JFK Assassination Forum

The JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Duncan MacRae on September 12, 2024, 09:11:13 PM

Title: Prayer Woman Clearer 6th Floor Museum Image
Post by: Duncan MacRae on September 12, 2024, 09:11:13 PM
Still not clear enough, but I still say It's A Woman  :)

Reference Link To DVP's JFK Archives
http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2015/09/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-1031.html (http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2015/09/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-1031.html)

Cropped Frames From 6th Floor Museum Copy Of The Darnell Film
(https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Slowpm.gif)
(https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Prayerman3.gif)
(https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Prayerman.gif)



Title: Re: Prayer Woman Clearer 6th Floor Museum Image
Post by: Duncan MacRae on September 13, 2024, 09:32:48 AM
For the Record:

Pat Speer and Robin Unger were first to suggest PM was a Woman
Duncan MacRae revived and further studied the Speer/Unger observation years later, confirming speculatively that it was a Woman.
Apart from a funny uneducated interview with one of Sarah Stanton's relatives, an unstable Narcissistic Visitor from an unknown Planet in another Universe,
ie, the Goofy Spotty Faced Research Thief Brian Doyle, discovered absolutely Nothing.  :D
Title: Re: Prayer Woman Clearer 6th Floor Museum Image
Post by: Charles Collins on September 13, 2024, 12:02:35 PM
It appears to me to be a stowaway from Stephen King’s Time Machine (in 11/22/63). I say that because he/she is obviously looking at an iPhone while the crime of the century is taking place right in front of him/her. Perhaps he/she is in contact with Stephen King via FaceTime and saying OMG!   ;)

Seriously, it looks like a woman to me. The only question in my mind is the hair. And it could be short or put up on top or just blends in with the background. Thanks for the great image!
Title: Re: Prayer Woman Clearer 6th Floor Museum Image
Post by: Royell Storing on September 13, 2024, 02:10:01 PM
Really? This explains why a lot of you mistakenly believe the Nix Film shows a "Brown" cardigan wearing man beginning to move Up-The-Steps or on Willis 5 we are seeing 3 Guys standing on the lower portion of The Steps. Your source material is inadequate/out of date.

With regard to PM,  "NBC 5 Archive Collection | Assassination Aftermath in Dealey Plaza | Darnell Film" by Sixth Floor Museum.
Go to 0:04, and Blow it up/Expand the still frame(s). You will enjoy a much better/clearer view of this "person" in question.
The remainder of this 0:44 snippet of the Darnell Film is also relatively extremely clear vs the "stuff" previously available for examination by the general public.   

Title: Re: Prayer Woman Clearer 6th Floor Museum Image
Post by: Duncan MacRae on September 13, 2024, 03:01:25 PM
Slowed down slightly.
(https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/RRR.gif)
Title: Re: Prayer Woman Clearer 6th Floor Museum Image
Post by: Royell Storing on September 13, 2024, 04:21:44 PM
  Thanks for posting the YOU TUBE, "NBC 5 Archive Collection | Assassination Aftermath in Dealey Plaza | Darnell Film". 
  At the 0:07 - 0:08 portion of this Darnell Snippet, we see a man on the Left holding a camera up close to his face. It looks like he is filming or snapping photos.  Knowing that: (1) DARNELL is filming this man on his Left, (2) WIEGMAN is already physically on The Knoll, and (3) Couch is Seated INSIDE Camera Car #3, just who is this man? This man is physically on the street, generally on the South Side of Elm St. and he appears to be filming almost straight down Elm St toward the rear end of Camera Car #1 as it travels toward the Stemmons Sign/Wiegman/Light Pole. Who is this man? Where are the images he appears to be capturing? 
Title: Re: Prayer Woman Clearer 6th Floor Museum Image
Post by: Duncan MacRae on September 13, 2024, 09:16:48 PM
 ??? There She Is.

(https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Prayerwomanglass.gif)
Title: Re: Prayer Woman Clearer 6th Floor Museum Image
Post by: Charles Collins on September 13, 2024, 10:06:35 PM
Quote from: Duncan MacRae on September 13, 2024, 09:16:48 PM
??? There She Is.

(https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Prayerwomanglass.gif)


I agree!
Title: Re: Prayer Woman Clearer 6th Floor Museum Image
Post by: Duncan MacRae on September 13, 2024, 10:33:06 PM
Quote from: Charles Collins on September 13, 2024, 10:06:35 PM
I agree!

 Thumb1:
(https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/PMCOMP.jpg)
Title: Re: Prayer Woman Clearer 6th Floor Museum Image
Post by: Royell Storing on September 13, 2024, 10:52:39 PM
Quote from: Duncan MacRae on September 13, 2024, 09:16:48 PM
??? There She Is.

(https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Prayerwomanglass.gif)

Nope! The shoulders and upper body are wider on the Darnell PM.

(https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/PMCOMP.jpg)
Title: Re: Prayer Woman Clearer 6th Floor Museum Image
Post by: Denis Morissette on September 14, 2024, 05:29:44 AM
The lady in the Phillis photo: I posted the image of the lady 2 or 3 years ago. The quality was not nearly as good as this one, though. Thanks for this enhanced image.
Title: Re: Prayer Woman Clearer 6th Floor Museum Image
Post by: Duncan MacRae on September 14, 2024, 08:31:16 AM
A New Observation?  ???

The Lady in the Phil Willis Photograph appears to be wearing a long Working Overcoat and beneath the Overcoat, Trousers/Pants over her Legs. 

https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/PMCOMP.jpg

(https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Willis21crop.jpg)(https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/PMCOMP.jpg)
Title: Re: Prayer Woman Clearer 6th Floor Museum Image
Post by: Royell Storing on September 14, 2024, 02:18:35 PM
  Come on people! 2 completely different upper body compositions here. The possibility of pants also underscores the different Fashion thought process, (or not), being displayed by both.
Title: Re: Prayer Woman Clearer 6th Floor Museum Image
Post by: David Von Pein on September 14, 2024, 11:05:41 PM
Quote from: Royell Storing on September 13, 2024, 10:52:39 PM
Nope! The shoulders and upper body are wider on the Darnell PM.

How can you possibly come to a definitive conclusion like that when we can't even see the entire width of the woman in the Willis photo? Her left shoulder is being partially blocked by a policeman, and it looks like at least a little bit of her right shoulder is being blocked by the lady standing on the far left of the picture.

So how do you know how wide her shoulders are?

(https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/PMCOMP.jpg)
Title: Re: Prayer Woman Clearer 6th Floor Museum Image
Post by: Royell Storing on September 15, 2024, 02:19:11 AM
Quote from: David Von Pein on September 14, 2024, 11:05:41 PM
How can you possibly come to a definitive conclusion like that when we can't even see the entire width of the woman in the Willis photo? Her left shoulder is being partially blocked by a policeman, and it looks like at least a little bit of her right shoulder is being blocked by the lady standing on the far left of the picture.

So how do you know how wide her shoulders are?

(https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/PMCOMP.jpg)

    (1) The woman (R) in the B/W Darnell Still Frame has Thick/Wide arms from the shoulder all the way down to the wrist. She also is working on a Double Chin. This is Not uncommon with older women. Especially in The South. She is an older woman with a Long Face. Stan Laurel like.

    (2)  The woman (L) has much thinner arm/wrist, slender neck (in comparison), Short Chin, and her face is round. She is Younger.
Title: Re: Prayer Woman Clearer 6th Floor Museum Image
Post by: David Von Pein on September 15, 2024, 04:23:11 AM
Royell has now decided to change the subject, as he totally abandons the "Shoulders Are Too Wide" theory. (Probably because, as I mentioned before, he can't possibly prove any such thing, since the lady's entire shoulder span can't even be seen.)
Title: Re: Prayer Woman Clearer 6th Floor Museum Image
Post by: Royell Storing on September 15, 2024, 06:51:25 AM
 I'm just telling you what I see with regard to these 2 figures. To my eye, the 2 figures are Not remotely close to being the same person. If you see something different, tell the Forum what You see. I am interested in that TSBD area due to Lovelady and Shelley giving WC Testimony of watching the motorcade from the TSBD landing area. That landing on 11/22/63 was shallow.
  The corroborating WC Testimonies of Lovelady and Shelley sets the timeline of when they both saw Officer Baker moving toward the TSBD. Baker's WC testimony directly contradicts that specific portion of the Lovelady and Shelley testimony. The timelines supplied by Shelley and Lovelady are frequently used to discredit the WC testimony of Victoria Adams and her own timeline relative to how long after the kill shot she went down the TSBD stairwell. Images of the physical positions of Lovelady and Shelley inside Dealey Plaza are critical to corroborating their WC Testimony. I also believe the testimonies and any recollections of Lovelady and Shelley are critical, as they are the only people to have ENTERED the Elm St Ext Dock and then walked all the way back into the TSBD 1st Floor shortly after the kill shot. They did Not use the TSBD front door to access the TSBD 1st floor. The path they traveled to enter the TSBD 1st floor is unique.     
Title: Re: Prayer Woman Clearer 6th Floor Museum Image
Post by: Robin Unger on September 15, 2024, 04:18:38 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/F8n7xfn.png)
Title: Re: Prayer Woman Clearer 6th Floor Museum Image
Post by: Robin Unger on September 15, 2024, 04:29:14 PM
Allen similar Timeline
(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/mURI_temp_ffd872dd.jpg)
Title: Re: Prayer Woman Clearer 6th Floor Museum Image
Post by: Robin Unger on September 15, 2024, 04:49:32 PM
Skaggs similar Timeline.

(https://i.imgur.com/Xp5Sidk.png)
Title: Re: Prayer Woman Clearer 6th Floor Museum Image
Post by: Royell Storing on September 15, 2024, 05:21:59 PM
Quote from: Duncan MacRae on September 13, 2024, 10:33:06 PM
Thumb1:
(https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/PMCOMP.jpg)

   This is without question the Best Comparison. This is Not the same person. These 2 women would Never possibly be mistaken as even being sisters. 
Title: Re: Prayer Woman Clearer 6th Floor Museum Image
Post by: David Von Pein on September 16, 2024, 11:14:10 PM
JFK researcher Denis Morissette has had recent contact with The Sixth Floor Museum At Dealey Plaza concerning the Darnell film.

Here's the information Denis received....

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/30791-news-about-the-darnell-film/?do=findComment&comment=547570

(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhw82GNV6c_Bs1GAwEOiiOO-e_woAXr5THE-5EuoVZbgbY1uegwCHlJitFfmFxlxRCoqlNM64JjUilfY0tIu5KSPWHE-znxFBsqjkOFpauvi7k5brM27KV6uBIfl6w2iC5Ef5ra1J3hXt0gnL9qsmS-5qam5TMDnPNKit3HvEIqnXJOmlwmPXcceJBDXyE/s850/Sixth-Floor-Museum-Statement-Regarding-Darnell-Film.png)
Title: Re: Prayer Woman Clearer 6th Floor Museum Image
Post by: Denis Morissette on September 16, 2024, 11:16:50 PM
Stephen Faggin confirmed to me today that the 6FM doesn’t have the original film. What the YouTube video is the copy they had in 2006. They don’t know where it is either.
Title: Re: Prayer Woman Clearer 6th Floor Museum Image
Post by: Royell Storing on September 17, 2024, 01:28:02 AM

  What is currently airing on You Tube is NOT, " the Darnell film". It is a "PORTION/PIECE" of the Darnell Film. That Darnell Portion is missing the entire train yard/Roger Craig snippet that also includes the "No Glove Cop" that I have proven was erroneously ID'd as being Officer Haygood. We are also Missing the Sitzman Interview that I believe revealed Gordon Arnold's "No Hat Cop" in the background. And, we are missing the short snippet showing the area between the N-S Picket Fence and the short wall running down from the shelter. Both the train yard and the area between the Picket Fence and the Short Wall have few 11/22/63 images.
  I continue asking for Anyone to ID the guy wearing a hat and having a camera to his face at the corner of Elm/Houston filmed by Darnell at the beginning of his Film.
       
Title: Re: Prayer Woman Clearer 6th Floor Museum Image
Post by: Robin Unger on September 17, 2024, 06:49:42 AM
Darnell GIF

(https://i.imgur.com/KdrzmHM.gif)
Title: Re: Prayer Woman Clearer 6th Floor Museum Image
Post by: Robin Unger on September 17, 2024, 07:10:09 AM
(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/20130908-003704.jpg)
Title: Re: Prayer Woman Clearer 6th Floor Museum Image
Post by: Robin Unger on September 17, 2024, 07:30:39 AM
(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/Darnell_Large_gif_snapshot_001.jpg)
Title: Re: Prayer Woman Clearer 6th Floor Museum Image
Post by: Robin Unger on September 17, 2024, 07:40:15 AM
(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/Darnell_Large_gif_snapshot_004.jpg)
Title: Re: Prayer Woman Clearer 6th Floor Museum Image
Post by: Charles Collins on September 17, 2024, 11:03:27 AM
Quote from: Robin Unger on September 17, 2024, 06:49:42 AM
Darnell GIF

(https://i.imgur.com/KdrzmHM.gif)

It appears to me that he isn’t actually filming. Rather, he appears to be looking around for something to film. Just guessing, but could that be Alyea before he entered the TSBD building? On second thought, that may be too early in time for him to get to that place. But we do see his face as he looks toward the camera. Maybe someone can compare his appearance with other images of the known cameramen in Dealey Plaza at that time.
Title: Re: Prayer Woman Clearer 6th Floor Museum Image
Post by: Royell Storing on September 17, 2024, 02:04:59 PM
   Robin - Thanks but those images are Not the snippet of a, "Hat? Wearing guy with a camera pressed to his face", that I was referring to. The segment I referred to occurs when Darnell pans to his left and he also then captures the 2 Press Busses on Houston Street. This portion of the snippet begins at 0:07. It only runs for roughly 1 second.  Wiegman was supposed to be the only on-the-ground cameraman wearing a Hat immediately following the kill shot. The Camera + His Hat is routinely used to ID Wiegman immediately following the assassination there inside Dealey Plaza. The mystery cameraman + hat? adds a 2nd cameraman fitting Wiegman's general appearance. And of course, this Mystery Camera Guy appears to have his camera aimed in the general direction of The Knoll, Stemmons Sign, Zapruder Perch, etc. Those possible images at that very early stage following the assassination could be very revealing.
Title: Re: Prayer Woman Clearer 6th Floor Museum Image
Post by: Robin Unger on September 20, 2024, 05:14:02 AM
This thread has been side tracked from "Prayer Woman" to "Haygood" ?
The Haygood "Car Park" discussion should be on a separate thread.
Continue the Haygood "Car Park" discussion on the thread at the link below.
All Relevant Text discussion from this thread has been transferred to the new thread.

https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,4083.0.html
Title: Re: Prayer Woman Clearer 6th Floor Museum Image
Post by: Dan O'meara on September 23, 2024, 11:23:18 PM
Quote from: Duncan MacRae on September 13, 2024, 09:16:48 PM
??? There She Is.

(https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Prayerwomanglass.gif)

The similarity is based on the arm position which appears to be holding something bright.
Personally, it looks to me like the arm of the woman in the white coat/dress reaching for the handle of the open front door. The woman you believe the arm belongs to is actually stood inside the lobby, but it's not her arm.
Look at the pic more closely and you'll see the angle is all wrong. Her upper arm would be unrealistically long.
The pic Robin posted shows the position of the door handle on the open front door.

I don't think this is the same woman as Prayer Woman.
Title: Re: Prayer Woman Clearer 6th Floor Museum Image
Post by: Robin Unger on September 24, 2024, 11:10:00 AM
Yes, the glass door has a shiny chrome grab rail.

(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/TSBD.jpg)

(https://content.invisioncic.com/r16296/monthly_2024_09/90138648-B3E3-40D3-9256-65A025C584AA.jpeg.f6b138e75b9c2d7c83f8f63fa3bab8b9.jpeg)

(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/mURI_temp_ffd872dd.jpg)
Title: Re: Prayer Woman Clearer 6th Floor Museum Image
Post by: Duncan MacRae on September 24, 2024, 06:39:23 PM
(http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Williswoman.png)(https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Prayerman.gif)
Title: Re: Prayer Woman Clearer 6th Floor Museum Image
Post by: Robin Unger on September 25, 2024, 12:27:50 AM
Darnell GIF

(https://i.imgur.com/3T0Yi8h.gif)
Title: Re: Prayer Woman Clearer 6th Floor Museum Image
Post by: Robin Unger on September 25, 2024, 01:37:24 AM
(https://content.invisioncic.com/r16296/monthly_2018_03/Imaged4.jpg.30b170bc916d8e2e708385e8208284e1.jpg)
Title: Re: Prayer Woman Clearer 6th Floor Museum Image
Post by: Royell Storing on October 07, 2025, 06:50:41 PM
Quote from: David Von Pein on September 16, 2024, 11:14:10 PM
JFK researcher Denis Morissette has had recent contact with The Sixth Floor Museum At Dealey Plaza concerning the Darnell film.

Here's the information Denis received....

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/30791-news-about-the-darnell-film/?do=findComment&comment=547570

(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhw82GNV6c_Bs1GAwEOiiOO-e_woAXr5THE-5EuoVZbgbY1uegwCHlJitFfmFxlxRCoqlNM64JjUilfY0tIu5KSPWHE-znxFBsqjkOFpauvi7k5brM27KV6uBIfl6w2iC5Ef5ra1J3hXt0gnL9qsmS-5qam5TMDnPNKit3HvEIqnXJOmlwmPXcceJBDXyE/s850/Sixth-Floor-Museum-Statement-Regarding-Darnell-Film.png)

   Thanks for posting this letter. So, when is the Sixth Floor Museum going to post the remainder of their 1st generation copy of the Darnell Film? We are now over 1 yr out from that opening Darnell piece being posted by the Sixth Floor Museum. The yet to be posted remainder of the Darnell film includes that snippet showing the "No Glove Cop" conducting crowd control in the railroad yard. That's the same "No Glove Cop" that I believe has been Mis-ID'd as being Officer Haygood for 61+ years. And everybody knows there were No DPD Motorcycle Cops conducting Crowd Control back inside the railroad yard at this point in time. None! I bring this up now as this also impacts another JFK Assassination "issue" I am currently having peer reviewed. As I said on another thread also involving the Sixth Floor Museum, "Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown".    ............   STAY TUNED   ................... 
Title: Re: Prayer Woman Clearer 6th Floor Museum Image
Post by: Tommy Shanks on October 07, 2025, 11:01:23 PM
Royell Storing thinks he has uncovered a fake cop pretending to direct traffic in the railroad yard. Folks, does the amateur anomaly spotting EVER, EVER end?
Title: Re: Prayer Woman Clearer 6th Floor Museum Image
Post by: Tom Graves on October 08, 2025, 12:00:17 AM
Quote from: Tommy Shanks on October 07, 2025, 11:01:23 PM
Royell Storing thinks he has uncovered a fake cop pretending to direct traffic in the railroad yard. Folks, does the amateur anomaly spotting EVER, EVER end?

I was wondering what kind of garbage he was going to hit us with.

Thanks for the heads up.
Title: Re: Prayer Woman Clearer 6th Floor Museum Image
Post by: Royell Storing on June 01, 2026, 06:58:50 PM
Quote from: Duncan MacRae on September 12, 2024, 09:11:13 PM
Still not clear enough, but I still say It's A Woman  :)

Reference Link To DVP's JFK Archives
http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2015/09/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-1031.html (http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2015/09/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-1031.html)

Cropped Frames From 6th Floor Museum Copy Of The Darnell Film
(https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Slowpm.gif)
(https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Prayerman3.gif)
(https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Prayerman.gif)

    This balding man showing a massive amount of forehead is Lovelady. No question. This means Lovelady can Not be one of the "2 Guys" walking away from the "getaway" car. So exactly Who are those guys? And where did they come from? The came from inside the "getaway" car
Title: Re: Prayer Woman Clearer 6th Floor Museum Image
Post by: John Corbett on June 01, 2026, 09:47:10 PM
Quote from: Royell Storing on June 01, 2026, 06:58:50 PM
    This balding man showing a massive amount of forehead is Lovelady. No question. This means Lovelady can Not be one of the "2 Guys" walking away from the "getaway" car. So exactly Who are those guys? And where did they come from? The came from inside the "getaway" car

You really do have a problem with basic logic. Just because you don't know the answer to a question does not mean that the only answer you can think of is the correct one.
Title: Re: Prayer Woman Clearer 6th Floor Museum Image
Post by: Royell Storing on June 01, 2026, 10:30:05 PM
Quote from: John Corbett on June 01, 2026, 09:47:10 PM
You really do have a problem with basic logic. Just because you don't know the answer to a question does not mean that the only answer you can think of is the correct one.

   Are YOU claiming the balding guy standing on the TSBD steps is Not Lovelady? If so, say so. 
   This is pretty clear, especially when considering where Lovelady was standing on Altgens 6. Lovelady is NOT 1 of the "2 Guys" moving away from the "getaway" car on the Couch and Darnell Films.   
Title: Re: Prayer Woman Clearer 6th Floor Museum Image
Post by: Zeon Mason on June 01, 2026, 10:51:24 PM
Quote from: Royell Storing on June 01, 2026, 10:30:05 PM
   Are YOU claiming the balding guy standing on the TSBD steps is Not Lovelady? If so, say so. 
   This is pretty clear, especially when considering where Lovelady was standing on Altgens 6. Lovelady is NOT 1 of the "2 Guys" moving away from the "getaway" car on the Couch and Darnell Films.

Except… Altgens 6 photo at Z255 was taken 30 seconds BEFORE the Darnell film started recording Baker ( it’s 25 seconds POST shots )
Title: Re: Prayer Woman Clearer 6th Floor Museum Image
Post by: Royell Storing on June 02, 2026, 12:22:12 AM
Quote from: Zeon Mason on June 01, 2026, 10:51:24 PM
Except… Altgens 6 photo at Z255 was taken 30 seconds BEFORE the Darnell film started recording Baker ( it’s 25 seconds POST shots )

   So, are YOU claiming that is Not Lovelady?