JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate => Topic started by: Tom Graves on June 16, 2025, 09:19:58 PM
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The first shot is off, timing-wise, and I think he has four shots altogether (based on the faulty Dictabelt analysis by the HSCA), but I think he has the spacing and speed of the vehicles synchronized well with the radio transmissions.
https://www.marktyler.org/mc63.html?fbclid=IwY2xjawK4zONleHRuA2FlbQIxMABicmlkETFFODdsRHVIa2RSUGZJNllFAR6Zx-0JB5zBmwy-qakJKtfLfY5vcW9V2IqOrNXjP-oezkHhb-av38NlRUa-uA_aem_2d95NRPz2dpt6k_03l7iYg
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The first shot is off, timing-wise, and I think he has four shots altogether (based on the faulty Dictabelt analysis by the HSCA), but I think he has the spacing and speed of the vehicles synchronized well with the radio transmissions.
https://www.marktyler.org/mc63.html?fbclid=IwY2xjawK4zONleHRuA2FlbQIxMABicmlkETFFODdsRHVIa2RSUGZJNllFAR6Zx-0JB5zBmwy-qakJKtfLfY5vcW9V2IqOrNXjP-oezkHhb-av38NlRUa-uA_aem_2d95NRPz2dpt6k_03l7iYg
Another version with the Zapruder film.
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We know that Zapruder stopped filming at Z-132 while two of the three motorcycle policemen (L.E. Gray and W.G. Lumpkin) were still approaching him on Elm Street.
Question: How long did he pause before resuming filming at Z-133 (the first frame in which the limo is visible in the Zapruder film)?
Answer: According to this animation, about 18 seconds.
According to this animation, the limo was just starting to turn onto Houston Street when the three motorcycle policemen (S. Ellis, L.E. Gray, and W.G. Lumpkin) were starting to turn onto Elm Street, i.e., the limo was a full block behind those three motorcycles.
https://www.marktyler.org/mc63.html?fbclid=IwY2xjawK4zONleHRuA2FlbQIxMABicmlkETFFODdsRHVIa2RSUGZJNllFAR6Zx-0JB5zBmwy-qakJKtfLfY5vcW9V2IqOrNXjP-oezkHhb-av38NlRUa-uA_aem_2d95NRPz2dpt6k_03l7iYg
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Who is that standing at the (N) Elm St curb near the RL Thornton sign, runs up Elm St to the corner and then moves down the Elm St Ext into the railroad yard?
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Who is that standing at the (N) Elm St curb near the RL Thornton sign, runs up Elm St to the corner and then moves down the Elm St Ext into the railroad yard?
Probably the evil, evil CIA mastermind!
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Who is that standing at the (N) Elm St curb near the RL Thornton sign, runs up Elm St to the corner and then moves down the Elm St Ext into the railroad yard?
Storing,
If you're referring to #83, that's big, tall, black-blouse-and-black-headscarf-wearing Gloria Calvery, whom Sandy Larsen and I identified a few years ago at the so-called Ed Forum.
She didn't go down Elm Street Extension to the railroad yard, though, but to her workplace, the TSBD, where she can be seen in the Couch-Darnell clip, standing on a lower step (next to her clad-in-all-white South-Western Publishing Company colleague) and probably talking with either Joe Molina or . . . gasp . . . Billy Lovelady.
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You need to carefully view that link that you posted. It shows the same figure doing exactly what I described.
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You need to carefully view that link that you posted. It shows the same figure doing exactly what I described.
Storing,
Maybe you should have your eyes checked.
After the Z-313 shot, Gloria Calvery (#83) runs up the sidewalk and confers with policeman Joe M. Smith (#80) in the intersection of Elm and Houston. She then continues on to the TSBD steps where she is "captured" in the Darnell clip. Officer Smith (#80), on the other hand, heads down the Elm Street Extension towards the railway yard.
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Storing,
Maybe you should have your eyes checked.
After the Z-313 shot, Gloria Calvery (#83) runs up the sidewalk and confers with policeman Joe M. Smith (#80) in the intersection of Elm and Houston. She then continues on to the TSBD steps where she is "captured" in the Darnell clip. Officer Smith (#80), on the other hand, heads down the Elm Street Extension towards the railway yard.
There are 2 people simultaneously moving down the Elm St Ext toward the railroad yard. They are on different sides of that street. I understand that 1 of them has to be DPD Officer Smith. Who is the other figure?
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There are 2 people simultaneously moving down the Elm St Ext toward the railroad yard. They are on different sides of that street. I understand that 1 of them has to be DPD Officer Smith. Who is the other figure?
If you will click on "Download Handbook," scroll down in it to part "D -- Animation Data" and click on "Actors," you'll realize that all of the numbered thingies in the video are identified by name.
Is your eyesight so bad that you can't even make out the numbers on those moving thingies?
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Due to my Huge Gates research, I am very familiar with who went where with respect to the Elm St Ext. Where did you get Calvary being the one that talked to/sent DPD Officer Smith running down the Elm St Ext? I'll be nice and just say that's a new one. Please review the WC Testimony of Officer Smith and Billy Lovelady. Then we can talk.
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Where did you get Calvary being the one that talked to/sent DPD Officer Smith running down the Elm St Ext?
Storing,
I didn't say that Calvary and/or Smith did that; that's what the person who created the animation, Mark Tyler, shows in it.
I posted the animation not to argue with you about the precise positions of witnesses before, during and after the shooting but to show the positions and speeds of the vehicles in the motorcade so that you can realize that a crucial element of your tinfoil-hat conspiracy theory, i.e., that the bad guys edited out a fairly short but highly incriminating section of the Zapruder film from Z-132 to Z-133, is (pardon the pun) dead wrong.
In fact, as we can see in the animation (which Tyler synchronized with the DPD radio transmissions, photos, films, and known actions of the witnesses), the limo was a whole block (i.e., about 18 seconds) behind the three motorcycles when they started turning onto Elm Street at Z-001.
In retrospect, it's a good thing that he turned his camera off at Z-132, because if he'd kept it running and filmed the incredibly exciting lead car's turning onto Elm Street, traveling towards him on Elm Street, and passing out of his camera's view on Elm Street, he may not have had enough film left to "capture" JFK's and JBC's being wounded by CE-399 around Z-222, JFK's head's going forward and down about 2.25 inches between Z-312 and Z-313, and the explosion of the front-right top and side of JFK's head in Z-313, itself.
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Storing,
I didn't say that Calvary and/or Smith did that; that's what the person who created the animation, Mark Tyler, shows in it.
I posted the animation not to argue with you about the precise positions of witnesses before, during and after the shooting but to show the positions and speeds of the vehicles in the motorcade so that you can realize that a crucial element of your tinfoil-hat conspiracy theory, i.e., that the bad guys edited out a fairly short but highly incriminating section of the Zapruder film from Z-132 to Z-133, is (pardon the pun) dead wrong.
In fact, as we can see in the animation (which Tyler synchronized with the DPD radio transmissions, photos, films, and known actions of the witnesses), the limo was a whole block (i.e., about 18 seconds) behind the three motorcycles when they started turning onto Elm Street at Z-001.
In retrospect, it's a good thing that he turned his camera off at Z-132, because if he'd kept it running and filmed the incredibly exciting lead car's turning onto Elm Street, traveling towards him on Elm Street, and passing out of his camera's view on Elm Street, he may not have had enough film left to "capture" JFK's and JBC's being wounded by CE-399 around Z-222, JFK's head's going forward and down about 2.25 inches between Z-312 and Z-313, and the explosion of the front-right top and side of JFK's head in Z-313, itself.
What you're doing is like someone that retweets something and when it blows up in their face, they claim it's not tied to them. You repeat/reprint a source, You own it. You posted that Looney Tune. You echo'd Calvary telling Officer Smith. That's yours now. It is WRONG via several sources. And you can Not get around Sitzman and Rather. And you know what? Bill Newman backs up part of the Rather description that is Not on the Current Z Film. And based on Newman's location, if he can see it, then it should be on the Zapruder Film. Except it ain't. Now why is that?
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What you're doing is like someone that retweets something and when it blows up in their face, they claim it's not tied to them. You repeat/reprint a source, You own it. You posted that Looney Tune. You echo'd Calvary telling Officer Smith. That's yours now. It is WRONG via several sources. And you can Not get around Sitzman and Rather. And you know what? Bill Newman backs up part of the Rather description that is Not on the Current Z Film. And based on Newman's location, if he can see it, then it should be on the Zapruder Film. Except it ain't. Now why is that?
Storing,
Who was the "hysterical woman" whom Smith claimed came up to him when he was heading towards the TSBD from his post in-or-near the Elm Street - Houston Street intersection and said to him, "They're shooting at the President from the bushes!"?
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Is that a trick question? With your Looney Tune in mind, do you know where Officer Smith encountered this Hysterical woman? Do a deeper research dive and think everything through. You can thank me later.
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Is that a trick question? With your Looney Tune in mind, do you know where Officer Smith encountered this Hysterical woman? Do a deeper research dive and think everything through. You can thank me later.
Questions:
Was Officer Smith lying when he testified that he was in the intersection of Houston and Elm when the shooting started, and that he started heading to the TSBD when they stopped?
Can Gloria Calvery be seen on a lower TSBD step with her back to the camera in Darnell, and can her all-in-white colleague be seen ascending the steps to her immediate right? If so, isn't it logical to assume that they had walked/run up the Elm Street sidewalk to the TSBD steps?
Didn't Buell Wesley Frazier say in so many words that a hysterical woman came up to the steps, bawling out that the president had been shot?
Isn't it logical to assume that the woman he's talking about is Gloria Calvery?
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That Looney Tune link you posted shows the 2 figures being on the Elm St Ext close to the TSBD front door. She actually rounds that corner and is physically on the Elm St Ext. On the Couch Film, we are supposed to be seeing Officer Smith running down the Elm St Ext at about 30 seconds after the Kill Shot. Do you think that Calvary could have made it down to where Officer Smith was standing in Less than 30 seconds after the Kill Shot? And then hysterically tell him about shots coming from the bushes? And then Smith goes running down the Elm St Ext? ALL of this transpiring within 30 seconds after the Kill Shot? Calvary could not have reached/told Officer Smith within the 30 second time frame. And Smith was Not already on the Elm St Ext when the hysterical lady told him of shots being fired from the bushes. The Looney Tune has this all wrong.
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That Looney Tune link you posted shows the 2 figures being on the Elm St Ext close to the TSBD front door. She actually rounds that corner and is physically on the Elm St Ext. On the Couch Film, we are supposed to be seeing Officer Smith running down the Elm St Ext at about 30 seconds after the Kill Shot. Do you think that Calvary could have made it down to where Officer Smith was standing in Less than 30 seconds after the Kill Shot? And then hysterically tell him about shots coming from the bushes? And then Smith goes running down the Elm St Ext? ALL of this transpiring within 30 seconds after the Kill Shot? Calvary could not have reached/told Officer Smith within the 30 second time frame. And Smith was Not already on the Elm St Ext when the hysterical lady told him of shots being fired from the bushes. The Looney Tune has this all wrong.
Storing,
Calvery and her three South-Western Publishing Company colleagues weren't very far from the TSBD steps.
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I told Mark years ago that he did an amazing job plotting and putting all of this together.
There were NO - repeat - NO early shots. This is a myth that was concocted by LN supporters that try to put a square peg into a round hole.
Do you really think professional assassins would miss that badly after practicing this over and over again at some undetermined place? No.
No shots are fired until immediately after you see Kennedy when he appears from the sign. He's looking to his left, the women down there shout "over here," he looks to his right and waves, goes behind the sign, and then is shot in the throat, then immediately afterward in the back.
It's clear - except for the usual LN supporters - that the throat shot happens and then the back shot pushes him slightly forward, bobbing his head while his hands are already up to his throat.
Which is why the autopsy photos showing the wounds never - to this day - have lined up like they should if there was a single shot. It's physically impossible. And now we have real testimony from that doctor recently confirming it.
LN supporters are like today's Trump supporters - they lack critical thinking skills and you can't teach them anything new because they don't want to learn anything new.
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There were NO - repeat - NO early shots.
Walton,
You're full of beans and KGB* disinformation whether you realize it or not, just as you were years ago when I had to enlighten you several times at the so-called Education Forum.
*Today's SVR and FSB
LN supporters Tinfoil-hat JFKA conspiracy theorists are like today's Trump supporters - they lack critical thinking skills and you can't teach them anything new because they don't want to learn anything new.
I've edited it for you.
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Storing,
Calvery and her three South-Western Publishing Company colleagues weren't very far from the TSBD steps.
Officer Smith was not at the TSBD Steps. Carefully read his WC Testimony. And then read the WC Testimonies of Lovelady and Shelley. They both timeline Calvary. You're buying into that Looney Tune as if it were gospel. Do your own research. "Check, Check, Triple Check" will keep you from backing the wrong horse. You got a "nag" here.
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Officer Smith was not at the TSBD Steps. Carefully read his WC Testimony. And then read the WC Testimonies of Lovelady and Shelley. They both timeline Calvary. You're buying into that Looney Tune as if it were gospel. Do your own research. "Check, Check, Triple Check" will keep you from backing the wrong horse. You got a "nag" here.
Storing,
Human memories are fallible, especially regarding traumatic and/or chaotic experiences. Case in point: the post-shooting recollections of Lovelady and Shelley as to what they did and when they did it.
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Lovelady and Shelley testified Less than 5 months after the assassination. And you want to challenge their recollections regarding a POTUS Assassination? This is the biggest hole in you guys thought process. You disregard Eyewitness Testimony. This is why crucial Facts are overlooked and or just cavalierly disregarded. This is why the Huge Gates being "Wide Open" before, during, and immediately after the assassination has been missed for 61+ yrs. These "Wide Open" Gates are not only an escape route from the TSBD, but they also provide a means for "strangers" to enter the TSBD with weapon(s) and remain unseen. Eyewitness testimony is extremely important. Being familiar with it is a means of "fact gathering" that at some future point in time can come into play. Your disregarding the testimony of Lovelady and Shelley is a huge mistake.
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Lovelady and Shelley testified Less than 5 months after the assassination. And you want to challenge their recollections regarding a POTUS Assassination? This is the biggest hole in you guys thought process. You disregard Eyewitness Testimony. This is why crucial Facts are overlooked and or just cavalierly disregarded. This is why the Huge Gates being "Wide Open" before, during, and immediately after the assassination has been missed for 61+ yrs. These "Wide Open" Gates are not only an escape route from the TSBD, but they also provide a means for "strangers" to enter the TSBD with weapon(s) and remain unseen. Eyewitness testimony is extremely important. Being familiar with it is a means of "fact gathering" that at some future point in time can come into play. Your disregarding the testimony of Lovelady and Shelley is a huge mistake.
As usual, you argue against yourself, Storing. The fact that the assassination was of POTUS magnified the degree of chaos and trauma that Shelley and Lovelady (and the oodles and gobs of motorcade-witnessing people around them) experienced.
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And your proof that Calvary is the "hysterical" woman that prompted DPD Officer Smith to run down the Elm St. Ext is specifically what? I proffer sworn WC testimony and you offer speculation. And remember that the hysterical woman told Officer Smith that THEY were shooting the President from the Bushes. I believe that these Bushes were on the other side of the Elm St Ext across from the "Wide Open" Huge Gates which led into the TSBD 1st Floor and right next to the stairwell and freight elevator.