JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate => Topic started by: Fred Litwin on June 05, 2023, 12:05:11 PM
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https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-the-cia-use-a-mk-ultra-psychiatrist-to-interfere-with-jack-ruby-s-case (https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-the-cia-use-a-mk-ultra-psychiatrist-to-interfere-with-jack-ruby-s-case)
Did the CIA use a MK-Ultra Psychiatrist to Interfere with Jack Ruby's Case?
Jefferson Morley and Tucker Carlson have recently alleged that Dr. Louis Jolyon West, who worked on the CIA's MK-Ultra program, somehow interfered with Jack Ruby's case. The allegations are quite fuzzy. Here is the unvarnished truth.
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Good report Fred. Morley is buying into the crazier theories as of late.
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To honestly suggest that there is nothing suspect about MKULTRA's head of evil, Jolyon West, CIA's man tasked illegal experiments on prisoners and unsuspecting members of the public, for the purpose of inducing temporary insanity in some of the victims ... to suggest the people reading your crap shouldn't be alarmed says a lot about the both of you. Many of the subjects of Jolyon West's experiments were left permanently damaged. Lives ruined. Sinister experiments with a whiff of Nazi time acts committed against humans imprisoned in their death camps.
You two should be very careful vouching for the past crimes of CIA-linked operatives. For surely, history will judge MKULTRA, Operation Paperclip, etc, all of these will be seen as continuation of NAZI's crimes against humanity. These are some of USA's most sinister past policies. They should be denounced by every right-thinking person.
As neither of you have denounced the hideous evil nature of MKULTRA & Jolyon West's ILLEGAL experiments on humans to induce sometimes psychological torture and brainwashing, I can only infer you both support them?
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That is not what I said. Perhaps you did not read my blog post.
My blog post is about Dr,. West and Jack Ruby.
fred
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That is not what I said. Perhaps you did not read my blog post.
My blog post is about Dr,. West and Jack Ruby.
fred
Fred Litwin, once again, you have not condemned Dr. West (as you call him). Any decent thinking human that has done any research on your so-called Dr. West should be alarmed to learn the lead protagonist in CIA's MKULTRA was brought in to meet Jack Ruby. Afterwards Jack Ruby displayed erratic mental health. With what we know now; all that has been declassified about MKULTRA & West, you should without any hesitation be condemning this blatant interference by the CIA with the most important witness alive at the time.
You are a fraud Mr Litwin. You had the chance to denounce the illegal experimentation & torture of humans. These were crimes of which Jolyon West carried out at the behest of the CIA. For you to nonchalantly ignore West's CIA background with such evil shows you are without much moral guidance.
But most likely, you made this dumb post on your blog for your own vanity. I can only imagine you haven't thoroughly researched the topic of MKULTRA & West. No one could be so ignorant of the evil acts committed against fellow humans.
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I guess you can't rebut anything in my article. Thanks for playing.
fred
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https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-the-cia-use-a-mk-ultra-psychiatrist-to-interfere-with-jack-ruby-s-case (https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-the-cia-use-a-mk-ultra-psychiatrist-to-interfere-with-jack-ruby-s-case)
Did the CIA use a MK-Ultra Psychiatrist to Interfere with Jack Ruby's Case?
Jefferson Morley and Tucker Carlson have recently alleged that Dr. Louis Jolyon West, who worked on the CIA's MK-Ultra program, somehow interfered with Jack Ruby's case. The allegations are quite fuzzy. Here is the unvarnished truth.
Anything Tucker Carlson claims is an outright lie.
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Why did Dr. Jolly West get involved with Jack Ruby in the first place? Were there no other psychiatrists in the huge state of Texas?
It's well documented that West was involved with MK-Ultra and experimented with LSD. Whether or not he knew the CIA was funding his research remains up for debate. But it's still a strange coincidence that he is connected to Jack Ruby.
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If you would read my post, you would see how West got involved. He was a renowned psychiatrist back then, and Ruby's defense team asked
him to evaluate Ruby.
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If you would read my post, you would see how West got involved. He was a renowned psychiatrist back then, and Ruby's defense team asked
him to evaluate Ruby.
Fred, just stop. West's specialty was 'MIND CONTROL'. To title West as a psychiatrist, in the sense he was there to help Ruby, is utter bollocks.
(https://i.postimg.cc/0jMNgByk/jolly-west-screenshot.png)
West was an expert in psychological torture. West proposed the very same techniques he was using during MKULTRA experiments for the treatment of Ruby. In particular - use of Sodium pentothal & Hypnosis.
Ruby was left alone with West in an isolated cell whereupon Ruby exhibits massive deterioration in his mental state. And we're supposed to believe this wasn't the plan? Bringing in a Dr Mengele Nazi type doctor whose specialty is mental manipulation & torture. As Fred Litwin likes to gaslight, to ''EVALUATE RUBY''
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It was NOT West who wanted to use sodium pentothal and hypnosis. That was the suggestion of Jack Ruby's lawyer. Why don't you read
my post.
As for sodium pentothal and hypnosis - I know one person who did use those techniques.
Jim Garrison.
Do you believe he was part of MK-Ultra.
fred
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Fred Litwin, once again, you have not condemned Dr. West (as you call him). Any decent thinking human that has done any research on your so-called Dr. West should be alarmed to learn the lead protagonist in CIA's MKULTRA was brought in to meet Jack Ruby. Afterwards Jack Ruby displayed erratic mental health. With what we know now; all that has been declassified about MKULTRA & West, you should without any hesitation be condemning this blatant interference by the CIA with the most important witness alive at the time.
You are a fraud Mr Litwin. You had the chance to denounce the illegal experimentation & torture of humans. These were crimes of which Jolyon West carried out at the behest of the CIA. For you to nonchalantly ignore West's CIA background with such evil shows you are without much moral guidance.
But most likely, you made this dumb post on your blog for your own vanity. I can only imagine you haven't thoroughly researched the topic of MKULTRA & West. No one could be so ignorant of the evil acts committed against fellow humans.
There is no “The” in CIA. Let’s get one thing right.
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There is no “The” in CIA. Let’s get one thing right.
For many of these people - the political types - this isn't about the assassination of JFK, the actual event: it's about using the tragedy as an instrument to go after whatever monsters they have in their heads. "The CIA" is at the top of the list. LBJ. Hoover. "The military". Or for Mr. Reeves the US as a whole. British anti-Americanism is always fascinating in a car accident sort of way.
There's been no evidence presented - none here - that Dr. West engaged in unethical behavior. Yes, MK-Ultra turned into a horrible program, it used innocent people as guinea pigs. But where is the evidence that *West* did any of this? That he didn't use professional standards such as informed consent with the subjects he used? Again, none has been presented here. If he did I'll lead the protests. MK-Ultra was terrible but not everyone associated with it is equally culpable for the wrongs done.
As to Ruby: what is the claim? That West did what? Anything? Brainwashed him? Injected him with cancer cells? That's silly and it's indicative of how the JFK conspiracy crowd got its bad reputation: they earned it.
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For many of these people - the political types - this isn't about the assassination of JFK, the actual event: it's about using the tragedy as an instrument to go after whatever monsters they have in their heads. "The CIA" is at the top of the list. LBJ. Hoover. "The military". Or for Mr. Reeves the US as a whole. British anti-Americanism is always fascinating in a car accident sort of way.
There's been no evidence presented - none here - that Dr. West engaged in unethical behavior. Yes, MK-Ultra turned into a horrible program, it used innocent people as guinea pigs. But where is the evidence that *West* did any of this? That he didn't use professional standards such as informed consent with the subjects he used? Again, none has been presented here. If he did I'll lead the protests. MK-Ultra was terrible but not everyone associated with it is equally culpable for the wrongs done.
As to Ruby: what is the claim? That West did what? Anything? Brainwashed him? Injected him with cancer cells? That's silly and it's indicative of how the JFK conspiracy crowd got its bad reputation: they earned it.
Nice to see you finding the courage to emerge from your lowly lurking shadows of shame just to pile on when someone else firstly interacts negatively. Should we devote some time analyzing the deficiencies in character that would override your true belief this case is already solved, and that you just hang around here for the funsies of trolling the crap out of people when you calculate you've got a better chance of not being taken apart so easily if you interject your nasty pathetic passive-aggressive commentary on the back of someone else's rodeo.
How do you like those eggs?
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MKULTRA researcher wanted to continue his mind control experiments at the same time he was treating Ruby
West also said that his LSD research was limited to animals, although it’s known from the recovered documents that he worked with humans. While he publicly denied being aware that the project was CIA funded, documents show that he was explicitly aware of it and he was in direct contact with the CIA project heads.
A recovered CIA document listing different MKULTRA subprojects shows that Subproject 43, associated with West and occurring at the University of Oklahoma, began in 1955 and ended in 1956 (when he also retired from the Air Force). The LSD work with animals that he and Sharp referred to took place years later and may or may not have involved human experimentation (although it’s known that his earlier work did). It might be easy to dismiss this, if not for the proposal for West to continue his MKULTRA work with CIA for another 11 years.
Other researchers who previously examined some of the documents embedded at the bottom of the article missed crucial facts. Colin Ross’ examination in The CIA Doctors describes the proposal, but fails to note the fact that it was written after the $20,000+ documented funds that West received from CIA. The letter accompanied with the proposal is dated February 1956, and clearly references upcoming work for the next fiscal year.
In the first subsection of the proposal itself, West says that he wants to continue the work for another 11 years. ”It is proposed that the experiments begun during 1955-56 involving hypnotizability, suggestibility, and the roles of certain drugs in altering these attributes, be continued and extended during 1956-67.” This would place West’s treatment of Ruby about three years before the proposed end of this particular MKULTRA subproject. In the proposal, West describes several elements of experiments that match the isolated experience of Ruby and West’s stated reason for going to see him.
The Agency’s response to West’s proposal was apparently ordered destroyed along with all the other MKULTRA records. However, he continued to appear in CIA files as late as 1991. According to one document, West was indirectly involved in the STARGATE program which had a surprising amount of crossover with MKULTRA and its sister programs. While this particular project was undertaken by the Defence Intelligence Agency, the CIA’s counterpart in the Department of Defense, it was considered a CIA equity.
According to the document, “Serious government-funded research of both these domains began in 1973 when the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) initiated a modest effort to determine if a genuine anomalous phenomenon could be verified and to assess the degree to which it could be applied to general intelligence problems.” Coincidentally, 1973 is the same year that the MKULTRA program was officially terminated.
While the research project’s stated goal was studying anomalous phenomena such as remote viewing and remote interference, the experiments themselves focused on remotely altering someone’s perceptions and nervous system, essentially making the research dual-purpose. If it had been successful, the research could have been used not only as part of a psychic remote viewing program but to design a way to remotely interfere with someone’s perceptions, personality, or consciousness. While many of the documents relating to this program wound up in declassified CIA files, being CIA equities and an extension of a CIA program, many more seem to remain classified.
Whatever evidence there was about CIA’s continuing relationship with West, and whether or not they accepted his proposal to continue his MKULTRA research, was destroyed decades ago. This blanket destruction removed any chance to properly exonerate the Agency, leaving just enough information to provide disturbing glimpses into the potential connections between Ruby and MKULTRA after Oswald was assassinated.
https://www.muckrock.com/news/archives/2017/dec/19/mkruby/
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The BIG fact of this Ruby & Jolly West relationship in 1964 is that West's CIA/MKULTRA background was still classified. Hidden. Neither West nor the CIA disclosed their relationship at the time he was involved with Jack Ruby: the Church committee a decade later revealed CIA's funding of West's mind control research in Oklahoma, and then to UCLA.
Fred Litwin, and Tracy Parnell's advocacy of Fred's attempts to gaslight people, on the subject of Jolly West, has revealed the depth of their dishonesty.
Oh yeah, I nearly forgot, Steve M. Galbraith has the cheek to try and smear people with mental illness if they dare to question the CIA's involvement with the assassination/cover up of JFK. That is what you'd expect from a lowly gutless creep on the internet.
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There is no evidence that there was ANY relationship between West and the CIA when he examined Ruby - at the request of the defense.
None.
His work in MK-Ultra ended in 1956, perhaps 1957.
fred
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There is no evidence that there was ANY relationship between West and the CIA when he examined Ruby - at the request of the defense.
None.
His work in MK-Ultra ended in 1956, perhaps 1957.
fred
There's no surviving documentation detailing the 'contractors' involved with MKULTRA because *surprise surprise* the CIA destroyed the majority of evidence. As per policy. The scandal of CIA sponsored MKULTRA experiments being carried out at major universities only came to light because something went wrong in the document deletion policy of the CIA, up until the late 50's. Almost everything after the late 50's was censored or disappeared. This was admitted by Helms.
Investigative efforts were hampered by the fact that CIA Director Richard Helms�ordered all MK-ULTRA files destroyed in 1973; the Church Committee and Rockefeller Commission investigations relied on the sworn testimony of direct participants and on the relatively small number of documents that survived Helms' destruction order.1-41 Although the CIA insists that MK-ULTRA-type experiments have been abandoned, 14-year CIA veteran Victor Marchetti has stated in various interviews that the CIA routinely conducts disinformation campaigns and that CIA mind control research continued.
From the CIA's own site. Dear Fred. https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/document/06760269
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Jack Ruby was interviewed shortly before his death and with nothing to lose gives a simple and understandable explanation for his actions.
https://www.jfk-online.com/rubydeathbed.html
JohnM
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The BIG fact of this Ruby & Jolly West relationship in 1964 is that West's CIA/MKULTRA background was still classified. Hidden. Neither West nor the CIA disclosed their relationship at the time he was involved with Jack Ruby: the Church committee a decade later revealed CIA's funding of West's mind control research in Oklahoma, and then to UCLA.
Fred Litwin, and Tracy Parnell's advocacy of Fred's attempts to gaslight people, on the subject of Jolly West, has revealed the depth of their dishonesty.
Oh yeah, I nearly forgot, Steve M. Galbraith has the cheek to try and smear people with mental illness if they dare to question the CIA's involvement with the assassination/cover up of JFK. That is what you'd expect from a lowly gutless creep on the internet.
I don’t know if it’s naivety or willful blindness to the deception and corruption of the CIA.
Here’s former CIA director, Mike Pompeo, admitting to how intentional deception was business as usual at the CIA
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I mention all of this in my post, if you would only read it.
I am glad that you cannot counter my statement. There is NO evidence that West was associated with the CIA when he examined Ruby.
None. I am sorry that you are upset about that.
fred
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I mention all of this in my post, if you would only read it.
I am glad that you cannot counter my statement. There is NO evidence that West was associated with the CIA when he examined Ruby.
None. I am sorry that you are upset about that.
fred
Lol, you are so disingenuous. Richard Helms had almost all MKULTRA records deleted. And you are not disgusted that this was done? By the way, the records that were recovered implicated Jolly West as spearheading the CIA's attempts to terrorize and disrupt the mind of subjects. Jolly West's research was 'how to' inflict insanity upon an unsuspecting victim.
There may not be any documented evidence of Jolly West's work for the CIA (after 59) because POS Helms had the records destroyed. But for you to not be concerned he might have been working for them at the time he spent time alone with Jack Ruby exposes your true shady character. A supposed former conspiracy theorist that changed his tune and now doesn't believe a conspiracy existed.
I don't believe a word you say Fred Litwin. You stand for nothing.
From Fred's 'About the Author' on Amazon --
Fred started the Free Thinking Film Society to showcase films on liberty, freedom and democracy
You really take the piss Fred Litwin. Freedom and democracy lol, you really are a shining example of someone that showcases all that's great about liberty, freedom and democracy. Just like when Richard Helms decided to destroy any evidence the CIA interfered with the mental health of Jack Ruby, perversely corrupting the trial of the most valuable witness alive in the JFK assassination.
Your buddy Helms really helped push those ideals you supposedly support, eh Fred Litwin!
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It doesn't matter what I think about Richard Helms destroying MK-Ultra files.
The plain fact of the matter is that there is NO evidence that Dr. West had
any association with the CIA in 1964 when he examined Ruby.
This is not about me. It's about the facts.
fred
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I mention all of this in my post, if you would only read it.
I am glad that you cannot counter my statement. There is NO evidence that West was associated with the CIA when he examined Ruby.
None. I am sorry that you are upset about that.
fred
There’s circumstantial evidence that West’s relationship with the CIA continued beyond the 1950s but at this point it’s not conclusively proven. And that’s largely because the CIA tried to destroy most of the evidence of their MKULTRA programs.
I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make other than displaying how naive you are (assuming you’re making these silly claims in good faith).
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There is no circumstantial evidence that West had any relationship with the CIA when he examined Ruby.
None.
My point is clear. He was hired by the defense team, and he examined Ruby.
Nothing nefarious.
fred