JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate => Topic started by: Steve Wilson on September 15, 2023, 03:36:15 AM
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I am uncertain about the Landis claim, but I did notice that at one point in the Zapruder film right before the head shot Jackie Kennedy's hand went around the back of the president at about the place of the low back wound that reportedly was only a very shallow wound. And that after the head shot when she climbed out on the trunk her hand was in the same area where Landis says he found the bullet. I think Jackie was the only one who had her hand in that area. Draw your own conclusions.
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(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MtEC4APnj40/VUMcbHYDbGI/AAAAAAABF4w/N1sMhDS73sY/s7000/Clint-Hill-On-Back-Of-Limo-November-22-1963.jpg)
http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2023/06/paul-landis.html
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My thought was if indeed the first shot (for whatever reason) ended up causing a very shallow back wound to the president could Jackie have somehow (likely unintentionally) dislodged it into her glove and dropped it where Landis said he found it (where the upholstered backseat met the metal of the trunk) when she began to climb out or return to the limo after the head shot? I'm thinking Clint Hill could have been so focused on the president and Jackie he didn't notice it while he was holding on for dear life on the wild ride
to Parkland. In the above picture it would have been located near Hill's thigh.
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(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MtEC4APnj40/VUMcbHYDbGI/AAAAAAABF4w/N1sMhDS73sY/s7000/Clint-Hill-On-Back-Of-Limo-November-22-1963.jpg)
http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2023/06/paul-landis.html
Wow, the "Oswald did it alone" machine has really gone into overdrive on this one.... Says it all, really!
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Since imo a bullet that would have fallen out of JFKs back and be resting on the top of limo in some shallow recess would likely have fallen off due to the acceleration of the limo by Greer finally reacting and stomping in the gas pedal
And why would a bullet only penetrate very shallow into the muscle portion of JFKs back, in the first place?
Maybe a 22 cal round from some low velocity rifle , but any other typical rifle would be probably firing a bullet at 2000ft per sec velocity.
Not really sure if even if the bullet struck part of the trunk that it would slow it down enough ti cause a shallow wound in the back.
Not sure about an “ice” bullet though 🤨
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Another way a bullet could've ended up under Jackie is that if the head shot came from the front. After being hit for the first time JFL sort of lolled over to Jackie, his head almost on her shoulder. If the head shot came from the front, a bullet could've ejected down the back of her seat.
Just seems to be very odd how a bullet would, if we accept the lone shooter/TSBD narrative, end up on Jackie's seat. And did Mr. Landis ever mention this at the time and if he did why wasn't he called as a witness to the WC.
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The unexpected massive damage inflicted by the Kill Shot is alleged to be the result of a bullet fired from a Carcano rifle. This same level of damage would be expected if it was the result of a semi automatic weapon being used on 11/22/63. SA Hickey inside the Queen Mary manned a semi automatic AR-15 with "one in the barrel" only feet behind JFK. Along with the loaded AR-15, there is WC testimony regarding the smell of gunpowder at street level behind the Queen Mary. Facts is Facts.
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The unexpected massive damage inflicted by the Kill Shot is alleged to be the result of a bullet fired from a Carcano rifle. This same level of damage would be expected if it was the result of a semi automatic weapon being used on 11/22/63. SA Hickey inside the Queen Mary manned a semi automatic AR-15 with "one in the barrel" only feet behind JFK. Along with the loaded AR-15, there is WC testimony regarding the smell of gunpowder at street level behind the Queen Mary. Facts is Facts.
::)
You have got to be joking.
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I am uncertain about the Landis claim, but I did notice that at one point in the Zapruder film right before the head shot Jackie Kennedy's hand went around the back of the president at about the place of the low back wound that reportedly was only a very shallow wound. And that after the head shot when she climbed out on the trunk her hand was in the same area where Landis says he found the bullet. I think Jackie was the only one who had her hand in that area. Draw your own conclusions.
(https://i.postimg.cc/SNn18tC5/Zapruder-Mrs-Kennedy.gif)
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It seems as if something is in her left hand. She looks at it. As she's climbing off the seat, she lays it down in the seam between the seat and the metal
(https://i.postimg.cc/SNn18tC5/Zapruder-Mrs-Kennedy.gif)
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It seems as if something is in her left hand. She looks at it. As she's climbing off the seat, she lays it down in the seam between the seat and the metal
(https://i.postimg.cc/SNn18tC5/Zapruder-Mrs-Kennedy.gif)
You think Jackie caught the bullet in her hand and placed it there? That is far out. Landis didn't mention the bullet six decades ago. I don't think he is intentionally lying but like many elderly people, he has mixed things up. Just look at our president. Likely manipulated by others to sell a book. No one would have given his book a second thought except for the new claim about the bullet.
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You think Jackie caught the bullet in her hand and placed it there? That is far out. Landis didn't mention the bullet six decades ago. I don't think he is intentionally lying but like many elderly people, he has mixed things up. Just look at our president. Likely manipulated by others to sell a book. No one would have given his book a second thought except for the new claim about the bullet.
Disagree. Any NEW Book by a SS Agent that was actively involved/on duty during the JFK Assassination issa must read.
Personally, I believe there are still many pieces to this puzzle that have intentionally been omitted for whatever reason. Not reasons that are necessarily nefarious in nature. These pieces/issues would include: (1) JFK Limo stopping in route to Parkland, (2) problems incurred during the removal of JFK's body from the Limo after arriving at Parkland, (3) the Lead Car being parked/pointed in a contrary direction to that of the Queen Mary at Parkland. These details are obviously not case crackers, but knowing exactly how things went down sometimes clears up larger issues that are in question.
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You think Jackie caught the bullet in her hand and placed it there? That is far out.
Well, unlike you I wasn't there so I can't be sure. But these frames offer the possibility that a bullet may have dropped down into her left hand and she placed it just where Mr. Landis says he found a bullet. The particular fashion in which she lays her hand down right over the 'seam' area is certainly suggestive of that
(https://i.postimg.cc/SNn18tC5/Zapruder-Mrs-Kennedy.gif)
In a sense, the sheer oddness of the place where Mr. Landis says he found a bullet may speak to the veracity of his story. If you're going to make up a story of finding a bullet in the car, you wouldn't say the bullet was there of all places. Seems so wildly unrealistic.
And yet here we have Zapruder showing us just how that improbable thing might easily have happened.
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You think Jackie caught the bullet in her hand and placed it there? That is far out. Landis didn't mention the bullet six decades ago. I don't think he is intentionally lying but like many elderly people, he has mixed things up. Just look at our president. Likely manipulated by others to sell a book. No one would have given his book a second thought except for the new claim about the bullet.
Your being more generous than me Richard the old fool is lying through his teeth. Motive most likely is to set up his kids/grandkids for the future. Clint "if I was one second faster" Hill is a liar too. Can't believe anything they say. Drinking the night before, failing to protect the President, cleaning evidence from the car at Parkland, stealing the body, on and on.
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Disagree. Any NEW Book by a SS Agent that was actively involved/on duty during the JFK Assassination issa must read.
Personally, I believe there are still many pieces to this puzzle that have intentionally been omitted for whatever reason. Not reasons that are necessarily nefarious in nature. These pieces/issues would include: (1) JFK Limo stopping in route to Parkland, (2) problems incurred during the removal of JFK's body from the Limo after arriving at Parkland, (3) the Lead Car being parked/pointed in a contrary direction to that of the Queen Mary at Parkland. These details are obviously not case crackers, but knowing exactly how things went down sometimes clears up larger issues that are in question.
A few zealots about this case such as those on this forum MIGHT have read it. The general public has zero interest. Landis certainly would not have been invited on the mainstream networks to promote his book without the hook about the bullet. Again, I don't think he is intentionally lying but has gotten old and doesn't have a clue. That qualifies him for politics but not writing books. In one interview, he apparently thought the "magic" bullet was the one that struck JFK in the head. In terms of the other things you mention, those might be of some pedantic historical interest for those heavily invested in the case but they add little or nothing to the resolution of who assassinated JFK. And I doubt after six decades that Landis' memory is any better on those points than it is on the bullet.
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Well, unlike you I wasn't there so I can't be sure. But these frames offer the possibility that a bullet may have dropped down into her left hand
...........or she picked it up
(https://i.postimg.cc/SNn18tC5/Zapruder-Mrs-Kennedy.gif)
Somebody needs to show these frames to Mr. Landis
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A few zealots about this case such as those on this forum MIGHT have read it. The general public has zero interest. Landis certainly would not have been invited on the mainstream networks to promote his book without the hook about the bullet. Again, I don't think he is intentionally lying but has gotten old and doesn't have a clue. That qualifies him for politics but not writing books. In one interview, he apparently thought the "magic" bullet was the one that struck JFK in the head. In terms of the other things you mention, those might be of some pedantic historical interest for those heavily invested in the case but they add little or nothing to the resolution of who assassinated JFK. And I doubt after six decades that Landis' memory is any better on those points than it is on the bullet.
I had never heard/read anyone detail that Landis was physically inside the backseat of the JFK Limo at Parkland. Landis also detailed witnessing Clint Hill placing his jacket over the head of JFK. This would indicate Landis was physically close to Clint Hill immediately after arriving at Parkland. How about someone asking SA Hill if he ever saw Landis physically inside the backseat of the JFK Limo after they arrived at Parkland? People are overlooking Landis claiming to have handled bullet fragments that were in the area between the back rest and the bench seat. He claims he handled those fragments and then put them back where he found them. Is there any documentation of bullet fragments being retrieved from this same area? If not, maybe these fragments were Not the remnants of Carcano fired bullet(s)? A major criticism has always been that there are no other bullet fragments from another rifle/shooter. Maybe these were those fragment(s)? There are far more repercussions to the recent Landis recollections than merely another SBT discussion.
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You think Jackie caught the bullet in her hand and placed it there? That is far out. Landis didn't mention the bullet six decades ago. I don't think he is intentionally lying but like many elderly people, he has mixed things up.
Does that explain why you get so many things wrong? Projecting?
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There has always been a lot of confusion regarding just which stretcher the Magic Bullet fell off of. This is why Specter personally handled this area of WC Q/A. The JFK Assassination Research Community needs to familiarize itself with the TESTIMONIES that have been given. There is WC + HSCA + ARRB + Clay/Shaw. The skeletons are buried here.
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Alan,
Thank you for posting the clip from the Zapruder film I was originally referring to. Although I am still uncertain about the Landis claim, but IF he did find an intact bullet where the seat meets the trunk deck AND there was a shallow wound in the president's back, this explanation makes more sense to me than anything else I have read. I highly doubt it popped out during the sudden rear movement of the head shot, and no one was suggesting Jackie caught the bullet, just perhaps dislodged it when her gloved hand brushed the President's back on her way out of the back of the car. Her hand was right there. The grainy picture of Clint Hill holding on for dear life on the ride to Parkland Hospital not showing the bullet does not convince me it was not there. His thigh could have been holding it in place. I remain open to all possibilities.
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Alan,
Thank you for posting the clip from the Zapruder film I was originally referring to. Although I am still uncertain about the Landis claim, but IF he did find an intact bullet where the seat meets the trunk deck AND there was a shallow wound in the president's back, this explanation makes more sense to me than anything else I have read. I highly doubt it popped out during the sudden rear movement of the head shot, and no one was suggesting Jackie caught the bullet, just perhaps dislodged it when her gloved hand brushed the President's back on her way out of the back of the car. Her hand was right there. The grainy picture of Clint Hill holding on for dear life on the ride to Parkland Hospital not showing the bullet does not convince me it was not there. His thigh could have been holding it in place. I remain open to all possibilities.
Her hand was right there.
The power of suggestion is amazing.
Someone posts a clip purporting to show Jackie brushing the area of JFK's back where a bullet is unbelievably supposed to be still sticking out.
And that's what people see.
Look again.
Jackie's hand grabs the back of JFK's neck where his shirt collar is.Her other hand then pushes the back of his head.
At no time has her hand "brushed the President's back on her way out of the back of the car."
Don't just swallow what other people say, look for yourself.
(https://i.postimg.cc/SNn18tC5/Zapruder-Mrs-Kennedy.gif)
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Well, unlike you I wasn't there so I can't be sure. But these frames offer the possibility that a bullet may have dropped down into her left hand and she placed it just where Mr. Landis says he found a bullet. The particular fashion in which she lays her hand down right over the 'seam' area is certainly suggestive of that
(https://i.postimg.cc/SNn18tC5/Zapruder-Mrs-Kennedy.gif)
In a sense, the sheer oddness of the place where Mr. Landis says he found a bullet may speak to the veracity of his story. If you're going to make up a story of finding a bullet in the car, you wouldn't say the bullet was there of all places. Seems so wildly unrealistic.
And yet here we have Zapruder showing us just how that improbable thing might easily have happened.
We need to remember that CIA Image Expert Dino Brugioni examined the Zapruder Film the night after the assassination. Brugioni went over that film from start to finish and then prepared "Briefing Boards" to be used the following day. Decades later, Doug Horne showed Brugioni the Current Zapruder film and then asked Brugioni to compare the Z Film he had just watched to the Z Film he examined on 11/23/63. Brugioni made clear that 1 of the differences in the Current Zapruder film and the one he examined the night after the JFK Assassination was the Current Zapruder Film segment that displayed Jackie on the trunk of the Limo. Brugioni said the Current Z Film segment showing Jackie on the Limo trunk was shorter in length vs this same segment in the Zapruder Film that he examined on the night of 11/23/63. The shorter running time of the film segment displaying Jackie on the JFK Limo trunk could easily be the result of missing Z Film frames that also included the alleged bullet that Landis found.
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We need to remember that CIA Image Expert Dino Brugioni examined the Zapruder Film the night after the assassination. Brugioni went over that film from start to finish and then prepared "Briefing Boards" to be used the following day. Decades later, Doug Horne showed Brugioni the Current Zapruder film and then asked Brugioni to compare the Z Film he had just watched to the Z Film he examined on 11/23/63. Brugioni made clear that 1 of the differences in the Current Zapruder film and the one he examined the night after the JFK Assassination was the Current Zapruder Film segment that displayed Jackie on the trunk of the Limo. Brugioni said the Current Z Film segment showing Jackie on the Limo trunk was shorter in length vs this same segment in the Zapruder Film that he examined on the night of 11/23/63. The shorter running time of the film segment displaying Jackie on the JFK Limo trunk could easily be the result of missing Z Film frames that also included the alleged bullet that Landis found.
You are a fantasist.
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You are a fantasist.
Let's refrain from the name calling and stick to FACTS. The opinion of a CIA Image Expert/Brugioni vs what is it you are proffering?
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Let's refrain from the name calling and stick to FACTS. The opinion of a CIA Image Expert/Brugioni vs what is it you are proffering?
I wasn't name calling.
Anyone who believes the Zapruder film was altered is a fantasist.
Against Brugioni's memory - Roland Zavada.
Zavada was one of the leaders of the team that invented Kodachrome II, the same film as Zapruder's.
Zavada, described as "world's leading expert on 8mm Kodachrome II film" [https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/11/21/zapruder-film-analysis-still-disputed/3672031/], undertook a massively comprehensive examination of the Zapruder film and compiled a 150 pg report -https://archive.org/details/ZavadaReport/page/n21/mode/2up
He concluded that the Zapruder film was an "in camera original" and that any alleged alteration was unfeasible.
The Zavada Report ends any speculation about the Z-film being altered.
It is also possible to use your brain and a modern copy of the Z-film. Look at the gif below and explain to me where this alteration could've occurred. Jackie's movements are fluid and seamless and any alteration would have to take into account the arrival of Hill in the same clip:
(https://i.postimg.cc/yx2jkqpM/jackie.gif)
If that's not good enough, here are the Zapruder and Nix films synchronised. Once you start claiming the Nix film has also been altered you have entered tinfoil territory:
(https://i.postimg.cc/9fbcWQG0/Nix-and-Zapruder.gif) (https://postimages.org/)
The Zavada Report, the Nix/Zapruder films synchronised and a bit of common sense debunk any claims to alteration.
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I wasn't name calling.
Anyone who believes the Zapruder film was altered is a fantasist.
Against Brugioni's memory - Roland Zavada.
Zavada was one of the leaders of the team that invented Kodachrome II, the same film as Zapruder's.
Zavada, described as "world's leading expert on 8mm Kodachrome II film" [https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/11/21/zapruder-film-analysis-still-disputed/3672031/], undertook a massively comprehensive examination of the Zapruder film and compiled a 150 pg report [https://archive.org/stream/ZavadaReport/Zavada+Report_djvu.txt]
He concluded that the Zapruder film was an "in camera original" and that any alleged alteration was unfeasible.
The Zavada Report ends any speculation about the Z-film being altered.
It is also possible to use your brain and a modern copy of the Z-film. Look at the gif below and explain to me where this alteration could've occurred. Jackie's movements are fluid and seamless and any alteration would have to take into account the arrival of Hill in the same clip:
(https://i.postimg.cc/yx2jkqpM/jackie.gif)
If that's not good enough, here are the Zapruder and Nix films synchronised. Once you start claiming the Nix film has also been altered you have entered tinfoil territory:
(https://i.postimg.cc/9fbcWQG0/Nix-and-Zapruder.gif) (https://postimages.org/)
The Zavada Report, the Nix/Zapruder films synchronised and a bit of common sense debunk any claims to alteration.
Hi Dan, Ironically, the great Gerda Dunckel did a gif of Clint Hill getting on the back of the limousine and the Zapruder film is missing a few frames. Both Mr. Zapruder and Mr. Nix felt that frames were missing from their films. Also we know that at least seven frames are missing from the Tina Towner film based on the great work done by Chris Davidson! Thank you for everything! Sincerely yours, Michael
(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/Gerda_Dunckel_15.gif)
Here is what Abraham Zapruder said about his film when asked at the Clay Shaw Trial.22 At this time we offer into evidence that
23 which we previously marked for
24 identification as S-37, the film
25 testified to by Mr. Zapruder.
Page 86
1 MR. DYMOND:
2 At this time we would like to traverse on
3 the offer.
4 THE COURT:
5 You may traverse.
6 BY MR. DYMOND:
7 Q You say you were present when the copies of
8 your film were made?
9 A Yes, sir.
10 Q Were you actually present in the room in which
11 these copies were being made?
12 A Yes, sir, I was in the processing room watching
13 them actually process the film.
14 Q Is the copy you have here today identical to
15 the original or are there any plates
16 missing out of this copy?
17 A That would be hard for me to tell, sir.
18 THE COURT:
19 I cannot hear the witness. What is it?
20 THE WITNESS:
21 That would be hard for me to say. He
22 asked me if there are any frames
23 missing.
24 THE COURT:
25 What is your answer?
Page 87
1 THE WITNESS:
2 I couldn’t say.
3 BY MR. DYMOND:
4 Q So you don’t know whether it is a complete copy
5 of the film you took on the 22nd of
6 November?
7 A Not if there are one or two frames missing, I
8 couldn’t tell you.
9 Q Mr. Zapruder, when these copies were made, do
10 I understand you ended up with an original
11 and two copies of the film?
12 A Yes, sir.
13 Q You gave one copy to the Dallas Police
14 Intelligence Section, is that correct?
15 A Yes, sir.
16 Q One copy to the FBI?
17 A Correct.
18 Q And one copy to Life Magazine?
19 A Yes, sir.
20 Q Where did you get this copy you have produced
21 here in open court today, if you disposed of
22 all the copies?
23 A I got them from Mr. Oser’s office.
24 Q In other words, this film has not been in your
25 possession up until now, is that correct?
Page 88
1 A No. It was given to me in his office.
In this Orville Nix interview, around the 1:40 mark he starts talking about missing frames.
I believe this is Chris Davidson's work showing the seven miising frames in the Tina Towner film.
(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/splice.png)
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Hi Dan, Ironically, the great Gerda Dunckel did a gif of Clint Hill getting on the back of the limousine and the Zapruder film is missing a few frames. Both Mr. Zapruder and Mr. Nix felt that frames were missing from their films. Also we know that at least seven frames are missing from the Tina Towner film based on the great work done by Chris Davidson! Thank you for everything! Sincerely yours, Michael
(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/Gerda_Dunckel_15.gif)
Here is what Abraham Zapruder said about his film when asked at the Clay Shaw Trial.22 At this time we offer into evidence that
23 which we previously marked for
24 identification as S-37, the film
25 testified to by Mr. Zapruder.
Page 86
1 MR. DYMOND:
2 At this time we would like to traverse on
3 the offer.
4 THE COURT:
5 You may traverse.
6 BY MR. DYMOND:
7 Q You say you were present when the copies of
8 your film were made?
9 A Yes, sir.
10 Q Were you actually present in the room in which
11 these copies were being made?
12 A Yes, sir, I was in the processing room watching
13 them actually process the film.
14 Q Is the copy you have here today identical to
15 the original or are there any plates
16 missing out of this copy?
17 A That would be hard for me to tell, sir.
18 THE COURT:
19 I cannot hear the witness. What is it?
20 THE WITNESS:
21 That would be hard for me to say. He
22 asked me if there are any frames
23 missing.
24 THE COURT:
25 What is your answer?
Page 87
1 THE WITNESS:
2 I couldn’t say.
3 BY MR. DYMOND:
4 Q So you don’t know whether it is a complete copy
5 of the film you took on the 22nd of
6 November?
7 A Not if there are one or two frames missing, I
8 couldn’t tell you.
9 Q Mr. Zapruder, when these copies were made, do
10 I understand you ended up with an original
11 and two copies of the film?
12 A Yes, sir.
13 Q You gave one copy to the Dallas Police
14 Intelligence Section, is that correct?
15 A Yes, sir.
16 Q One copy to the FBI?
17 A Correct.
18 Q And one copy to Life Magazine?
19 A Yes, sir.
20 Q Where did you get this copy you have produced
21 here in open court today, if you disposed of
22 all the copies?
23 A I got them from Mr. Oser’s office.
24 Q In other words, this film has not been in your
25 possession up until now, is that correct?
Page 88
1 A No. It was given to me in his office.
In this Orville Nix interview, around the 1:40 mark he starts talking about missing frames.
I believe this is Chris Davidson's work showing the seven miising frames in the Tina Towner film.
(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/splice.png)
Zavada examined the Zapruder original on four different occasions. He concluded it was complete, authentic and hadn't been tampered with in any way.
At no time does Zapruder hint that frames were missing.
It may be the case frames were missing from some of the many copies that were made but not the original.
The Zavada Report ends any speculation about the authenticity of the Z-film. There was no higher authority regarding Kodachrome II, the speculations of non-experts should be taken with a pinch of salt.
(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/Gerda_Dunckel_15.gif)
The synchronisation of these films demonstrates, beyond doubt, that the Z-film was not altered regarding how long Jackie was on the trunk of the limo as suggested by Royell.
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Zavada examined the Zapruder original on four different occasions. He concluded it was complete, authentic and hadn't been tampered with in any way.
At no time does Zapruder hint that frames were missing.
It may be the case frames were missing from some of the many copies that were made but not the original.
The Zavada Report ends any speculation about the authenticity of the Z-film. There was no higher authority regarding Kodachrome II, the speculations of non-experts should be taken with a pinch of salt.
(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/Gerda_Dunckel_15.gif)
The synchronisation of these films demonstrates, beyond doubt, that the Z-film was not altered regarding how long Jackie was on the trunk of the limo as suggested by Royell.
Hi Dan, Thank you for your input! Here are a couple more Gerda The Great gifs! Sincerely yours, Michael
(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/Gerda_Dunckel_10.gif)
(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/Gerda_Dunckel_14.gif)
(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/Gerda_Dunckel_9.gif)
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Hi Dan, Thank you for your input! Here are a couple more Gerda The Great gifs! Sincerely yours, Michael
(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/Gerda_Dunckel_10.gif)
(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/Gerda_Dunckel_14.gif)
(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/Gerda_Dunckel_9.gif)
This is a classic example of the sort of things "alterationists" cling on to.
Below is the frame in question - Z152
One is a Lightbox frame taken from here - https://sites.google.com/site/lightboxzframes/lightbox-frame-sets
One is a Costella frame taken from here - https://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/
It can be seen the "compression artifacts" apparent in the Lightbox frame are not present in the Costella frame.
(https://i.postimg.cc/JzhHXVt5/z152combined.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
The Lightbox site states the following:
The “Lightbox” frames (1280 x 720) have notable compression artifacts.
It is always preferable to use the best available frames when making any analysis of the Z-film.
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This is a classic example of the sort of things "alterationists" cling on to.
Below is the frame in question - Z152
One is a Lightbox frame taken from here - https://sites.google.com/site/lightboxzframes/lightbox-frame-sets
One is a Costella frame taken from here - https://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/
It can be seen the "compression artifacts" apparent in the Lightbox frame are not present in the Costella frame.
(https://i.postimg.cc/JzhHXVt5/z152combined.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
The Lightbox site states the following:
The “Lightbox” frames (1280 x 720) have notable compression artifacts.
It is always preferable to use the best available frames when making any analysis of the Z-film.
Hi Dan, I do not know who wrote this. I knew there were four missing frames from the Zapruder film. It looks like there are between 6 and 9. My best guess is that the 7 missing frames from the Tina Towner film took out the wide turn that SSA William Greer made by mistake. My best guess for the missing Zapruder frames is to take out the stop that SSA William Greer made that is probably best witnessed in the Marie Muchmore film. I guess you cannot see it, but in Gerda's gif of Clint Hill, the Nix film and the Zapruder film do not match! Thank you for everything! Sincerely yours, Michael
Missing and Out of Sequence frames in the Zapruder Film
I used two computer based versions of the Zapruder film to do my comparison. The first one is "JFK Assassination, A Visual Investigation" by MacMillian Digital USA. The Second version I used is "Image of an Assassination, A New Look at the Zapruder Film" by MPI Home Video. Here are the results:
Visual Investigation
New Look
1 to 154
Same
1 to 154
155 (misnumbered)*
Equals
157 (correct)*
156 to 157
Equals Missing
155 to 156
158 to 207
Same
158 to 207
208 to 211
Both Missing
208 to 211
212* to 330
Same
212* to 330
331 (correct)
Equals
332 (out of sequence)
332 (correct)
Equals
331 (out of sequence)
333 to 340
Same
333 to 340
341 (correct) Missing
342 to 349
Equals
341 to 348
350 (correct) Missing
351 to 485
Equals
349 to 483
486 (not numbered) Missing
* Note 1: Frame 157 is a splice. The top 1/3 is frame 155 and the bottom 2/3 is frame 157.
*Note 2: Frame 212 is a splice also. The top portion is frame 208 and the bottom portion is 212.
There are a Total of 9 frames missing from "Image of an Assassination, A New Look at the Zapruder Film". There are only 6 frames missing from the "JFK Assassination, A Visual Investigation" versision of the film.
As I watched my copy of the MPI version on DVD, I noticed some white letters kept flashing on the left of the film in the sprocket hole area at regular intervals. Upon closer examination I found that the letters spelled out "KODACHROME II" and "SAFETY FILM". There are also a couple of numbers and symbols between these two phrases which have no meaning to me.
I decided to find out if this message was at a regular interval such that I could determine if any additional frames were missing. The entire message "KODACHROME II ... SAFETY FILM" is between 17 and 18 frames long. The message is flashed 7 times through the Zapruder film. The message can be seen from frames 25 to 41, 92 to 109, 157 to 173, 224 to 241, 288 to 305, 354 to 370 and 418 to 435. The start of the message does not begin exactly in the same place each time in relation to the sprocket holes.
My next step was to measure the distance between each repeating message. After adding in frame 341 & 350 and assuming that 155, 156 & 208 to 211 were the only missing frames, I measured the partial distance that the message took up at the beginning and ending of the phrase. The distance between the 1st & 2nd is 50 5/8 frames; 2nd & 3rd is 48; 3rd & 4th is 50 5/8; 4th & 5th is 47 7/8; 5th & 6th is 50 5/8; and the 6th & 7th is 48. I believe these measurements are close enough to show a pattern: 51; 48; 51; 48; 51; 48. If any 1 or more frames are either added or subtracted then the whole pattern is thrown off. I believe this pattern proves the Zapruder film is "authentic" in that there are only 9 frames missing!
(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/Gerda_Dunckel_15.gif)
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Hi Dan, I do not know who wrote this. I knew there were four missing frames from the Zapruder film. It looks like there are between 6 and 9. My best guess is that the 7 missing frames from the Tina Towner film took out the wide turn that SSA William Greer made by mistake. My best guess for the missing Zapruder frames is to take out the stop that SSA William Greer made that is probably best witnessed in the Marie Muchmore film. I guess you cannot see it, but in Gerda's gif of Clint Hill, the Nix film and the Zapruder film do not match! Thank you for everything! Sincerely yours, Michael
Missing and Out of Sequence frames in the Zapruder Film
I used two computer based versions of the Zapruder film to do my comparison. The first one is "JFK Assassination, A Visual Investigation" by MacMillian Digital USA. The Second version I used is "Image of an Assassination, A New Look at the Zapruder Film" by MPI Home Video. Here are the results:
Visual Investigation
New Look
1 to 154
Same
1 to 154
155 (misnumbered)*
Equals
157 (correct)*
156 to 157
Equals Missing
155 to 156
158 to 207
Same
158 to 207
208 to 211
Both Missing
208 to 211
212* to 330
Same
212* to 330
331 (correct)
Equals
332 (out of sequence)
332 (correct)
Equals
331 (out of sequence)
333 to 340
Same
333 to 340
341 (correct) Missing
342 to 349
Equals
341 to 348
350 (correct) Missing
351 to 485
Equals
349 to 483
486 (not numbered) Missing
* Note 1: Frame 157 is a splice. The top 1/3 is frame 155 and the bottom 2/3 is frame 157.
*Note 2: Frame 212 is a splice also. The top portion is frame 208 and the bottom portion is 212.
There are a Total of 9 frames missing from "Image of an Assassination, A New Look at the Zapruder Film". There are only 6 frames missing from the "JFK Assassination, A Visual Investigation" versision of the film.
As I watched my copy of the MPI version on DVD, I noticed some white letters kept flashing on the left of the film in the sprocket hole area at regular intervals. Upon closer examination I found that the letters spelled out "KODACHROME II" and "SAFETY FILM". There are also a couple of numbers and symbols between these two phrases which have no meaning to me.
I decided to find out if this message was at a regular interval such that I could determine if any additional frames were missing. The entire message "KODACHROME II ... SAFETY FILM" is between 17 and 18 frames long. The message is flashed 7 times through the Zapruder film. The message can be seen from frames 25 to 41, 92 to 109, 157 to 173, 224 to 241, 288 to 305, 354 to 370 and 418 to 435. The start of the message does not begin exactly in the same place each time in relation to the sprocket holes.
My next step was to measure the distance between each repeating message. After adding in frame 341 & 350 and assuming that 155, 156 & 208 to 211 were the only missing frames, I measured the partial distance that the message took up at the beginning and ending of the phrase. The distance between the 1st & 2nd is 50 5/8 frames; 2nd & 3rd is 48; 3rd & 4th is 50 5/8; 4th & 5th is 47 7/8; 5th & 6th is 50 5/8; and the 6th & 7th is 48. I believe these measurements are close enough to show a pattern: 51; 48; 51; 48; 51; 48. If any 1 or more frames are either added or subtracted then the whole pattern is thrown off. I believe this pattern proves the Zapruder film is "authentic" in that there are only 9 frames missing!
(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/Gerda_Dunckel_15.gif)
I knew there were four missing frames from the Zapruder film.
Which version of the Z-film?
Read the Zavada Report if you really want all your questions answered about the authenticity of the Z-film - https://archive.org/details/ZavadaReport/page/n71/mode/2up?view=theater
Otherwise it's just regurgitating the speculation of people who are non-experts in the field.
The notion that a bloc of frames were removed from the Z-film to hide the fact the limo stopped is fantasyland stuff. There is way too much movement of the occupants in the limo to hide such an effect. The problem with the Z-film is, because of the way it's filmed, it makes it very difficult to see that the limo radically slows down just before the head shot. The version of the Z-film below makes it very easy to appreciate just how much the limo slows down prior to the head shot:
Move on from any "alterationist" notions. It really is a waste of time.
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I knew there were four missing frames from the Zapruder film.
Which version of the Z-film?
Read the Zavada Report if you really want all your questions answered about the authenticity of the Z-film - https://archive.org/details/ZavadaReport/page/n71/mode/2up?view=theater
Otherwise it's just regurgitating the speculation of people who are non-experts in the field.
The notion that a bloc of frames were removed from the Z-film to hide the fact the limo stopped is fantasyland stuff. There is way too much movement of the occupants in the limo to hide such an effect. The problem with the Z-film is, because of the way it's filmed, it makes it very difficult to see that the limo radically slows down just before the head shot. The version of the Z-film below makes it very easy to appreciate just how much the limo slows down prior to the head shot:
Move on from any "alterationist" notions. It really is a waste of time.
Hi Dan, It is from the original. This is from Wikipedia: Thank you for everything! Sincerely yours, Michael
In October 1964, the U.S. Government Printing Office released 26 volumes of testimony and evidence compiled by the Warren Commission. Volume 18 of the commission's hearings reproduced 158 frames from the Zapruder film in black and white. However, frames 208–211 were missing, a splice was visible in frames 207 and 212, frames 314 and 315 were switched around, and frame 284 was a repeat of 283.[16] In response to an inquiry, then-FBI director J. Edgar Hoover wrote in 1965 that frames 314 and 315 had been swapped due to a printing error, and that that error did not exist in the original Warren Commission exhibits. In early 1967, Life released a statement saying that four frames of the original (frames 208–211) were accidentally destroyed, and the adjacent frames damaged, by a Life photo lab technician on November 23, 1963. Life released those missing frames from the first-generation copy it had received from the film's original version;[17] the Zapruder frames outside the section used in the commission's exhibits, frames 155–157 and 341, were also damaged and were spliced out of the original rendition of the film, but are present in the first-generation copies.[18]
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You are a fantasist.
Just a reminder regarding your name calling.
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Just a reminder regarding your name calling.
Do you still believe the Z-film was altered for nefarious reasons?
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Let's face it. Zavada really has no idea whether he was looking at the "original" or some variation of the "original". Time/Life bought the original and from that point who knows what happened? Time/Life owned both the original and had Josiah Thompson on their payroll. They were playing both ends against the middle, and possibly acting as a firewall for the CIA. There were "Briefing Boards" prepared from the Z Film on both the Sat and Sunday night following the assassination. My thought is the CIA had prepared a Z Film alteration and submitted that for the Briefing Board sessions. The final hurdle was seeing if their Z Film/alteration could pass the scrutiny of CIA Image Expert Brugioni. Why else would they hold 2 "Briefing Board" sessions only 1 day apart for the same exact film?