JFK Assassination Forum
The JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Dan O'meara on June 30, 2025, 04:53:38 PM
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This is Royell's most recent post regarding his Huge Gates theory.
It pretty much sums up his thinking on the matter:
"I believe that Assassin(s) Entry and Exit from the TSBD was done via the Huge Gates that were attached to the side of the TSBD along the Elm St. Extension. Officer Luke Mooney gave WC Testimony regarding his walking through these "Wide Open" gates, about 5-6 minutes after the Kill Shot. Mooney then entered the TSBD 1st floor in very close proximity to the stairwell and freight elevators. These gates were "wide open" on the Towner Film prior to the Kill Shot, and are still "Wide Open" after the Kill Shot, (Couch Film). (The gates opened Inward). After walking through the Huge Gates, Officer Mooney testified as to closing them. His closing of these gates would be at about 6-7 minutes after the Kill Shot. (The gates can be seen to be closed on the Martin Film as Amos Euins is filmed on the back of the Officer Harkin's 3 wheel motorcycle racing down the Elm St Ext). The assassin(s) could have easily walked through the "wide open" Huge Gates shortly before shots were fired. They then entered the TSBD 1st Floor and immediately walked up the close by stairwell to the 6th floor. They exited the TSBD in reverse manner and simply mixed into the stunned eyewitnesses outside of the TSBD."
Just to clear up a few inaccuracies.
1) Officer Luke Mooney gave WC Testimony regarding his walking through these "Wide Open" gates, about 5-6 minutes after the Kill Shot.
Mooney does not testify that he walked through the gates about 5 - 6 minutes after the "Kill Shot"
2) His closing of these gates would be at about 6-7 minutes after the Kill Shot.
There is photographic evidence that the gates were still wide open at 12:40 pm
3) The gates can be seen to be closed on the Martin Film as Amos Euins is filmed on the back of the Officer Harkin's 3 wheel motorcycle racing down the Elm St Ext
The gates are wide open in this footage.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/zvjwb2N3/Huge-Gates-Martin.png) (https://postimages.org/)
In the still from the Martin film above it looks like the gates are closed but they're not.
When the gates are wide open they rest against the interior wall. The shadows of the diamond pattern on the gates can be seen being cast against the wall.
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Officer Luke Mooney gave WC Testimony regarding he and 2 other Officers "closed" the "Wide Open" gates. The massive size of these gates required 3 people to "close" them. Mooney also testified that he did Not "lock" them. He said he did not know what might happen after he left those gates. So, they simply pushed the gates closed/ajar. The huge gates we see on the Martin Film are exactly as Mooney left them. Closed/ajar but Not Locked. Those gates are in this same closed/ajar position on "The Three Tramps" photo as the 3 Tramps are being escorted by DPD passed those gates. That photo was taken somewhere between 1:45 - 2:00 hrs after the kill shot. The Martin Film shows Euins on the back of Harkness 3 wheeled motorcycle with the Huge Gates being closed/ajar in the background. Harkness gave WC Testimony of making a 12:36 police radio transmission of having an eyewitness to shot(s) being fired from the TSBD. This eyewitness was Euins. And we see Euins on the 3 wheel motorcycle racing down the Elm St Ext with the huge gates already being closed/ajar. Officer Mooney + 2 other Officers had already walked through/closed the gates prior to Harkness and Euins being captured on the Martin Film. (Remember the Harkness 12:36 police radio transmission). The 12:36 Harkness police radio transmission give us a good timeline for Officer Mooney walking through and closing the Huge Gates.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/zvjwb2N3/Huge-Gates-Martin.png) (https://postimages.org/)
In the still from the Martin film above it looks like the gates are closed but they're not.
When the gates are wide open they rest against the interior wall. The shadows of the diamond pattern on the gates can be seen being cast against the wall.
The Huge "Gate" we see above is closed/ajar. If we could see the other gate, we would see the 2 gates are roughly 2 feet apart. The Three Tramps photo shows these gates to be in the same position we see above. Closed/Ajar. The Three Tramps photo was taken close to 2 hrs after the Kill Shot.
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This scenario seems to fall under the plausible believability scenario.
Someone could have entered.
That doesn’t mean they did.
No-one reported any strangers entering the building. Or Oswald moving about to let someone in.
Who would he have let in?
Some mafia or CIA hitman presumably.
Where’s the verification?
2+2=5
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The Huge "Gate" we see above is closed/ajar. If we could see the other gate, we would see the 2 gates are roughly 2 feet apart. The Three Tramps photo shows these gates to be in the same position we see above. Closed/Ajar. The Three Tramps photo was taken close to 2 hrs after the Kill Shot.
Wrong again.
In the Allen pic below we can see the space where the Huge Gates are is just a rectangular black void. There is no diamond pattern discernible meaning the gates are still "wide open".
The Hertz clock on the TSBD building reads 12:40pm.
The Huge Gates were still open at 12:40pm.
(https://i.postimg.cc/SNpYGDMM/Allen-Walthers-arrow.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w30Bq5Fq)
(https://i.postimg.cc/pdymdSgg/Allen-Walthers-arrowclose.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
As I've already told you, I dealt with this issue years ago.
All it means is that the building was not properly locked down for at least 10 minutes after the shooting.
As I've already stated, the door on the west of the building was never locked down so anyone could come and go as they pleased through that door.
Your made up nonsense about the Huge Gates all being part of a professional plan is a joke that only you don't seem to be getting.
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This scenario seems to fall under the plausible believability scenario.
Someone could have entered.
That doesn’t mean they did.
No-one reported any strangers entering the building. Or Oswald moving about to let someone in.
Who would he have let in?
Some mafia or CIA hitman presumably.
Where’s the verification?
2+2=5
Conspiracy believers will accept almost all sorts of possibilities except Oswald shooting from that window. That one is just too far fetched.
Fake films and phony autopsies? JFK's body hijacked and wounds altered? Sixty years of coverups? Witnesses killed by death teams? News media controlled by the CIA? Sure, go with it. But Oswald with a rifle? Not possible.
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This scenario seems to fall under the plausible believability scenario.
Someone could have entered.
That doesn’t mean they did.
No-one reported any strangers entering the building. Or Oswald moving about to let someone in.
Who would he have let in?
Some mafia or CIA hitman presumably.
Where’s the verification?
2+2=5
Thank you. I have been contacted by many respected JFK Assassination Researchers with the same opinion that you hold. "VERY Plausible". The problem here is that NO ONE has ever gotten into these Huge Gates being "wide open" before, during, and after the Kill Shot. With respect to your, "No-one reported any stranger entering the building", once you walked through those huge gates and then enter the TSBD 1st floor, you are almost on top of the stairwell and freight elevators. You are on the very fringe of the TSBD 1st floor. Even if someone was on the 1st Floor shortly before the assassination, their attention would Not be directed toward the Back corner of that 1st floor. Officer Mooney detailed the entrance being close to the stairwell and freight elevators in his WC Testimony. Mooney was called before the WC to verify his finding the 6th floor Sniper's Nest. But like many testimonies, there are Pearls buried within the testimony that apply to other areas of the JFK Assassination.
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I have been contacted by many respected JFK Assassination Researchers [...]
Storing,
There are no truly-respected-by-the-scientific-and-forensics-community JFK Assassination researchers who agree with any of your wacky JFKA theories.
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Researchers have always been curious as to the possible TSBD entrance and exit avenues for other possible assassins. These Huge Gates answer those questions. They make it very quick and easy to enter and exit the TSBD.
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Unlucky buddy.
Here's the same pic with the Stemmon's sign outlined.
We can see plenty of the space where the gates should be but there's not a diamond in sight.
This is photographic proof that the gates were "wide open" at 12:40pm.
(https://i.postimg.cc/BnSr2fZw/Allen-Walthers-arrowclose2.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
It's a bit like this Dillard pic that was taken long after the shooting was over, it almost looks like a different day, but in it we can see the big empty space where the diamond patterns would be if the gates were closed:
(https://i.postimg.cc/BbsCPbNx/Dillard-Gates-open.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Unlucky Royell.
Not even you can argue against solid photographic evidence.
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The Martin film shows the Huge Gates to be "ajar" at roughly 12:37. "The Three Tramps" photo shows the Huge Gates in this same "ajar" position at 1:45 - 2:00 PM. Officer Mooney testified that he closed the Huge Gates at roughly 12:36. This would be BEFORE the Martin Film showed the gates "ajar" at roughly 12:37. Also buried in the Mooney WC testimony is his experiencing the power outage inside the TSBD early on. This would impact the electric clock atop the TSBD. Not gonna get into whatever has been done to that photo. The truck windshield makes this obvious.
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Why would the gates need to be “wide open”? Would it not be easier just to leave them closed but UNLocked?
I’m not really sure why the west door of the TSBD would not be the easier escape rather than going thru this tunnel leading to the gate unless the freight elevators can all the way down to the basement floor beneath the 1st floor?
Did not BW Frazier say he went down to the “basement” after he went back into the TSBD?
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This is Royell's most recent post regarding his Huge Gates theory.
It pretty much sums up his thinking on the matter:
"I believe that Assassin(s) Entry and Exit from the TSBD was done via the Huge Gates that were attached to the side of the TSBD along the Elm St. Extension. Officer Luke Mooney gave WC Testimony regarding his walking through these "Wide Open" gates, about 5-6 minutes after the Kill Shot. Mooney then entered the TSBD 1st floor in very close proximity to the stairwell and freight elevators. These gates were "wide open" on the Towner Film prior to the Kill Shot, and are still "Wide Open" after the Kill Shot, (Couch Film). (The gates opened Inward). After walking through the Huge Gates, Officer Mooney testified as to closing them. His closing of these gates would be at about 6-7 minutes after the Kill Shot. (The gates can be seen to be closed on the Martin Film as Amos Euins is filmed on the back of the Officer Harkin's 3 wheel motorcycle racing down the Elm St Ext). The assassin(s) could have easily walked through the "wide open" Huge Gates shortly before shots were fired. They then entered the TSBD 1st Floor and immediately walked up the close by stairwell to the 6th floor. They exited the TSBD in reverse manner and simply mixed into the stunned eyewitnesses outside of the TSBD."
Just to clear up a few inaccuracies.
1) Officer Luke Mooney gave WC Testimony regarding his walking through these "Wide Open" gates, about 5-6 minutes after the Kill Shot.
Mooney does not testify that he walked through the gates about 5 - 6 minutes after the "Kill Shot"
2) His closing of these gates would be at about 6-7 minutes after the Kill Shot.
There is photographic evidence that the gates were still wide open at 12:40 pm
3) The gates can be seen to be closed on the Martin Film as Amos Euins is filmed on the back of the Officer Harkin's 3 wheel motorcycle racing down the Elm St Ext
The gates are wide open in this footage.
For his next trick, he’ll tell us about his Huge Ackman theory
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Why would the gates need to be “wide open”? Would it not be easier just to leave them closed but UNLocked?
I’m not really sure why the west door of the TSBD would not be the easier escape rather than going thru this tunnel leading to the gate unless the freight elevators can all the way down to the basement floor beneath the 1st floor?
Did not BW Frazier say he went down to the “basement” after he went back into the TSBD?
Using the door would make the assassin(s) visible to a lot of people. Their strange faces would attract the attention of people that work inside that building every day. Taking the stairwell down to the Huge Gates and out onto the Elm St Ext is quick and makes the assassin(s) almost invisible. Same goes for Entering the building and going up to the 6th floor in this same manner.
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For his next trick, he’ll tell us about his Huge Ackman theory
:D :D :D
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FWIW In Darnell the gates appear to be closed.
(https://i.imgur.com/raFAziX.gif)
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FWIW In Darnell the gates appear to be closed.
(https://i.imgur.com/raFAziX.gif)
Hi Robin,
The gate doors are open for Darnell and Couch. This graphic shows the approximate view of Darnell with the doors open and closed.
(https://i.imgur.com/SNigrY6.gif)
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FWIW In Darnell the gates appear to be closed.
(https://i.imgur.com/raFAziX.gif)
Robin - Thanks for posting this Darnell Snippet. The Huge Gates opened Inward. We are seeing from Darnell's position, an angled look at an inward pushed Gate. A "Reverse Negative" Couch Film provides an even better look at the inward pushed/Open Gate. Hope that your JFK Assassination Image Library is OK. I frequently use it here.
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Hi Robin,
The gate doors are open for Darnell and Couch. This graphic shows the approximate view of Darnell with the doors open and closed.
(https://i.imgur.com/SNigrY6.gif)
JAMES - Thanks for posting that visual aid. It drives the point home. I hope you post your work here more often. It is consistently Top Shelf.
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Hi Robin,
The gate doors are open for Darnell and Couch. This graphic shows the approximate view of Darnell with the doors open and closed.
(https://i.imgur.com/SNigrY6.gif)
Excellent animation as per usual, James.
It highlights why Royell can't understand that the gates are wide open in the Martin film.
Towards the end of the clip below we see Sawyer, cigarette in hand, leading Brennan to his car where he briefly questions him.
For a second we see the gates in the closed position and I believe we also see the "citizen" that Mooney grabbed to make sure no-one went in or out.
(https://i.postimg.cc/FsmDtNPh/Aluea-Sawyer-2.gif) (https://postimages.org/)
I've watched this clip many times and get the impression that the gates have just been closed and the citizen is securing them (possibly)
We know from the photographic record the gates were wide open at 12:40pm (Hertz clock time)
I believe this actual moment can be pinpointed with some degree of accuracy.
After his conversation with Brennan, Sawyer contacts dispatch:
(https://i.postimg.cc/Gmk1z7X2/sawyertranscript.png) (https://postimages.org/)
This transmission is timestamped 12:44pm
However, there is a slightly earlier transmission from Saywer.
At some point, just before a timestamp of 12:43pm, Sawyer contacts dispatch:
"We need some more men down at the Texas School Book Depository. We should have some on Main if we could get someone to pick up and bring them down here."
This transmission is made just before 12:43pm. We can assume Sawyer makes it as soon as he gets into his car and before he questions Brennan.
So we're looking at the closing of these gates around 12:41pm.
Exactly as you have marked in your animation.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/zvjwb2N3/Huge-Gates-Martin.png) (https://postimages.org/)
In the still from the Martin film above it looks like the gates are closed but they're not.
When the gates are wide open they rest against the interior wall. The shadows of the diamond pattern on the gates can be seen being cast against the wall.
I believe we are seeing the gate just as it was on the film footage of Euins & Brehm being loaded into Sawyers car, and "The Three Tramps" photo. The Gate is Closed/Ajar. If the gate in the background of this Martin Film still frame was "wide open", (inward), as Officer Mooney testified, there would Not be the Open Space to permit the placards to be casting the shadows Behind them. There is obviously Open Space between the Placards and the shadows they are casting. Also, look at the Gate middle crossbar relative to the casing the Gate is attached to. There is very little angle between that crossbar and the door casing. That crossbar is running almost directly into the casing.
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I believe we are seeing the gate just as it was on the film footage of Euins & Brehm being loaded into Sawyers car, and "The Three Tramps" photo. The Gate is Closed/Ajar. If the gate in the background of this Martin Film still frame was "wide open", (inward), as Officer Mooney testified, there would Not be the Open Space to permit the placards to be casting the shadows Behind them. There is obviously Open Space between the Placards and the shadows they are casting. Also, look at the Gate middle crossbar relative to the casing the Gate is attached to. There is very little angle between that crossbar and the door casing. That crossbar is running almost directly into the casing.
Royell, it appears to me from the animation that the eastern gate was rotated about 14 degrees from the wall at 12:40.
(https://i.imgur.com/WIBzN99.gif)
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JAMES - Thanks for posting that animated visual aid. Remember that the Huge Gates were attached to the side of the TSBD. I do not believe the placard shadows are being cast onto "the wall"/"the side" of the TSBD. This is throwing off the animation measurements being posted. Those placard shadows look like they are being cast onto something stacked there. No side of the TSBD resembles what we are seeing on the Martin Film. There are dock doors on that same side of the TSBD 1st floor. Dock doors possibly being built into what we are seeing on the Martin Film? I don't think so.
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JAMES - Thanks for posting that animated visual aid. Remember that the Huge Gates were attached to the side of the TSBD. I do not believe the placard shadows are being cast onto "the wall"/"the side" of the TSBD. This is throwing off the animation measurements being posted. Those placard shadows look like they are being cast onto something stacked there. No side of the TSBD resembles what we are seeing on the Martin Film. There are dock doors on that same side of the TSBD 1st floor. Dock doors possibly being built into what we are seeing on the Martin Film? I don't think so.
Storing,
What are you trying to say?
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I am saying we are Not seeing a common wall between the TSBD and the Huge Gates. We are probably looking at something that is stacked there. Maybe something staged for for loading onto a truck? The degree numbers are based on that being the common wall. It is not.
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JAMES - Thanks for posting that animated visual aid. Remember that the Huge Gates were attached to the side of the TSBD. I do not believe the placard shadows are being cast onto "the wall"/"the side" of the TSBD. This is throwing off the animation measurements being posted. Those placard shadows look like they are being cast onto something stacked there. No side of the TSBD resembles what we are seeing on the Martin Film. There are dock doors on that same side of the TSBD 1st floor. Dock doors possibly being built into what we are seeing on the Martin Film? I don't think so.
Royell, to model your theory of a space between the east gate at its fully open position I modeled the effect of the space by incrementally moving the east gate westward, thus generating a variable space between the gate and the “wall”. At each increment I animated the gates rotation until it gave a shadow pattern similar to that of Martin_Euins fillm. I did this procedure for simulated space increments up to 12”.
The data shows that the larger the space the smaller amount of gate rotation is required to compare with Martin_Euins shadow patterns. Thus, the maximum rotation falls at about 14 degrees.
(https://i.imgur.com/8vrJJ9p.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/5Rh4r3a.gif)
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I understand the method you used. It is my position that we are Not seeing the TSBD "Exterior Wall" on the Martin Film. The placard shadows on the Martin Film are falling onto something that is "stacked" between the TSBD Exterior Wall and the East Gate. This stacked material decreases the "open space" your model is using to match-up the shadows with the Martin Film. The Martin Film "placard shadows" are being cast onto something that does Not resemble any of the other exterior sides of the TSBD.
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Excellent animation as per usual, James.
It highlights why Royell can't understand that the gates are wide open in the Martin film.
Towards the end of the clip below we see Sawyer, cigarette in hand, leading Brennan to his car where he briefly questions him.
For a second we see the gates in the closed position and I believe we also see the "citizen" that Mooney grabbed to make sure no-one went in or out.
(https://i.postimg.cc/FsmDtNPh/Aluea-Sawyer-2.gif) (https://postimages.org/)
I've watched this clip many times and get the impression that the gates have just been closed and the citizen is securing them (possibly)
We know from the photographic record the gates were wide open at 12:40pm (Hertz clock time)
I believe this actual moment can be pinpointed with some degree of accuracy.
After his conversation with Brennan, Sawyer contacts dispatch:
(https://i.postimg.cc/Gmk1z7X2/sawyertranscript.png) (https://postimages.org/)
This transmission is timestamped 12:44pm
However, there is a slightly earlier transmission from Saywer.
At some point, just before a timestamp of 12:43pm, Sawyer contacts dispatch:
"We need some more men down at the Texas School Book Depository. We should have some on Main if we could get someone to pick up and bring them down here."
This transmission is made just before 12:43pm. We can assume Sawyer makes it as soon as he gets into his car and before he questions Brennan.
So we're looking at the closing of these gates around 12:41pm.
Exactly as you have marked in your animation.
Here is the scene following Jimmy Darnell’s close and personal filming of the three young women Stella Jacob, Gloria Holt and Sharon Simmons as they left the pergola patio. The scene finds him south of the depository doorway. We see Howard Brennan in the NE corner of the landing as he turns and spits (his chew?) into the space between the steps and white door column block and then returns to his interviewer. A police officer, possibly Inspector Sawyer, passes Brennan and interviewer and descends the steps moving in the westerly direction of Sawyer’s parked car. Near the west wall stands an approximate 5’1” person I’ve code-named “Choir Boy”. There is a suited man with hat standing at the doorway apparently screening people entering or leaving the doorway. I’ve never known his name. Some frames of this clip show a brief refection of sunlight on the top riser just behind this man. This brief flash of sunshine is suitable for shadow/time analysis. Lower steps also have possible use for timing, but are likely composite shadows from the door column and Choir Boy. The second animation was derived by modeling the doorway and 50% overlay with a Darnell frame. The sun position was incremented from 12:30-12:50. It appears to me that the shadow time of this Darnell scene is 12:43, with an estimated error of plus/minus 1 minute.
Note that the image hosting site imgur.com recently stopped (seemingly) providing BBC code for image display in this forum. Until I find a replacement I will add images to Google Drive.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1WlZ2SxYEfrRCOoBegqpxce5vOhXu5tLE?usp=sharing
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I understand the method you used. It is my position that we are Not seeing the TSBD "Exterior Wall" on the Martin Film. The placard shadows on the Martin Film are falling onto something that is "stacked" between the TSBD Exterior Wall and the East Gate. This stacked material decreases the "open space" your model is using to match-up the shadows with the Martin Film. The Martin Film "placard shadows" are being cast onto something that does Not resemble any of the other exterior sides of the TSBD.
Dissecting the Shadows
I began to try to model the shadows in the Euins clip two weeks ago, but had difficulty matching two prominent shadows in particular. These shadows appear below the center and above the two lower placards. In my animation the Martin inset has these two shadows circled in yellow.
The shadow on the right is due to the corner pilaster falling on the background. Note that the rectangular shape of the shadow tapers to point. This does not happen on a vertical surface, bricks or boxes. The east gate is anchored to the SW pilaster and is therefore only about six to eight inches from the TSBD’s west wall. There remains holes in this pilaster where the gate hardware was fixed.
The second shadow on the left side is due to the center placard and would look similar to the other placard shadows falling on the flat wall. However, this shadow is shortened to about half its expected size. This is due to falling on a sloped surface as in the lower (Google Earth) inset photo taken of that very pilaster in the Martin frame.
My animation has a simulated sloped top and provides the anomalous shadow patterns. My slope is a flat incline while the authentic slope appears to have curvature. I don’t think that could change my conclusions.
The background behind the east gate is actually the TSBD west wall. The Martin frames are soft making the brickwork essentially blended in with the mortar. Also note that nether the chain-link fence or TSBD south face breeze blocks cutouts are resolved.
It is not just Martin’s Euins scene where bricks and mortar are unresolved and appear blended as one continuous surface. Martin and Hughes both filmed with their 8mm film cameras and recorded similar scenes of brickwork of the TSBD and DalTex buildings that do not have resolved brick/mortar. I could not find even one frame from Martin or Hughes frames showing resolved brick and mortar.
https://i.imgur.com/a/cZ837E2.gif
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Dissecting the Shadows
I began to try to model the shadows in the Euins clip two weeks ago, but had difficulty matching two prominent shadows in particular. These shadows appear below the center and above the two lower placards. In my animation the Martin inset has these two shadows circled in yellow.
The shadow on the right is due to the corner pilaster falling on the background. Note that the rectangular shape of the shadow tapers to point. This does not happen on a vertical surface, bricks or boxes. The east gate is anchored to the SW pilaster and is therefore only about six to eight inches from the TSBD’s west wall. There remains holes in this pilaster where the gate hardware was fixed.
The second shadow on the left side is due to the center placard and would look similar to the other placard shadows falling on the flat wall. However, this shadow is shortened to about half its expected size. This is due to falling on a sloped surface as in the lower (Google Earth) inset photo taken of that very pilaster in the Martin frame.
My animation has a simulated sloped top and provides the anomalous shadow patterns. My slope is a flat incline while the authentic slope appears to have curvature. I don’t think that could change my conclusions.
The background behind the east gate is actually the TSBD west wall. The Martin frames are soft making the brickwork essentially blended in with the mortar. Also note that nether the chain-link fence or TSBD south face breeze blocks cutouts are resolved.
It is not just Martin’s Euins scene where bricks and mortar are unresolved and appear blended as one continuous surface. Martin and Hughes both filmed with their 8mm film cameras and recorded similar scenes of brickwork of the TSBD and DalTex buildings that do not have resolved brick/mortar. I could not find even one frame from Martin or Hughes frames showing resolved brick and mortar.
https://i.imgur.com/a/cZ837E2.gif
Hi James, I was just wondering, if you assume the angle of the gate is zero (fully opened - as it appears to be in other pics) can you work out the exact time the Martin clip of Euins on the bike was taken as this might nail down the time Sawyer arrived at the TSBD building.
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Hi James, I was just wondering, if you assume the angle of the gate is zero (fully opened - as it appears to be in other pics) can you work out the exact time the Martin clip of Euins on the bike was taken as this might nail down the time Sawyer arrived at the TSBD building.
Dan,
Using an angle of 0 degrees gives a shadow pattern for about 12:28. That is not a typo. At 12:40 the angle is 3-4 degrees to match the shadow pattern. So, I can't determine the time from of Martin_Euins clip. I wish I could.
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Dissecting the Shadows
I began to try to model the shadows in the Euins clip two weeks ago, but had difficulty matching two prominent shadows in particular. These shadows appear below the center and above the two lower placards. In my animation the Martin inset has these two shadows circled in yellow.
The shadow on the right is due to the corner pilaster falling on the background. Note that the rectangular shape of the shadow tapers to point. This does not happen on a vertical surface, bricks or boxes. The east gate is anchored to the SW pilaster and is therefore only about six to eight inches from the TSBD’s west wall. There remains holes in this pilaster where the gate hardware was fixed.
The second shadow on the left side is due to the center placard and would look similar to the other placard shadows falling on the flat wall. However, this shadow is shortened to about half its expected size. This is due to falling on a sloped surface as in the lower (Google Earth) inset photo taken of that very pilaster in the Martin frame.
My animation has a simulated sloped top and provides the anomalous shadow patterns. My slope is a flat incline while the authentic slope appears to have curvature. I don’t think that could change my conclusions.
The background behind the east gate is actually the TSBD west wall. The Martin frames are soft making the brickwork essentially blended in with the mortar. Also note that nether the chain-link fence or TSBD south face breeze blocks cutouts are resolved.
It is not just Martin’s Euins scene where bricks and mortar are unresolved and appear blended as one continuous surface. Martin and Hughes both filmed with their 8mm film cameras and recorded similar scenes of brickwork of the TSBD and DalTex buildings that do not have resolved brick/mortar. I could not find even one frame from Martin or Hughes frames showing resolved brick and mortar.
https://i.imgur.com/a/cZ837E2.gif
The "sloping" is because you are Not seeing the side of the TSBD. There is something staged/stacked there for loading into a truck. As Luke Mooney said in his WC Testimony, that is a Dock behind the Huge Gates with a grocery warehouse. The staging of material for loading is standard operating procedure on any dock. This makes those Huge Gates being "wide open" all the more un-explainable. You have an unattended grocery warehouse and staged material just ripe for the pickings.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/zvjwb2N3/Huge-Gates-Martin.png) (https://postimages.org/)
In the still from the Martin film above it looks like the gates are closed but they're not.
When the gates are wide open they rest against the interior wall. The shadows of the diamond pattern on the gates can be seen being cast against the wall.
For starters, the image above shows the Huge Gates to be CLOSED. Proven by the following.
On You Tube, there is a presentation titled - "Amos Euins" by - NoTrueFlags Here. From 7:21 - 7:30 it shows Amos Euins being walked down the Elm St Extension sidewalk and loaded into Inspector Sawyer's parked car in front of the TSBD. In the background, this film also shows the Huge Gates to be CLOSED. The Image above shows Officer Harkness taking Euins to be loaded into Inspector Sawyer's car. Officer Harkness made a 12:36 Police Radio Call that he was bringing Euins to the TSBD. This means these images of Euins being loaded into Inspector Sawyer's car and the CLOSED Huge Gates in the background, would be taking place between 12:37 - 12:38. Those Huge Gates were therefore closed by Officer Luke Mooney and the 2 other Officers at roughly 12:36 - 12:37. After closing the Huge Gates, Mooney and the 2 Officers then went inside the TSBD. This puts the 3 DPD Officers inside the TSBD and then on the stairwell and freight elevator at 12:38 - 12:39. This also means the TSBD POWER OUTAGE that halted the freight elevator happened at roughly 12:38 - 12:39. These are important time stamps.
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Unlucky buddy.
Here's the same pic with the Stemmon's sign outlined.
We can see plenty of the space where the gates should be but there's not a diamond in sight.
This is photographic proof that the gates were "wide open" at 12:40pm.
(https://i.postimg.cc/BnSr2fZw/Allen-Walthers-arrowclose2.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
It's a bit like this Dillard pic that was taken long after the shooting was over, it almost looks like a different day, but in it we can see the big empty space where the diamond patterns would be if the gates were closed:
(https://i.postimg.cc/BbsCPbNx/Dillard-Gates-open.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Unlucky Royell.
Not even you can argue against solid photographic evidence.
The CBS Film Footage of Amos Euins being walked down the Elm St Ext sidewalk, and then loaded into Inspector Sawyer's car in front of the TSBD, shows the Huge Gates have been CLOSED at this point in time. DPD Officer Harkness made a 12:36 police radio call that he was in route to the TSBD with Euins. How long do you believe it took Officer Harkness to go from the railroad yard to the front of the TSBD and then begin placing Euins inside Sawyer's car? 2 minutes Tops? This means the Huge Gates were closed by 12:38 at the latest.
With these HUGE GATES, being shown to be closed in the CBS film footage, also means that Officer Luke Mooney was already inside the TSBD at this same point in time. Mooney gave WC Testimony that he and 2 other DPD Officers closed those previously "wide open" Huge Gates. After closing the Huge Gates, Mooney testified that the 3 of them entered the TSBD. With their entering the TSBD from this side of the building, placed them within feet of the Stairwell and the Freight Elevators. The other 2 Officers went Up the stairwell. Mooney used the freight elevator to escort 2 women up to their office on 2nd floor. It was during this trip up to the 2nd floor that Mooney testified that the TSBD Power went out. You are using the clock atop the TSBD to time stamp your "solid photographic evidence". Perhaps this documented TSBD "power outage", resulted in the clock atop the TSBD posting an inaccurate time of day? Relying on this very same clock to time stamp your "solid photographic evidence", would then render your time stamping of this evidence to be wrong.
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This is Royell's most recent post regarding his Huge Gates theory.
It pretty much sums up his thinking on the matter:
"I believe that Assassin(s) Entry and Exit from the TSBD was done via the Huge Gates that were attached to the side of the TSBD along the Elm St. Extension. Officer Luke Mooney gave WC Testimony regarding his walking through these "Wide Open" gates, about 5-6 minutes after the Kill Shot. Mooney then entered the TSBD 1st floor in very close proximity to the stairwell and freight elevators. These gates were "wide open" on the Towner Film prior to the Kill Shot, and are still "Wide Open" after the Kill Shot, (Couch Film). (The gates opened Inward). After walking through the Huge Gates, Officer Mooney testified as to closing them. His closing of these gates would be at about 6-7 minutes after the Kill Shot. (The gates can be seen to be closed on the Martin Film as Amos Euins is filmed on the back of the Officer Harkin's 3 wheel motorcycle racing down the Elm St Ext). The assassin(s) could have easily walked through the "wide open" Huge Gates shortly before shots were fired. They then entered the TSBD 1st Floor and immediately walked up the close by stairwell to the 6th floor. They exited the TSBD in reverse manner and simply mixed into the stunned eyewitnesses outside of the TSBD."
Just to clear up a few inaccuracies.
1) Officer Luke Mooney gave WC Testimony regarding his walking through these "Wide Open" gates, about 5-6 minutes after the Kill Shot.
Mooney does not testify that he walked through the gates about 5 - 6 minutes after the "Kill Shot"
2) His closing of these gates would be at about 6-7 minutes after the Kill Shot.
There is photographic evidence that the gates were still wide open at 12:40 pm
3) The gates can be seen to be closed on the Martin Film as Amos Euins is filmed on the back of the Officer Harkin's 3 wheel motorcycle racing down the Elm St Ext
The gates are wide open in this footage.
On You Tube, there is a video titled "Amos Euins?" by "NoTrueFlags Here". From 7:21- 7:30 there is a CBS film snippet showing Amos Euins being loaded inside Inspector Sawyer's car parked at the curb in front of the TSBD. This film snippet also shows the Huge Gates. The Huge Gates are CLOSED. At 12:36, DPD Officer Harkness sent a documented police radio transmission. Officer Harkness said, "Witness says shots came from the 5th floor, Texas School Book Depository store at Houston and Elm. I have him with me now and we are sealing off the building". This "witness" was Amos Euins and Harkness immediately took Euins to the TSBD and loaded him into Inspector Sawyer's car as shown on the CBS Film Snippet. This 12:36 radio transmission means we are seeing Euins being loaded into Inspector Sawyer's car at 12:37 -12:38. This also means we are seeing the Huge Gates being ALREADY CLOSED at 12:37 -12:38. What we are seeing on this CBS film snippet is only seconds after Officer Harkness and Euins sped by those CLOSED Huge Gates on the 3 wheel police motorcycle.
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I have spotted a BLACK OBJECT sitting ATOP the (R) HUGE GATE. It is directly above the (R) Huge Gate and sits tightly between the point where the Texas School Book Depository ends and the (R) Huge Gate begins. It looks to be about the size of a home stereo speaker and is entirely Black. I have asked several other long term JFK Assassination researchers as to the identity/purpose of this object. Nobody positively knows what it is or what it is doing there. It's been speculated that this might be a "sign" of some kind, but nobody knows what that alleged sign might be for. You could Not see this possible sign if you were traveling either direction on the Elm St Extension. It would Not be within your field of vision. Plus, there appears to be absolutely No Printing or differing color anywhere on it. Based on the images we see of it, it is Completely Black. For the time being, I am referring to this object as "The Black Box".
Being that the Black Box is situated down the Elm St Extension, there are few images showing it, and even these images only show portions of it. I believe the Best view of this object can be seen on this Forum's, "PHOTO RESEARCH GALLERY". It is on "KIMBROUGH PHOTO #7". If anyone knows the possible purpose of this "Black Box", please let me know. Whatever that Black Box is, it looks entirely out of place.
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Your Black Object is most certainly not "entirely Black." Zoom in on it and you can pretty clearly see a face, although it's possible this is pareidolia : https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=1813359032244661&set=gm.1221491097890220.
You can also see it clearly here: https://www.jfk.org/collections-archive/photograph-of-the-exterior-of-the-texas-school-book-depository-3/. Those wacky conspirators left it up days after the JFKA was over.
The reality is, (1) you are addicted to mentally masturbating over your nonsense; (2) you can't stand to allow one of your nonsensical threads to die a well-deserved death, so you keep bringing them to the front page with yet more nonsense; and (3) the mysterious "long term JFK Assassination researchers" you keep mentioning are completely imaginary. Isn't that about right?
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Your Black Object is most certainly not "entirely Black." Zoom in on it and you can pretty clearly see a face, although it's possible this is pareidolia : https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=1813359032244661&set=gm.1221491097890220.
You can also see it clearly here: https://www.jfk.org/collections-archive/photograph-of-the-exterior-of-the-texas-school-book-depository-3/. Those wacky conspirators left it up days after the JFKA was over.
The reality is, (1) you are addicted to mentally masturbating over your nonsense; (2) you can't stand to allow one of your nonsensical threads to die a well-deserved death, so you keep bringing them to the front page with yet more nonsense; and (3) the mysterious "long term JFK Assassination researchers" you keep mentioning are completely imaginary. Isn't that about right?
100% spot on! Royell is like the newfound Ralph Cinque of JFK photo analysis - and no, that's not a good thing!
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On top of which, I now see that the second photo I linked, taken days after the JFKA, clearly shows IT ISN'T BLACK AT ALL and is some sort of electrical box that the overhead line is going into. The face that I thought I saw in the other photo was indeed pareidolia. How come I could find the definitive image in 60 seconds on Google Images while Researcher Royell and his Team of Long Time JFKA Researchers couldn't? Is it because Researcher Royell is really just Jake Maxwell Jr. (a slur of Jake, who is at least a bit tongue-in-cheek) and his supposed Team is as imaginary as the Cottingley Fairies?
I'd have more patience if I had the slightest indication that Royell knew this was all crazy and was just having fun.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRnm4dWZJt-iwuf9mp3mb1TvASKTZfIV4megpx0SHXA_A&s)
For those who don't know, the Cottingley Fairies were paper cutouts by two little girls who completely fooled Arthur Conan Doyle. As you can see, the hoax was quite well done for its era. I don't think Conan Doyle ever quite believed it was a hoax.
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If The gates were open the whole time as it appears to be the case , then that was pretty lax security. Was it just coincidence or was it on purpose?
The 6th floor TSBD SE window shooter could have taken the west elevator all the way to the 2nd floor by 50 secs post shots. Then he exits out the west side window there by the 2nd floor staircase. He crosses over a small part of the garage roof and lets himself down the west side of the building. That’s about the fastest way to get out of the TSBD without having to go all the way down to the 1st floor. He’s out on the west side of TSBD ground by 60 secs post shots.
It’s not likely the assassin had taken either freight elevator to the 1st floor because he likely would have been seen by Adams and Stiles there on the 1st floor at about that 60 secs post shots time.
So it’s a curious thing these gates being wide open the whole time but I’m not sure what Royells escape scenario is that’s faster than an exit via 2nd floor west window by 50 secs post shots.
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If The gates were open the whole time as it appears to be the case , then that was pretty lax security. Was it just coincidence or was it on purpose?
The 6th floor TSBD SE window shooter could have taken the west elevator all the way to the 2nd floor by 50 secs post shots. Then he exits out the west side window there by the 2nd floor staircase. He crosses over a small part of the garage roof and lets himself down the west side of the building. That’s about the fastest way to get out of the TSBD without having to go all the way down to the 1st floor. He’s out on the west side of TSBD ground by 60 secs post shots.
It’s not likely the assassin had taken either freight elevator to the 1st floor because he likely would have been seen by Adams and Stiles there on the 1st floor at about that 60 secs post shots time.
So it’s a curious thing these gates being wide open the whole time but I’m not sure what Royells escape scenario is that’s faster than an exit via 2nd floor west window by 50 secs post shots.
Please, let's not encourage the nonsense.
What do you mean by the "whole time"? Surely you don't mean it was "lax security" not to have them closed prior to the JFKA, as though "the possibility an assassin might be escaping from the TSBD" should have been anticipated? There was little or no security along the enture motorcade route or elsewhere in Dealey Plaza, so some special focus on these gates would make no sense.
Presumably you mean "the whole time after the assassination." Well, the whole scene was chaos. Mooney arguably could have acted more quickly, but I'm impressed he acted as quickly as he did. This is all-too-typical CT much ado about nothing, it seems to me. To attach any significance tp the Huge Gates at all, one must buy into One Glove Haygood Imposters and Impounded Getaway Cars and Fake Bart Kamp Images and Conspirators Everyone Else Thinks Are Shelley and Lovelady and Weird Black Mystery Objects That Are In Fact Non-Black Electrical Boxes and whatnot. In short, one must buy into Complete Lunacy.
Enough from me. Royell is just an attention-seeker, and even ridicule makes him feel important. Pathetic.
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Marylin Sitzman
(a 10-25-92 interview with Hal Verb, as recounted by Verb in the 9-30-94 JFK Resource Group Newsletter) "...I recalled an interview I had with Marilyn Sitzman, an eyewitness to the JFK assassination who was standing with Abraham Zapruder (in fact, holding him so that he wouldn't fall as he was filming the motorcade). She and I were standing right near the pedestal which both she and Zapruder stood upon. It was the last day of the Dallas "ASK" conference. Sitzman told me she knew a lot about guns and weapons having grown up with them. She told me the shot that killed the President came from behind and that the gunman must've used a silencer (her emphasis). She said that if it were not a silencer the shot would have knocked down both of them because of where they were so precariously standing. She then told me of the great "reverberation" that was felt. I showed her a map of the Dealey Plaza area (she signed it) and she pointed to the area when she thought the shot was fired from. Curiously enough, it was not from the alleged and traditionally targeted picket fence area but from a location in the direction of the north pergola. This would be to the left of and behind where Charles Hester was standing."
From Pat Speer's website.
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I have spotted a BLACK OBJECT sitting ATOP the (R) HUGE GATE. It is directly above the (R) Huge Gate and sits tightly between the point where the Texas School Book Depository ends and the (R) Huge Gate begins. It looks to be about the size of a home stereo speaker and is entirely Black. I have asked several other long term JFK Assassination researchers as to the identity/purpose of this object. Nobody positively knows what it is or what it is doing there. It's been speculated that this might be a "sign" of some kind, but nobody knows what that alleged sign might be for. You could Not see this possible sign if you were traveling either direction on the Elm St Extension. It would Not be within your field of vision. Plus, there appears to be absolutely No Printing or differing color anywhere on it. Based on the images we see of it, it is Completely Black. For the time being, I am referring to this object as "The Black Box".
Being that the Black Box is situated down the Elm St Extension, there are few images showing it, and even these images only show portions of it. I believe the Best view of this object can be seen on this Forum's, "PHOTO RESEARCH GALLERY". It is on "KIMBROUGH PHOTO #7". If anyone knows the possible purpose of this "Black Box", please let me know. Whatever that Black Box is, it looks entirely out of place.
Really Royell? We already had this conversation over a year ago and presented as visual proof the following infographic!, there is no black box, the object is essentially flat as confirmed by the front on shot and the resulting shadow, and the sign is clearly supported by a pair of brackets. The sign has been specifically constructed to fit the contours of the building.
(https://i.postimg.cc/qM0XCQ31/sign-on-TSBD-near-huge-gates.jpg)
On the left side of the building, behind the huge gates there is an additional two overhead doors which would have been used for loading and unloading.
(https://i.postimg.cc/mkwPfYVF/TSBD-Floor-Plan-First-Floor.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/BndHCCz5/tsbd-1963-b.jpg)
Now one aspect I find a little odd is that the "sign" was mounted very high, so who was it for? The high gates indicate that the height was to accommodate taller trucks like a semi, but as seen in the above aerial shot, the amount of manoeuvring space within is quite limited? Also of interest is the front of the sign is facing down the street which means it wouldn't be seen by delivery trucks coming directly off Houston?
(https://i.postimg.cc/3JshB43Z/sign-on-TSBD-near-huge-gates-b.jpg)
The TSBD around 1910 shows that the end building beyond the depository was already built but what isn't clear is the huge gates and the structure directly behind which is the area seen in the aerial shot above with the black roof?
(https://i.postimg.cc/d1FW5Ff8/rock-island-plow-dmn-c1910-TSBD.webp)
An interesting titbit I just noticed is the front lattice on the bottom floor windows were added after 1910 and before 1963, and removed sometime thereafter?
(https://i.postimg.cc/W1BS4Z0Y/Front-door-TSBD.jpg)
JohnM
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Really Royell? We already had this conversation over a year ago and presented as visual proof the following infographic!, there is no black box, the object is essentially flat as confirmed by the front on shot and the resulting shadow, and the sign is clearly supported by a pair of brackets. The sign has been specifically constructed to fit the contours of the building.
(https://i.postimg.cc/qM0XCQ31/sign-on-TSBD-near-huge-gates.jpg)
On the left side of the building, behind the huge gates there is an additional two overhead doors which would have been used for loading and unloading.
(https://i.postimg.cc/mkwPfYVF/TSBD-Floor-Plan-First-Floor.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/BndHCCz5/tsbd-1963-b.jpg)
Now one aspect I find a little odd is that the "sign" was mounted very high, so who was it for? The high gates indicate that the height was to accommodate taller trucks like a semi, but as seen in the above aerial shot, the amount of manoeuvring space within is quite limited? Also of interest is the front of the sign is facing down the street which means it wouldn't be seen by delivery trucks coming directly off Houston?
(https://i.postimg.cc/3JshB43Z/sign-on-TSBD-near-huge-gates-b.jpg)
The TSBD around 1910 shows that the end building beyond the depository was already built but what isn't clear is the huge gates and the structure directly behind which is the area seen in the aerial shot above with the black roof?
(https://i.postimg.cc/d1FW5Ff8/rock-island-plow-dmn-c1910-TSBD.webp)
An interesting titbit I just noticed is the front lattice on the bottom floor windows were added after 1910 and before 1963, and removed sometime thereafter?
(https://i.postimg.cc/W1BS4Z0Y/Front-door-TSBD.jpg)
JohnM
JOHN - Thanks for stepping forward and confirming our having previously conferred on what I call the Black Box. I routinely get called a liar and such with respect to my asking for the respected opinion of others, but even in the face of this, you can always count on my being the soul of discretion.
As I said when we talked about this previously, in my opinion the position of this alleged "sign" is automatically a DQ. Nobody can see it, and there is nothing around there warranting a sign.
I recently ran across a Sixth Floor presentation detailing the massive construction "work" that needed to be done to the TSBD, along with the rebuilding of the Huge Gates, Grocery Warehouse, and loading dock for Oliver Stone's "JFK" (1991) movie. The reconstructed area above the (R) Huge Gate did Not include this "Black Box". And per this Sixth Floor presentation, Oliver Stone was extremely detail oriented with respect to this massive reconstruction work.
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Not that I care, but in the best photos, including the one from the Sixth Floor Museum, https://www.jfk.org/collections-archive/photograph-of-the-exterior-of-the-texas-school-book-depository-3/, it definitely doesn't look like a flat sign. It looks like a "box." That would seemingly be a very odd place for a sign, but not for an electrical box or an alien craft from another dimension of some sort.
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Not that I care, but in the best photos, including the one from the Sixth Floor Museum, https://www.jfk.org/collections-archive/photograph-of-the-exterior-of-the-texas-school-book-depository-3/, it definitely doesn't look like a flat sign. It looks like a "box." That would seemingly be a very odd place for a sign, but not for an electrical box or an alien craft from another dimension of some sort.
The first photo I posted was a crop from a higher definition of the one you linked to! So....
Secondly, why would an electrical box be mounted at a right angle instead of flush against the wall? and on the second floor??
Thirdly, why would the lower section be cut out to fit over the facia?
Fourthly, why is the "front on" photo showing an electrical box with no depth?
And finally, in the following higher res copy of the image, as opposed to the photo in your link, the cable you claim leads to the electrical box, passes by right in front and is not seen in any other hi-res photo.
(https://i.ibb.co/y7XwT7c/texas-school-book-depository-1963-4.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/pBdpT8LW/texas-school-book-depository-1963-2.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/VYJrcY6q/metapth184963-xl-1989-100-0039-0012-1.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/yFKMm0Z1/metapth184962-xl-1989-100-0039-0011.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/jPRNYd8P/texas-school-book-depository-1963-4.jpg)
BTW, establishing a box from a virtually shadowless object in a two dimensional photo is not a good technique, just saying.
JohnM
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I thought maybe it had something to do with the street lights, but it's clear from the photos that the fascia extends on the other side of it and that it is a Flat Something. What I thought was the front of a box is in fact the extension of the fascia. I'm now inclined to agree with Royell that it's a flat screen LCD monitor by which a conspirator stationed inside the TSBD could monitor and coordinate the activities of the Bogus One Glove Haygood, the Fake Lovelady and Shelley, the Getaway Car, and the other participants and accoutrements of the conspiracy. If that works for everyone, let's just leave it there.
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The first photo I posted was a crop from a higher definition of the one you linked to! So....
Secondly, why would an electrical box be mounted at a right angle instead of flush against the wall? and on the second floor??
Thirdly, why would the lower section be cut out to fit over the facia?
Fourthly, why is the "front on" photo showing an electrical box with no depth?
And finally, in the following higher res copy of the image, as opposed to the photo in your link, the cable you claim leads to the electrical box, passes by right in front and is not seen in any other hi-res photo.
(https://i.ibb.co/y7XwT7c/texas-school-book-depository-1963-4.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/pBdpT8LW/texas-school-book-depository-1963-2.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/VYJrcY6q/metapth184963-xl-1989-100-0039-0012-1.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/yFKMm0Z1/metapth184962-xl-1989-100-0039-0011.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/jPRNYd8P/texas-school-book-depository-1963-4.jpg)
BTW, establishing a box from a virtually shadowless object in a two dimensional photo is not a good technique, just saying.
JohnM
JOHN - Thanks for posting these photos. Whatever the original purpose of this "object" might have been, it did obstruct seeing the area atop the Huge Gates when turning from Houston St onto Elm St. This would include the "scanning" vision of the SS and DPD law enforcement. Remember: (1) DPD Officer Smith ran down the Elm St Ext due to being told that they were shooting the President through the "bushes", (2) Mal Couch WC Testimony of hearing witnesses talking about shot(s) being fired through the "Shrubs", (3) Bill Newman reporting that shot(s) were being fired from the "Garden", and (4) Alyea film footage of DPD detectives looking out/down from the TSBD 6th floor window directly above the Huge Gates. This window being all the way down the side of the TSBD AWAY from the sniper's nest. A possible shooter atop the Huge Gates, laying down, and hugging the TSBD, would Not be seen due to this "object". The firing of shot(s) from atop the "wide open" Huge Gates would cause Tree Leafs to fall. This could have given the eyewitnesses the false impression of shot(s) being fired from the "bushes" and/or "shrubs".
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So a 2nd shooter on the garage roof over the gate and just behind this sign fired one additional shot that was not heard? He must have fired the Z313 shot because he had a better quality rifle with a correctly zeroed scope and his plan was one shot one kill.
But this cannot be right because 3/4ths witness heard 3 shots with the last 2 very close together. And Harold Norman heard 3 shots from above him.
So this 2nd shooter must have been almost as stupid as the 6th floor TSBD patsy shooter since he didn’t use a suppressor and fire a subsonic round. He just figured one shot from his typical loud sounding rifle would be heard from slightly different direction and then he would quickly escape unseen from the garage roof by … ( this part must be completed by Royell Storing) Thumb1:
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So a 2nd shooter on the garage roof over the gate and just behind this sign fired one additional shot that was not heard? He must have fired the Z313 shot because he had a better quality rifle with a correctly zeroed scope and his plan was one shot one kill.
But this cannot be right because 3/4ths witness heard 3 shots with the last 2 very close together. And Harold Norman heard 3 shots from above him.
So this 2nd shooter must have been almost as stupid as the 6th floor TSBD patsy shooter since he didn’t use a suppressor and fire a subsonic round. He just figured one shot from his typical loud sounding rifle would be heard from slightly different direction and then he would quickly escape unseen from the garage roof by … ( this part must be completed by Royell Storing) Thumb1:
There were multiple eyewitness accounts of at least 1 shot being fired from the bushes/shrubs that run along the Elm St Extension. Either a shot was fired directly from the other side of those bushes/shrubs, or through the trees directly Above these same bushes/shrubs. That shot would be a Miss/Lost Bullet. Maybe striking the Tague Curb, or near the manhole cover on the (S) side of Elm St.
- A Possible Escape Route From Above The Huge Gates -
There are TSBD 2nd Floor windows that hugged the roof above the Huge Gates. The final TSBD window on the other end of this Roof is right next to the stairwell that Oswald is alleged to have used. A shooter atop the Huge Gates could escape by: (1) Walking along the roof, (2) climbing through that final window, (3) immediately entering the stairwell, (4) exiting the stairwell onto the rear of the TSBD 1st Floor, (5) then walking directly onto the loading dock behind the Huge Gates, (5) exiting the loading dock through the "wide open" Huge Gates, (6) emerging onto the Elm St Extension, and (7) getting into the "getaway" car that is parked only feet away. The "getaway" car having been put in motion down the Elm St Extension upon the sound of shots being fired.