JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate => Topic started by: Fred Litwin on July 10, 2025, 12:25:14 PM
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More Morley Nothingburgers On the Way
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/325b1c_34f4d32f6178417a80396fd20fae6a86~mv2.png/v1/fill/w_410,h_444,al_c,q_85,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01,enc_avif,quality_auto/325b1c_34f4d32f6178417a80396fd20fae6a86~mv2.png)
Get ready. Morley has asked for more files to be released. None of them will tell us anything.
https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/more-morley-nothingburgers-on-the-way (https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/more-morley-nothingburgers-on-the-way)
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More Morley Nothingburgers On the Way
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/325b1c_34f4d32f6178417a80396fd20fae6a86~mv2.png/v1/fill/w_410,h_444,al_c,q_85,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01,enc_avif,quality_auto/325b1c_34f4d32f6178417a80396fd20fae6a86~mv2.png)
Get ready. Morley has asked for more files to be released. None of them will tell us anything.
https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/more-morley-nothingburgers-on-the-way (https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/more-morley-nothingburgers-on-the-way)
I'll suggest that at this point he's simply on a crusade against the CIA. I don't think deep down he really believes that Angleton et al. killed JFK. He can't get from AMSPELL to Dallas and he knows it. Oswald instigated that confrontation with DRE, specifically with Bringuier. It wasn't Joannides or his supposed "agents" doing this. It was in response to Oswald trying to create an event to pad his pro-Castro resume. No one in the DRE said that Joannides instructed them in any way on this. This was three months before the assassination and you can't get to that from New Orleans. He knows it but won't include those facts.
And Harvey had nothing to do with this at all. It's all scattershot, grabbing at things. But he wants to expose as much of what they did during that period as he can. Notice that he seldom mentions how the Kennedys were driving all of this, the covert program against Cuba. It's the "rogue CIA" myth in action.
It's using the assassination, as many on the Left do, for their crusade against the CIA, the Cold War policies, of that period.
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I'll suggest that at this point he's simply on a crusade against the CIA. I don't think deep down he really believes that Angleton et al. killed JFK. He can't get from AMSPELL to Dallas and he knows it. And Harvey had nothing to do with this at all. It's all scattershot, grabbing at things. But he wants to expose as much of what they did during that period as he can. Notice that he seldom mentions how the Kennedys were driving all of this, the covert program against Cuba. It's the "rogue CIA" myth in action.
It's using the assassination, as many on the Left do, for their crusade against the CIA, the Cold War policies, of that period.
Strangely, one of his main writers, Chester "Chad" Nagle, Jr., is a far-right Trump supporter.
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It's using the assassination, as many on the Left do, for their crusade against the CIA, the Cold War policies, of that period.
Amazing.
Honest question, should the CIA be held accountable (or not) for lying to investigators and obstructing investigations into JFK's murder?
Morley exposing the fact that the CIA lied on several occasions about facts related to the Kennedy assassination should be a huge scandal. But according to you, Morley is a bad guy for asking questions and attempting to clear up the historical records which are confusing due to intentional obstruction.
And I don't know where you get the idea that it's only the far-Left that wants accountability from our government. Lots of people who voted for Trump supported his promise to open the Esptein/JFK/MLK/RFK files.
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Amazing.
Honest question, should the CIA be held accountable (or not) for lying to investigators and obstructing investigations into JFK's murder?
Morley exposing the fact that the CIA lied on several occasions about facts related to the Kennedy assassination should be a huge scandal. But according to you, Morley is a bad guy for asking questions and attempting to clear up the historical records which are confusing due to intentional obstruction.
And I don't know where you get the idea that it's only the far-Left that wants accountability from our government. Lots of people who voted for Trump supported his promise to open the Esptein/JFK/MLK/RFK files.
Did you know that a probable KGB mole in the CIA by the name of Bruce Leonard Solie (look him up) hid Office of Security files on Oswald from the Church Committee and the HSCA, and, according to JFKA conspiracy theorist Malcolm Blunt, was "all over Clay Shaw for Jim Garrison"?
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Litwin:
More Morley Nothingburgers on the way
... it comes together with Freddie fries and an extra McAdamsburger.
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Litwin: ... it comes together with Freddie fries and an extra McAdamsburger.
Dear Karl,
The important thing is that you, like all JFKA conspiracy theorists, are full of beans.
Tell Alan Dale at the so-called Education Forum to tell John Newman that KGB officer Sergey Papushin (IJDECANTER / FLASH RUN), the guy who said Oswald was an agent for the Belarussian KGB, was discredited as a source in the Aleksandr Zhomov (PROLOGUE) false-defector case by former Soviet/East European Division Chief Milton Bearden in his book, The Main Enemy, and by one of the CIA analysts who helped uncover Aldrich Ames, Sandra Grimes, in her book, Circle of Treason.
-- Tom
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Amazing.
Honest question, should the CIA be held accountable (or not) for lying to investigators and obstructing investigations into JFK's murder?
Morley exposing the fact that the CIA lied on several occasions about facts related to the Kennedy assassination should be a huge scandal. But according to you, Morley is a bad guy for asking questions and attempting to clear up the historical records which are confusing due to intentional obstruction.
And I don't know where you get the idea that it's only the far-Left that wants accountability from our government. Lots of people who voted for Trump supported his promise to open the Esptein/JFK/MLK/RFK files.
Nearly every time Morley's falsehoods and smears are exposed as being just that you use the "Don't you want to hold the government accountable?" response. Whenever Morley has said release this or release that we say, "Yes, release them. The AARB files, Joannides personnel files. Whatever. Release them all."
For the nth time, Jon, release these files. Harvey's files, Joannides files, whatever. No one here is saying otherwise. Hold the people accountable if it's *proven" they did wrong. But an allegation is not proof.
Now do you want to please address the points that Fred and others have made about his reckless allegations? Or do you not care? What's amazing is that you ignore what Morley actually says, what he claims, not suspects, but claims people did, what document "X" or "Y" will show. He accuses people of murder, conspiracy, obstruction of justice, framing innocent men, and essentially treason.
And when his claims are found to have no basis, when the evidence he claims that will show this are produced and they don't show it, you don't seem to care or hold him accountable. Morley is often quoted in the media on the assassination, on these files; he's testified to Congress. He's not a obscure conspiracy researcher that nobody knows. If he was I wouldn't care what he says.
Many political Left conspiracists want to get the CIA (and now the MAGA Right too). Fine, in some cases they are correct about it, about exposing the abuses by them. But please stop using the assassination as an instrument to do so. Which, as I said above, is what I think Morley is now doing. You can't take the "good" Morley and excuse the "bad".
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Every time Morley's falsehoods and smears are exposed as being just that you use the "Don't you want to hold the government accountable?" dodge. Whenever Morley has said release this or release that we say, "Yes, release them. The AARB files, Joannides personnel files. Whatever. Release them all."
For the nth time, release Harvey's files. Joannides files. No one here is saying otherwise. There. Satisfied?
Now do you want to address the points that Fred and others have made about his allegations? Or do you not care? What's amazing is that you ignore what Morley says, what he claims people did, what document "X" or "Y" will show. He accuses people of murder, conspiracy, obstruction of justice, framing innocent men, and essentially treason.
And when his claims are found to have no basis, when the evidence he claims shows this are produced and they don't show it, you don't care.
We get it Jon: You leftwing conspiracists want to get the CIA. Fine, in some cases you are correct about it. But stop using the assassination as an instrument to do so.
Far-Right Trump supporters are just as bad.
As I said somewhere earlier, one of Morley's main writers at JFK Facts (sic) is Chester "Chad" Nagle, Jr., a MAGAT if there ever was one.
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Morley is not just saying: "We need a fuller historical understanding of events surrounding the assassination. About what the CIA was doing. Or possibly doing. There are hints that perhaps something worse happened. Acts of omission or acts of commission. Oswald may have been the target of some counter intelligence operation. Let's find out and hold people accountable."
That's fine. No one objects to that. Or should. If that's all that he was saying then I would march with him under his banner. But he is saying more than that and it's that more that's the problem.
He explicitly says this: "The CIA killed JFK and framed Oswald. And covered it up. Angleton and Joannides and others committed treason. These documents will show it. That's why they are being held." Read Fred's posts or Tracy Parnell's. They quote him saying these things and more.
Then when the files are released and they don't show what he claims they would do, should we just shrug our shoulders and say "He means well"?
He's not just asking questions; he's giving answers too and making very serious claims. And when those answers are shown to have be wrong what should we do? Just give him a pass?
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You guys have nothing on Morley.
Some of you just dislike the fact that he’s treated as a credible JFK assassination researcher by the mainstream media and some members of Congress.
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So, I have gotten Morley wrong, then point to some evidence that supports his allegations of an Oswald operation. Point us to a Joannides' document that sustains anything that he claims.
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You guys have nothing on Morley.
Some of you just dislike the fact that he’s treated as a credible JFK assassination researcher by the mainstream media and some members of Congress.
I knew Morley was a piece of you-know-what about five years ago when, in response to my question at his so-called JFK Facts (sic) website, he said that he thinks "Oswald's case officer in Moscow," Yuri "The KGB Had Absolutely Nothing to Do With 'Abnormal' Oswald in the USSR" Nosenko was a true defector.
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From the Solving JFK Podcast on Twitter/X:
Top 10 revelations from todays WaPo story on George Joannides:
1) Domestic spying was illegal in 1963. CIA did it anyway.
2) CIA lied to Warren Commission and HSCA about the existence of Howard Gebler.
3) CIA lied to ARRB about the existence of Howard, saying in a memo that there were no records for Howard Gebler.
4) The Joannides/Howard Gebler file WAS NOT part of the JFK records collection, which means CIA never turned it over to ARRB in the first place.
5) CIA gave Joannides a medal for excellent career service and expressly noted his time overseeing DRE and as HSCA liaison. (No, it’s not the whole point of the medal. But, yes, it is noted.)
6) Big one: Joannides’ progress reports for 17 months when he was at JM Wave working with DRE are missing! This would have valuable operational info. To @FredLitwin’s point, we cannot say Oswald’s name is not in the file if we don’t have all the records!
7) Howard Gebler (Joannides) primarily dealt with Luis Fernandez Rocha, the head of DRE.
8) 35 CIA employees handled records related to Oswald from 1959-1963, including 6 who worked for Angleton and Helms.
9) Rocha sent a tape of Oswald’s radio debate with Carlos Bringuier to Howard Gebler!
10) After 11/22/63, Howard told DRE to call news media contacts to tell them about Oswald’s ties to FPCC.
https://x.com/SolvingJfk/status/1944797398150033505
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So, I have gotten Morley wrong, then point to some evidence that supports his allegations of an Oswald operation. Point us to a Joannides' document that sustains anything that he claims.
Dear Fred,
You have a typo of omission.
You left out the word "if".
Your Buddy,
-- Tom