JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Marjan Rynkiewicz on December 05, 2023, 11:32:50 PM
-
I copied this from my other thread re Hoffman, koz i reckon that the motorcade stop deserves its own thread. I add more wordage today.
Craig Roberts and Ed Hoffman at the Larry Howard Symposium Kansas October 1994 #JFKassassination
2,422 views Apr 11, 2022 #JFKassassination
What percentage of Ed's statements here on this youtube & over the years were non-true? I reckon very close to 100% was a lie.
At 40:25 he says that the Queen Mary briefly stopped below his lookout, & turned its lights out, when they saw him gesturing.
At 40:25. ……. there were other special services – the other car was coming along behind them -- & the secret service noticed my hands—they noticed u know they stopped -- they turned their lights out – i thort maybe they were trying to motion to me – but they all got out of there very quickly of course -- & that man had already gone down the tracks by this time – so there was no time to let anyone know – so i ran & got in my car & i drove down towards that direction -- & i kept looking for where the man had gone – he had disappeared completely – no one ever found him…..
-
Craig Roberts and Ed Hoffman at the Larry Howard Symposium Kansas October 1994 #JFKassassination
2,422 views Apr 11, 2022 #JFKassassination
What percentage of Ed's statements here on this youtube & over the years were non-true? I reckon very close to 100% was a lie.
At 40:25 he says that the Queen Mary briefly stopped below his lookout, & turned its lights out, when they saw him gesturing.
At 40:25. ……. there were other special services – the other car was coming along behind them -- & the secret service noticed my hands—they noticed u know they stopped -- they turned their lights out – i thort maybe they were trying to motion to me – but they all got out of there very quickly of course -- & that man had already gone down the tracks by this time – so there was no time to let anyone know – so i ran & got in my car & i drove down towards that direction -- & i kept looking for where the man had gone – he had disappeared completely – no one ever found him…..
Recently i saw a few old mentions on forums re the jfklimo &/or Queen Mary stopping or slowing on Stemmons Fwy onramp below Hoffman's Lookout. And, i remembered that Hoffman had on at least one occasion (in youtubes or in books etc) "mentioned" that Queen Mary had stopped below him on the Stemmons onramp.
This "mention" by Hoffman is praps the most important bit of info re the whole Hoffman saga (ie his 100% krapp story of seeing a shooter shoot a shot over the paling fence etc).
It confirms that Hoffman was on Stemmons, but where? -- there are 6 possibilities – Hoffman was…..
1. Sitting at Hoffman's Lookout (out of view in the Bell footage, hidden by trees).
2. The Gawker, ie the guy (seen in Bell) sitting on the western barricade of Stemmons overpass (20 yd south of Hoffman's Lookout).
3. The guy driving the falcon (Falcon seen in Bell) very slowly near (2) & probly then stopping between (2) & (1).
4. The passenger that (seen in Bell) jumps out of the Falcon near (2).
5. One of the say 6 guys (seen in Bell) walking south up Stemmons overpass near (1) & (2).
6. Somewhere on the overpass nearer the rail bridge (with all of the queuers) where the Fwy was blocked 100 yd north.
I reckon that Hoffman was driving the Falcon (2). If the JFK limo or Queen Mary stopped or nearly (by up to 30 sec) then that would have given Hoffman a chance to (stop & get out of his Falcon &) see JFK, &/or to see Hickey (holding his AR15). Otherwise, if the JFK limo or Queen Mary did not stop/slow, then they would have passed the rail bridge & been on Stemmons before Hoffman got out of his Falcon.
Anyhow, it seems that Hoffman did indeed get a glimpse of JFK &/or the AR15, rather than seeing the rears of the cars far away disappearing up Stemmons past the rail bridge.
And, it makes sense that the jfklimo or Queen Mary or both turned their lights off -- this might also turn the siren off -- turning the siren(s) off would help the agents to talk (about the direction to hozzie).
Yes, Hoffman was there, driving his Falcon. Duzz Hoffman's book have a pix of his Falcon? A pix might confirm that the Falcon seen in Bell is indeed (the same as) Hoffman's Falcon.
I wonder who was Hoffman's passenger -- it was a big guy.
PENN JONES T H E CONTINUING INQUIRY VOLUME IV, NUMBER 9 APRIL 22, 1980 THE STOP-AND-GO MOTORCADE by Gary Mack
When retired Dallas Police Officer Earle V. Brown told me the motorcade stopped on the Stemmons Freeway access ramp (see March 1980 TCI), my first thought was verification. From all written information, including the Warren Commission volumes, there's no direct indication whatsoever that such an event really happened. The TCI printing deadline was moved back some 10 days to accommodate all I knew at that time.
Afterward, I called Brown again to ask if he was absolutely certain about what he saw. He said he'd been thinking about it for the past week and there was no doubt - the motorcade, with the Kennedy limousine in front, came to a halt for some 30 seconds.
Brawn didn't remember any specifics - there may have been one or two motorcycles, he couldn't recall anyone getting out of a car, one of the men had what appeared to be a big automatic rifle. But the two men in the front seat of the limousine were talking and gesturing, and that's why Brown concluded, right then, they didn't know the location of the nearest hospital. Secret Service guidelines, of course, required that knowledge.
3 I'd heard that Jesse Curry can be reasonable with critics and remembered that his wife had called our radio station two years ago to say thanks for treating her husband fairly on our talk shows. So, seeking verification of Brown's story, I called the former Dallas Chief of Police. Since this was to be our first discussion, I decided not to press the man too hard for answers. He's in the phone book, I dialed the number and Chief Curry himself answered. If he recognized my name or the radio station, he gave no indication. He did agree to answer a few questions. When asked if his car was ever behind Kennedy's, Curry denied it by repeating his Warren Commission testimony that he led the motorcade to Parkland. When I next told him some "newly discovered" films and photographs showed he pulled to his left in the Triple Underpass, slowed down, then speeded up and cut in between JFK and his Secret Service escort car, Curry still denied being behind Kennedy.
There was no real reason to argue the point, so I asked about the speed of the motorcade out of Dealey Plaza and on up to Stemmons. Curry said they were accelerating "pretty good" until the motorcycle officer pulled up and they talked briefly. He didn't remember the officer's name, even when I mentioned Martin, Chaney and Jackson. "I leaned out my window and said to him 'Were those shots?' and he said 'Yes and the President's hurt pretty bad.' And I said 'Well get us to the hospitall' "
I asked where this conversation took place and he said "somewhere just before Stemmons." %'he big question, how fast were you going, made him pause before answering "Probably '^tive or six miles an hour."
When told of Officer Brown's account, Curry denied they stopped, but revised his speed estimate to "pretty slow, maybe two to three miles an hour."
Before I could ask him to think about it more carefully, Curry unexpectedly volunteered "You know, they didn't even know where the hospital wasi" "There have been rumors about………
…………….. *>“In the telephone conversation not long before he died Curry confirmed to me that another police officer had witnessed [second hand testimony] the motorcade came to a virtual halt on the *access ramp to the Stemmens*. Patrolman Earl Brown was on the railroad overpass which spans Stemmons (not the triple underpass) and saw the cars come to a complete stop for nearly 30 seconds as it approached him.
He told this information to Earl Golz of the Dallas Morning News, and repeated it to me when I called him for verification. Unknown to me was that Jim Bowles, in his reconstruction had already allowed for 15-20 seconds for the temporary stop in addition to the time it took from the Plaza to the access road.
Curry told me they slowed down for two reasons: to find out from motorcycle officer if anyone was hurt, and to inform the Secret Service of the location of the nearest hospital.”
NOTE: The access ramp to the Stemmons FWY is some 700 feet beyond the Pavilion where Zapruder filmed the JFK head shot – and some 400 feet beyond the triple underpass. Earl Brown was 400 feet to the right on another railroad overpass.
In reading Vince Palamara’s ‘Fifty-nine Witnesses: Delay on Elm Street’ , I see enough controversy between “the car slowed down” to “the car stopped momentarily” to conclude that choosing which testimony is correct is a matter of the bias of the person attempting to make a case one way or the other…………….
-
I am thinking that the only possibly helpful bit of the whole Hoffman saga is his mention that Queen Mary stopped, & turned its warning lights off, ie turned its siren off. Hoffman would see that the lights were turned off, but being deaf would not know that the siren was turned off. So, i smell some truth here. Hoffman concocted most of his sad story by reading articles over a number of years. But, was there ever anything written about the Queen Mary stopping on the onramp? – i don’t think so. So, i think that Hoffman saw something with his own eyes. Being deaf he would not have been able to eavesdrop on (at least 6) gawkers talking amongst themselves near Hoffman's Lookout on the overpass (plus say 60 gawkers in the 3 car queues blocked at the rail bridge).
Earle Brown on the rail bridge said that the "whole motorcade" stopped on the on-ramp (access ramp) for praps 30 seconds.
The "whole motorcade" would have been (1) JFK limo, (2) Curry in lead car, (3) Queen Mary, (4) VP limo, & praps (5) the VP follow-up car with SS agents, & praps later (6) a patrol bike (if it caught up during the stoppage).
Here above i assume that (2) the lead car has a little earlier cut in between the JFK limo & Queen Mary.
Problem-1. Hoffman "said" (in his book i think) that when the Queen Mary was below him the JFK limo had already passed the rail bridge (ie the JFK limo was over 100 yd ahead of Queen Mary). Or, praps Hoffman meant that when the Queen Mary stopped the JFK limo kept going & therefore was soon a long way ahead. In any case Hoffman's version of the stoppage is not the same as Brown's version (Brown said that the whole motorcade stopped).
Problem-2. Hoffman duznt mention the lead car, nor the VP limo & its SS follow-up car. Or praps he duz mention them in his book (i haven’t redd his book).
I don’t remember patrolman Murphy on the overpass over the onramp ever mentioning that the lead car cut in front of Queen Mary before Queen Mary reached the eastern side of the overpass where Murphy was standing (no big deal). Murphy (after Queen Mary had passed under him) probly ran 24 yd over to the western side of the overpass in say 7 sec to catch another glimpse of the JFK limo.
Problem-3. Had the motorcade stopped (near say Hoffman's Lookout) then Murphy (after he ran over to the western barrier) would have had time for a good view looking down on the confusion. But Murphy never mentions running over, & duznt mention any such stoppage & confusion.
How would a stoppage look? Praps the lead car pulled up next to the JFK limo, & praps Curry said follow us to the hospital, & praps then the lead car took the lead again (ie it had been in the lead when it entered the triple underpass). The onramp is wide enuff for the lead car to pass the JFK limo, & in any case the left kerb has a semi-mountable profile that accommodates passing.
So, i reckon that Hoffman was indeed somewhere on the overpass next to the onramp, & saw Queen Mary (probly already) stopped, & saw Queen Mary turn its warning lights off. But Hoffman forgot about other details. I doubt that Hickey pointed the AR15 at Hoffman. I doubt that Hoffman ran towards Brown waving his arms. I doubt that Hoffman made an early exit in his Falcon, etc.
SSA Hill is still alive. Someone should ask him whether the motorcade stopped on the onramp. However, i suspect that such a stoppage would have been hushed up – koz it would have been yet another failure of the SS (say Failure-4 of 10), ie not knowing how to get to the nearest emergency hospital.
A motorcade stoppage on the onramp would do little to help our understanding of what happened in Dealey Plaza re the jfk shots (ie the attempted assassination by Oswald & the accidental homicide by Hickey).
But the existence of the stoppage might help our understanding of ….
(1) the ensuing coverup of the accidental homicide, &
(2) the utter litany of failures re the facts & factoids, &
(3) the stupidity of many researchers & supposed experts (ie on this forum & other forums), &
(4) the ongoing hysteria of dullards with broken BS-meters arguing in ever increasing circles re their favorit dogma re the first shot & a magic bullet & a big hole in the back of the head & a shot from the front & a shooter at the paling fence etc.
-
I have advised that Officer Murphy ran across Stemmons east to west as soon as JFK & Queen Mary passed under him -- & Murphy then stood at the western barrier looking north (Bell frame).
Officer Brown said that the jfklimo & other cars stopped for 30 seconds, just north of Murphy.
But Murphy duznt mention any such stopping in his testimony.
Murphy duznt mention that Murphy ran across to the west side.
He says that soon after the shots the traffic banked up to past his position, but, there is no such banking up in Bell's footage, not for perhaps one minute after the shots.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh6/pdf/WH6_Murphy.pdf
TESTIMONY OF JOE E. MURPHY
The testimony of Joe E. Murphy was taken at 950 a.m., on April 8, 1964, in the office of U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Joseph A. Ball, assistant counsel of the President’s Commission.
Mr. BALL. Will you raise your right hand and be sworn? Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give before the Commission will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, SO help you God?
Mr. MUBPHY. I do.
Mr. BALL. Will you state your name and address for the record?
Mr. MUBPHY. Joe E. Murphy, 2509 Winthrop ; (spelling) W-i-n-t-h-r-o-p, Drive.
Mr. BALL. And what is your occupation?
Mr. MUBPHY. Police officer.
Mr. BALL. How long have you been with the Department?
Mr. MURPHY. I am in my 21st year.
Mr. BALL. With the Dallas Police Department?
Mr. MUBPHY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Where were.you born?
Mr. MWPHY. Dallas.
Mr. BALL. Where did you go to school?
Mr. MWPHY. High school-St. Joseph High School here in Dallas.
Mr. BALL. You went all through school here in Dallas, did you?
Mr. MURPHY. Yes, sir; that’s right.
Mr. BALL. What did you do after you got out of high school?
Mr. MUEPHY. Well, I played pro baseball for about 2 years, Class D-West Texas and New Mexico League. After that I went to work for the Humble Oil and Refining Co. in Baytown. I was down there about 2 years and came back to Dallas and then I went to work on the police force.
Mr. BALL. And you have been there ever since?
Mr. MUBPHY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. You are a patrolman, are you?
Mr. MUBPHY. That’s right.
Mr. BALL. Do you have a three-wheeler?
Mr. MUBPHY. A three-wheeler-yes.
Mr. BALL. On November 22, 1963, did they assign you to some post?
Mr. MUBPHY. Yes, I was assigned to the overpass-the Stemmons Freeway overpass northbound at Elm Street-over Elm.
Mr. BALL. What instructions did you have?
Mr. MURPHY. It was to keep anyone and everyone off of the overpass and to keep traffic moving until the motorcade arrived.
Mr. BALL. Now, you have a map here which you have drawn for us to show your position, is that right? (Reporter marked instrument-Murphy Exhibit A, for identification.)
Mr. MWPHY. Yes; that’s right.
Mr. BALL. And you have drawn a position there as to where you were standing, is that right?
Mr. MUBPHY. That’s right.
Mr. BALL. And where you parked your three-wheeler?
Mr. MuaPHY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. All right, mark the place where you were standing as Position 1, using an “X”.
Mr. MURPHY. All right. (Witness Murphy marked the diagram 88 requested by Counsel Ball.)
Mr. BALL. And your three-wheeler was beside you?
Mr. MUBPHY. Yes; right on the shoulder.
Mr. BALL. Wexe there any other ofllcers on that overpass?
Mr. MIUBPHY. Yes; there were two more about-oh, a 100 feet south of meto slow traffic or to stop traffic whenever the motorcade entered the Stemmons Freewq north entrance.
Mr. BALL. Now where were they located-and, did they as the motorcade came down Elm Street, did they go into the highway and stop traffic?
Mr. BIUEPHY. Yes; they did.
Mr. BALL. Will you put their positions on the Stemmons Freeway overpass at the time the motorcade came west on Elm, and mark it (2) and (3).
Mr. MUBPHY. (Marked diagram as requested by Counsel Ball.)
Mr. BALL. Do you know the names of those officers that were (2) and (3) ?
Mr. MUBPHY. I can’t recall. I know them but I can’t recall who they were.
Mr. BALL. Were they three-wheeler oflicers too, do they drive three-wheelers?
Mr. MWPHY. I believe both of them three-wheelers.
Mr. BALL. And as the motorcade came west on Elm, did they stop traffic on Stemmons Freeway?
Mr. MURPHY. Yes, their main job was to slow it and let the officers farther down the freeway-they would stop it, but tratXc approaches pretty fast and they were to slow traffic and let the officers then stop it. They did-they-they stepped into and were slowing the traffic as the motorcade came under that railroad overpass.
Mr. BALL. Did they ever stop traffic completely?
Mr. MURPHY. Well, it stopped-it stopped itself back down when all the excitement-someone down there-they blocked the whole street and then it backed up, is what it did-backed up to our position.
Mr. BALL. On Stemmons Freeway?
Mr. MURPHY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Now Position (1) is where you were standing?
Mr. MURPHY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Were there any people standing on the overpass over Elm, on the Stemmons Freeway overpass over Elm, as the motorcade came down?
Mr. MURPHY. No: there was no one standing there prior to the arrival of the motorcade or after the motorcade arrived.
Mr. BALL. The only one standing there was you?
Mr. MURPHY. It was me.
Mr. BALL. Now, let’s go to the railroad overpass, and first of all, as you turned west on Elm from Houston, what is the first overpass that you encounter?
Mr. MUBPHY. There is a railroad overpass-all of the trains entering and leaving the Union Station cross over that overpass.
Mr. BALL. Were there any officers on that overpass?
Mr. MUBPHY. There were two.
Mr. BALL. Can you mark their positions, approximately, as you saw them before the motorcade arrived?
Mr. MUBPHY. As best I could see--one was on each side-one here and one over on this side.
Mr. BALL. AI1 right, mark the position of the o5cer on the west side asPosition (4), and the one on the east side as Position (5).
(The Witness Murphy marked the diagram as requested by Counsel Ball.)
Mr. BALL. Were these uniformed officers?
Mr. MURPHY. Yes, they were.
Mr. BALL. Do you know their names?
Mr. MURPHY. No, sir; I don’t.
Mr. BALL. Did they have three-wheelers?
Mr. MURPHY. No; I couldn’t say.
Mr. BALL. Now, were there any other people besides the two officers on this railroad overpass?
Mr. MURPHY. There were about 8 or l&from what I could s-about 8 or 10 men dressed in the overalls and they appeared to be railroad employeees.
Mr. BALL. Can you mark in their positions, approximately?
Mr. MURPHY. Well, they were in a group right in the center of Elm Street.
Mr. BALL. They were all together?
Mr. MURPHY. Yes ; it appeared that they were in a group (Witness Murphy drew circle indicating presence of persons heretofore mentioned as requested by Counsel Ball).
Mr. BALL. You have drawn a circle there?
Mr. MUBPHY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. And mark that (6).
(Witness Murphy marked the diagram as requested by Counsel Ball.)
Mr. BALL. And in that circle there were about how many?
Mr. MUBPHY. 8 to 10 persons.
Mr. BALL. There were 8 to 10 persons approximately, dressed in overalls?
Mr. MUBPHY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Did you see any other people on the railroad overpass?
Mr. MWPHY. No, sir; I didn’t.
Mr. BALL. Could you see the motorcade on Houston from your position (1) ?
Mr. MURPHY. Yes; I could.
Mr. BALL. Did you see the President’s car turn the corner of Main and Houston?
Mr. MUEPHY. Yes; I did.
Mr. BALL. That was in your view, was it?
Mr. McnwH~. Yes; it was
Mr. BALL. Was the corner of Houston and Elm within your view?
Mr. MURPHY. Just a portion of it-you lose sight of it there for just a few seconds, as it makes the turn. Well, you lose sight of it. There is some kind of a-on that part there is a concrete, oh, I don’t know what you would call it-kind of a framework-it appears to be.
Mr. BALL. In other words, there is an obstruction to your view?
Mr. MWPHY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. From where you were standing at Position (1) ?
Mr. MUBPHY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. And the corner of the intersection of Houston and Elm?
Mr. MUBPHY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Were you able to see the President’s car after it had turned west on Elm from Houston?
Mr. MUBPHY. Well, again there, you just get a very short view of it before it goes out of sight then, going down that hill.
Mr. BALL. You heard shots, did you?
Mr. MUBPHY. Yes, I did.
Mr. BALL. Now, from the time you saw the President’s car turn north on Houston from Main and until you heard the shots, what direction were you looking ?
Mr. MWPHY. I was looking in an easterly direction.
Mr. BALL. Toward what?
Mr. MWPHY. Toward the motorcadetowards the President’s car.
Mr. BALL. Did you keep the motorcade in sight at all times?
Mr. MUBPHY. Yes, I did.
Mr. BALL. Did you see anything unusual occur in this group of railroad men where you have marked Position (6) ?
Mr. MWPHY. No, I didn’t-I did not.
Mr. BALL. Anybody armed there? Mr. MURPHY. No, not that I could tell.
Mr. BALL. Can you tell me what direction the policemen were looking who were at Position (4) and (5) ?
Mr. MURPHY. They appeared to be looking in an easterly direction also.
Mr. BALL. The direction of the motorcade?
Mr. MURPHY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. And dni rou see other individuals on that railroad overpass except the ones you have described?
Mr. MURPHY. No, just that group that I have described.
Mr. BALL. Now, you say you heard something-heard shots?
Mr. MURPHY. Yes.
Mr. BAI.L. Describe to me your best recollection as to what you heard?
Mr. MURPHY. Well, I heard-I knew they were shots as soon as I heard them, but I thought at first it was-it sounded like a shotgun, and then I got the three shots and there were so many echoes and everything-then I did determine it sounded more like a rifle. I do quite a bit of hunting and I determined it sounded more like a rifle.
Mr. BALL. Those shots came from what direction?
Mr. MURPHY. Well. just from the direction I was looking-that’s all I could tell. They came from an easterly direction, from where I was standing.
Mr. BALL. And were there echoes?
Mr. MURPHY. Yes, quite a few.
Mr. BALL. Did the men who were on the overpass at Position (5) do anything?
Mr. MURPHY. I don’t recall--on that overpass--right after the shots, I did see then a group of people running up the side of this embankment on Elm and running. That would be here-right in here.
Mr. BALL. To the north of Elm?
Mr. MURPHY. To the north of Elm.
Mr. BALL. Would you put an arrow showing the direction they were running and mark that arrow as “‘7”-that’s the direction you saw people running?
Mr. MTRPHY. (Marked diagram as requested by Counsel Ball.) Yes, they were running up in this direction and then in behind this Book Depository. Oh, I could tell a lot of them were photographers, because I could see their cameras in their hands and then a number of other people, and then I did see some officers also running in that direction.
Mr. BALL. Did you see what the railroad men did who were at Position (6) on your map?
Mr. MURPHY. No; because right at that time that traffic began backing up on the freeway and I had turned in to try to keep them moving, but I found that I couldn’t move them because it was blocked down below me, north of me and there was traffic just stacked up from where the other officers had it stopped there.
Mr. BAL.L. How long did you stay at your position?
Mr. MURPHY. Well, I stayed until, I guess, it was about maybe 3 minutes after we heard the shots and then the broadcast came over the radio that there had been a shooting-the President had been shot-and then I went towards the Book Depository. I got on my motor and went towards the Book Depository then-off of the freeway; and then was there up around the Book Depository for the nextI would say hour or hour and a half at least.
Mr. BALL. Did you talk to any witnesses?
Mr. MCRPHY. I did pick up or talk to three or four people that said they had seen things and said they heard different things, and I took them to the sheriff’s office across the street.
Mr. BALL. Do you knew what their names were?
Mr. MURPHY. No, sir; I couldn’t tell you. I turned them over to the investigators there with the sheriff’s department-the district attorney’s investigators, that’s who they were.
Mr. BALL. You didn’t make any notes of their names?
Mr. MURPHY. No, sir; I didn’t.
Mr. BALL. Do you remember now what any of them told you?
Mr. MLRPHY. Well, one man in particular-he was standing on Elm-he was standing right about here where we have marked Position (7), and he claimed that he heard two shots above him and behind him, and one shot from up around the edge of this park, and another man claimed that he had been standing nearly in this same position-he was standing here on the street and he claimed that all the shots he heard came from overhead to his rear.
Mr. BALL. That would be near the Texas School Book Depository?
Mr. MURPHY. Yes, towards that Book Depository.
Mr. ISALL. Did you go on the police radio and make any announcement or statement?
Mr. MURPHY. So, sir; I didn’t. It was so jammed, I didn’t make any.
Mr. BALL. I would like to have this marked as Exhibit A to your deposition, which is illustrative of your testimony. (Instrument marked by the reporter as Murphy Exhibit No. A, for identification.)
Mr. BALL. This will be written up and you can come in and look it over and sign it if you wish, or you can waive signature if you wish. It is your optionwhat would you like to do?
Mr. MURPHY. Well, if it’s necessary, I will sign it. If it isn’t, that’s perfectly all right with me.
Mr. BALL. It isn’t necessary.
Mr. MURPHY. Well, that’s all right then.
Mr. BALL. Then, you will waive signature?
Mr. MURPHY. Yes, sir.
Mr. B&L. Thanks very much for coming in.
Mr. MWPHY. All right<ertainly.
-
Hoffman Also Appears To Indicate That His Alleged Fence Shooter Was Left Handed: From Video Time 1.00
Notice that Hoffman seems to indicate [0:35] that he parked his Falcon next to his Lookout (his Lookout is where he is sitting on the concrete barricade). Whereas at other times Hoffman says he parked his Falcon on the onramp near the railbridge. But praps Hoffman had been misquoted here, praps he had actually gesticulated that he parked his bum (not Falcon) on the barricade.
Anyhow, Hoffman's Lookout was not visible to Bell, & therefor we karnt see in Bell's footage whether there was a car parked at or near Hoffman's Lookout. Hoffman's Lookout was obscured by the trees on the grassy knoll. The trees obscured Hoffman's Lookout plus at least 30 ft south of Hoffman's Lookout (see Bell frame below).
Also, notice that in this youtube Hoffman duznt say anything about the motorcade halting below him -- he says it passed below him [2:05].
Whereas at other times he had mentioned that the motorcade halted, or at least that Queen Mary halted (& turned its signals off). But praps Hoffman considered that passing includes halting – which it kind of duz.
At [1:40]. Hoffman regurgitates his silly story re a shooter throwing a rifle to a railroad worker who takes the rifle apart & puts it in a toolbox. The shooter & the railroad worker would have been seen by about 14 guys standing about 30 ft to 100 ft away on the triple underpass. Hoffman duznt mention the 14 guys.
Hoffman saw the shooter standing in the shade of the trees near the far end of the paling fence, all obscured by parked cars – but Hoffman did not see the 14 guys standing much closer to Hoffman, in the bright sunshine.
And Hoffman saw a puff of smoke (a shot), even tho the puff would have been going downish below the level of the top of the fence, & it would have been going away from Hoffman (towards JFK), & the puff would have been in shade.
(https://i.postimg.cc/C5Ln6Z5t/bell-of-murphy-falcon-passenger-gawkers.jpg)
-
Another view.
(https://i.postimg.cc/QCxDCdBn/Stemmons-overpass.jpg)
-
The problem I have with the Hoffman story is the Distance from his viewing position to the switch boxes/picket fence. Hoffman has a detailed story that I do not believe the naked eye could capture from that distance
-
The problem I have with the Hoffman story is the Distance from his viewing position to the switch boxes/picket fence. Hoffman has a detailed story that I do not believe the naked eye could capture from that distance
Yes, i mention all of that in my other thread........... https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2886.0.html
The only good bit of anything that Hoffman has ever said is his reference to the motorcade stopping on the onramp.
-
The problem I have with the Hoffman story is the Distance from his viewing position to the switch boxes/picket fence. Hoffman has a detailed story that I do not believe the naked eye could capture from that distance
Yes, about 200 yd.
(https://i.postimg.cc/HLX5hc4W/hoffman-dimensions-aerial-overpass-underpass.jpg)
I dont know why Lane has Hoffman standing where shown. Hoffman said that he was (sitting) at Hoffman's Lookout, which is a long way north of where Lane indicated.
-
Arnold (Hoffman) duznt mention the motorcade stopping on the onramp.
And most of Arnold's article is hogwash about hogwash.
JFK Evidence Series #1: Eyewitness To Tragedy-The Ed Hoffman Story—By Mark Arnold
By Mark Arnold on July 14, 2023
https://fromanativeson.com/2023/07/14/jfk-evidence-series-1-eyewitness-to-tragedy-the-ed-hoffman-story-by-mark-arnold/
-
[1:14] …………He (Milton Wright) says he eventually caught up with the motorcade as it sped away, ending up outside the emergency room of Parkland Memorial Hospital……
Wright drove the limo with Mayor Cabell, 4 cars behind the jfklimo. Wright had to stop because a motorcycle stopped in front of his limo [said he], in front of the TSBD.
Then Wright sped off, & caught up with the cars ahead of him.
The only way he could have caught up is if the motorcade stopped on the onramp to Stemmons, but Wright duznt mention this stoppage.
Praps Wright never saw the stoppage, but if so then imo he would have been aware that the stoppage had occurred.
[edit][Tyler's Motorcade duz show Wright stopping, but the motorcycles stopped in front of LBJ not Wright.]
Hear from a former Texas sheriff who was in the motorcade when JFK was killed
KHOU 11 857K subscribers 8,918 views Nov 23, 2023
Former Fort Bend County Sheriff Milton Wright was working in JFK's security detail when the president was assassinated on Nov. 22, 1963.
-
https://www.fbherald.com/news/ex-sheriff-drove-in-motorcade-carried-jfk-s-body/article_16d80f7c-53b6-11e3-bb17-0019bb2963f4.html
It was a clear, sunny day as the procession reached Dealey Plaza.
At 12:21 p.m., the shots rang out.
Wright didn’t see the shooting of Kennedy and Texas Gov. John Connally, or the dramatic crawl on the trunk by first lady Jacqueline Kennedy.
But he heard the shots. Clearly.
“Three shots,” he said. All from the same direction.
What followed was a harrowing 110-mph race to Parkland Memorial Hospital.[edit][at other times Wright said 80 mph]
Kennedy’s driver didn’t know the way, Wright said.
“The radios were weak and there were no cell phones back then,” he said.
A Dallas motorcycle officer raced alongside to signal directions to the driver.
How did Wright learn that Greer did not know the way to Parkland?
Mark Tyler's motorcade animation shows Wright's limo entering the TUP slowly, 18 seconds after the jfklimo has entered the TUP going fast.
How did Wright catch up to the jfklimo? The jfklimo must have stopped on the onramp.
[edit][However, Wright said that a motorcycle officer raced alongside to take the jfklimo to Parkland][in other words the lead car did not lead, it followed, which accords with other reports that the lead car pulled up near the jfklimo after the jfklimo had already pulled up at Parkland, in other words Curry lied re the lead car being ahead & staying ahead all the way to Parkland]
this is link to Tyler Motorcade [delete the two * & then use link] ........... https://*vimeo.com/*363370647
-
I copied this from my other thread re Hoffman, koz i reckon that the motorcade stop deserves its own thread. I add more wordage today.
What percentage of Ed's statements here on this youtube & over the years were non-true? I reckon very close to 100% was a lie.
At 40:25 he says that the Queen Mary briefly stopped below his lookout, & turned its lights out, when they saw him gesturing.
At 40:25. ……. there were other special services – the other car was coming along behind them -- & the secret service noticed my hands—they noticed u know they stopped -- they turned their lights out – i thort maybe they were trying to motion to me – but they all got out of there very quickly of course -- & that man had already gone down the tracks by this time – so there was no time to let anyone know – so i ran & got in my car & i drove down towards that direction -- & i kept looking for where the man had gone – he had disappeared completely – no one ever found him…..
So you buy the cockamamie theory that George Hickey fired a shot into JFK's head, a whacky theory that virtually no one believes, but you think that "very close to 100%" of Hoffman's account is false. You seem to have done little serious reading about Hoffman and his account. Have you read any of the detailed articles that defend Hoffman's veracity? How about Quinlan and Edwards' book on Hoffman?
You could start with Mark Arnold's recent article on Hoffman:
https://fromanativeson.com/2023/07/14/jfk-evidence-series-1-eyewitness-to-tragedy-the-ed-hoffman-story-by-mark-arnold/http://
No, Arnold doesn't mention the stop on the Stemmons ramp, but he does present a lot of evidence that Hoffman immediately tried to share his account with friends and family members, and that the FBI and others misrepresented what Hoffman said.
-
So you buy the cockamamie theory that George Hickey fired a shot into JFK's head, a whacky theory that virtually no one believes, but you think that "very close to 100%" of Hoffman's account is false. You seem to have done little serious reading about Hoffman and his account. Have you read any of the detailed articles that defend Hoffman's veracity? How about Quinlan and Edwards' book on Hoffman?
You could start with Mark Arnold's recent article on Hoffman:
https://fromanativeson.com/2023/07/14/jfk-evidence-series-1-eyewitness-to-tragedy-the-ed-hoffman-story-by-mark-arnold/http://
No, Arnold doesn't mention the stop on the Stemmons ramp, but he does present a lot of evidence that Hoffman immediately tried to share his account with friends and family members, and that the FBI and others misrepresented what Hoffman said.
It is difficult for me to believe at that distance that Hoffman could see ALL of the detail he described along the picket fence/switch box area. If the distance of 200 yds+ is accurate, that's over 2 football fields. If you have stood on a football field, just eyeballing something goal line-to-goal line causes a person to squint. Now, Hoffman is better than doubling that distance. My own personal experience makes me question this portion of the Hoffman story .
-
So you buy the cockamamie theory that George Hickey fired a shot into JFK's head, a whacky theory that virtually no one believes, but you think that "very close to 100%" of Hoffman's account is false. You seem to have done little serious reading about Hoffman and his account. Have you read any of the detailed articles that defend Hoffman's veracity? How about Quinlan and Edwards' book on Hoffman?
You could start with Mark Arnold's recent article on Hoffman:
https://fromanativeson.com/2023/07/14/jfk-evidence-series-1-eyewitness-to-tragedy-the-ed-hoffman-story-by-mark-arnold/http://
No, Arnold doesn't mention the stop on the Stemmons ramp, but he does present a lot of evidence that Hoffman immediately tried to share his account with friends and family members, and that the FBI and others misrepresented what Hoffman said.
I have read all availlable wordage re the Hoffman saga, & i have looked at all of the available footage.
I have not bort any of his (others' books).
Hoffman changed & added to his story over the years, 99.9% false.
The stuff re the motorcade stoppage is simply amazing, & clearly true.
Ed is unlikely to have known of Earle Brown's similar claim (that there was a stoppage)( & that it was at least 30 sec).
-
Two points:
1. In their book Beyond the Fence Line: The Eyewitness Account of Ed Hoffman and the Murder of President John F. Kennedy, Quinlan and Edwards thoroughly address the criticisms regarding Hoffman's location, his distance from the area behind the picket fence, his view of the area behind the picket fence, and the plausibility of seeing events/people from those distances (pp. 63-104; pp. 76-117 in the Kindle edition).
Quinlan and Edwards spend considerable time on Posner's attack on Hoffman. They show that Posner's assault is misleading and false.
2. Quinlan and Edwards debunk the claim that Hoffman "changed and added to his story over the years." He did not. There were some issues with some of the ASL translations of his sign language, and the FBI misrepresented several aspects of Hoffman's account. The record shows that Hoffman was consistent over the years.
-
2. Quinlan and Edwards debunk the claim that Hoffman "changed and added to his story over the years." He did not. There were some issues with some of the ASL translations of his sign language, and the FBI misrepresented several aspects of Hoffman's account. The record shows that Hoffman was consistent over the years.
Depending on who was interviewing Hoffman, he was quite flexible with his "memories" and the description of Hoffman that he "changed and added to his story over the years." is more than amply demonstrated by these two diametrically opposed recollections.
(https://i.postimg.cc/6QXQ8Yhb/The-Hoff-zpsbhfrcf6f.gif)
JohnM
-
About 1 year+ before David Lifton passed, he claimed he had a couple of witnesses to the JFK Limo Stop on the Stemmons Freeway on-ramp. He said they were a couple of teens at that time, and they stopped along that stretch of the Stemmon Fwy as they were coming back into town a little after Noon. They figured they were too late to get into Dealey Plaza and see the JFK Motorcade, so they stopped along the Stemmons Fwy knowing that JFK would be cruising by them headed in the other direction. According to Lifton, the 2 witnesses claimed they saw the JFK Limo stop and that Jackie was frantically trying to get outta the car. Suited guys were immediately all over her and muscled her back inside the Limo back seat. Lifton said he was going to film 1 of these eyewitnesses telling this story. The other eyewitness was reluctant to have their name out there in connection with the assassination. I never saw or heard anything else about this from that point until Lifton passed. I don't know if Lifton ever filmed 1 of them or not. We all KNOW that JFK Limo stopped somewhere prior to boarding the Stemmons Fwy. With Jackie having climbed onto the Limo trunk while they were inside Dealey Plaza, this story does ring true.
-
Depending on who was interviewing Hoffman, he was quite flexible with his "memories" and the description of Hoffman that he "changed and added to his story over the years." is more than amply demonstrated by these two diametrically opposed recollections.
(https://i.postimg.cc/6QXQ8Yhb/The-Hoff-zpsbhfrcf6f.gif)
JohnM
Like you and me, Hoffman is a Layman along with being a deaf/mute. Cut the poor guy some slack.
-
About 1 year+ before David Lifton passed, he claimed he had a couple of witnesses to the JFK Limo Stop on the Stemmons Freeway on-ramp. He said they were a couple of teens at that time, and they stopped along that stretch of the Stemmon Fwy as they were coming back into town a little after Noon. They figured they were too late to get into Dealey Plaza and see the JFK Motorcade, so they stopped along the Stemmons Fwy knowing that JFK would be cruising by them headed in the other direction. According to Lifton, the 2 witnesses claimed they saw the JFK Limo stop and that Jackie was frantically trying to get outta the car. Suited guys were immediately all over her and muscled her back inside the Limo back seat. Lifton said he was going to film 1 of these eyewitnesses telling this story. The other eyewitness was reluctant to have their name out there in connection with the assassination. I never saw or heard anything else about this from that point until Lifton passed. I don't know if Lifton ever filmed 1 of them or not. We all KNOW that JFK Limo stopped somewhere prior to boarding the Stemmons Fwy. With Jackie having climbed onto the Limo trunk while they were inside Dealey Plaza, this story does ring true.
Good stuff Royell. Any links? Or directions in which i could search? Thanx.
Was it in a youtube?
-
Depending on who was interviewing Hoffman, he was quite flexible with his "memories" and the description of Hoffman that he "changed and added to his story over the years." is more than amply demonstrated by these two diametrically opposed recollections.
(https://i.postimg.cc/6QXQ8Yhb/The-Hoff-zpsbhfrcf6f.gif)
JohnM
If Hoffman was looking down on the jfklimo stopped below him on the on-ramp then he his view of jfk's head wound would probly have been blocked by SSA Hill.
Anyhow it reminds me that one Texas policeman (Wright or Jacks i think) who helped with getting jfk out of the limo said that he did not get to see the head wound koz he could see only the back of jfk's head.
In other words all of the doctors etc who said that the big open outshoot hole was in the back of jfk's head were wrong, & one lil ol cop was correct.
-
Good stuff Royell. Any links? Or directions in which i could search? Thanx.
Was it in a youtube?
I originally saw the short Lifton presentation/preview on YOU TUBE. Lifton also supplied a picture of the area the couple were parked at, which indicated that Lifton was serious enough about the story to research it and photo the area to see if the story held any degree of water. But, like I said, for me the story ended there. I never saw/heard anything else about it. A short while back, YOU TUBE did a "cleansing", (not sure what they technically called it), where they removed a ton of videos that they felt were misleading, inaccurate, false, etc. That Lifton video could have been part of that cleansing.
-
I originally saw the short Lifton presentation/preview on YOU TUBE. Lifton also supplied a picture of the area the couple were parked at, which indicated that Lifton was serious enough about the story to research it and photo the area to see if the story held any degree of water. But, like I said, for me the story ended there. I never saw/heard anything else about it. A short while back, YOU TUBE did a "cleansing", (not sure what they technically called it), where they removed a ton of videos that they felt were misleading, inaccurate, false, etc. That Lifton video could have been part of that cleansing.
Thanx. Yesterday i looked throo a lot of Lifton youtube. Today or tomorrow i will look throo another couple of hours. I will be back.
Obviously the SSA & police etc got the word to keep their mouths shut re the stoppage.
............ Look fellas, the stoppage duznt change anything, & talking about the stoppage would only make Greer & all of us look bad (for not knowing the way to the hospital etc etc).............
But in later years Officer Earle Brown spilled the beans. And in later years Hoffman added to Hoffman's hogwash, but he accidentally gave us a pearl.
-
Thanx. Yesterday i looked throo a lot of Lifton youtube. Today or tomorrow i will look throo another couple of hours. I will be back.
Obviously the SSA & police etc got the word to keep their mouths shut re the stoppage.
............ Look fellas, the stoppage duznt change anything, & talking about the stoppage would only make Greer & all of us look bad (for not knowing the way to the hospital etc etc).............
But in later years Officer Earle Brown spilled the beans. And in later years Hoffman added to Hoffman's hogwash, but he accidentally gave us a pearl.
It was a very interesting story and Lifton was gung ho with his You Tube presentation. He seemed all set to film the 1st witness telling his story. So much so that Lifton detailed it would cost him something like $5,000 to film the 1st witness telling his story. I hope you can find it.
-
(By John Mytton)(link=topic=3887.msg153608#msg153608 date=1702194978) (https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?topic=3887.40 )
(start of quote) ................... Anyway, let's get back on track.
Now that I've destroyed Royell's belief that Curry's lead car just went "poof" and disappeared by utilizing Curry's, Sorrels' and Lawson's under oath testimonies where they all describe assisting in some way with the removal of Kennedy and Connally from JFK's Limo and a photo to top it off, of the Lead car at Parkland. And I also smashed Royell's repeated assertion that their was no antenna over the right door with a range of corroborating photographs, but enough of that, and let's tackle yet another of his latest conspiracies, "After JFK's Limo left Dealey Plaza it stopped so an AR-15 could be retrieved from the trunk."
First of all let's see what the passengers of the Lead Car, JFK's Limo, Hickey in the Queen Mary had to say?
Curry who was in the Lead Car, WC testimony.
Mr. HUBERT - Can you tell us what you know about the matter from that point on, and it may be just as well if you will tell it in a narrative fashion. I will ask you some questions as we go along, or perhaps wait until the end to fill in. We will see how it works out. Briefly, what we want to know is what you know about the whole thing.
Mr. CURRY - Well, on November 22, I was in the lead car of the Presidential caravan. With me were Secret Service Winston Lawson and Forrest Sorrels, and the sheriff of Dallas County, Bill Decker, and we were nearing the triple underpass in the western part of Dallas, and which is near Stemmons Express-way-it was necessary for us to move to Elm Street in order to get on the Stemmons Expressway to get the President's caravan down to the Trade Mart where they were going to have a luncheon.
I heard a sharp report. We were near the railroad yards at this time, and I didn't know--I didn't know exactly where this report came from, whether it was above us or where, but this was followed by two more reports, and at that time I looked in my rear view mirror and I saw some commotion in the President's caravan and realized that probably something was wrong, and it seemed to be speeding up, and about this time a motorcycle officer, I believe it was Officer Chaney rode up beside us and I asked if something happened back there and he said, "Yes," and I said, "Has somebody been shot?" And he said, "I think so." So, I then ordered him to take us to Parkland Hospital which was the nearest hospital, so we took the President's caravan then to Parkland Hospital and they were the President, the Vice President and the Governor--were taken into the hospital and I remained at the hospital for--oh--some hour or so.
Lawson who was in the Lead Car, original report.
At the corner of Houston and Elm Streets I verified with Chief Curry that we were about five minutes from the Trade Mart and gave this signal over my portable White House Communications radio. We were just approaching a railroad overpass and I checked to see if a police officer was in position there and that no one was directly over our path. I noticed a police officer but also noticed a few persons on the bridge and made motions to have these persons removed from over our path. As the Lead Car was passing under this bridge I heard the first loud, sharp report and in more rapid succession two more sounds like gunfire. I could see persons to the left of the motorcade vehicles running away. I noticed Agent Hickey standing up in the follow-up car with the automatic weapon and first thought he had fired at someone. Both the President's car and our Lead Car rapidly accelerated almost simultaneously. I heard a report over the two-way radio that we should proceed to the nearest hospital. I noticed Agent Hill hanging on to the rear of the President's vehicle. A motorcycle escort officer pulled alongside our Lead Car and said the President had been shot. Chief Curry gave a signal over his radio for police to converge on the area of the incident. I requested Chief Curry to have the hospital contacted that we were on the way. Our Lead Car assisted the motorcycles in escorting the President's vehicle to Parkland Hospital.
Upon our arrival there at approximately 12:34 p.m., I rushed into the emergency entrance, met persons coming with two stretchers and helped rush them outside. Governor Connally was being removed from the car when the stretchers arrived and he was placed on the first one. Mr. Powers, myself and one or two others placed President Kennedy on a stretcher and we ran pushing the stretcher into the emergency area which hospital personnel directed us to.
Sorrels' who was in the Lead Car, WC testimony.
Mr. STERN - Would shots from the Book Depository Building have been consistent with your hearing of the shots?
Mr. SORRELS - Yes; they would have.
Mr. STERN - What happened next, Mr. Sorrels?
Mr. SORRELS - We proceeded to Parkland Hospital just as fast as we could.
Mr. STERN - Did you go into the hospital?
Mr. SORRELS - No; I did not go into the hospital.
Greer who drove JFK's Limo, original report.
The President's automobile was almost past this building and I was looking at the overpass that we were about to pass under in case someone was on top of it, when I heard what I thought was the backfire of a motorcycle behind the President's automobile. After the second shot, I glanced over my right shoulder and saw Governor Connally start to fall, I knew then that something was wrong and I immediately pushed the accelerator to the floor and Mr. Kellerman said, get out of here.
We rushed up to the police escort and I called to the motorcycle police, Hospital. Mr. Kellerman was calling to the lead automobile on the radio to get to the nearest hospital fast. I drove as fast as I could to the hospital and helped to get the President into the emergency room.
Kellerman who was next to Greer in JFK's Limo original report
I yelled at William Greer (the driver) to "Step on it, we're hit!" and grabbed the mike from the car radio, called to SA Lawson in the police lead car that we were hit and to get us to a hospital.
With SA Lawson riding in the police car they quickly formed the accompanying escort for the motorcade around our limousines and sped us through the streets to the emergency entrance of Parkland Memorial Hospital. Sometime during the ride to the hospital while looking back into the car I noticed SA Hill hanging on to the back of the car, laying across the trunk. When we got to the hospital I called to the agents to get two stretchers.
Clint Hill who got off the Queen Mary and leapt onto JFK's Limo, original report.
I jumped onto the left rear step of the Presidential automobile. Mrs. Kennedy shouted, "They've shot his head off;" then turned and raised out of her seat as if she were reaching to her right rear toward the back of the car for something that had blown out. I forced her back into her seat and placed my body above President and Mrs. Kennedy. SA Greer had, as I jumped onto the Presidential automobile, accelerated the Presidential automobile forward. I heard ASAIC Kellerman call SA Lawson on the two-way radio and say, "To the nearest hospital, quick." I shouted as loud as I could at the Lead car, "To the hospital, to the hospital."
Mrs. Connally who was immediately behind Greer in JFK's Limo, WC testimony.
Mr. DULLES. To the right was into your arms more or less?
Mrs. CONNALLY. No, he turned away from me. I was pretending that I was him. I never again looked in the back seat of the car after my husband was shot. My concern was for him, and I remember that he turned to the right and then just slumped down into the seat, so that I reached over to pull him toward me. X was trying to get him down and me down. The jump seats were not very roomy, so that there were reports that he slid into the seat of the car, which he did not; that he fell over into my lap, which he did not.
I just pulled him over into my arms because it would have been impossible to get us really both down with me sitting and me holding him. So that I looked out, I mean as he was in my arms, I put my head down over his head so that his head and my head were right together, and all I could see, too, were the people flashing by. I didn't look back any more. The third shot that I heard I felt, it felt like spent buckshot falling all over us, and then, of course, I too could see that it was the matter, brain tissue, or whatever, just human matter, all over the car and both of us.
I thought John had been killed, and then there was some imperceptible movement, just some little something that let me know that there was still some life, and that is when I started saying to him, "It's all right. Be still."
Now, I did hear the Secret Service man say, "Pull out of the motorcade. Take us to the nearest hospital," and then we took out very rapidly to the hospital.
Just before we got to Parkland, we made a right-hand turn, he must have been going very fast, because as he turned the weight of my husband's body almost toppled us both.
Mr. SPECTER How fast do you think he was going?
Mrs. CONNALLY. I don't know; very rapidly. The people I could see going by were just rushing. We were just rushing by very fast. We arrived at the hospital and sat there what seemed to me like an interminable time, and from what I know was just a few minutes, but the thoughts that went through my mind were how long must I sit here with this dying man in my arms while everybody is swarming over the President whom I felt very sure was dead, and just when I thought I could sit and wait no longer, John just sort of heaved himself up. He did not rise up in the car, he just sort of heaved himself up, and then collapsed down into the seat.
Jacqueline Kennedy who was beside her husband in the rear seat in JFK's Limo WC testimony
Mr. RANKIN. And did you stop at any time after the shots, or proceed about the same way?
Mrs. KENNEDY. I don't know, because--I don't think we stopped. But there was such confusion. And I was down in the car and everyone was yelling to get to the hospital and you could hear them on the radio, and then suddenly I remember a sensation of enormous speed, which must have been when we took off.
Mr. RANKIN. And then from there you proceeded as rapidly as possible to the hospital, is that right?
Mrs. KENNEDY. Yes.
Hickey in the follow up Queen Mary had his AR-15 ready close at hand and wasn't afraid to use it!
(https://i.postimg.cc/MpYCCVQX/jfk-hickey-with-rifle.jpg)
At the end of the last report I reached to the bottom of the car and picked up the AR 15 rifle, cocked and loaded it, and turned to the rear. At this point the cars were passing under the over-pass and as a result we had left the scene of the shooting. I kept the AR 15 rifle ready as we proceeded at a high rate of speed to the hospital.
Agent Clint Hill was riding across the rear and the top of IOOX in a horizontal position. He looked into the rear of IOOX and turned toward 679X and shook his head several times. I received the impression that the President at the least was very seriously injured. A few moments later shift leader Emory Roberts turned to the rest of us in the car and said words to the effect that when we arrive at the hospital some of us would have to give additional protection to the Vice President and take him to a place of safety. He assigned two of the agents in the car to this duty. I was told to have the AR 15 ready for use if needed.
Not one of them describe a STOP of any kind and why would they STOP especially since there was a medical emergency in which shot men needed URGENT medical attention right NOW! Please note, I normally don't capitalize words randomly but Royell seems to get off on it!
How about we examine the time it took to arrive at Parkland which according to Google was a little under four miles and let's see if they had enough time to STOP and have a spot of tea?
(https://i.postimg.cc/G3gTrTnn/Dealey-Plaza-to-Parkland.jpg)
Sorrels said they got to Parkland as fast as they could which probably means they didn't stop and then Sorrels went back to Dealey Plaza and said the round trip was about twenty minutes.
Mr. STERN - What happened next, Mr. Sorrels?
Mr. SORRELS - We proceeded to Parkland Hospital just as fast as we could.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. STERN - Just a minute.
How much time do you think elapsed from the time the shots were fired until the time you returned to the Book Depository?
Mr. SORRELS - I don't believe it could have been over about 20 minutes, because we went to the hospital just as fast as we possibly could, and I wasn't there very long. And we came back as fast as we could.
Lawson says they arrived at Parkland about 4 minutes later.
Upon our arrival there at approximately 12:34 p.m., I rushed into the emergency entrance, met persons coming with two stretchers and helped rush them outside. Governor Connally was being removed from the car when the stretchers arrived and he was placed on the first one.
Curry says to take them to Parkland "immediatley" which probably means not stopping and later in his testimony he says a little after 12:30
I said, "Take us to the hospital immediately," and I got on the radio and I told them to notify Parkland Hospital to stand by for an emergency
Mr. HUBERT - Well, perhaps you can arrive at it this way; you know the time you arrived there?
Mr. CURRY - It seemed we were there about 30 minutes at the hospital'-30 minutes or so, and we probably got there a little after 12:30, so that would have been around a little after I :15, I believe.
Clint Hill says they got there about 4 minutes after the shooting.
Mr. SPECTER. What is your best estimate of the distance from the time of the shooting to Parkland Hospital?
Mr. HILL. In time or--
Mr. SPECTER. Time and distance.
Mr. HILL. Distance, I have no idea.
Mr. SPECTER. How about time?
Mr. HILL. I would say roughly 4 minutes.
Greer just had instructions to go FAST and broadly estimated 6 or 8 minutes or in the vicinity of 5 and 10 minutes.
Mr. GREER. After he had said to me, "Get out of here fast." He got the radio and called to the lead car, "Get us to a hospital fast, nearest hospital fast."
Mr. SPECTER. From the time it took from the point of the shooting until you arrived at Parkland Hospital?
Mr. GREER. I didn't check anything but I thought that probably it would probably be 6 or 8 minutes, I am not too sure, somewhere in the vicinity of 5 and 10 minutes. I would have to guess at that.
Greer also says he had no idea where Parkland and needed the Lead Car to take them there which is more support that Curry and crew in the Lead Car were there and didn't go "Poof"!
Mr. SPECTER. Were you led to the hospital?
Mr. GREER. Yes, sir; I was led to the hospital by the police car who was preceding me.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you have any independent knowledge of the route from where you were?
Mr. GREER. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. From the point of assassination to the hospital?
Mr. GREER. No, sir; I didn't.
Kellerman said after Kennedy and Connally were in emergency the time was either 12:38 or 12:41.
I got the Washington operator and I said, identified myself, and I said, "Give me Mr. Behn."
Mr. Behn was in the office at the time, and I said--his name is Gerald Behn--and I said, "Gerry, we have had an incident here in Dallas. The President, the Governor have been shot, We are in the emergency room of the Parkland Memorial Hospital." I said, "Mark down the time." Of course, since that time until now we have disagreed on about 3 minutes. I said it is 12:38, which would be 1:38 Dallas time. I am sorry--Washington time.
Mr. SPECTER. Was that at the time you were talking to Mr. Behn?
Mr. KELLERMAN. To Mr. Behn; yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. And your version is that it is 12:38 Dallas time?
Mr. KELLERMAN. 12:38. He said it was 12:41; he told me the next day.
How about the Doctors?
Dr McClelland said he got to Emergency about 12:40
Mr. SPECTER - And what action, if any, did you take following that notification?
Dr. McCLELLAND - Immediately upon hearing that, I accompanied the Resident, Dr. Crenshaw, who brought this news to me, to the emergency room, and down to the trauma room 1 where President Kennedy had been taken immediately upon arrival.
Mr. SPECTER - And approximately what time did you arrive in Emergency Room 1?
Dr. McCLELLAND - This is a mere approximation, but I would approximate or estimate, rather, about 12:40.
Dr Carrico said that shortly after 12:30 he heard that the President had been shot and was on his way and 2 minutes or less later the President arrived.
Mr. SPECTER - Were you notified that there was an emergency case on the way to the hospital at approximately 12:30?
Dr. CARRICO - Yes.
Mr. SPECTER - In which President Kennedy was involved?
Dr. CARRICO - At that time I was in the emergency room seeing these patients and the call was received that the President had been shot and was on his way to the hospital.
Mr. SPECTER - What is your best recollection as to what time it was when you received that call?
Dr. CARRICO - This was probably shortly after 12:30.
Mr. SPECTER - And how long after that call was received did the President's party actually arrive at Parkland?
Dr. CARRICO - An estimation would be 2 minutes or less.
Dr Baxter got to Emergency about 12:40
Mr. Specter - And will you outline briefly the circumstances surrounding your being called to render such assistance?
Dr. Baxter - I was conducting the student health service in the hours of 12 to 1 and was contacted there by the supervisor of the emergency room, who told me that the President was on the way to the emergency room, having been shot.
I went on a dead run to the emergency room as fast as I could and it took me about 3 or 4 minutes to get there.
Mr. Specter - Approximately what time did you arrive at the emergency room?
Dr. Baxter - I think it was 12:40--thereabouts.
Dr Jenkins said he arrived at Emergency about 12:30-12:35 to 12:40.
Mr. SPECTER - At about what time did you arrive at the emergency room
Dr. JENKINS - Oh, this was around 12:30-12:35 to 12:40. I shouldn't be indefinite about this--in our own specialty practice, we watch the clock closely and there are many things we have to keep up with, but I didn't get that time exactly, I'll admit.
CONCLUSION
No one says they STOPPED in fact most indicated the exact opposite, that speed was of the essence. Across the board, the times seem pretty consistent and under the circumstances I don't think they would stop, or had enough time to stop. Royell's suggestion was that Kennedy's Limo stopped to retrieve weapons from the trunk, even though Royell claims they were already armed with handguns, to me that doesn't pass the sniff test.
So while we eagerly await Royell's proof we are stuck with logic and common sense!
JohnM ........................... (end of quote)
-
You do realize there is film footage of the Lead Car vs Motorcycle Officer Chaney trailing well behind it? Just how fast do you believe Officer Chaney would have to go in order to make up this vast distance between Him and the Lead Car as it led the JFK Limo to Parkland Hospital? And then once Chaney caught up to the Lead Car, how fast would both be and the Lead Car be going at that point? And just how would Curry and Chaney then conduct a conversation while traveling at that speed amidst the Lead Car trail blazing the race to Parkland Hospital? Think it through.
-
We discussed this very issue at length on this Forum something like 5 yrs ago. I am currently working/researching a couple other JFK Assassination issues, so I do Not have a lot of time to cover old ground. That said, I realize that some of you are relatively new to the JFK Assassination and issues such as the JFK Limo stopping at some point before reaching Parkland Hospital. Therefore, I will take this short time to help you gain some JFK Assassination Knowledge.
- SA WINSTON LAWSON WC TESTIMONY - (seated inside the LEAD CAR)
SA LAWSON - "........so that on the route from the Trade Mart to Parkland Hospital, which isn't very far, we had to do some STOPPING OF CARS and holding our hands out the windows and blowing the sirens and horns to get through."
- SA FORREST SORRELS WC TESTIMONY - (seated inside the LEAD CAR)
SA SORRELS - "And in the meantime, a motorcycle officer had run up on the RIGHT-HAND SIDE......."
Do you believe that Chief Curry, (who was driving the Lead Car), and Motorcycle Officer Chaney with both traveling at an extremely high speed, were having their conversation while screaming through/across the car?
-
We discussed this very issue at length on this Forum something like 5 yrs ago. I am currently working/researching a couple other JFK Assassination issues, so I do Not have a lot of time to cover old ground. That said, I realize that some of you are relatively new to the JFK Assassination and issues such as the JFK Limo stopping at some point before reaching Parkland Hospital. Therefore, I will take this short time to help you gain some JFK Assassination Knowledge.
- SA WINSTON LAWSON WC TESTIMONY - (seated inside the LEAD CAR)
SA LAWSON - "........so that on the route from the Trade Mart to Parkland Hospital, which isn't very far, we had to do some STOPPING OF CARS and holding our hands out the windows and blowing the sirens and horns to get through."
- SA FORREST SORRELS WC TESTIMONY - (seated inside the LEAD CAR)
SA SORRELS - "And in the meantime, a motorcycle officer had run up on the RIGHT-HAND SIDE......."
Do you believe that Chief Curry, (who was driving the Lead Car), and Motorcycle Officer Chaney with both traveling at an extremely high speed, were having their conversation while screaming through/across the car?
- SA WINSTON LAWSON WC TESTIMONY - (seated inside the LEAD CAR)
SA LAWSON - "........so that on the route from the Trade Mart to Parkland Hospital, which isn't very far, we had to do some STOPPING OF CARS and holding our hands out the windows and blowing the sirens and horns to get through."
You can't be serious.
He doesn't say that he stopped his car, he says as he was driving they were blowing the cars in front with horns and sirens, and at the same time they were waving away the cars in front with their arms out the windows which caused "Cars" plural to stop.
Personally if I driving while I was in front of a car which was approaching fast from behind, blasting it's sirens and horns with the passengers frantically waving out the windows I would pull over and get out of the way, what would you do?
- SA FORREST SORRELS WC TESTIMONY - (seated inside the LEAD CAR)
SA SORRELS - "And in the meantime, a motorcycle officer had run up on the RIGHT-HAND SIDE......."
Do you believe that Chief Curry, (who was driving the Lead Car), and Motorcycle Officer Chaney with both traveling at an extremely high speed, were having their conversation while screaming through/across the car?
Here's the extent of the of the 8 word conversation that you conveniently left out;
And, in the meantime, a motorcycle officer had run up on the right-hand side and the chief yelled to him, "Anybody hurt?"
He said, "Yes."
He said, "Lead us to the hospital."
You are so dishonest, but whatever it takes, eh Royell!
Btw is the best you got??
JohnM
-
You can't be serious.
He doesn't say that he stopped his car, he says as he was driving they were blowing the cars in front with horns and sirens, and at the same time they were waving away the cars in front with their arms out the windows which caused "Cars" plural to stop.
Personally if I driving while I was in front of a car which was approaching fast from behind, blasting it's sirens and horns with the passengers frantically waving out the windows I would pull over and get out of the way, what would you do?
Here's the extent of the of the 8 word conversation that you conveniently left out;
And, in the meantime, a motorcycle officer had run up on the right-hand side and the chief yelled to him, "Anybody hurt?"
He said, "Yes."
He said, "Lead us to the hospital."
You are so dishonest, but whatever it takes, eh Royell!
Btw is the best you got??
JohnM
"WE had to do some STOPPING of cars..............". "STOPPING of cars..." means what to you? STOPPING is crystal clear.
You're defeating your own argument when you say, "I would PULL OVER AND GET OUT OF THE WAY". This is the LEAD Car we are talking about. It is leading the JFK Limo/Motorcade to Parkland Hospital. If it PULLS OVER, those behind it also PULL OVER. You are now supporting a STOP!
-
"WE had to do some STOPPING of cars..............". "STOPPING of cars..." means what to you? STOPPING is crystal clear.
You're defeating your own argument when you say, "I would PULL OVER AND GET OUT OF THE WAY". This is the LEAD Car we are talking about. It is leading the JFK Limo/Motorcade to Parkland Hospital. If it PULLS OVER, those behind it also PULL OVER. You are now supporting a STOP!
Huh? I was clearly hypothesizing, if I was just an ordinary citizen driving along and from behind I was approached by a noisy gesticulating car I would pull over. Get it now?
JohnM
-
Huh? I was clearly hypothesizing, if I was just an ordinary citizen driving along and from behind I was approached by a noisy gesticulating car I would pull over. Get it now?
JohnM
Yeah, I get it. You now agree with my JFK Limo STOP.
-
Yeah, I get it. You now agree with my JFK Limo STOP.
Yep you caught me out.
If I was driving in my beat up Ford Falcon along the Pacific Highway, and an an Emergency vehicle in an obvious hurry pulls up behind me with flashing lights, blazing horn, ear piercing sirens and there were arms flailing about out the windows, I would stop and pull over and I'd expect the Emergency vehicle to also stop, then we'd shoot the breeze, have a ciggy and crack open a beer.
JohnM
-
-
Good find Felix. Thanx.
I took a screenprint at 2:25. And i have added some of my own wordage.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Vs3YRt22/lifton-motorcade-stop.jpg)
-
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?topic=3885.32
JFK 3 New Witnesses never heard before David Lifton Brent Holland Show nightfrightshow
14.7K subscribers Subscribed 44,200 views Oct 15, 2017
Donate: http://nightfrighshow.blogspot.com/ support & donate: http://nightfrighshow.blogspot.ca/
This is a volunteer show. It has no sponsors, no staff, no source of income. I need your help and support if I am to keep going. Donate as little as a dollar a month to help out. If you donate $2 or more I will send you a free copy of the documentary Abraham Bolden: 1st African American Secret Service Agent (handpicked by JFK himself) click here to donate and support: http://nightfrighshow.blogspot.ca/ / nightfrightshow
http://www.stitcher.com/s?fid=48091&r...
David Lifton - Renowned JFK researcher / author "Best Evidence"
For the first time ever David Lifton reveals 3 new witnesses who he has found. David will reveal what they saw and the revelations this means for what we thought we knew about November 22, 1963 and Dealey Plaza. This is going to be ground breaking folks! Don't go anywhere, that's what Night Fright brings you, the latest cutting edge research on the Kennedy assassination. No other show does that. Now, I am going to go off the beaten track somewhat and read an extended version of David's bio because it contains many things about David you may not be aware of.
David grew up in Rockaway Beach, New York. Cornell University's School of Engineering Physics in 1962 and thereupon enrolled in the University of California, Los Angeles to work on an advance degree in engineering. While there Lifton moon lighted as a computer engineer for North American Aviation, a contractor for, excuse me folks, only the Apollo program. As early as 1964, David became interested in the anomalies of the Kennedy conspiracy. David had attended a lecture given by Mark Lane and was hooked. Lifton purchased a set of the 26 volumes of the Warren Commission's investigation and started his own research on the Kennedy case. The January 1967 issue of Ramparts magazine presented a "special report" by Lifton, with David Welsh, entitled "The Case for Three Assassins" that laid out the scenario that more than one assassin was firing at Kennedy based on anomalies in the medical evidence.
In 1993, Lifton was played by Robert Picardo in the television movie Fatal Deception: Mrs. Lee Harvey Oswald. He testified before the Assassination Records Review Board in September 1996, and provided the Board with various materials including 35mm interpositives of the Zapruder film, as well as copies of audiotapes, videotapes, and transcripts of witness interviews he conducted.
Bill Blackwell is a regular on this show and with good reason. He brings is expertise as a lawyer and his unique perspective in covering the JFK conspiracy. He is also integral in the law suit against the Federal Government over what is commonly called "Chem Trails".
Please share all Night Fright Show videos with your friends. Thanks for being a fan!
-
Transcript
0:19 you 0:27 Showtime welcome to the show I'm Brent Holland and welcome one and all to night fright 0:33 there was a gorgeous Sun setting along Lake Ontario tonight as I drove into 0:38 this studio just a perfect perfect night now the temperatures dropping a little 0:43 bit it's fall it's the perfect night to jump in your most comfy chair grab a comforter tonight as well get the coffee 0:50 going get the tea going or a beverage of choice relax and take this time for 0:56 yourselves you deserve it tonight we dive head on in to the JFK 1:01 assassination with a living legend none other than David liftin is joining us 1:06 tonight more than any other book authored David's groundbreaking book 1:11 best evidence on the JFK body autopsy alterations is the most reference book 1:18 by all my JFK guests who come on this show so if you are intrigued by the 1:24 Kennedy assassination you absolutely oh it to yourself to get a copy of this book for your shelf best evidence now 1:32 all the links mentioned on tonight's show as always folks will be on our web site triple w dot nightfright show.com
1:39 now his new book which is due at any moment apparently he tells me final 1:45 charade and just as an aside last last year David was on and we had two special 1:51 shows on night fright both shows are in the archives are just Google simply Google David liftin night fright shown 1:57 the videos will pop up we went in depth somewhat on his new book final charade we're gonna discuss even more new 2:05 evidence that david has found and witnesses that have never come forward 2:10 before now he's going to reveal witnesses folks that were standing at 2:16 the Stemmons freeway for the very first time tonight ever David is going to 2:23 reveal what they saw and what the revelations this means for what we 2:29 thought we knew about what took place November 22nd 1963 in Dealey Plaza this 2:38 folks is going to be nothing short of groundbreaking so don't go anywhere
2:43 that's what night fright brings to you the latest cutting-edge research on the Kennedy assassination no other show does 2:50 that now I'm gonna go off the beaten track for a few seconds here I want to read an extended version of David's bio 2:56 because it contains many things about David you may not be aware of
3:01 now David grew up in Rockaway Beach New York Cornell University School of 3:07 Engineering he graduated from in physics no less in 1962 and then he enrolled in 3:14 the University of California Los Angeles to work on an advanced degree in engineering now while there David 3:21 moonlighted Believe It or Not as a computer engineer for North American Aviation a contractor by the way folks 3:28 for excuse me the Apollo program yeah I bet you didn't know he worked on the 3:34 Apollo program did you as early as 1964 David became interested in the anomalies 3:40 at the Kennedy conspiracy David had attended a lecture by the late Mark Lane good friend of mine a 3:46 wonderful man you find his archives about his show in our archives as well David became hooked
David did something 3:54 unusual folks he went out and he actually bought the full 26 volumes of 3:59 the Warren Commission's investigation and started his own research on the 4:04 Kennedy case by January 67 there was an issue of ramparts magazine presented a 4:12 special report by David liftin with David Welsh entitled the case for the 4:17 three assassins essentially it laid out the scenario that more than one assassin 4:24 was firing at Kennedy based on the anomalies of the medical evidence
in 4:30 1993 David became somewhat of a movie star if you will 4:35 Witten was played by none other than Robert Picardo in the television movie fatal deception mrs. Lee Harvey Oswald
4:43 David also testified before the assassination records review in September 1996 and provided the board 4:51 with various materials including a 35 dimitr inter positives of the Sapru der 4:59 film we're gonna see if we can get into that by the end of the show as well as copies of audio tapes video tapes and 5:05 transcripts of witnesses interviews he conducted
now bill blackwell you'longitudinal 5:11 notice is here sporting his new cowboy hat which is actually really really 5:17 expensive folks he was telling me just how much he purchased it for and Wow but it really it really looks nice and he's 5:25 made a gift of one for his wife as well as very classy bill I have to admit bill 5:30 Blackwell's a regular on their show and with good reason he brings a unique expertise as a lawyer he is also 5:37 integral in the lawsuit against the federal government over what is commonly called chemtrails 5:43 it is my great pleasure to welcome back to the show both david liftin and bill 5:48 black well
let's start out with David David how are you this evening I'm sorry thank you Bill how you doing 5:55 I'm doing good I'm doing good for having us thank you for coming back on ok David6:03 brand new evidence where should we start
November 22nd 1963 Kennedy's just been 6:09 shot we look at this approver film we see mrs. Kennedy trying to get out Clint 6:15 Hill comes and pushes her back into the limousine it takes off towards the Stemmons freeway
can you pick it up right there 6:22 and tell us what you found out sure when the car moved down Elm Street 6:28 passed under the triple underpass and went about a quarter to three eighths of a mile further down to get onto the 6:35 Stemmons freeway and the stennis freeway is called i-35 and it was going to go northbound 6:42 on Stemmons to the exit that we but heavy news had Kennedy not been murdered 6:48 for the trademark where he was to give a luncheon speech and of course a quarter mile past the Trade Mart is Parkland 6:54 Hospital
anyway it speeds down under the triple underpass and to get onto 7:00 Stemmons we have to go understand this freeway and onto an on-ramp and standing 7:06 at that location to three-eighths of a mile past Dealey 7:12 Plaza were three young folks about my age now who are about well as matter 7:19 fact they're young to me there are sixteen seventeen years old they were juniors and seniors in an Oak Cliff high 7:26 school and they the principal had announced the day before if you wish to 7:32 see President Kennedy arrive at Love Field that's the absence for which you will not be penalized excusable etc and 7:39
one of them I'm calling him Seth Nichols sat at a car and he said well I'm gonna 7:45 go to Love Field and anybody else want to come with me and two people 7:51 volunteered yes one of them is someone I'm calling Sarah Carter and the other 7:57 one is a fellow named Pat
all these people are real solid citizens is I'll to describe in a few minutes so they set 8:04 out insects car for Love Field and we're there at the fence when Kennedy arrived 8:11 and Seth has provided me with photographs showing himself at the fence 8:18 bobbing up and down which we'll get to in another broadcast someday when we get into his real name and get honest-to-god 8:25 genuine footage which I already have you know on a major national TV network he's 8:31 a really important witness well all three of them are so they watch Kennedy come down the ramp the steps of the 8:38 plane they got within about ten fifteen feet of him you know the whole event was over for them in a few seconds let's say 8:44 ten twenty thirty seconds and they said okay let's go back to high school so they got back in sets car and
they 8:51 were proceeding down Stemmons freeway that is southbound on Stemmons from the 8:57 area of Love Field back towards Oak Cliff when Seth had an idea in Seth's 9:03 idea was they said you know if I pull over in the fast lane on Stemmons freeway which is not the safest thing to 9:10 do I mean you have to have a certain amount of ability to and to do this to pull over on the fast lane of a highway 9:16 but if it gets off the shoulder the road and gets out of the way they could exit 9:21 the car on the left side the driver's side and walk across the grassy median and they 9:27 could be where Stemmons freeway will you come on from Elm Street the on-ramp
so 9:32 they all kind of being adventurous said okay let's do that so he pulled over on 9:38 the left side and they all exited the car and Sandra at high heels which 9:45 weren't the greatest idea because it had been raining and she was concerned about what her mom might say about this little 9:51 stunt but they all went across the grassy median remember they had no raise 9:56 it radios the last radio they had was in the car when they heard they heard you know motorcade progressing through 10:01 Dallas in the normal fashion so they were standing right at where the on-ramp from Elm Street comes under Stemmons 10:09 freeway and then joined Stemmons freeway going northbound so they were right 10:15 there
and we'll show an aerial photograph which I sent you you can see their location and I would say that they 10:22 were like within 10 feet 15 feet of the carpus no one else was there I mean nobody chose to stand at Stemmons 10:28 freeway for an event yeah they're all the folks were in Duty Plaza that was the last exit after you exited downtown 10:35 but this was the next you know landmark you might say on the way to the Trade Mart and they were there because of this 10:41 business of having visited Love Field and having then gone southbound on Stemmons so they were there and here's 10:47 what happened the car
Seth was the most observant of the three I believe it's 10:53 just the way he is and it manifests itself and his later career choices and everything he was in the Air Force he was in the police department 10:59 he runs a significant business of
anyway he was he sees the car come around and the first thing that happens is first he 11:06 hears the sounds of the motorcyclist then comes from motorcycles then comes the limo going very slow and it stops
11:11 and what he sees on the back of the limo is Jacqueline Kennedy desperately trying 11:17 to get out of the limo and heading across the turtle back of the car 11:22 towards the left rear taillight
now this all happens very quickly a Secret 11:28 Service agent who of course we know to be Clint Hill steps down to the fender of the car or is already on the fender 11:35 and pushes her back into her seat
now in saying this I want to make clear that this is not what 11:43 happened this is a different event separate and different from what had happened 10 15 20 seconds before and 11:49 giving Plaza this is a second attempt by Jacqueline Kennedy to exit the limousine 11:54 because Clint Hill had already pushed her back into the limousine on Dealey Plaza an event that had been 12:00 photographed on the zipper to film
okay so now we're a minute or so after that 12:05 and she's trying to do this again and the car is stopped
Seth says to himself 12:11 something's wrong but of course the whole event is over within 10-15 seconds because she's pushed back into her seat
12:17 and the moat the car then slowly accelerates close up the rest of the way 12:22 of course to the Stemmons freeway and then it's over now they turn around the 12:28 events over and they go back to their automobile they get into the car and they proceed the rest of the way down 12:35 south on Stemmons to whatever road they needed to take to get back to Oak Cliff 12:40 and to the high school
at the high school of course by that time the 12:45 assassination was being reported on the radio time flies by and to cut to the 12:50 chase it's then announced that Kennedy has died there's a lot of crying and sobbing and the rest of the story as you 12:56 know it now here's what's very interesting about this we all learned 13:02 about the assassination through the wire service reports being read by Walter Cronkite and the other major announcers 13:09 and
then for those who don't know let me tell you that the first frames of the 13:15 ZURB brutal film will published a week later on Friday not as a motion picture just somewhere between five and ten 13:21 frames were published carried by the wire services and of course that same 13:26 week Life magazine published the first issue dated November 29 1963 with a 13:32 bunch of black-and-white photos and then came the memorial edition the week later and that had the iconic pictures of 13:40 Jackie and her pink suit out on the back of the turtleneck
does he have the turtle back of the car of course I don't 13:46 know and and I guess I Seth about this what did he first think when he saw this and he he realized at 13:54 some level that well we saw was three-eighths of a mile to quarter mile later it's not the same event
but you 14:00 know they didn't they didn't react by saying oh let's go to the FBI or let's do this or that they're caught up in the 14:06 events of the assassination just like anybody else and they weren't at the scene where President Kennedy was murdered and the 14:13 significance of what they witnessed wasn't really particularly apparent to 14:18 them because and it didn't become apparent to Seth for quite some time
so now let's go trace back what happened 14:24 Life magazine is published there's no internet then there's no separate of film as a movie then nothing of a sort 14:32 happens we got to go forward then the wire reports published and of course it crosses sets mind and the others gee how 14:39 come this event we witnessed isn't in the Warren Commission report how come nobody else knows about this and
I don't 14:46 know how much it bothered him I asked him this when I interviewed him at length on camera I have this whole story 14:53 recorded on camera as well as the account of his female companion Sarah 14:59 sandy sorry I had worldís on camera when did Seth first start to realize that 15:04 something wasn't quite right
well it was a gradual thing that grew over the years 15:10 because the next year he was out of high school then he has a whole history of what happened between high school and 10 15:16 20 30 years later and he was he went through a number of different occup occupational affiliations one was with 15:23 the Dallas Police Department he told me he was on SWAT then he was in the Air Force he was out in the Far East and I 15:29 think he was connected with microwave electronic communications in the Philippine area then he came back and of 15:36 course years later he went into business for himself he got married he said he was married to his wife for over 30 40 15:42 years if two children
I visited with him at his home he's a hunter he owns a business he's very credible and so is 15:49 assigned a
Sandra who became an American 15:54 airline stewardess for over 20 years and
the third person who was there his first 16:01 name is Pat he became and is today in your retirement days in a significant 16:06 position in the field of education in Texas
so he had these three folks but at the one where the thing really was an 16:13 itch that bothered him was Seth and over the years and I was doing my best to 16:18 trace this over the years this itch got more intense a little bit more intense especially with the advent of the 16:24 Internet
now I don't know that he ever watched the Robert Groden broadcast on Geraldo show in 1975 Marx 16:32 that was when nationally people could see it as a brutal film and also portions of it of course were broadcast 16:39 during the House Select Committee hearings when there were the theories about the acoustic evidence but certainly by the time of the internet 16:45 let's say 1995 Seth had to reconcile you might say two conflicting images in his 16:53 head
what he went memberid witnessing which he'll never forget Jackie out on the trunk and everything with is a 16:59 brooder film which stops of course after the frame 400 whatever and he goes under 17:04 the underpass and there's no further reportage I mean certainly it's not going to be on as a Reuters camera and it was never reported in the Warren 17:11 Commission report there were no FBI and
most important of all it's not in any Secret Service report so in other words 17:17 the Secret Service know that car stopped on the stamens freeway on-ramp they know that Jacqueline tried to get out
these 17:24 guys will learn the follow up are and you know one or more of them the jumped to the president's car attempting to 17:30 rescue him these guys know what happened there must have been a talk of the White House detail and she tried to get out of 17:36 that car none of that was in the Warren Report and with the years passed in the passing of years he started to wonder 17:43 why not and what is the significance of what I saw it
when I interviewed him I asked him on camera more than once 17:50 because I wanted to really get this to be a matter of record do you have a theory as to what you saw it what is the 17:57 significance of what you saw and his response was a very honest and humble no
be sure it no I know as I verified 18:05 there's no theory there's no hypothesis he's pushing and all that kind of stuff none of that he just was bothered 18:12 existentially by the fact that he witness something that he knew belonged 18:17 in the history books at least as a footnote it wasn't there
so what 18:23 happened was this was brought to my attention in February of 2016 by someone 18:30 who was at a teacher's take for a teachers assignment in Texas and he was having lunch in the lunchroom 18:37 or in the teachers lounge or something and he spoke to someone else you have to be a friend of Seth's and she said I have a friend who has an 18:44 interesting story about the assassination and he contacted me
I was put in touch with Seth I heard the whole 18:49 story in mid-february 2016 we made it to my friend John Martinson longtime friend 18:56 John Martinson who was head of the North Dakota School Board Association and I said you know we just really ought to be 19:01 on camera now we want to put something on camera back in the days of when I first did the best evidence it cost 19:07 approximately five thousand dollars a shoot you have to get it no sound man and film man and you got to go on an airplane and you got a rent hotel and by 19:14 the time you've true believe me of course between thirty five hundred and five thousand dollars a shoot it's a little bit less now because of what I 19:21 call the Best Buy phenomenon anybody can walk into a Best Buy get a reasonably 19:26 decent camera and call themselves an oral historian and the some folks that are doing that and they're not the most 19:32 professional on their approach to questioning but they do it it's better than nothing
okay well John said I'm 19:37 gonna do something about this and he actually borrowed money took out a loan on his house to finance a really 19:43 professional film shoot so we went to the Dallas Fort Worth area and here's what we do tell the witnesses that is Seth and 19:50 Sandra came to Seth's lovely home and we first I did a 19:56 beautiful interview with Seth on camera then Sandra will got arrived then she we 20:02 kept her separated because we didn't want them interacting and hearing what each other said then I did a beautiful 20:07 interview with Sandra and
then I said look let's go down to the NE Plaza and 20:14 do this again just the way 60 minutes would do let's go down there and do the whole thing again reenact this just 20:20 where you were standing and go through this again so we went to Dealey Plaza and did the whole thing again 20:29 and it's not that easy to do by the way with our professional videographer
then 20:34 we went back up to the room John and I had rented over at the Hyatt while on 20:40 duty Plaza I forget the name with the Hyatt whenever it is I'm sorry I'm having a memory loss so we were up there 20:45 and I said okay now let's have a frank discussion on what this could mean and we sat down turned on the camera again 20:52 and I just wanted this for a matter of record and I went through a number of different hypotheses as to what this 21:00 could mean
now isandro listened I mean she was really new to this whole business of 21:05 Kennedy assassination research seth was a little bit more familiar with it but 21:10 he was kind of like wide-eyed but since then he's become quite a student of the 21:15 case I no question about it and of course because of the Internet you must understand and I don't care whether it's 21:21 you know whether it's a matter of geology or literature or anything and Google you can now get yourself a pretty 21:27 good you know fundamental education by just going to the internet googling and looking up things so he's become quite 21:34 familiar with all the different issues and what are the issues anyway about this why is this important without going 21:40 into every single facet of it one thing is
it shows that Jacqueline Kennedy wanted to get out of that car 21:45 now why is she trying to get out of the car a quarter mile after Dealey Plaza she's 21:51 not trying to escape from Lee Harvey Oswald that's for sure that's for sure I mean who's 250 300 feet away whatever 21:58 that's over those shots stopped so why is she trying to get out of the car that's number one
you have to also take 22:04 into account that in the weeks or months following the assassination according to William Manchester who got to know exactly well and his other reports 22:11 Jacqueline was very suspicious and hostile towards some of the Secret Service agents
so there's that issue and 22:17 there's a number of other issues but this is just the beginning of the other issue to me which is the most important 22:23 one is how is it possible for this event to have occurred and not be in the Secret Service reports filed by Clint 22:29 Hill Paul Landis and all the others okay these Secret Service reports were submitted formally to the Warren 22:36 Commission in the spring of 1964 they had been gone over by the general 22:41 counsel of the C service of the Treasury Department and so a decision must have been made this incident is not to be reported
it's 22:48 impossible to believe that the agents don't know about it it's ridiculous so now the question is - Seth wrong okay is 22:56 it possible he's just imagined this or some such thing and I'll be very interested in seeing when this stuff is 23:01 made public in a venue comparable to let's say c-span or national network 23:07 what the response of the surviving Secret Service agents are going to be or they going to say oops we forgot or they 23:14 can I say no this never happened or what I'm interested but this is very important evidence and that's why I'm 23:21 privileged to bring this up on the show and reveal it we have the entire account 23:26 the John and I made the film of the March 1983 2016 at Seth's home and we 23:35 have two of the witnesses that is he and Sandra on camera and then we went down to Dealey Plaza
the third witness 23:41 we couldn't find at the time he wasn't but I we found him later and I did him on telephone and I guess I could do that 23:47 all on skype and get that on video too but that's the situation and it's very 23:52 significant and raises very serious questions about the integrity of the Secret Service investigation into this
23:59 and any reports folks if you're just joining us David Lifton's with us 24:04 tonight and he's just telling some explosive explosive new witnesses that 24:09 have come forth and their testimony essentially what's happened is david has found three new witnesses brand new 24:15 witnesses that were just outside of Dealey Plaza on the Stemmons freeway on 24:20 the on-ramp and according to these witnesses as david has just related to 24:26 us stunning revelations jacqueline kennedy tried to get out of the car once 24:31 again right on the ramp
and then continued first time this has come out this is amazing david now i bill hasn't 24:38 got a lot of time but i want to get this one questioning in and then i'm going to turn it over to bill for some questions
24:44 you're familiar with Edie Hoffman's story he's the deaf-mute who says he was also 24:53 on this he witnessed the shooter behind the grassy knoll and he also witnessed the 24:59 car coming up the on-ramp and he said that they had machine guns out and that was verified are you familiar with his 25:06 story at all David
yes I've not looked 25:14 into it carefully I saw on Hoffman presents his account in 1993 in one of 25:19 the research carelessness I don't know much more about it than that I was just wondering if they were if the three 25:25 witnesses you saw ever mentioned at Hoffman or at all
no no no he was that I 25:32 think Hoffman was connected with the triple overpass these witnesses are three-quarters of a mile further to the 25:39 west okay Emmons freeway on-ramp okay yeah actually he was just above the 25:45 on-ramp
I'm gonna turn it over to Bill I know you've got a leave bill and I want you to be able to get some questions in 25:52 for David oh well I David his mention is 25:57 to me in the past under a confidentiality since I've done some legal work for David in the past so I'm 26:03 pretty well familiar with the story I just always waiting for him to come forward and bring it public so I'm 26:11 familiar with this the one thing that's that's important about this from an evidentiary perspective is that these 26:18 are corroborated witnesses this isn't just one witness you know a lot of people go like I didn't see this or this 26:23 guy's making this up these are three different people okay and and very 26:28 credible they they're not pushing anything they don't have an agenda they haven't written a book they haven't you know all all of these things that people 26:35 always say about the people that you know don't believe in the government story say all these people come up with 26:41 all these agendas and they've got an agenda to push these people don't have an agenda they didn't you know they 26:46 weren't out there publicizing this and so that makes this very credible if 26:52 you're in a court of law today would be very credible witnesses and there and they corroborate one another
another question that comes to 26:58 mind as well is why did they wait so long before coming forward were they 27:04 intimidated by all the deaths of the witnesses that were taking place the 60s and the 70s I don't know I don't 27:12 believe so what happened I think was he I I don't think anybody sat there and 27:18 just waited what happened was that they didn't I don't think that the senior of the three Seth really had a full 27:26 appreciation or a much of an appreciation for what he had witnessed until a period of time passed and he 27:34 found it that what he had witnessed wasn't in any official account in other words it starts with the next week I 27:40 think and I went through this very carefully with him on camera what happened when life is but was well life is published and that was it
the fact 27:46 that they saw something in addition and not contradictory but in addition to what was being published who's just you 27:55 know like a footnote and asterisk at the end of the sentence and then the same phenomena is repeated and that Lauren 28:01 report comes out again there an asterisk at the end of the sentence Gyr why isn't 28:06 what I saw included if this is the world's most thorough investigation then go to the first anniversary in a second 28:12 and the fifth in the tenth and to me from what and they're very busy lives he's out in the Philippines is in the 28:17 Air Force one thing in another and I really believe that it took the internet 28:22 then the advent of the Internet in 1995 so now subtract or whatever number of 28:28 years it is from 1 95 twelve five twenty two years for him to be in his later 28:33 years in life
okay we all get older we all realize our lives are finite and says gee you know how come this thing 28:39 which was an asterisk at the end of a sentence never has been in any public record and embodied by this 28:46 existentially that's the word I would use it was an existential irritant to him and it grew with time and then he 28:54 had mentioned it to a neighbor or a friend of his she was a teacher in the school system there was a fellow in the 29:02 school system who was teaching on a temporary basis Peter Lupe he was in the lunchroom he had this conversation 29:09 because he is a researcher in the assassination she was relating the story about her neighbor or her friend and he 29:16 said oh that would be something that would be a great interest to David liftin
and introduction was performed and 29:22 in a month John Martinson was taking out money in an equity loan at this house to 29:27 finance a film shoot so well it took a long time for this thing to purpley percolate to get to the and bubble up to 29:33 the surface john acted immediately nd i give him great credit because now we've got a film of this not only of their 29:40 accounts but then going down to Dealey Plaza just to wait 60 minutes would have done but here's the difference
if you go 29:47 to 60 minutes today and say oh why don't you do this show they go what you know 29:52 that these people in the media they they're very resistant to doing anything 29:57 unless there's a news angle or something that makes it you know very important to suddenly be done and that's one of the 30:04 reasons I'm on your show today because we want to get this thing out and we want to get a major this these witnesses 30:11 should be on c-span
I want these witnesses nationally televised I want to see the response of 30:17 the Secret Service agent who even knew about it through hearsay or because they 30:23 were there what's your excuse for not having this in your reports what instructions were you given
nobody 30:29 decided by the way no individual said I'm not going to include this this is a policy decision I'm The Secret Service 30:35 at the level of the chief and the deputy chief and up at the level of the Treasury secretary of the United States 30:41 and his assistant we're not going to let this be known why
oh and I have to add something this is a very very important 30:48 footnote when Jacqueline Kennedy came back to Washington she's closeted with 30:54 Bobby Kennedy and Secretary of Defense McNamara up on the 17th floor of the thursda Naval Hospital and then she went 31:00 back in the ambulance to the White House after the autopsy was over 4:30 or 5:00 well she gets back to the White House 31:07 she's still wearing an awful dress with all the blood on it and she's being undressed assisted being undressed for 31:14 the evening did some sleep by her longtime assistant Probie and here's 31:19 what Probie said and I found this and I was amazed to find this somewhere in a public record Probie said that 31:25 Jacqueline at five o'clock in the morning when she was helping her and assisting her undress said to Probie I 31:31 was so scared I thought they were going to shoot me too quote-unquote I was so scared I thought 31:39 they were gonna shoot me too
this stuff is really important and it has to be aired and I really look forward to it 31:47 being aired well Clint Hill is still alive while poor Landis is still alive and the others and I want to hear what 31:53 they have to say about this and they wish to say at that time that this never 31:59 happened
I want to see their demeanor on camera when they say such remarks 32:04 because I'll tell you one thing I'll vouch for these witnesses they're as good as gold and I've been in this 32:09 business a long while certainly not as experienced as a Regulus television correspondent but I've interviewed quite 32:14 a few assassination witnesses on camera and I'm a good judge if he will behave in a demeanor these people are credible
I'm going to 32:22 ask you both the same question but I know bills under a time restraint so I'm going to ask him this one first from a 32:28 legal perspective bill why would they admit that and what are the consequences 32:33 of them admitting that and the same with David after well you know all you have 32:41 to only have to know about what came out from the government is that things were 32:47 covered up I mean it's just it's crystal clear and we have now all these new documents that have been released over 2:53 the years and and we know things happened that weren't recorded that 32:59 didn't want to be the the Warren Commission didn't want in their report they didn't want anything that was going 33:04 to show that there was any kind of conspiracy or cover-up or anything like that so you know the this is this is 33:12 gold you know this this goes and it goes right and as David said this goes right to the Secret Service should have been 33:18 and it should have been in the reports not in the report why is in the report Young's you'd have to ask him okay buddy 33:24 but if they did but they wanted a it didn't fit with the script let me just put it that way didn't fit with the 33:30 script of what they wanted to portray to the American people all right and it's in it's it's terrible it's it's you know 33:36 it again they lie and they know they lied so can charge that can surely be 33:43 levied at the Secret Service for admitting that
well no I don't think any 33:48 charges could be levied again all the times passing her things you know it just it just goes to you know 33:54 the incompetency we're not the uncommon CIA this was probably done on purpose as 33:59 David said it had to be approved and and they didn't let you know they went they would they would have gone a 34:05 second-by-second what was observed and and they were going to put in the report what they wanted and they were going to leave that other report what they didn't 34:11 want so you know yeah that says no this is no surprise that was not in the 34:17 report you know this is but this information of these witnesses coming forward today this is golden this is this is great 34:24 stuff and and with that I've got to run III apologize David we'll talk later
34:30 Bren thank you so much for having us on the air again always a pleasure to have you on the doors open anytime you want 34:36 please give my best Angela thank you thanks so much for joining us the JFK 34:41 assassination the definitive book from inside the Oval Office to Davi Plaza 34:48 first person witness accounts for tea wars right now they decide to show
back 34:58 with David liftin folks were talking about his new revelations he's brought forward tonight that he has found are 35:03 you ready for this three new witnesses that were just outside of the V Plaza 35:08 that witnessed the car carrying Kennedy carrying Connolly up the ramp then mrs. 35:17 Kennedy tried to get it once again I'm not talking about the first time she tried to get out when Clint Hill first 35:23 raced towards her and pushed her back in the car we're talking about a second incident that took place on the on ramp 35:30 getting on the Stemmons freeway which would take the car to Parkland Hospital 35:35
mrs. Kennedy tried to get out of that car once again Clint Hill pushed her back in the car why do you think that 35:42 mrs. Kennedy tried to get out of the car was there something nefarious going on inside the car or perhaps you know we 35:47 know the first time she tried to get out of the car to grab a piece of President 35:53 Kennedy's head his head came apart she thought that's the official story that's the official explanation dreamed up by 36:00 somebody in the south we are we is whether she tried to get out of the car on both occasions for the same 36:06 reason well whether she I've never really bought the official story that she was trying to get out to get a piece 36:12 of the blame that's something that was manufactured five to eight days later and
it's a great story and it's puts an 36:18 end to any discussion about why is she trying to get out of the car but when you see it happen again three-eighths of 36:24 a mile a quarter-mile later you'll have to raise some serious questions as to her reasons for attempting to get out of 36:31 the car and why she felt in jeopardy a quarter-mile later that's the key question that we have to give you 36:39 perspective on the wine do you have any speculation yeah I have a lot I'm not gonna kick it I kick it into the details 36:47 but I'll tell you one thing that that it certainly doesn't bode well for the Secret Service when I say that for 36:52 certain agents and Jacqueline is not around to give us a full you know completely uncensored account you know 37:03 when she testified with Bobby at her side of the Georgetown home that was clearly very edited because she even 37:10 went into the business of the single Bullet theory a little bit she has a line in that testimony as well they said he was sit by the same berliner I'm not 37:17 sure sure that blah blah blah
look I don't know exactly the details we don't have she's not around anymore to provide 37:24 those details but I'll tell you there are a couple of agents that are around and if they spoke the truth we would 37:31 have the details we would have their perspective which would be most valuable and there was one thing I would like to 37:36 say that add to what bill said bill said he didn't think there could be any prosecution and all that and I 37:42 understand where he's coming from but if you view the assassination kind of like 37:49 as a fake news event and a friend of mine is a psychologist has said this is the template for future fake news events 37:55
I mean the differences in fake news we think of it as being just simply fake words false words in the Kennedy 38:01 assassination you've got a backdrop of falsified evidence whether it's a sniper's nest in this 19 you know 38:06 there's rifle up there in the three shells and the business of the autopsy being falsify so it's it's more than just fake news as if we were dealing 38:13 with a false written account we're dealing with falsified evidence that a false narrative okay 38:19 well my question would be Congress passed a law you know making the assassination of the president a federal 38:25 crime that was the next year so my question legally would be if you have a 38:31 conspiracy that's perpetuated over the years whether it's one five ten twenty 38:36 or even thirty five or forty as in this case and you have a false account being 38:41 perennial II perpetuated don't those people have any legal liability for 38:48 perpetuating this thing because I understand that the law can't be retroactive to 63 okay that's the murder 38:55 what about the cover-up if the cover-up is perpetuated 64 65 70 75 80 90 95 39:03 we're in 2017 if people are alive today who are perpetuating this cover-up and 39:08 they're called before a federal grand jury for example asked to raise their right hand and testify and I would like 39:14 to see that happen to the surviving Secret Service agents let's call both groups before a grand jury
I know what 39:21 my the witnesses I've been to be able to say let's see what the Secret Service guys are going to say but they can say 39:27 okay games over I don't want to spend the rest of my life with my retirement money 39:32 hiring attorneys give me immunity I'll tell you what happened that's one outcome another outcome is that they're 39:38 just gonna lie again now I I don't know what it's going to happen but there is where I make a distinction bill saying 39:45 well I don't think with the extended legal remedy I think there is something of a legal remedy here these agents are 39:51 alive one of them is publishing books about his glorious career well he doesn't include this in his glorious 39:57 career I think he should be questioned under oath before a grand jury
let's see him whether or not he makes the choice 40:03 to tell the truth before a grand jury and exit you know his mortal coil as 40:10 Shakespeare would say you know having left the truthful record behind well whether we're going to have a repeat of 40:15 this fake news from 1963 that nothing happened they after a Dealey Plaza and 40:21 up to Parkland Hospital when they may have been a lot that happened and that's why Jackie's trying to get the heck out 40:27 of the car so I mean that's the account that's what those who that's what the stakes are and I'm not going further 40:33 than that although I must tell you that I have a lot much further research to report about this and the time will come 40:39 when I will put it all in print I don't mean to be a ghoul at all or graphic or 40:44 anything like that but it's a question that has to be asked given their vantage point were they able to see any of the 40:51 wounds not only in Canada Kennedy but perhaps Connally and were they able to confirm that perhaps the back of 40:58 Kennedy's head was blown out ask no you're not being fair question and the 41:04 answer the short answer is no they it all happened too fast and there were a distance however the chief witness points out that he couldn't even I'm 41:11 thinking I'm trying to never exactly what Seth said it so I might and some I filmed record that they couldn't even 41:17 see Connolly he was so crouched down with Nellie over and they couldn't make cierra they're focused on his focus is 41:24 on mrs. Kennedy and it happens within 10 seconds and it
you know there's the law 41:30 school thing done lost the professors do in evidence classes and they a man runs across the stage interrupts the lecture 41:36 maybe fires are done with a blanket or there's something and yes the students describe the guy it's very very 41:42 difficult when something happens so fast to recollect it correctly
so the answer 41:47 is no there was no information whatsoever about wounds not the other thing it sounds like the James take story folks the James Tague was the 41:53 third man injured in Dealey Plaza that day by a ricochet and the FBI when they 41:59 did their first investigation for the Warren Report knew about James Tague being wounded but never mentioned him at 42:06 all in the first Warren Report
this sounds something very similar were the 42:13 authorities aware when they were doing the Warren Report that these three witnesses existed short answer no not at 42:21 all I never heard no that tag is different tag was interviewed certainly I remember 42:28 there's a meet December 1964 a 63 report and then this question of is Harold 42:33 iceberg points out and other people have you know and then he's that reports ignored and then it took more pressure 42:39 and finally they call tag as a witness I think in July 1964 in fact justified Leibler I think took his 42:46 deposition but no not in this case these three folks there's no mention to them 42:51 none whatsoever and so no is it's not so much a failure well it is a failure of 42:56 the investigation but it's not a failure to find three witnesses in this case it's a failure of any of the Secret 43:01 Service agents to tell the truth and volunteer the information
it's impossible for me to believe the 43:07 Jacqueline Kennedy tried to get out of the car a second time and nobody knows about it that's ridiculous and by the 43:14 way the car slowed down because she was trying to get out
when you narrated it a bit before you said I want to make sure 43:21 clear clear she's trying to get out of the car and so that whoever's driving is slowing down so he doesn't get herself 43:27 hurt and then Clint Hill pushes her back in but by the time that passes this this 43:32 location on the grass there she's already out on the trunk and headed for the left rear taillight and that car was 43:38 stopped and that's what immediately caught sets attention as she said to me immediately of course is mine something 43:45 happened something's wrong here and that's it takes a lot of thinks a lot of I don't want to say imagination but it 43:51 takes a lot of insight and observation and skill to do such a calculation so quickly I'm a bit surprised if it if you 43:58 turn up the volume on that just a little bit if he had just a little bit more insight as to how serious this was he's 44:05 the kind of guy that I think would have knocked on the door of the FBI and say hey by the way you know about this I think I should sit down and tell you but 44:13 it didn't quite reach that threshold
let me ask you this as well then did they hear any shots from whether we're 44:19 standing or smell any gunpowder anything out of the ordinary like I had a 44:24 flashlight nothing at all this is a quarter mile right if we put up the 44:31 aerial I provided you you'll see where they were standing it's a quarter mile away no fair enough I just wanted to get that question out 44:37 of the way as well okay you've got these three amazing witnesses I'm glad you're 44:42 coming on the show tonight so we can talk about that now have they both have they all seen the Sapru tour film and 44:49 what is their reaction to it
I don't know I'm sure they have because the 44:55 Saguaro film has become part of the of the environment now because the Internet so I think everybody is seen as 45:02 if we thought you know I was writing the opening to final charade going over the opening sections and it's so hard to go 45:09 back not all right but it's interesting to go back to 1964 when the 26 volumes 45:14 were published all we had and the Zapruder film was Warren Commission 45:20 exhibit 885 fuzzy black-and-white frames 2 frames to a page in volume 18 that's 45:28 the zipper to film as we had it in 1964 5 6 and then and then let's say a couple 45:34 of dozen color pictures from the issues of Life magazine back then
that film was 45:39 basically suppressed for 10 years until Robert Groden who was working at the 45:45 film laboratory where life had contracted to to have the film blown up 45:51 and into 35-millimeter and all that and he made off with a 16 millimeter copy 45:57 and so he started projecting that on campuses
um we didn't have as that Brut 46:03 of film that was well well then we're HSC a consular committee televised hearings and that's true but basically 46:09 it was with the it was when grow to did what he did was on these TV shows making the rounds and then with the advent of 46:16 the internet that the zubru de film became as convenient as you know as a picture of the Empire State Building in 46:22 New York
I mean the whole thing has changed now from what it used to be it was effectively suppressed for decades 46:29 there's also another piece of important information you asked me to discuss tonight and I'm just noticing the time I 46:35 thought we had a little bit more and that is what took place in Parkland Hospital with Governor Connally and this 46:43 is a complete complete revelation folks and this is explosive would you tell 46:49 that story in the supporter film well remind me exactly what governor Connally 46:54 was showing a copy oh yes of course okay the common understanding is that the 47:01 zubur to film was given to the warren commission and Connally and those people 47:06 saw the film let's say projected during the Warren Commission earrings and certainly in 1966 with Life 47:13 magazine when he went up to New York City and looked at the flames with a magnifying glass
here's what is new is 47:19 that the Monday after President Kennedy's assassination that is on a day of his funeral Secret Service agents 47:27 came to Connolly's hospital room with a 16 millimeter projector and a copy of 47:33 the Subura film that we now you know the the Ruhr film as we now know it and 47:38 projected it for Connolly and his wife multiple times so they saw the Zapruder 47:45 film as it currently exists on Monday November 25 1963
two or three days later 47:52 on the afternoon before the Thanksgiving Connelly was interviewed by Martin 47:58 agronsky of NBC News at his bedside and that interview made headlines in the 48:04 paper of Thursday November 28th and so he had seen as a brooder film of course 48:09 and everybody looks at that interview or researchers I know this is years ago and say oh look at this this account that 48:16 Colin is giving from his hospital bed it's completely corroborated by the Zapruder film
yeah that's because Connelly saw it is a brutal film and 48:22 studied the Zapruder film with his wife on Monday November 25 and that was never 48:28 made clear or developed during the Warren Commission hearings but now that 48:33 it is developed it's a very interesting phenomena Connolly's testimony matches the film because he didn't just see the 48:40 film that there's an adequately clinic he was shown the film multiple times he in effect studied that film
so if 48:45 there's anything else that was going on in the car that contradicted what his account was we'll never know it because 48:51 the film's been altered and again my taste for the film being with it and we could do this on another show or 48:56 whatever is basically the 50 witnesses who saw the car slow down and 15 of them 49:02 said it came to a complete halt I interviewed five of those witnesses in January 19th November 1971 I was the 49:09 person in the first place and I think we came up with the fact that hey this film's altered because I realized in 1969 that there were all these car 49:16 stopped witnesses in the record and nobody'd ever pay the attention to him but I did because I had a before and 49:21 after on the body I knew that that have been altered and now I'm saying there's substantial evidence 49:26 circumstantial evidence that this film is been on so that's the way I began in 69 it's commonly discussed now and in 49:32 these big debates on the Internet
but I believe I was the first person to do something about it and actually go to 49:37 Dallas 71 November and sit down with five of what I call the car stop witnesses so I knew after November 71 49:44 there's no doubt in my mind that that car stopped briefly and that day that meant not only something happened but a 49:50 B that that the film's had been altered and I didn't know how they did it I know much more about it today and believe me 49:56 it was a top-level approved government approved alteration sanctioned I believe 50:01 at the top by Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara and I'll discuss that in the future think this was not something 50:06 all done covertly some of we've covered but it was McNamara kept this a secret as he kept the Pentagon study when he 50:14 had the 40 analysts cordoned off and said don't tell Dean Rusk anything about this and they produced what we now call 50:19 the Pentagon Papers this was a comparable secret operation to get the 50:25 locate these films and get them altered but that's another story
okay we're you're absolutely gonna have 50:30 you back because we're running at a time but I want out I want to get your perspective on this because we have a 50:35 glorious opportunity to have you on right now governor Connally till his dying day and Nellie Connolly as well as 50:41 wife to her dying day always maintained that the bullet that hit Kennedy in the 50:47 back the magic bullet in other words that the Warren Commission says went through Kennedy and then into governor 50:53 Connally was not the same bullet that hit him he said there was only three 50:59 shots he heard all from behind but the bullet that hit him was a different 51:04 bullet yet he maintains that all three shots came from behind and says there 51:10 was no shots from the front or anything like that
what's your perspective on that why would he be so adamant about 51:16 that and yet be so what's the word I'm looking for be so passive about all the 51:24 other stuff that came forward well first of all it's a very fair question
and second well I was going to cite you a 51:30 piece of evidence which I think has not received the attention it should some time and I think it was in the late 80s 51:36 and is a few years before he died was in New Mexico having spending a 51:42 night and is a guest at the home of a young Latino man in politics who was a 51:49 good friend of his and he led it and he had a little bit too much to drink and he let his hair down and this guy wrote 51:55 about this experience and Connally said the Warren Report was wrong he'll never tell the truth about what happened
52:01 a-b-c getting hit by the bullet was like getting get this kicked in the ribs that's a different shot entirely than 52:09 being kicked with twists over the shoulder so he gave a different account to that fellow whose name by the way is 52:15 Thompson and I'd like to see him also on c-span he wrote a great article about 52:21 the experience quote is deception the way to run a government and I don't have 52:27 that up on my screen here so I can't give you the exact date but that's what he said so Connolly basically went along 52:33 with the lie and he told Thompson this is not the researcher John Josiah is 52:40 somebody else he said he'll never tell the truth because it would be detrimental to the United States government
damn there's the music David 52:47 I don't want you to go just yet one last question very quickly the date for a future date release of final charade I 52:54 don't have a date but it'll be at least one year from now but believe me it'll be in magazines before that okay and 53:00 we're gonna have you back on at least a couple of times that discuss McNamara this approver film and much much more 53:06 thank you so much boyfriend for coming on you're looking good buddy change is 53:12 good Shonda told us by the way yes I'm 53:18 calling from Knight Frank thank you Dave liftin thank you Bill Blackwell later 53:31 you
-
Seth & Sandra & Pat didn’t mention…..
1. That other cars stopped (say 6 cars).
2. That Hickey aimed his AR15 at Hoffman.
3. That the stoppage was at least 30 sec (Brown said at least 30 sec)(Seth Sandra Pat i think said about 10 sec).
4. That Queen Mary turned off its signals (Hoffman) & siren (probably wired to signals)
5. That any other car turned off its signals & siren.
6. That a motorcycle also stopped (Chaney probly caught up & stopped).
7. That Officer Murphy appeared & looked down from the Stemmons overpass during the stoppage.
8. That Hoffman ran north on Stemmons (towards Officer Earle Brown) waving his arms.
9. etc etc.
-
40:44 they noticed you know they stopped they turned their lights out
TRANSCRIPT
and then we get this black look at her face like well what do we do now okay oh my god you're killing us all
32:02 just a few side notes from an old sniper there are some things about the mechanics which objective the
32:08 trajectories the physical evidence the documentation
32:13 the weapon what it's like to sit up there and squeeze that trigger knowing you're
32:19 going to end the life experts that have tried it couldn't do it
32:25 and a cop that just smells a rat thank you
32:36 all right mr hoffman are you ready sir
32:45 i thought it would be a good segue to go into mr hoffman after showing this film because mr hoffman
32:50 saw the gunman shooting from behind that picket fence
33:02 you know this place you've all seen this before
33:07 and i was standing let me show you where over here approximately
33:16 on stenon freeway
33:23 straight up there on this bridge and it goes to the left from that picture and um i was standing on the bridge
33:29 there was there were policemen up there as well and um
33:36 i actually had broken my tooth while i was at work and my boss had given me the rest of the day off and i went home
33:42 dad to have my my tooth fixed and i was driving i saw a large crowd of people and i wondered why and i
33:48 remembered that john kennedy was coming for a visit in dallas so um
33:53 you know i felt somewhere that i should stop you know he was visiting in my town i was pretty curious about
33:58 what kind of person jfk was so i came back down around
34:05 i stopped on the center freeway and parked my car
34:11 and there was a lot of traffic going that way you know we saw a lot of people there and i had decided to uh
34:17 stand in the best place i possibly could to see this
34:24 with the road goes up like that as i just pointed and i was standing there i was standing
34:30 high above so i could see over everything and the train tracks went that direction
34:37 and um i was behind the fence here
34:44 okay and um now please change that
34:50 anyway it's pretty this is pretty dark the next one's more clear
34:56 right see now this one's a very clear picture um to show you what it's like
35:04 okay i have already shown you about this in this area
35:11 behind the fence over here that's this area right there
35:16 and the switch box the electrical switch box for the train is this area right here
35:24 now there was a man that was standing right here
35:31 and he was a railroad man he worked for the railroad he ran the electrical box or something of that of that sort
35:37 okay um now i was standing back this direction and i was waiting for the parade to come
35:43 by you know it was very easy to see from that area because it was supposed to come straight down that street i wanted to look over from the bridge as it came
35:50 under the bridge and watch it go and i could look down that means that um as the car came by
35:57 you know we had planned clearly my body could be seen from that direction and um i wanted to get a neat picture
36:04 you know a picture of everyone's dreams to get the president coming under the bridge and um
36:13 and anyway i just i didn't know what this man over here was doing that was behind the fence i didn't know where he'd gone or what he was doing but there
36:19 was a pipe that ran along here a large pipe okay
36:26 and also um it really everything was looking kind of strange i didn't know what he was doing
36:32 or where he was going but this man there were two men they met over here and they
36:37 were talking and again he went back over to his post and i didn't know where he was anyway so i was watching the
36:43 happenings and later i saw a picture let me i'll show you how it was
36:50 behind that fence that man was standing there he had a hat on and he was standing there like i am right now
36:57 and he started to bend over as i just did and he picked something up and i saw you
37:03 know i didn't know where he'd gone i saw his head bob and all i could see was his back
37:09 i didn't know what he was doing exactly and so i really didn't pay much attention and later
37:15 i saw him put the gun up over the fence and he was very focused in on what he was doing apparently
37:21 and i wasn't sure what he was doing and i was leaned over the bridge and he was over the fence and
37:29 i thought he went he was smoking you know but after the shot
37:35 i couldn't hear it of course but everyone turned the other direction and it was very easy
37:40 to see from what side he had been shot
37:52 now that man threw the gun over the pipe
38:02 and he was doing something with the gun and it was very quick it was very quick what he was doing he was hurrying and he
38:08 was starting to walk away very quickly and uh this railroad box over here and
38:13 down the tracks he came around like this crossed the tracks
38:21 and at that time everyone was staring of course the shot had happened and this man had scurried
38:28 off out of the picture and i couldn't believe it anyway i was watching and i was waiting for the car to come across
38:33 the other side of the bridge because it was starting to come underneath the bridge and i looked under there
38:39 and i was and i could see
38:44 directly over and i you know i found my heart beating quite
38:50 and really it was it was the truth and his head did fall to the left and it
38:56 was just obliterated the back of his head was just just blood was everywhere it was just really awful
39:01 and from what i could see i could see the socials the special services around
39:08 the car and his wife before you know she'd been waving of course the crowd and jackie was
39:14 sitting there and candy was sitting next to her and then when it happened he fell over into her lap
39:21 and uh i saw her come up the back of the car
39:28 and he he had fallen down into the seat with his head obliterated the way it was and you could see directly into the car
39:34 from my vantage point and i could see in her pink outfit i could see his head from there
39:44 and it was oh my god the experience was just heart-wrenching and then i looked over to where the train was located near
39:50 the bridge under the freeway and the police were standing up there
39:56 they were standing at this area right here where the bridge went
40:10 and at that time the police were just standing there they had not moved and you know we were all trying to motion to the police
40:16 to i was trying to motion to the police to go after the man that had run away and uh
40:24 there were other special services
40:29 the other car was coming along behind them
40:38 and the secret service noticed my hands
40:44 they noticed you know they stopped they turned their lights out
40:50 i thought maybe they were trying to um motion to me
40:57 but they all got out of there very quickly of course and uh that man had already gone
41:02 down the tracks by this time you know so um there was no time to let anyone know so
41:08 i ran and got in my car and i drove down towards that direction and i kept looking for where the man had
41:14 gone i and he had disappeared completely no one ever found him so um
41:21 i went to the police department at that time i hurried very quickly to get there and i went into the police department and i
41:27 ran up and i i wrote to them that my uncle was was a lieutenant
41:36 in the police department they said we're sorry he's not here he's out on duty
41:41 what do you want and so uh you know i couldn't get to my uncle
41:48 my uncle could talk to me very easily of course but um so i went back and got in my car
41:53 and i went to my father in grand prairie his home was there it
41:59 was near dallas so i went to my father's home i went on the tollway and i hurried
42:06 and i'm very lucky i didn't get a ticket at that time because i was speeding quite badly and um i went into my father's home
42:16 i went in and i i just screamed i was crying at this time i was just very upset my
42:22 father said what's wrong with you and they came over to me and i explained you know i had a very hard time talking to
42:27 them i was very confused at this time i said i saw the man who shot kennedy
42:34 and they were just in shock at this time they said you saw the man that shot the president
42:39 and they hadn't even heard about the shot yet they hadn't even heard about i said yes he's dead he's been shot his head
42:46 has been destroyed he's been assassinated and they said why are you off work so i explained you know
42:52 that i had to go to the dentist and my father said okay you know that he was happy i was all right but they said
42:59 they told me to go home and you know so i went to the dentist at that time
43:04 and got my tooth fixed and uh by that time everyone had heard that jfk had been shot
43:12 and i said please call my uncle at the police station and they told me to wait again till later they said you better go
43:17 home you better go home for a while and um i said please call them now and
43:24 everyone kept trying to tell me to calm down and to wait
43:30 you know i they had heard about the assassination by this time and they said that a man had been caught and i was relieved
43:36 because you know i was deaf and i had at that time there weren't interpreters coming to police stations
43:43 to tell about things like that so i was very proud that uh i had been able to express this so i
43:49 drove home i went in the house and my wife was there and i explained that jfk had been
43:55 assassinated and i had seen it and my wife was very shocked of course as well and we turned the tv on and uh
44:03 we sat down on the sofa to watch and
44:10 i said this is what happened and she she said oh really and we were watching the tv and we were both very nervous and uh
44:16 showed a picture and i was pretty confused at this time
44:22 because the police were watching in this clip the police were just watching
44:28 and i was pretty confused i didn't understand nothing had been said about the person behind the fence
44:35 they had gotten it all wrong they thought it came from a window and i i was very upset
44:44 and so i drove back to my father's house again and went in and i screamed i said no it wasn't a sixth floor window and i
44:51 told them about the man behind the fence and i said please call my uncle at the police station i saw what was involved
44:59 and they said okay you better calm down we'll do that later and um
45:05 they said they would let my uncle know i said okay and the next time
45:14 you know it went for many days the family we have a very big family big family home in dallas
45:20 and uh we had all planned to go down there for
45:25 a family get-together my grandmother and grandfather were there
45:31 and we were all really excited and my uncle i was waiting for my uncle to come so i was very restless at the time
45:39 you know i was very burdened with this information it was really a terrible weight on me and i was ready to
45:45 get it out you know and let my uncle know so i could feel better and i just couldn't sit still i just persisted in
45:51 being antsy so um i was waiting a very long time for my
45:57 uncle to get there and my father was trying to calm me down
46:02 during this time saying it will be okay it will be okay and everyone was shocked that i had seen
46:08 what had happened so i by this time i was sweating i was just so nervous finally my uncle drove
46:13 up and i stood up and i just started running around waiting for him to get in there my uncle got out of the car my dad
46:18 went over to him and they kind of chatted for a while and
46:24 my uncle i saw him say readily and his eyes got enormous at that time and
46:31 i went over to them and they said to calm down again and i said i saw this
46:36 man running off he had the gun and uh
46:42 my uncle asked me how it happened and i explained to him very detailed what how how it happened how the assassination
46:47 occurred from behind the fence and he was enormously shocked and my father was
46:53 in a state of disillusionment he didn't know what to understand
46:58 and my my uncle signs well and uh my family was there and they were all
47:04 just biting their nails and in shock and grief about this
47:12 and they told me that we had better not let anybody know my name because i had seen it and i might be in
47:17 trouble because of that so we agreed on that but my burden had lessened at this point
47:26 and i kept asking myself why why over and over again why did this happen
47:33 because my uncle in a lieutenant in the police department he had experienced many terrible things in his life you
47:39 know he had experienced many of the same type of things and he told me yes i shouldn't think
47:45 anything of it he told me to calm down again
47:50 because i was still bothered by this
47:56 you know we had a little dinner we sat down with the family and we went on you know and
48:02 i just still didn't feel that it was right that they didn't want me to confess this i was a witness i saw what happened
48:10 so then from then on out i just had a terrible
48:16 time sleeping i'd wake up in sweats i'd have bad dreams i'd toss and turn all night i just couldn't sleep
48:21 i just holding this all inside continuing to keep it inside i couldn't do that
48:26 so um you know i thought it would eventually lessen but it was just eating away at me
48:32 on the inside so then in 1967
48:40 i decided i didn't care i felt like i would risk my life for this so
48:46 uh i ignored my family and i went to a friend and i said
48:53 we need to make we need to file something with the fbi and this man was willing to go call the
49:00 fbi for me he said he would be willing to do that and file something with them
49:05 so then later on i went to the fbi i went to the lobby of the fbi and i met
49:12 this woman there and i gave my name ed hoffman and they said oh fine so he called she called the man that was
49:19 supposed to come down to talk to me the agent from the fbi and i noticed the lobby had um
49:29 pictures all throughout the lobby and i was looking at these pictures and i said no no i'm sorry i don't want
49:35 to talk i don't want to talk with i don't want to talk with them i feel
49:40 that it's very dangerous and i don't want the cia to know there were pictures of the c-i-c-i-a all over the
49:47 lobby and i did not want to talk to the cia i wanted to talk to the fbi and she told me not to worry that we
49:52 would be talking to the fbi so i sat down more relieved at that time and the fbi agent came out to meet me and um
50:01 i opened something that was in my pocket oh excuse me the fbi showed me their
50:07 badge and i felt more relieved at that time because i was deaf and i really didn't know you know my
50:14 i've heard all these stories about the cia and i really didn't want to be involved with him at that time so the fbi i was very accepting of that so
50:21 after i had seen his badge we went into his office and sat down and um
50:29 we um established the preliminaries with my name and everything and they wanted to know what i saw so i wrote down and
50:35 illustrated everything i could on a piece of paper and you know his
50:40 expressions were changing as i was doing this and he looked very concerned and then i looked over
50:47 and there was a big mirror all along the wall i noticed that for the first time the
50:52 fbi said don't worry that's nothing and um
50:58 the fbi agent decided that i shouldn't say much more
51:05 he took my paper that i had written down my story and illustrated what happened and about the fence and the gunman
51:11 and he said for me not to say much more and
51:23 he was offering me money and i was very shocked by that i was extremely shocked by that and
51:30 they they wanted to know how much i wanted and i told them no thank you they wanted to give me money to keep me quiet
51:36 and i said i don't want that money i don't know what that's for
51:41 that means you're what are you planning to do with this story it's not necessary to give me money i'm
51:47 a witness and that's all i want it's my truth i can't tell you a lie
51:54 i mean here i am i'm ready to give you the story and uh this is the truth
51:59 and i have to continue in the truth i cannot accept money bribery
52:05 to tell a lie i cannot do that i'm in a stand sure and i'm going to continue with my truth
52:10 and he said okay but he started by saying this he told me to shut up and he looked at
52:15 me very angrily when he said this and i said okay fine and i left his office
52:23 you know first he was very friendly and then he got angry because i wouldn't accept his bribe money and so i left at that time
52:31 as time went on i went back home
52:39 and i thought maybe my father wouldn't know so i went into the house and my uncle not my father excuse me my
52:46 father had a very strange expression on his face as i walked up to him
52:52 and i walked over to my father he said did you go see the fbi
52:59 and i could not lie i mean i just could not lie to my father my father was a very strict man you know i grew up in a
53:05 very strict home and that was how i'd been raised so um i confessed i said yes
53:10 i did i went to the fbi and as gravely as he could he was looking at me and he said
53:16 you know you know best they're going to kill you you know they're going to kill you someday i don't k now when i don't know how but
53:23 this is going to be dangerous for the family and the um my your uncle is very worried
53:30 you know we'd really like you to be able to stay with our family we don't want you to have to do anything strange i said i know but i could i you know i
53:36 have wiped my slate clean i feel much better i've made myself feel better and
53:42 now i can focus on my family this has made me very happy it's been a pleasure for me to be able to express that i said
53:48 i cannot continue with sleepless nights i need to be able to let it out
53:56 he said he told me to be happy with my love for my family and for my children and i said yes i understand that but i
54:02 had to do what i had to do and uh so then at that time i went home
54:10 and robert kennedy had died also by this time you know and i didn't have any
54:15 involvement in that but uh
54:21 i was very nervous i wrote to ted kennedy i wrote him a letter
54:28 and i waited for a very long time and got no response and finally i got a letter back that i read
54:34 and i said think of your brothers kennedy hadn't been paying attention at
54:39 that time you know for their family he had not been paying attention
54:47 and i didn't know what he was planning but uh he didn't really
54:52 he didn't give me any kind of response back in the letter he sent to me and later on my father had died
55:00 and um
55:08 in 1977 i went back to the fbi
55:15 and i was very serious about doing something about this i figured all this time had
55:20 wasted and i needed to let them know again in 77 what had happened so i drove over there i knew what to do
55:26 because i had had experience by that time and the fbi was very friendly and
55:32 nice and sweet and they came out to meet me and you know they took my picture and we went on
55:40 they took a whole lot of pictures at this time and before
55:48 on a billboard it was very low and it was easy to see
55:54 behind the fence you know now they had built a billboard and there were trees there and had all
56:00 grown up in front of that and really you couldn't see anything at that day he said we can't see anything
56:06 you know i'm sorry and um i said i have pictures of the old way
56:11 and the billboard was not there the fence was lower i said i have enough you don't have to worry and i can prove that
56:17 you can see it from there from the bridge and you know i had taken a lot of
56:22 pictures the fbi also took a lot of pictures and we went back to the fbi and i i showed them my pictures and
56:35 the fbi said they could not the rules restricted
56:40 them giving any pictures to me
56:56 hoover at this time
57:08 the fbi had said to me that they were sorry that they couldn't give any of their pictures to me
57:14 because it was in it had been put in the file and sealed and put away also with hoover
57:24 for reasons of confidentiality and they had put that in a fire file and it was sealed and i could not get it
57:31 and the fbi said they understood my concern and they thanked me for coming and i i really thought they were much
57:36 nicer this time at least and i left and i heard nothing from them for a very
57:41 long time until
57:50 a man from a college contacted me
57:57 and a woman stood up someplace as and identified me as a witness as ed
58:02 hoffman and i said yes i do live here and i was very excited about this opportunity
58:08 from the college to be able to be involved and let them know my story first
58:14 and after that it started spreading and i let them know
58:28 that the stories up to now had not been believed and i was a witness and i had seen and you know they could believe
58:34 what they wanted to the government and the political side of it they could believe that but
58:40 i had been very patient understanding about this and
58:54 postner had i had uh sent out his story the year before and i was very upset i said i had
59:01 never talked with that man i had never even met him and
59:08 i had given my story to the fbi and all these groups had lied for his sake
59:14 and i couldn't understand why that had happened and i think it must been have been money
59:19 and business involved and the cia had been involved i'm sure
59:31 and i said that my truth was really what happened and i would not lie about it
59:37 and you know they could decide for themselves and they could look at me however they wanted to but i loved the truth and i wanted them
59:44 to know what it happened for the american public's sake and what will you do
59:49 but thank you all thank you very much [Applause]
1:00:26 you
-
35:57 you know we had planned clearly my body could be seen from that direction and um i wanted to get a neat picture
36:04 you know a picture of everyone's dreams to get the president coming under the bridge and um
36:13 and anyway i just i didn't know what this man over here was doing that was behind the fence i didn't know where he'd gone or what he was doing but there
36:19 was a pipe that ran along here a large pipe okay
36:26 and also um it really everything was looking kind of strange i didn't know what he was doing
36:32 or where he was going but this man there were two men they met over here and they
36:37 were talking and again he went back over to his post and i didn't know where he was anyway so i was watching the
36:43 happenings and later i saw a picture let me i'll show you how it was
36:50 behind that fence that man was standing there he had a hat on and he was standing there like i am right now
36:57 and he started to bend over as i just did and he picked something up and i saw you
37:03 know i didn't know where he'd gone i saw his head bob and all i could see was his back
37:09 i didn't know what he was doing exactly and so i really didn't pay much attention and later
37:15 i saw him put the gun up over the fence and he was very focused in on what he was doing apparently
37:21 and i wasn't sure what he was doing and i was leaned over the bridge and he was over the fence and
37:29 i thought he went he was smoking you know but after the shot
37:35 i couldn't hear it of course but everyone turned the other direction and it was very easy
37:40 to see from what side he had been shot
37:52 now that man threw the gun over the pipe
38:02 and he was doing something with the gun and it was very quick it was very quick what he was doing he was hurrying and he
38:08 was starting to walk away very quickly and uh this railroad box over here and
38:13 down the tracks he came around like this crossed the tracks
38:21 and at that time everyone was staring of course the shot had happened and this man had scurried
38:28 off out of the picture and i couldn't believe it anyway i was watching and i was waiting for the car to come across
38:33 the other side of the bridge because it was starting to come underneath the bridge and i looked under there
38:39 and i was and i could see
38:44 directly over and i you know i found my heart beating quite
38:50 and really it was it was the truth and his head did fall to the left and it
38:56 was just obliterated the back of his head was just just blood was everywhere it was just really awful
39:01 and from what i could see i could see the socials the special services around
39:08 the car and his wife before you know she'd been waving of course the crowd and jackie was
39:14 sitting there and candy was sitting next to her and then when it happened he fell over into her lap
39:21 and uh i saw her come up the back of the car
39:28 and he he had fallen down into the seat with his head obliterated the way it was and you could see directly into the car
39:34 from my vantage point and i could see in her pink outfit i could see his head from there
39:44 and it was oh my god the experience was just heart-wrenching and then i looked over to where the train was located near
39:50 the bridge under the freeway and the police were standing up there
39:56 they were standing at this area right here where the bridge went
40:10 and at that time the police were just standing there they had not moved and you know we were all trying to motion to the police
40:16 to i was trying to motion to the police to go after the man that had run away and uh
Did Hoffman take a pix looking down on the stoppage?
Allso, notice that "he said" WE twice (or was something lost or gained in the translation of his gesticulation).
WE refers to him & his passenger, in his Falcon (as can be seen in the Bell footage).
-
Courson (on his motorbike) caught up to the jfklimo,
ie he confirms that the motorcade stopped on the Stemmons on-ramp for 30 sec.
And SSA Hickey in Queen Mary pointed his AR15 at Courson.
Was this before or after Hickey pointed the AR15 at Ed Hoffman (who was up on the Stemmons overpass).
Jimmy Courson, retired Dallas motorcycle officer, dies at 81 By dallasnews Administrator
10:51 PM on Feb 14, 2014 CST LISTEN
During his 25 years with the Dallas police, Jimmy Wayne Courson rescued people, roped calves and played a part in history — all from his motorcycle.
On Nov. 22, 1963, he escorted the limousine carrying the mortally wounded President John F. Kennedy to Parkland hospital.
Courson, 81, died Monday of heart disease while recovering from a broken hip at Beacon Harbor Rehabilitation in Rockwall.
Services will be at 11 a.m. Saturday at Rest Haven Funeral Home in Rockwall. The family will receive friends for 90 minutes before the service. He will be buried in Rest Haven Memorial Park.
Breaking News Get the latest breaking news from North Texas and beyond.
“He loved being an officer,” said his wife, Sue Courson of Rockwall. “He loved his men, and his men loved him.”
Courson was born in Como, where he graduated from high school.
In 1951, he joined the Marines and served during the Korean War. He was once pinned half in and half out of his bunker after it collapsed during enemy shelling.
He joined the Dallas Police Department as an apprentice in 1954 and became a patrolman in June 1955. The young officer discovered his passion for motorcycles and became a motorcycle officer in September 1955, said his son Kris Courson of Helena, Ala.
In November 1955, he married Martha Sue Carter.
In 1962, he was nominated for the outstanding traffic award for his 1,912 arrests in 1961. Two of his 1961 arrests involved one motorist at the same Oak Cliff location. On both occasions — 11 months apart — the man was driving a stolen Corvette.
In July 1962, Courson swam fully clothed against the current to rescue a motorist whose car had washed off Hillcrest Road.
In 1963, he was a motorcycle escort several cars behind the presidential limousine.
Amid the confusion after the shooting, he accelerated to the president’s car.
“He said that when he got up to the presidential Lincoln, one of the Secret Service men actually turned toward him with a machine gun.”
The agent turned away after recognizing Courson as a Dallas officer.
“He led the car to Parkland,” his son said. “He said he almost crashed his motor because they went over the railroad tracks.
He was speeding excessively with the car. He actually left the ground and almost lost control.”
At Parkland, Courson helped the first lady get out of the car and assisted others to get the president out of the vehicle, his son said.
He later escorted the hearse from Parkland to Love Field.
Courson resisted suggestions that he seek promotion to lieutenant, his son said.
“Dad just didn’t want to do it; he didn’t want to be stuck at a desk job,” his son said. “He wanted to be out on patrol with his men.”
In 1975, Courson used his motorcycle to help round up calves on Grand Avenue that had escaped a wrecked cattle truck.
He retired in 1979 but wasn’t through with law enforcement.
About six months after he retired to a corporate security job at LTV Corp., Courson followed a suspected drunken driver he spotted until officers arrived.
“He just felt that that was his duty, even as a retired policeman,” Kris Courson said.
In October 1981, Courson spotted an off-duty officer with his gun drawn entering a downtown jewelry store.
When Courson entered the store, the off-duty officer was holding two suspects at gunpoint.
Courson took a gun off one of the suspects and searched for additional robbers. He received the involved citizen award for assisting in the arrests.
“He never stopped being a policeman,” his wife said.
In addition to his wife and son, Courson is survived by two daughters, Kathy Dunn of Dallas and Cindy Bietendorf of Rockwall; another son, Kyle Courson of Flowery Branch, Ga.; 11 grandchildren; and three great-grandchildren.
Memorials may be made to First Baptist Church of Dallas; the Involved Life Inc. at the Downtown Dallas Pregnancy Center; the Dallas Life Foundation or a charity of the donor’s choice.
-
On ramp to Stemmons freeway.
(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/on-ramp.jpg)
-
(https://i.imgur.com/9EMAtHk.jpg)
-
On ramp to Stemmons freeway.
Hi Robin, thanx for the semi-modern pix of the on-ramp.
It appears that the on-ramp has not changed one atom from 1963 to today (based on other pix)(apart from some signing & lighting changes).
U go back a long way on several forums.... what do u think re the motorcade stopping on the on-ramp?
-
I notice that the right turn lane to Continental in your pix starts at the end of the bridge, whereas in 1963 u could with care drive sharply at say 45deg over say 5 lanes to Continental from the on-ramp (as per Hoffman according to Hoffman), but in your pix u would have to drive squarely across 7 lanes to make Continental.
And today u would have to peel off to the right before the bridge (ie south of the bridge), & today a barrier stops u cutting across to Continental from the aforementioned on-ramp.
I had a look a google earth. Its hard to tell. There are now 3 off ramps to the right (ie to the east) in that small area.