JFK Assassination Forum
The JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Lance Payette on March 29, 2025, 09:38:44 PM
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Yes, Prayer Person has been beaten to death. I was surprised to see that the folks at the Ed Forum are all atwitter because Rep. Luna is going to request the original Darnell and Wiegman films from NBC. At last we will know the truth, or maybe not. (I use the term Prayer Person because, as Duncan once argued, PP looks more like a woman to me.)
I confess, I lack sufficient imagination to become enthusiastic about PP. Yet many quality researchers like Greg Parker and Bart Kamp and others have been. One notable windbag at the Ed Forum has asserted that PP is Oswald “beyond a reasonable doubt.” I truly always wonder, “What cogs are turning inside their heads that aren’t turning in mine?”
If the issue were simply, “Who is that amorphous figure on the top of the TSBD steps?” – well, sure, this would be interesting and nice to know. It’s the enthusiasm that this might be – no, is! – Oswald that mystifies me.
Read my lips: I don’t want to know the details of why you think PP is Oswald. I’ve heard all the arguments. I simply want to hear why you think this notion makes any sense at all. What is your logic? You will note that all PP discussions focus solely on the technical details of why the amorphous figure could be Oswald and ignore more basic issues such as these:
1. In what sort of conspiracy would it make any sense to place a rifle traceable to Oswald on the 6th floor of the TSBD but allow him to be standing on the steps in full view at the time of the shooting? I am so dull that I can’t think of anything. If you don’t at least have the patsy under control and out of sight, how is he an effective patsy? If the rifle is on the 6th floor and the patsy is on the steps, doesn’t this pretty much scream “Conspiracy!” Get me over this mental hurdle, PP fans!
2. It would seem to be pure happenstance that no clear photo of PP exists. There could have been 20 cameras trained on that location that clearly showed PP was Oswald and blew the Lone Nut narrative clean out of the water, but the conspirators took this risk and by pure happenstance there weren’t. By pure happenstance, “Oswald” is a blurry blob in the shadows. Plausible?
3. The steps and the immediate area were crawling with people, mostly fellow TSBD employees. No one recalled seeing Oswald standing there? No one recalled the supposed assassin? Not one person so much as had a sudden flash of "Hey, could that have been Oswald standing there?" Plausible?
4. How on earth is it possible that in all of his interactions with police, reporters and family members, Oswald never screamed at the top of his lungs “For God’s sake, I was standing right there on the steps!!! At least five or ten people must’ve seen me! Talk to them!” Despite the cryptic “out with Bill Shelley in front” in Fritz’ notes, Oswald never screamed to reporters “Someone please talk to Bill Shelley! I was standing there with him!” Plausible? (Indeed, when specifically asked by a reporter “Were you in the building at the time?” Oswald answered “Naturally, if I work in that building, yes sir.” He didn't answer, "Well, no, I was out on the steps with Bill Shelley, as I feel sure he will confirm.")
5. PP is inconsistent with the Baker-Truly lunchroom encounter and Mrs. Reid’s office encounter (with Oswald in a t-shirt!), is it not? Is it plausible that both these encounters were invented as part of a conspiracy? “They” got to Baker, Truly and Reid? If “they” didn’t care that Oswald was standing on the steps in the first place, what was the need for all this? Or perhaps Baker, Truly and Reid were part of the frame-up of Oswald from the get-go - but wouldn't the more obvious frame-up have been to simply control him so he wasn't on the steps? Oy, I'm getting a headache ...
Make sense of if for me, if you can.
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1. In what sort of conspiracy would it make any sense to place a rifle traceable to Oswald on the 6th floor of the TSBD but allow him to be standing on the steps in full view at the time of the shooting?
If it is LHO, how do we know he didn't wander down there on his own, not doing what he had been told to do, i.e. stay by yourself, out of sight of other people.
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1. In what sort of conspiracy would it make any sense to place a rifle traceable to Oswald on the 6th floor of the TSBD but allow him to be standing on the steps in full view at the time of the shooting?
If it is LHO, how do we know he didn't wander down there on his own, not doing what he had been told to do, i.e. stay by yourself, out of sight of other people.
You, then, are positing a conspiracy where the pesky patsy fails to stay out of sight as he's been told to do and wanders out onto the steps. Now you will need to explain (1) why the patsy doesn't question why he's being told to stay out of sight, and (2) why, in a PRESIDENTIAL ASSASSINATION, the conspirators would trust the patsy to stay where he's told and exercise no control over him. Thanks for trying, but this really doesn't address any of the issues I raised. For starters, if our patsy had wandered out to the steps, wouldn't his screaming alibi have been "I WAS STANDING ON THE STEPS!!!" as I suggested?
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The Hosty note where Oswald allegedly says he's going outside to watch the P/parade is what reignited the Prayerperson nonsense.
(https://i.imgur.com/BbjrRa7.jpeg)
I have addressed Prayerperson(PP) with this 3D representation of the Darnell frame. Since we know Frazier's height of about 6 foot we can establish that PP is much shorter than the 5'9" of Oswald.
(https://i.ibb.co/5gM6H549/PM-five-foot-three-zpsdyfd74jb.jpg)
There was some debate that PP had one foot on the lower step and thus the height of PP could correspond to Oswald's height but PP is way back in the shadow and another proof is since the camera was moving horizontally we can determine the horizontal parallax movement of stationary objects which does require an assumption that the object didn't move in the fraction of a second between frames, so assuming that both Frazier and PP were stationary we can see PP relative to the vertical frame behind shows virtually no parallax movement indicating she was close to the corner and Frazier because he was further away from the door shows more horizontal movement.
(https://i.ibb.co/bgpYRVVN/pm1-zpsorhj1xpm.gif)
And besides this visual proof, we have Oswald himself agreeing that he was inside at the time!
@1:15
Rep Luna who is holding a hearing on of all dates April first(LOL) says NBC has never seen before footage(which if it's the Darnell film we have definitely seen a low res version), of Oswald(PP) near the Limo, this whole fiasco is going to embarrass a LOT of people and will forever cement the entire JFKA CT community as a bunch of Loons(Luns) Hahahaha!
@2:20
JohnM
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Can no CTer articulate a plausible basis for the notion that PP is Oswald?
I'll even get you started: When I posed the same question at the Ed Forum years ago, one CTer offered that the conspirators were "sending a message." The message was, basically, "We're such bad dudes and so firmly in control that we don't even CARE if our patsy is seen standing on the steps of the TBSD when he is supposed to be shooting from the 6th floor."
SURELY, someone can do better than THAT?
Come on, people, there really are quite a number of serious researchers who take PP seriously. There must be SOME logic to it - mustn't there?
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Why does there have to be an elaborate conspiratorial reason for everything that happened? Just so you can argue that "it doesn't make sense that a Conspiracy would do that, therefore Oswald killed Kennedy"?
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Why does there have to be an elaborate conspiratorial reason for everything that happened? Just so you can argue that "it doesn't make sense that a Conspiracy would do that, therefore Oswald killed Kennedy"?
There does not have to be an elaborate conspiratorial reason for everything. An argument can have epistemological warrant - i.e., be epistemologically justified - even if it is wrong. However, it cannot be epistemologically justified if the proponent cannot articulate a coherent rationale. I simply challenge CTers to articulate a rational, coherent theory as to how the designated patsy who is ostensibly shooting from the 6th floor could be allowed to be standing in full view on the front steps. You apparently cannot do it, and that's fine. Given all the Prayer Man brouhaha, however, I'm just surprised that no one can. It does tend to suggest that CTers don't think at the level of niceties like "Does this make any sense?" If your theory is that the conspirators actually were complete bumbling fools - well, OK, that's a coherent rationale of sorts, although it seems unlikely in the context of a Presidential assassination.
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There does not have to be an elaborate conspiratorial reason for everything. An argument can have epistemological warrant - i.e., be epistemologically justified - even if it is wrong. However, it cannot be epistemologically justified if the proponent cannot articulate a coherent rationale. I simply challenge CTers to articulate a rational, coherent theory as to how the designated patsy who is ostensibly shooting from the 6th floor could be allowed to be standing in full view on the front steps. You apparently cannot do it, and that's fine. Given all the Prayer Man brouhaha, however, I'm just surprised that no one can. It does tend to suggest that CTers don't think at the level of niceties like "Does this make any sense?" If your theory is that the conspirators actually were complete bumbling fools - well, OK, that's a coherent rationale of sorts, although it seems unlikely in the context of a Presidential assassination.
Prayer man is either Oswald or it is not. It doesn't have to "make sense" to you in the context of a strawman Conspiracy with a designated patsy.
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Prayer man is either Oswald or it is not. It doesn't have to "make sense" to you in the context of a strawman Conspiracy with a designated patsy.
In your zeal for one-line inanity, you persistently miss the point. Perhaps slow down and think? No, Prayer Person doesn't have to make sense to me. It has to make sense IN THE CONTEXT OF WHATEVER THEORY IS BEING ASSERTED BY THE PERSON WHO CLAIMS IT IS OR COULD BE OSWALD.
While I understand that you live in Kantian La-La Land where nothing is real, most people accept that Oswald's rifle was on the 6th floor and that he was either up there shooting or a patsy. Any conspiracy that has him as a patsy has to explain Prayer Person IN THAT CONTEXT.
Moreover, I can think of NO theory whereby he wouldn't have been screaming "I WAS ON THE STEPS!!! TEN PEOPLE MUST'VE SEEN ME!!!" if he were, in fact, on the steps. Ergo, I am simply interested in the thinking of anyone who asserts a likelihood that Prayer Person is Oswald.
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In your zeal for one-line inanity, you persistently miss the point. Perhaps slow down and think? No, Prayer Person doesn't have to make sense to me. It has to make sense IN THE CONTEXT OF WHATEVER THEORY IS BEING ASSERTED BY THE PERSON WHO CLAIMS IT IS OR COULD BE OSWALD.
While I understand that you live in Kantian La-La Land where nothing is real, most people accept that Oswald's rifle was on the 6th floor and that he was either up there shooting or a patsy. Any conspiracy that has him as a patsy has to explain Prayer Person IN THAT CONTEXT.
Moreover, I can think of NO theory whereby he wouldn't have been screaming "I WAS ON THE STEPS!!! TEN PEOPLE MUST'VE SEEN ME!!!" if he were, in fact, on the steps. Ergo, I am simply interested in the thinking of anyone who asserts a likelihood that Prayer Person is Oswald.
Lance,
Maybe the oodles and gobs of bad guys and really, really bad gals who planned the assassination, "patsied" Oswald," killed JFK with Oswald's short-rifle, created and planted CE-399, and participated in the cover up WANTED Oswald to be photographed in the dark recesses of the front entrance -- just so we'd be arguing about his presence or non-presence there some sixty-two years after THE BIG EVENT.
-- Tom
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In your zeal for one-line inanity, you persistently miss the point. Perhaps slow down and think? No, Prayer Person doesn't have to make sense to me. It has to make sense IN THE CONTEXT OF WHATEVER THEORY IS BEING ASSERTED BY THE PERSON WHO CLAIMS IT IS OR COULD BE OSWALD.
The only person here trying to put this into the context of a larger "theory" is YOU.
While I understand that you live in Kantian La-La Land where nothing is real, most people accept that Oswald's rifle was on the 6th floor and that he was either up there shooting or a patsy.
Who appointed you the spokesperson for "most people"?
Moreover, I can think of NO theory whereby he wouldn't have been screaming "I WAS ON THE STEPS!!! TEN PEOPLE MUST'VE SEEN ME!!!" if he were, in fact, on the steps. Ergo, I am simply interested in the thinking of anyone who asserts a likelihood that Prayer Person is Oswald.
Well, obviously no people saw or remembered Prayerman or we would already know who it was. And that's not surprising given that they were all watching the motorcade. Unfortunately we know very little about what Oswald may or may not have screamed except through the filter of law enforcement.
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Maybe the oodles and gobs of bad guys and really, really bad gals who planned the assassination, "patsied" Oswald," killed JFK with Oswald's short-rifle, created and planted CE-399, and participated in the cover up WANTED Oswald to be photographed in the dark recesses of the front entrance -- just so we'd be arguing about his presence or non-presence there some sixty-two years after THE BIG EVENT.
"Killed JFK with Oswald's short-rifle". LOL.
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The only person here trying to put this into the context of a larger "theory" is YOU.
Who appointed you the spokesperson for "most people"?
Well, obviously no people saw or remembered Prayerman or we would already know who it was. And that's not surprising given that they were all watching the motorcade. Unfortunately we know very little about what Oswald may or may not have screamed except through the filter of law enforcement.
BINGO! You just joined Dan O'Meara in the bin of Those Who Are Simply Not Worth My Time. You, Dan and the Harvey & Lee brigade (they're in there too) can amuse each other.
If you didn't have 11,000 posts, I truly would think you might be a 15-year-old in mommy's basement. Your posts are so unfailingly witless as to be almost fascinating for their sheer neener-neener witlessness.
Right, conspiracy theorists don't need no stinkin' theory. They just need ... well, what DO they need to be conspiracy theorists anyway? Is "The Lone Nut narrative is just, like, so totally dumb, man" a theory in itself? Maybe I've been under a misapprehension that conspiracy theorists at least thought they were articulating a coherent position when in fact it's simply "The Lone Nut narrative is just, like, so totally dumb, man."
Anyway, enjoy the bin. Bye-bye.
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BINGO! You just joined Dan O'Meara in the bin of Those Who Are Simply Not Worth My Time. You, Dan and the Harvey & Lee brigade (they're in there too) can amuse each other.
This is your go-to when you cannot respond to the points raised.
Basically what you are doing is whining that we are not arguing within the context of your narrowly defined assumptions, therefore you are going to take your ball and go home.
But not without flouncing with an insult for good measure. Which is part of the standard LN script.
I'm not a conspiracy theorist. Why should I be compelled to come up with one? Just so you can shift the burden away from your own failing narrative?
Like your propaganda is some gift that should be sought out and cherished?
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This is your go-to when you cannot respond to the points raised.
Basically what you are doing is whining that we are not arguing within the context of your narrowly defined assumptions, therefore you are going to take your ball and go home.
But not without flouncing with an insult for good measure. Which is part of the standard LN script.
I'm not a conspiracy theorist. Why should I be compelled to come up with one? Just so you can shift the burden away from your own failing narrative?
Like your propaganda is some gift that should be sought out and cherished?
I'm not a conspiracy theorist.
Hahahaha! Who do you think you're kidding?
You're just copying Weidmann. Of course you're a conspiracy theorist, you continually theorize in over eleven thousand posts that it wasn't Oswald and keep elaborating on this theory by rejecting each piece of the Mountain of evidence that incriminates Oswald and in doing so, you constantly say/imply that the evidence is manipulated, the very definition of a conspiracy.
Just because you're not smart enough to figure out where all your denials lead doesn't stop you from being a grade "A" conspiracy theorist! LOL!
JohnM
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Hahahaha! Who do you think you're kidding?
You're just copying Weidmann. Of course you're a conspiracy theorist, you continually theorize in over eleven thousand posts that it wasn't Oswald and keep elaborating on this theory by rejecting each piece of the Mountain of evidence that incriminates Oswald and in doing so, you constantly say/imply that the evidence is manipulated, the very definition of a conspiracy.
Just because you're not smart enough to figure out where all your denials lead doesn't stop you from being a grade "A" conspiracy theorist! LOL!
Now you're just flat-out lying the same way you flat-out lie about the evidence. Cite a single post where I "theorize that it wasn't Oswald" or "say/imply that the evidence is manipulated".
There is no "mountain of evidence that incriminates Oswald". It's a mountain of "Mytton" Bs.
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"Killed JFK with Oswald's short-rifle". LOL.
Iacoletti, to whom did the Carcano belong if not Oswald?
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Now you're just flat-out lying the same way you flat-out lie about the evidence. Cite a single post where I "theorize that it wasn't Oswald" or "say/imply that the evidence is manipulated".
There is no "mountain of evidence that incriminates Oswald". It's a mountain of "Mytton" bullspombleprofglidnoctobuns.
You can't be serious!? Just today you posted that CE399 didn't have to found at Parkland and could have come from anytime after the assassination therefore you implied that CE399 which BTW was fired from Oswald's rifle, was manufactured to incriminate Oswald. Don't you even read your own posts?
JohnM
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Iacoletti, to whom did the Carcano belong if not Oswald?
Silly argument.
To whom did the Carcano belong if not Bozo the Clown?
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You can't be serious!? Just today you posted that CE399 didn't have to found at Parkland and could have come from anytime after the assassination therefore you implied that CE399 which BTW was fired from Oswald's rifle, was manufactured to incriminate Oswald. Don't you even read your own posts?
There's no good reason to believe that CE399 was ever at Parkland. Do you have any evidence of that whatsoever?
P.S. "Oswald's rifle". LOL.
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Silly argument.
To whom did the Carcano belong if not Bozo the Clown?
Perhaps Oswald's rifle was the same rifle that Oswald ordered, paid for, was sent to his PO box, was photographed with a few weeks after receiving it, was discovered on the 6th floor of where he worked and had his palmprint!
(https://i.ibb.co/cSxjYcmW/purchase-of-rifle-documents-oswald.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/LXZfjv9H/ce133b.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/hJT4VTRm/oswald-rifle-6th-floor.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/3yMYfBX1/Day-oswald-palm-print.jpg)
JohnM
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Perhaps Oswald's rifle was the same rifle that Oswald ordered, paid for, was sent to his PO box, was photographed with a few weeks after receiving it, was discovered on the 6th floor of where he worked and had his palmprint!
Or perhaps not...
Corrections:
Unscientific and biased handwriting “analysis” of two block letters on a photo of a microfilm copy of a 2-inch order coupon (from microfilm that is “missing”) purports that he filled out an order for a similar but not identical rifle. But you have no evidence or documentation of any kind showing that such a package ever went through the postal service, was delivered to the PO Box in Dallas, or that any required forms were filled out, or that any such package was signed for and picked up by Oswald or anybody else.
There's nothing connecting the money order found in Virginia to any particular Klein's order.
The rifle in the backyard photos cannot be uniquely identified.
The partial palmprint was found on an index card that showed up a week later, after the FBI found no usable prints on the actual rifle.
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The logic of prayerman is oswald’s rifle, it would seem. hey Brian, for all you do, this thread’s for you!
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I'll say this right now, we won't be getting any Darnell or Wiegman film from NBC, no, it's not because Mr.Conspiracy is blocking access or something, no, it's because usually news agencies only sell their footage, not to us civilians, no, but to directors, people in the film or documentary industry who want to license the footage, and usually for a fortune, so just to recap, it's not because the CIA is hiding xxxx, it's because only industry companies can license it.
In short, xxxx the United Press International television news, xxxx AP, rats like those gatekeep stuff like the high quality muchmore film and the news films.
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so it’s Sean Murphy’s prayerman or raff sink’s doorwayman. any other possibilities?
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Yes, Prayer Person has been beaten to death. I was surprised to see that the folks at the Ed Forum are all atwitter because Rep. Luna is going to request the original Darnell and Wiegman films from NBC. At last we will know the truth, or maybe not. (I use the term Prayer Person because, as Duncan once argued, PP looks more like a woman to me.)
I confess, I lack sufficient imagination to become enthusiastic about PP. Yet many quality researchers like Greg Parker and Bart Kamp and others have been. One notable windbag at the Ed Forum has asserted that PP is Oswald “beyond a reasonable doubt.” I truly always wonder, “What cogs are turning inside their heads that aren’t turning in mine?”
If the issue were simply, “Who is that amorphous figure on the top of the TSBD steps?” – well, sure, this would be interesting and nice to know. It’s the enthusiasm that this might be – no, is! – Oswald that mystifies me.
Read my lips: I don’t want to know the details of why you think PP is Oswald. I’ve heard all the arguments. I simply want to hear why you think this notion makes any sense at all. What is your logic? You will note that all PP discussions focus solely on the technical details of why the amorphous figure could be Oswald and ignore more basic issues such as these:
1. In what sort of conspiracy would it make any sense to place a rifle traceable to Oswald on the 6th floor of the TSBD but allow him to be standing on the steps in full view at the time of the shooting? I am so dull that I can’t think of anything. If you don’t at least have the patsy under control and out of sight, how is he an effective patsy? If the rifle is on the 6th floor and the patsy is on the steps, doesn’t this pretty much scream “Conspiracy!” Get me over this mental hurdle, PP fans!
2. It would seem to be pure happenstance that no clear photo of PP exists. There could have been 20 cameras trained on that location that clearly showed PP was Oswald and blew the Lone Nut narrative clean out of the water, but the conspirators took this risk and by pure happenstance there weren’t. By pure happenstance, “Oswald” is a blurry blob in the shadows. Plausible?
3. The steps and the immediate area were crawling with people, mostly fellow TSBD employees. No one recalled seeing Oswald standing there? No one recalled the supposed assassin? Not one person so much as had a sudden flash of "Hey, could that have been Oswald standing there?" Plausible?
4. How on earth is it possible that in all of his interactions with police, reporters and family members, Oswald never screamed at the top of his lungs “For God’s sake, I was standing right there on the steps!!! At least five or ten people must’ve seen me! Talk to them!” Despite the cryptic “out with Bill Shelley in front” in Fritz’ notes, Oswald never screamed to reporters “Someone please talk to Bill Shelley! I was standing there with him!” Plausible? (Indeed, when specifically asked by a reporter “Were you in the building at the time?” Oswald answered “Naturally, if I work in that building, yes sir.” He didn't answer, "Well, no, I was out on the steps with Bill Shelley, as I feel sure he will confirm.")
5. PP is inconsistent with the Baker-Truly lunchroom encounter and Mrs. Reid’s office encounter (with Oswald in a t-shirt!), is it not? Is it plausible that both these encounters were invented as part of a conspiracy? “They” got to Baker, Truly and Reid? If “they” didn’t care that Oswald was standing on the steps in the first place, what was the need for all this? Or perhaps Baker, Truly and Reid were part of the frame-up of Oswald from the get-go - but wouldn't the more obvious frame-up have been to simply control him so he wasn't on the steps? Oy, I'm getting a headache ...
Make sense of if for me, if you can.
I wasn't a member of this forum when Lance posted this a year and a half ago but I whole heartedly agree. I can't understand why this individual, whether a man or a woman, draws so much fascination. Whoever it was had absolutely no involvement in the JFKA other than to witness it.
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I'll say this right now, we won't be getting any Darnell or Wiegman film from NBC, no, it's not because Mr.Conspiracy is blocking access or something, no, it's because usually news agencies only sell their footage, not to us civilians, no, but to directors, people in the film or documentary industry who want to license the footage, and usually for a fortune, so just to recap, it's not because the CIA is hiding sh*t, it's because only industry companies can license it.
In short, F#ck the United Press International television news, F#ck AP, rats like those gatekeep stuff like the high quality muchmore film and the news films.
There was a time when news organizations rarely saved footage. Film and videotape took up space and would be expensive to warehouse. The only reason any of the footage from JFK's Dallas trip was saved was because of what happened in Dealey Plaza. Otherwise, it would have been discarded with as much thought as tossing out yesterday's newspaper. It would not surprise me if NBC never kept this footage. It contains nothing of significance. What reason would there have been to warehouse it all these years. In addition, film and videotape degrade over time and become useless. Even before VHS tapes became obsolete, threw out dozens of movies and other materials that had become unusable.
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In 2016 Chris Davidson proved that Prayer Man was Depository secretary Sarah Stanton when he used digital technology to enhance the clear Wiegman frame showing Sarah Stanton's face on Prayer Man...
Recently the 6th Floor Museum 1st generation copy of the Darnell Film showed a female dress neckline on Prayer Man that was matched to Sarah Stanton's dress neckline seen in the Owens Film...Sandy Larsen took the low route and claimed the dress neckline was a CIA forgery...
Prayer Man's height, in comparison to Frazier standing right next to her, perfectly matches Sarah Stanton's 5 foot 4 height...
The Education Forum is uncredibly using banning and censorship to avoid this evidence...
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BD-
I think you should start a separate thread on Prayer Man, and your treatment at the EF-JFKA.
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BD-
I think you should start a separate thread on Prayer Man, and your treatment at the EF-JFKA.
I think he should disappear, altogether, drop a dose, and go back to listening to Voodoo Child (Slight Return) over and over again.
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In 2016 Chris Davidson proved that Prayer Man was Depository secretary Sarah Stanton when he used digital technology to enhance the clear Wiegman frame showing Sarah Stanton's face on Prayer Man...
Recently the 6th Floor Museum 1st generation copy of the Darnell Film showed a female dress neckline on Prayer Man that was matched to Sarah Stanton's dress neckline seen in the Owens Film...Sandy Larsen took the low route and claimed the dress neckline was a CIA forgery...
Prayer Man's height, in comparison to Frazier standing right next to her, perfectly matches Sarah Stanton's 5 foot 4 height...
The Education Forum is uncredibly using banning and censorship to avoid this evidence...
Nobody cares.
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My field-leading research usually makes those who are not serious look bad and therefore they want to get rid of me...
Which is why the clique was so successful in exterminating me...
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My field-leading research usually makes those who are not serious look bad and therefore they want to get rid of me...
Which is why the clique was so successful in exterminating me...
You are truly a legend in your own mind.
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And I haven't discovered the most important evidence discovery of our generation...
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My field-leading research usually makes those who are not serious look bad and therefore they want to get rid of me...
Which is why the clique was so successful in exterminating me...
"My field-leading research................"
Are you talking about that, "field-leading research", that Nobody has ever seen?
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The woman's dress neckline seen in Chris Davidson's "High Key Filter" image of the 6th Floor Museum's 1st generation copy of Darnell is well-known...As is his enhancement of the sharp Wiegman frame...
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The logic of PM=Oswald is plausible only if Oswald was selected post event as the most likely suspect due to Tippit shot and Oswald confronting McDonald in the Texas theater.
The MC rifle would have had to be planted on the 6th floor of TSBD within about 50 minutes post shots presuming that Boone and Weitzman did actually find the rifle at 1:20 pm.
However Tom Aleya suggests a different later time for the MC rifle being found when he filmed it being lifted by Will Fritz. Aleya also saw Fritz pick up the 3 shells before they were photographed and put them in his pocket. Fritz came back later and put the 3 shells back on the floor to be photographed.
So the alternate scenario here is that a conspirator shooter used a different rifle ( probably semi auto) and left 3 shells that were not MC shells. This shooter took his rifle with him and escaped out of TSBD ether unseen or mistaken as a plainclothes officer coming down the stairs as Luke Mooney went up.
Oswald’s account then of going “out front” and he having selected out all the employees he could have selected, Jarman and Norman , would suggest that Oswald was sitting in the Domino room 1st floor at approx 12:23. He saw J/N returning thru the back loading dock door, Oswald then went to the front entrance lobby at 12:25 and he was looking thru the glass wall when he was seen by Carolyn Arnold looking back at the TSBD.
Thus it is plausible that at 12:29 Oswald opened the front door INWARD , so that he could have exited onto the front entrance landing without disturbing any of the others standing out there. He could have easily slipped over to that west corner where he was be seen in the Darnell film raising some object up to mouth level. That object would be a Dr. Pepper bottle with a white oval logo on it. He then left that bottle by that.step where he had been standing one step lower than the top landing Thus lowering him to appear to be only 5’-2” in height relative to BW Frazier.
Because the current version of Darnell film has the PM figure with a white ring around the neck, the whole PM theory has been summarily dismissed so it would seem.
So despite some logical reasons why the PM figure could be Oswald if it’s a post event framing job, until someone can prove the white ring was added to the latest version of Darnell, there is not hope for the PM=Oswald scenario to be proved.
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The logic of PM=Oswald is plausible only if Oswald was selected post event as the most likely suspect due to Tippit shot and Oswald confronting McDonald in the Texas theater.
The MC rifle would have had to be planted on the 6th floor of TSBD within about 50 minutes post shots presuming that Boone and Weitzman did actually find the rifle at 1:20 pm.
However Tom Aleya suggests a different later time for the MC rifle being found when he filmed it being lifted by Will Fritz. Aleya also saw Fritz pick up the 3 shells before they were photographed and put them in his pocket. Fritz came back later and put the 3 shells back on the floor to be photographed.
So the alternate scenario here is that a conspirator shooter used a different rifle ( probably semi auto) and left 3 shells that were not MC shells. This shooter took his rifle with him and escaped out of TSBD ether unseen or mistaken as a plainclothes officer coming down the stairs as Luke Mooney went up.
Oswald’s account then of going “out front” and he having selected out all the employees he could have selected, Jarman and Norman , would suggest that Oswald was sitting in the Domino room 1st floor at approx 12:23. He saw J/N returning thru the back loading dock door, Oswald then went to the front entrance lobby at 12:25 and he was looking thru the glass wall when he was seen by Carolyn Arnold looking back at the TSBD.
Thus it is plausible that at 12:29 Oswald opened the front door INWARD , so that he could have exited onto the front entrance landing without disturbing any of the others standing out there. He could have easily slipped over to that west corner where he was be seen in the Darnell film raising some object up to mouth level. That object would be a Dr. Pepper bottle with a white oval logo on it. He then left that bottle by that.step where he had been standing one step lower than the top landing Thus lowering him to appear to be only 5’-2” in height relative to BW Frazier.
Because the current version of Darnell film has the PM figure with a white ring around the neck, the whole PM theory has been summarily dismissed so it would seem.
So despite some logical reasons why the PM figure could be Oswald if it’s a post event framing job, until someone can prove the white ring was added to the latest version of Darnell, there is not hope for the PM=Oswald scenario to be proved.
Why would you go through all these mental gymnastics when there is a simple, straight forward, and obvious solution. Oswald shot and killed JFK and left the rifle behind as he fled the scene of the crime. That answer is compatible with all the available evidence. It is the only answer that is compatible with all the available evidence.
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Why would you go through all these mental gymnastics when there is a simple, straight forward, and obvious solution. Oswald shot and killed JFK and left the rifle behind as he fled the scene of the crime. That answer is compatible with all the available evidence. It is the only answer that is compatible with all the available evidence.
We have already excluded that premise by multiple means from the paraffin test, to Sarah Stanton hearing Oswald say he was going back in to the Break Room, to Mrs Garner failing to see Oswald course across the 4th Floor staircase landing when required...Hosty admitted to Nigel Turner that Oswald said he was in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room alone during the assassination...
To ignore all this is to pretend a falsehood that is intolerable under the circumstances...
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Oswald’s account then of going “out front” and he having selected out all the employees he could have selected, Jarman and Norman , would suggest that Oswald was sitting in the Domino room 1st floor at approx 12:23. He saw J/N returning thru the back loading dock door, Oswald then went to the front entrance lobby at 12:25 and he was looking thru the glass wall when he was seen by Carolyn Arnold looking back at the TSBD.
All you are doing there is honoring Bart Kamp's already-refuted rubbish...
Just the bare skin of Sarah Stanton's chest, as seen in the 6th Floor Museum's 1st generation copy of Darnell, is proof enough that Prayer Man is rubbish...The whole theory was admitted to me by Greg Parker to have originated from himself and was then taken up by Sean Murphy...Greg Parker is an evidence-hacker and research undermining troll...
You have to be able to locate Sarah Stanton in order to prove she is somewhere else other than in the Prayer Man position...The Prayer Man people have not been able to credibly do that...Instead they gang up...Offer completely fabricated BS...And then work their crony moderators, podcasters, and insider clique in order to censor those with the correct evidence...
Any researcher with any common sense and research ability will realize Prayer Man has been proven to be Sarah Stanton six ways to Sunday and it needs to be accepted as refuted...
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Why would you go through all these mental gymnastics when there is a simple, straight forward, and obvious solution. Oswald shot and killed JFK and left the rifle behind as he fled the scene of the crime. That answer is compatible with all the available evidence. It is the only answer that is compatible with all the available evidence.
Well I almost agree with you except for a few problems. I’ve gradually moved towards Oswald being the solitary shooter because otherwise it has to be explained why the conspirator shooter ( or 2) would have chosen Dealey Plaza and a moving target option which is the more difficult option when there were other places where JFK would be a stationary target without even SS agents or motorcycles in the way.
Lance asked if there was any logic to the prayer man= Oswald scenario and the best alternative I could manage was that it had to be a post event framing of Oswald because Lance already demonstrated how absurd it would be if it was a pre planned frame letting Oswald wander around and be outside at time of shooting.
So it was an interesting exercise trying to devise an alternative to the solitary TSBD shooter scenario which is certainly the simple solution but messed up by the handling of evidence and documenting and chain of custody issues. Then that Garner question ( did she wait 1 minute or was it only 30 secs?) IDK , but if it’s 1 minute then there’s no problem as the TSBD shooter could have gone down the stairs past the 4th floor landing easily by 1 min post shots.
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Dealey Plaza was a good slow down and turn similar to the Heydrich assassination...But that has nothing to do with the evidence that has already proven Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton...The only two people not visible in Altgens 6 are Prayer Man and Frazier...That alone makes Prayer Man Stanton since we know she was on the top platform...
Garner said she ran right after Adams & Styles and heard them just running down the steps as Garner got to the 4th Floor staircase landing...Garner said the girls were already gone before the limousine entered the Triple Underpass...This timing means Garner was to the landing probably 40 seconds after the shots...Oswald would have needed to cross the 4th Floor landing at 70 seconds after the shots...This proves, dead to rights, that Oswald was in the Lunch Room the whole time...The reason Oswald got up from his lunch in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room and looked out the Lunch Room Vestibule door window was because he heard Adams & Styles clattering by on their way down the stairs...Garner never saw or heard Oswald because he was in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room during the assassination...
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Dealey Plaza was a good slow down and turn similar to the Heydrich assassination...But that has nothing to do with the evidence that has already proven Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton...The only two people not visible in Altgens 6 are Prayer Man and Frazier...That alone makes Prayer Man Stanton since we know she was on the top platform...
Garner said she ran right after Adams & Styles and heard them just running down the steps as Garner got to the 4th Floor staircase landing...Garner said the girls were already gone before the limousine entered the Triple Underpass...This timing means Garner was to the landing probably 40 seconds after the shots...Oswald would have needed to cross the 4th Floor landing at 70 seconds after the shots...This proves, dead to rights, that Oswald was in the Lunch Room the whole time...The reason Oswald got up from his lunch in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room and looked out the Lunch Room Vestibule door window was because he heard Adams & Styles clattering by on their way down the stairs...Garner never saw or heard Oswald because he was in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room during the assassination...
This is typical of your illogical outlook on every aspect of the JFKA.
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When the woman's dress neckline appeared a couple of years ago John Cotter and some other members posted that it vindicated "The much maligned Brian Doyle"...There was, of course, no honest response to Cotter's remark on the forum...The Alpha Wolves on The Education Forum have hijacked the forum and are enforcing non-mention of myself or my research under any circumstances...Gordon was still in charge when that new evidence from the 6th Floor Museum 1st generation copy of Darnell emerged so the Alpha Wolves knew they would have backing for their dishonesty and not have to account for evidence that proved they were squarely wrong and therefore had persecuted and censored an innocent researcher whose evidence proved to be correct...That's how Jim DiEugenio rolls...Gordon was, at that time, wandering away from the forum and abandoning it...Perhaps out of the realization that I had won...The Education Forum almost lost their site due to them not detecting a rogue administrator and keeping him honest...Iler knows exactly what shoes he's filling and what is expected of him...The "Moderator Team" keeps members from pointing out the sheer conflict of interest Iler's association with Jim DiEugenio represents...Iler's power is purely technical and is due to Invision's proprietary rules that are written in favor of legality instead of academic honesty...Jim D ignores all this and leans entirely on censorship and shunning and his bet pays off...Sandy Larsen also knew what was expected of him and helped save the clique from losing face by declaring that the dress neckline was a CIA forgery designed to conceal Oswald's work shirt collar...Larsen did that with no evidence what so ever on a site where Iler hypocritically announces that such evidence is required of all members...Larsen was then allowed to ignore layers of other evidence that showed the neckline was Sarah Stanton's dress neckline...Though Iler sells himself as a caller for objective proof and the best evidence he ignores that Schnapf and others have worked the forum and are using the bias they enjoy to avoid calling for the 6th Floor Museum copy of Darnell...They are avoiding that copy because the favored clique members have worked their favored status and lobbied the forum to not call for the best available copy of Darnell...The simple reason for this is because they know the 6th Floor Museum copy will expose their wrongness on Prayer Man and it is not something they are going to willingly admit while they are in control of the forum...
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When the woman's dress neckline appeared a couple of years ago John Cotter and some other members posted that it vindicated "The much maligned Brian Doyle"...
So you were correct about an irrelevant triviality. Congratulations. You must be so proud.
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The real lesson is the clique members who are favored by the crony moderation allowed Jim D to ignore this evidence and take a Greg Parker hoax theory to Congress...That hoax theory is now the password to acceptance on the hijacked JFK internet...The Education Forum is collectively ignoring the correct evidence and is discriminating against the best and brightest who are capable of refuting the Prayer Man theory...Reverse moderation while pretending to uphold the highest research standards...Not one of those phonies confronted Kamp on why, when he returned to the EF, he never once mentioned his prize Prayer Man theory?...He didn't mention it because he knows it is refuted...The forum is helping bail him out and keep the researchers they victimized banned...
Anyhow, the nuts who push the Prayer Man theory (Kamp) are so dedicated to their hack-work that they made me read the deep research they did...That deep research led me to discover the evidence discovery of our generation in the form of Sarah Stanton hearing Oswald say he was going back in to the 2nd Floor Lunch Room during the assassination...I also put the Harvey & Lee puzzle together in the Lobby...
Moderator Mark Knight ignored all this and said I was banned for life because I called Kathy Beckett a bad name on the no-rules McAdams forum where Kathy started it first by calling me too stupid to post images...May I ask why this critically important evidence has to deal with sycophantic non-entities with no research resume like Knight and Beckett?...When I asked Beckett how she justified keeping this important evidence from The Education Forum and its members she refused to answer and went back to the forum to falsely claim I was attacking her...It was actually the clique that was attacking me and they used that underhanded method to ignore me and never discuss my CORRECT evidence...The EF practices moderator abuse when it encounters researchers who correctly call out the clique and its corruption...
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The more you guys repeatedly post the same sh*t over and over, the more it becomes apparent why the Ed Forum imploded. STOP polluting THIS Forum.
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I forgot to mention I also put the correct interpretation of the Lunch Room Encounter together...
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I forgot to mention I also put the correct interpretation of the Lunch Room Encounter together...
I'll bet you have. :D
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It’s good there is still a fall back scenario of Oswald in the 2nd floor lunchroom or in the Domino room (where his blue jacket was found a month after the event) otherwise Oswald not seen at the time of the shooting could get really problematic.
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It’s good there is still a fall back scenario of Oswald in the 2nd floor lunchroom or in the Domino room (where his blue jacket was found a month after the event) otherwise Oswald not seen at the time of the shooting could get really problematic.
The Oswald "alibi" was planned. Officer Baker confronting Oswald was Not part of that planned alibi. It caused Oswald to hit the panic button. As a result, he fled the building.
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In his interview with Gil Toff in 1971 Jack Dougherty told Toff that he was alone in the Domino Room eating lunch while Oswald was up in the 2nd Floor Lunch room eating his lunch...
Truly helped destroy Dougherty's credibility by calling him retarded and defaming him as his supervisor and undermining his statements...
It seems obvious to me that the reason Truly did that is because Dougherty refused to go along with the framing of Oswald and told the truth that Oswald was up in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room in his interviews...And that was difficult to do damage control for by the conspirators and was resolved by destroying Dougherty's credibility...
Domino Room is out Zeon...And, if you recall, Lovelady said he looked in there before going out on the front steps with Shelley and Stanton...
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In his interview with Gil Toff in 1971 Jack Dougherty told Toff that he was alone in the Domino Room eating lunch while Oswald was up in the 2nd Floor Lunch room eating his lunch...
Truly helped destroy Dougherty's credibility by calling him retarded and defaming him as his supervisor and undermining his statements...
It seems obvious to me that the reason Truly did that is because Dougherty refused to go along with the framing of Oswald and told the truth that Oswald was up in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room in his interviews...And that was difficult to do damage control for by the conspirators and was resolved by destroying Dougherty's credibility...
Domino Room is out Zeon...And, if you recall, Lovelady said he looked in there before going out on the front steps with Shelley and Stanton...
"Bette Davis Eyes" ?
The Domino Room is on the TSBD 1st Floor. The Lunchroom is on the TSBD 2nd Floor. How would anyone inside the Domino Room know if someone was inside the Lunchroom?
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I would suspect that Dougherty is not telling the full story to Toff and that Dougherty saw Oswald in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room on his way upstairs or somehow knew - like perhaps seeing and talking to Oswald before Oswald went back up to the 2nd Floor Lunch Room...Something Truly, the Commission, and FBI had to do serious damage control over...