. Martin filmed Harnkess driving down the ESX from a position directly south of the annex. So the crowd is beween Darnell's and Martin's positions. Which is behind Martin while when was filming, so you wouldn't see that big crowd in his shot. You still do see a small crowd standing in the street along the south side of the ESX, but they likely had enough sense not to bock the roadway with a police officer coming through.
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After 62+ years, I can understand you're having problems accepting that which has been right in front of you. But there it is, right there. The Elm St Ext is jammed with people. They have: (1) drifted down from the TSBD, (2) to Inspector Sawyer's car with Euins inside, and, (3) now stand parallel to the loading dock. This is ALL IMAGE DOCUMENTED starting with the Allen Photo taken in front of the TSBD. That photo shows these very same people beginning their journey as they mill around there. Just focus your attention on that Old Man wearing the screwy hat. He's the guy the kids are kinda heckling. These people are nowhere close to the rear of the Pergola. That's just flat-out wrong.
It's evident that you are not familiar with the Nat Geo clip I referenced. You could fire a canon ball down the Elm St Ext on this footage. This footage shows how clear the Elm Ext is at that point in time. And this Nat Geo clip also shows Officer Harkness's #99 3 wheel motorcycle double parked alongside Inspector Sawyer's car. Inspector Sawyer did Not arrive at the TSBD until 12:35. Officer Harkness made a 12:36 radio transmission that he was bringing Euins to the TSBD. And we see the Elm St Ext is wide open at 12:37 on this Nat Geo film snippet. By 12:38 the Elm St Ext is jammed packed due to the people filtering down from the TSBD. This is also when we see Harkness and the "No Glove Cop" together on the Darnell film.
It is physically impossible for Officer Harkness and Officer Haygood to be filmed together by Darnell. Haygood made a 12:35 radio transmission from his motorcycle over by the Triple Underpass. Harkness made his 12:36 radio transmission mentioned above. That "No Glove Cop" is not Officer Haygood. I have proven this via Image Evidence and the Documented DPD Radio Transmissions by Haygood and Harkness. This is a slam dunk.
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After 62+ years, I can understand you're having problems accepting that which has been right in front of you.
You're the one having problems. Mitch Todd just deflated your nonsensical "Elm Street Extension" balloon.
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You're the one having problems. Mitch Todd just deflated your nonsensical "Elm Street Extension" balloon.
Tommy, are you up to actually doing some of your Own Research? This is much different than merely endorsing somebody else's say-so.
Go over to YOU TUBE and search: "The Full Darnell Film" by - The JFK Theorist (23:32 - 23:33). You can see the railroad spur closest to the TSBD. You can also see well down into the Elm St Ext. You can easily see the Huge Gates. And you can also see throngs of people stretched across & down that street. I have done the research. Now, how about You?
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After 62+ years, I can understand you're having problems accepting that which has been right in front of you. But there it is, right there. The Elm St Ext is jammed with people. They have: (1) drifted down from the TSBD, (2) to Inspector Sawyer's car with Euins inside, and, (3) now stand parallel to the loading dock. This is ALL IMAGE DOCUMENTED starting with the Allen Photo taken in front of the TSBD. That photo shows these very same people beginning their journey as they mill around there. Just focus your attention on that Old Man wearing the screwy hat. He's the guy the kids are kinda heckling. These people are nowhere close to the rear of the Pergola. That's just flat-out wrong.
It's evident that you are not familiar with the Nat Geo clip I referenced. You could fire a canon ball down the Elm St Ext on this footage. This footage shows how clear the Elm Ext is at that point in time. And this Nat Geo clip also shows Officer Harkness's #99 3 wheel motorcycle double parked alongside Inspector Sawyer's car. Inspector Sawyer did Not arrive at the TSBD until 12:35. Officer Harkness made a 12:36 radio transmission that he was bringing Euins to the TSBD. And we see the Elm St Ext is wide open at 12:37 on this Nat Geo film snippet. By 12:38 the Elm St Ext is jammed packed due to the people filtering down from the TSBD. This is also when we see Harkness and the "No Glove Cop" together on the Darnell film.
It is physically impossible for Officer Harkness and Officer Haygood to be filmed together by Darnell. Haygood made a 12:35 radio transmission from his motorcycle over by the Triple Underpass. Harkness made his 12:36 radio transmission mentioned above. That "No Glove Cop" is not Officer Haygood. I have proven this via Image Evidence and the Documented DPD Radio Transmissions by Haygood and Harkness. This is a slam dunk.
I take it, by "National Geographic film" you are referring to the second episode ("Manhunt") of the National Geographic series "JFK: One Day in America" and that you are specifically referring to a clip that begins about nine minutes into the episode. A clip showing a blue-hatted DPD office carrying a shotgun across Elm behind Sawyer's car and Harkness' trike?
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I take it, by "National Geographic film" you are referring to the second episode ("Manhunt") of the National Geographic series "JFK: One Day in America" and that you are specifically referring to a clip that begins about nine minutes into the episode. A clip showing a blue-hatted DPD office carrying a shotgun across Elm behind Sawyer's car and Harkness' trike?
Nat Geo (8:55 - 8:57) & "The Full Darnell Film" by - "The JFK Theorist" (23:32 - 23:40)
Nat Geo - Shows the Elm St Extension to be empty of people. Amos Euins is sitting inside Inspector Sawyer's car and Officer Harkness's 3 wheel motorcycle is double parked next to Inspector Sawyer's Car. (Time Stamp)
"The Full Darnell Film" - Shows the Elm St Extension now jammed with people. Officer Harkness is filmed providing security behind the TSBD. (Time Stamp)
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RS: I am talking about the dirt road portion of the Elm St Extension.
So why did you bring up the limo turn and traffic signal in the Wegman film?
there are NO BOLLARDS between Officer Harkness and this alleged motorcycle cop.
Yes there are! Not only can you see many of them in the Darnell film, others are made obvious when the motorcycle cop walks behind them.
Here, bollards are outlined in red. Note that one is in Harkness' shadow:
(https://i.postimg.cc/Fs658FVF/Haygood-RR-Yard-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Tpn4W6sB)
Here, "B" marks where the line of bollards is. You can see that two of them are silhouetted by the MC as he walks behind them:
(https://i.postimg.cc/sDLdqf4g/Haygood-RR-Yard-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jLyFJb1p)
Here he is a half step later:
(https://i.postimg.cc/c4zy21B4/Haygood-RR-Yard-3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tYFMVjcL)
12:35 - DPD Motorcycle Officer Haygood makes documented radio transmission from his motorcycle parked near the Triple Underpass
12:36 - DPD Officer Harkness makes a documented radio transmission that he is bringing a witness/Amos Euins to the TSBD. Harkness then loads Euins into the backseat of Inspector Sawyer's car in front of the TSBD. Harkness is then instructed to secure the area behind the TSBD.
Above, we see Officer Harkness has followed his orders with respect to securing the area behind the TSBD. The time of the above would be 12:38 PM. This makes it physically impossible for the above DPD Motorcycle Cop to be Officer Haygood. Haygood having made his 12:35 radio transmission from his parked motorcycle near the Triple Underpass.
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RS: I am talking about the dirt road portion of the Elm St Extension.
So why did you bring up the limo turn and traffic signal in the Wegman film?
there are NO BOLLARDS between Officer Harkness and this alleged motorcycle cop.
Yes there are! Not only can you see many of them in the Darnell film, others are made obvious when the motorcycle cop walks behind them.
Here, bollards are outlined in red. Note that one is in Harkness' shadow:
(https://i.postimg.cc/Fs658FVF/Haygood-RR-Yard-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Tpn4W6sB)
Here, "B" marks where the line of bollards is. You can see that two of them are silhouetted by the MC as he walks behind them:
(https://i.postimg.cc/sDLdqf4g/Haygood-RR-Yard-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jLyFJb1p)
Here he is a half step later:
(https://i.postimg.cc/c4zy21B4/Haygood-RR-Yard-3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tYFMVjcL)
I recently put the Bart Kamp Baloney to bed regarding Lovelady being 1 of the "2 Guys" walking away from what was intended to be a "getaway" car. And I did Not go to the National Archives and then plaster You Tube with endless presentations with JFK Assassination Images that spindled, folded, bent and twisted 5 ways to Sunday. If you guys wanna throw in with that, have at it. Me? I do the research. The down and dirty. The gumshoe work. No glitz. No Glamor. 100% Grade A Choice work. Including actually reading and knowing the sworn testimonies of the principles involved.
And now, I have proven that alleged motorcycle cop above is an Impostor. He is NOT Motorcycle Officer Haygood. It is physically impossible for this "individual" to have been filmed by Darnell with Officer Harkness at 12:34 PM. IMPOSSIBLE! For 62+ years this intentional misdirection has been permitted to stand. Not any longer. Haygood made a 12:35 PM police radio transmission from his motorcycle parked near the Triple Underpass. Harkness? He made a 12:36 police radio transmission, and then loaded Amos Euins into Inspector Sawyer's car in front of the TSBD. Inspector Sawyer? He did Not arrive at the TSBD until 12:35. I put ALL of this together. It is physically impossible for the Darnell still frame above to have been filmed at 12:34. The alleged motorcycle cop above is Not Officer Haygood. He is an impostor.
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He is an impostor.
And you're an impostor of someone who actually knows how to properly analyze films and photos.
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And you're an impostor of someone who actually knows how to properly analyze films and photos.
Why aren't you jumping all over that horrible "analyzing" of Willis 21/Prayer Man BS: in the thread above? Why aren't you there? Go do your Chef Tony with the Ginsu Knives routine over there. It's not hard to do over there if you have a broad based JFK Assassination foundation. I just blew that "analysis" up. But maybe needing a broad based JFK Assassination Foundation immediately cancels you out? Or is it simply your suffering from SDS?
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RS: I am talking about the dirt road portion of the Elm St Extension.
So why did you bring up the limo turn and traffic signal in the Wegman film?
there are NO BOLLARDS between Officer Harkness and this alleged motorcycle cop.
Yes there are! Not only can you see many of them in the Darnell film, others are made obvious when the motorcycle cop walks behind them.
Here, bollards are outlined in red. Note that one is in Harkness' shadow:
(https://i.postimg.cc/Fs658FVF/Haygood-RR-Yard-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Tpn4W6sB)
Here, "B" marks where the line of bollards is. You can see that two of them are silhouetted by the MC as he walks behind them:
(https://i.postimg.cc/sDLdqf4g/Haygood-RR-Yard-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jLyFJb1p)
Here he is a half step later:
(https://i.postimg.cc/c4zy21B4/Haygood-RR-Yard-3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tYFMVjcL)
12:34 PM - The above showing Motorcycle Officer Haygood is IMPOSSIBLE. Haygood and Officer Harkness could not be filmed together at 12:34. Without question impossible. This alleged motorcycle officer is an impostor. (1) Who is he? (2) Where is his motorcycle? (3) What is he holding? (4) Where is he headed?
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12:34 PM - The above showing Motorcycle Officer Haygood is IMPOSSIBLE. Haygood and Officer Harkness could not be filmed together at 12:34. Without question impossible. This alleged motorcycle officer is an impostor. (1) Who is he? (2) Where is his motorcycle? (3) What is he holding? (4) Where is he headed?
According to Detective Buddy Walters, there were a number of officers in that particular area at that time. Why did you identify the two officers as Harkness and Haygood?
Mr. WALTHERS. And at that time I heard the shots as well as everybody else, but as we got over this fence, and a lot of officers and people were just rummaging through the train yards back in this parking area.
Mr. LIEBELER. In the parking area down there? West of the Texas School Book Depository Building between the Texas School Book Depository and the railroad tracks?
Mr. WALTHERS. Yes; and the discussion came up among several of the officers, "Were there any shots fired?" And I said, "Well, they sounded like rifle shots to me." At the time no one knew---in our crowd they were sure the shots had been fired though because of the reports---we heard the noise, and I left then and went back up here and came back onto the street.
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RS: I am talking about the dirt road portion of the Elm St Extension.
So why did you bring up the limo turn and traffic signal in the Wegman film?
there are NO BOLLARDS between Officer Harkness and this alleged motorcycle cop.
Yes there are! Not only can you see many of them in the Darnell film, others are made obvious when the motorcycle cop walks behind them.
Here, bollards are outlined in red. Note that one is in Harkness' shadow:
(https://i.postimg.cc/Fs658FVF/Haygood-RR-Yard-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Tpn4W6sB)
Here, "B" marks where the line of bollards is. You can see that two of them are silhouetted by the MC as he walks behind them:
(https://i.postimg.cc/sDLdqf4g/Haygood-RR-Yard-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jLyFJb1p)
Here he is a half step later:
(https://i.postimg.cc/c4zy21B4/Haygood-RR-Yard-3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tYFMVjcL)
The image above is a "cropped" Darnell Film still frame. Buddy Walthers is actually included in this still frame. He is pictured to the extreme (L) on this same still frame. The 2 DPD Police Officers in this photo have for 62+ years been ID'd as being DPD Motorcycle Officer Haygood, (wearing the White Helmet), and Officer Harkness. Officer Haygood is the ONLY DPD MOTORCYCLE COP to have been back inside the railroad immediately after the kill shot. At 12:35 PM, Haygood made a documented radio transmission from his motorcycle parked on the Elm St curb near the Triple Underpass. That is why this still frame has always been time stamped 12:34 PM. Officer Haygood had to be back at his motorcycle by 12:35 to make that 12:35 radio transmission. The other DPD Cop on this still frame is Officer Harkness. Harkness made a documented 12:36 police radio transmission. On that transmission, Officer Harkness said he had an eyewitness that he was bringing to the TSBD. Harkness then put this eyewitness/Amos Euins on the back of this 3 Wheel Motorcycle and took Euins to the TSBD. When Harkness arrived at the TSBD with the eyewitness/Amos Euins, he was instructed to place Euins inside Inspector Sawyer's car. Inspector Sawyer arrived at the TSBD at 12:35. The loading of Euins into Sawyer's car would be happening at 12:37. Upon finishing with the loading of Euins into the car, Officer Harkness was instructed to go and secure the area behind the TSBD. This is where we see Officer Harkness on the above Darnell still frame. Officer Harkness is securing the rear of the TSBD. The CORRECT TIME STAMP for the still frame above would therefore be 12:38. The motorcycle officer in the white helmet that we see above in this Darnell still frame can NOT BE Officer Haygood. Officer Haygood was back at his motorcycle making a documented police transmission at 12:35. After making that 12:35 radio transmission, Haygood then stayed there alongside his motorcycle and interviewed JFK Assassination Eyewitnesses. With Officer Haygood being the only known DPD Motorcycle Cop inside the railroad yard immediately following the kill shot, reveals this motorcycle cop we see in the above Darnell still frame to be an impostor. This begs the following questions: (1) Who is this impostor? (2) Where is his motorcycle? (3) Where did he come from? (4) Where is he going?
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According to Detective Buddy Walters, there were a number of officers in that particular area at that time. Why did you identify the two officers as Harkness and Haygood?
Mr. WALTHERS. And at that time I heard the shots as well as everybody else, but as we got over this fence, and a lot of officers and people were just rummaging through the train yards back in this parking area.
Mr. LIEBELER. In the parking area down there? West of the Texas School Book Depository Building between the Texas School Book Depository and the railroad tracks?
Mr. WALTHERS. Yes; and the discussion came up among several of the officers, "Were there any shots fired?" And I said, "Well, they sounded like rifle shots to me." At the time no one knew---in our crowd they were sure the shots had been fired though because of the reports---we heard the noise, and I left then and went back up here and came back onto the street.
There is a difference between a DPD "Officer" and a DPD Motorcycle Officer. A DPD motorcycle officer always wears a DPD UNIFORM and wears a White Helmet. DPD Officer Buddy Walthers and DPD Officer Roger Craig were wearing dress suits that day. DPD Officer Luke Mooney was also wearing a dress suit. All 3 of these DPD Officers were wearing suits and were back inside the railroad yard immediately after the kill shot. There were other DPD Officers back inside the railroad yard that were wearing suits. This is what Buddy Walthers was referring to. DPD Officers that were wearing suits.
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There is a difference between a DPD "Officer" and a DPD Motorcycle Officer. A DPD motorcycle officer always wears a DPD UNIFORM and wears a White Helmet. DPD Officer Buddy Walthers and DPD Officer Roger Craig were wearing dress suits that day. DPD Officer Luke Mooney was also wearing a dress suit. All 3 of these DPD Officers were wearing suits and were back inside the railroad yard immediately after the kill shot. There were other DPD Officers back inside the railroad yard that were wearing suits. This is what Buddy Walthers was referring to. DPD Officers that were wearing suits.
Walthers and Craig were not Dallas Police Department officers. They were deputies of the Dallas Sheriffs Department, a completely different agency.
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Nat Geo (8:55 - 8:57) & "The Full Darnell Film" by - "The JFK Theorist" (23:32 - 23:40)
Nat Geo - Shows the Elm St Extension to be empty of people. Amos Euins is sitting inside Inspector Sawyer's car and Officer Harkness's 3 wheel motorcycle is double parked next to Inspector Sawyer's Car. (Time Stamp)
"The Full Darnell Film" - Shows the Elm St Extension now jammed with people. Officer Harkness is filmed providing security behind the TSBD. (Time Stamp)
Yeah. About that:
The segment in the Nat Geo episode you refer to shows a DPD officer walking by in a blue hat carrying a shotgun. The blue hat marks the officer as a member of the DPD patrol division. The shotgun was issued to the guys manning patrol cruisers, and was carried in the cars. Security of the motorcade route was given to the white-hatted traffic division. The patrol division officers provided security in the Trade Mart, or were out on normal patrol.
What this boils down to is that the office you see in the Nat Geo snippet is one of the patrol officers sent to Dealey Plaza by the dispatcher, but they don't start arriving until 12:45 at the earliest. That is the very earliest the Nat Geo segment could have possibly occurred, and it was likely taken even later. In the end, it doesn't further your notions at all.
After 62+ years, I can understand you're having problems accepting that which has been right in front of you. But there it is, right there. The Elm St Ext is jammed with people.
Again, if you actually look at the Darnell film, you see that the crowd of people is south of where the ESX is already turned northeast. You can actually see a car parked on the north side of the ESX to the left of the crowd. That wouldn't happen if the street was as packed with people as you'd like to believe.
Also again, when Martin is filming Harkness driving Euins down the street, he is standing directly south of the TSBD annex. You can tell by how close the red gates are. That puts Martin to the east of where the crown in Darnell is gathered. The following image shows the area where the Darnell crowd was gathered in red, with Martin's position marked with a red lower-case "m".
(https://i.postimg.cc/DyGNcV8S/Darnell-Film-Harkness-and-Martin-Position.jpg)
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The Elm Ext is absolutely jammed with people. You can even see people stretching across it in front of the Huge Gates.
And remember that the Nat Geo piece you are claiming was long after the kill shot, also shows Officer Harkness #99 3 wheel motorcycle sitting alongside Inspector Sawyer's car. The later you put the Harkness 3 Wheel Motorcycle sitting on the Elm St Ext, the LATER you put Harkness & Officer Haygood being filmed together on the Darnell Film Snippet. Far, Far later than the 12:35 Haygood police radio transmission. And, the alleged Officer Haygood was filmed with Roger Craig and Buddy Walthers walking along that entire stretch of train cars before they reach the Officer Harkness check point. How late are you NOW putting Roger Craig and Walthers back inside the train yard? And Walthers was photo'd at 12:39 on Elm St looking around the manhole cover on the (S) side of Elm St. How are you putting Walthers inside the train yard that late, and then having him photo'd at the manhole cover at 12:39? You got seriously conflicting timeline issues. Big time!
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There is a difference between a DPD "Officer" and a DPD Motorcycle Officer. A DPD motorcycle officer always wears a DPD UNIFORM and wears a White Helmet. DPD Officer Buddy Walthers and DPD Officer Roger Craig were wearing dress suits that day. DPD Officer Luke Mooney was also wearing a dress suit. All 3 of these DPD Officers were wearing suits and were back inside the railroad yard immediately after the kill shot. There were other DPD Officers back inside the railroad yard that were wearing suits. This is what Buddy Walthers was referring to. DPD Officers that were wearing suits.
This is what Buddy Walthers was referring to. DPD Officers that were wearing suits.
Now your knowledge knows no bounds, now it extends to reading the minds of the witnesses, how convenient.
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This is a partial list of the motorcycle cops present that day.
The motorcade consisted of numerous cars, police motorcycles and press
buses:
Included in this group of officers were:
Three two-wheel Dallas police motorcycle officers under the command of
Sgt. S. Q. Bellah.
Five two-wheel motorcycle officers.
Four Dallas Police motorcycle escorts, two on each side of the
presidential limousine, flanking the rear bumper: Billy Joe Martin and
Robert W. “Bobby” Hargis (left), and James M. Chaney and Douglas L.
Jackson (right).[107]
Dallas Police motorcycle escorts
H.B. McLain and Marion L. Baker.
Dallas Police motorcycle escorts J.W. Courson and C.A. Haygood.
Dallas Police motorcycle escorts R. Smart and B.J. Dale.
Solo three-wheel Dallas Police motorcycle escort.
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Most of the officers were never interviewed. Making a blanket assertion that you know what Detective Walthers thought or meant based on a photo is ridiculous. To conclude that a snapshot of an officer walking somehow indicates he was part of this wild eyed conspiracy is beyond rational.
There is absolutely nothing that can be learned from a snapshot photo as to who was where and when. Let alone develope a conspiracy theory based on a photo of someone you seem unable to explain.
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Officer Harkness gave WC Testimony. He details the order in which he did things after the kill shot. And YOU wanted to use the Nat Geo snippet as evidence? Unfortunately, you were unaware that the snippet shows the Harkness 3 Wheel Motorcycle double parked right next to Inspector Sawyer's car. Why? Because Harkness helped load Euins into Inspector Sawyer's car. Time? 12:37 PM. From this point, Harkness helped secure the area behind the TSBD. This is where we see him and the alleged Officer Haygood on the Darnell Film. Time? 12:38 PM. It is impossible for Officer Haygood to be inside the railroad yard at 12:38. And remember that we see this same cop earlier on the Darnell Film. It is impossible for Haygood to be back inside the railroad yard at 12:37 PM. Haygood made a documented 12:35 radio transmission from his motorcycle parked near the Triple Underpass. From 12:35 PM on, Haygood was conducting interviews near his motorcycle. Tague's testimony corroborates this. I have steadfastly been all over this issue for 2+ years now. Every single piece of evidence I continue to gather further Proves the DPD motorcycle cop on the Darnell Film can Not be Haygood.
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Officer Harkness gave WC Testimony. He details the order in which he did things after the kill shot. And YOU wanted to use the Nat Geo snippet as evidence? Unfortunately, you were unaware that the snippet shows the Harkness 3 Wheel Motorcycle double parked right next to Inspector Sawyer's car. Why? Because Harkness helped load Euins into Inspector Sawyer's car. Time? 12:37 PM. From this point, Harkness helped secure the area behind the TSBD. This is where we see him and the alleged Officer Haygood on the Darnell Film. Time? 12:38 PM. It is impossible for Officer Haygood to be inside the railroad yard at 12:38. And remember that we see this same cop earlier on the Darnell Film. It is impossible for Haygood to be back inside the railroad yard at 12:37 PM. Haygood made a documented 12:35 radio transmission from his motorcycle parked near the Triple Underpass. From 12:35 PM on, Haygood was conducting interviews near his motorcycle. Tague's testimony corroborates this. I have steadfastly been all over this issue for 2+ years now. Every single piece of evidence I continue to gather further Proves the DPD motorcycle cop on the Darnell Film can Not be Haygood.
For the sake of argument, let's say you are correct that the motorcycle cop is not Haygood. What difference does that make?
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For the sake of argument, let's say you are correct that the motorcycle cop is not Haygood. What difference does that make?
"What difference does that make?". Your asking that question says a lot regarding your limited foundational knowledge of the JFK Assassination. You merit your seat at the kiddie table. Put in the time and do the research.
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Officer Harkness gave WC Testimony. He details the order in which he did things after the kill shot. And YOU wanted to use the Nat Geo snippet as evidence? Unfortunately, you were unaware that the snippet shows the Harkness 3 Wheel Motorcycle double parked right next to Inspector Sawyer's car. Why? Because Harkness helped load Euins into Inspector Sawyer's car. Time? 12:37 PM. From this point, Harkness helped secure the area behind the TSBD. This is where we see him and the alleged Officer Haygood on the Darnell Film. Time? 12:38 PM. It is impossible for Officer Haygood to be inside the railroad yard at 12:38. And remember that we see this same cop earlier on the Darnell Film. It is impossible for Haygood to be back inside the railroad yard at 12:37 PM. Haygood made a documented 12:35 radio transmission from his motorcycle parked near the Triple Underpass. From 12:35 PM on, Haygood was conducting interviews near his motorcycle. Tague's testimony corroborates this. I have steadfastly been all over this issue for 2+ years now. Every single piece of evidence I continue to gather further Proves the DPD motorcycle cop on the Darnell Film can Not be Haygood.
Every single piece of evidence I continue to gather further Proves the DPD motorcycle cop on the Darnell Film can Not be Haygood.
and that means what? That there was another DPD cop in Dealey Plaza?
--------------------------------
Most likely there are others but so far two different officers, Walters and Harkness, both made the same claim that there were a number of officers present behind the TSBD. Your claim was that only Harkness and Haygood were there. Obviously, that is not true. The other officers, if interviewed, would have made the same claim. You also made the claim that only detectives in suits were present, but that also is not true.
Det. Walters
Mr. WALTHERS. And at that time I heard the shots as well as everybody else, but as we got over this fence, and a lot of officers and people were just rummaging through the train yards back in this parking area.
Mr. LIEBELER. In the parking area down there? West of the Texas School Book Depository Building between the Texas School Book Depository and the railroad tracks?
Mr. WALTHERS. Yes; and the discussion came up among several of the officers, "Were there any shots fired?" And I said, "Well, they sounded like rifle shots to me." At the time no one knew---in our crowd they were sure the shots had been fired though because of the reports---we heard the noise, and I left then and went back up here and came back onto the street.
DPD Harkness
Mr. BELIN - Had the building been sealed off at that time?
Mr. HARKNESS - Not to my knowledge. There were several officers around it, but I don't know whether it had been sealed off or not.
Mr. BELIN - In the process of sealing off the building, what did you do?
Mr. HARKNESS - Asked for a squad.
Mr. BELIN - How long did it take you after that to have the back part sealed off?
Mr. HARKNESS - The guard was arriving by the time I got off my motorcycle. There was already additional squads en route.
Mr. BELIN - How soon after 12:36 p.m., would you say the building was sealed off?
Mr. HARKNESS - It was sealed off then because I was back there and two other men.
Exactly what is the point you are trying to make with the photo that you reference? Currently it seems the only point is that you do not have a point other than there is maybe or maybe not an unidentified officer in a photo taken after the assassination.
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Every single piece of evidence I continue to gather further Proves the DPD motorcycle cop on the Darnell Film can Not be Haygood.
and that means what? That there was another DPD cop in Dealey Plaza?
--------------------------------
Most likely there are others but so far two different officers, Walters and Harkness, both made the same claim that there were a number of officers present behind the TSBD. Your claim was that only Harkness and Haygood were there. Obviously, that is not true. The other officers, if interviewed, would have made the same claim. You also made the claim that only detectives in suits were present, but that also is not true.
Det. Walters
Mr. WALTHERS. And at that time I heard the shots as well as everybody else, but as we got over this fence, and a lot of officers and people were just rummaging through the train yards back in this parking area.
Mr. LIEBELER. In the parking area down there? West of the Texas School Book Depository Building between the Texas School Book Depository and the railroad tracks?
Mr. WALTHERS. Yes; and the discussion came up among several of the officers, "Were there any shots fired?" And I said, "Well, they sounded like rifle shots to me." At the time no one knew---in our crowd they were sure the shots had been fired though because of the reports---we heard the noise, and I left then and went back up here and came back onto the street.
DPD Harkness
Mr. BELIN - Had the building been sealed off at that time?
Mr. HARKNESS - Not to my knowledge. There were several officers around it, but I don't know whether it had been sealed off or not.
Mr. BELIN - In the process of sealing off the building, what did you do?
Mr. HARKNESS - Asked for a squad.
Mr. BELIN - How long did it take you after that to have the back part sealed off?
Mr. HARKNESS - The guard was arriving by the time I got off my motorcycle. There was already additional squads en route.
Mr. BELIN - How soon after 12:36 p.m., would you say the building was sealed off?
Mr. HARKNESS - It was sealed off then because I was back there and two other men.
Exactly what is the point you are trying to make with the photo that you reference? Currently it seems the only point is that you do not have a point other than there is maybe or maybe not an unidentified officer in a photo taken after the assassination.
You are confused. Officer Haygood was a MOTORCYCLE Officer. He is supposed to be the Only MOTORCYCLE Officer, (WHITE HELMET), back inside the Rail Road yard immediately following the kill shot. You keep referencing "Officers" or "DPD Cops" being back inside the rail road yard. Those law enforcement officers you mention are NOT MOTORCYCLE Officers. There is supposed to be only 1 MOTORCYCLE Officer back inside the railroad yard during this time period. That would be HAYGOOD. The MOTORCYCLE Officer, (White Helmet), we see with Officer Harkness in the Darnell still frame is alleged to be MOTORCYCLE Officer Haygood. I have documented the timestamp of this Darnell still frame image being 12:38 PM. Haygood made a 12:35 police radio transmission from his motorcycle parked near the Triple Underpass. Haygood then stayed right there and interviewed assassination witnesses. Couch filmed Haygood being in this position when Couch traveled down Elm St. for the 2nd time. The 12:38 PM time stamp of the images showing Haygood with Harkness is Impossible. Haygood can not be in 2 places at the same time. That ain't Haygood with Officer Harkness on the Darnell Film. What we are seeing is an impostor. Where is this motorcycle cop's motorcycle? He has none. He is a phony. The timelines of Buddy Walthers and Harkness, (both were filmed by Darnell with this Phony Motorcycle Cop), corroborate my 12:38 time stamp.
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You are confused. Officer Haygood was a MOTORCYCLE Officer. He is supposed to be the Only MOTORCYCLE Officer, (WHITE HELMET), back inside the Rail Road yard immediately following the kill shot. You keep referencing "Officers" or "DPD Cops" being back inside the rail road yard. Those law enforcement officers you mention are NOT MOTORCYCLE Officers. There is supposed to be only 1 MOTORCYCLE Officer back inside the railroad yard during this time period. That would be HAYGOOD. The MOTORCYCLE Officer, (White Helmet), we see with Officer Harkness in the Darnell still frame is alleged to be MOTORCYCLE Officer Haygood. I have documented the timestamp of this Darnell still frame image being 12:38 PM. Haygood made a 12:35 police radio transmission from his motorcycle parked near the Triple Underpass. Haygood then stayed right there and interviewed assassination witnesses. Couch filmed Haygood being in this position when Couch traveled down Elm St. for the 2nd time. The 12:38 PM time stamp of the images showing Haygood with Harkness is Impossible. Haygood can not be in 2 places at the same time. That ain't Haygood with Officer Harkness on the Darnell Film. What we are seeing is an impostor. Where is this motorcycle cop's motorcycle? He has none. He is a phony. The timelines of Buddy Walthers and Harkness, (both were filmed by Darnell with this Phony Motorcycle Cop), corroborate my 12:38 time stamp.
"Officer Haygood was a MOTORCYCLE Officer. He is supposed to be the Only MOTORCYCLE Officer, (WHITE HELMET), back inside the Rail Road yard immediately following the kill shot"
Supposed to be? Were they assigned certain positions in case the President was shot while in Dealey Plaza? The net result was they went where they thought they would be needed.
It increasingly appears you want a certain narrative, and the information (Photo) is being twisted to support your predetermined theory.
There were motorcycle cops all over Dealey Plaza'
This is a partial list of the motorcycle cops present that day.
The motorcade consisted of numerous cars, police motorcycles and press
buses:
Included in this group of officers were:
Three two-wheel Dallas police motorcycle officers under the command of
Sgt. S. Q. Bellah.
Five two-wheel motorcycle officers.
Four Dallas Police motorcycle escorts, two on each side of the
presidential limousine, flanking the rear bumper: Billy Joe Martin and
Robert W. “Bobby” Hargis (left), and James M. Chaney and Douglas L.
Jackson (right).[107]
Dallas Police motorcycle escorts
H.B. McLain and Marion L. Baker.
Dallas Police motorcycle escorts J.W. Courson and C.A. Haygood.
Dallas Police motorcycle escorts R. Smart and B.J. Dale.
Solo three-wheel Dallas Police motorcycle escort.
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Please stop with all the cops here, there, and everywhere. Everybody and Anybody with even a somewhat limited knowledge of the JFK Assassination KNOWS that Officer Haygood was the only MOTORCYCLE, (White Helmet), Cop back inside the rail road yard immediately after the kill shot. This is and never has been in dispute. Now, if you want to ID this alleged Motorcycle Cop that is filmed at the same time as Walthers, Roger Craig, and Harkness back inside the rail road yard, I would seriously be very interested in seeing a Name attached to this alleged motorcycle cop. This is why I consistently ask, "where is his motorcycle"? He has no motorcycle. Why? Because he is an impostor.
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"What difference does that make?". Your asking that question says a lot regarding your limited foundational knowledge of the JFK Assassination. You merit your seat at the kiddie table. Put in the time and do the research.
Your inability to answer such a simple question says a lot about you.
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Your inability to answer such a simple question says a lot about you.
After 62+ yrs, I have proven there was an impostor masquerading as a motorcycle cop inside the railroad yard immediately after the kill shot. And you ask, "What difference does that make"? Are you aware of anyone that on 11/22/63, had a DPD motorcycle cop uniform just laying around and decided to wear it inside Dealey Plaza? And then, after the kill shot, for whatever reason, decided to race back deep inside the railroad yard? Getting back inside there BEFORE anyone connected to law enforcement managed to get back there? That Phony Motorcycle Cop was in costume, back inside the railroad yard before the kill shot. The proof of this Masquerading Motorcycle Cop proves a conspiracy. This is right in line with the Rob Reiner presentation.
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RS: I am talking about the dirt road portion of the Elm St Extension.
So why did you bring up the limo turn and traffic signal in the Wegman film?
there are NO BOLLARDS between Officer Harkness and this alleged motorcycle cop.
Yes there are! Not only can you see many of them in the Darnell film, others are made obvious when the motorcycle cop walks behind them.
Here, bollards are outlined in red. Note that one is in Harkness' shadow:
(https://i.postimg.cc/Fs658FVF/Haygood-RR-Yard-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Tpn4W6sB)
Here, "B" marks where the line of bollards is. You can see that two of them are silhouetted by the MC as he walks behind them:
(https://i.postimg.cc/sDLdqf4g/Haygood-RR-Yard-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jLyFJb1p)
Here he is a half step later:
(https://i.postimg.cc/c4zy21B4/Haygood-RR-Yard-3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tYFMVjcL)
Above, we see the "Masquerading Motorcycle Cop". He is quickly moving past Officer Harkness, as Harkness looks to the (L). This impostor is avoiding making eye contact with Harkness.
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Above, we see the "Masquerading Motorcycle Cop". He is quickly moving past Officer Harkness, as Harkness looks to the (L). This impostor is avoiding making eye contact with Harkness.
Dear Royell,
Did Peter Dale Scott's, Oliver Stone's, and Alex Jones' evil, evil "Deep State" kill JFK, or did Alex Jones' (sic), Steve Bannon's, and Donald Trump's evil, evil "Administrative State" kill him?
-- Tom
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After 62+ yrs, I have proven there was an impostor masquerading as a motorcycle cop inside the railroad yard immediately after the kill shot.
You've proved it to your satisfaction which is a rather low bar. But let's give you the benefit of the doubt and say that is not Officer Haygood. That's a long way from proving conspiracy. You would first need to prove who it is and that it is not a DPD officer. Then you would have to prove that this person was working with the assassin Lee Harvey Oswald. You've got some work to do.
And you ask, "What difference does that make"? Are you aware of anyone that on 11/22/63, had a DPD motorcycle cop uniform just laying around and decided to wear it inside Dealey Plaza?
I don't have to be aware of any such thing. The burden is on you to prove your hypothesis. You apparently have proved it to your satisfaction, but if you expect anyone to take you seriously, you'll have to do better than that.
And then, after the kill shot, for whatever reason, decided to race back deep inside the railroad yard? Getting back inside there BEFORE anyone connected to law enforcement managed to get back there? That Phony Motorcycle Cop was in costume, back inside the railroad yard before the kill shot. The proof of this Masquerading Motorcycle Cop proves a conspiracy. This is right in line with the Rob Reiner presentation.
Your approach is typical of what I have seen in 35 years of engaging with conspiracy hobbyists. You treat every anomaly, every unexplained event as proof of a conspiracy. It isn't enough to raise questions. You need to find answers if you want to prove your case. You don't get to say, we don't know the answer to these questions so the answer must be that there was a conspiracy. Sorry, but conspiracy is not the default answer for every unexplained question raised. You need to prove that the cop in question is not a DPD cop and that he was a co-conspirator in the assassination of JFK. But that is a step conspiracy hobbyists never take and few even bother to try. You don't prove anything simply by raising questions. You have to prove the answers to the questions you raise. You haven't even come close.
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You've proved it to your satisfaction which is a rather low bar. But let's give you the benefit of the doubt and say that is not Officer Haygood. That's a long way from proving conspiracy. You would first need to prove who it is and that it is not a DPD officer. Then you would have to prove that this person was working with the assassin Lee Harvey Oswald. You've got some work to do.
I don't have to be aware of any such thing. The burden is on you to prove your hypothesis. You apparently have proved it to your satisfaction, but if you expect anyone to take you seriously, you'll have to do better than that.
Your approach is typical of what I have seen in 35 years of engaging with conspiracy hobbyists. You treat every anomaly, every unexplained event as proof of a conspiracy. It isn't enough to raise questions. You need to find answers if you want to prove your case. You don't get to say, we don't know the answer to these questions so the answer must be that there was a conspiracy. Sorry, but conspiracy is not the default answer for every unexplained question raised. You need to prove that the cop in question is not a DPD cop and that he was a co-conspirator in the assassination of JFK. But that is a step conspiracy hobbyists never take and few even bother to try. You don't prove anything simply by raising questions. You have to prove the answers to the questions you raise. You haven't even come close.
Let me get this straight. After 62+ years, NO MOTORCYCLE COP, (including Haygood), has EVER identified themselves as being the "One Glove Cop" filmed by Darnell? And you want to cavalierly describe this as being a mere "anomaly"? Again, Haygood was the ONLY MOTORCYCLE COP back inside the railroad yard immediately after the kill shot. That makes this "One Glove Cop" filmed by Darnell an impostor. And, when we last see this out-of-uniform, no motorcycle cop, he is heading Directly toward the TSBD. 1+1 = Conspiracy.
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Let me get this straight. After 62+ years, NO MOTORCYCLE COP, (including Haygood), has EVER identified themselves as being the "One Glove Cop" filmed by Darnell? And you want to cavalierly describe this as being a mere "anomaly"? Again, Haygood was the ONLY MOTORCYCLE COP back inside the railroad yard immediately after the kill shot. That makes this "One Glove Cop" filmed by Darnell an impostor. And, when we last see this out-of-uniform, no motorcycle cop, he is heading Directly toward the TSBD. 1+1 = Conspiracy.
Your position is completely illogical, which is also typical for conspiracy hobbyists. The fact that the officer in question cannot be positively identified is not proof that it was not a DPD officer. Absence of proof is not proof of absence. If we accept your "proof" that it is not Officer Haygood, that in no way proves it is not a DPD officer. The rest of your thought process completely escapes me. I see no semblance of logical thinking in your conclusion that "1 +1 = conspiracy". You continue to assert things you are unable to prove.
Do not misconstrue my comments that I have accepted your premise that the Officer in question is NOT Officer Haygood. From my perspective, it might or might not be Haygood. I don't have proof positive one way or another although if I were to place a bet on this issue, i would bet it is Officer Haygood and your argument that it is not is as illogical as all your other conclusions. Conspiracy hobbyists tend to gravitate toward their preconceived belief of a conspiracy. Their line of thinking goes something like this:
If A is true, B must be true.
If B is true, C must be true.
If C is true, there must have been a conspiracy.
They arbitrarily dismiss other plausible explanations of B and do the same with other plausible explanations for C. That doesn't make for a very compelling argument.
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Please stop with all the cops here, there, and everywhere. Everybody and Anybody with even a somewhat limited knowledge of the JFK Assassination KNOWS that Officer Haygood was the only MOTORCYCLE, (White Helmet), Cop back inside the rail road yard immediately after the kill shot. This is and never has been in dispute. Now, if you want to ID this alleged Motorcycle Cop that is filmed at the same time as Walthers, Roger Craig, and Harkness back inside the rail road yard, I would seriously be very interested in seeing a Name attached to this alleged motorcycle cop. This is why I consistently ask, "where is his motorcycle"? He has no motorcycle. Why? Because he is an impostor.
If only that was true. Then you would actually have a point to make, but it isn't so you do not. There were all types of cops present in Dealey Plaza, which is really unfortunate for this off-the-wall theory.
In two years of your advanced research skills, you would have thought you would have taken the time to read what DPD Harkness had to report. DPD Harkness is the one person whose testimony you should have paid the most attention to. DPD Harkness was in charge of a number of Motorcycle cops from the Airport to Dealey Plaza. He establishes the fact that motorcycle cops were present in many locations and especially were already behind the TSBD as he asked for additional personnel.
Thinking DPD Haygood was the only motorcycle cop in Dealey Plaza is delusional based on the desire to make some kind of bizarre contribution to the JFKA.
How about loose the conspiracy desperation and familiarize yourself with the people who were there. When you read their testimonies, an entirely different picture emerges than the one you are promoting.
So as not to confuse, I will just post the basic info that shows there were cops of all types all over the area. Basing anything on an isolated picture and declaring that it represents the whole of event is ridiculous.
Mr. HARKNESS - Supervising the traffic officers from Main and Field along the parade route to Elm and Houston
Mr. BELIN - Had the building been sealed off at that time?
Mr. HARKNESS - Not to my knowledge. There were several officers around it, but I don't know whether it had been sealed off or not.
Mr. WALTHERS. And at that time I heard the shots as well as everybody else, but as we got over this fence, and a lot of officers and people were just rummaging through the train yards back in this parking area.
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Your position is completely illogical, which is also typical for conspiracy hobbyists. The fact that the officer in question cannot be positively identified is not proof that it was not a DPD officer. Absence of proof is not proof of absence. If we accept your "proof" that it is not Officer Haygood, that in no way proves it is not a DPD officer. The rest of your thought process completely escapes me. I see no semblance of logical thinking in your conclusion that "1 +1 = conspiracy". You continue to assert things you are unable to prove.
Do not misconstrue my comments that I have accepted your premise that the Officer in question is NOT Officer Haygood. From my perspective, it might or might not be Haygood. I don't have proof positive one way or another although if I were to place a bet on this issue, i would bet it is Officer Haygood and your argument that it is not is as illogical as all your other conclusions. Conspiracy hobbyists tend to gravitate toward their preconceived belief of a conspiracy. Their line of thinking goes something like this:
If A is true, B must be true.
If B is true, C must be true.
If C is true, there must have been a conspiracy.
They arbitrarily dismiss other plausible explanations of B and do the same with other plausible explanations for C. That doesn't make for a very compelling argument.
How about separating yourself from the rank-n-file and expanding your currently limited JFK Assassination knowledge? If you look at Haygood's WC Testimony, his description of what he did inside the railroad yard do Not come close to matching what we see that Counterfeit Motorcycle Cop doing on the Darnell Film. After that, take a look at the Cancellare Photo of Haygood standing atop the Triple Underpass. This pic was snapped Before Haygood jumped down into the railroad yard. Haygood is clearly wearing 2 gloves in that photo. When we 1st see the Counterfeit Cop on the Darnell Film, he is wearing only 1 Glove. The distance between the top of the triple underpass and where we see the counterfeit cop for the very 1st time is only about 40 yds. About the same distance as from a MLB Home Plate to 2nd Base. What would cause Haygood to remove 1 glove over the course of that extremely limited distance? Nothing would. We are seeing 2 different people in the Cancellare Photo and the Darnell Film. And when you get done reading the Haygood WC testimony, take a look at Tague's WC Testimony. He had a very good view of Haygood from the point of his dumping his motorcycle at the Elm St. curb, to Haygood returning back to his motorcycle. Again, do the research. Raise your bar.
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How about separating yourself from the rank-n-file and expanding your currently limited JFK Assassination knowledge? If you look at Haygood's WC Testimony, his description of what he did inside the railroad yard do Not come close to matching what we see that Counterfeit Motorcycle Cop doing on the Darnell Film. After that, take a look at the Cancellare Photo of Haygood standing atop the Triple Underpass. This pic was snapped Before Haygood jumped down into the railroad yard. Haygood is clearly wearing 2 gloves in that photo. When we 1st see the Counterfeit Cop on the Darnell Film, he is wearing only 1 Glove. The distance between the top of the triple underpass and where we see the counterfeit cop for the very 1st time is only about 40 yds. About the same distance as from a MLB Home Plate to 2nd Base.
You continue to assert, without evidence, that the cop in the Darnell film was "Counterfeit".
FYI: The distance between the back point of home plate and the center of second base is roughly 127' 3". I say roughly because the actual distance is an irrational number. If we are talking about from the front of home plate to the nearest point on second base, subtract 38 inches. Again, an irrationals number.
What would cause Haygood to remove 1 glove over the course of that extremely limited distance? Nothing would. We are seeing 2 different people in the Cancellare Photo and the Darnell Film. And when you get done reading the Haygood WC testimony, take a look at Tague's WC Testimony. He had a very good view of Haygood from the point of his dumping his motorcycle at the Elm St. curb, to Haygood returning back to his motorcycle. Again, do the research. Raise your bar.
Here is a perfect example of one of your illogical assumptions. Because you can't think of a reason Haygood would have taken off his glove, you assume he didn't take off his glove. The possibilities are not limited by your inability to think of any.
Your call for me to "do the research" is simply you attempting to shift the burden of proof to me when it is you who are proposing the hypothesis. When you propose a hypothesis, the burden is on you to provide the proof. No one else has the burden of disproving it. You've never seemed to understand that.
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RS: I am talking about the dirt road portion of the Elm St Extension.
So why did you bring up the limo turn and traffic signal in the Wegman film?
there are NO BOLLARDS between Officer Harkness and this alleged motorcycle cop.
Yes there are! Not only can you see many of them in the Darnell film, others are made obvious when the motorcycle cop walks behind them.
Here, bollards are outlined in red. Note that one is in Harkness' shadow:
(https://i.postimg.cc/Fs658FVF/Haygood-RR-Yard-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Tpn4W6sB)
Here, "B" marks where the line of bollards is. You can see that two of them are silhouetted by the MC as he walks behind them:
(https://i.postimg.cc/sDLdqf4g/Haygood-RR-Yard-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jLyFJb1p)
Here he is a half step later:
(https://i.postimg.cc/c4zy21B4/Haygood-RR-Yard-3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tYFMVjcL)
The alleged motorcycle cop we see above is missing 1 glove. Motorcycle Officer Haygood was wearing both gloves that day. And just what is this alleged motorcycle cop holding in the other hand? What's the purpose of his suddenly displaying this object? He was Not holding it earlier when Darnell filmed him walking along the string of passenger train cars.
The above Darnell still frame has a 12:34 PM timestamp. It is physically impossible for Motorcycle Officer Haygood and Officer Harkness to be filmed together at 12:34. Officer Harkness established the above security checkpoint after being ordered to do so by Inspector Sawyer. Inspector Sawyer did not arrive at the TSBD until 12:35 PM. There is NO WAY that Officer Haygood and Officer Harkness were filmed together at 12:34 PM. That is impossible. The alleged motorcycle officer above is an impostor.
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The alleged motorcycle cop we see above is missing 1 glove. Motorcycle Officer Haygood was wearing both gloves that day. And just what is this alleged motorcycle cop holding in the other hand? What's the purpose of his suddenly displaying this object? He was Not holding it earlier when Darnell filmed him walking along the string of passenger train cars.
The above Darnell still frame has a 12:34 PM timestamp. It is physically impossible for Motorcycle Officer Haygood and Officer Harkness to be filmed together at 12:34. Officer Harkness established the above security checkpoint after being ordered to do so by Inspector Sawyer. Inspector Sawyer did not arrive at the TSBD until 12:35 PM. There is NO WAY that Officer Haygood and Officer Harkness were filmed together at 12:34 PM. That is impossible. The alleged motorcycle officer above is an impostor.
Either an impostor or another cop whose name you don't know. I know which one I am betting on.
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Either an impostor or another cop whose name you don't know. I know which one I am betting on.
"Another cop"? When we 1st see him on the Darnell Film, he is deep inside the railroad yard, WALKING along the string of passenger train cars. When we last see him, he is leaving the railroad yard and WALKING toward/down the Elm St Ext. If this guy is really "another cop", where is his 2 Wheel Motorcycle? This "No Glove Cop"was Never attached to a 2 Wheel motorcycle. He is an impostor and heading toward the TSBD.
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"Another cop"? When we 1st see him on the Darnell Film, he is deep inside the railroad yard, WALKING along the string of passenger train cars. When we last see him, he is leaving the railroad yard and WALKING toward/down the Elm St Ext. If this guy is really "another cop", where is his 2 Wheel Motorcycle? This "No Glove Cop"was Never attached to a 2 Wheel motorcycle. He is an impostor and heading toward the TSBD.
Keep telling yourself that and maybe someday it will come true. Don't forget to tap your ruby slippers together.
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Either an impostor or another cop whose name you don't know. I know which one I am betting on.
Royell is part of the old guard and has been studying this case for many decades and since he and his clan have not found even a sliver of evidence for conspiracy, they are now reduced to making outlandish claims on whatever morsel they can find.
But here, at the end of the day, having an "imposter" officer parading around nearly five minutes later while wearing a helmet which sticks out like dogs proverbials goes where exactly?
What narrative actually fits an easy to find "imposter" suddenly turning up and taking off a glove and still walking around five minutes later? It's absurd!
JohnM
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Royell is part of the old guard and has been studying this case for many decades and since he and his clan have not found even a sliver of evidence for conspiracy, they are now reduced to making outlandish claims on whatever morsel they can find.
But here, at the end of the day, having an "imposter" officer parading around nearly five minutes later while wearing a helmet which sticks out like dogs proverbials goes where exactly?
What narrative actually fits an easy to find "imposter" suddenly turning up and taking off a glove and still walking around five minutes later? It's absurd!
JohnM
The above presents absolutely nothing to refute what I have proven. It is physically impossible for both Haygood and Harkness to be filmed together at 12:34 PM. We are Not seeing Motorcycle Officer Haygood on the Darnell Film.
The above claims this impostor was, "easy to find". If this were the case, why am I the only person to Ever discover that this charlatan was masquerading as a DPD Motorcycle Officer?
Regarding a narrative that fits this impostor, it's "crowd control". If you notice, the impostor paralleled Buddy Walthers and Roger Craig. He steadily stayed between them and the string of train cars. We can Not see inside those train cars. The train car windows do not permit seeing inside the passenger train cars from the outside. Do we know specifically what was inside each of those train cars following the kill shot? Have any of you seen any images of the inside of those train cars after the kill shot? I haven't. I also have Not seen any images of the other side of this string of train cars either. And, the top of those passenger train cars is a very high ground position relative to Elm St. And, Zapruder and Bill Newman reported shot(s) being fired from behind them. The string of passenger train cars were behind Zapruder and Bill Newman. A possible high ground firing position from inside the railroad yard was posed by Josiah Thompson when he interviewed Sitzman in 1966.
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The above presents absolutely nothing to refute what I have proven. It is physically impossible for both Haygood and Harkness to be filmed together at 12:34 PM. We are Not seeing Motorcycle Officer Haygood on the Darnell Film.
The above claims this impostor was, "easy to find". If this were the case, why am I the only person to Ever discover that this charlatan was masquerading as a DPD Motorcycle Officer?
Regarding a narrative that fits this impostor, it's "crowd control". If you notice, the impostor paralleled Buddy Walthers and Roger Craig. He steadily stayed between them and the string of train cars. We can Not see inside those train cars. The train car windows do not permit seeing inside the passenger train cars from the outside. Do we know specifically what was inside each of those train cars following the kill shot? Have any of you seen any images of the inside of those train cars after the kill shot? I haven't. I also have Not seen any images of the other side of this string of train cars either. And, the top of those passenger train cars is a very high ground position relative to Elm St. And, Zapruder and Bill Newman reported shot(s) being fired from behind them. The string of passenger train cars were behind Zapruder and Bill Newman. A possible high ground firing position from inside the railroad yard was posed by Josiah Thompson when he interviewed Sitzman in 1966.
Regarding a narrative that fits this impostor, it's "crowd control". If you notice, the impostor paralleled Buddy Walthers and Roger Craig.
Let me get this straight, the "imposter" Motorcycle Police Officer hung around and helped local law enforcement, and essentially did the job of a Police Officer? It's wonderful that this "imposter" was trained to do the job of a Police Officer!
He steadily stayed between them and the string of train cars.
Now you're going off at a completely tangent, how does this tie into the "imposter" doing his Police duties and helping the Sheriff's Deputies do "crowd control"? Or are you saying that five minutes later which was more than enough time for your "train car assassins" to escape, that the "imposter" was guiding the deputies away from the train cars?
We can Not see inside those train cars. The train car windows do not permit seeing inside the passenger train cars from the outside. Do we know specifically what was inside each of those train cars following the kill shot? Have any of you seen any images of the inside of those train cars after the kill shot? I haven't. I also have Not seen any images of the other side of this string of train cars either.
But didn't the three tramps come from a railyard boxcar, which means that not long after the boxcars were searched?
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/61/The_Three_Tramps.jpg)
(https://podcastjfk.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/JOhn-F-Elrod-Arrest-Record...-791x1024.jpg)
(https://i0.wp.com/podcastjfk.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Harold-Doyle-Tramp-1-Arrest-Record.gif?resize=790%2C1024&ssl=1)
BTW, when I said provide a narrative, I meant a plausible narrative, you know like the official narrative which is supported by a Mountain of Evidence where a Lone Nut simply took his rifle to work and killed the President!
JohnM
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The "Three Tramps" photos were 2+ hrs after the kill shot. Not remotely close to the time of the assassination. And, the "Three Tramps" were found inside a BOX CAR, not a PASSENGER TRAIN CAR.
You think the the impostor, "did the job of a police officer"? I guess he fooled you too. By paralleling Walthers and Craig, he gave them the false impression that he had the "securing" of the string of passenger train cars under control. Walthers and Roger Craig never made a move in the direction of those passenger train cars. Which is why this imposture was positioned back there. "Crowd Control" inside Dealey Plaza on 11/22/63 included keeping law enforcement under "control".
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To put this issue into an easier to interpret format, I made a GIF of the Darnell film and as can be seen, the Motorbike cop who is Haygood is on the move and covering a lot of ground quickly, and the other Police Officer who is supposedly Harkness isn't stationary but simply came up to the bollard boundary and turned around and equally moved away at speed.
And let's remember that Dealey Plaza isn't very big and the distance covered by Haygood wasn't very far and easily achievable in a couple of minutes. I think it was Charles in an earlier post, calculated the distance that Haygood travelled to be about 700 feet which is a little over 2 football fields, so yeah, not very far at all. Just checkout how fast Haygood is moving in the following GIF!
It's like the Tippit shooting, Oswald had enough time to reach Tippit and they both arrived at Patton and Tenth at the same time and likewise here, Haygood had enough time to do his round and arrive back at his bike to make his call.
After rereading the entirety of the relevant posts, this entire "mystery" relies on self serving timing interpretations, Royell's initial four minute Haygood timeline to reach the top of the Triple Underpass is the obvious example of one of his exaggerations and it all goes downhill from there.
(https://i.postimg.cc/05d8GMLT/Darnell-Haygood-Harkness.gif)
JohnM
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To put this issue into an easier to interpret format, I made a GIF of the Darnell film and as can be seen, the Motorbike cop who is Haygood is on the move and covering a lot of ground quickly, and the other Police Officer who is supposedly Harkness isn't stationary but simply came up to the bollard boundary and turned around and equally moved away at speed.
And let's remember that Dealey Plaza isn't very big and the distance covered by Haygood wasn't very far and easily achievable in a couple of minutes. I think it was Charles in an earlier post, calculated the distance that Haygood travelled to be about 700 feet which is a little over 2 football fields, so yeah, not very far at all. Just checkout how fast Haygood is moving in the following GIF!
It's like the Tippit shooting, Oswald had enough time to reach Tippit and they both arrived at Patton and Tenth at the same time and likewise here, Haygood had enough time to do his round and arrive back at his bike to make his call.
After rereading the entirety of the relevant posts, this entire "mystery" relies on self serving timing interpretations, Royell's initial four minute Haygood timeline to reach the top of the Triple Underpass is the obvious example of one of his exaggerations and it all goes downhill from there.
(https://i.postimg.cc/05d8GMLT/Darnell-Haygood-Harkness.gif)
JohnM
You've missed the KEY timeline involved. The dagger. That is the Officer Harkness timeline. Harkness details this in his WC Testimony. Harkness made a documented 12:36 police radio transmission. He basically said that he had a witness/Euins and that he was bringing him to the TSBD. (Martin Film). Harkness then helped load the witness/Euins into Inspector Sawyer's car which was parked in front of the TSBD. At this point, Harkness was instructed to secure the back of the TSBD.
Recap *** 12:36 - Harkness makes radio transmission saying "here I come". 12:37 - Harkness helps load Euins into Inspector Sawyer's car. 12:38 - Harkness is filmed with "Haygood?" behind the TSBD.
It is physically impossible for Darnell to have filmed Haygood with Harkness behind the TSBD. At 12:35, Haygood made a transmission from his motorcycle near the Triple Underpass. Haygood then stayed there interviewing witnesses. Couch documented Haygood remaining close to his motorcycle, when he filmed his 2nd trip down Elm St. Haygood is included in that 2nd Elm St run that was filmed by Couch. "The Nutty Professor" has also proffered a photo showing Harkness near his motorcycle during this same time period. We are Not seeing Officer Haygood with Officer Harkness on the Darnell Film. That motorcycle cop is not Haygood. It's physically impossible for Haygood to be in 2 different places at the same time.
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Correction- "HAYGOOD near his motorcycle during this same time period"
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RS: I am talking about the dirt road portion of the Elm St Extension.
So why did you bring up the limo turn and traffic signal in the Wegman film?
there are NO BOLLARDS between Officer Harkness and this alleged motorcycle cop.
Yes there are! Not only can you see many of them in the Darnell film, others are made obvious when the motorcycle cop walks behind them.
Here, bollards are outlined in red. Note that one is in Harkness' shadow:
(https://i.postimg.cc/Fs658FVF/Haygood-RR-Yard-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Tpn4W6sB)
Here, "B" marks where the line of bollards is. You can see that two of them are silhouetted by the MC as he walks behind them:
(https://i.postimg.cc/sDLdqf4g/Haygood-RR-Yard-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jLyFJb1p)
Here he is a half step later:
(https://i.postimg.cc/c4zy21B4/Haygood-RR-Yard-3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tYFMVjcL)
On the (R) we see Officer Harkness. This is his timeline.
12:36 - Officer Harkness makes a radio transmission that he is bringing an eyewitness/Amos Euins to the TSBD.
12:37 - Officer Harkness helps load Amos Euins into Inspector Sawyer's car in front of the TSBD
12:38 - Officer Harkness secures the back of the TSBD. (This is where we see him above in Darnell Film still frame)
It is physically impossible for the motorcycle officer above to be Officer Haygood. Officer Haygood was back at his motorcycle near the Triple Underpass at 12:38 conducting interviews. This was filmed/documented by Mal Couch. "The Nutty Professor" has also submitted a photo which further documents Motorcycle Officer Haygood being near the Triple Underpass during this same time period. The motorcycle cop above is Not Officer Haygood. That is physically impossible. Motorcycle Officer Haygood can NOT be in 2 places at the same time.
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Motorcycle Officer Haygood can NOT be in 2 places at the same time.
Royell Storing, Ralph Cinque and Jack White could not be in one place at the same time because they'd be arguing about which one was the altered versions of the original and which one was the spy doppelganger from Eastern Europe.
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Royell Storing, Ralph Cinque and Jack White could not be in one place at the same time because they'd be arguing about which one was the altered versions of the original and which one was the spy doppelganger from Eastern Europe.
I proffer Official Timelines. You? You instead go the insult route. Why? You simply can Not refute the official timelines that I have researched. How about you do some legit JFK Assassination Research? Show this forum some Evidence. Show this forum some Proof. I am waiting on you.
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RS: I am talking about the dirt road portion of the Elm St Extension.
So why did you bring up the limo turn and traffic signal in the Wegman film?
there are NO BOLLARDS between Officer Harkness and this alleged motorcycle cop.
Yes there are! Not only can you see many of them in the Darnell film, others are made obvious when the motorcycle cop walks behind them.
Here, bollards are outlined in red. Note that one is in Harkness' shadow:
(https://i.postimg.cc/Fs658FVF/Haygood-RR-Yard-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Tpn4W6sB)
Here, "B" marks where the line of bollards is. You can see that two of them are silhouetted by the MC as he walks behind them:
(https://i.postimg.cc/sDLdqf4g/Haygood-RR-Yard-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jLyFJb1p)
Here he is a half step later:
(https://i.postimg.cc/c4zy21B4/Haygood-RR-Yard-3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tYFMVjcL)
The Darnell still frame at the top, shows this Unknown Motorcycle Cop, (white helmet), to be carrying something in his (L) hand. It has been speculated that he is carrying a glove. A glove would flop around as this man walks forward swinging his arm. The object in his (L) hand steadfastly maintains the shape of a cylinder as this man swings his arm while walking. This object is Not a Glove.
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This object is Not a Glove.
Because you say so.
Whether the glove flopped around or not would depend on the stiffness of the glove. If that's a leather glove, and I think it would be, it's not going to flop around like a cloth glove. It seems a rather flimsy excuse for saying that cop is not Haygood.
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Because you say so.
Whether the glove flopped around or not would depend on the stiffness of the glove. If that's a leather glove, and I think it would be, it's not going to flop around like a cloth glove. It seems a rather flimsy excuse for saying that cop is not Haygood.
The missing glove vs the Cancellare Photo is one of Many Facts. The timelines of the film'd together, Haygood? + Harkness, + Walthers are also rock solid Facts. This is why a 2nd Haygood on foot, deep inside the railroad yard, has Now suddenly been invented. And this invented Haygood 2nd trip into the train yard, also changes the timeline of the Darnell film showing this motorcycle cop. But do you question any of this? Silly question.
Getting back to that (L) hand, I do not see him holding a possible glove. Whatever he's holding has a circular shape and is flat on the bottom as held. If this guy was wearing a glove on his (R) hand, in your wildest dreams, would you think that object in his (L) hand was a glove?
So now we suddenly have: (1) Haygood making a 2nd trip into the railroad yard, and, (2) a claimed motorcycle patrolman's "glove" that is somehow shaped like a cylinder. ALL because I have proven "That Ain't Haygood"!
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The missing glove vs the Cancellare Photo is one of Many Facts. The timelines of the film'd together, Haygood? + Harkness, + Walthers are also rock solid Facts. This is why a 2nd Haygood on foot, deep inside the railroad yard, has Now suddenly been invented. And this invented Haygood 2nd trip into the train yard, also changes the timeline of the Darnell film showing this motorcycle cop. But do you question any of this? Silly question.
Getting back to that (L) hand, I do not see him holding a possible glove. Whatever he's holding has a circular shape and is flat on the bottom as held. If this guy was wearing a glove on his (R) hand, in your wildest dreams, would you think that object in his (L) hand was a glove?
So now we suddenly have: (1) Haygood making a 2nd trip into the railroad yard, and, (2) a claimed motorcycle patrolman's "glove" that is somehow shaped like a cylinder. ALL because I have proven "That Ain't Haygood"!
Dear Royell,
Why are you trying so hard to "prove" that someone other than Lee Harvey Oswald killed "Commie Libtard" JFK?
If you'd been working at the TSBD at the time, wouldn't you, zombified MAGAT that you are, have tried to kill him yourself?
-- Tom
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Dear Royell,
Why are you trying so hard to "prove" that someone other than Lee Harvey Oswald killed "Commie Libtard" JFK?
If you'd been working at the TSBD at the time, wouldn't you, zombified MAGAT that you are, tried to kill him yourself?
-- Tom
Proving a conspiracy thru the Impostor Motorcycle Cop, does Not mean Oswald was not part of this conspiracy. We know for a Fact: (1) A sniper's nest was constructed on the TSBD 6th Floor, and, (2) The Huge Gates granting clandestine access and exit from the TSBD were "wide open". Both of these are easily within Oswald's TSBD job function.
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Proving a conspiracy thru the Impostor Motorcycle Cop, does Not mean Oswald was not part of this conspiracy. We know for a Fact: (1) A sniper's nest was constructed on the TSBD 6th Floor, and, (2) The Huge Gates granting clandestine access and exit from the TSBD were "wide open". Both of these are easily within Oswald's TSBD job function.
There's a big difference between a "fact" and what you, personally, consider one. You have "proven" diddly squat.. and in fact John Mytton has shown that your analysis is faulty in numerous ways.
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Dear Royell,
Why are you trying so hard to "prove" that someone other than Lee Harvey Oswald killed "Commie Libtard" JFK?
If you'd been working at the TSBD at the time, wouldn't you, zombified MAGAT that you are, have tried to kill him yourself?
-- Tom
Dear Gravedigger,
Why would the avowed Marxist commie Oswald want to kill a commie libtard JFK? Seems kind of counterproductive unless Oswald really thought JFK was an America 1st type president. Maybe Oswald was suffering from Kennedy Derangement Syndrome LOL.
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Dear Gravedigger,
Why would the avowed Marxist commie Oswald want to kill a commie libtard JFK? Seems kind of counterproductive unless Oswald really thought JFK was an America 1st type president. Maybe Oswald was suffering from Kennedy Derangement Syndrome LOL.
Dear Freon,
Maybe the fact that former Marine sharpshooter Oswald had lived half-a-mile from a KGB school in Minsk for two-and-a-half years had something to do with it.
In which case you may want to read chapter ten of Mark Riebling's 1994 book, Wedge: The Secret War Between the FBI and CIA.
https://archive.org/details/WedgeFromPearlHarborTo911HowTheSecretWarBetweenTheFBIAndCIAHasEndangeredNationalSecurity
But even if those fine folks in the KGB hadn't encouraged or "programmed" Oswald to kill General Walker and JFK, as a self-described Marxist he could have come up with his own reasons.
-- Tom
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Dear Gravedigger,
Why would the avowed Marxist commie Oswald want to kill a commie libtard JFK? Seems kind of counterproductive unless Oswald really thought JFK was an America 1st type president. Maybe Oswald was suffering from Kennedy Derangement Syndrome LOL.
JFK was anything but a libtard. In fact, he was the most conservative of the prominent candidates seeking the Democrat nomination for President in 1960. JFK was a friend and an ally of Nixon going back to their days as freshmen congressmen following their elections in 1946. JFK contributed $1000 to Nixon's Senate campaign in 1950. The Kennedys were close allies of Joe McCarthy even though they were from opposing parties. RFK was counsel on McCarthy's committee and McCarthy was godfather to RFK's first child. McCarthy even dated one the Kennedy sisters.
The liberal wing of the Democrat Party wanted anyone but Kennedy to lead the ticket. Truman was against him. Eleanor Roosevelt was so adamantly opposed to him that she refused to endorse him after he won the nomination, and only did so reluctantly late in the general election campaign. At first Humphrey opposed JFK in the primaries which back then only chose delegates in a few states. When Humphrey flamed out, the liberal wing turned to Stuart Symington as their hopeful. Some even wanted to give Adlai Stevenson a third bite of the apple. At the convention, the liberals were hoping LBJ and the southern Democrats could prevent JFK from getting a first ballot nomination and they could broker the convention to put a liberal at the top of the ticket. In the end all these efforts failed, much to the chagrin of the liberals.
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Dear Gravedigger,
Why would the avowed Marxist commie Oswald want to kill a commie libtard JFK? Seems kind of counterproductive unless Oswald really thought JFK was an America 1st type president. Maybe Oswald was suffering from Kennedy Derangement Syndrome LOL.
Why would we think crackpots think logically. Why did Mark Chapman kill John Lennon. Why did Charles Whitman climb the clock tower on the University of Texas campus and kill about dozen people at random and wound many more. Why do any of these rampage shooters do what they do. It makes no sense. Oswald had a motive. We just don't know what it was. It's fun to guess but we will never know. I have my own guess but that guess is no more or less valid than anybody else's. It is not necessary to prove motive in order to convict someone of murder. It can be useful in establishing premeditation, but still not necessary. The WC briefly speculated about possible motives for Oswald while recognizing it was speculation. They came to no conclusion about motive nor was it necessary to do so. They gave us ample evidence that Oswald committed the act. That's all we really need to know.
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RS: I am talking about the dirt road portion of the Elm St Extension.
So why did you bring up the limo turn and traffic signal in the Wegman film?
there are NO BOLLARDS between Officer Harkness and this alleged motorcycle cop.
Yes there are! Not only can you see many of them in the Darnell film, others are made obvious when the motorcycle cop walks behind them.
Here, bollards are outlined in red. Note that one is in Harkness' shadow:
(https://i.postimg.cc/Fs658FVF/Haygood-RR-Yard-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Tpn4W6sB)
Here, "B" marks where the line of bollards is. You can see that two of them are silhouetted by the MC as he walks behind them:
(https://i.postimg.cc/sDLdqf4g/Haygood-RR-Yard-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jLyFJb1p)
Here he is a half step later:
(https://i.postimg.cc/c4zy21B4/Haygood-RR-Yard-3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tYFMVjcL)
BUMP
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RS: I am talking about the dirt road portion of the Elm St Extension.
So why did you bring up the limo turn and traffic signal in the Wegman film?
there are NO BOLLARDS between Officer Harkness and this alleged motorcycle cop.
Yes there are! Not only can you see many of them in the Darnell film, others are made obvious when the motorcycle cop walks behind them.
Here, bollards are outlined in red. Note that one is in Harkness' shadow:
(https://i.postimg.cc/Fs658FVF/Haygood-RR-Yard-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Tpn4W6sB)
Here, "B" marks where the line of bollards is. You can see that two of them are silhouetted by the MC as he walks behind them:
(https://i.postimg.cc/sDLdqf4g/Haygood-RR-Yard-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jLyFJb1p)
Here he is a half step later:
(https://i.postimg.cc/c4zy21B4/Haygood-RR-Yard-3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tYFMVjcL)
BUMP For Steve Barber
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RS: I am talking about the dirt road portion of the Elm St Extension.
So why did you bring up the limo turn and traffic signal in the Wegman film?
there are NO BOLLARDS between Officer Harkness and this alleged motorcycle cop.
Yes there are! Not only can you see many of them in the Darnell film, others are made obvious when the motorcycle cop walks behind them.
Here, bollards are outlined in red. Note that one is in Harkness' shadow:
(https://i.postimg.cc/Fs658FVF/Haygood-RR-Yard-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Tpn4W6sB)
Here, "B" marks where the line of bollards is. You can see that two of them are silhouetted by the MC as he walks behind them:
(https://i.postimg.cc/sDLdqf4g/Haygood-RR-Yard-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jLyFJb1p)
Here he is a half step later:
(https://i.postimg.cc/c4zy21B4/Haygood-RR-Yard-3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tYFMVjcL)
We are NOW being told that the destination of this motorcycle cop is the TSBD Houston St loading dock. Why would he walk over there vs riding his motorcycle over there and securing the TSBD dock much quicker? Answer? This alleged motorcycle cop does Not have a motorcycle. He never did.
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This alleged motorcycle cop does Not have a motorcycle. He never did.
And you've never had a clue about the actual JFK film and photo evidence.
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RS: I am talking about the dirt road portion of the Elm St Extension.
So why did you bring up the limo turn and traffic signal in the Wegman film?
there are NO BOLLARDS between Officer Harkness and this alleged motorcycle cop.
Yes there are! Not only can you see many of them in the Darnell film, others are made obvious when the motorcycle cop walks behind them.
Here, bollards are outlined in red. Note that one is in Harkness' shadow:
(https://i.postimg.cc/Fs658FVF/Haygood-RR-Yard-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Tpn4W6sB)
Here, "B" marks where the line of bollards is. You can see that two of them are silhouetted by the MC as he walks behind them:
(https://i.postimg.cc/sDLdqf4g/Haygood-RR-Yard-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jLyFJb1p)
Here he is a half step later:
(https://i.postimg.cc/c4zy21B4/Haygood-RR-Yard-3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tYFMVjcL)
- ANATOMY OF A CONSPIRACY -
(1) This man is NOT a Motorcycle Cop
(2) This man is NOT holding a glove in his (L) hand
(3) This man does NOT have a motorcycle
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The Elm Ext is absolutely jammed with people. You can even see people stretching across it in front of the Huge Gates.
And remember that the Nat Geo piece you are claiming was long after the kill shot, also shows Officer Harkness #99 3 wheel motorcycle sitting alongside Inspector Sawyer's car. The later you put the Harkness 3 Wheel Motorcycle sitting on the Elm St Ext, the LATER you put Harkness & Officer Haygood being filmed together on the Darnell Film Snippet. Far, Far later than the 12:35 Haygood police radio transmission. And, the alleged Officer Haygood was filmed with Roger Craig and Buddy Walthers walking along that entire stretch of train cars before they reach the Officer Harkness check point. How late are you NOW putting Roger Craig and Walthers back inside the train yard? And Walthers was photo'd at 12:39 on Elm St looking around the manhole cover on the (S) side of Elm St. How are you putting Walthers inside the train yard that late, and then having him photo'd at the manhole cover at 12:39? You got seriously conflicting timeline issues. Big time!
RS: The Elm Ext is absolutely jammed with people.
Again, In the Darnell film you can see a white car parked on the north side of the Elm Street Extension. That wouldn't happen if the street were "jammed with people" Also, you can see people standing on the sidewalk running along the front of the TSBD. That also wouldn't be possible if the street was full of a crowd. Speaking of which:
RS: You can even see people stretching across it in front of the Huge Gates.
These are the aforementioned people standing on the sidewalk between the TSDB and the north side of Elm. They aren't in the street, ipso facto.
When Martin is filming Harkness driving by with Euins, he's to the east of the area in Darnell where the crowd appears. Because he's filming in an eastward direction, you won't see the Darnell crowd that is standing between the dirt road, the first RR yard spur, and the pergola.
RS: And remember that the Nat Geo piece you are claiming was long after the kill shot, also shows Officer Harkness #99 3 wheel motorcycle sitting alongside Inspector Sawyer's car.
As I've already pointed out, this is much later than the Darnell and Martin film segments in question here. No question after 12:45, and probably more like 1PM, when the DPD shoos the crowd away from in front of the TSBD and actually ropes off the area around the building. That is more than enough time for Harkness to put Euins in Sawyers car, drive to the north side of the TSBD, and return to the front after he was "relieved" by arriving officers.
RS: the Officer Harkness check point.
In the Darnell film, you first see Harkness looking west, then walking back towards his three-wheeler parked near the end of the cyclone fence. Not coincidentally, that's the area where Euins said that he ran into Harkness. Harkness explicitly testified that the area where he met Euins wasn't behind the depository. If that area wasn't behind the TSDB, then his earlier position to the west of his 3-wheeler was also not behind the depository. The Darnell snippet is just before Euins tells Harkness about the rifleman in the window, and Harkness will soon after radio this information to the dispatcher at 12:36
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RS: The Elm Ext is absolutely jammed with people.
Again, In the Darnell film you can see a white car parked on the north side of the Elm Street Extension. That wouldn't happen if the street were "jammed with people" Also, you can see people standing on the sidewalk running along the front of the TSBD. That also wouldn't be possible if the street was full of a crowd. Speaking of which:
RS: You can even see people stretching across it in front of the Huge Gates.
These are the aforementioned people standing on the sidewalk between the TSDB and the north side of Elm. They aren't in the street, ipso facto.
When Martin is filming Harkness driving by with Euins, he's to the east of the area in Darnell where the crowd appears. Because he's filming in an eastward direction, you won't see the Darnell crowd that is standing between the dirt road, the first RR yard spur, and the pergola.
RS: And remember that the Nat Geo piece you are claiming was long after the kill shot, also shows Officer Harkness #99 3 wheel motorcycle sitting alongside Inspector Sawyer's car.
As I've already pointed out, this is much later than the Darnell and Martin film segments in question here. No question after 12:45, and probably more like 1PM, when the DPD shoos the crowd away from in front of the TSBD and actually ropes off the area around the building. That is more than enough time for Harkness to put Euins in Sawyers car, drive to the north side of the TSBD, and return to the front after he was "relieved" by arriving officers.
RS: the Officer Harkness check point.
In the Darnell film, you first see Harkness looking west, then walking back towards his three-wheeler parked near the end of the cyclone fence. Not coincidentally, that's the area where Euins said that he ran into Harkness. Harkness explicitly testified that the area where he met Euins wasn't behind the depository. If that area wasn't behind the TSDB, then his earlier position to the west of his 3-wheeler was also not behind the depository. The Darnell snippet is just before Euins tells Harkness about the rifleman in the window, and Harkness will soon after radio this information to the dispatcher at 12:36
So you are claiming the Darnell film snippet showing Haygood, Harkness, and Walthers together is happening BEFORE Euins was loaded into Inspector Sawyer's car? Harkness made a 12:36 radio call that he was bringing Euins to the TSBD. And Harkness gave WC testimony that he helped load Euins into Sawyer's car. What are you claiming Harkness did with Euins, if you are claiming Euins was NOT Loaded into Sawyer's car until, "12:45, more like 1:00"?
You can Not get around the documented radio transmissions. Haygood - 12:35 from the Elm St curb. Harkness - 12:36. That alleged motorcycle cop in the Darnell Film is NOT HAYGOOD. It is physically impossible for Haygood to be in 2 places at once.
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So you are claiming the Darnell film snippet showing Haygood, Harkness, and Walthers together is happening BEFORE Euins was loaded into Inspector Sawyer's car? Harkness made a 12:36 radio call that he was bringing Euins to the TSBD. And Harkness gave WC testimony that he helped load Euins into Sawyer's car. What are you claiming Harkness did with Euins, if you are claiming Euins was NOT Loaded into Sawyer's car until, "12:45, more like 1:00"?
You can Not get around the documented radio transmissions. Haygood - 12:35 from the Elm St curb. Harkness - 12:36. That alleged motorcycle cop in the Darnell Film is NOT HAYGOOD. It is physically impossible for Haygood to be in 2 places at once.
RS: So you are claiming the Darnell film snippet showing Haygood, Harkness, and Walthers together is happening BEFORE Euins was loaded into Inspector Sawyer's car
Exactly
What are you claiming Harkness did with Euins, if you are claiming Euins was NOT Loaded into Sawyer's car until, "12:45, more like 1:00"?
I'm not claiming that. That is simply your projection. I'm saying that the Nat Geo footage you like to point to is so much later than Harkness showing up with Euins that no proper conclusion can be drawn from the Nat Geo footage.
RS: You can Not get around the documented radio transmissions. Haygood - 12:35 from the Elm St curb. Harkness - 12:36. That alleged motorcycle cop in the Darnell Film is NOT HAYGOOD. It is physically impossible for Haygood to be in 2 places at once.
Your conclusion does not follow the evidence. Nor does anything I said require Haygood be "two places at once." That's just an assumption you've made to support an unevidenced position.
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RS: So you are claiming the Darnell film snippet showing Haygood, Harkness, and Walthers together is happening BEFORE Euins was loaded into Inspector Sawyer's car
Exactly
What are you claiming Harkness did with Euins, if you are claiming Euins was NOT Loaded into Sawyer's car until, "12:45, more like 1:00"?
I'm not claiming that. That is simply your projection. I'm saying that the Nat Geo footage you like to point to is so much later than Harkness showing up with Euins that no proper conclusion can be drawn from the Nat Geo footage.
RS: You can Not get around the documented radio transmissions. Haygood - 12:35 from the Elm St curb. Harkness - 12:36. That alleged motorcycle cop in the Darnell Film is NOT HAYGOOD. It is physically impossible for Haygood to be in 2 places at once.
Your conclusion does not follow the evidence. Nor does anything I said require Haygood be "two places at once." That's just an assumption you've made to support an unevidenced position.
Your made up story is full of holes. Big Holes! Under your Made Up timelines, you are unable to explain what Harkness did with Euins between his 12:36 radio transmission and 12:45-1:00. You also can NOT get around Haygood making a 12:35 radio transmission from his motorcycle at the Elm St Curb near the Triple Underpass. This 12:35 Haygood radio transmission, means the Darnell Troika footage of Haygood, Harkness, and Walthers would have to be at 12:34. Except the Harkness 12:36 radio transmission makes that IMPOSSIBLE. Harkness testified that he loaded Euins into Sawyer's car BEFORE securing the rear of the TSBD. These are HARD FACTS. That motorcycle cop ain't Haygood. The timelines and testimonies make your fabricated story Impossible.
If you actually read the Euins WC Testimony, he pinpoints EXACTLY where he met Harkness. Like your full of holes fictional story, your location for the Harkness/Euins 1st meeting is ENTIRELY WRONG. This is what happens when you make things up. It snowballs and then quickly unravels when confronted with Hard Facts.
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There seem to be some confusion about this matter and admittedly at first I relied on some time estimates which probably weren't right. But anyway this post outlines some of the main players. Feel free to add any relevant testimony and/or photos and GIFs which can help solve Royell's latest conspiracy.
Mr. EUINS. I was here at "B."
(At this point, Representative Ford entered the hearing room.)
(Witness marking.)
Mr. EUINS. I was coming down like this here, and there was a policeman, you know there is a little cut you can come through there. There was a policeman standing right around here.
Mr. SPECTER. Where was the policeman standing? Mark that with point "C," Amos.
Mr. EUINS. Right there.
(Witness marking.)
Mr. SPECTER. You ran past the policeman standing at point C?
Mr. EUINS. No, sir. You see, I come from point B, and ran here, and told the policeman I had seen the shot, because they were looking at the railroad tracks. So he put me on the cycle and he went to here.
Mr. SPECTER. He put you on the cycle and took you where?
Mr. EUINS. Up to the front of the building.
Mr. SPECTER. The Texas School Book Depository Building?
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/euins.htm
(https://i.postimg.cc/rwGk9w0w/Euins-from-B-to-C.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Y0Pw9dn2/Euins-on-Harkness-motortrike.gif)
Mr. BELIN - Well, I notice here that there is a call with a notation at 12:36 p.m., 260 to 531. 531 is your office in the main station?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - What does it say there on that transcript?
Mr. HARKNESS - "Witness says shots came from fifth floor, Texas Book Depository store at Houston and Elm. I have him with me now and we are sealing off the building."
Mr. BELIN - All right, that was at 12:36 p.m.?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes, sir.
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/harkness.htm
Mr. HARKNESS - I had this witness with me. I didn't want to lose this witness.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Mr. HARKNESS - So I took him to the car.
Mr. BELIN - To Inspector Sawyer's car?
Mr. HARKNESS - To Inspector Sawyer's car, which was right in front.
Mr. BELIN - Which was parked in front of the Texas School Book Depository?
Mr. HARKNESS - And left the witness there and went around to the back.
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/harkness.htm
(https://i.postimg.cc/05d8GMLT/Darnell-Haygood-Harkness.gif)
Mr. BELIN. I have here a Sawyer Deposition Exhibit A, which appears to be a transcript of a police radio log, and I notice that at 12:35 p.m., there is a call from 142 to 531. 531 is your station headquarters?
Mr. HAYGOOD. Right.
Mr. BELIN. Do you want to read what you said?
Mr. HAYGOOD. "I talked to a guy at the scene who says the shots were fired from the Texas School Book Depository Building with the Hertz Rent A Car sign on top."
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/haygood.htm
Mr. BELIN. Officer Haygood, I will continue your deposition with one more question, if you would, and you are still under oath.
You mentioned in your sworn deposition that you talked to about two people that you saw, and you pointed it out in your transmission at 12:35 p.m., under your Call No. 142.
Is that correct?
Mr. HAYGOOD. Right.
Mr. BELIN. I notice on there another transmission at 12:37 p.m. Could you read what the transcript has there.
Mr. HAYGOOD. Well, this part of the deposition I covered it a while ago but I gave you, is when I called to have the Texas School Book Depository covered there. That is one of the witnesses I had that believed the shot came from that location.
Mr. BELIN. Could you read what you said there?
Mr. HAYGOOD. It says, "Get men to cover the building, Texas School Book Depository, believe the shots came from there, facing it on Elm Street looking at the building it will be the second window from the end in the upper right hand corner."
Mr. BELIN. Did you say that?
Mr. HAYGOOD. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Then the transmission made to you, 531 to 142 calling, "How many do you have there?" And you made a response which is?
Mr. HAYGOOD. "One guy possibly hit by a ricochet off the concrete and another seen the President slump."
Mr. BELIN. Were there two more people in addition to the one that you saw?
Mr. HAYGOOD. They are still the same people I was referring to back on the transmission that I made.
Mr. BELIN. How many different people did you talk to? One that was possibly hit by a ricochet?
Mr. HAYGOOD. Piece of concrete.
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/haygood.htm
Mr. TAGUE. Right. Going on Elm. So I stood there looking around. I looked up---there was a motorcycle policeman, and he stopped and had drawn his gun and was running up the embankment toward the railroad tracks. A crowd of people; several people, were starting to come down into that area where he was running, and the people pointing, and excitement up there and so on, and about that time a patrolman who evidently had been stationed under the triple underpass walked up and said, "What happened?" and I said, "I don't know; something."
And we walked up to the---by this time the motorcycle policeman returned back close to where his motorcycle was, and we walked up there and there was a man standing there. Seeing that he was very excited--I don't remember his name at the time I did have it on the tip of my tongue very excited saying he was watching the President and it seemed like his head just exploded. This was a couple or 3 minutes after this happened. And the patrolman said, "Well, I saw something fly off back on the street."
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/tague.htm
Mr. WALTHERS. And at that time I heard the shots as well as everybody else, but as we got over this fence, and a lot of officers and people were just rummaging through the train yards back in this parking area.
Mr. LIEBELER. In the parking area down there? West of the Texas School Book Depository Building between the Texas School Book Depository and the railroad tracks?
Mr. WALTHERS. Yes; and the discussion came up among several of the officers, "Were there any shots fired?" And I said, "Well, they sounded like rifle shots to me." At the time no one knew---in our crowd they were sure the shots had been fired though because of the reports---we heard the noise, and I left then and went back up here and came back onto the street.
Mr. LIEBELER. Up on Elm Street?
Mr. WALTHERS. And went over on this grassy area right in here [indicating].
Mr. LIEBELER. Between Elm Street and Main Street?
Mr. WALTHERS. Between Elm and Main and starting to looking at the grass to see if some shots had been fired and some of them might have chugged into this turf here and it would give an indication if some had really been, if they were really shots and not just blanks or something, and a man, and I couldn't tell you his name if my life depended on it---he had a car parked right here in Main Street---in the Main Street lane headed east, just under this underpass.
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/walther1.htm
(https://i.postimg.cc/5y8LnRhX/Walthers-12-39.jpg)
Mr. BELIN - And what about between the second and third?
Mr. CRAIG - Not more than 2 seconds. It was--they were real rapid.
Mr. BELIN - All right. then what did you do?
Mr. CRAIG - I continued running across Houston Street, across the parkway, across Elm Street and, by this time, the motorcade had went on down Elm Street and I ran up to the railroad yard and--uh---started to look around when the people began to all travel over that way. So, I began moving people back out of the railroad yard.
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/craig.htm
(https://i.postimg.cc/CL3LFKfL/Craig-Darnell-railway-crowd-in-Martin.gif)
JohnM
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There seem to be some confusion about this matter and admittedly at first I relied on some time estimates which probably weren't right. But anyway this post outlines some of the main players. Feel free to add any relevant testimony and/or photos and GIFs which can help solve Royell's latest conspiracy.
Mr. EUINS. I was here at "B."
(At this point, Representative Ford entered the hearing room.)
(Witness marking.)
Mr. EUINS. I was coming down like this here, and there was a policeman, you know there is a little cut you can come through there. There was a policeman standing right around here.
Mr. SPECTER. Where was the policeman standing? Mark that with point "C," Amos.
Mr. EUINS. Right there.
(Witness marking.)
Mr. SPECTER. You ran past the policeman standing at point C?
Mr. EUINS. No, sir. You see, I come from point B, and ran here, and told the policeman I had seen the shot, because they were looking at the railroad tracks. So he put me on the cycle and he went to here.
Mr. SPECTER. He put you on the cycle and took you where?
Mr. EUINS. Up to the front of the building.
Mr. SPECTER. The Texas School Book Depository Building?
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/euins.htm
(https://i.postimg.cc/rwGk9w0w/Euins-from-B-to-C.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Y0Pw9dn2/Euins-on-Harkness-motortrike.gif)
Mr. BELIN - Well, I notice here that there is a call with a notation at 12:36 p.m., 260 to 531. 531 is your office in the main station?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - What does it say there on that transcript?
Mr. HARKNESS - "Witness says shots came from fifth floor, Texas Book Depository store at Houston and Elm. I have him with me now and we are sealing off the building."
Mr. BELIN - All right, that was at 12:36 p.m.?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes, sir.
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/harkness.htm
Mr. HARKNESS - I had this witness with me. I didn't want to lose this witness.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Mr. HARKNESS - So I took him to the car.
Mr. BELIN - To Inspector Sawyer's car?
Mr. HARKNESS - To Inspector Sawyer's car, which was right in front.
Mr. BELIN - Which was parked in front of the Texas School Book Depository?
Mr. HARKNESS - And left the witness there and went around to the back.
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/harkness.htm
(https://i.postimg.cc/05d8GMLT/Darnell-Haygood-Harkness.gif)
Mr. BELIN. I have here a Sawyer Deposition Exhibit A, which appears to be a transcript of a police radio log, and I notice that at 12:35 p.m., there is a call from 142 to 531. 531 is your station headquarters?
Mr. HAYGOOD. Right.
Mr. BELIN. Do you want to read what you said?
Mr. HAYGOOD. "I talked to a guy at the scene who says the shots were fired from the Texas School Book Depository Building with the Hertz Rent A Car sign on top."
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/haygood.htm
Mr. BELIN. Officer Haygood, I will continue your deposition with one more question, if you would, and you are still under oath.
You mentioned in your sworn deposition that you talked to about two people that you saw, and you pointed it out in your transmission at 12:35 p.m., under your Call No. 142.
Is that correct?
Mr. HAYGOOD. Right.
Mr. BELIN. I notice on there another transmission at 12:37 p.m. Could you read what the transcript has there.
Mr. HAYGOOD. Well, this part of the deposition I covered it a while ago but I gave you, is when I called to have the Texas School Book Depository covered there. That is one of the witnesses I had that believed the shot came from that location.
Mr. BELIN. Could you read what you said there?
Mr. HAYGOOD. It says, "Get men to cover the building, Texas School Book Depository, believe the shots came from there, facing it on Elm Street looking at the building it will be the second window from the end in the upper right hand corner."
Mr. BELIN. Did you say that?
Mr. HAYGOOD. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Then the transmission made to you, 531 to 142 calling, "How many do you have there?" And you made a response which is?
Mr. HAYGOOD. "One guy possibly hit by a ricochet off the concrete and another seen the President slump."
Mr. BELIN. Were there two more people in addition to the one that you saw?
Mr. HAYGOOD. They are still the same people I was referring to back on the transmission that I made.
Mr. BELIN. How many different people did you talk to? One that was possibly hit by a ricochet?
Mr. HAYGOOD. Piece of concrete.
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/haygood.htm
Mr. TAGUE. Right. Going on Elm. So I stood there looking around. I looked up---there was a motorcycle policeman, and he stopped and had drawn his gun and was running up the embankment toward the railroad tracks. A crowd of people; several people, were starting to come down into that area where he was running, and the people pointing, and excitement up there and so on, and about that time a patrolman who evidently had been stationed under the triple underpass walked up and said, "What happened?" and I said, "I don't know; something."
And we walked up to the---by this time the motorcycle policeman returned back close to where his motorcycle was, and we walked up there and there was a man standing there. Seeing that he was very excited--I don't remember his name at the time I did have it on the tip of my tongue very excited saying he was watching the President and it seemed like his head just exploded. This was a couple or 3 minutes after this happened. And the patrolman said, "Well, I saw something fly off back on the street."
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/tague.htm
Mr. WALTHERS. And at that time I heard the shots as well as everybody else, but as we got over this fence, and a lot of officers and people were just rummaging through the train yards back in this parking area.
Mr. LIEBELER. In the parking area down there? West of the Texas School Book Depository Building between the Texas School Book Depository and the railroad tracks?
Mr. WALTHERS. Yes; and the discussion came up among several of the officers, "Were there any shots fired?" And I said, "Well, they sounded like rifle shots to me." At the time no one knew---in our crowd they were sure the shots had been fired though because of the reports---we heard the noise, and I left then and went back up here and came back onto the street.
Mr. LIEBELER. Up on Elm Street?
Mr. WALTHERS. And went over on this grassy area right in here [indicating].
Mr. LIEBELER. Between Elm Street and Main Street?
Mr. WALTHERS. Between Elm and Main and starting to looking at the grass to see if some shots had been fired and some of them might have chugged into this turf here and it would give an indication if some had really been, if they were really shots and not just blanks or something, and a man, and I couldn't tell you his name if my life depended on it---he had a car parked right here in Main Street---in the Main Street lane headed east, just under this underpass.
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/walther1.htm
(https://i.postimg.cc/5y8LnRhX/Walthers-12-39.jpg)
Mr. BELIN - And what about between the second and third?
Mr. CRAIG - Not more than 2 seconds. It was--they were real rapid.
Mr. BELIN - All right. then what did you do?
Mr. CRAIG - I continued running across Houston Street, across the parkway, across Elm Street and, by this time, the motorcade had went on down Elm Street and I ran up to the railroad yard and--uh---started to look around when the people began to all travel over that way. So, I began moving people back out of the railroad yard.
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/craig.htm
(https://i.postimg.cc/CL3LFKfL/Craig-Darnell-railway-crowd-in-Martin.gif)
JohnM
JOHN - Thanks for doing/posting ALL of the research that TODD & SHANKS simply refuse to do.
With respect to the Amos Euins position when he 1st encountered Officer Harkness, the Euins WC Testimony and map markings make it clear where this happened. Also, if you view the Martin Film segment showing Euins on the back of the Harkness 3 Wheeler, they are LEANING (L) as they 1st appear on the film going down the Elm St Ext. This leaning (L) would be indicative of their turning LEFTWARD onto the Elm Ext. THIS verifies the Euins testimony of where he 1st encountered Harkness.
Harkness also testified what his actions were immediately following the kill shot. I believe some of the confusion with respect to the Harkness timeline is because of those that FAIL to do the research. They are NOT Aware that Harkness did NOT Immediately roll down the Elm St Ext. Their not knowing this, then impacts the cavalier timeline that they slap on Harkness. The Harkness 12:36 radio transmission and his WC Testimony firmly establish his timeline. This New Baloney of Harkness NOT Loading Euins into Inspector Sawyer's car until roughly 1:00 shows their laziness.
Some people will just Not do the research, but they still plow ahead with their incorrect postings in order to justify their also incorrect claims. Your post above helps set the record straight. Thanks again.
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Your made up story is full of holes. Big Holes! Under your Made Up timelines, you are unable to explain what Harkness did with Euins between his 12:36 radio transmission and 12:45-1:00. You also can NOT get around Haygood making a 12:35 radio transmission from his motorcycle at the Elm St Curb near the Triple Underpass. This 12:35 Haygood radio transmission, means the Darnell Troika footage of Haygood, Harkness, and Walthers would have to be at 12:34. Except the Harkness 12:36 radio transmission makes that IMPOSSIBLE. Harkness testified that he loaded Euins into Sawyer's car BEFORE securing the rear of the TSBD. These are HARD FACTS. That motorcycle cop ain't Haygood. The timelines and testimonies make your fabricated story Impossible.
If you actually read the Euins WC Testimony, he pinpoints EXACTLY where he met Harkness. Like your full of holes fictional story, your location for the Harkness/Euins 1st meeting is ENTIRELY WRONG. This is what happens when you make things up. It snowballs and then quickly unravels when confronted with Hard Facts.
RS: Your made up story is full of holes. Big Holes! Under your Made Up timelines, you are unable to explain what Harkness did with Euins between his 12:36 radio transmission and 12:45-1:00.
Harkness said he drove Euins back to the front of the TSBD, put Euins in Sawyer's car, then drove up Houston to the rear of the TSBD. He said he "stayed at the back of the building until {he} was relieved by a squad." He then went back to the front of the building, where Sawyer was setting up as a sort of impromptu command post. This would explain why Harkness' trike is facing west in the Nat Geo footage: he would have returned south on Houston then turned right/west on Elm. Had he left the trike there after driving Euins to the front of the TSBD, the trike would have been left facing east.
RS: This 12:35 Haygood radio transmission, means the Darnell Troika footage of Haygood, Harkness, and Walthers would have to be at 12:34.
Why couldn't it be at some point in 12:33? Also, if it occurs at some point in 12:34, that allows for as much as 120 seconds (12:34:00 - 12:35:59) for Haygood to get back to his ride, get the info from the unnamed witness, and radio it it. Given the distance involved, about 250 feet, that's definitely possible.
Except the Harkness 12:36 radio transmission makes that IMPOSSIBLE.
Another baseless assertion from you.
Harkness testified that he loaded Euins into Sawyer's car BEFORE securing the rear of the TSBD.
He also said that the area to the west of the TSBD was not the back of the TSBD.
If you actually read the Euins WC Testimony, he pinpoints EXACTLY where he met Harkness.
Yes. He placed it just to the west of the TSBD annex and parking shed. That is, near the end of the fence separating the TSBD property from the RR yard. And not too far from where Harkness' three wheeler can be seen in the Darnell film. And we see Harkness walking in that direction when we last see him in the Darnell film.
Like your full of holes fictional story, your location for the Harkness/Euins 1st meeting is ENTIRELY WRONG
The Euins/Harkness meeting, per Euins, is about 25 feet from the end of the fence. That's pretty close. As in, two objects 25 feet apart can both fit inside a standard two-car garage.
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RS: Your made up story is full of holes. Big Holes! Under your Made Up timelines, you are unable to explain what Harkness did with Euins between his 12:36 radio transmission and 12:45-1:00.
Harkness said he drove Euins back to the front of the TSBD, put Euins in Sawyer's car, then drove up Houston to the rear of the TSBD. He said he "stayed at the back of the building until {he} was relieved by a squad." He then went back to the front of the building, where Sawyer was setting up as a sort of impromptu command post. This would explain why Harkness' trike is facing west in the Nat Geo footage: he would have returned south on Houston then turned right/west on Elm. Had he left the trike there after driving Euins to the front of the TSBD, the trike would have been left facing east.
RS: This 12:35 Haygood radio transmission, means the Darnell Troika footage of Haygood, Harkness, and Walthers would have to be at 12:34.
Why couldn't it be at some point in 12:33? Also, if it occurs at some point in 12:34, that allows for as much as 120 seconds (12:34:00 - 12:35:59) for Haygood to get back to his ride, get the info from the unnamed witness, and radio it it. Given the distance involved, about 250 feet, that's definitely possible.
Except the Harkness 12:36 radio transmission makes that IMPOSSIBLE.
Another baseless assertion from you.
Harkness testified that he loaded Euins into Sawyer's car BEFORE securing the rear of the TSBD.
He also said that the area to the west of the TSBD was not the back of the TSBD.
If you actually read the Euins WC Testimony, he pinpoints EXACTLY where he met Harkness.
Yes. He placed it just to the west of the TSBD annex and parking shed. That is, near the end of the fence separating the TSBD property from the RR yard. And not too far from where Harkness' three wheeler can be seen in the Darnell film. And we see Harkness walking in that direction when we last see him in the Darnell film.
Like your full of holes fictional story, your location for the Harkness/Euins 1st meeting is ENTIRELY WRONG
The Euins/Harkness meeting, per Euins, is about 25 feet from the end of the fence. That's pretty close. As in, two objects 25 feet apart can both fit inside a standard two-car garage.
How about you just do the research? Your wanting to put the loading of Euins into Sawyer's car at 1:00 tells the tale. You have tied yourself into a Knot. You have absolutely NO IDEA what Harkness did immediately after the kill shot. Otherwise, you would not be trying to NOW put Harkness in that Troika filming at 12:33. Everything you are NOW claiming is a consistent retrofit to try and make your previous claims work. Just do the research. I am currently WAY ahead of you.
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How about you just do the research? Your wanting to put the loading of Euins into Sawyer's car at 1:00 tells the tale. You have tied yourself into a Knot. You have absolutely NO IDEA what Harkness did immediately after the kill shot. Otherwise, you would not be trying to NOW put Harkness in that Troika filming at 12:33. Everything you are NOW claiming is a consistent retrofit to try and make your previous claims work. Just do the research. I am currently WAY ahead of you.
RS: Your wanting to put the loading of Euins into Sawyer's car at 1:00 tells the tale.
I've never said that. In fact, the last time you brought this up I told you that.
You have absolutely NO IDEA what Harkness did immediately after the kill shot.
Harkness was stationed at the corner of Houston and Main, and he was in immediate command of the officers in Dealey Plaza. After the assassination, he and officer King jumped on their trikes and rode all the way to Industrial. Seeing nothing, Harkness returned to Dealey Plaza and wound up in the RR yards. He parked his ride on the dirt road at the eastern RR spur, walked west over to the second spur, then turned around and walked back to his bike, as seen in the Darnell film. at some point shortly after that, he encountered Amos Euins. He took Euins story, wrote it down in a notebook he carried with him, then put Euins on his cycle and the two drove down the Elm St Extension. That ride ended in front of the main entrance of the TSBD. Harkness dismounted, informed Sawyer of what he'd seen and of Euins story. Euins then was settled into the back seat of Sawyer's car. After that, Harkness drove up Houston to the north side of the Depository to seal off the building, at the same time calling the dispatcher for more units to be sent to the scene. He stayed at the north side of the depository until relieved by one of the newly-arriving squads. Then he returned to the front of the TSBD, parking his cycle (facing west) next to Sawyer's car on Elm, as seen in the Nat Geo footage.
Otherwise, you would not be trying to NOW put Harkness in that Troika filming at 12:33.
I asked you, "Why couldn't {the Darnell clip with Harkness} be at some point in 12:33?" A simple question. Your complete lack of functional response to this question, and your attempt to talk around it, speaks volumes about your inability to support your 12:34 assertion.
Everything you are NOW claiming is a consistent retrofit to try and make your previous claims work. Just do the research.
What I'm saying now is basically what I've said from the beginning. If you paid attention and were able to put two and two together you'd have been able to figure that out.
I am currently WAY ahead of you.
The only person you are ahead of is yourself. That's only because you keep getting in your own way and stumbling over yourself.
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RS: The Elm Ext is absolutely jammed with people.
Again, In the Darnell film you can see a white car parked on the north side of the Elm Street Extension. That wouldn't happen if the street were "jammed with people" Also, you can see people standing on the sidewalk running along the front of the TSBD. That also wouldn't be possible if the street was full of a crowd. Speaking of which:
RS: You can even see people stretching across it in front of the Huge Gates.
These are the aforementioned people standing on the sidewalk between the TSDB and the north side of Elm. They aren't in the street, ipso facto.
When Martin is filming Harkness driving by with Euins, he's to the east of the area in Darnell where the crowd appears. Because he's filming in an eastward direction, you won't see the Darnell crowd that is standing between the dirt road, the first RR yard spur, and the pergola.
RS: And remember that the Nat Geo piece you are claiming was long after the kill shot, also shows Officer Harkness #99 3 wheel motorcycle sitting alongside Inspector Sawyer's car.
As I've already pointed out, this is much later than the Darnell and Martin film segments in question here. No question after 12:45, and probably more like 1PM, when the DPD shoos the crowd away from in front of the TSBD and actually ropes off the area around the building. That is more than enough time for Harkness to put Euins in Sawyers car, drive to the north side of the TSBD, and return to the front after he was "relieved" by arriving officers.
RS: the Officer Harkness check point.
In the Darnell film, you first see Harkness looking west, then walking back towards his three-wheeler parked near the end of the cyclone fence. Not coincidentally, that's the area where Euins said that he ran into Harkness. Harkness explicitly testified that the area where he met Euins wasn't behind the depository. If that area wasn't behind the TSDB, then his earlier position to the west of his 3-wheeler was also not behind the depository. The Darnell snippet is just before Euins tells Harkness about the rifleman in the window, and Harkness will soon after radio this information to the dispatcher at 12:36
Right there 1:00. Who do you think that cop is talking to inside Sawyer's car on the Nat Geo snippet? He not talking to Morgan Freeman, "Driving Miss Daisy".
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Right there 1:00. Who do you think that cop is talking to inside Sawyer's car on the Nat Geo snippet? He not talking to Morgan Freeman, "Driving Miss Daisy".
A snip of film showing Euins in the car at 1:00 only means that Euins entered the the car at some point before that snippet was taken. That's all it will tell you. Euins presence in the car in that shot does not tell you how long Euins had been in the car prior. He could have sat down into the warm vinyl seat one minute before or five minutes before or ten minutes before or twenty minutes before. This isn't hard to understand.
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A snip of film showing Euins in the car at 1:00 only means that Euins entered the the car at some point before that snippet was taken. That's all it will tell you. Euins presence in the car in that shot does not tell you how long Euins had been in the car prior. He could have sat down into the warm vinyl seat one minute before or five minutes before or ten minutes before or twenty minutes before. This isn't hard to understand.
As usual, you leave out that which You Missed right out of the gate. Officer Harkness's #99 3 Wheel Motorcycle is sitting right there next to Inspector Sawyer's car. I had to inform you as to the Harkness 3 Wheeler being in that Nat Geo snippet. And you're now stuck trying to Mickey Mouse the Harkness Timeline. His documented 12:36 radio transmission and his WC Testimony as to the order he did what he did, gives him a very firm timeline. It is physically impossible for Officer Harkness and Officer Haygood to be filmed together prior to Officer Haygood making his own documented 12:35 radio transmission. "That Ain't Haygood"!
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RS: I am talking about the dirt road portion of the Elm St Extension.
So why did you bring up the limo turn and traffic signal in the Wegman film?
there are NO BOLLARDS between Officer Harkness and this alleged motorcycle cop.
Yes there are! Not only can you see many of them in the Darnell film, others are made obvious when the motorcycle cop walks behind them.
Here, bollards are outlined in red. Note that one is in Harkness' shadow:
(https://i.postimg.cc/Fs658FVF/Haygood-RR-Yard-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Tpn4W6sB)
Here, "B" marks where the line of bollards is. You can see that two of them are silhouetted by the MC as he walks behind them:
(https://i.postimg.cc/sDLdqf4g/Haygood-RR-Yard-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jLyFJb1p)
Here he is a half step later:
(https://i.postimg.cc/c4zy21B4/Haygood-RR-Yard-3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tYFMVjcL)
BUMP
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As usual, you leave out that which You Missed right out of the gate. Officer Harkness's #99 3 Wheel Motorcycle is sitting right there next to Inspector Sawyer's car. I had to inform you as to the Harkness 3 Wheeler being in that Nat Geo snippet. And you're now stuck trying to Mickey Mouse the Harkness Timeline. His documented 12:36 radio transmission and his WC Testimony as to the order he did what he did, gives him a very firm timeline. It is physically impossible for Officer Harkness and Officer Haygood to be filmed together prior to Officer Haygood making his own documented 12:35 radio transmission. "That Ain't Haygood"!
RS: As usual, you leave out that which You Missed right out of the gate. Officer Harkness's #99 3 Wheel Motorcycle is sitting right there next to Inspector Sawyer's car.
I already addressed that, but I guess it hasn't sunk in with you yet. Here's a refresher. Note that Harkness' cycle is facing to the west in the Nat Geo clip. However, when Harkness is carrying Euins to the front of the TSBD, they're headed east. If the Nat Geo clip was taken before Harkness went to the seal off the north side of the TSBD, then it would have been facing east. But it's facing the opposite direction. However, if the clip was taken after Harkness returned to the front of the TSBD after he was relieved on the north side, we'd expect it to be facing west (i.e. Harkness drove the trike southwards down Houston, then a right on to Elm and the space next to Sawyer's car.)
And you're now stuck trying to Mickey Mouse the Harkness Timeline. His documented 12:36 radio transmission and his WC Testimony as to the order he did what he did, gives him a very firm timeline
My timeline for Harnkess doesn't contradict the 12:36 transmission in any way. You just aren't thinking.
It is physically impossible for Officer Harkness and Officer Haygood to be filmed together prior to Officer Haygood making his own documented 12:35 radio transmission.
You can't argue for your own points, nor against mine. All you can do is mindlessly repeat the same unsupported assertions.
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RS: As usual, you leave out that which You Missed right out of the gate. Officer Harkness's #99 3 Wheel Motorcycle is sitting right there next to Inspector Sawyer's car.
I already addressed that, but I guess it hasn't sunk in with you yet. Here's a refresher. Note that Harkness' cycle is facing to the west in the Nat Geo clip. However, when Harkness is carrying Euins to the front of the TSBD, they're headed east. If the Nat Geo clip was taken before Harkness went to the seal off the north side of the TSBD, then it would have been facing east. But it's facing the opposite direction. However, if the clip was taken after Harkness returned to the front of the TSBD after he was relieved on the north side, we'd expect it to be facing west (i.e. Harkness drove the trike southwards down Houston, then a right on to Elm and the space next to Sawyer's car.)
And you're now stuck trying to Mickey Mouse the Harkness Timeline. His documented 12:36 radio transmission and his WC Testimony as to the order he did what he did, gives him a very firm timeline
My timeline for Harnkess doesn't contradict the 12:36 transmission in any way. You just aren't thinking.
It is physically impossible for Officer Harkness and Officer Haygood to be filmed together prior to Officer Haygood making his own documented 12:35 radio transmission.
You can't argue for your own points, nor against mine. All you can do is mindlessly repeat the same unsupported assertions.
The above is hilarious. YOU have no evidence as to what Harkness did with his 3 Wheel Motorcycle. Zippo. The 12:36 Harkness radio transmission and his WC Testimony telling us he then helped load Euins into Inspector Sawyer's car are FACTS. The stuff your peddling is pure speculation thrown out there AFTER my proving it is physically impossible for Haygood and Harkness to be filmed together at 12:34. That Troika image is 12:38. This puts Officer Haygood back at his motorcycle and gives Walthers time to get to the Elm St manhole cover for his 12:39 photo. These are FACTS. That DPD Motorcycle Cop is a fraud.
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The above is hilarious. YOU have no evidence as to what Harkness did with his 3 Wheel Motorcycle. Zippo. The 12:36 Harkness radio transmission and his WC Testimony telling us he then helped load Euins into Inspector Sawyer's car are FACTS. The stuff your peddling is pure speculation thrown out there AFTER my proving it is physically impossible for Haygood and Harkness to be filmed together at 12:34. That Troika image is 12:38. This puts Officer Haygood back at his motorcycle and gives Walthers time to get to the Elm St manhole cover for his 12:39 photo. These are FACTS. That DPD Motorcycle Cop is a fraud.
YOU have no evidence as to what Harkness did with his 3 Wheel Motorcycle
I have his testimony as to where he went and the sequence in which he did. He also testified that the area west of the TSBD was not the back of building. He testified that, while at the back of the building he encountered someone from the Secret service. Forrest Sorrels testified that he returned to Dealey Plaza as quickly as possible, approaching the building on Houston, and entering the building from the back entrance....which dovetails nicely with Harkness' recollections. Harkness testified that when the relief squad showed up to replace Harkness at the back of the building, he returned to the front. Even the simplest map will show that the easiest route from the truck dock at the rear of the to the front entrance of the building is to drive south on Houston along the East side of the building. This would necessitate a right turn on Elm which would leave Harkness ride facing to the west, as we see it in the Nat Geo footage. We also see in the Martin film that Harkness is driving Euins eastward, which would mean that Harkness would have stopped his cycle facing east, not west. All of these things are "evidence," and I already mentioned it all before. You just ignore it all.
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YOU have no evidence as to what Harkness did with his 3 Wheel Motorcycle
I have his testimony as to where he went and the sequence in which he did. He also testified that the area west of the TSBD was not the back of building. He testified that, while at the back of the building he encountered someone from the Secret service. Forrest Sorrels testified that he returned to Dealey Plaza as quickly as possible, approaching the building on Houston, and entering the building from the back entrance....which dovetails nicely with Harkness' recollections. Harkness testified that when the relief squad showed up to replace Harkness at the back of the building, he returned to the front. Even the simplest map will show that the easiest route from the truck dock at the rear of the to the front entrance of the building is to drive south on Houston along the East side of the building. This would necessitate a right turn on Elm which would leave Harkness ride facing to the west, as we see it in the Nat Geo footage. We also see in the Martin film that Harkness is driving Euins eastward, which would mean that Harkness would have stopped his cycle facing east, not west. All of these things are "evidence," and I already mentioned it all before. You just ignore it all.
The above has absolutely Nothing in quotations and/or sources being cited. The above provides not 1 iota of Proof/Evidence. None. What we see above is the babbling "recollections" of the author. And it is being done in a panic response to my having Proven that it is physically impossible for Haygood and Harkness to be filmed together at 12:34 PM by Darnell.
In response to my having proven that Officer Haygood and Officer Harkness could not be filmed together, we now have: (1) The above ramblings of a man in sheer panic mode, and, (2) a very respected JFK Assassination researcher suddenly claiming that Officer Haygood actually made 2 separate trips deep inside the railroad yard with the 2nd trip being filmed by Darnell.
An MLB pitcher is judged by the reaction of the hitter. I ask that the erratic responses to my evidence based Conspiracy Discovery also be judged in this same manner.
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RS: I am talking about the dirt road portion of the Elm St Extension.
So why did you bring up the limo turn and traffic signal in the Wegman film?
there are NO BOLLARDS between Officer Harkness and this alleged motorcycle cop.
Yes there are! Not only can you see many of them in the Darnell film, others are made obvious when the motorcycle cop walks behind them.
Here, bollards are outlined in red. Note that one is in Harkness' shadow:
(https://i.postimg.cc/Fs658FVF/Haygood-RR-Yard-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Tpn4W6sB)
Here, "B" marks where the line of bollards is. You can see that two of them are silhouetted by the MC as he walks behind them:
(https://i.postimg.cc/sDLdqf4g/Haygood-RR-Yard-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jLyFJb1p)
Here he is a half step later:
(https://i.postimg.cc/c4zy21B4/Haygood-RR-Yard-3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tYFMVjcL)
BUMP
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BUMP
You didn't need to bump it. It was boring enough the first time.
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You didn't need to bump it. It was boring enough the first time.
This is why this murder remains unsolved after 62+ yrs. People such as yourself do Not seriously look into anything new. What it comes down to is like the general public, YOU are lazy. The revisions of history we are seeing in response to my Conspiracy Discovery(s) should tell you something. Alas, you are only sleepwalking through life. Merely marking time. Your Life, Your Call. Still, such a waste.
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The above has absolutely Nothing in quotations and/or sources being cited. The above provides not 1 iota of Proof/Evidence. None. What we see above is the babbling "recollections" of the author. And it is being done in a panic response to my having Proven that it is physically impossible for Haygood and Harkness to be filmed together at 12:34 PM by Darnell.
In response to my having proven that Officer Haygood and Officer Harkness could not be filmed together, we now have: (1) The above ramblings of a man in sheer panic mode, and, (2) a very respected JFK Assassination researcher suddenly claiming that Officer Haygood actually made 2 separate trips deep inside the railroad yard with the 2nd trip being filmed by Darnell.
An MLB pitcher is judged by the reaction of the hitter. I ask that the erratic responses to my evidence based Conspiracy Discovery also be judged in this same manner.
The above has absolutely Nothing in quotations and/or sources being cited.
If you've "done the research" as thoroughly as you claim to, then you'd easily be able to engage with what I'd written without me needed to quote each and every thing. Your continuing inability to do so is far too revealing.
The above provides not 1 iota of Proof/Evidence. None.
It provides more evidence than you've ever offered. But you should know that having "done the research," right?
In response to my having proven that Officer Haygood and Officer Harkness could not be filmed together, we now have: (1) The above ramblings of a man in sheer panic mode,
I'm not panicking. I should say, I'm not the one panicking here.
An MLB pitcher is judged by the reaction of the hitter. I ask that the erratic responses to my evidence based Conspiracy Discovery also be judged in this same manner.
An MLB pitcher is judged by his stats, especially his ERA. And Coach won't even let you into the dugout, much less onto the field.
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The above has absolutely Nothing in quotations and/or sources being cited.
If you've "done the research" as thoroughly as you claim to, then you'd easily be able to engage with what I'd written without me needed to quote each and every thing. Your continuing inability to do so is far too revealing.
The above provides not 1 iota of Proof/Evidence. None.
It provides more evidence than you've ever offered. But you should know that having "done the research," right?
In response to my having proven that Officer Haygood and Officer Harkness could not be filmed together, we now have: (1) The above ramblings of a man in sheer panic mode,
I'm not panicking. I should say, I'm not the one panicking here.
An MLB pitcher is judged by the reaction of the hitter. I ask that the erratic responses to my evidence based Conspiracy Discovery also be judged in this same manner.
An MLB pitcher is judged by his stats, especially his ERA. And Coach won't even let you into the dugout, much less onto the field.
I ask this Forum to look at the above. NO Quotes + NO Sources = Total BS:
The above is in stark contrast to my proving "That Ain't Haygood" with: (1) Documented Timelines + (2) Sworn Testimonies.
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I ask this Forum to look at the above. NO Quotes + NO Sources = Total BS:
The above is in stark contrast to my proving "That Ain't Haygood" with: (1) Documented Timelines + (2) Sworn Testimonies.
Again, if you were as knowledgeable about Harkness' movements as you claim to be, it should be easy for you to address specifically each point I made.
It appears that you can't do it. Which reflects on the quality and quantity of your "research"
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RS: I am talking about the dirt road portion of the Elm St Extension.
So why did you bring up the limo turn and traffic signal in the Wegman film?
there are NO BOLLARDS between Officer Harkness and this alleged motorcycle cop.
Yes there are! Not only can you see many of them in the Darnell film, others are made obvious when the motorcycle cop walks behind them.
Here, bollards are outlined in red. Note that one is in Harkness' shadow:
(https://i.postimg.cc/Fs658FVF/Haygood-RR-Yard-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Tpn4W6sB)
Here, "B" marks where the line of bollards is. You can see that two of them are silhouetted by the MC as he walks behind them:
(https://i.postimg.cc/sDLdqf4g/Haygood-RR-Yard-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jLyFJb1p)
Here he is a half step later:
(https://i.postimg.cc/c4zy21B4/Haygood-RR-Yard-3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tYFMVjcL)
If that guy masquerading as a DPD Motorcycle Cop is holding a motorcycle glove, I'll "eat a bug". (As Cal Worthington used to say).
I have been waiting for NBC to let the Sixth Floor release the last half of their high def copy of the Darnell Film. It's been over a year now. I believe when we see that high def Darnell Film copy, it will expose this impostor walking along the string of passenger train cars and then slipping past Officer Harkness. Whatever we see this Joker holding above, he is Not holding it when he walks along the passenger train cars. Now what would he suddenly need as he walks toward the TSBD? Think about it.