JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate => Topic started by: Tom Graves on July 09, 2025, 01:44:17 AM
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Dan Rather's laughable account of what he think he saw in the Zapruder film:
"The films we saw were taken by an amateur photographer who had a particularly good vantage point, just past the building from which the fatal shot was fired. The films show President Kennedy's open black limousine making a left turn off Houston Street onto Elm Street on the fringe of downtown Dallas, the left turn made just below the window at which the assassin was waiting. About 35 yards past the very base of the building, just below the window, President Kennedy could be seen to put his right hand up to the side of his head to either brush back his hair or perhaps rub his eyebrow. President Kennedy was sitting on the same side of the car as the building from which the shot came. Mrs. Kennedy was by his side. In the jump seat in front of him, Mrs. Connally and Governor Connally -- Governor Connally on the same side of the car as the President -- and in the front seat, two Secret Service men. Just as the President put that right hand up to the side of his head, he … you could see him lurch forward, the first shot had hit him. Mrs. Kennedy was looking in another direction and apparently didn't see or sense that first shot or didn't hear it. But Governor Connally, in the seat in front, appeared to have heard it, or at least sensed that something was wrong. The governor's coat was open. He reached back in this fashion, exposing his white shirt front to the assassin’s window, he reached back as if to offer aid or ask the President something. At that moment, a shot clearly hit the Governor in the front, and he fell back in the seat. Mrs. Connally immediately threw herself over him in a protective position. In the next instant, with this time Mrs. Kennedy apparently looking on, a second shot -- the third total shot -- hit the President’s head. He … his head could be seen to move violently forward . . . and Mrs. Kennedy stood up immediately. The President leaned over her way; it appeared that he might have brushed her legs. Mrs. Kennedy then literally went on the top of the trunk of the Lincoln car and put practically her whole body on the trunk -- it appeared she might have been on her all fours, there -- reaching out for the Secret Service man, the lone Secret Service man who was riding on the bumper of the car, the back bumper on Mrs. Kennedy's side. The Secret Service man leaned forward and put his hands on Mrs. Kennedy's shoulder to push her back into the car – she was in some danger, it appeared, of rolling off or falling off. And we described this before -- there was some question about what we meant by Mrs. Kennedy’s being on the trunk of the car. Only she knows, but it appeared that she was trying desperately to get the Secret Service man's attention or perhaps to help pull him into the car. The car never stopped; it never paused. In the front seat, a secret serviceman was on the telephone. The car picked up speed and disappeared beneath an underpass."
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I find it interesting that Rather says, "the FILMS we saw.....". Mmmmmmm
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I find it interesting that Rather says, "the FILMS we saw....."
Didn't you know, Storing?
The evil, evil CIA had Sitzman film the assassination, too!!!
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I find it interesting that Rather says, "the FILMS we saw....."
Nice catch, Storing!
Rather's unbroken chain of mistakes started with the second word he spoke!
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Nice catch, Storing!
Rather's unbroken chain of mistakes started with the second word he spoke!
Rather may be telling the truth of viewing more than 1 film. Who knows? Maybe Rather watched multiple versions of the Zapruder Film?
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Rather may be telling the truth of viewing more than 1 film. Who knows? Maybe Rather watched multiple versions of the Zapruder Film?
Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes!
A Question for Storing: How far do you think the limo was from the base of the TSBD when JFK was hit by the first bullet that hit him?
"About 35 yards," as Rather says?
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Well, think of that distance this way. On a MLB diamond, the straight line distance from home plate to 2nd base is roughly 40 yards. Now place yourself on the corner of Houston/Elm on the same side of Elm St as the TSBD. Look straight down Elm St. If you are talking about the JFK BACK Shot, I would say 35-40 yards would be accurate.
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Place yourself on the corner of Houston/Elm on the same side of Elm St as the TSBD. Look straight down Elm Street. If you are talking about the JFK back shot, I would say 35-40 yards would be accurate.
He said from the base of the building, not from the tip of the "island" in front of the building.
Regardless, why do so many people say the second shot (the shot that wounded both JFK and JBC around Z-222) travelled about 240 feet (80 yards) from the Sniper's Nest window to JFK's back?
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He said from the base of the building, not from the tip of the "island" in front of the building.
Regardless, why do so many people say the second shot (the shot that wounded both JFK and JBC around Z-222) travelled about 240 feet (80 yards) from the Sniper's Nest window to JFK's back?
The difference is the elevation of the sixth floor window. Plus the sniper’s window is on the east end of the TSBD building. Rather’s description is strictly the distance at ground level and probably from the west end of the TSBD building.
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The difference is the elevation of the sixth floor window. Plus the sniper’s window is on the east end of the TSBD building. Rather’s description is strictly the distance at ground level and probably from the west end of the TSBD building.
Dan Rather was not in Dealey Plaza and his description was from Zapruders position.
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It was a joke how he described it. I'm not going to make a big deal about his use of the word "films." Did he see others, like the Nix film? Who knows? But it's not some sinister slip of the tongue with "films" like some of the crazies out there may make it out to be (e.g. "OMG! There's another film out there that we're still waiting to see showing Dick and Allen behind the wall giving Ruby directions to fire the shots! OMG!")
But I've always believed that, even at this point, with Oswald dead, the official message is starting at this point. Just like Ken O'Donnell saw some stuff, mere feet away from the shots, but was told by the FBI that he was wrong, that that isn't what he saw. And he quietly just didn't talk about it any more.
Good old Dan was young and ambitious, just like a lot of other TV "performers." I call them that because that's what they all are - performers. The newspaper people are the real reporters, though they, too, blew the assassination when they were fed the official line. Only the foreign press knew the truth and said as much.
Anyway, old Dan had just started in NY in '62 on a trial period, so he knew he had a good thing going and wasn't going to rock the boat. Just say what others are saying in the room - "...his head falls forward" etc. etc.
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He said from the base of the building, not from the tip of the "island" in front of the building.
Regardless, why do so many people say the second shot (the shot that wounded both JFK and JBC around Z-222) travelled about 240 feet (80 yards) from the Sniper's Nest window to JFK's back?
Again, put this alleged "80 yards" into a general perspective that you can relate to. Do you think it is almost a football field from the corner of Elm & Houston/The Island down to the Stemmons Sign? Not even close. Gary Mack always made it a point to stress how TINY Dealey Plaza was. He was right. Like I said, if there was nothing in the way, YOU could throw a baseball from the TSBD to the Zapruder Perch. And you wouldn't drop a nut doing it. Always put these alleged distances into a perspective/venue you can relate to. A Football Field or Baseball Diamond is a good venue for me to envision. When it comes to height, an NBA Rim is 10 feet above the floor.
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I find it interesting that Rather says, "the FILMS we saw.....". Mmmmmmm
What's especially interesting is that Rather was not the only one who saw the original film and who said it showed Kennedy being knocked forward, as I discuss in my article "Evidence of Alteration in the Zapruder Film."
Former FBI official and J. Edgar Hoover aide Cartha DeLoach recalled in his book Hoover's FBI that he watched the Zapruder film at FBI HQ the day after the shooting and that he saw Kennedy "pitching suddenly forward" in the film. Obviously, no such motion appears in the extant film.
Special Agent George Hickey, riding in the follow-up car, said the final shot made Kennedy "fall forward and to his left."
William Newman, who was standing on the Elm Street sidewalk right in front of the grassy knoll and who had one of the best views of the shooting, tried to tell New Orleans district attorney Jim Garrison that JFK was knocked forward as if struck by a baseball bat, but Garrison would not believe him because the event was not in the film.
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Rather was asked about his, let's be charitable, inaccurate description of what the film showed and said this (this is from Alexandra Zapruder's book on the film):
(https://www.drivehq.com/file/DFPublishFile.aspx/FileID12588175020/Key2h0ga63vfa4r/rather defense.JPG)
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What's especially interesting is that Rather was not the only one who saw the original film and who said it showed Kennedy being knocked forward, as I discuss in my article "Evidence of Alteration in the Zapruder Film."
Former FBI official and J. Edgar Hoover aide Cartha DeLoach recalled in his book Hoover's FBI that he watched the Zapruder film at FBI HQ the day after the shooting and that he saw Kennedy "pitching suddenly forward" in the film. Obviously, no such motion appears in the extant film.
Special Agent George Hickey, riding in the follow-up car, said the final shot made Kennedy "fall forward and to his left."
William Newman, who was standing on the Elm Street sidewalk right in front of the grassy knoll and who had one of the best views of the shooting, tried to tell New Orleans district attorney Jim Garrison that JFK was knocked forward as if struck by a baseball bat, but Garrison would not believe him because the event was not in the film.
Yeah, they swear by images and then disregard eyewitness testimony that conflicts with those same images. Personally, I am always astounded at the Missing Images that nobody asks about. Where are there any image(s) of SA Lem Johns jumping out of the LBJ SS Car and then running down Elm St. toward the JFK Limo? Where are there any image(s) of DPD Motorcycle Officer Hargis running across Elm St and then running up to "that wall", "little brick wall"? Those images are missing and nobody questions why we have this Gaping Black Hole. Interestingly, Officer Hargis's "little brick wall" is also where Gordon Arnold claimed he got kicked around by the "No Hat Cop". Images of Gordon Arnold are also nowhere to be found.