JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate => Topic started by: Marjan Rynkiewicz on May 20, 2021, 10:57:53 AM
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Here is my estimate of the movements of Romack & of Rackley & their positions when the motorcade was passing.
Rackley walked from his office somewhere in the large building, & stood in the truck yard for 5 or 10 minutes.
Rackley didn't hear any shots, but he saw pigeons flying off the tops of buildings.
Romack was eating lunch in the loading dock & he walked out & stood with Rackley & workmate Lee, & then walked to near the TSBD.
Romack can be seen walking towards the TSBD in the Hughes footage as Queen Mary is turning from Houston onto Elm, as shown by the orange line.
Romack would have heard the first shot a few seconds after the Hughes footage ends, & the last shots within say 11 sec of the first.
Romack probly got no closer than 50 yd from the TSBD. He didn't speak to Officer Barnett, who ran 20 ft past the north-east corner of the TSBD.
(https://i.postimg.cc/rsstqFkb/Romack-Rackley.jpg)
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If u look wheely hard u can see Romack walking from right to left across the white of the far building.
Unfortunately Hughes finished his filming at that point.
Rackley is probly hidden by thems two guys. Romack's workmate Lee might be there too.
Rackley said that Rackley was in the center of Houston. But that would put him a bit west (ie left here) of where we see Romack last.
Praps Rackley is indeed standing there, & Romack is joining him. Its too blurry to tell.
Someone is watching.
(https://i.postimg.cc/y8kzhnSq/Webp-net-gifmaker-5.gif)
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Actually i think we can see Rackley.
He aint in the center of Houston (extn), like he said, but he is on the eastern boundary.
Yep, thats gottabehim.
(https://i.postimg.cc/LsK5G87v/Romack-Rackley.jpg)
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A closer look.
Romack had a white shirt against a white background, makes it more difficult to see him.
(https://i.postimg.cc/j2DGV98T/Romack-Rackley-small-giff.gif)
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The testimony of George W. Rackley, Sr., was taken at 11 a.m., on April 8, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. David W. Belin, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.
Mr. BELIN. Mr. Rackley, do you want to stand and raise your right band and be sworn, please.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give before the President's Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy, is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. RACKLEY. I do.
Mr. BELIN. You can be seated. Your name is George W. Rackley, Sr.?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Where do you live, Mr. Rackley?
Mr. RACKLEY. I live at Ferris.
Mr. BELIN. Texas?
Mr. RACKLEY. Ferris, Tex.
Mr. BELIN. Is that a suburb of Dallas?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Were you raised in Texas?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Born in Texas?
Mr. RACKLEY. No; I was born in Alabama.
Mr. BELIN. Raised in Texas? Go to school here in Texas?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. How far did you get through school?
Mr. RACKLEY. Fifth.
Mr. BELIN. Fifth grade?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?
Mr. RACKLEY. Well, I went to farming.
Mr. BELIN. You went to farming?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Well, I am from Iowa. We do a lot of farming up there.
Mr. RACKLEY. That is what I do here.
Mr. BELIN. All right, then what did you do?
Mr. RACKLEY. Well, at the present I am working for the Coordinated Railroad Co.
Mr. BELIN. For the what?
Mr. RACKLEY. For the Katy. It is a Katy railroad project, but it is a coordinated deal.
Mr. BELIN. What are you doing?
Mr. RACKLEY. I unload trailers.
Mr. BELIN. You unload trailers?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Let me backtrack. How old are you?
Mr. RACKLEY. I am 60.
Mr. BELIN. You said you quit school in the Fifth Grade and went to farming. How long did you farm?
Mr. RACKLEY. I farmed up to 3 years ago.
Mr. BELIN. You farmed up to 3 years ago?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. What kind of farming?
Mr. RACKLEY. Well, I raised cotton and corn.
Mr. BELIN. Then 3 years ago where did you go to work?
Mr. RACKLEY. I went to work here. Well, I have been working off in spare times for about 8 years.
Mr. BELIN. For the same place?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes; same place.
Mr. BELIN. Is that here in Dallas?
Mr. RACKLEY. That is here in Dallas.
Mr. BELIN. Where in Dallas is it?
Mr. RACKLEY. It is on Ross and Market Street, about two blocks from the courthouse.
Mr. BELIN. Now where is it with relation to the corner of Elm and Houston?
Mr. RACKLEY. Well, it is on up on Ross. Two blocks north is where our place is.
Mr. BELIN. Your place is two blocks north of the corner of Elm and Houston?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. You work indoors or outdoors?
Mr. RACKLEY. Just all over town.
Mr. BELIN. Just all over town?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Where were you working around the noon hour of Friday, November 22, 1963?
Mr. RACKLEY. Well, I was there at the office.
Mr. BELIN. Were you inside or outside?
Mr. RACKLEY. Our office is just a little small place. Well, just outside, you might say, of it.
Mr. BELIN. Did you see the President's motorcade at all on that day?
Mr. RACKLEY. No, sir; I didn't
Mr. BELIN. Were you standing with anyone there?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. With whom?
Mr. RACKLEY. With James Romack. I and him had walked out.
Mr. BELIN. You had walked out?
Mr. RACKLEY. I heard the siren; the parade was coming.
Mr. BELIN. You heard sirens?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes, sir. And I had walked out in front of the place, to where I could get a better view, as a fellow says.
Mr. BELIN. Where were you standing?
Mr. RACKLEY. Well. I had walked out in the truck lot.
Mr. BELIN. In the truck lot?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. And was that --
Mr. RACKLEY. You might say would have been in the middle of the street.
Mr. BELIN. Would that have been in the middle of Houston Street?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. In what direction were you facing?
Mr. RACKLEY. Facing south.
Mr. BELIN. All right, did you see the motorcade at all?
Mr. RACKLEY. No.
Mr. BELIN. What did you see?
Mr. RACKLEY. I didn't practically see anything.
Mr. BELIN. Did you hear any sounds at all?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes. Heard the sounds of the parade.
Mr. BELIN. Did you hear the sounds that sounded like firecrackers or shots at all?
Mr. RACKLEY. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Didn't hear that?
Mr. RACKLEY. No.
Mr. BELIN. About how far would you have been from the northeast corner of the Texas School Book Depository when you were standing there?
Mr. RACKLEY. I would say right at a block.
Mr. BELIN. About a block. Do you have any idea about how many feet that is?
Mr. RACKLEY. No, sir; I don't
Mr. BELIN. Were you just standing there, or were you walking?
Mr. RACKLEY. I was just standing there.
Mr. BELIN. Did you see anything happen at all there?
Mr. RACKLEY. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did you see anyone in the parade?
Mr. RACKLEY. The only thing - I told the guy, he was down there, the only thing that I saw that looked suspicious to me, there was something like a hundred pigeons flew up like you shot into them, and I noticed that, but I never heard no shots.
Mr. BELIN. Where did you see them fly from?
Mr. RACKLEY. From over the top of the building.
Mr. BELIN. Which building? The School Book Depository or over on the other side?
Mr. RACKLEY. The Trinity Building.
Mr. BELIN. Which building did they fly off of?
Mr. RACKLEY. I wasn't looking. I just seen they all flew together.
Mr. BELIN. Did it look like they were flying up from both buildings?
Mr. RACKLEY. Both buildings.
Mr. BELIN. You don't know about when this took place?
Mr. RACKLEY. No, sir; I don't.
Mr. BELIN. About what time was it that you were looking that way, do you remember, offhand?
Mr. RACKLEY. No; but it was just at the time that the parade was nearing there, I know that.
Mr. BELIN. Had any of the parade already gone by the corner of Elm and Houston?
Mr. RACKLEY. I couldn't say.
Mr. BELIN. So you don't know whether it did or didn't?
Mr. RACKLEY. No.
Mr. BELIN. But would you say it was about that time that the motorcade was to be going by there?
Mr. RACKLEY. It was between 11 and 12.
Mr. BELIN. It was between 11 and 12?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. O'clock?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. What time did you - was this before or after you had lunch?
Mr. RACKLEY. Well. I just eat just any time I get a chance.
Mr. BELIN. Do you know accurately what time it was?
Mr. RACKLEY. No, sir; I don't.
Mr. BELIN. Could it have been as late as 12:30?
Mr. RACKLEY. No.
Mr. BELIN. It was before 12:30?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Before 12?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Sometime between 11 and 12?
Mr. RACKLEY. Well, it was at the time that, really, that they had shot him, because I was there when the policemen covered the place.
Mr. BELIN. You were there when the policemen covered the place?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. With relation to the time that the policemen covered the place, how many minutes before that did you see the birds fly up?
Mr. RACKLEY. I saw the pigeons there 2 or 3 minutes before that.
Mr. BELIN. Now after you saw the pigeons, you saw the police covering the place?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Within 2 or 3 minutes after you saw the pigeons?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did you see any people coming out the back door at all?
Mr. RACKLEY. No.
Mr. BELIN. Could you see the back door of the Texas School Book Depository?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. That was at the dock they have back there?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Were you looking towards that direction?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. About how long did you keep your eyes fixed over there?
Mr. RACKLEY. Oh, I would say 5 minutes anyhow. Probably 10. I was looking up that way at all times.
Mr. BELIN. Five or 10 minutes, you figure?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes
Mr. BELIN. Did you see any people leave the Texas School Book Depository by way of the rear exit?
Mr. RACKLEY. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did you see any people running north on Houston Street?
Mr. RACKLEY. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did you tell your company supervisor that there had been some shooting?
Mr. RACKLEY. No; not right then.
Mr. BELIN. Later did you tell them?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes; I imagine.
Mr. BELIN. You said you stayed there 5 or 10 minutes looking to the south?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do after that?
Mr. RACKLEY. Well, when the policemen began to crowd around and they all over the place, well then I told him I thought that something had happened over there.
I wasn't expecting anything like that until I just, of course, seen the policemen all out there running back. They came out the back door and the side
Mr. BELIN. did you tell that to that you thought something happened there?
Mr. RACKLEY. Gail George.
Mr. BELIN. Is that your Forman?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. After you said you kept your eyes on this looking south for 5 or 10 minutes, what did you do after that?
Mr. RACKLEY. Well, I went back to the office.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do after that?
Mr. RACKLEY. Well, I don't remember.
Mr. BELIN. During this period of 5 or 10 minutes, did you walk close to the building at all, or just stand there?
Mr. RACKLEY. Just stood out there.
Mr. BELIN. What about Romack? Did he stand with you, or did he walk closer?
Mr. RACKLEY. He walked closer.
Mr. BELIN. Anything else you can think of, whether I have asked it or not, that in any way might be relevant to this Inquiry?
Mr. RACKLEY. It wasn't a thing that I knew. I didn't really know or expect what was taking place.
Mr. BELIN. Other than the pigeons?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Sir, we thank you for your cooperation. You have a right, if you want, to come back down and read your testimony and sign it, or you can just waive doing that and have the court reporter send it directly to us without your taking another trip down here. You can do It either way.
Mr. RACKLEY. I can sign it now.
Mr. BELIN. You can either waive signing it or else you can come down again and read it and sign it. By waiving, I mean you just let it go, assuming that the court reporter will accurately transcribe it, or you have a right to come In and read it.
Mr. RACKLEY. I will just let it go.
Mr. BELIN. You waive signing it?
Mr. RACKLEY. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. That is all for now.
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From the other forum.
Pat Speer made an interesting observation earlier in this thread about Worrell that applies to the other witnesses statements/testimonies I've read recently regarding the back of the TSBD.
None of them saw Vicki Adams and Sandra Styles run out the back dock door and around the back of the building to the rail road yards.
Two of them would not have. Sam Pate and DPD Sargent D.V. Harkness didn't arrive in the area until 4-5 minutes after the last shot.
But Worrell ran what 50-60, maybe 70 yards (maybe 40) after the 3rd shot to almost directly across the street from where they would have come out, and stood there catching his breath for three minutes. It doesn't take most young men a minute to run 70 yards or less. Vicki said the were down the stairs heading out the back door a minute after the last shot. Yet Worrell did see a man burst out the door and run south on Houston 3 minutes after the last shot.
James Romack from 125 - 175 then 75 yards away on north Houston saw Officer Barnett running north on Houston from Elm shortly after the third shot towards him. He observed Barnett observing the area for likely close to a minute after he ran 20 feet past the back of the building. He never saw anyone else until Sam Pate arrived. No skirts or dress tails swishing in the breeze as the women ran out the back door, down the stairs and around the back. Remember, women didn't wear pant's or slacks in public at the time.
Barnett ran north on Houston from Elm after the third shot. Like Worrell less than a minute to get there. He got back to the front door in 2 1/2 minutes, "Maybe between 2 1/2 - 3 minutes". So he hung around observing at least 30 seconds to a minute. But he didn't see Vicki an Sandra run out and around.
Or at least none of them mentioned it. A little more than a bit odd.
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The most important thing I came across reading the back door witnesses testimony and statement in one case is about officers, FBI or Secret Service guarding the back door. Though never being identified as such. Of the five such I've read of four mention something about this. Taken in conjunction with reports of Secret Service agents on the grassy knoll, denied by the Secret Service, this seems important.
In chronological order.
James Worrell ran at the 3rd shot from the front corner of the TSBD to the back of it and across the street. After about 3 minutes the only person he reported seeing was a man busting out the back door to run south on Houston before he went on to Pacific and away.
DPD Officer Barnett ran after the 3rd shot from the curb of Elm and Houston north on Houston to 20' past the TSBD. There he observed "officers down here watching the this back door, I returned back around to the front...". All in 2 1/2, "maybe" three minutes, in his estimate.
James Romack, after seeing Barnett run towards him from 175 - 125 yards away, then watching him and the back door of the TSBD from 75 yards away he told Belin of the Warren Commission, "There was two other gentlemen (in suits?) which I never said anything about, that taken over. They were FBI or Something standing right here at the very entrance, and just stood there." Belin: Your pointing again to the back stairway that leads up from the street to the dock on the north side of the building? Romack: Right. B - See anyone else? R - No sir, other than all the motorcycle officers and squad cars. They started coming in, I would say, in 4 minutes From The Time This Happened.
Romack moved a construction barricade to let in KBOX radio reporter Sam Pate's mobile unit. Pate told the FBI in March 1964: Mr. Pate estimated that within approximately four minutes after he first heard of a shooting he was at the rear of the TSBD. He stated there were policemen entering the rear door of the TSBD.
DPD Sargent D.V. Harkness after going south on Main to check the Industrial area for anyone escaping, from his first impression returned to the grassy knoll area where he encountered Amos Eunis, made notes, then broadcast information on Channel 2 to headquarters and other officers about a shooter in the TSBD at 12:36 per the record. He then dropped off Eunis at the front door area and proceeded to the back of the building. "Was there anyone there when you got there?" "There were some Secret Service agents, I didn't get them identified. They told me they were Secret Service". . . 7 or 8 minutes after 12:30?
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The testimony of James Elbert Romack was taken at 11:30 a.m., on April 8, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. David W. Belin, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.
Mr. BELIN. You want to stand and raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. ROMACK. I do.
Mr. BELIN. My name is David Belin. I am actually a practicing attorney from Des Moines, Iowa. I have been with the President's Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy for several months here, and we asked you to come down to have your deposition taken.
Mr. BELIN. Would you please state your name for the record?
Mr. ROMACK. James Elbert Romack.
Mr. BELIN. R-o-m-a-c-k?
Mr. ROMACK. Right.
Mr. BELIN. Where do you live, Mr. Romack?
Mr. ROMACK. 10825 Benbrook Drive, Dallas, Tex.
Mr. BELIN. How old a man are you?
Mr. ROMACK. I am 39 years of age.
Mr. BELIN. Were you born in Texas?
Mr. ROMACK. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Go to school here?
Mr. ROMACK. I went to school in Texas, yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. How far did you get through school?
Mr. ROMACK. I got a couple of years of college.
Mr. BELIN. A couple of years Of college?
Mr. ROMACK. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. What college?
Mr. ROMACK. East Texas State Teachers College and Technological College.
Mr. BELIN. Did you go to college right after high school?
Mr. ROMACK. It was right after the war.
Mr. BELIN. You went right after the war?
Mr. ROMACK. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Did you go---
Mr. ROMACK. I take it back, I was going to Tech when the war broke out, and went to East Texas State after the war.
Mr. BELIN. When the war broke out, what did you do?
Mr. ROMACK. I went into the Navy.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do in the Navy?
Mr. ROMACK. I was in the Amphibious, on the Aleutian Islands, and took boot training in San Diego. I went to the Aleutian Islands and came back and went to Pearl Harbor and stayed out there for 9 months, and boarded an LST and went through the Campaigns of the Philippines and Okinawa and Japan and then returned back home.
Mr. BELIN. When did you get back to the States?
Mr. ROMACK. March 1946.
Mr. BELIN. I was stationed in Japan right after the last war. Where were you stationed?
Mr. ROMACK. I was on this LST in Pearl Harbor.
Mr. BELIN. Were you in Japan after the war?
Mr. ROMACK. Yes, I was there during the time the Treaty was signed. We were in the, I forget the name, we were riding typhoons. We rode out eight of them, and our ship came back without the two side doors. All we had was the big ramp.
Mr. BELIN. That must have been quite a voyage back?
Mr. ROMACK. They were taking water in the port and bailing it over in the back.
Mr. BELIN. When you got back to the States, what did you do?
Mr. ROMACK. Went to St. Louis and bought me an automobile, and just I was a boy. I was the boy about 6 months, I would say.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?
Mr. ROMACK. Then I entered school, East Texas State Teachers College.
Mr. BELIN. You went there about a year?
Mr. ROMACK. Approximately a year, I would say, yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do after that?
Mr. ROMACK. I got married once along the route, and I was married about 30 days. Then I came to Dallas in 1947. I guess it was 1947, or 1948, I forget just when I did come to Dallas. It was along in there.
Mr. BELIN. And you have been in Dallas ever since?
Mr. ROMACK. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. By the way, were you honorably discharged?
Mr. ROMACK. Yes; I surely was.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do when you got to Dallas?
Mr. ROMACK. I went to work with a motor freight carrier. They are known as ICX today. They were Miller & Miller Motor Freight at the time.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do for them?
Mr. ROMACK. Drove a truck.
Mr. BELIN. How long did you do that?
Mr. ROMACK. Approximately a year.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?
Mr. ROMACK. Went back to East Texas, and my home, and piddled around for a short while. Then I came back to Dallas. And what did I do along in there? In 1949, I went to work for the Cotton Belt Railroad.
Mr. BELIN. How long did you stay with them ?
Mr. ROMACK. Until April, I believe, of 1955. I know it was in 1955.
Mr. BELIN. What did you generally do when you were with the Cotton Belt?
Mr. ROMACK. I did all the railroad work during that time. I mean, I have been a billing clerk, and I have been a foreman, and I have been checker, and assistant foreman, warehouse foreman, and I worked out in the yards, and did quite a few jobs.
Mr. BELIN. You left them in 1955, and then what did you do?
Mr. ROMACK. Went to work with--a friend wanted me to go to work with him in a service station, Conoco Service Station.
Mr. BELIN. How long did you stay there?
Mr. ROMACK. Stayed there a year, approximately.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?
Mr. ROMACK. Then I went to work with Strickland Transportation Co. as a dock foreman.
Mr. BELIN. How long were you with them?
Mr. ROMACK. Oh, I would say 6 or 7 months.
Mr. BELIN. Then what?
Mr. ROMACK. Then I went to work with an air freight concern out here at Love Field Drive, driving a truck, delivering air freight and picking up air freight for, I would say, 7 or 8 months there, maybe.
Mr. BELIN. Then what?
Mr. ROMACK. Then I hired out with the Coordinating Transportation Co.
Mr. BELIN. Coordinated Transportation Co.?
Mr. ROMACK. Right, which that is where I am at today.
Mr. BELIN. What have you been doing for them?
Mr. ROMACK. Driving mostly your big van trailer-truck and bobtail trucks and pickup and delivery service.
Mr. BELIN. Where were you around the noon hour of November 22, 1963?
Mr. ROMACK. I was on lunch period, Just piddling around out north by east, I would say, from the Texas School Book Depository Building.
Mr. BELIN. You were standing around Houston Street?
Mr. ROMACK. It would be just about where Houston would intersect, but the street was under construction at the time. They didn't have it, which they still don't have it opened up for through traffic.
Mr. BELIN. Were you standing with anyone?
Mr. ROMACK. Well, Lee and Mr. Rackley, we walked out there together originally to start with. We were kind of piddling around, and I kind of walked off ahead of him.
Mr. BELIN. Was that George W. Rackley you were referring to?
Mr. ROMACK. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Is he also known as "Pop" Rackley?
Mr. ROMACK. Right.
Mr. BELIN. You said you started walking away. Where did you walk?
Mr. ROMACK..Toward the School Book Depository Building.
Mr. BELIN. Along what street did you walk?
Mr. ROMACK. Well, it wouldn't be no street at the time.
Mr. BELIN. Well, if there would be a street?
Mr. ROMACK. I guess it would be just about, I don't know whether they are going to split Ross and Houston Street up.
Mr. BELIN. Would you be looking straight at Houston Street?
Mr. ROMACK. More or less. I would be looking at Houston Street; yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. All right, and what happened as you were walking?
Mr. ROMACK. I heard these three rifle shots sound out.
Mr. BELIN. Did you know they were rifle shots?
Mr. ROMACK. Yes, sir; I did. I go elk hunting in Colorado every year in October, and I just came back from this trip, and I am pretty familiar with a rifle shot.
Mr. BELIN. How many did you hear?
Mr. ROMACK. Three.
Mr. BELIN. Where did they sound like they came from?
Mr. ROMACK. It sounded, I guess, like it came from that building, but it wasn't on my side of the building.
Mr. BELIN. Did it sound like it was up high or low?
Mr. ROMACK. I would say they were high. I have never been asked that question, but it did sound like they were running out high, I would say, and the wind was blowing a little bit from the south that day, I can remember.
Mr. BELIN. The wind was blowing into your face as you walked, or was it blowing from your back, sir?
Mr. ROMACK. It was blowing into my face.
Mr. BELIN. Into your face.
How far were you from the School Book Depository Building when you heard the shots?
Mr. ROMACK. Oh, I probably was 125 yards. 100 to 125 yards, 1 would say.
Mr. BELIN. Would that be from the nearest corner of the building or from the front of Elm Street?
Mr. ROMACK. From the nearest corner of the building.
Mr. BELIN. From the northeast corner of the building?
Mr. ROMACK. Right.
Mr. BELIN. How close did the shots sound like they came together?
Mr. ROMACK. Oh, they happened pretty fast. I would say maybe 3 or 4 seconds apart.
Mr. BELIN. Were they equally spaced, or did one sound like it was closer than another one in time?
Mr. ROMACK. It sounded like to me that they were evenly spaced. They rang out pretty fast.
Mr. BELIN. Have you ever operated a bolt action rifle?
Mr. ROMACK. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Do you own one?
Mr. ROMACK. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did it sound like the shots were faster than it could be operated with a bolt action rifle?
Mr. ROMACK. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. What kind of rifle do you have now, by the way?
Mr. ROMACK. I have a---it is a---I can't answer that really.
Mr. BELIN. What caliber?
Mr. ROMACK. It is a 30-06.
Mr. BELIN. 30-06 rifle?
Mr. ROMACK. Yes, it is. And it is an old World War I mechanism. It is either an Enfield or a Springfield.
Mr. BELIN. Bolt action?
Mr. ROMACK. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. You heard those rifle shots, and you think you could shoot your rifle accurately as fast as you heard those shots?
Mr. ROMACK. I don't, wouldn't think that I would be that good a shot; no, sir; because I shot at an elk four times and I hit him everywhere and missed him one time out of four.
Mr. BELIN. How far was it?
Mr. ROMACK. He was, I would say, 350 to 500 yards away. He was quite a distance.
Mr. BELIN. Maybe I should have asked the question this way. Suppose he was 100 yards away or else 50 yards?
Mr. ROMACK. I would be more accurate with my shooting, I sure would.
Mr. BELIN. If he were, say, from 40 to 75 yards away, or not an elk, a person, do you think you could shoot 40 to 75 yards away accurately as quickly as you heard those rifle sounds?
Mr. ROMACK. I wouldn't say I could; no, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Do you think an accurate rifleman could?
Mr. ROMACK. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Well, you heard the shots, and then what did you do?
Mr. ROMACK. Well, I knew something was wrong. I mean, I could sense that with in my own self.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Mr. ROMACK. And I looked up and I felt kind of chilly looking down towards the which I am facing the Houston entrance, and I looked down toward where all the people were standing along, the motorcade was passing by, and just immediately after I heard the shots, I saw a policeman running north towards me. He was running to look to see if somebody was running out of the back of this building.
Mr. BELIN. What building?
Mr. ROMACK. Texas School Book Depository Building. And he didn't stay but just, oh, he was just there to check and he runs back.
Well, sensing that something is wrong, I automatically take over watching the building for the man.
Mr. BELIN. What part of the building were you watching?
Mr. ROMACK. The back
Mr. BELIN. Could you see that back dock in the back part?
Mr. ROMACK. Well, I mean, they got it sealed off. I could see as much as anyone could see.
Mr. BELIN. Could you see---there are some stairs that go up to the back dock, aren't there?
Mr. ROMACK. Right here.
Mr. BELIN. You are pointing to a first floor plan of the Texas School Book Depository?
Mr. ROMACK. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Did you watch those stairs?
Mr. ROMACK. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. How long did you watch them after you saw the policeman leave?
Mr. ROMACK. Well, I watched them all the time until someone arrived, and the only time I did take my back off, turn my back to the building was Sam Pate with his KBOX news, he arrived before any of the police or anyone.
Mr. BELIN. Is that KBOX
Mr. ROMACK. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Is that a radio or television station?
Mr. ROMACK. It is a radio station.
Mr. BELIN. How long did you take your eyes off then?
Mr. ROMACK. He was driving up and they were having a little high---the city has ,a piece of wood that they use to stop traffic coming through, and I'd taken that so he could come through, drive his truck.
Mr. BELIN. How long did you leave your post?
Mr. ROMACK. I didn't leave. That was right there, even closer than what we were. But all I did was let that down for him, and then we
Mr. BELIN. Would that have taken less than a minute?
Mr. ROMACK. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Less than 30 seconds, do you know?
Mr. ROMACK. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. How long did you stay after that watching that back door?
Mr. ROMACK. Well, we were all there watching it then.
Mr. BELIN. How long a period of time?
Mr. ROMACK. Pardon?
Mr. BELIN. Did you see a policeman go up there?
Mr. ROMACK. I saw policemen up in there. I didn't see anyone come up the back. They came in the front, all---most of them.
Mr. BELIN. Did you see any employees walk up the back way?
Mr. ROMACK. There was two other gentlemen which I never said anything about, that taken over. They were FBI or something standing right here at the very entrance, and just stood there.
Mr. BELIN. You are pointing again to the back stairway that leads up from the street to the dock on the north side of the building?
Mr. ROMACK. Right.
Mr. BELIN. See anyone else?
Mr. ROMACK. No, sir; other than all the motorcycle officers and squad cars. They started coming in, I would say, in 4 minutes from the time that this happened. They were swarming the building, which naturally. I quit watching anything particular.
Mr. BELIN. In other words, about 4 minutes after the shots came you quit watching it? Would that be accurate, or not?
Mr. ROMACK. Well, I would say somewhere in the neighborhood of 5 minutes, 4 or 5 minutes. That would probably be true. I stayed there, but I wasn't particularly watching.
Mr. BELIN. In other words, then as I understand your testimony, you said that from about the time of the shots until about 5 minutes after the shots, you watched the back door of the building?
Mr. ROMACK. Right.
Mr. BELIN. What is the fact as to whether or not you saw anyone leave the building?
Mr. ROMACK. They wasn't anyone left the building.
Mr. BELIN. What is the fact as to whether or not you saw anyone enter the building other than a police officer?
Mr. ROMACK. No one entered while I was standing there.
Mr. BELIN. Did you see anybody running down the street near you at all?
Mr. ROMACK. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Where were you standing? How far were you from this stairway going to this Houston Street dock?
Mr. ROMACK. Well, after this KBOX---you are asking prior to before he got there?
Mr. BELIN. Before KBOX got there first?
Mr. ROMACK. I would say I moved between 75 yards.
Mr. BELIN. 75 yards of the northeast corner of the building?
Mr. ROMACK. 75 yards of the northeast corner of the building.
Mr. BELIN. After KBOX got there?
Mr. ROMACK. He got to about, I would say, maybe 35 yards to the building, or 40. That is where he parked his car.
Mr. BELIN. How long did he stay, KBOX?
Mr. ROMACK. Oh, I would say 35 or 40 minutes. Then I went and called my wife and was telling her the sad news, and then I went back and stayed again. I ended up laying off work. I didn't even work that afternoon.
Mr. BELIN. Did you ever contact the FBI?
Mr. ROMACK. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. When did you do that?
Mr. ROMACK. It was on a SaPersonay night after I got in from work.
Mr. BELIN. What month was it?
Mr. ROMACK. It was this past month.
Mr. BELIN. You mean March?
Mr. ROMACK. Right.
Mr. BELIN. What caused you to contact the FBI in March?
Mr. ROMACK. I was trying to pinpoint the day that I must have come in from It was on the weekend that I'd come home, and there was a paper up left-hand corner.
Mr. BELIN. You mean the newspaper?
Mr. ROMACK. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Dallas newspaper?
Mr. ROMACK. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Which one, do you know, offhand?
Mr. ROMACK. Herald, the paper that I take.
Mr. BELIN. What did you see in the paper?
Mr. ROMACK. I saw an article that was written by a guy, which I have been concerned about this thing all the way through, the assassination, and I got to reading it, and it is a story that just don't jibe with about me sitting there and watching the building. It just kind of upset me to know there is some monkey just hatched up such a story.
Mr. BELIN. What is the story that you read that you got concerned about?
Mr. ROMACK. About a guy seeing a rifle drawn in from the building above him, and he also seen the people as the shots were being fired, and he also seen some character running toward me with an overcoat on which was brown or gray or blue, and he heard 4 shots.
Mr. BELIN. Let me ask you this. Do you remember what page of the paper this was on?
Mr. ROMACK. It was on the headlines. I don't mean the headlines. It was on the front page in the left corner of the page.
Mr. BELIN. Now you say something concerned you about the article. Was it the fact that he said he saw a rifle there that concerned you?
Mr. ROMACK. No, sir; the fact that he was running somebody over me, and that is what I was out there doing. That is what I was doing. I was watching.
Mr. BELIN. You mean the portion of the article that concerned you was that someone said that someone else was running?
Mr. ROMACK. Towards Pacific Street.
Mr. BELIN. Towards Pacific Street from the direction of the School Book Depository?
Mr. ROMACK. That is the way the article read, sir.
Mr. BELIN. What did you tell the FBI when you called them?
Mr. ROMACK. I told them, tried to tell them about the same thing that I am telling you right now today.
Mr. BELIN. Have I ever mentioned before, by the way, or talked to you before this morning?
Mr. ROMACK. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. What is the fact as to whether or not as soon as we met, you came in here and we started taking your deposition immediately?
Mr. ROMACK. Right. Unless you called me last SaPersonay. I don't remember who called me.
Mr. BELIN. Well, on SaPersonay, what did someone do, call you and tell you to come down here?
Mr. ROMACK. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did that person talk to .you about the facts that we were talking about now?
Mr. ROMACK. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. It wasn't I, just for the record. I believe it was the Secret Service that called you, but I am not sure.
Mr. ROMACK. It was.
Mr. BELIN. Now, I understand your testimony correctly, what you are stating is that you don't believe anyone ran out of the building towards you, at least within the first 5 minutes after the shots?
Mr. ROMACK. Right.
Mr. BELIN. You don't think anyone went out of the building during the first 5 minutes after the shots?
Mr. ROMACK. That is true.
Mr. BELIN. Is there anything else, any other information you have that you feel might be helpful to the investigation of the assassination?
Mr. ROMACK. I can't think of anything, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Well, we want to thank you very much for taking the time to come down here. We appreciate your cooperation, and certainly your cooperation particularly in volunteering to call the FBI to contact them for this information.
Mr. ROMACK. Well, I felt that---I called an attorney that I know and talked to him about the deal before I called the FBI, and I told him I wasn't doing this for a publicity thing. It was something I just didn't, after reading that article, it kind of upset me, and he said he felt it was my duty to call the FBI and let them know.
And that is when I went ahead and made my statement.
Mr. BELIN. Now, Mr. Romack, you have the right, if you want, to come back down here after these notes of the court reporter are typed, to read the typewritten transcript and sign it, or you can waive reading it and signing it and just have her send it directly to Washington, whatever you want to do. It makes no difference with us.
Mr. ROMACK. I will waive.
Mr. BELIN. You want to waive it then?
Mr. . ROMACK. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Again we want to thank you very much.
Mr. ROMACK. You are quite welcome.
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The Houston St loading dock.
The Domino Room window looks north into the dock (Oswald left his jacket on the window sill).
The Houston Dock has a railway door, a wooden double door for access to a carriage on the rails (this door was not guarded after the shots).
The railway door could not be seen by Officer Barnett when he was guarding the dock (unless the 2 big roller doors were open, &/or if the pedestrian door at the angled steps was open).
But that escapee would be seen by Romack & Rackley, unless there was a carriage sitting there blocking their view (i think there was)(plus other carriages on other tracks).
If there was a carriage sitting there then our escapee would be seen by Romack (& possibly by Barnett) if the escapee walked east towards Romack rather than west.
But an escapee escaping via the railway door would naturally go west, at least initially, in which case Romack might espy his legs under the carriage.
There are also 2 big roller doors into the enclosed area of the dock from the first floor (not important).
And there is a pedestrian door into the enclosed area from the first floor (this was used by Adams & Styles).
And Adams & Styles then exited via the pedestrian door leading to the angled steps.
A sneaky escapee could possibly exit via the window in the stairway corner (if it could open)(if u can reach it).
(https://i.postimg.cc/q78fT4qr/first-floor-of-tsbd-i-p148.jpg)
The Elm St loading dock.
It has 1 pedestrian door to the west, ie to get to the carport. There is a long ramp to that door (not shown here).
There is a big steel double gate to Elm St, which was fully open during the shooting, but was closed & guarded by police later.
But they didn't guard the pedestrian door to the parking shed (& Shelley & Lovelady entered the TSBD via the ramp & this door some minutes after the shots).
I suppose that an alert guard might have espied Shelley & Lovelady throo the open steelwork of the gate.
Shelly & Lovelady would have had to walk towards the gate to get to the stairs to the pedestrian door.
Or they could have entered via 1 of the 2 roller doors, if open.
An escapee could have exited via the pedestrian door & ramp, or the main gate, or if sneaky the window next to the rails (if it opened).
Hoffman, on the Stemmons overpass, 330 yd away, might have possibly espied an escapee or 2 using the door or window (he initially said that he saw 2 men leave the rear of the TSBD & run north along the railway).
Or Hoffman might have possibly espied an escapee or 2 using the stairway window, or the railway door at the Houston dock.
(https://i.postimg.cc/RZSGFmg9/first-floor-plan-Screen-Shot-2017-10-14-at-1-34-18-AM.png)
Here we can see the stairway window that i mentioned above.
And we see the window to the Elm St dock, & the door & ramp to the parking shed.
Not forgetting that an escapee could exit any of the 3 second floor windows onto the roof of the Elm St dock.
(https://i.postimg.cc/3JDLy75D/tsbd-Elm-St-loading-dock-carport.png)
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Houston St loading dock.
(https://i.postimg.cc/FH97Rc0z/tsbd-rear.jpg)
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Romack & Rackley earlier.
From a screenprint of a youtube.
If u see a 3rd person there then that will be Lee, a workmate of Romack, Lee was with Romack & Rackley for a while.
(https://i.postimg.cc/X7qTkdpZ/hughes-screenprint-1-Copy-2.jpg)
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This screenprint of the enhanced Hughes footage is less blurry than the Robin Unger Gallery frame.
But i dont think i will bother doing new giffs with the enhanced frames.
(https://i.postimg.cc/9MNSW-H3m/screenprint-of-enhanced-hughes.jpg)
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Within say 3 minutes after the shots Officer Barnett ran 20 ft past the TSBD so that he could watch the north side of the TSBD & the fire escape.
Within 2 minutes after the shots (actually probly 80 sec) Victoria Adams & Sandra Styles exited the TSBD via the Houston loading dock & went southwest towards the picket fence railyard to see what had happened. When they got near the railyard they were sent back by an Officer. Barnett didnt see Adams & Styles exit the loading dock koz he arrived after. Styles said that they went to the elevator before going to the back stairs, but i have not shown that detour to the elevator in my drawing.
Romack was probly only about 30 yd from Barnett, & he mentioned seeing Barnett, but Romack didnt ever mention Adams & Styles.
Rackley was say 100 yd away, & he never mentioned Adams & Styles, nor Barnett, nor Worrell (or some guy). However he stood there for only 5 or 10 minutes, hence he might have left before Worrell (or some guy) did a runner.
Lee, a workmate of Romack, was standing with Rackley for a while, but we dont know what Lee saw or didn't saw.
Adams & Styles, who had been looking out of a 4th floor window, with Elsie Dorman & Dorothy Garner, ran down the TSBD stairway about 10 sec after Oswald, & they exited the first floor into the Houston loading dock at 80 sec at about the same time as Baker & Truly entered via the front Elm St door. Garner (who was by then watching the bedlam in the railyard carpark by looking out of a western window near the stairs) saw Baker & Truly go up the stairs past after Adams & Styles had already gone down the stairs.
Adams & Styles said that they did not hear Oswald coming down the stairs behind them. CTers use that to claim that Oswald had not come down the stairs at all, but they are wrong, Oswald came down the stairs 10 sec ahead of Adams & Styles. When Oswald got to the 2nd floor he heard Adams & Styles klopping down the stairs & he ducked into the lunch room. After they had passed Oswald heard Baker & Truly galloping up the stairs (or he heard Truly yelling up the elevator shaft) & he ducked into the lunchroom for a second time. Later he got a coke & walked throo the 2nd floor office of Jeraldean Reid (instead of using the corridor) & he went down the front stairs & exited the front doors.
Oswald left his jacket in the Domino Room on the first floor. Praps he forgot, or more likely he didn't want to walk throo police on the first floor to get to the Domino Room which was adjacent to the Houston loading dock, the jacket was on the window sill. Oswald walked north up Houston to get his jacket, did a U-turn when he saw Officer Barnett, & walked south down Houston (Buell Frazier saw him), after which Oswald crossed Houston & then Elm.
Hoffman, 382 yd away (from Barnett), on the Stemmons overpass, said he saw 2 men running out of the rear of the TSBD & up along the railway & then east, but he didn't mention Adams & Styles.
What he called the rear might have been the angled western side TSBD extension where there was a loading dock & carport & 2 pedestrian doors.
Romack & Rackley might not have seen the 2 doors if there was a carriage parked next to the TSBD (ie as in this pix), but they would have seen the 2 men when they were running along the railway, depending on how many carriages were parked in the railyard.
And Adams & Styles would have seen the 2 men, & they might even have had to get out of their way.
Adams & Styles would have been 320 yd from Hoffman as they walked along the angled 70 yd length of the 2 loading docks (& carport), yet Hoffman didn't mention seeing Adams & Styles.
At a later date Hoffman changed his story (re the 2 men), he now claimed that he saw a shooter & accomplice at the picket fence near the triple underpass.
In one version one of the guys runs north along a railway, in another version both guys run along the railway.
Romack & Rackley would have been able to see much of that, depending on how many carriages were parked in the railyard.
Sam Pate & Josh Dowdell jnr arrived via roadworks in a radio car 4 minutes after the shots. Romack moved a barricade to let Pate drive to near the TSBD.
They parked there untill Tippit was shot. About 5 or 10 minutes after they got there Pate saw a young guy, possibly James Richard Worrell, run along the TSBD & then cross Houston & then go east along the railway (but Dowdell did not recall that). And Romack too did not recall seeing Worrell (or some guy). Romack watched closely for only about another 4 minutes after Pate got there. Romack stayed in that area until Pate left, but he did not bother to watch closely after lots of police moved in, so praps he missed seeing Worrell (or some guy). Romack seems to have missed seeing Adams & Styles too. Rackley might have exited the truck yard before Worrell (or some guy) did his runner (he stood in the truck yard for only 5 to 10 minutes).
(https://i.postimg.cc/6QsPZSYt/romack-barnett-adams-styles-worrel-pate-osw-ald.jpg)
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The testimony of Miss Victoria Elizabeth ADAMS was taken at 2:15 p.m., on April 7, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. David W. BELIN, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.
Mr. BELIN - Do you want to stand and raise your right hand, please. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give before the President's Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy shah be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Miss ADAMS - I do.
Mr. BELIN - All right. Would you please state your name?
Miss ADAMS - Victoria Elizabeth ADAMS.
Mr. BELIN - Are you known as Vickie ADAMS?
Miss ADAMS - That's correct.
Mr. BELIN - Where do you live?
Miss ADAMS - 4906 Wenonah, Dallas, Tex.
Mr. BELIN - What is your occupation?
Miss ADAMS - I am employed as an office survey representative.
Mr. BELIN - By whom?
Miss ADAMS - Scott Foresman Co.
Mr. BELIN - Where do you work?
Miss ADAMS - On the fourth floor of the Texas School Book Depository.
Mr. BELIN - Where?
Miss ADAMS - 411 Elm.
Mr. BELIN - That is at the corner of Elm and Houston?
Miss ADAMS - That is correct.
Mr. BELIN - I might ask how old are you?
Miss ADAMS - Twenty-three.
Mr. BELIN - Where were you born originally? In Texas?
Miss ADAMS - San Francisco, Calif.
Mr. BELIN - Did you go to school in San Francisco?
Miss ADAMS - I attended part of my grammar school and high school in San Francisco.
Mr. BELIN - Were you graduated from high school?
Miss ADAMS - In San Francisco, that's correct.
Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?
Miss ADAMS - Following that I entered the Ursaline Order in St. Mary's, Ohio, and I left there as a novice in 1961.
Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do from there?
Miss ADAMS - I went to Atlanta, Ga. and taught school at the Immaculate Heart of Mary School. And following that I came to Dallas and was employed by the Holiday Inn Central during the summer months, and I obtained a teaching position at St. Monica's School here.
Mr. BELIN - And you taught at St. Monica for some period of time?
Miss ADAMS - Yes; for 1 year.
Mr. BELIN - Then you went to work for Scott Foresman?
Miss ADAMS - I went to work for Scott Foresman.
Mr. BELIN - Were you at work on November 22, 1963?
Miss ADAMS - That's correct.
Mr. BELIN - Were you aware of the fact that the President's motorcade was going to go right by your building?
Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - How did you learn of this information?
Miss ADAMS - Through newspaper media and also conversation.
Mr. BELIN - Do you remember when you first read about it in the papers?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir; I don't.
Mr. BELIN - Would it have been before November 22d?
Miss ADAMS - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - Where were you when the motorcade passed?
Miss ADAMS - I was at the----
Mr. BELIN - Were you inside or outside the building?
Miss ADAMS - I was inside the building.
Mr. BELIN - What floor?
Miss ADAMS - Fourth floor.
Mr. BELIN - Did you watch the motorcade through a window?
Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Sometimes that is kind of complicated to try and pick out which window if you are counting from the right or left, so I am going to count from the east side of the building to the west side of the building. Now the windows are separate windows, but they are kind of in pairs, so to speak. Were you standing on the first pair of windows, either-one of those two windows?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Counting from the east side, were you standing in the second pair of windows?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - From the east side, were you standing in the third pair, of either of those windows?
Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Now, of that third pair, from the east side, would it have been the east window or the west window?
Miss ADAMS - The west window.
Mr. BELIN - So another way, if you don't count in pairs, but count in single units from the east side, you would have been in the sixth window from your left as you were facing out the window, is that correct?
Miss ADAMS - That's right.
Mr. BELIN - Were you standing with anyone
Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - With whom?
Miss ADAMS - I was standing with Sandra Styles, Elsie Dorman, and Dorothy May Garner.
Mr. BELIN - Will you state what you saw, what you did, and what you heard?
Miss ADAMS - I watched the motorcade come down Main, as it turned from Main onto Houston, and watched it proceed around the corner on Elm, and apparently somebody in the crowd called to the late President, because he and his wife both turned abruptly and faced the building, so we had a very good view of both of them.
Mr. BELIN - Where was their car as you got .this good view, had it come directly opposite your window? Had it come to that point on Elm, or not, if you can remember
Miss ADAMS - I believe it was prior, just a second or so prior to that.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Miss ADAMS - And from our vantage point we were able to see what the President's wife was wearing, the roses in the car, and things that would attract men's attention. Then we heard---then we were obstructed from the view.
Mr. BELIN - By what?
Miss ADAMS - A tree. and we heard a shot, and it was a pause, and then a second shot, and then a third shot.
It sounded like a firecracker or a cannon at a football game, it seemed as if it came from the right below rather than from the left above. Possibly because of the report. And after the third shot, following that, the third shot, I went to the back of the building down the back stairs, and encountered Bill Shelley and Bill Lovelady on the first floor on the way out to the Houston Street dock.
Mr. BELIN - When you say on the way out to the Houston Street dock, you mean now you were on the way out?
Miss ADAMS - While I was on the way out.
Mr. BELIN - Was anyone going along with you?
Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir; Sandra Styles.
That WCR wordage about seeing Shelley & Lovelady was inserted by the WCR, or they forced Adams to say it.
Styles denied ever seeing Shelley & Lovelady whilst leaving the TSBD.
And decades later Adams admitted she had not seen Shelley nor Lovelady.
Mr. BELIN - Sometime after the third shot, and I don't want to get into the actual period of time yet, you went back into the stockroom which would be to the north of where your offices are located on the fourth floor, is that correct?
Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir; that's correct.
Mr. BELIN - When you got into the stockroom, where did you go?
Miss ADAMS - I went to the back stairs.
Mr. BELIN - Are there any other stairs that lead down from the fourth floor other than those back stairs in the rear of the stockroom?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Those stairs would be in the northwest comer of the building, is that correct?
Miss ADAMS - That's correct.
Mr. BELIN - You took those stairs. Were you walking or running as you went down the stairs?
Miss ADAMS - I was running. We were running.
Mr. BELIN - What kind of shoes did you have on?
Miss ADAMS - Three-inch heels.
Mr. BELIN - You had heels. Now, as you were running down the stairs, did you encounter anyone?
Miss ADAMS - Not during the actual running down the stairs; no, sir.
Mr. BELIN - After you left the Scott Foresman office and went into the stock-room, did you see anyone until you got to the stairs on the fourth floor other than the person you were with?
Miss ADAMS - Outside of our office employees; no.
Mr. BELIN - Would these office employees that you might have seen, all be women?
Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Then you got to the stairs and you started going down the stairs. You went from the fourth floor to the third floor?
Miss ADAMS - That's correct?
Mr. BELIN - Anyone on the stairs then?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Let me ask you this. As you got to the stairs on the fourth floor, did you notice whether or not the elevator was running?
Miss ADAMS - The elevator was not moving.
Mr. BELIN - How do you know it was not moving on some other floor?
Miss ADAMS - Because the cables move when the elevator is moved, and this is evidenced because of a wooden grate.
Mr. BELIN - By that you mean a wooden door with slats in it that you have to lift up to get on the elevator?
Miss ADAMS - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - Did you look to see if the elevator was moving?
Miss ADAMS - It was not; no, sir.
Mr. BELIN - It was not moving?
Miss ADAMS - No.
Mr. BELIN - Did you happen to see where the elevator might have been located?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - As you got to the third floor, did you take a look at the elevator again at all, or not, if you remember?
Miss ADAMS - I can't recall.
Mr. BELIN - As you got off the stairs on the third floor, did you see anyone on the third floor?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Then you immediately went to the stairs going down from the third to the second?
Miss ADAMS - That's correct.
Mr. BELIN - As you ran down the stairs, did you see anyone on the stairs?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - All right. You got down to the second floor. Did you see anyone by the second floor?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Did you immediately turn and run and keep on running down the stairs towards the first floor?
Miss ADAMS - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - When you got to the bottom of the first floor, did you see anyone there as you entered the first floor from the stairway?
Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Who did you see?
Miss ADAMS - Mr. Bill Shelley and Billy Lovelady.
Mr. BELIN - Where did you see them on the first floor?
Miss ADAMS - Well, this is the stairs, and this is the Houston Street dock that I went out. They were approximately in this position here, so I don't know how you would describe that.
Mr. BELIN - You are looking now at a first floor plan or diagram of the Texas School Book Depository, and you have pointed to a position where you encountered Bill Lovelady and Mr. Bill Shelley?
Miss ADAMS - That's correct.
Mr. BELIN - It would be slightly east of the front of the east elevator, and probably as far south as the length of the elevator, is that correct?
Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - I have a document here called Commission's Exhibit No. 496, which includes a diagram of the first floor, and there is a No. 7 and a circle on it, and I have pointed to a place marked No. 7 on the diagram. Is that correct?
Miss ADAMS - That is approximate.
Mr. BELIN - Between the time you got off the stairs and the time you got to this point when you say you encountered them, which was somewhat to the south and a little bit east of the front of the east elevator, did you see any other employees there?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Any other people prior to the time you saw them?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Now when you were running down the stairs on your trip down the stairs, did you hear anyone using the Stairs?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Did you hear anyone calling for an elevator?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Did you see the foreman, Roy Truly? Did you see the superintendent of the warehouse, Roy S. Truly?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir; I did not.
Mr. BELIN - What about any motorcycle police officers?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Now what did you do after you encountered Mr. Shelley and Mr. Lovelady?
Miss ADAMS - I said I believed the President was shot.
Mr. BELIN - Do you remember what they said?
Miss ADAMS - Nothing.
Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?
Miss ADAMS - I proceeded out to the Houston Street dock.
Mr. BELIN - That would be on this same diagram? It is marked Houston Street dock, and you went through what would be the north door, which is towards the rear of the first floor, is that correct?
And down some stairs towards the rear of the dock?
Miss ADAMS - That's correct.
Mr. BELIN - Where did you go from there?
Miss ADAMS - I proceeded--which way is east and west?
Mr. BELIN - East is here. East is towards Houston, and west is towards the railroad tracks. You went east or west? Towards the railroad tracks or towards Houston Street?
Miss ADAMS - I went west towards the tracks.
Mr. BELIN - How far west did you go?
Miss ADAMS - I went approximately 2 yards within the tracks and there was an officer standing there, and he said, "Get back to the building." And I said, "But I work here."
And he said, "That is tough, get back." I said, "Well, was the President shot?" And he said, "I don't know. Go back." And I said, "All right."
Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?
Miss ADAMS - I went back, only I went southwest.
Mr. BELIN - Well, did you come back by way of the street, or did you come back the same entrance you went out?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - You went back in through the front entrance, through the front of the building?
Miss ADAMS - Well, I didn't go back in right away.
Mr. BELIN - What did you do then? There is a street that would be a continuation of Elm Street that goes in front of the building, and Elm Street itself angles into the freeway. Did you go back either of those streets?
Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir. I went by the one directly in front of the building.
Mr. BELIN - What did you do when you got there?
Miss ADAMS - When I got there, I happened to look around and noticed several of the employees, and I noticed Joe Molina, for one, was standing in front of the building, and also Avery Davis, who works with me, and I said, "What do you think has happened?"
And she said, "I don't know."
And I said, "I want to find out." I think the President is shot.
There was a motorcycle that was parked on the corner of Houston and Elm directly in front of the east end of the building, and I paused-there to listen to the report on the police radio, and they said that shots had been fired which apparently came either from the second floor or the fourth floor window, and so I panicked, as I was at the only open window on the fourth floor.
Mr. BELIN - Did they say second floor or second floor from the top?
Miss ADAMS - It said second floor. So then I decided maybe I had better go back into the building, and going up the stairs---
Mr. BELIN - Now at this time when you went back into the building, were there any policemen standing in front of the building keeping people out?
Miss ADAMS - There was an officer on the stairs itself, and he was prohibiting people from entering the building, that is correct. But I told him I worked there.
Mr. BELIN - Did he let you come back in?
Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do ?
Miss ADAMS - Following that, I pushed the button for the passenger elevator, but the power had been cut off on the elevator, so I took the stairs to the second floor.
Mr. BELIN - You then went all the way back to the northwest corner of the building and took the same set of stairs you had previously taken to come down, or did you take the stairs by the passenger elevator?
Miss ADAMS - By the passenger elevator.
Mr. BELIN - Do those stairs go above floor 2?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir; they didn't.
Mr. BELIN - What did you do when you got to the second floor?
Miss ADAMS - I went into the Texas School Book Depository office and just listened for a few minutes to the people that were congregating there, and decided there wasn't anything interesting going on, and went out and walked around the hall to the freight elevator meaning the one on the northwest corner.
Mr. BELIN - Would it have been the west or the east? The one nearest the stairs or the other one?
Miss ADAMS - Yes; the one nearest the stairs.
Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?
Miss ADAMS - I went into the elevator which was stopped on the second floor, with two men who were dressed in suit and hats, and I assumed they were plainclothesmen.
Mr. BELIN - What did you do then?
Miss ADAMS - I tried to get the elevator to go to the fourth floor, but it wasn't operating, so the gentlemen lifted the elevator gate and we went out and ran up the stairs to the fourth floor.
Mr. BELIN - Then you went back to the Scott Foresman Company offices?
Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Now trying to reconstruct your actions insofar as the time sequence, which we haven't done, what is your best estimate of the time between the time the shots were fired and the time you got back to the building? How much time elapsed? If you have any estimate. Maybe you don't have one.
Miss ADAMS - I would estimate not more than 5 minutes elapsed.
Mr. BELIN - Is there any particular reason why you make this estimation?
Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir; going down the stairs toward the back, I was running. I ran to the railroad tracks. I moved quickly to the front of the building, paused briefly to talk to someone, listened only to the report of the windows from which the shot supposedly was fired, and returned to the building.
Mr. BELIN - How long do you think it was between the time the shots were fired and the time you left the window to start toward the stairway?
Miss ADAMS - Between 15 and 30 seconds, estimated, approximately.
Mr. BELIN - How long do you think it was, or do you think it took you to get from the window to the top of the fourth floor stairs?
Miss ADAMS - I don't think I can answer that question accurately, because the time approximation, without a stopwatch, would be difficult.
Mr. BELIN - How long do you think it took you. to get from the window to the bottom of the stairs on the first floor?
Miss ADAMS - I would say no longer than a minute at the most.
Mr. BELIN - So you think that from the time you left the window on the fourth floor until the time you got to the stairs at the bottom of the first floor, was approximately 1 minute?
Miss ADAMS - Yes, approximately.
Mr. BELIN - As I understand your testimony previously, you saw neither Roy Truly nor any motorcycle police officer at any time?
Miss ADAMS - That's correct.
Mr. BELIN - You heard no one else running down the stairs?
Miss ADAMS - Correct.
Mr. BELIN - When you got to the first floor did you immediately proceed to this point where you say you encountered Mr. Shelley and Mr. Lovelady?
Well, you showed me on a diagram of the first floor that there was a place which was south and somewhat east of the front part of the east elevator that you encountered Truly and Lovelady?
Miss ADAMS - I saw them there.
Mr. BELIN - I mean; you saw them?
Miss ADAMS - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - Would that have been a matter of seconds after you got to the bottom of the first floor?
Miss ADAMS - Definitely.
Mr. BELIN - Less than 30 seconds?
Miss ADAMS - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - Do you know, or did you know Lee Harvey Oswald either by sight or by name?
Miss ADAMS - I didn't know Lee Harvey Oswald, per se. I didn't know his name. I recognized him after I saw him on television, as having been with some men, but I had no dealing with him.
Mr. BELIN - By that, you mean having been employed with some men by the Texas School Book Depository?
Miss ADAMS - That's correct.
Mr. BELIN - During the trip down the stairs on the way down did you ever encounter Lee Harvey Oswald?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Is there any other information that you can think of that might be relevant to anything, connected with the assassination?
Miss ADAMS - At the time I left the building on the Houston Street dock, there was an officer standing about 2 yards from the curb, and about from the curb across the street from the Texas School Depository, and about 4 yards from the corner of Houston and Elm, and when we were running out the dock, going around the building, the officer was standing there, and he didn't encounter us or ask us what we were doing or where we were going, and I don't know if that is pertinent.
Mr. BELIN - No one stopped you from getting out of the building when you left?
Miss ADAMS - That's correct.
Mr. BELIN - That is helpful information. Is there any other information you have that could be relevant?
Miss ADAMS - There was a man that was standing on the corner of Houston and Elm asking questions there. He was dressed in a suit and a hat, and when I encountered Avery Davis going down, we asked who he was, because he was questioning people as if he were a police officer, and we noticed him take a colored boy away on a motorcycle, and this man was asking questions very efficaciously, and we said, "I guess he is maybe a reporter," and later on on television, there was a man that looked very similar to him, and he was identified as Ruby.
And on questioning some police officer, they said they had witnesses to the fact that he was in the Dallas Morning News at the time. And I don't know whether that is relevant or what.
Mr. BELIN - That is all right, we want to get that information down. Was this before you got back in the front door of the building that you saw this?
Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir; while I was standing by the motorcycles.
Mr. BELIN - Is there anything else?
Miss ADAMS - That is all, I believe.
Mr. BELIN - Miss ADAMS, you have the opportunity if you would like, to read this deposition and sign it before it goes to Washington, or you can waive the signing of it and just let the court reporter send it directly to us. Do you have any preference?
Miss ADAMS - I think I will let you use your own discretion.
Mr. BELIN - It doesn't make any difference to us. If it doesn't make any difference, we can waive it and you won't have to make another trip down here.
Miss ADAMS - That is all right.
Mr. BELIN - We want to thank you for your, cooperation. We know that it has taken time on your part. Would you also thank your employer?
Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir.
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Ok, it looks like Adams & Styles didnt run into Officer Barnett, they ran into an Officer near the picket fence railyards, & they must have exited the TSBD before Officer Barnett arrived. Koz we have Adams' FBI statement that tells us that she & Styles had gone in the direction of the railroad, ie not the rails just next to to the Houston loading dock, but the railroad near the picket fence carpark. And, that explains why Adams & Styles had gone back to the TSBD via the front entrance, not via the way they came (ie not via the rear entrance at the Houston loading dock).
March 23 1964.
..After the third shot I observed the car carrying President Kennedy speed away Sandra Styles and i ran out of
the building via the stairs and went in the direction of the railroad where we had observed other people running.
We had not gone far when a Police Officer stopped us and instructed us to return to the building, which we did
Victoria Elizabeth Adams
.. to FBI.
And as i mentioned in my previous Reply above, the WCR wordage about Adams seeing
Shelley & Lovelady was inserted by the WCR, or they forced Adams to say it.
Styles denied ever seeing Shelley & Lovelady whilst leaving the TSBD.
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Here we can see the barricades on the new road works.
They dont appear severe enuff to block Pate's car at the north east end, nor at the south end.
Anyhow Romack says he had to move a barricade at the south end for Pate.
There was mention that Pate had to drive over rough ground. Nope.
(https://i.postimg.cc/3J5z0CyL/aerial-dealey-tsbd.jpg)
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A closer look.
Romack had a white shirt against a white background, makes it more difficult to see him.
(https://i.postimg.cc/j2DGV98T/Romack-Rackley-small-giff.gif)
Here is a (jumpy) close up of Romack walking right to left near the back of Queen Mary.
(https://i.postimg.cc/jq4nrNVH/romack-faster-ezgif-5-5718c092c2.gif)