JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate => Topic started by: Lance Payette on February 09, 2025, 12:50:43 PM
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Isn't the problem with JFKA research that there are just too many conspiracy theories? That's why I always eventually lose interest and go back to the Shroud of Turin or Roswell or some other area of weirdness. Jesus, I've heard enough about the Grassy Knoll, the Magic Bullet and whatnot.
CTers may be united against the "tinfoil-hat" crazies who hold the Lone Nut perspective (The Ed Forum folks keep insisting LNers should be banned because they either HAVE TO BE delusional or CIA plants!) but their own diverse theories are so diametrically opposed that they are impossible to square. The current Loudest Voices seem hell-bent force the highest-level LBJ/CIA/etc. theory down our throats. In the abstract, if I were to pick the most likely suspect, it would be The Mafia, pure and simple - which I believe is the view Larry Schnapf holds, and Pat Speer agreed when I suggested it. But The Mafia just isn't emotionally satisfying for the LBJ/CIA crowd. Then, of course, we have the theories that involve so many diverse players - LBJ, the CIA, the SS, the DPD and sure, even the Mafia - that the conspiracy had to involve hundreds of players. It gives the appearance of cranks - yes, even at the level of the Biggest Names - just flailing in all directions.
All the CT community is really interested in, it seems to me - apart from selling books and other varieties of hucksterism, of course - is in creating doubt about the LN scenario or even establishing Oswald's innocence (good luck with that). If I were a CTer with a genuine interest in changing the verdict of history, I would urge my fellow CTers to get their act together and focus on establishing a single, plausible, evidence-based theory. This may not be possible, but that would be the goal. Get back to me when you have one. I even had hopes for The Oswald Puzzle until the very end, then it went into la-la land.
You can't just keep reinventing Oswald, engaging in raw speculation that is so obviously agenda-driven, and expect the verdict of history to take you seriously. The fact that the media loves this sort of stuff (as Walter Cronkite said, "We don't run stories about the cats who don't get caught in trees and don't have to be rescued by firemen") or that "72% of the completely uninformed public thinks there was a conspiracy!" is totally irrelevant to the verdict of history.
No CTer is going to "solve" the JFKA. What is needed is simply a more plausible, evidence-based scenario - if there is one. Attempting to poke dubious holes in the LN narrative won't get you there.
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If you're looking for a Mr Big behind the curtain, he does Not exist. The recorded conversation between LBJ and J. Edgar proves there is no single Mr Big. You got LBJ, Hoover, CIA, Mafia. You wanna pull a coup? You gotta have the military sewed up. Otherwise, your new POTUS will be quickly 86'd. We saw this "military control" via General Milley + China with respect to the 2020 POTUS Election. That was a modern day coup. A "silent" coup so to say. Elon Musk and his SpaceX nerd birds ended that silent coup in 2024. This is why the current "effort" is aimed at destroying Musk. The problem with a silent coup is the "target" lives on. And, as we saw, this target can come back to haunt you.
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Isn't the problem with JFKA research that there are just too many conspiracy theories? That's why I always eventually lose interest and go back to the Shroud of Turin or Roswell or some other area of weirdness. Jesus, I've heard enough about the Grassy Knoll, the Magic Bullet and whatnot.
CTers may be united against the "tinfoil-hat" crazies who hold the Lone Nut perspective (The Ed Forum folks keep insisting LNers should be banned because they either HAVE TO BE delusional or CIA plants!) but their own diverse theories are so diametrically opposed that they are impossible to square. The current Loudest Voices seem hell-bent force the highest-level LBJ/CIA/etc. theory down our throats. In the abstract, if I were to pick the most likely suspect, it would be The Mafia, pure and simple - which I believe is the view Larry Schnapf holds, and Pat Speer agreed when I suggested it. But The Mafia just isn't emotionally satisfying for the LBJ/CIA crowd. Then, of course, we have the theories that involve so many diverse players - LBJ, the CIA, the SS, the DPD and sure, even the Mafia - that the conspiracy had to involve hundreds of players. It gives the appearance of cranks - yes, even at the level of the Biggest Names - just flailing in all directions.
All the CT community is really interested in, it seems to me - apart from selling books and other varieties of hucksterism, of course - is in creating doubt about the LN scenario or even establishing Oswald's innocence (good luck with that). If I were a CTer with a genuine interest in changing the verdict of history, I would urge my fellow CTers to get their act together and focus on establishing a single, plausible, evidence-based theory. This may not be possible, but that would be the goal. Get back to me when you have one. I even had hopes for The Oswald Puzzle until the very end, then it went into la-la land.
You can't just keep reinventing Oswald, engaging in raw speculation that is so obviously agenda-driven, and expect the verdict of history to take you seriously. The fact that the media loves this sort of stuff (as Walter Cronkite said, "We don't run stories about the cats who don't get caught in trees and don't have to be rescued by firemen") or that "72% of the completely uninformed public thinks there was a conspiracy!" is totally irrelevant to the verdict of history.
No CTer is going to "solve" the JFKA. What is needed is simply a more plausible, evidence-based scenario - if there is one. Attempting to poke dubious holes in the LN narrative won't get you there.
Me myself i am the only one on Earth that has nailed it. Read all of my postings.
I got a good start from mainly Howard Donahue, Bonar Menninger, Colin McLaren, & Max Holland.
I learnt lots of good stuff from many members & non-members of forums.
But for sure CTers appear to be professional plants (smart people karnt be that stupid).
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Me myself i am the only one on Earth that has nailed it. Read all of my postings.
I got a good start from mainly Howard Donahue, Bonar Menninger, Colin McLaren, & Max Holland.
I learnt lots of good stuff from many members & non-members of forums.
But for sure CTers appear to be professional plants (smart people karnt be that stupid).
You're so full of beans, I can smell you from here.
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In my estimation, Arlen Specter's single bullet theory, coupled with the rush to repair the damaged limousine and quickly exit Kennedy's body, says there was a conspiracy at the highest level...
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You're so full of beans, I can smell you from here.
I do not eat any carbs (no beans)(no veggies fruits nuts grains sugar starch fibre etc).
And no oils (not even olive or coconut).
I have been carnivore since Nov2023.
Eggs lamb sardines pepperoni (cheese some days), cream in my tea (glass of wine most days).
Wt went down from 80kg to today 72kg.
Belly is flat except for a handfull or two of fat.
I should excercise, i might go for walks, but not today.
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I do not eat any carbs (no beans)(no veggies fruits nuts grains sugar starch fibre etc).
And no oils (not even olive or coconut).
I have been carnivore since Nov2023.
Eggs lamb sardines pepperoni (cheese some days), cream in my tea (glass of wine most days).
Wt went down from 80kg to today 72kg.
Belly is flat except for a handfull or two of fat.
I should excercise, i might go for walks, but not today.
Well, I guess you're full of something else, then.
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Well, I guess you're full of something else, then.
MY 942 postings krapp on your 273 i bet.
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MY 942 postings krapp on your 273 i bet.
Tak, just quantitatively, not qualitatively.
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Tak, just quantitatively, not qualitatively.
I nailed what Oswald did, & what Hickey did.
Plus good stuff re Hoffman & many others.
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I nailed what Oswald did, & what Hickey did.
Plus good stuff re Hoffman & many others.
LOL!
Good one!
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I would urge my fellow CTers to get their act together and focus on establishing a single, plausible, evidence-based theory.
Why, when "history" has never established one either?
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The WC wrote 26 volumes trying to explain
their simple to understand /no conspiracy/ lone Kook theory.
So it’s no wonder that there is an even greater number of volumes written by CTs criticizing the “establishment” narrative.
The 1st sign of something not quite right was the very same day when the interrogation of Oswald began without an attorney present nor any recording device and or camera recording of Oswald’s statements.
It was then apparent that something was seriously amiss when Oswald was shot by Ruby in front of the camera.
It just kept going downhill from that point and the public just became ever more suspicious especially when Ruby made his famous camera speech and then Ruby died in the prison after getting an injection.
It was soon an avalanche of inquiry exposing all the flaws in the WC volumes over the next 60 years. That is why the majority opinion of the public remains that the WC lone kook theory is not the whole story.
Maybe the release of all remaining documents by the Trump admin will shed some new light that may resolve the issue once and for all.
But if history is any indication, most likely there will just be more anomalous stuff that complicates it even more.
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The CTer "mind" can rarely entertain the concept of a single narrative. Those that do are easily exposed as the most deranged (body alterations, faked JFK death, SS agent accidental shooting). As a result, there often is no specific theory much less any agreed upon theory. There is simply a morass of information selectively nitpicked that lends itself to countless possibilities. Many cannot even concede that they are CTers because they refuse to acknowledge the consequences of their own doubts about Oswald's guilt having any validity. If not Oswald, then who or what? They don't care. They go into hysterics if asked to explain what they think happened if, for example, Oswald didn't own and possess the rifle found on the 6th floor. How did it get there, who possessed it etc.? What evidence exists to support these counter possibilities? There's no interest in addressing those issues that arise by direct implication if their concerns with "chain of evidence" or other nonsense have any validity. The most defensible CTer position is not to take one due the lack of supporting evidence and absurdity of any specific theory in the context of the known facts and evidence. Instead, it's just an endless defense attorney game to suggest false doubt. Repeated endlessly.
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The CTer "mind" can rarely entertain the concept of a single narrative. Those that do are easily exposed as the most deranged (body alterations, faked JFK death, SS agent accidental shooting). As a result, there often is no specific theory much less any agreed upon theory. There is simply a morass of information selectively nitpicked that lends itself to countless possibilities. Many cannot even concede that they are CTers because they refuse to acknowledge the consequences of their own doubts about Oswald's guilt having any validity. If not Oswald, then who or what? They don't care. They go into hysterics if asked to explain what they think happened if, for example, Oswald didn't own and possess the rifle found on the 6th floor. How did it get there, who possessed it etc.? What evidence exists to support these counter possibilities? There's no interest in addressing those issues that arise by direct implication if their concerns with "chain of evidence" or other nonsense have any validity. The most defensible CTer position is not to take one due the lack of supporting evidence and absurdity of any specific theory in the context of the known facts and evidence. Instead, it's just an endless defense attorney game to suggest false doubt. Repeated endlessly.
One would think that after 60+ years of this that the conspiracy explanation would narrow, be more streamlined, coalesce or converge around a single explanation. It only happened one way and after all of their work that one explanation, or something approximating it, should have been discovered and agreed to. "We agree of this and this but throw out that" sort of process.
That hasn't happened. Instead the reverse has taken place: we've seen their Rube Goldberg explanation become more complex and convoluted with more bells and whistles and more elements added over time. Nothing is thrown away; everything is added somewhere. It's no longer a single machine with a few elements but multiple ones with a dizzying array of parts and elements. It all collapses on its own inconsistencies. As in: the media has covered up what happened, i.e., Operation Mockingb**d and all that. But the same media exposed the abuses of the CIA and FBI. The "Family Jewels". So the media has both exposed the conspiracies and covered them up. Seymour Hersh said that when he told Oliver Stone that his theory was preposterous that Stone replied, "I always knew you were CIA." So Hersh is both the person who exposed the abuses of the CIA but is also covering them up. Whew.
The problem is that people simply can't believe that Oswald could change history so much. There has to be more. So the conspiracy arguments - as illogical and inconsistent as they are - satisfy that need, that desire for a greater explanation of events. All we have is some crank with a rifle. Which is more appealing?
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One would think that after 60+ years of this that the conspiracy explanation would narrow, be more streamlined, coalesce or converge around a single explanation. It only happened one way and after all of their work that one explanation, or something approximating it, should have been discovered and agreed to. "We agree of this and this but throw out that" sort of process.
That hasn't happened. Instead the reverse has taken place: we've seen their Rube Goldberg explanation become more complex and convoluted with more bells and whistles and more elements added over time. Nothing is thrown away; everything is added somewhere. It's no longer a single machine with a few elements but multiple ones with a dizzying array of parts and elements. It all collapses on its own inconsistencies. As in: the media has covered up what happened, i.e., Operation Mockinghttps://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2006.0.html But the same media exposed the abuses of the CIA and FBI. The "Family Jewels". So the media has both exposed the conspiracies and covered them up. Seymour Hersh said that when he told Oliver Stone that his theory was preposterous that Stone replied, "I always knew you were CIA." So Hersh is both the person who exposed the abuses of the CIA but is also covering them up. Whew.
The problem is that people simply can't believe that Oswald could change history so much. There has to be more. So the conspiracy arguments - as illogical and inconsistent as they are - satisfy that need, that desire for a greater explanation of events. All we have is some crank with a rifle. Which is more appealing?
The CTer "mind" does not operate in a linear manner. They play an endless Kevin Bacon game with information. This arises out of necessity because the facts and circumstances don't lend themselves to their desired outcome. They have some subconscious understanding of this. The conspiracy itself is conjured up to explain away why they can't prove that someone other than Oswald was involved. A Catch-22 of insanity. The conspiracy precludes proof of a conspiracy.
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Too many coincidences beyond what is statistically probable compels the skeptic to question the orthodox narrative of an isolated incident theory. Ie: Nothing to see here, it was simply an act by a single person completely independent of the various persons he had contact with preceding the event.
So although it’s not impossible that Oswald could be a lone kook who for whatever reason felt compelled to shoot JFK, the amazing variety of persons that Oswald had contact with , characters like Jack Ruby and George DeMorenshield, or Guy Bannister, or in a photo with identifiable Alpha 66 BOP operatives, makes it extremely difficult to accept Oswald was just an isolated nut.
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This is how CTers get enlightenment. Watching movies!!!
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Isn't the problem with JFKA research that there are just too many conspiracy theories?
I don't suppose the world-class humanitarian organization formerly known as the KGB* had, or still has, anything to do with the creation and/or promulgation of oodles and gobs of nation-rending JFKA CTs over the past sixty-one years.
(Sarcasm.)
*Today's SVR and FSB
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The CTer "mind" can rarely entertain the concept of a single narrative. Those that do are easily exposed as the most deranged (body alterations, faked JFK death, SS agent accidental shooting). As a result, there often is no specific theory much less any agreed upon theory.
Marching in lockstep around a made-up and mythological narrative like religious zealots is not a virtue.