JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate => Topic started by: Tom Graves on August 01, 2025, 03:17:31 AM
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Did closeted gay businessman Clay Shaw mastermind a homosexual "thrill kill assassination of JFK which involved Lee Harvey Oswald, David Ferrie and Guy Banister?
That's what over-ambitious, scandal-plagued and revengeful New Orleans DA Jim Garrison thought before he read an anti-CIA / anti-Shaw article published in "Paese Sera," a Communist-owned Italian newspaper (which article was republished in a French Communist newspaper, L'Humanité, translated into English and given to him by Bertrand Russell's Far-Left secretary, Ralph Schoenman -- Joan Mellen's ex-husband -- in 1967).
We know that in his 1989 book, On the Trail of the Assassins, Garrison lied when he wrote that he hadn't been aware of the article until after the Shaw Trial was over because about three weeks after Garrison had arrested Shaw, Life Magazine's Richard Billings -- who was helping Garrison -- wrote in his journal that Garrison had a copy of the L'Humanité article:
"Story about Shaw and CIA appears in Humanite [L'Humanité], probably March 8 . . . Giant has copy datelined Rome, March 7, from La Presse Italien . . . It explains Shaw working in Rome in '58 to '60 period . . ." (22 March 1967)
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Absolutely! Makes perfect sense. I believe it all, and Jim DiEugenio agrees (well, I'm pretty sure he does, since Garrison is his hero). "Homosexual thrill killings" are a well-known category of major crime. Ask any FBI profiler; they have to attend 40 hours of classroom training just on homosexual thrill killings, although today the course is called LGBTQ+ thrill killings. Here is a fairly scholarly yet amusing discussion, "A Homosexual Thrill-Kill?", https://feralhouse.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/thrill-kill-by-gorightly.pdf. The author, Adam Gorightly, is apparently quite well-known in certain circles and describes himself as "a true Rennaissance man of the lunatic fringe," https://adamgorightly.com/index.html (if only DiEugenio and his ilk were as honest!). I like his final paragraph that addresses the possibility the JFKA "was orchestrated by Freemasons along the 33rd degree latitude to correspond with the ancient 'Killing of the King' fertility rite," which is kind of where my own research has been pointing.
In a more serious - WAY more serious - vein, here is a scholarly but very readable dissertation from 2020 that exposes (no pun intended) Garrison's nonsense and his own sexual proclivities. It's entitled "New Orleans never was tighter”: Jim Garrison’s Gendered Vice Campaign in New Orleans, 1962-1966, https://scholarworks.uno.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3945&context=td. Wasn't Garrison also believed to have been a cross-dresser, or am I confusing him with John Travolta?
You have failed to mention Bruce Solie or the KGB in this post, Tom. Let's get back on track, shall we? In fact, I tend to think the entire Garrison investigation was orchestrated by Solie to ferret out a mole (can you ferret out a mole? can you mole out a ferret?) in the ... well, somewhere, perhaps the Mardi Gras Planning Committee, which Tennent Bagley believed was simply crawling with moles and ferrets and whatnot.
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Absolutely! Makes perfect sense. I believe it all, and Jim DiEugenio agrees (well, I'm pretty sure he does, since Garrison is his hero). "Homosexual thrill killings" are a well-known category of major crime. Ask any FBI profiler; they have to attend 40 hours of classroom training just on homosexual thrill killings, although today the course is called LGBTQ+ thrill killings.
Up here, the course is called "2SLGBTQQIA+ thrill killings".
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Absolutely! Makes perfect sense. I believe it all, and Jim DiEugenio agrees (well, I'm pretty sure he does, since Garrison is his hero). "Homosexual thrill killings" are a well-known category of major crime. Ask any FBI profiler; they have to attend 40 hours of classroom training just on homosexual thrill killings, although today the course is called LGBTQ+ thrill killings. Here is a fairly scholarly yet amusing discussion, "A Homosexual Thrill-Kill?", https://feralhouse.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/thrill-kill-by-gorightly.pdf. The author, Adam Gorightly, is apparently quite well-known in certain circles and describes himself as "a true Rennaissance man of the lunatic fringe," https://adamgorightly.com/index.html (if only DiEugenio and his ilk were as honest!). I like his final paragraph that addresses the possibility the JFKA "was orchestrated by Freemasons along the 33rd degree latitude to correspond with the ancient 'Killing of the King' fertility rite," which is kind of where my own research has been pointing.
In a more serious - WAY more serious - vein, here is a scholarly but very readable dissertation from 2020 that exposes (no pun intended) Garrison's nonsense and his own sexual proclivities. It's entitled "New Orleans never was tighter”: Jim Garrison’s Gendered Vice Campaign in New Orleans, 1962-1966, https://scholarworks.uno.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3945&context=td. Wasn't Garrison also believed to have been a cross-dresser, or am I confusing him with John Travolta?
You have failed to mention Bruce Solie or the KGB in this post, Tom. Let's get back on track, shall we? In fact, I tend to think the entire Garrison investigation was orchestrated by Solie to ferret out a mole (can you ferret out a mole? can you mole out a ferret?) in the ... well, somewhere, perhaps the Mardi Gras Planning Committee, which Tennent Bagley believed was simply crawling with moles and ferrets and whatnot.
Dear Fancy Pants,
James Phelan was an investigative reporter for "The Saturday Evening Post" who'd written a favorable article about Jim Garrison. (You've heard of "The Saturday Evening Post," right?).
After Garrison had arrested Clay Shaw on 1 March 1967, he decided to get away from the chaos he'd created in The Big Easy and take a short vacation in Vegas. Phelan wanted to interview him about his case against Shaw, so they rendezvoused there on March 5th and 6th.
On pages 150 and 151 of his 1982 book, Scandals, Scamps, and Scoundrels, Phelan wrote:
"In an effort to get Garrison's story into focus, I asked him the motive of the Kennedy conspirators. He told me that the murder at Dallas had been a homosexual plot.
'They had the same motive as Loeb and Leopold, when they murdered Bobbie Franks in Chicago back in the twenties,' Garrison said. 'It was a homosexual thrill-killing, plus the excitement of getting away with a perfect crime. John Kennedy was everything that Dave Ferrie was not — a successful, handsome, popular, wealthy, virile man. You can just picture the charge Ferrie got out of plotting his death.'
I asked how he had learned that the murder was a homosexual plot.
'Look at the people involved,' Garrison said. 'Dave Ferrie, homosexual. Clay Shaw, homosexual. Jack Ruby, homosexual.'
'Ruby was a homosexual?'
'Sure, we dug that out,' Garrison said. 'His homosexual nickname was Pinkie. That's three. Then there was Lee Harvey Oswald.'
But Oswald was married and had two children, I pointed out.
'A switch-hitter who couldn't satisfy his wife,' Garrison said. 'That's all in the Warren Report.' He named two more 'key figures' whom he labeled homosexual.
'That's six homosexuals in the plot,' Garrison said. 'One or maybe two, okay. But all six homosexual? How far can you stretch the arm of coincidence?'
I told him that was an intriguing theory, but it wasn't evidence he could present to a court."
. . . . . . .
Since you brought up Bruce Leonard Solie, Fancy Pants, why don't you google him?
(I said "google," not ogle.")
And since you brought up Tennent H. Bagley (a "Lone Nutter" like you and I), why don't you read his 2007 Yale University Press book, Spy Wars: Moles, Mysteries, and Deadly Games, and his 2014 follow-up article "Ghosts of the Spy Wars," and learn something about your beloved KGB?
Both are free-to-read -- just google (not ogle) "spy wars" and "archive" simultaneously, and "ghosts of the spy wars" and "archive" simultaneously.
-- Tom
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Dear Fancy Pants,
James Phelan was an investigative reporter for "The Saturday Evening Post" who'd written a favorable article about Jim Garrison. (You've heard of "The Saturday Evening Post," right?).
After Garrison had arrested Clay Shaw on 1 March 1967, he decided to get away from the chaos he'd created in The Big Easy and take a short vacation in Vegas. Phelan wanted to interview him about his case against Shaw, so they rendezvoused there on March 5th and 6th.
On pages 150 and 151 of his 1982 book, Scandals, Scamps, and Scoundrels, Phelan wrote:
"In an effort to get Garrison's story into focus, I asked him the motive of the Kennedy conspirators. He told me that the murder at Dallas had been a homosexual plot.
'They had the same motive as Loeb and Leopold, when they murdered Bobbie Franks in Chicago back in the twenties,' Garrison said. 'It was a homosexual thrill-killing, plus the excitement of getting away with a perfect crime. John Kennedy was everything that Dave Ferrie was not — a successful, handsome, popular, wealthy, virile man. You can just picture the charge Ferrie got out of plotting his death.'
I asked how he had learned that the murder was a homosexual plot.
'Look at the people involved,' Garrison said. 'Dave Ferrie, homosexual. Clay Shaw, homosexual. Jack Ruby, homosexual.'
'Ruby was a homosexual?'
'Sure, we dug that out,' Garrison said. 'His homosexual nickname was Pinkie. That's three. Then there was Lee Harvey Oswald.'
But Oswald was married and had two children, I pointed out.
'A switch-hitter who couldn't satisfy his wife,' Garrison said. 'That's all in the Warren Report.' He named two more 'key figures' whom he labeled homosexual.
'That's six homosexuals in the plot,' Garrison said. 'One or maybe two, okay. But all six homosexual? How far can you stretch the arm of coincidence?'
I told him that was an intriguing theory, but it wasn't evidence he could present to a court."
. . . . . . .
Since you brought up Bruce Leonard Solie, why don't you google him, Fancy Pants?
(I said "google," not ogle.")
And since you brought up Tennent H. Bagley (a "Lone Nutter" like you and I), why don't you read his 2007 Yale University Press book, Spy Wars: Moles, Mysteries, and Deadly Games, and his 2014 follow-up article "Ghosts of the Spy Wars" and learn something about your beloved KGB?
Both are free-to-read -- just google (not ogle) "spy wars" and "archive" simultaneously, and "ghosts of the spy wars" and "archive" simultaneously.
-- Tom
Not sure what you think the passage from Phelan adds to the equation, but it's quoted in full in the Gorightly piece I linked. The Rennaissance man of the lunatic fringe doesn't miss much.
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Not sure what you think the passage from Phelan adds to the equation, but it's quoted in full in the Golightly piece I linked. The Rennaissance man of the lunatic fringe doesn't miss much.
Dear FP,
Do you think Phelan lied in his book about what Garrison told him, or maybe even made up altogether his story about rendezvousing with him in Vegas four days after he'd arrested Shaw?
It's interesting to note that they met in Sin City about the time the anti-CIA / anti-Shaw article was published in "Paese Sera," and about three weeks before Garrison received a translated-by-Schoenman knock-off copy of it.
In other words, Giant told Phelan his sorely mistaken homosexual thrill-kill theory about Shaw, et al., before he'd been set straight (pardon the pun) by the Kremlin via "Paese Sera" or "L' Humanite" or some-such Commie rag, and even, I've read, before he sent a copy of it to his local New Orleans States-Item newspaper for it to publish.
Factoid for Fancy Pants: Garrison (played by Kevin Cosner) confronts Shaw (played by Tommy Lee Jones -- who ironically plays the role of Pete Bagley in the BBC film, "Yuri Nosenko: KGB") with a put-together-by-Stone Italian-language hybrid fake copy of the anti-CIA / anti-Clay Shaw article in his movie (sic) "JFK."
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Not sure what you think the passage from Phelan adds to the equation, but it's quoted in full in the Gorightly piece I linked. The Rennaissance man of the lunatic fringe doesn't miss much.
What "equation"?
Fancy Pants Lance's "The nice-nice KGB is preferable to the evil-evil CIA" equation?
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Dear FP,
Do you think Phelan lied in his book about what Garrison told him, or maybe even made up altogether his story about rendezvousing with him in Vegas four days after he'd arrested Shaw?
No, I simply think Garrison was insane.
It's interesting to note that they met in Sin City about the time the anti-CIA / anti-Shaw article was published in "Paese Sera," and about three weeks before Garrison received a translated-by-Schoenman knock-off copy of it.
In other words, Giant told Phelan his sorely mistaken homosexual thrill-kill theory about Shaw, et al., before he'd been set straight (pardon the pun) by the Kremlin via "Paese Sera" or "L' Humanite" or some-such Commie rag, and even, I've read, before he sent a copy of it to his local New Orleans States-Item newspaper for it to publish.
Factoid for Fancy Pants: Garrison (played by Kevin Cosner) confronts Shaw (played by Tommy Lee Jones -- who ironically plays the role of Pete Bagley in the BBC film, "Yuri Nosenko: KGB") with a put-together-by-Stone Italian-language hybrid fake copy of the anti-CIA / anti-Clay Shaw article in his movie (sic) "JFK."
I have no idea what this thread is supposed to be about, why you think it was worth starting, or what on earth you're talking about.
I do, however, put Clay Shaw and Ruth Paine on the Mt. Rushmore of people who have suffered at the hands of CT lunatics.
EDIT: Hmmmm, after posting the above, I, as a Serious and Dedicated Researcher, reviewed over 15 pages of Google results for "homosexual thrill killing." I found zero references to this heinous crime other than in connection with the Garrison investigation. It would appear the FBI is wasting its time with the LGBTQ+ thrill killing training, although I can see why Hoover might've found it titillating.
I also discovered, however, that some fairly serious folks DO question Phelan's account. I must say, the account sounds pretty nutty even for Garrison. Perhaps Phelan was a Solie-planted mole or ferret? What did Nosenko say about all this? Is Newman on the case?
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No, I simply think Garrison was insane.
And overly ambitious, scandal-plagued, and revengeful, to boot. Regarding the latter, I've read that Shaw once publicly embarrassed him in a restaurant by forcing him to stop verbally abusing his wife.
I have no idea what this thread is supposed to be about [...] or what on earth you're talking about.
I doubt that you're that obtuse, FP, but I'll spell it out for you:
If Communist-owned "Paese Sera" hadn't published the bogus anti-CIA / anti-Shaw article so soon after Garrison had arrested the closeted-gay New Orleans businessman, and if Garrison hadn't read a translated version of it (courtesy of Joan Mellen's ex-husband in London) so soon after he'd arrested Shaw, he probably would have "stayed on course" and tried to prove in court (with help from attention-seeking Perry Russo, whom we now know confused photographic images of cleanshaven 5' 9.5" Oswald for Ferrie's bearded 6' 1" gay roommate, James "Lew" / "Leon" Lewallen) that Shaw had masterminded a homosexual thrill-kill assassination of JFK.
But it did.
And Garrison read it within three weeks.
And it convinced him to pursue the "the CIA killed JFK" angle, instead.
Get it?
I have no idea why you think it was worth starting.
This thread was worth starting because we're seeing similar "active measures" today, e.g., the KGB's "losing" to Dutch Intelligence hackers in 2016 some fake "Russian Intel" memos which impugned Hillary, Obama and Biden by incorporating fake emails. At least one of which memos James Comey and Special Counsel John Durham realized was fake, but the former, fearing that it would be leaked by pro-Trump FBI agents before the election and unduly damage the reputation of Clinton or the FBI or AG Lynch or some-such thing, used as an excuse for prematurely (in retrospect) terminating the Bureau's investigation of Hillary's emails, and the latter went ahead and sneakily incorporated some others from the same batch into his nothing-burger Investigation of the Investigators.
And because "useful idiot" (or worse) Tulsi Gabbard, et al., are now trying to spin those fake Russian memos in such a way to make it look as though high-level Deep State Dems sabotaged Trump's campaign, and Tulsi, et al., are hoping that the spun issue of "Russiagate" will distract his MAGAT base from the Epstein/Maxwell/ Trump Case by having it refocus on Russiagate! Russiagate! Russiagate!, and do so while "former" KGB officer Vladimir Putin is jumping for joy -- because "useful idiots" (or worse) "Republicans" are doing his dirty work for him, just as Jim Garrison (and, twenty years later, Comrade Oliver Stone) did the Kremlin's dirty work so well that this "JFKA Forum" exists some sixty-two years after the fact, and you and I are even having this conversation.
That's why.
That, and because it's a "hoot."
I do, however, put Clay Shaw and Ruth Paine on the Mt. Rushmore of people who have suffered at the hands of CT lunatics.
Okay.
EDIT: Hmmmm. After posting the above, I, as a Serious and Dedicated Researcher, reviewed over 15 pages of Google results for "homosexual thrill killing." I found zero references to this heinous crime other than in connection with the Garrison investigation. It would appear the FBI is wasting its time with the LGBTQ+ thrill killing training, although I can see why Hoover might've found it titillating.
"Crazy," overly ambitious, scandal-plagued and revengeful Garrison couldn't possibly have seriously entertained the theory, then, could he, FP?
I also discovered, however, that some fairly serious folks DO question Phelan's account.
Who, pray tell?
Jim "The CIA Did It!" DiEugenio?
Gary "Rudeness" Aguilar?
Jefferson "Yuri Nosenko Was a True Defector!" Morley?
I must say, the account sounds pretty nutty, even for Garrison.
Yes, pretty nutty, indeed, but not too nutty for overly ambitious, scandal-plagued and revengeful Jim Garrison, I'm afraid.
Perhaps Phelan was a Solie-planted mole or ferret? What did Nosenko say about all this? Is Newman on the case?
Funny . . . I was just going to ask you what your favorite humanitarian, Vladimir Putin, told you about it?
Equally funny is the fact that you didn't mention true defector KGB Major Anatoliy Golitsyn. Is it because it was he who tried to warn the CIA and the FBI as early as 1962 that they could expect (after a 35-year hiatus since the GPU's* highly successful "Operation Trust") to be on the receiving end of Sun Tzu-like "active measures" operations by your beloved KGB, and the fact that the aforementioned "Paese Sera" article so nicely fit the bill, albeit some five years later?
Hmmmmm, indeed.
*GPU = Gosudarstvennoye politicheskoye upravleniye
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I, as a Serious and Dedicated Researcher, reviewed over 15 pages of Google results for "homosexual thrill killing."
Dear Fancy Pants,
Did it give you a seriously dedicated thrill?
-- Tom