JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate => Topic started by: Charles Collins on March 30, 2024, 07:58:51 PM
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I looked for an 11/22/63 affidavit by Charles Brehm. But so far, all I have found is an FBI report taken on 11/24/63. In “No More Silence” by Larry Sneed, Charles says that he and his son were put in a police car in front of the TSBD, shortly after the assassination, and taken to the police station for questioning. It sure seems to me that the police would have made a report and hopefully taken an affidavit from Charles Brehm. I have seen a video on YouTube that appears to be Charles Brehm in a police station shortly after the assassination being interviewed. In the video, Charles indicates only two shots. Yet, two days later in the FBI report Charles indicates three shots (with the third shot missing everything) after the shot that hit JFK’s head. So, I am wondering where (if there is one) Charles’ 11/22/63 affidavit can be found.
This thread might be a good place to post links to all the known items pertaining to Charles Brehm.
Here is a link to his FBI report from 11/24/63:
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/brehm.htm (https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/brehm.htm)
Here is a link to the YouTube video of Charles Brehm I discussed above:
Here is a link to the book “No More Silence” by Larry Sneed (which includes a chapter on Charles Brehm):
https://untpress.unt.edu/catalog/sneed-no-more-silence/ (https://untpress.unt.edu/catalog/sneed-no-more-silence/)
If you have any more information regarding Charles Brehm (especially any 11/22/63 affidavit, etc), feel free to post it. I can add links, etc to the above list as needed.
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Charles Brehm is mentioned in this interview with Mark Lane:
"Playboy Interview: Mark Lane." Playboy: February 1967. pp. 45 & 47:
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/White%20Materials/White%20Magazines%20And%20Articles/Playboy%20Interview%20of%20Mark%20Lane/Item%2001.pdf
Internet Archive: https://web.archive.org/web/20240331152035/http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/White%20Materials/White%20Magazines%20And%20Articles/Playboy%20Interview%20of%20Mark%20Lane/Item%2001.pdf
Charles Brehm interview with The Free Lance-Star:
Eyewitness Satisfied With Warren Report. The Free Lance-Star. VOL. 82, NO. 275. 22 November 1966. p. 1:
https://web.archive.org/web/20240331153240/https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=PeBNAAAAIBAJ&sjid=DIsDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4851%2C5611369
Internet Archive: https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=PeBNAAAAIBAJ&sjid=DIsDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4851%2C5611369
Thanks!
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Charles: A list of the Dallas Police records on the assassination can be found here: https://dallascityhall.com/government/citysecretary/archives/Pages/Archives_1991-001.aspx
If you download that list you can see that the affidavits would be in Boxes 2, 3 and 5. But going through them I can't find an affidavit from Brehm. I would think if one existed if would be there. They have many of the other affidavits.
A pdf file (it's 282 pages) that is easier to search is here: https://www.drivehq.com/file/DFPublishFile.aspx/FileID11144483625/Keykd7k0u52fu92/1991-001 Consolidated line-item inventory.pdf
You can also do a search here: https://texashistory.unt.edu/ That has links to a number of photos of Brehm but no mention of any affidavit. My guess is that if one was done it was lost. Brehm was interviewed by the police but I can't find any record/notes of that either.
My guess is one doesn't exist.
Side bar: It's puzzling why so many people on Elm Street near the third shot/grassy knoll area said they heard two shots. It seems the people closer to the building, up from Elm near the turn off Houston, were the main three shots witnesses. Merriman Smith, Bell, Pierce Allman.
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There are pictures and footage of Buddy Walthers escorting Brehm and Amos Euins to the Sheriff's department to have their affidavits taken.
Bill Decker's report contains all the affidavits taken that day. They start on page 467 and are in alphabetical order.
Euin's affidavit is in there but nothing for Brehm.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh19/pdf/WH19_Decker_Ex_5323.pdf
It's weird one.
Brehm seemed determined to tell everyone about what he'd seen. Pat Speer records half a dozen interviews he did with various reporters and newsmen.
It's very difficult to imagine he didn't give an affidavit that day but it would appear he didn't as there is no record of one.
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Thanks for the replies guys.
It is obvious that Brehm was taken to the sheriff’s office. Here is a snip from “No More Silence” by Larry Sneed:
From there I was taken over to the jail and kept for a couple of hours so I could answer their questions.
It does appear that Brehm was questioned by the authorities. I cannot imagine that they would have questioned Brehm and not have made a record of it. So, although it is hard to accept, maybe it did get lost in the confusion.
I think it would be interesting to see what he told them. Especially since in the video (apparently taken shortly after the assassination) he indicated only two shots; but he indicated three shots in the subsequent FBI interview. However, he seems sure about the third missed shot in the Larry Sneed interview. Yet, he says this to Larry Sneed:
At this time, I might say that I did not stand there, basically, and count shots. There were events that were accompanied by shots, and the events are lodged in my mind more so than the shots because of the President’s motion when he was hit, with the shot in the head and the wild shot that was going away from the place; everything that stands out in my mind was a consequence of the shots. I never thought of them as, “There was a shot! What did it do?” It was always, “What happened?” and it was because of the shot fired from up there.
I think that the fact that Brehm relates events (ie: JFK’s reactions) to each shot makes Brehm’s memory appear, at least to me, to be credible. We will probably never know for sure all the details that we want to know. But I think Brehm is a witness that had an excellent vantage spot; and, due to his war time battle experiences, he knew some aspects of gunfire that most people will never know, so his account should be given considerable weight. I sure would like to see what he told the authorities on 11/22/63.
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The Stemmons Freeway sign obstructs the view from Zapruder’s camera for about 1-second. When JFK emerges from behind the sign it appears that he is reacting to being shot. So JFK’s exact position when the bullet struck him in the back base of the neck cannot be seen in the Zapruder film. I think that Brehm should have had a good vantage point to see JFK during the time he is obstructed from Zapruder’s camera by the Stemmons sign. And sure enough, Brehm indicates he did when he says JFK was leaning forward when struck. Here’s a snip from the FBI report which I bolded and underlined for emphasis:
Here’s a snip from Brehm’s account on 11/24/63 as indicated in the FBI report:
After the President's automobile had rounded the corner into Houston Street, he picked up his five-year-old son and ran across the grass from Main Street over to the downhill curved portion of Elm Street which leads from Houston Street to the Stemmons Expressway. He and his son stood right at the curb on the grass and saw the President's car take a wide swing as it turned left from Houston Street into Elm Street.
When the President's automobile was very close to him and he could see the President's face very well, the President was seated, but was leaning forward when he stiffened perceptibly at the same instant what appeared to be a rifle shot sounded. According to BREHM, the President seemed do to stiffen and come to a pause when another shot sounded and the President appeared to be badly hit in the head. BREHM said when the President was hit by the second shot, he could notice the President's hair fly up, and then roll over to his side, as Mrs. KENNEDY was apparently pulling him in that direction.
BREHM said that a third shot followed and that all three shots were relatively close together. BREHM stated that he was in military service and he has had experience with bolt-action rifles, and he expressed the opinion that the three shots were fired just about as quickly as an individual can maneuver a bolt-action rifle, take aim, and fire three shots.
I think it is remarkable that Brehm provided these details shortly after the assassination (before the WC provided this type of detail in their report, or even existed). It is difficult for me to discern, but Don Roberdeaux’ map indicates that JFK turned his head sharply to the left (he was looking to his right prior to this) just before he disappears behind the Stemmons sign (as seen in the Zapruder film). I have an idea that the left turn of JFK’s head might indicate that he noticed JBC trying to turn around to see JFK and so JFK might have been turning towards JBC and starting to lean forward to be able to communicate better with him when they were both hit. (These things happening quickly while they were obscured from view by the Stemmons sign.) Then as we see JFK emerge from behind the sign he could be “stiffening up” as Brehm describes. It is just an idea of what might have happened, I am not trying to say that it did happen this way.
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(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8UCPvVY5h_Q/T3HEemPax_I/AAAAAAAAG78/TA_kASwTfKI/s845/Charles-Brehm-Logo.png) (http://dvp-video-audio-archive.blogspot.com/2012/03/charles-brehm.html)
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(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8UCPvVY5h_Q/T3HEemPax_I/AAAAAAAAG78/TA_kASwTfKI/s845/Charles-Brehm-Logo.png) (http://dvp-video-audio-archive.blogspot.com/2012/03/charles-brehm.html)
Thank you very much David. That second interview (the one on radio) seems to answer my question about whether or not on 11/22/63 Brehm was saying there were two shots or three. He definitely said three in the radio interview. Do we know the circumstances of the radio interview? The time and place it was conducted, etc? I am just curious. And in the Mark Lane interview Brehm says he definitely made a statement to the Sheriff’s office. But one has apparently not been found in the records.
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Thank you very much David. That second interview (the one on radio) seems to answer my question about whether or not on 11/22/63 Brehm was saying there were two shots or three. He definitely said three in the radio interview. Do we know the circumstances of the radio interview? The time and place it was conducted, etc?
That radio interview with Brehm was taken (I think) from some of the network radio coverage I have in my collection. But since nobody else can be heard during the interview except Brehm himself, I can't pinpoint the network or station where it originated. I just don't remember.
Side note.....
One thing that has always had me scratching my head concerning Charles Brehm is.....
He claims to have grabbed his son and run away from the scene of the shooting by the time the third shot was fired, and yet we know from the photographic record that Brehm & Son are still standing in just about the same spot on Elm Street several minutes after the shooting (see photo below). So if he "grabbed the boy and ran" (as he claimed in some of his interviews), then it would have to mean he returned just a few minutes later to virtually the same spot on Elm Street where he had witnessed the assassination. Very curious.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhZuxPNNtHnbhGM-6wGWEqInWxENALP620tRQs-cWPv2DG_tYRSC-gVkW6KNQ7IL1CVdLynEjcu49As_8_K1r6c979Z_8SAWoZSvHktpC8vS-WI5IhTPWbZD6_28XYrFa-O3BLzB-apOvcB/s790/November-22-1963-Dealey-Plaza-Dallas-Texas-Crowd-Rushing-Toward-Grassy-Knoll.jpg)
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That radio interview with Brehm was taken from some of the network radio coverage I have in my collection. But since nobody else can be heard during the interview except Brehm himself, I can't pinpoint the network or station where it originated. I just don't remember.
Side note.....
One thing that has always had me scratching my head concerning Brehm is ...... He claims to have grabbed his son and run away from the scene of the shooting by the time the third shot was fired, and yet we know from the photographic record that Brehm & Son are still standing in just about the same spot on Elm Street several minutes after the shooting (see photo below). So if he "grabbed the boy and ran" (as he claimed in some of his interviews), then it would have to mean he returned just a few minutes later to virtually the same spot on Elm Street where he had witnessed the assassination. Very curious.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhZuxPNNtHnbhGM-6wGWEqInWxENALP620tRQs-cWPv2DG_tYRSC-gVkW6KNQ7IL1CVdLynEjcu49As_8_K1r6c979Z_8SAWoZSvHktpC8vS-WI5IhTPWbZD6_28XYrFa-O3BLzB-apOvcB/s790/November-22-1963-Dealey-Plaza-Dallas-Texas-Crowd-Rushing-Toward-Grassy-Knoll.jpg)
I noticed the difference between “grabbed the boy and ran” and what he reportedly said to the FBI on 11/24/63. Here’s a snip from the FBI report:
Immediately after the third shot rang out, BREHM pushed his son down on the grass and for the moment was more concerned with the safety of his son who might be hit accidentally by any wild gunfire which might follow.
Definitely curious, we should be on the lookout for any images that would show the Brehms in the first sixty seconds following the third shot. It might be that they just got up off the ground and were getting ready to cross the street when the photo you posted was taken.
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I noticed the difference between “grabbed the boy and ran” and what he reportedly said to the FBI on 11/24/63. Here’s a snip from the FBI report:
Immediately after the third shot rang out, BREHM pushed his son down on the grass and for the moment was more concerned with the safety of his son who might be hit accidentally by any wild gunfire which might follow.
Thanks for the snippet from the FBI report. Interesting. (That 11/24/63 FBI report on Brehm, BTW, can be found HERE (https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10406#relPageId=31).)
Definitely curious, we should be on the lookout for any images that would show the Brehms in the first sixty seconds following the third shot.
I think the photo below (taken by Wilma Bond) would qualify. It shows Brehm and son on the ground shortly after the shots rang out:
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhaAHbzU7Q-TJXyWJlPgkZ0fOMygv4wKru_6rJA9qR0KcjMj7es1oh7dJAqtRgAGc_ymf0pjn38mQhBn-dtyueryt3vDSfSjF5KKZcgj3SUUmY51dNrOgsLFgcZ5824mxzA57LDbp8yMNY/s790/ZZZ.+Bond+Photo+%2528Large+Version%2529.jpg)
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Thanks for the snippet from the FBI report. Interesting.
I think the photo below (taken by Wilma Bond) would qualify. It shows Brehm and son on the ground shortly after the shots rang out:
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhaAHbzU7Q-TJXyWJlPgkZ0fOMygv4wKru_6rJA9qR0KcjMj7es1oh7dJAqtRgAGc_ymf0pjn38mQhBn-dtyueryt3vDSfSjF5KKZcgj3SUUmY51dNrOgsLFgcZ5824mxzA57LDbp8yMNY/s790/ZZZ.+Bond+Photo+%2528Large+Version%2529.jpg)
Yes, that’s the Brehms. Good find, thanks!
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The Stemmons Freeway sign obstructs the view from Zapruder’s camera for about 1-second. When JFK emerges from behind the sign it appears that he is reacting to being shot. So JFK’s exact position when the bullet struck him in the back base of the neck cannot be seen in the Zapruder film. I think that Brehm should have had a good vantage point to see JFK during the time he is obstructed from Zapruder’s camera by the Stemmons sign. And sure enough, Brehm indicates he did when he says JFK was leaning forward when struck. Here’s a snip from the FBI report which I bolded and underlined for emphasis:
Here’s a snip from Brehm’s account on 11/24/63 as indicated in the FBI report:
After the President's automobile had rounded the corner into Houston Street, he picked up his five-year-old son and ran across the grass from Main Street over to the downhill curved portion of Elm Street which leads from Houston Street to the Stemmons Expressway. He and his son stood right at the curb on the grass and saw the President's car take a wide swing as it turned left from Houston Street into Elm Street.
When the President's automobile was very close to him and he could see the President's face very well, the President was seated, but was leaning forward when he stiffened perceptibly at the same instant what appeared to be a rifle shot sounded. According to BREHM, the President seemed do to stiffen and come to a pause when another shot sounded and the President appeared to be badly hit in the head. BREHM said when the President was hit by the second shot, he could notice the President's hair fly up, and then roll over to his side, as Mrs. KENNEDY was apparently pulling him in that direction.
BREHM said that a third shot followed and that all three shots were relatively close together. BREHM stated that he was in military service and he has had experience with bolt-action rifles, and he expressed the opinion that the three shots were fired just about as quickly as an individual can maneuver a bolt-action rifle, take aim, and fire three shots.
I think it is remarkable that Brehm provided these details shortly after the assassination (before the WC provided this type of detail in their report, or even existed). It is difficult for me to discern, but Don Roberdeaux’ map indicates that JFK turned his head sharply to the left (he was looking to his right prior to this) just before he disappears behind the Stemmons sign (as seen in the Zapruder film). I have an idea that the left turn of JFK’s head might indicate that he noticed JBC trying to turn around to see JFK and so JFK might have been turning towards JBC and starting to lean forward to be able to communicate better with him when they were both hit. (These things happening quickly while they were obscured from view by the Stemmons sign.) Then as we see JFK emerge from behind the sign he could be “stiffening up” as Brehm describes. It is just an idea of what might have happened, I am not trying to say that it did happen this way.
I animated JFK starting with a 10 degree lean forward and ending vertical over the period of the animation where JFK is hidden behind the Stemmons sign (Stemmons Zone). It seems to me that Brehm's JFK's stiffening observation is feasible. A more realistic modeling and positioning of JFK and Connally might obscure his view however. The DX and DZ display in the overhead view are feet north(x) and west(-z) from the position I have for Brehm. I can change the lean angle to whatever you choose.
(https://i.imgur.com/Pqb5hwn.gif)
Before this post I read your FBI report indicating Brehm could see the President's face very well, apparently during the time JFK is stiffing in his seat. However, my animation and some variations fail to show JFK's face from the turn off Houston street until he is nearly in front of Brehm-well beyond the Stemmons Zone. I don't know what to think about that.
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I animated JFK starting with a 10 degree lean forward and ending vertical over the period of the animation where JFK is hidden behind the Stemmons sign (Stemmons Zone). It seems to me that Brehm's JFK's stiffening observation is feasible. A more realistic modeling and positioning of JFK and Connally might obscure his view however. The DX and DZ display in the overhead view are feet north(x) and west(-z) from the position I have for Brehm. I can change the lean angle to whatever you choose.
(https://i.imgur.com/Pqb5hwn.gif)
Before this post I read your FBI report indicating Brehm could see the President's face very well, apparently during the time JFK is stiffing in his seat. However, my animation and some variations fail to show JFK's face from the turn off Houston street until he is nearly in front of Brehm-well beyond the Stemmons Zone. I don't know what to think about that.
Thanks James, excellent work as usual. I also noticed the face being obscured during this period. However, it does appear to me that JFK’s face would become visible to Brehm’s position very shortly (if the animation were to be continued). The human memory isn’t like a slow motion instant replay. So, some of the details can easily get mixed up. And we might be interpreting it a little differently than Brehm was trying to describe. We often don’t use precise language in our descriptions. Also, it appears to me that once JFK’s face became visible to Brehm and the look on JFK’s face indicated to Brehm that he had been hit, that the expression on JFK’s face is what stood out in Brehm’s memory. The main thing your animation shows is that Brehm’s vantage point did provide a view to JFK’s torso during the period of time he was obscured from Zapruder’s camera by the Stemmons sign. Also, the Zapruder film shows that Brehm appeared to be looking directly at JFK. So Brehm’s description does appear to me to be credible.
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I animated JFK starting with a 10 degree lean forward and ending vertical over the period of the animation where JFK is hidden behind the Stemmons sign (Stemmons Zone). It seems to me that Brehm's JFK's stiffening observation is feasible. A more realistic modeling and positioning of JFK and Connally might obscure his view however. The DX and DZ display in the overhead view are feet north(x) and west(-z) from the position I have for Brehm. I can change the lean angle to whatever you choose.
(https://i.imgur.com/Pqb5hwn.gif)
Before this post I read your FBI report indicating Brehm could see the President's face very well, apparently during the time JFK is stiffing in his seat. However, my animation and some variations fail to show JFK's face from the turn off Houston street until he is nearly in front of Brehm-well beyond the Stemmons Zone. I don't know what to think about that.
Good stuff.
Can u make a model of Hickey's eyeball view of JFK (Hickey sitting hi up in Queen Mary)(QM was say 6ft clear behind the jfklimo)(Hickey having moved over to nearer the center-line of QM).
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Good stuff.
Can u make a model of Hickey's eyeball view of JFK (Hickey sitting hi up in Queen Mary)(QM was say 6ft clear behind the jfklimo)(Hickey having moved over to nearer the center-line of QM).
Hi Marjan,
I'm not really sure what scene (Z frames) you are wanting, but I'm using the frames where JFK was hidden by the Stemmons sign (as above animations). For testing I put the camera at the midpoint of the Queen Mary model and may need to refine the height above pavement per your suggestion. It is obvious my QM model is little more than a box with a cutout for the cab. If a windshield is important to you I can't add one at this time.
(https://i.imgur.com/CC1R7zI.gif)
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Hi Marjan,
I'm not really sure what scene (Z frames) you are wanting, but I'm using the frames where JFK was hidden by the Stemmons sign (as above animations). For testing I put the camera at the midpoint of the Queen Mary model and may need to refine the height above pavement per your suggestion. It is obvious my QM model is little more than a box with a cutout for the cab. If a windshield is important to you I can't add one at this time.
(https://i.imgur.com/CC1R7zI.gif)
Good stuff. The Z frame is not important (but Z312 is of course the frame of most interest), a critical thing is that QM is 6ft clear behind the jfklimo, & directly behind (ie in line).
Actually, the Z frame is important. Koz, Hickey's first shot of his 4 shots was at say Z304, & u will see that the alignment shows that this went to near Tague at the TUP.
The alignment of Hickey's shot-1 duz not have to be in accord with the center to center line of the 2 limos, the AR15 was free to aim anywhere it liked within reason, ie it aimed at a point just left of Tague (even if the center to center of the 2 limos aimed well right of Tague).
Hickey's 4th shot was the headshot at Z312.
And if its less of a problem for u, i reckon that u kan use your existing model for the jfklimo for the QM, & the existing model for the jfklimo already has a windshield.
The windshield of QM was i think 1 inch higher than the windshield of the jfklimo (ie if on level ground).
The upturned vizors on the jfklimo & QM are missing but are not needed, Hickey shot between or over the upturned vizors.
And the backseat of QM was (on that day) i think a few inches higher than the back seat of the jfklimo (ie if on level ground).
Re the camera representing Hickey's eyeball view, it is ok to have this on the centerline (tho i think that Hickey was a little left of center).
But re having the camera at midpoint, i think it would be better to have it more truly back near Hickey's pozzy in the back seat, ie Hickey was sitting hi up (on 2 cases) about one head height higher (say 10 inches) than when sitting low down.
Plus u could raise Hickey's head (in the jfklimo) koz az i said earlier the seat in QM would have been say 3 inches higher than in the jfklimo (alltho i have seen it said that it was i think 8 inches higher).
And jfk (ie his head) was near centerline in the jfklimo, & the top of his head was say 6 inches below the level of the windshield of his limo (ie if on level ground).
So, in this case, i suspect that Hickey would have been able to see say a half of jfk's head (ie above the windshield of QM).
In which case the AR15 would have to be at a level a little below the camera to see say 1 inch of jfk's head above the windshield of QM.
Which would mean that the barrel of the AR15 would have to be at about chin height on Hickey. Which as i have said is possible koz Hickey would have been raising & swinging the AR15 up & over O'Donnell's head.
Plus, the Bronson footage shows that Hickey at one stage raised up briefly a half head above his already high sitting pozzy, in which case he might have raised the AR15 higher (at least briefly)(before he stumbled forward)(& then he stumbled back down onto his hi-seat pozzy).
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Weird how he said he was standing on Palmer Street. Where the hell is that? Was he new to Dallas or something?
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Weird how he said he was standing on Palmer Street. Where the hell is that? Was he new to Dallas or something?
I think that Brehm just made a mental error regarding Palmer Street. Google Maps doesn’t indicate that there is a street by that name in Dallas. In “No More Silence” by Larry Sneed, Brehm says his home state is Pennsylvania. However, it appears to me that he was not new to Dallas in 1963. Brehm also states in “No More Silence” that one of the FBI agents who interviewed Brehm, Joe Hanley, had a son who happened to be “keeping company” with Brehm’s daughter at that time. Also that Charles Brehm and Joe Hanley knew each other and went to the same church.
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Weird how he said he was standing on Palmer Street. Where the hell is that? Was he new to Dallas or something?
Maybe Lamar street, four blocks east of his Main/Houston location?
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Maybe Lamar street, four blocks east of his Main/Houston location?
Mr. Brehm said "Commerce Street". He confused Elm Street and Commerce Street.