JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate => Topic started by: Fred Litwin on March 25, 2025, 11:35:56 AM
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In Search of the Oswald Operation, Part Two
Jefferson Morley believes that James Angleton lied during his HSCA testimony and that proves that Oswald was part of a counterintelligence operation. This is absolutely not true and Morley reads way too much into Angleton's testimony.
https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/in-search-of-the-oswald-operation-part-two (https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/in-search-of-the-oswald-operation-part-two)
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Another good one. With Morley gone wild, you are going to be busy Fred.
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Another good one. With Morley gone wild, you are going to be busy Fred.
Tracy: A couple of questions about your detailed and excellent timeline of Oswald.
(1) Edward Epstein wrote in "Legend" (pg. 97 in the Kindle version) that Oswald first applied for a hardship discharge in 1958 when at Atsugi and it was turned down. This was shortly after he was first court-martialled (April 11) for having the derringer that he accidentally shot himself with. Do you recall seeing anything about that earlier application?
(2) When Oswald was in the USSR, he was interviewed by a Soviet radio "journalist" for Radio Moscow. There was a rumor that Oswald had gone on a radio show in the USSR where he denounced the US, et cetera. Did you ever trace that down?
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Edward Epstein wrote in "Legend" (pg. 97 in the Kindle version) that Oswald first applied for a hardship discharge in 1958 when at Atsugi and it was turned down. This was shortly after he was first court-martialed (April 11) for having the derringer that he accidentally shot himself with. [emphasis added]
It's interesting to note that CIA's spy, GRU Lt. Col. Pyotr Popov, told his CIA handler (and probable KGB "mole") George Kisevalter in West Berlin in April of 1958 that he had recently overheard a drunken GRU Colonel brag that the Kremlin had all of the top-secret specifications of the U-2 spy plane.
Author John M. Newman's theory in his 2022 book, "Uncovering Popov's Mole," is that a KGB "mole" in the mole-hunting Office of Security, Bruce Leonard Solie (the guy who implausibly "cleared" KGB false defector Yuri Nosenko in 1968; look him up), had leaked those specs to the Soviets and then, knowing from the above that there would have to be a mole hunt, sent (or duped his confidant, protégé, and mole-hunting subordinate, James Angleton, into sending) U-2 radar operator Oswald to Moscow as an ostensible "dangle" in a (unbeknownst to Angleton and Oswald) planned-to-fail hunt for "Popov's U-2 Mole" (Solie) in the wrong part of the CIA. Newman claims as evidence of this the fact that none of the incoming non-CIA cables (e.g., from State and Navy) on LHO's defection were routed to where they should have gone -- the Soviet Russia Division -- but were routed instead to Solie's office in the OS -- the Security Research Staff -- where they disappeared into a "black hole" for at least six weeks . . . and one or two of them didn't resurface until after the assassination.
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Tracy: A couple of questions about your detailed and excellent timeline of Oswald.
(1) Edward Epstein wrote in "Legend" (pg. 97 in the Kindle version) that Oswald first applied for a hardship discharge in 1958 when at Atsugi and it was turned down. This was shortly after he was first court-martialled (April 11) for having the derringer that he accidentally shot himself with. Do you recall seeing anything about that earlier application?
(2) When Oswald was in the USSR, he was interviewed by a Soviet radio "journalist" for Radio Moscow. There was a rumor that Oswald had gone on a radio show in the USSR where he denounced the US, et cetera. Did you ever trace that down?
Nothing on number 1 Steve. Number 2, I have heard the same thing. Do you have any source on that? If so, I could use it as a footnote at least.
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Nothing on number 1 Steve. Number 2, I have heard the same thing. Do you have any source on that? If so, I could use it as a footnote at least.
Apologize to Fred for diverting this from his topic/subject. Maybe I'll start a thread but it's probably too obscure to do so.
On #1: Epstein gives no footnotes on it. It's a passing sentence.
On #2: It's the Setyaev interview, the Radio Moscow matter. You list it in the timeline.
Two quick points on it: When Oswald was on the ship returning home he wrote a series of imaginary questions and answers for the press that he expected to meet him. In answer to one question, "Did you make statements against the US there?" he wrote: "Yes, I made a recording for Radio Moscow which was broadcast the following Sunday in which I spoke about the beautiful capital of the Socialist work (sic) and all its progress." Epstein said he later revised the (draft) answer and said he only talked about the "interesting places" in Moscow that he visited.
In the FBI's Gemberling Report: Marina was interviewed on September 8, 1964 and they asked her a number of questions about this alleged radio broadcast.
Briefly: Marina said Oswald tried to contact Setyaev later and she asked why, who was this person? He replied that "He was a man who helped him make some money shortly after his arrival in Moscow by assisting him in a broadcast for Radio Moscow. Marina asked Oswald what he had said and he told her he had criticized the United States and said Russia was a better place in which to live."
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11941#relPageId=228
Epstein gives more details on this too. See his endnotes on the chapter.
As you stated, McMillan and others think it was the KGB sniffing Oswald out. There was no actual broadcast done of the interview. But Nosenko said he never knew about the matter and none of the KGB agents Mailer and his people interviewed (in "Oswald's Tale") mentioned it either. I would think the US would be have been monitoring Soviet radio and any interview with him discovered?
Best guess: a recorded interview did take place but it wasn't broadcast.
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Nosenko said he never knew about the matter . . .
Given the fact that Nosenko, as shown around 1964 true defector KGB Major Pyotr Deriabin (1954), wasn't even a KGB officer, it's not surprising that he said he never knew about the matter.
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Best guess: a recorded interview did take place but it wasn't broadcast.
I think you are right. I'll add more information on Lev S. and LHO to the timeline and I added you to the acknowledgements section in the preface-thanks.
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I think you are right. I'll add more information on Lev S. and LHO to the timeline and I added you to the acknowledgements section in the preface-thanks.
Sure, you are welcome. As McMillan concluded it was probably just the KGB checking Oswald out. Still, odd that Nosenko/Mailer's interviews didn't mention it though.
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Sure, you are welcome. As McMillan concluded it was probably just the KGB checking Oswald out. Still, odd that Nosenko/Mailer's interviews didn't mention it though.
Dear Steven,
Why in the world would anyone place any significance on something Yuri Nosenko did or did not say, other than to try to figure out who the KGB "moles" in the CIA and the FBI were that he was trying to protect (can you say "Bruce Leonard Solie," "Leonard V. McCoy," "George Kisevalter" and/or [fill in the blank]?).
Speaking of McMillan, it's interesting that her CIA contact in 1956 (in Frankfurt?) was a KGB "mole" by the name of U.S. Army Major Alexsander "Sasha" Sogolow, who just happened to be the boss of Golitsyn's mole "Sasha" (Igor Orlov, aka "Alexander "Sasha" Kopatzky").
Scroll down to page 4.
https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32272679.pdf
But I digress . . .
-- Tom
PS Sogolow confessed to being a "mole" several years later, but he was "played back" against the KGB and not prosecuted.
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Tracy: Peter Wronski (or Vronksy) had an entire section on Setyaev and this question at his now defunct website. If you use the Wayback machine you can read what he found. He interviewed Setyaev in Moscow in 1991 and was told that the tape was too political and of no interest to the "tourist-oriented" type of program Setyaev broadcast. Okay.
Also, Newman has more in his book "Oswald and the CIA." Including the rumor that Setyaev was working for the CIA. Of course.
More details here: https://web.archive.org/web/20030501052436/http://www.russianbooks.org/
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Tracy: Peter Wronski (or Vronksy) had an entire section on Setyaev and this question at his now defunct website. If you use the Wayback machine you can read what he found. He interviewed Setyaev in Moscow in 1991 and was told that the tape was too political and of no interest to the "tourist-oriented" type of program Setyaev broadcast. Okay.
Also, Newman has more in his book "Oswald and the CIA." Including the rumor that Setyaev was working for the CIA. Of course.
More details here: https://web.archive.org/web/20030501052436/http://www.russianbooks.org/
Not really relevant to this thread, but I corresponded with Vronsky several years ago because his excellent site (with many photos) of "Lee Harvey Oswald in Minsk" included photos of the "experimental shop" at the radio and TV factory where my wife's sister and her husband had worked. Vronsky said he had gone to Minsk with every expectation of making a documentary and blowing the WC out of the water. He came home, he said, thinking "the WC basically got it right."