JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate => Topic started by: Tom Graves on July 16, 2025, 04:12:22 AM
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If a tinfoil-hat JFKA conspiracy theorist could come to accept the "Single Bullet Theory," would he or she remain a tinfoil-hat JFKA conspiracy theorist?
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If a tinfoil-hat JFKA conspiracy theorist could come to accept the "Single Bullet Theory," would he or she remain a tinfoil-hat JFKA conspiracy theorist?
Bob Harris accepted that JFK and Connally were struck by a single bullet. But he had the shot being fired from the 3rd floor of the Daltex building.
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If a tinfoil-hat JFKA conspiracy theorist could come to accept the "Single Bullet Theory," would he or she remain a tinfoil-hat JFKA conspiracy theorist?
Those who accept the SBT are the ones who are wearing tinfoil hats. You need some kind of mind-altering hat to cause you to accept such a patently absurd and thoroughly refuted theory as the SBT.
The only forensic engineering and digital reconstruction firm that has analyzed the SBT trajectories, the prestigious Knott Laboratory, has proved the theory is impossible by proving that JFK and Connally were not aligned in a way that would make the proposed double hit feasible. The Knott SBT trajectory analysis dwarfs all previous analyses in sophistication and data volume. For those who have not heard about the Knott Lab SBT trajectory analysis, here's a link about it:
https://knottlab.com/blog/knott-lab-uses-forensic-science-to-refute-warren-commission-findings-on-jfk-assassination/
The man who supposedly received the final five SBT wounds, Gov. John Connally, categorically rejected the idea that he was hit before Z229 and chose Z234 as the moment of impact. Connally's surgeons, after reviewing Connally's actions frame by frame, concluded he was hit between Z234 and Z237.
The nurse who helped to treat Connally, Nurse Audrey Bell, said the bullet fragments recovered from Connally's wrist alone were far more than is missing from the alleged SBT bullet, CE 399. She handled the fragments after they were removed from the governor's wrist. She specified that the fragments were not merely "flakes of metal" but were identifiable pieces of metal 3 to 4 millimeters in length by 2 millimeters wide. This squares with the recollection of one of Connally's other surgeons, Dr. Robert Shaw, who also saw the fragments. Interviewed for the award-winning 1988 documentary Reasonable Doubt: The Single-Bullet Theory, Shaw said, "I am sure that the bullet that inflicted these wounds on Governor Connally was fragmented much more than this bullet [CE 399] shows."
No genuine wound ballistics test has duplicated CE 399's mythical performance, and there is no case documented in forensic literature where a bullet emerged with virtually all of its substance and with its lands and grooves intact after penetrating seven layers of human skin, penetrating 10 layers of fabric, and smashing two bones (one of them the hard distal radius bone).
The hard physical evidence of the JFK clothing holes alone refutes the SBT and proves the back wound was well below the throat wound. The photos of the front of JFK's shirt prove that the alleged exit hole in the shirt was actually two slits that were obviously below the level of the tie knot and were cut by a scalpel, which explains why there is no fabric missing from them.
The released photos of JFK's tie refute the SBT. They prove there was no hole through the tie knot but only a slight nick on the left edge, a nick almost certainly caused by one of the doctors or nurses who were hurriedly cutting away JFK's clothing. One of the nurses confirmed this to researcher Henry Hurt.
The first FBI lab reports on JFK's clothing noted that no metallic traces were found around the slits. Metallic traces were found around the holes in the back of JFK's coat and shirt, but not around the slits beneath the collar. The lab reports said that the holes in JFK's coat and shirt were submitted to both X-ray and spectrographic analysis, that metallic traces (copper) were found around the edges of the rear holes, and that no metallic traces were found in the fabric around the slits below the collar. That's because no bullet exited those slits.
We now know from ARRB-released autopsy files that on the night of the autopsy, the autopsy doctors were positively, absolutely, completely, totally certain that the back wound had no exit point, that they established this by extensive and repeated probing and even removed the chest organs to facilitate and fully observe the probing. Medical technicians could see the end of the probe pushing up against the stomach lining well below the throat wound. We know that the first draft of the autopsy report said the throat wound was caused by a fragment from a bullet that hit the head.
We also now know, again thanks to ARRB-released files, that on the night of the autopsy, when Kennedy’s body was prepared for burial, the mortician noticed three tiny holes in JFK's right cheek. The holes had to be filled because embalming fluid was leaking from them. The most likely explanation for the holes is that they were made by tiny fragments of glass that were blown toward Kennedy when a bullet went through the front windshield. If they were not made by glass fragments, they must have been made by small bullet fragments that sprayed toward JFK's face when the bullet penetrated the windshield. Lone-gunman theorists have simply ignored this explosive revelation in the ARRB materials because their scenario has no way to explain those wounds.
The Zapruder film, as the HSCA's photographic evidence panel acknowledged to their credit, proves that JFK was hit at or just before Z190. The evidence of this hit is self-evident and undeniable, unless one is pathologically committed to believing in the SBT.
Scientific review of the NAA evidence has debunked the claim that NAA supports the SBT. It does not.
SBT peddlers have no rational explanation for JFK's dramatic shot reaction in Z226-232, when his upper body is suddenly jolted forward and his hands and elbows are flung upward and forward--and this is after he has already been clearly reacting to the Z186-190 shot. It is nothing short of astonishing that SBTers refuse to acknowledge these plainly visible facts.
And on and on and on we could go.
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Those who accept the SBT are the ones who are wearing tinfoil hats. You need some kind of mind-altering hat to cause you to accept such a patently absurd and thoroughly refuted theory as the SBT.
The only forensic engineering and digital reconstruction firm that has analyzed the SBT trajectories, the prestigious Knott Laboratory, has proved the theory is impossible by proving that JFK and Connally were not aligned in a way that would make the proposed double hit feasible. The Knott SBT trajectory analysis dwarfs all previous analyses in sophistication and data volume. For those who have not heard about the Knott Lab SBT trajectory analysis, here's a link about it:
https://knottlab.com/blog/knott-lab-uses-forensic-science-to-refute-warren-commission-findings-on-jfk-assassination/
The man who supposedly received the final five SBT wounds, Gov. John Connally, categorically rejected the idea that he was hit before Z229 and chose Z234 as the moment of impact. Connally's surgeons, after reviewing Connally's actions frame by frame, concluded he was hit between Z234 and Z237.
The nurse who helped to treat Connally, Nurse Audrey Bell, said the bullet fragments recovered from Connally's wrist alone were far more than is missing from the alleged SBT bullet, CE 399. She handled the fragments after they were removed the governor's wrist. She specified that the fragments were not merely "flakes of metal" but were identifiable pieces of metal 3 to 4 millimeters in length by 2 millimeters wide. This squares with the recollection of one of Connally's other surgeons, Dr. Robert Shaw, who also saw the fragments. Interviewed for the award-winning 1988 documentary Reasonable Doubt: The Single-Bullet Theory, Shaw said, "I am sure that the bullet that inflicted these wounds on Governor Connally was fragmented much more than this bullet [CE 399] shows."
No genuine wound ballistics test has duplicated CE 399's mythical performance, and there is no case documented in forensic literature where a bullet emerged with virtually all of its substance and with its lands and grooves intact after penetrating seven layers of human skin, penetrating 10 layers of fabric, and smashing two bones (one of them the hard distal radius bone).
The hard physical evidence of the JFK clothing holes alone refutes the SBT and proves the back wound was well below the throat wound. The photos of the front of JFK's shirt prove that the alleged exit hole in the shirt was actually two slits that were obviously below the level of the tie knot and were cut by a scalpel, which explains why there is no fabric missing from them.
The released photos of JFK's tie refute the SBT. They prove there was no hole through the tie knot but only a slight nick on the left edge, a nick almost certainly caused by one of the doctors or nurses who were hurriedly cutting away JFK's clothing. One of the nurses confirmed this to research Henry Hurt.
The first FBI lab reports on JFK's clothing noted that no metallic traces were found around the slits. Metallic traces were found around the holes in the back of JFK's coat and shirt, but not around the slits beneath the collar. The lab reports said that the holes in JFK's coat and shirt were submitted to both X-ray and spectrographic analysis, that metallic traces (copper) were found around the edges of the rear holes, and that no metallic traces were found in the fabric around the slits below the collar. That's because no bullet exited those slits.
We now know from ARRB-released autopsy files that on the night of the autopsy, the autopsy doctors were positively, absolutely, completely, totally certain that the back wound had no exit point, that they established this by extensive and repeated probing and even removed the chest organs to facilitate and fully observe the probing. Medical technicians could see the end of the probe pushing up against the stomach lining well below the throat wound. We know that the first draft of the autopsy report said the throat wound was caused by a fragment from a bullet that hit the head.
We also now know, again thanks to ARRB-released files, that on the night of the autopsy, when Kennedy’s body was prepared for burial, the mortician noticed three tiny holes in JFK's right cheek. The holes had to be filled because embalming fluid was leaking from them. The most likely explanation for the holes is that they were made by tiny fragments of glass that were blown toward Kennedy when a bullet went through the front windshield. If they were not made by glass fragments, they must have been made by small bullet fragments that sprayed toward JFK's face when the bullet penetrated the windshield. Lone-gunman theorists have simply ignored this explosive revelation in the ARRB materials because their scenario has no way to explain those wounds.
The Zapruder film, as the HSCA's photographic evidence panel acknowledged to their credit, proves that JFK was hit at or just before Z190. The evidence of this hit is self-evident and undeniable, unless one is pathologically committed to believing in the SBT.
Scientific review of the NAA evidence has debunked the claim that NAA supports the SBT. It does not.
SBT peddlers have no rational explanation for JFK's dramatic shot reaction in Z226-232, when his upper body is suddenly jolted forward and his hands and elbows are flung upward and forward--and this is after he has already been clearly reacting to the Z186-190 shot. It is nothing short of astonishing that SBTers refuse to acknowledge these plainly visible facts.
And on and on and on we could go.
So you accept the work of Cyril Wecht, I presume? And in my opinion, anyone who supports the SLOPPY nonsense by Knotts is completely bonkers.
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The SBT actually functions like an IQ test...
7 wounds - breaking a rib, shattering a radius bone, leaving fragments in Connolly till his death... exiting near pristine... taking a somewhat circuitous path to do this?
It's all a contrived hoax to do exactly what Hoover wanted it to do... pin the dirty deed on one person, Oswald...
Who believes this sort of thing?
Yeah, it's an IQ test...
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The SBT actually functions like an IQ test...
Seven wounds - breaking a rib, shattering a radius bone, leaving fragments in Connolly till his death... exiting near pristine... taking a somewhat circuitous path to do this?
It's all a contrived hoax to do exactly what Hoover wanted it to do... pin the dirty deed on one person, Oswald...
Who believes this sort of thing?
"Near pristine" my you-know-what.
Regardless, that kind of bullet will penetrate 3 feet of pine board without being deformed.
Question: How many hard bones did CE-399 hit?
Answer: One, the radial bone in JBC's wrist.
Question: How did it hit it?
Answer: Twirling, near the rear-end, and at a velocity of about 1200 fps. That's why the nose is undamaged and why only the rear 1/3 of the bullet is flattened.
Do you think CE-399 was planted by the bad guys?
If so, why and how did they create such a strangely deformed bullet, Einstein?
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Griffith,
IIRC, you're on record saying 20 - 30 bad guys were involved, altogether, in the planning, the "patsy-ing," the shooting, the getting-away, and the all-important (and ongoing!!!) cover up.
How many of those bad guys do you figure were involved in the creating, the planting, and the entering into evidence of CE-399?
And how did they create it, anyway?
You know, with the flattened rear 1/3 of the bullet, the extrusion of lead core out its base, and with no damage to its nose?
Did they fire it through a block of ballistics gel or . . . gasp . . . a human neck to get it to start tumbling before it hit something hard?
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And in my opinion, anyone who supports the SLOPPY nonsense by Knotts is completely bonkers.
This comical statement is typical of the reaction of cultists when confronted with scientific evidence that destroys their fantasy.
Do you know anything about Knott Laboratory? It is a prestigious, respected forensic engineering and digital reconstruction firm that has worked on several high-profile cases. Pray tell, what exactly was "sloppy" about the 2023 Knott SBT trajectory analysis? The Knott analysis dwarfs all previous analyses in its sophistication and data volume. No other SBT analysis has used a digital replica of Dealey Plaza produced from a high-definition laser scan of Dealey Plaza that contained a point cloud of up to 2 million points per second, which enabled the analysis to accurately measure point-to-point anywhere in the scene.
With this digital replica of Dealey Plaza, Knott's forensic engineers were able to match images from the scene and the Zapruder film using photogrammetry. They modeled the presidential limousine using multiple photographs and established the correct dimensions of the vehicle. Through a process called match moving, they synced frames from the Zapruder film into the digital recreation of the scene. The match moving enabled the alignment of the digital models of Kennedy and Connally in the vehicle to establish their positions frame by frame throughout the incident.
Nothing like this had ever been done before. I should add that Knott's forensic engineers, to give every benefit of the doubt to the SBT, assumed the bullet came from the TSBD's sixth-floor window:
“With the ability to measure distances, locations and angles from the point cloud, we could
develop the exact trajectory between Oswald’s shooting position and points on each body,”
said Stanley Stoll, CEO & Principal Engineer of Knott Laboratory. “Our team tested bullet trajectories
using the two frames from the Zapruder film where the first shots occurred and the known entry
and exit points on Kennedy and Connally.”
Stoll continued, “The shooting position, bullet exit point on President Kennedy, and entry point on
Governor Connally should all be reasonably in line. When drawing this line from the sixth floor perch of
the Texas Book Depository to the positions of the two men and their entry/exit points, we found a significant
angle difference. This case is ongoing, but evidence strongly suggests there is more to the story in this
historic event. Modern science refutes the Warren Commission’s findings on the assassination of
President John F. Kennedy.”
(https://knottlab.com/blog/knott-lab-uses-forensic-science-to-refute-warren-commission-findings-on-jfk-assassination/)
I wonder if you guys are ever going to come to grips with the following facts, much less the Knott SBT trajectory analysis:
-- No metal traces were found around the front shirt slits, where the SBT bullet supposedly exited. Metallic traces were found around the holes in the back of JFK's coat and shirt, but none were found around the front shirt slits.
-- The released photos of the front shirt slits, which the WC suppressed, show for all to see that the slits were below the collar, hence below the tie knot.
-- The released photos of the tie prove there was no hole through the tie, only a small nick on the left edge of the tie. No wonder the WC did not release any photos of the back of the tie. They knew there was no hole through it.
-- The ARRB-released medical files include the disclosure that at the autopsy the morticians noticed three small wounds in JFK's right cheek. One of the morticians filled the holes because embalming fluid was leaking from them. We now know that a bullet penetrated the front windshield from the front, certainly blowing glass and metal particles toward JFK and causing those three small puncture wounds in his right cheek. The lone-gunman scenario has no way to explain those wounds.
-- The ARRB-released medical files also prove that on the night of the autopsy, the autopsy doctors were absolutely, positively, totally certain that the back wound had no exit point. They established this with prolonged probing, both with fingers and with medical probes, and even removed the chest organs and manipulated the body "every which way" to facilitate and observe the probing. Medical technicians could see the end of the probe pushing up against the lining of the chest cavity. We now know that the first draft of the autopsy report said nothing about the throat wound being an exit wound for the back wound.
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The nurse who helped to treat Connally, Nurse Audrey Bell, said the bullet fragments recovered from Connally's wrist alone were far more than is missing from the alleged SBT bullet, CE 399. She handled the fragments after they were removed from the governor's wrist. She specified that the fragments were not merely "flakes of metal" but were identifiable pieces of metal 3 to 4 millimeters in length by 2 millimeters wide. This squares with the recollection of one of Connally's other surgeons, Dr. Robert Shaw, who also saw the fragments. Interviewed for the award-winning 1988 documentary Reasonable Doubt: The Single-Bullet Theory, Shaw said, "I am sure that the bullet that inflicted these wounds on Governor Connally was fragmented much more than this bullet [CE 399] shows."
Griffith,
Dr. Charles Francis Gregory was the orthopedic surgeon who operated on Governor Connally's wrist.
Perhaps you've heard of him?
The following is an excerpt from his Warren Commission testimony:
Mr. Specter: Did you observe any foreign objects identifiable as bits of fragments or portions of a bullet missile, Dr. Gregory?
Dr. Gregory: A preliminary X-ray had indicated that there were metallic fragments or at least metallic fragments which cast metallic shadows in the soft tissues around the wounded forearm. Two or three of these were identified and were recovered and were observed to be metallic in consistency. These were turned over to appropriate authorities for further disposition.
Mr. Specter: Approximately how large were those fragments, Dr. Gregory?
Dr. Gregory: I would judge that they were first -- flat, rather thin, and that their greatest dimension would probably not exceed 1/8 of an inch. They were very small.
[...]
Mr. Specter: For the purpose of this consideration, I am interested to know whether the metal which you found in the wrist was of sufficient size so that the bullet which passed through the wrist could not have emerged virtually completely intact, or with 158 grains intact, or whether the portions of the metallic fragments were so small that that would be consistent with having virtually the entire 6.5mm bullet emerge.
Dr. Gregory: Well, considering the small volume of metal as seen by X-ray, and the very small dimensions of the metal which was recovered, I think several such fragments could have been flaked off of a total missile mass without reducing its volume greatly. Now, just how much depends of course upon what the original missile weighed. In other words, on the basis of the metal left behind in Governor Connally's body, as far as I could tell the missile that struck it could be virtually intact, insofar as mass was concerned, but probably was distorted.
Mr. Specter: Would you have any idea at all as to what the fragments which you observed in the Governor's wrist might weigh, Doctor?
Dr. Gregory: No, not really, but it would have to have been very small -- very small.
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The SBT actually functions like an IQ test...
7 wounds - breaking a rib, shattering a radius bone, leaving fragments in Connolly till his death... exiting near pristine... taking a somewhat circuitous path to do this?
It's all a contrived hoax to do exactly what Hoover wanted it to do... pin the dirty deed on one person, Oswald...
Who believes this sort of thing?
Yeah, it's an IQ test...
IQ test results:
🧠 IQ 85 and Below — "Commission Cultist"
Believes the Single Bullet Theory (SBT) and thinks the bullet might have acted alone.
Has framed posters of Arlen Specter and J. Edgar Hoover above the bed — right next to the Tooth Fairy shrine.
Calls anyone who questions the Warren Report a “Putin puppet” or “conspiracy nut.”
Considers schoolyard name-calling a valid debate strategy.
Believes magic is a valid branch of physics — especially when it serves the narrative.
🧠 IQ 86–110 — "Doubting Dave"
Scratches head at the SBT, wondering how a bullet can bend without a wand.
Suspects the Warren Commission was more about PR than truth.
Knows Arlen Specter was Hoover’s obedient water boy.
Doesn’t believe in magic — or coincidence on that scale.
Still watches History Channel reruns but with increasing side-eye.
🧠 IQ 111–139 — "The Informed Skeptic"
Thoroughly rejects the SBT — and probably Specter’s haircut.
Sees the Warren Report as damage control, not disclosure.
Believes Hoover loathed Kennedy, and Specter helped bury the truth.
Doesn’t believe in fairy tales — or government objectivity.
Open to new evidence and keeps a mental file titled: Things That Don’t Add Up Since ’63.
🧠 IQ 140 and Above — "Knows Where the Bodies Are Buried"
Understands the SBT was a political tool to wrap it up with one scapegoat.
Recognizes the real motive: protect the guilty, not inform the public.
Has a filing cabinet of declassified documents, a laser pointer, and a healthy skepticism.
Refers to the Warren Commission as The Original Misinformation Machine.
Has come to love the truth and fight for justice.
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Dear Jake "Eagle Eye" Maxwell,
What's the matter with you?
-- Tom
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It's interesting to note that the one person, perhaps closest to the event, did not believe in the SBT... Here's a summary from Google:
John Connally did not believe the magic bullet theory, also known as the single-bullet theory, was accurate. He and his wife, Nellie, consistently stated that he was struck by a separate bullet after President Kennedy was hit. Furthermore, the [some] physicians who treated Connally's wounds also did not believe they were caused by the same bullet that injured Kennedy, according to The New York Times.
The single-bullet theory, a key component of the Warren Commission's findings, proposed that one bullet caused multiple non-fatal wounds to both President Kennedy and Governor Connally. The Commission acknowledged a difference of opinion on this theory among its members, according to Wikipedia....
Connally's rejection of the theory is significant because it undermines the Warren Commission's conclusion that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. The timing of the shots, as determined by the Zapruder film, is crucial to the theory. If Connally was hit by a separate bullet, it would have been impossible for Oswald to have fired all the shots from his rifle within the time frame estimated by the commission.
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Dear Jake,
I hope you don't mind my changing your nickname from "Eagle Eye" to "Mister Magoo."
-- Tom
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Those who accept the SBT are the ones who are wearing tinfoil hats. You need some kind of mind-altering hat to cause you to accept such a patently absurd and thoroughly refuted theory as the SBT.
The only forensic engineering and digital reconstruction firm that has analyzed the SBT trajectories, the prestigious Knott Laboratory, has proved the theory is impossible by proving that JFK and Connally were not aligned in a way that would make the proposed double hit feasible. The Knott SBT trajectory analysis dwarfs all previous analyses in sophistication and data volume. For those who have not heard about the Knott Lab SBT trajectory analysis, here's a link about it:
https://knottlab.com/blog/knott-lab-uses-forensic-science-to-refute-warren-commission-findings-on-jfk-assassination/
The man who supposedly received the final five SBT wounds, Gov. John Connally, categorically rejected the idea that he was hit before Z229 and chose Z234 as the moment of impact. Connally's surgeons, after reviewing Connally's actions frame by frame, concluded he was hit between Z234 and Z237.
The nurse who helped to treat Connally, Nurse Audrey Bell, said the bullet fragments recovered from Connally's wrist alone were far more than is missing from the alleged SBT bullet, CE 399. She handled the fragments after they were removed from the governor's wrist. She specified that the fragments were not merely "flakes of metal" but were identifiable pieces of metal 3 to 4 millimeters in length by 2 millimeters wide. This squares with the recollection of one of Connally's other surgeons, Dr. Robert Shaw, who also saw the fragments. Interviewed for the award-winning 1988 documentary Reasonable Doubt: The Single-Bullet Theory, Shaw said, "I am sure that the bullet that inflicted these wounds on Governor Connally was fragmented much more than this bullet [CE 399] shows."
No genuine wound ballistics test has duplicated CE 399's mythical performance, and there is no case documented in forensic literature where a bullet emerged with virtually all of its substance and with its lands and grooves intact after penetrating seven layers of human skin, penetrating 10 layers of fabric, and smashing two bones (one of them the hard distal radius bone).
The hard physical evidence of the JFK clothing holes alone refutes the SBT and proves the back wound was well below the throat wound. The photos of the front of JFK's shirt prove that the alleged exit hole in the shirt was actually two slits that were obviously below the level of the tie knot and were cut by a scalpel, which explains why there is no fabric missing from them.
The released photos of JFK's tie refute the SBT. They prove there was no hole through the tie knot but only a slight nick on the left edge, a nick almost certainly caused by one of the doctors or nurses who were hurriedly cutting away JFK's clothing. One of the nurses confirmed this to researcher Henry Hurt.
The first FBI lab reports on JFK's clothing noted that no metallic traces were found around the slits. Metallic traces were found around the holes in the back of JFK's coat and shirt, but not around the slits beneath the collar. The lab reports said that the holes in JFK's coat and shirt were submitted to both X-ray and spectrographic analysis, that metallic traces (copper) were found around the edges of the rear holes, and that no metallic traces were found in the fabric around the slits below the collar. That's because no bullet exited those slits.
We now know from ARRB-released autopsy files that on the night of the autopsy, the autopsy doctors were positively, absolutely, completely, totally certain that the back wound had no exit point, that they established this by extensive and repeated probing and even removed the chest organs to facilitate and fully observe the probing. Medical technicians could see the end of the probe pushing up against the stomach lining well below the throat wound. We know that the first draft of the autopsy report said the throat wound was caused by a fragment from a bullet that hit the head.
We also now know, again thanks to ARRB-released files, that on the night of the autopsy, when Kennedy’s body was prepared for burial, the mortician noticed three tiny holes in JFK's right cheek. The holes had to be filled because embalming fluid was leaking from them. The most likely explanation for the holes is that they were made by tiny fragments of glass that were blown toward Kennedy when a bullet went through the front windshield. If they were not made by glass fragments, they must have been made by small bullet fragments that sprayed toward JFK's face when the bullet penetrated the windshield. Lone-gunman theorists have simply ignored this explosive revelation in the ARRB materials because their scenario has no way to explain those wounds.
The Zapruder film, as the HSCA's photographic evidence panel acknowledged to their credit, proves that JFK was hit at or just before Z190. The evidence of this hit is self-evident and undeniable, unless one is pathologically committed to believing in the SBT.
Scientific review of the NAA evidence has debunked the claim that NAA supports the SBT. It does not.
SBT peddlers have no rational explanation for JFK's dramatic shot reaction in Z226-232, when his upper body is suddenly jolted forward and his hands and elbows are flung upward and forward--and this is after he has already been clearly reacting to the Z186-190 shot. It is nothing short of astonishing that SBTers refuse to acknowledge these plainly visible facts.
And on and on and on we could go.
MG: The only forensic engineering and digital reconstruction firm that has analyzed the SBT trajectories, the prestigious Knott Laboratory ...The Knott SBT trajectory analysis dwarfs all previous analyses in sophistication and data volume
Not true. Failure Analysis Associates was (and still is, under the name Exponent) performed a trajectory study in 1994 for the ABA mock trial. It was scientifically superior to the amateurish, half-finished mess that KL did. At the very least, FaAA understood that they needed to account for uncertainties in the exact position of the bodies and the locations of the wounds. The only way that the KL study surpassed the others is in the sheer volume of data. But that's because of the tool they used to get topographic data; the great majority of the data generated is useless to this particular task.
MG: The man who supposedly received the final five SBT wounds, Gov. John Connally, categorically rejected the idea that he was hit before Z229 and chose Z234 as the moment of impact. Connally's surgeons, after reviewing Connally's actions frame by frame, concluded he was hit between Z234 and Z237.
Basically, you're arguing that Connally thought that he was hit about a half second or less after the lapel flip. It's foolish to demand that his memory was split-second accurate, especially after he lost so much blood and being subject to the fairly intense anesthesia that a thorachotomy would require. Shaw and Gregory had no training or expertise in how to identify when someone was shot merely by watching frames from a silent film, thus there's no reason to rely on their judgements on the matter.
MG: The nurse who helped to treat Connally, Nurse Audrey Bell, said the bullet fragments recovered from Connally's wrist alone were far more than is missing from the alleged SBT bullet, CE 399. [...] This squares with the recollection of one of Connally's other surgeons, Dr. Robert Shaw, who also saw the fragments.
These accounts were made decades after the fact, and as such cannot supercede what Gregory's much fresher 1963/'64 memory. Further, the wrist x-rays show that the total fragments of the wrist are smaller than Bell's later recollections.
MG: No genuine wound ballistics test has duplicated CE 399's mythical performance, and there is no case documented in forensic literature where a bullet emerged with virtually all of its substance and with its lands and grooves intact after penetrating seven layers of human skin, penetrating 10 layers of fabric, and smashing two bones (one of them the hard distal radius bone).
Exactly how many cases in forensic literature are there "where a bullet emerged with virtually all of its substance and with its lands and grooves intact after penetrating seven layers of human skin, penetrating 10 layers of fabric, and smashing two bones (one of them the hard distal radius bone)"??? I figure the number is exactly one.
MG: The hard physical evidence of the JFK clothing holes alone refutes the SBT and proves the back wound was well below the throat wound. The photos of the front of JFK's shirt prove that the alleged exit hole in the shirt was actually two slits that were obviously below the level of the tie knot and were cut by a scalpel, which explains why there is no fabric missing from them.
About 30 years ago, I used to bother any medical personnel I could corner about a number of of issues regarding the JFK case. One of the things I got out of it is that Hospital staff do not use scalpels to cut away clothing. Instead, they used bandage scissors and trauma shears, tools designed specifically to cut through cloth held next to the body without causing any injuries in the process. They were quite adamant about this. That being said, if you look carefully at the "slits" in a good photo, you'll see that they are tears, not cuts. If you look at the autopsy photos, especially the left lateral view, it is cleraly below where the top of the collar would sit.
Wether or not the wound was an entrance or an exit, there must be a corresponding defect in the shirt. If it was an entry, it would be a hole, since the fabric would be sheared off at the margins on the bullet hole, just like the defects on the back fo the shirt and coat. Only an exit would leave slitlike tears, where the fabric fails in tension.
MG: The first FBI lab reports on JFK's clothing noted that no metallic traces were found around the slits. Metallic traces were found around the holes in the back of JFK's coat and shirt, but not around the slits beneath the collar. The lab reports said that the holes in JFK's coat and shirt were submitted to both X-ray and spectrographic analysis, that metallic traces (copper) were found around the edges of the rear holes, and that no metallic traces were found in the fabric around the slits below the collar. That's because no bullet exited those slits.
Why would you insist that bullet would necessarily have to leave traces of metal? In an exit wound, bullet pushes the skin and tissue in front of it, and pulls forward the tissues adjacent to eith side through friction. In a shored exit wound, the skin and tissue at the exit site are pushed forward into the fabric, which is trong enough to prevent the skin from tearing. The skin and underlying tissues do not begin to fail structually and tear until the overlying fabric tears enough to allow it.
But the skin immediately adjacent to the bullet is still moving forward with the projectile. The upshot of this is that the skin around the exit site is likely to momentarily be pulled through the tear in the overlying fabric as the bullet exits. After the bullet is completely out, the skin snaps back. The end result is that the bullet may not ever make direct contact with the fabric at the exit site.
MG: We now know from ARRB-released autopsy files that on the night of the autopsy, the autopsy doctors were positively, absolutely, completely, totally certain that the back wound had no exit point, that they established this by extensive and repeated probing and even removed the chest organs to facilitate and fully observe the probing. Medical technicians could see the end of the probe pushing up against the stomach lining well below the throat wound. We know that the first draft of the autopsy report said the throat wound was caused by a fragment from a bullet that hit the head.
In their ARRB testimony, the autopsists said that they did suspect that the bullet may have exited the throat wound.
This is Humes:
"My problem is, very simply stated, we had an entrance wound high in the posterior back above the scapula. We didn't know where the exit wound was at that point. I'd be the first one to admit it. We knew in general in the past that we should have been more prescient than we were, I must confess, because when we removed the breast plate and examined the thoracic cavity, we saw a contusion on the upper lobe of the lung. There was no defect in the pleura anyplace. So it's obvious that the missile had gone over that top of the lung. Of course, the more I thought about it, the more I realized it had to go out from the neck.
"It was the only place it could go, after it was not found anywhere in the X-rays. So early the next morning, I called Parkland Hospital and talked with Malcolm Perry, I guess it was. And he said, Oh, yeah, there was a wound right in the middle of the neck by the tie, and we used that for the tracheotomy. Well, they obliterated, literally obliterated--when we went back to the photographs, we thought we might have seen some indication of the edge of that wound in the gaping skin where the--but it wouldn't make a great deal of sense to go slashing open the neck. What would we learn?"
This is Boswell:
"Q. When you referred to the wound in the anterior neck, what was your first impression as to what that wound was?
"A. I'm not sure what our first impression-- oh, we thought that they had done a tracheostomy, and whether or not that was a bullet wound, we weren't sure, initially. It was after we found an entrance wound and then the blood external to the pleura that we had a track, and that proved to be the exit wound; but it was so distorted by the incision, initially we just assumed it to be a tracheostomy.
"Q. Did you reach the conclusion that there had been a transit wound through the neck during the course of the autopsy itself?
"A. Oh, yes."
Finck's memory of the night are a bit different, but notice that his answer contradicts the idea that they thought the bullet could not have transited.
"We examined the wounds and there were questions answered following the autopsy. It was clear that there was a wound of entry in the upper back, but it is, thanks to Dr. Humes, that next morning he found out there was a wound in the front of the neck. At the time of the autopsy, we did not see the exit in the front of the neck. For the
head it was clear, but for the neck it was not. So this was clarified the next day.
"So to answer your question, at the time the autopsy was completed, there was still no answer. It shows once more that you have to wait for certain things to be put together."
If they thought the bullet had not transited, then why did Humes ask Perry about the tracheostomy the next morning?
MG: We also now know, again thanks to ARRB-released files, that on the night of the autopsy, when Kennedy’s body was prepared for burial, the mortician noticed three tiny holes in JFK's right cheek. The holes had to be filled because embalming fluid was leaking from them.
That is Tom Robinson's ARRB version. He earlier told the HSCA that there was a large wound at the back of the head, a small irregular wound in the hairline of the right temple, and nothing else. The autopsy photos show no small wounds to the face, nor are any such injuries mentioned in the Sibert and O'Neil report. No other witnesses described such injuries to JFK's face.
MG: The Zapruder film, as the HSCA's photographic evidence panel acknowledged to their credit, proves that JFK was hit at or just before Z190. The evidence of this hit is self-evident and undeniable, unless one is pathologically committed to believing in the SBT.
So, as proof of your contention that Kennedy was hit just before Z190, you offer only tautology, well-poisoning, and an argument by authority where the authorities aren't
actually authorities on the subject at hand? :D >:( ??? :P
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MG: The only forensic engineering and digital reconstruction firm that has analyzed the SBT trajectories, the prestigious Knott Laboratory ...The Knott SBT trajectory analysis dwarfs all previous analyses in sophistication and data volume
Not true. Failure Analysis Associates was (and still is, under the name Exponent) performed a trajectory study in 1994 for the ABA mock trial. It was scientifically superior to the amateurish, half-finished mess that KL did.
This is laughable nonsense. If Knott Lab's study had confirmed the SBT, we both know you'd be singing a very different tune.
BTW, Dr. Robert Piziali, who oversaw the Failure Analysis study, admitted under cross-examination that JFK's Z225 reaction proves he could not have been hit later than Z221.
At the very least, FaAA understood that they needed to account for uncertainties in the exact position of the bodies and the locations of the wounds. The only way that the KL study surpassed the others is in the sheer volume of data. But that's because of the tool they used to get topographic data; the great majority of the data generated is useless to this particular task.
This is just so much nonsense. FYI, the amount of data is crucial in any trajectory analysis. The Knott Lab study was far more sophisticated than the Failure Analysis study on several counts, starting with the fact that Knott did a laser survey of Dealey Plaza and constructed an exact digital replica of the plaza. That's kind of, sort of, important for any trajectory analysis of the SBT, don't you think? The technology to create that replica didn't even exist in 1994.
Knott Lab focused on the key, crucial issue of JFK's and Connally's positions. They were aware of the questions about the location of JFK's back wound, but they proved that no matter which location you choose, JFK and JBC were not aligned with a trajectory that traces from Connally's chest exit wound through his back wound and back through JFK's throat wound and back to the sixth-floor window. It just doesn't work.
Folks, the smears and disinformation coming from Todd and WC apologists about the Knott Lab SBT study is really misleading and unserious.
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This is laughable nonsense. If Knott Lab's study had confirmed the SBT, we both know you'd be singing a very different tune.
BTW, Dr. Robert Piziali, who oversaw the Failure Analysis study, admitted under cross-examination that JFK's Z224-225 reaction proves he could not have been hit later than Z220.
This is just so much nonsense. FYI, the amount of data is crucial in any trajectory analysis. The Knott Lab study was far more sophisticated than the Failure Analysis study on several counts, starting with the fact that Knott did a laser survey of Dealey Plaza and constructed an exact digital replica of the plaza. That's kind of, sort of, important for any trajectory analysis of the SBT, don't you think? The technology to create that replica didn't even exist in 1994.
Knott Lab focused on the key, crucial issue of JFK's and Connally's positions. They were aware of the questions about the location of JFK's back wound, but they proved that no matter which location you choose, JFK and JBC were not aligned with a trajectory that traces from Connally's chest exit wound through his back wound and back through JFK's throat wound and back to the sixth-floor window. It just doesn't work.
Folks, the smears and disinformation coming from Todd and WC apologists about the Knott Lab SBT study is really misleading and unserious.
MG-- "If Knott Lab's study had confirmed the SBT"
Then Knotts Lab would not have made such fools of themselves. I thought you stated how competent they were. What happened that they came up with the useless crap that they did?
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MG-- "If Knott Lab's study had confirmed the SBT"
Then Knotts Lab would not have made such fools of themselves. I thought you stated how competent they were. What happened that they came up with the useless crap that they did?
You guys are like Flat Earthers after being shown satellite photos of the Earth. Knott Lab is one of the most prestigious, recognized forensic engineering and digital reconstruction firms in the country. They've worked on numerous high-profile cases. That's why they were chosen to do the SBT trajectory analysis.
But, oh boy, when the news came out that Knott had debunked the SBT, you guys not only rejected and misrepresented their detailed analysis but started smearing them as incompetent, sloppy, etc., etc.
And, again, Dr. Robert Piziali, who supervised the Failure Analysis trajectory study, admitted under cross-examination that JFK's Z225 reaction proves he must have been by no later than Z221. That admission alone blows to pieces the silly Z224-lapel-flip SBT.
BTW, Dr. John Lattimer, another devout WC apologist, also admitted that JFK's Z225 reactions proves he must have been hit by no later than Z221. If memory serves, Lattimer said Z220 was the moment of the hit.
You guys can't even accept facts when they come from your own experts.
And, FYI, Knott Lab, after creating the first exact digital replica of Dealey Plaza from a laser scan of the plaza, enabling them to measure point to point anywhere in the plaza, matched images from the scene and the Zapruder film using photogrammetry. With a photogrammetric process known as match moving, using every available film and photo of the shooting, they synced key Zapruder frames into the digital replica of the plaza, something that had never been done before. The match moving enabled Knott's experts to identify the correct locations of Kennedy and Connally in the vehicle and, crucially, in relation to the TSBD's sixth-floor window, and to establish their positions frame by frame throughout the shooting.
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You guys are like Flat Earthers after being shown satellite photos of the Earth. Knott Lab is one of the most prestigious, recognized forensic engineering and digital reconstruction firms in the country. They've worked on numerous high-profile cases. That's why they were chosen to do the SBT trajectory analysis.
But, oh boy, when the news came out that Knott had debunked the SBT, you guys not only rejected and misrepresented their detailed analysis but started smearing them as incompetent, sloppy, etc., etc.
And, again, Dr. Robert Piziali, who supervised the Failure Analysis trajectory study, admitted under cross-examination that JFK's Z225 reaction proves he must have been by no later than Z221. That admission alone blows to pieces the silly Z224-lapel-flip SBT.
BTW, Dr. John Lattimer, another devout WC apologist, also admitted that JFK's Z225 reactions proves he must have been hit by no later than Z221. If memory serves, Lattimer said Z220 was the moment of the hit.
You guys can't even accept facts when they come from your own experts.
And, FYI, Knott Lab, after creating the first exact digital replica of Dealey Plaza from a laser scan of the plaza, enabling them to measure point to point anywhere in the plaza, matched images from the scene and the Zapruder film using photogrammetry. With a photogrammetric process known as match moving, using every available film and photo of the shooting, they synced key Zapruder frames into the digital replica of the plaza, something that had never been done before. The match moving enabled Knott's experts to identify the correct locations of Kennedy and Connally in the vehicle and, crucially, in relation to the TSBD's sixth-floor window, and to establish their positions frame by frame throughout the shooting.
You can’t form an opinion by watching the films yourself? It takes someone to tell you what to think?
Knotts Lab could have produced something worth acknowledging but instead failed to ask themselves the simple question—does this make sense and made fools of themselves.
You still can't explain the obvious problems with their cartoon?
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It is what I thought. All smoke and no fire. Knotts Lab is nothing but a joke. All the experts doing your thinking for you and that has left you unable to explain the obvious errors in Knotts Lab’s dubious work. If you cannot explain the problems with the animation, is there any way you can ask the experts to help you?
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You can’t form an opinion by watching the films yourself? It takes someone to tell you what to think?
Knotts Lab could have produced something worth acknowledging but instead failed to ask themselves the simple question—does this make sense and made fools of themselves. You still can't explain the obvious problems with their cartoon?
A "cartoon"? You mean the computer-generated animation based on the laser-scanned digital replica of Dealey Plaza, based on every known photo and film of the shooting, and based on a photogrammetric match-moving analysis that enabled Knott's experts to identify the correct locations of Kennedy and Connally in the vehicle and in relation to the sixth-floor window frame by frame during the shooting?
You guys gushed over Dale Myers' "cartoon" (read: animation) that pretended to show the SBT was possible. You didn't dismiss it as a "cartoon."
I notice you said nothing about the fact that Dr. Piziali, who oversaw the Failure Analysis test, admitted that JFK's Z225 reaction proves he must have been hit at least four frames earlier, which destroys the silly lapel-flip SBT. Just never mind when your own experts refute your myths, right?
Obviously, you're never going to admit you're wrong about the SBT, because then you'd have to admit that more than one gunman fired at JFK.
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Obviously, you're never going to admit you're wrong about the SBT, because then you'd have to admit that more than one gunman fired at JFK.
Obviously, you're full of high-fructose beans.
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You guys are like Flat Earthers after being shown satellite photos of the Earth. Knott Lab is one of the most prestigious, recognized forensic engineering and digital reconstruction firms in the country. They've worked on numerous high-profile cases. That's why they were chosen to do the SBT trajectory analysis.
But, oh boy, when the news came out that Knott had debunked the SBT, you guys not only rejected and misrepresented their detailed analysis but started smearing them as incompetent, sloppy, etc., etc.
And, again, Dr. Robert Piziali, who supervised the Failure Analysis trajectory study, admitted under cross-examination that JFK's Z225 reaction proves he must have been by no later than Z221. That admission alone blows to pieces the silly Z224-lapel-flip SBT.
BTW, Dr. John Lattimer, another devout WC apologist, also admitted that JFK's Z225 reactions proves he must have been hit by no later than Z221. If memory serves, Lattimer said Z220 was the moment of the hit.
You guys can't even accept facts when they come from your own experts.
And, FYI, Knott Lab, after creating the first exact digital replica of Dealey Plaza from a laser scan of the plaza, enabling them to measure point to point anywhere in the plaza, matched images from the scene and the Zapruder film using photogrammetry. With a photogrammetric process known as match moving, using every available film and photo of the shooting, they synced key Zapruder frames into the digital replica of the plaza, something that had never been done before. The match moving enabled Knott's experts to identify the correct locations of Kennedy and Connally in the vehicle and, crucially, in relation to the TSBD's sixth-floor window, and to establish their positions frame by frame throughout the shooting.
Where can one read the Knott study? Not a synopsis of the study or a video synopsis of it, but the actual full study itself. What generation copy, or copies, of the Zapruder film did they use? Did they use the Betzner and Willis photos? If so, what generation copies were they? How far inboard of JFK did they determine Connally to be? Did they factor in the right rotation of Connally when concluding that the SBT could not work? It seems that they did not. In a video synopsis of theirs, they say that they found a significant angle difference between the entry/exit points on JFK and Connally.
(https://i.imgur.com/7cY2DMX.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/s3jZf2l.png)
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MG: The only forensic engineering and digital reconstruction firm that has analyzed the SBT trajectories, the prestigious Knott Laboratory ...The Knott SBT trajectory analysis dwarfs all previous analyses in sophistication and data volume
Not true. Failure Analysis Associates was (and still is, under the name Exponent) performed a trajectory study in 1994 for the ABA mock trial. It was scientifically superior to the amateurish, half-finished mess that KL did. At the very least, FaAA understood that they needed to account for uncertainties in the exact position of the bodies and the locations of the wounds. The only way that the KL study surpassed the others is in the sheer volume of data. But that's because of the tool they used to get topographic data; the great majority of the data generated is useless to this particular task.
I'm not familiar with the particulars of the FAA study done for the SBT trajectory. However, I suspect that it does not reach the gold standard of the study done by the ITEK Corp in 1976. The ITEK film analysis placed Connally's face 6.4" +/- 2.2" inboard of Kennedy. They had the original Zapruder film at their disposal, as well as a first generation copy. They also had high quality copies of the Betzner and Willis photos. Among their team were those with experience in photographic science, special photographic processing, photo interpretation, image analysis, coherent optical image processing, photogrammetry, and digital image processing. When factoring in the approximate 30 degrees right rotation of Connally, the SBT lateral angle of trajectory fits well beyond the reach of those trying to destroy the SBT.
Knott does not state how far inboard that they determined that Connally was. Nor are they specific on what materials they used for their study. They only say that he was not 6" to 10" inboard and that they used 25 historic photographs and 7 frames of the Zapruder film. What copy of the film they used is not revealed by them. Nor are we told what the historic photographs are. They have not made their full study available. All we have is worthless claims that lack any real support.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=60448#relPageId=47
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This is laughable nonsense. If Knott Lab's study had confirmed the SBT, we both know you'd be singing a very different tune.
BTW, Dr. Robert Piziali, who oversaw the Failure Analysis study, admitted under cross-examination that JFK's Z225 reaction proves he could not have been hit later than Z221.
This is just so much nonsense. FYI, the amount of data is crucial in any trajectory analysis. The Knott Lab study was far more sophisticated than the Failure Analysis study on several counts, starting with the fact that Knott did a laser survey of Dealey Plaza and constructed an exact digital replica of the plaza. That's kind of, sort of, important for any trajectory analysis of the SBT, don't you think? The technology to create that replica didn't even exist in 1994.
Knott Lab focused on the key, crucial issue of JFK's and Connally's positions. They were aware of the questions about the location of JFK's back wound, but they proved that no matter which location you choose, JFK and JBC were not aligned with a trajectory that traces from Connally's chest exit wound through his back wound and back through JFK's throat wound and back to the sixth-floor window. It just doesn't work.
Folks, the smears and disinformation coming from Todd and WC apologists about the Knott Lab SBT study is really misleading and unserious.
MG: If Knott Lab's study had confirmed the SBT, we both know you'd be singing a very different tune.
Now you presume to read my mind! But, sorry, no. You are simply wrong. Had it supported the SBT, I would put it in the same place that I do with Myers' similar effort: interesting, but nowhere rigorous enough for the conclusion to be significant.
MG: FYI, the amount of data is crucial in any trajectory analysis.
That's not true at all. All you need to know is the relative position and orientation of the gun and targets, as well as the location of the bullet holes in the targets. Anything beyond that might make for a prettier presentation, but it's superfluous to the actual analysis.
MG: The Knott Lab study was far more sophisticated than the Failure Analysis study on several counts, starting with the fact that Knott did a laser survey of Dealey Plaza and constructed an exact digital replica of the plaza. That's kind of, sort of, important for any trajectory analysis of the SBT, don't you think? The technology to create that replica didn't even exist in 1994.
The advantage of using a 3d laser scanner over older methods, like laser theodolites, is that it's faster and cheaper. Not necessarily better or more accurate. With the 3d scanner, a couple of guys can survey something like Dealey Plaza in a couple of hours. Older methods would have required a days and at least one full survey team to do the same thing. The other advantage is that the laser scanner will interface directly to your CAD/visualization software so the data generated by the survey can be directly transferred and automatically transformed into a 3d model. You probably get a more accurate model, but realistically any improvement is miniscule when cast against the scale of the problem. Going from +/- 1" to +/- 1/8" is an improvement; however, at 65 yards, the 1" max difference results in a 0.24 degree difference in angle. That's not even a rounding error in this context.
MG: Knott Lab focused on the key, crucial issue of JFK's and Connally's positions.
So, wait. First you make this big fuss about KL using the laser scanner to survey Dealey Plaza. Then you forget that and switch to "oh, but they were really focusing on the positions of JFK and JBC," a subject for which the laser scanner is useless, unless you have a time machine.
MG: They were aware of the questions about the location of JFK's back wound, but they proved that no matter which location you choose, JFK and JBC were not aligned with a trajectory that traces from Connally's chest exit wound through his back wound and back through JFK's throat wound and back to the sixth-floor window. It just doesn't work.
They also have Connally leaning forward, which he wasn't. JFK is leaning backwards, but it you look at the other photographs take of the limousine that day, he's always leaning forwards when he turns to the left. Connally is also slightly larger, especially through the shoulders. They put the back wound at the JFK's centerline, which is indefensible, and also artificially pushes the trajectory to the left. They have the rifle being fired from the west side of the SN window, like they don't really know where the sniper's nest actually was. A close look at the materials released by Knott Labs, and it looks, at best, like a half-finished project that was cut short, or maybe something based on faulty research. It looks nice at first glance, but fails to convince on thorough examination.
MG: Folks, the smears and disinformation coming from Todd and WC apologists about the Knott Lab SBT study is really misleading and unserious.
Ad hominem well-poisoning isn't a convincing substitute for evidence and logic. Maybe you should try the latter?
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Where can one read the Knott study? Not a synopsis of the study or a video synopsis of it, but the actual full study itself. What generation copy, or copies, of the Zapruder film did they use? Did they use the Betzner and Willis photos? If so, what generation copies were they? How far inboard of JFK did they determine Connally to be? Did they factor in the right rotation of Connally when concluding that the SBT could not work? It seems that they did not. In a video synopsis of theirs, they say that they found a significant angle difference between the entry/exit points on JFK and Connally.
(https://i.imgur.com/7cY2DMX.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/s3jZf2l.png)
Has nobody noticed that the Knott reconstruction has the bullet passing through JFK and hitting Connally in the back.
For some reason I'm not sure about, it never occurred to the good folk at Knott to explain this bizarre discrepancy.
It never occurred to them that it highlighted that there model was badly awry in some way.
Did they believe that there was a bullet hole somewhere else in JBC's back?
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(https://i.postimg.cc/prNwgWFF/knott4.png) (https://postimages.org/)
This is a still from the original Knott Labs animation.
It clearly demonstrates that JBC is positioned incorrectly in relation to JFK. JBC appears to be sat directly in front of JFK whereas, in reality, he should be way more to his left.
Knott did a great job of recreating Dealey Plaza. They did an OK job of recreating the limo. They did an extremely poor job of positioning the occupants of the limo.
Moving JBC to his left would bring the spot where Knott has the bullet hitting his back more in line with reality.
.(https://i.postimg.cc/kgxkL6NF/knott2.png) (https://postimages.org/)
There are so many issues with the above still it's hard to know where to begin and it's hard to understand how Knott Labs never had to explain these issues.
1] Why is the bullet striking JFK in the wrong place.
2] Why is it exiting his chest
3] How can the bullet be shown hitting JBC in that position when no bullet hole was found there
4] The red line (which represents the path of the bullet through JBC) indicates that he was shot by JFK! How can this be?
The Knott Labs animation is garbage and has done nothing to further our understanding of the assassination. It is as if those responsible for it were completely unaware of the various injuries suffered by the two men.
An analysis of the Z-film reveals, beyond any reasonable doubt, that both JFK and JBC were shot through at the same time, presumably by the same bullet.
The idea that this bullet was CE399 is a joke.
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I've reproduced this post made by John Mytton which nicely highlights Knott Labs mediocre efforts to deal with this issue:
Let's not lose track of the actual purpose of what Knott Laboratory actually submits into courts, they basically compose what amounts to a video game graphic and this three dimensional representation "helps" the jury visualize what happened, the Knott Labs visuals lack the precision to be accepted as conclusive proof, hence their explanation on their web page,
Forensic Visualization
Forensic visualization aids attorneys through scientifically accurate reconstructions of incidents or accidents.
Recent consumer behavior studies have found that, “Viewers retain 95% of a message when they watch it in a video compared to just 10% when reading it in text.” Our visualizations helps investigators and attorneys convey the complexities of a case in a format that jurors can easily and quickly comprehend.
https://knottlab.com/services/forensic-visualization/
And again because it's so important, Knott Labs computer modelling lacks the desired precision for conclusive proof, and especially since the position of the Limo and the occupants has information derived from Zapruder's fuzzy two dimensional film frame which shows no depth and therefore the "Z" axis placement has to be estimated. And don't forget John Orr a well known conspiracist commissioned this work, so Knott Lab clearly had a vested interest in producing results to satisfy their paying client.
Knott Lab's three dimensional approximation based on a two dimensional image.
(https://i.postimg.cc/k5M3JX1F/Don-Knotts-lab-sbf.gif)
(https://i.postimg.cc/LsHnmKF6/Z225-knotts-lab.jpg)
As the Limo entered Houston, note Connally's position.
(https://i.postimg.cc/FsxPMJwh/muchmore-connally-enter-houston.jpg)
JohnM
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Also, regarding the throat wound, Dr. Nathan Jacobs observed that the Parkland doctors described a laceration of the pharynx and trachea that was larger than the small throat wound, which would usually indicate the bullet traveled from front to back. The interior damage noted below the level of the throat wound indicates that the projectile, whether a bullet, a bullet fragment, or a glass fragment, ranged downward after it entered the throat
When Harold Weisberg examined high-quality photos of JFK's shirt at the National Archives, he noticed there is less blood inside the collar band than on the outside, which doesn't fit the SBT scenario. If a bullet had exited the throat, one would expect there would be just as much blood, if not more, on the inside of the collar band as on the outside of it. Not only did Weisberg find this is not the case, but he also discovered that where the sides of the shirt overlap, there is no blood at all:
This is less blood inside the collar band than on the outside of the fabric, not consistent with the
bloodstains coming from the body side. Where the sides of the shirt overlapped in wearing,
no blood. (Post Mortem, p. 347)
Weisberg also found evidence that confirmed the belief that the slits were made by the emergency room nurses as they cut away the president's clothing; he could see the zigzag mark of a cutting blade on the slits:
The dead giveaway of the fabrication that this is where the magical bullet must have exited,
according to the official story, is the nonmagical, mute evidence of the slit on the left side.
The irregular, zigzag mark of a cutting blade is visible with an engraver's lens no more powerful
than the 10-power miniature I carry. (Post Mortem, p. 347)
One of the nurses confirmed this to researcher Henry Hurt.
And, it bears repeating (1) the FBI found no metallic traces around the shirt slits, a clear indication that no bullet exited the throat, and (2) the released photos of JFK's tie prove there was no hole through the tie but only a small nick on the left edge of the knot, proving that no bullet exited the throat, since the tie knot was squarely centered between the shirt collar bands, so no bullet could have exited the slits without tearing through the tie.
All the bogus SBT animations in the world cannot overturn these facts.
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Also, regarding the throat wound, Dr. Nathan Jacobs observed that the Parkland doctors described a laceration of the pharynx and trachea that was larger than the small throat wound, which would usually indicate the bullet traveled from front to back. The interior damage noted below the level of the throat wound indicates that the projectile, whether a bullet, a bullet fragment, or a glass fragment, ranged downward after it entered the throat
When Harold Weisberg examined high-quality photos of JFK's shirt at the National Archives, he noticed there is less blood inside the collar band than on the outside, which doesn't fit the SBT scenario. If a bullet had exited the throat, one would expect there would be just as much blood, if not more, on the inside of the collar band as on the outside of it. Not only did Weisberg find this is not the case, but he also discovered that where the sides of the shirt overlap, there is no blood at all:
This is less blood inside the collar band than on the outside of the fabric, not consistent with the
bloodstains coming from the body side. Where the sides of the shirt overlapped in wearing,
no blood. (Post Mortem, p. 347)
Weisberg also found evidence that confirmed the belief that the slits were made by the emergency room nurses as they cut away the president's clothing; he could see the zigzag mark of a cutting blade on the slits:
The dead giveaway of the fabrication that this is where the magical bullet must have exited,
according to the official story, is the nonmagical, mute evidence of the slit on the left side.
The irregular, zigzag mark of a cutting blade is visible with an engraver's lens no more powerful
than the 10-power miniature I carry. (Post Mortem, p. 347)
One of the nurses confirmed this to researcher Henry Hurt.
And, it bears repeating (1) the FBI found no metallic traces around the shirt slits, a clear indication that no bullet exited the throat, and (2) the released photos of JFK's tie prove there was no hole through the tie but only a small nick on the left edge of the knot, proving that no bullet exited the throat, since the tie knot was squarely centered between the shirt collar bands, so no bullet could have exited the slits without tearing through the tie.
All the bogus SBT animations in the world cannot overturn these facts.
Good info!
The SBT functions like an IQ test...
It's all crap made up by Arlen Specter, the water boy for the Warren Commission...
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A "cartoon"? You mean the computer-generated animation based on the laser-scanned digital replica of Dealey Plaza, based on every known photo and film of the shooting, and based on a photogrammetric match-moving analysis that enabled Knott's experts to identify the correct locations of Kennedy and Connally in the vehicle and in relation to the sixth-floor window frame by frame during the shooting?
You guys gushed over Dale Myers' "cartoon" (read: animation) that pretended to show the SBT was possible. You didn't dismiss it as a "cartoon."
I notice you said nothing about the fact that Dr. Piziali, who oversaw the Failure Analysis test, admitted that JFK's Z225 reaction proves he must have been hit at least four frames earlier, which destroys the silly lapel-flip SBT. Just never mind when your own experts refute your myths, right?
Obviously, you're never going to admit you're wrong about the SBT, because then you'd have to admit that more than one gunman fired at JFK.
MG--"Obviously, you're never going to admit you're wrong about the SBT, because then you'd have to admit that more than one gunman fired at JFK."
Obviously, you are never going to prove there even was a third shot. Without a third shot all this never-ending nonsense just evaporates and goes away. All the supposed experts and all your bizarre theories shrivel up and fade away. Sorry to be the one to have to explain it to you over and over but the SBT is the only answer. When are you going to finally admit there was only two shots and not three? Josiah sure thought so and wrote about it in Six Seconds in Dallas.
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MG--"Obviously, you're never going to admit you're wrong about the SBT, because then you'd have to admit that more than one gunman fired at JFK."
Obviously, you are never going to prove there even was a third shot. Without a third shot all this never-ending nonsense just evaporates and goes away. All the supposed experts and all your bizarre theories shrivel up and fade away. Sorry to be the one to have to explain it to you over and over but the SBT is the only answer. When are you going to finally admit there was only two shots and not three? Josiah sure thought so and wrote about it in Six Seconds in Dallas.
I think this is preposterous. Consider:
-- There's the Tague wounding.
-- There's the shot that five witnesses saw strike the street early in the shooting.
-- There's the 7.65 mm shell that we now know was found in Dealey Plaza within a week after the shooting and placed in an FBI evidence envelope (FBI Field Office Dallas 89-43-1A-122).
-- There's the deformed bullet that a Navy chief petty officer found in the limousine and handed to Dr. James Young at the autopsy.
-- There's the bullet that struck the grass on the south side of Elm Street near a manhole cover, about 350 feet from the TSBD. The hole made by the bullet was even photographed, and the picture appeared in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram on 11/23/63.
-- There's the bullet that stuck the middle of the sidewalk on the north side of Elm Street, creating a 4-inch long and 1/4-inch deep dug-out mark in the sidewalk. Dallas resident Eugene Aldredge saw the dug-out mark and assumed, logically enough, that the mark had surely been noticed by law enforcement officials and would be discussed in full in the Warren Commission's report. When he realized the mark apparently had been "overlooked," he immediately contacted the FBI and told them about it. Incredibly, the FBI said it could not be a bullet mark because it could not have come from the sixth-floor window!
-- There are the seven blur episodes in the Zapruder film.
-- There are reactions to at least six shots in the Zapruder film.
-- There are at least four gunshot impulses on the DPD dictabelt recording that was made during the assassination by a patrolman in Dealey Plaza with his mic left on.
For more info, see
"Extra Bullets and Missed Shots in Dealey Plaza"
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WRwhDQ9HMydf5pICsHwgtkoNKw0YSO8T/view
"The HSCA's Acoustical Evidence: Proof of a Second Gunman in the JFK Assassination"
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KvdvH8gTqFgMn-2vTI5ppg_egWxRKg9U/view
"Reactions to Six Shots in the Zapruder Film"
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nnp3Vch_KMOB_qufAhlQOCLTTS9jqNV0/view
I present more evidence on the six shot reactions in my book A Comforting Lie: The Myth that a Lone Gunman Killed President Kennedy.
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IQ Test (1 minute to complete):
The damage and wounds pictured below (12 in all) were caused by:
(https://i.ibb.co/wZ2RzTXD/Screenshot-2025-07-23-at-11-21-08-AM.png)
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I think this is preposterous. Consider:
-- There's the Tague wounding.
-- There's the shot that five witnesses saw strike the street early in the shooting.
-- There's the 7.65 mm shell that we now know was found in Dealey Plaza within a week after the shooting and placed in an FBI evidence envelope (FBI Field Office Dallas 89-43-1A-122).
-- There's the deformed bullet that a Navy chief petty officer found in the limousine and handed to Dr. James Young at the autopsy.
-- There's the bullet that struck the grass on the south side of Elm Street near a manhole cover, about 350 feet from the TSBD. The hole made by the bullet was even photographed, and the picture appeared in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram on 11/23/63.
-- There's the bullet that stuck the middle of the sidewalk on the north side of Elm Street, creating a 4-inch long and 1/4-inch deep dug-out mark in the sidewalk. Dallas resident Eugene Aldredge saw the dug-out mark and assumed, logically enough, that the mark had surely been noticed by law enforcement officials and would be discussed in full in the Warren Commission's report. When he realized the mark apparently had been "overlooked," he immediately contacted the FBI and told them about it. Incredibly, the FBI said it could not be a bullet mark because it could not have come from the sixth-floor window!
-- There are the seven blur episodes in the Zapruder film.
-- There are reactions to at least six shots in the Zapruder film.
-- There are at least four gunshot impulses on the DPD dictabelt recording that was made during the assassination by a patrolman in Dealey Plaza with his mic left on.
For more info, see
"Extra Bullets and Missed Shots in Dealey Plaza"
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WRwhDQ9HMydf5pICsHwgtkoNKw0YSO8T/view
"The HSCA's Acoustical Evidence: Proof of a Second Gunman in the JFK Assassination"
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KvdvH8gTqFgMn-2vTI5ppg_egWxRKg9U/view
"Reactions to Six Shots in the Zapruder Film"
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nnp3Vch_KMOB_qufAhlQOCLTTS9jqNV0/view
I present more evidence on the six shot reactions in my book A Comforting Lie: The Myth that a Lone Gunman Killed President Kennedy.
I think this is preposterous. Consider:
A whole lot of bluster, but the question is can you prove there was a third shot?
-- There's the Tague wounding.
Wounding? Really, wounding? He said this mark on his cheek occurred on the second shot if even then.
-- There's the shot that five witnesses saw strike the street early in the shooting.
In these statements all the shots are accounted for, three shots hit JFK and JBC, one shot hits the ground. Where is the shot that supposedly caused Tague's "wounding" in these statements?
-- There's the 7.65 mm shell that we now know was found in Dealey Plaza within a week after the shooting and placed in an FBI evidence envelope (FBI Field Office Dallas 89-43-1A-122).
So, there are no chain of custody or authenticity problems with this fantasy story, it just must be true. Thanks for laugh
-- There's the deformed bullet that a Navy chief petty officer found in the limousine and handed to Dr. James Young at the autopsy.
So, there are no chain of custody or authenticity problems also with this story, it just must be true. Again, thanks for laugh
-- There's the bullet that struck the grass on the south side of Elm Street near a manhole cover, about 350 feet from the TSBD. The hole made by the bullet was even photographed, and the picture appeared in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram on 11/23/63.
Hole? Proof of anything?
-- There's the bullet that stuck the middle of the sidewalk on the north side of Elm Street, creating a 4-inch long and 1/4-inch deep dug-out mark in the sidewalk. Dallas resident Eugene Aldredge saw the dug-out mark and assumed, logically enough, that the mark had surely been noticed by law enforcement officials and would be discussed in full in the Warren Commission's report. When he realized the mark apparently had been "overlooked," he immediately contacted the FBI and told them about it. Incredibly, the FBI said it could not be a bullet mark because it could not have come from the sixth-floor window!
Relate this to the assassination.
-- There are the seven blur episodes in the Zapruder film.
Zapruder is a two shot witness
-- There are reactions to at least six shots in the Zapruder film.
Given that Zapruder is a two shot witness, that would be really hard to believe.
-- There are at least four gunshot impulses on the DPD dictabelt recording that was made during the assassination by a patrolman in Dealey Plaza with his mic left on.
Already debunked a long time ago. Maybe you just haven’t heard.
For more info, see
"Extra Bullets and Missed Shots in Dealey Plaza"
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WRwhDQ9HMydf5pICsHwgtkoNKw0YSO8T/view
"The HSCA's Acoustical Evidence: Proof of a Second Gunman in the JFK Assassination"
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KvdvH8gTqFgMn-2vTI5ppg_egWxRKg9U/view
"Reactions to Six Shots in the Zapruder Film"
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nnp3Vch_KMOB_qufAhlQOCLTTS9jqNV0/view
I present more evidence on the six shot reactions in my book A Comforting Lie: The Myth that a Lone Gunman Killed President Kennedy.
[/b]
Give me a break. These works of fiction are a lot of things, but information is not one of them. Giving a title to drivel doesn’t make the drivel any more believable.
The question has been answered. You have not proven there even was a third shot.
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This discussion is surreal. SBT believers are still in denial about hard physical evidence that proves the SBT never happened: the front JFK shirt slits, the rear coat and shirt holes, and the tie.
There was a reason that the WC did not publish FBI Exhibit 60, the FBI crime lab photo of the front shirt slits, in the Commission's volumes. Anyone can see that the slits are below the collar band. Any bullet exiting the slits would have had to tear through the middle of the tie knot. No bullet exiting the slits could have magically weaved around the body of the tie knot and nicked the knot's left edge (and then magically readjusted its course to head toward Connally's right armpit).
There was also a reason that the WC did not publish usable photos of JFK's tie. Harold Weisberg obtained high-quality photos of both sides of the tie. The first thing he noticed was the stunning fact that there was no hole through the tie. There was a small nick on the tie knot's left edge, but no hole beneath the nick and no hole anywhere else in the tie. This proves that no bullet exited the throat, since the tie knot was about 1/2 inch in depth/thickness and was neatly centered between the ends of JFK's collar.
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This discussion is surreal. SBT believers are still in denial about hard physical evidence that proves the SBT never happened: the front JFK shirt slits, the rear coat and shirt holes, and the tie.
There was a reason that the WC did not publish FBI Exhibit 60, the FBI crime lab photo of the front shirt slits, in the Commission's volumes. Anyone can see that the slits are below the collar band. Any bullet exiting the slits would have had to tear though the middle of the tie knot. No bullet exiting the slits could have magically weaved around the body of the tie knot and nicked the knot's left edge (and then magically readjusted its course to head toward Connally's right armpit).
There was also a reason that the WC did not publish usable photos of JFK's tie. Harold Weisberg obtained high-quality photos of both sides of the tie. The first thing he noticed was the stunning fact that there was no hole through the tie. There was a small nick on the tie knot's left edge, but no hole beneath the nick and no hole anywhere else in the tie. This proves that no bullet exited the throat, since the tie knot was about 1/2 inch in depth/thickness and was neatly centered between the ends of JFK's collar.
You are talking about very specific forensic evidence. As I used to suggest to Sandy Larsen, take your theory to the Journal of Forensic Sciences, , https://www.aafs.org/journal-forensic-sciences, and see if it survives the peer-review process. It won't, but at least then you can write an article for Jim DiEugenio as to how even the Journal is in lockstep with the LN narrative.
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There's the Tague wounding.
Griffith,
IIRC, more than half of the fatal head-shot bullet was never recovered.
It's quite possible that James Tague was nicked by a fragment thereof, or by a piece of curb that was broken off by said fragment.
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You are talking about very specific forensic evidence. As I used to suggest to Sandy Larsen, take your theory to the Journal of Forensic Sciences, https://www.aafs.org/journal-forensic-sciences, and see if it survives the peer-review process. It won't, but at least then you can write an article for Jim DiEugenio as to how even the Journal is in lockstep with the LN narrative.
We both know you guys would just ignore it, just like you did when the Journal of Forensic Sciences published Don Olson and Ralph Turner's detailed article on the photographic evidence that JFK was hit just before Z190:
Don Olson and Ralph Turner, “Photographic Evidence and the Assassination of President John F. Kennedy,” Journal of Forensic Sciences, 16:4, October 1971, pp. 399-419
Even when the HSCA's photographic evidence panel confirmed that the Zapruder film and the Willis slides prove JFK was hit at or before Z190, you guys still refused to face facts on this issue because Connally was clearly not hit until Z234 at the earliest.
You don't have to be a forensic expert to figure out that if there was no hole through the tie, then no bullet exited the throat nor exited the shirt slits because the tie knot was neatly centered between JFK's collar and was directly over the shirt slits. This, of course, explains why no metallic traces were found around the shirt slits, and it explains the fact that Dr. Carrico and one of the Parkland nurses confirmed that the nurses made the shirt slits when they were hurriedly cutting away JFK's clothing. It also explains why two other Parkland doctors said the throat wound was visible before JFK's shirt and tie were removed--no wound at the level of the shirt slits would have been visible with the shirt and tie still on.
You don't have to be a forensic expert to see that JFK's tie was centered between the collar, that the shirt slits were just below the interior collar band and parallel with the bottom half of the ends of the exterior collar band, and that any bullet exiting the shirt slits would have had to tear through the middle area of the tie knot. But there was no hole through the tie, only a small nick on the tie knot's left edge made by the Parkland nurses, which is why Dr. Carrico said he didn't see any nick in the tie nor slits in the front of the shirt until after the nurses began hurriedly cutting away JFK's clothing.
The SBT was a farse from the moment it was concocted.
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We both know you guys would just ignore [the physical evidence of the front JFK shirt slits, the rear coat and shirt holes, and the "nick" in tie which allegedly prove that the SBT is false], just like you did when the Journal of Forensic Sciences published Don Olson and Ralph Turner's detailed article on the photographic evidence that JFK was hit just before Z190.
Did Olson's and Turner's analysis involve taking a look at the limo's passengers' conscious reactions to the sounds of the alleged "just-before-Z190" shot, or did most, if not all, of those witnesses (including "hit" JFK) conveniently disappear from Zapruder's view behind the Stemmons Freeway sign, gosh-darn-it?
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Did Olson's and Turner's analysis involve taking a look at the limo's passengers' conscious reactions to the sounds of the alleged "just-before-Z190" shot, or did most, if not all, of those witnesses (including "hit" JFK) conveniently disappear from Zapruder's view behind the Stemmons Freeway sign, gosh-darn-it?
https://ia601208.us.archive.org/0/items/nsia-OlsonDon/nsia-OlsonDon/Olson%20Don%2005_text.pdf
It's rather weak sauce. Of course Griffith would embrace it.