JFK Assassination Forum
Off Topic => News - Off Topic - Weird & Wacky => Topic started by: Jon Banks on April 18, 2021, 07:19:02 PM
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To the surprise of no one who understood why the allegations were not credible, the Biden administration confirmed last week that the allegations of Russia paying bounties to the Taliban for attacks on US Troops, lacked corroboration.
U.S. Intel Walks Back Claim Russians Put Bounties on American Troops
https://www.thedailybeast.com/us-intel-walks-back-claim-russians-put-bounties-on-american-troops
There were signs from the start that the story might be based on unvetted and uncorroborated intelligence but the Media and Democrats spent months treating the allegations as unquestionably true.
Now that it's clear that there was never much evidence to support the allegation, who looks worse:
- The US Intel agents who leaked the story to the Press to hurt Trump?
or
- The US Media that treated an uncorroborated and unverified claim as Factual?
Trump was given Four Pinochios by the Washington Post when he said last year that the story wasn't true. Will the Post apologize?
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Just another in the laundry list of fake stories. The media went crazy about this one and denounced Trump as a traitor under the thumb of Putin. But crickets now. There was also the Wash Post "find the fraud" quote that turned out to be another totally false story. And the Capitol Police officer killed by a fire extinguisher. False. The only person murdered on Jan. 6 was an unarmed protestor. No rush to name the police officer involved in that shooting. It is not known even today. And imagine the outcry if Mitch McConnell and Trump had suggested adding four justices to the Supreme Court! LOL The left wingers would have been crying from the roof tops that it was the end times. A dictatorship.
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To the surprise of no one who understood why the allegations were not credible, the Biden administration confirmed last week that the allegations of Russia paying bounties to the Taliban for attacks on US Troops, lacked corroboration.
U.S. Intel Walks Back Claim Russians Put Bounties on American Troops
https://www.thedailybeast.com/us-intel-walks-back-claim-russians-put-bounties-on-american-troops
There were signs from the start that the story might be based on unvetted and uncorroborated intelligence but the Media and Democrats spent months treating the allegations as unquestionably true.
Now that it's clear that there was never much evidence to support the allegation, who looks worse:
- The US Intel agents who leaked the story to the Press to hurt Trump?
or
- The US Media that treated an uncorroborated and unverified claim as Factual?
Trump was given Four Pinochios by the Washington Post when he said last year that the story wasn't true. Will the Post apologize?
LOL ! Somebody is a foxnoose "viewer". Why aren't you whining about the "rigged election, stolen from the 45th Victim-OTUS, AKA, the mayor of mar-a-lago", instead of about this Fox-massage? Are you inferring Wapo is incorrect about Trump's other 29,999 lies?
https://www.foxnews.com/media/washington-post-trump-bounty-intel-russia-afghanistan
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51126099946_57126dbbf7_h.jpg)
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Just another in the laundry list of fake stories. The media went crazy about this one and denounced Trump as a traitor under the thumb of Putin. But crickets now. There was also the Wash Post "find the fraud" quote that turned out to be another totally false story. And the Capitol Police officer killed by a fire extinguisher. False. The only person murdered on Jan. 6 was an unarmed protestor. No rush to name the police officer involved in that shooting. It is not known even today. And imagine the outcry if Mitch McConnell and Trump had suggested adding four justices to the Supreme Court! LOL The left wingers would have been crying from the roof tops that it was the end times. A dictatorship.
Refreshing to read that Fox News, you, and Jon Banks suddenly trust the analysis of U.S. Intel, and of the Biden Admin., no less!
If you're "in for a penny" doesn't it follow that you are "in for a pound"? Kilimnik is a Russian intel agent mentioned in the bi-partisan Senate Select Intel Committee report, 800 times. He was the longtime business partner of the later convicted felon, Manafort, (8 counts, by a jury in his criminal trial) who obstructed justice to protect Trump, paid back by Trump via a corrupt presidential pardon? Did Trump not choose Kilimnik's partner, Paul Manafort, who curiously agreed to "work" without financial compensation, to be Trump's 2016 campaign manager?
FAQ: Who is Konstantin Kilimnik and why does his name ...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/konstantin-kilimnik-trump-campaign-manafort-senate/2020/08/18/b72cfd42-e16d-11ea-82d8-5e55d47e90ca_story.html
Aug 18, 2020 Kilimnik's name appears about 800 times in the Senate intelligence report. The report said Manafort's proximity to Trump "created opportunities for the Russian intelligence services to exert...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konstantin_Kilimnik
Konstantin V. Kilimnik (Russian: Константин Килимник; Ukrainian: Костянтин Килимник; born 27 April 1970) is a Russian/Ukrainian[1] political consultant. In the United States, he became a person of interest in multiple investigations regarding Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections, particularly due to his ties with Paul Manafort, an American political consultant, who was a campaign chairman for Donald Trump.
Kilimnik is believed by CNN and The New York Times to be "Person A" listed in court documents filed by the Special Counsel against Manafort. He is also believed to be Person A in court documents filed in the criminal indictment of Alex van der Zwaan.[2] The April 2019 Mueller Report concluded Kilimnik was connected to Russian intelligence agencies, while the August 2020 final report on 2016 election interference from the Senate Intelligence Committee characterized him as a "Russian intelligence officer".[3] In 2017, Kilimnik denied having ties to Russian intelligence agencies.[4] Kilimnik was indicted by Special Counsel Robert Mueller's grand jury on 8 June 2018 on charges of obstruction of justice and conspiracy to obstruct justice by attempting to tamper with a witness on behalf of Manafort.[5][6]
United States intelligence community analysis released in March 2021 found that Kilimnik was among proxies of Russian intelligence who promoted and laundered misleading or unsubstantiated narratives about Joe Biden "to US media organizations, US officials, and prominent US individuals, including some close to former President Trump and his administration" to benefit the 2020 Trump presidential campaign.[7][8] In April 2021, the US Treasury Department sanctioned Kilimnik for giving Russian intelligence "sensitive information on polling and campaign strategy" provided to him by Manafort, and for promoting the false narrative that Ukraine, rather than Russia, had interfered in the 2016 election.[9] ...
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LOL ! Somebody is a foxnoose "viewer". Why aren't you whining about the "rigged election, stolen from the 45th Victim-OTUS, AKA, the mayor of mar-a-lago", instead of about this Fox-massage? Are you inferring Wapo is incorrect about Trump's other 29,999 lies?
https://www.foxnews.com/media/washington-post-trump-bounty-intel-russia-afghanistan
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51126099946_57126dbbf7_h.jpg)
From the start, it was clear that the allegations were weak.
First the NSA shot down the allegation. The Pentagon agreed that it lacked corroboration.
Under Biden it seems the CIA finally came around to admitting that the claims lacked corroborating evidence.
But Biden also probably needed to clear up the issue before withdrawing troops from Afghansitan.
So yeah, I believe it's true that the whole story was an exaggeration of uncorroborated Intelligence.
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Refreshing to read that Fox News, you, and Jon Banks suddenly trust the analysis of U.S. Intel, and of the Biden Admin., no less!
If you're "in for a penny" doesn't it follow that you are "in for a pound"? Kilimnik is a Russian intel agent mentioned in the bi-partisan Senate Select Intel Committee report, 800 times. He was the longtime business partner of the later convicted felon, Manafort, (8 counts, by a jury in his criminal trial) who obstructed justice to protect Trump, paid back by Trump via a corrupt presidential pardon? Did Trump not choose Kilimnik's partner, Paul Manafort, who curiously agreed to "work" without financial compensation, to be Trump's 2016 campaign manager?
Thank goodness President Trump didn't cave to the pressure of a leaked intelligence report. The media attempted to use this dubious report to coerce him to take countermeasures against Russia. A superpower. Imagine an international incident manufactured by the media to provoke hostilities. A very dangerous situation. But Trump had the guts to stand his ground and take the political hit. We also learned yesterday that the Capitol police officer that the NY Times and other media outlets alleged was murdered on Jan. 6 actually died from natural causes. The only person who was murdered that day appears to be an unarmed protestor. A military vet. But no one cares about that because she was a Trump supporter.
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Thank goodness President Trump didn't cave to the pressure of a leaked intelligence report. The media attempted to use this dubious report to coerce him to take countermeasures against Russia. A superpower. Imagine an international incident manufactured by the media to provoke hostilities. A very dangerous situation. But Trump had the guts to stand his ground and take the political hit. We also learned yesterday that the Capitol police officer that the NY Times and other media outlets alleged was murdered on Jan. 6 actually died from natural causes. The only person who was murdered that day appears to be an unarmed protestor. A military vet. But no one cares about that because she was a Trump supporter.
The "bounty" allegation was a legitimate story to report on but how they reported it was a complete failure. There were no qualifiers, no questioning of the sourcing; it was just reported as a fact. Too many outlets not only uncritically accepted and repeated the claim they then used it to go after Trump (see Rachel Maddow's "reporting" on this for an extreme example).
This was classic Trump "resistance" journalism where all of the necessary standards to verify a story were tossed aside because they wanted to get Trump. It's remarkably similar to the Russian collusion story where elements of the FBI and Justice Department tossed out the safeguards because they believed the worst about him and wanted him damaged.
I wanted to "get" Trump too - he was terrible for the country - but this is not how you "get" him. The worst part of this is that nobody will be held accountable.
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The "bounty" allegation was a legitimate story to report on but how they reported it was a complete failure. There were no qualifiers, no questioning of the sourcing; it was just reported as a fact. Too many outlets not only uncritically accepted and repeated the claim they then used it to go after Trump (see Rachel Maddow's "reporting" on this for an extreme example).
This was classic Trump "resistance" journalism where all of the necessary standards to verify a story were tossed aside because they wanted to get Trump. It's remarkable similar to the Russian collusion story where elements of the FBI and Justice Department tossed out the safeguards because they believed the worst about him and wanted him damaged.
I wanted to "get" Trump too - he was terrible for the country - but this is not how you "get" him. The worst part of this is that nobody will be held accountable.
Someone in the intelligence community violated the law to leak the story. The media ran with it as though it was confirmed for the sole purpose of using the story to get to Trump and harm him politically. A very dangerous situation to pressure the US President into taking countermeasures against a foreign power based on a dubious claim. Fortunately, Trump didn't play along. I can understand why many people take issue with his personality but when all was said and done he usually did the right thing and was not coerced by the media or woke crowd into doing things that would be harmful for the country for his own political gain. Almost a singular example in modern politics.
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The "bounty" allegation was a legitimate story to report on but how they reported it was a complete failure. There were no qualifiers, no questioning of the sourcing; it was just reported as a fact. Too many outlets not only uncritically accepted and repeated the claim they then used it to go after Trump (see Rachel Maddow's "reporting" on this for an extreme example).
This was classic Trump "resistance" journalism where all of the necessary standards to verify a story were tossed aside because they wanted to get Trump. It's remarkably similar to the Russian collusion story where elements of the FBI and Justice Department tossed out the safeguards because they believed the worst about him and wanted him damaged.
I wanted to "get" Trump too - he was terrible for the country - but this is not how you "get" him. The worst part of this is that nobody will be held accountable.
Same here. I didn’t vote for Trump. I didn’t agree with his political views or view him as fit to be POTUS. But even I was shocked by the determination of the Media to “Get Trump”.
What do you think of the politicization of the Intelligence community during Trump’s Presidency?
What I’m referring to was the unusually frequent leaks from the FBI, CIA, and NSC throughout his Presidency.
It almost seemed to me like there was an anti-Trump mutiny within the Intelligence Community.
For example, the “Whistleblower” that led to Trump’s first Impeachment was a CIA employee who was a friend of some members of Trump’s NSC. It seemed like an orchestrated attempt by some within the IC to get Trump removed.
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Just another in the laundry list of fake stories. The media went crazy about this one and denounced Trump as a traitor under the thumb of Putin. But crickets now. There was also the Wash Post "find the fraud" quote that turned out to be another totally false story. And the Capitol Police officer killed by a fire extinguisher. False. The only person murdered on Jan. 6 was an unarmed protestor. No rush to name the police officer involved in that shooting. It is not known even today. And imagine the outcry if Mitch McConnell and Trump had suggested adding four justices to the Supreme Court! LOL The left wingers would have been crying from the roof tops that it was the end times. A dictatorship.
More spin and b.s. from Richard.
Each time Criminal Donald is hit with a new criminal scandal right wingers like Richard cry "its fake news" hoping it will go away.
Trump's bounty gate is being investigated and his maga thugs had no business breaking inside the Capitol.
Republicans already illegally packed the Supreme Court with unqualified right wingers that shouldn't even be on the court. Obama had Garland illegally blocked by "The Turtle" Moscow Mitch McConnell and rammed through right wing Barrett during an election.
Richard and his cronies cried "Russian collusion was a hoax". Manafort gave Russians their campaign data. Just another example of more collusion.
Biden Administration Says Russian Intelligence Obtained Trump Campaign Data: A Treasury Department document shed more light on links between the campaign and Russian spies
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/15/us/politics/russian-intelligence-trump-campaign.html
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More spin and b.s. from Richard.
Each time Criminal Donald is hit with a new criminal scandal right wingers like Richard cry "its fake news" hoping it will go away.
Trump's bounty gate is being investigated and his maga thugs had no business breaking inside the Capitol.
Republicans already illegally packed the Supreme Court with unqualified right wingers that shouldn't even be on the court. Obama had Garland illegally blocked by "The Turtle" Moscow Mitch McConnell and rammed through right wing Barrett during an election.
Richard and his cronies cried "Russian collusion was a hoax". Manafort gave Russians their campaign data. Just another example of more collusion.
Biden Administration Says Russian Intelligence Obtained Trump Campaign Data: A Treasury Department document shed more light on links between the campaign and Russian spies
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/15/us/politics/russian-intelligence-trump-campaign.html
It's probable that Russia was spying on Trump's campaign (and Hillary's).
It's proven that the FBI spied on Trump's campaign:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/02/us/politics/fbi-government-investigator-trump.html
https://apnews.com/article/603033fbcdbf1dd7b39fa419f3cbfd80
Konstantin Kilimnik may have been a Russian spy but there's no proof that he worked with anyone in Trump's campaign other than Paul Manafort, who was fired by Trump during the summer of 2016.
If Kilimnik was the link between Trump's campaign and Russian intelligence, who on Trump's campaign communicated with him after Manafort was fired?
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Just another in the laundry list of fake stories. The media went crazy about this one and denounced Trump as a traitor under the thumb of Putin. But crickets now. There was also the Wash Post "find the fraud" quote that turned out to be another totally false story. And the Capitol Police officer killed by a fire extinguisher. False. The only person murdered on Jan. 6 was an unarmed protestor. No rush to name the police officer involved in that shooting. It is not known even today. And imagine the outcry if Mitch McConnell and Trump had suggested adding four justices to the Supreme Court! LOL The left wingers would have been crying from the roof tops that it was the end times. A dictatorship.
Sit back and enjoy Richard, the fun is just getting started. Criminal Donald and his criminal henchmen are all going down. Richard is using projection and gaslighting us again. The right wing media is the fake news.
NY Post reporter who penned fake article on Kamala Harris’ book says she was ‘ordered’ to write it
https://www.rawstory.com/ny-post-reporter-who-penned-fake-article-on-kamala-harris-book-says-she-was-ordered-to-write-it/
Rudy Giuliani's home, office searched by federal agents as part of lobbying probe, sources tell ABC News
Sources say Giuliani's electronic devices were confiscated by authorities
https://abcnews.go.com/US/rudy-giulianis-home-office-searched-federal-agents-part/story?id=77368884
FBI seizes electronics from Rudy Giuliani's Manhattan apartment
https://abc7ny.com/politics/fbi-seizes-electronics-from-rudy-giulianis-nyc-apartment/10556451/
A grand jury has been impaneled in the federal investigation into Rudy Giuliani
https://www.businessinsider.com/grand-jury-has-been-impaneled-the-federal-investigation-into-giuliani-2021-4
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Incredible but another false story this week reported by the Wash Post, NY Times, and others about Rudy being given a formal warning that he was a target of a Russian disinformation investigation. Turns out to be completely false.
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Incredible but another false story this week reported by the Wash Post, NY Times, and others about Rudy being given a formal warning that he was a target of a Russian disinformation investigation. Turns out to be completely false.
I've expressed my dislike - to put it mildly - with Trump and his unbelievably unethical cronies but the corruption by the major news media over these years is remarkable. What kind of sourcing do they do on these stories now? Do they just accept a leak and then run with it? What is their confirmation? Calling the same source up and asking them again?
There used to be a rule by reporters that if an unnamed source lied to them that the promise of anonymity ended, that they would expose that source. Well, clearly there have been a series of falsehoods leaked by people in the DOJ and FBI and CIA over these years but the media won't expose them. Or hasn't. The media should be furious with being used like this. But they don't seem to be.
The leftwing writer Glenn Greenwald wrote a longish piece on this issue. It's here: https://greenwald.substack.com/p/corporate-news-outlets-again-confirm
He also Tweeted this: "In preparation for this writing this article, I spent the day notifying close to a dozen of these media luminaries that their false tweet [about Giuliani being warned] remained up and asked whether they intend to take it down and/or correct the false tweet. Only one - NBC White House Correspondent Geoff Bennett - responded. He did so by blocking me on Twitter, while leaving the false tweet up, uncorrected."
Opposing Trump shouldn't justify abandoning all and every journalistic standard. Apparently it does. Thus the corruption. If this can be done for Trump, why not others? What are the rules now?
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I've expressed my dislike - to put it mildly - with Trump and his unbelievably unethical cronies but the corruption by the major news media over these years is remarkable. What kind of sourcing do they do on these stories now? Do they just accept a leak and then run with it? What is their confirmation? Calling the same source up and asking them again?
There used to be a rule by reporters that if an unnamed source lied to them that the promise of anonymity ended, that they would expose that source. Well, clearly there have been a series of falsehoods leaked by people in the DOJ and FBI and CIA over these years but the media won't expose them. Or hasn't. The media should be furious with being used like this. But they don't seem to be.
The leftwing writer Glenn Greenwald wrote a longish piece on this issue. It's here: https://greenwald.substack.com/p/corporate-news-outlets-again-confirm
He also Tweeted this: "In preparation for this writing this article, I spent the day notifying close to a dozen of these media luminaries that their false tweet [about Giuliani being warned] remained up and asked whether they intend to take it down and/or correct the false tweet. Only one - NBC White House Correspondent Geoff Bennett - responded. He did so by blocking me on Twitter, while leaving the false tweet up, uncorrected."
Opposing Trump shouldn't justify abandoning all and every journalistic standard. Apparently it does. Thus the corruption. If this can be done for Trump, why not others? What are the rules now?
I don't know when this trend began but it does seem like the Press has for the most part become stenographers for the National Security Community.
And the worst part is that there are few, if any, consequences for getting stories they inaccurately report on wrong...
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Sit back and enjoy Richard, the fun is just getting started. Criminal Donald and his criminal henchmen are all going down. Richard is using projection and gaslighting us again. The right wing media is the fake news.
NY Post reporter who penned fake article on Kamala Harris’ book says she was ‘ordered’ to write it
https://www.rawstory.com/ny-post-reporter-who-penned-fake-article-on-kamala-harris-book-says-she-was-ordered-to-write-it/
Rudy Giuliani's home, office searched by federal agents as part of lobbying probe, sources tell ABC News
Sources say Giuliani's electronic devices were confiscated by authorities
https://abcnews.go.com/US/rudy-giulianis-home-office-searched-federal-agents-part/story?id=77368884
FBI seizes electronics from Rudy Giuliani's Manhattan apartment
https://abc7ny.com/politics/fbi-seizes-electronics-from-rudy-giulianis-nyc-apartment/10556451/
A grand jury has been impaneled in the federal investigation into Rudy Giuliani
https://www.businessinsider.com/grand-jury-has-been-impaneled-the-federal-investigation-into-giuliani-2021-4
It has nothing to do with me. Take it up with the media that keeps retracting fake news stories. And note that the FEC quietly closed the investigation into an alleged campaign finance violation involving Stormy Daniels. The woman who tried to blackmail Trump and should have gone to jail. A story that CNN breathlessly ran for months with her now convicted attorney as the star on TV every night.
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It has nothing to do with me. Take it up with the media that keeps retracting fake news stories. And note that the FEC quietly closed the investigation into an alleged campaign finance violation involving Stormy Daniels. The woman who tried to blackmail Trump and should have gone to jail. A story that CNN breathlessly ran for months with her now convicted attorney as the star on TV every night.
The tribal fanaticism by Mr. Plant is part of the problem we have. It's like a religious war now. You guys need to stop thinking about teams or tribes and think beyond that. You're not quite as bad as he is but you're succumbing to this type of worldview.
The incredibly courageous Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who saw tribal politics destroy her native country of Somalia, explains it in "Tribalism Comes to the West":
"While such violence is yet to seize America, all the tribalist ingredients are present. There is a blind commitment to one party or the other; emotions are running high; there is a lack of trust in civic institutions. If such tribalism isn’t overcome, it’s only a matter of time before the situation escalates."
And: "Many Republicans continue to dispute the legitimacy of the result of the last presidential election; while on the Left, the woke are eroding the Democratic Party from the inside, as identity politics displace universalist aspirations. Some citizens are viewed as part of oppressive groups, some as part of oppressed groups. A person’s individual actions can generally do little to change the immutable characteristics of the tribe to which they belong."
Really, this zero sum view of things has to stop.
Full piece here: https://www.somtribune.com/2021/05/10/tribalism-comes-to-the-west/
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The tribal fanaticism by Mr. Plant is part of the problem we have. It's like a religious war now. You guys need to stop thinking about teams or tribes and think beyond that. You're not quite as bad as he is but you're succumbing to this type of worldview.
The incredibly courageous Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who saw tribal politics destroy her native country of Somalia, explains it in "Tribalism Comes to the West":
"While such violence is yet to seize America, all the tribalist ingredients are present. There is a blind commitment to one party or the other; emotions are running high; there is a lack of trust in civic institutions. If such tribalism isn’t overcome, it’s only a matter of time before the situation escalates."
And: "Many Republicans continue to dispute the legitimacy of the result of the last presidential election; while on the Left, the woke are eroding the Democratic Party from the inside, as identity politics displace universalist aspirations. Some citizens are viewed as part of oppressive groups, some as part of oppressed groups. A person’s individual actions can generally do little to change the immutable characteristics of the tribe to which they belong."
Really, this zero sum view of things has to stop.
Full piece here: https://www.somtribune.com/2021/05/10/tribalism-comes-to-the-west/
I deal in results and facts and not hype. Is Trump a nice guy or someone that I admire? No. But he didn't start wars under false pretense or engage in the hypocrisy of establishment politicians. He is like the most unlikeable football coach whose team wins championships.
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Where is the outrage about paying the Russian hackers $4 million to allow them to reopen the pipeline? Wow. What a failure of leadership. If that had occurred under Trump the media would be howling with outrage. A product of weakness and incompetence under Old Joe. Putin must be laughing his arse off. A handful of Russian teenagers are millionaires and shutdown the gas supply to half of the US. A national security nightmare in which the terrorist have been emboldened.
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I deal in results and facts and not hype. Is Trump a nice guy or someone that I admire? No. But he didn't start wars under false pretense or engage in the hypocrisy of establishment politicians. He is like the most unlikeable football coach whose team wins championships.
One final try from me:
The fact is that Bush declared war not Cheney. And the fact is that Bush was told by his intelligence agencies that Iraq had WMD and a WMD program. George Tenet, the CIA director, told him, "It's a slam dunk" that Iraq had WMD. This was not Cheney telling him this.
And the fact is that numerous others governments also believed Iraq had WMDs. Did Tony Blair believe Dick Cheney? Or did he rely on his own intelligence services?
And the facts are that members of Congress based on their own briefings and intelligence provided to them by the intelligence agencies - and NOT Cheney - believed there was WMDs in Iraq. And so they agreed to authorize the use of force - the war - that ensued.
And the fact is there were several investigations - including the Silberman/Robb report - that concluded that the intelligence agencies were wrong about the issue. The intelligence agencies and analysts informed Congress about the question. Congress has its own intelligence committees and oversight and staff. They got the information directly from the intelligence community and NOT Dick Cheney.
You think Hillary Clinton and Kerry and the other Democrats in Congress agreed to the authorization because they listened to Dick Cheney? You think the intelligence community told them there were no WMDs in Iraq but instead they believed Cheney's "lies"? Is that what you think happened?
The Silbermann/Robb Report concluded: "The Intelligence Community's performance in assessing Iraq's pre-war weapons of mass destruction programs was a major intelligence failure. The failure was not merely that the Intelligence Community's assessments were wrong. There were also serious shortcomings in the way these assessments were made and communicated to policymakers."
Again: The intelligence community said Iraq had WMDs. It wasn't Dick Cheney. You think they said there were no WMDs in Iraq and then Cheney made up a story that Iraq did have them? And then all of the Democrats believed Cheney? This is JFK conspiracy level fantasy.
This is not about Trump being likeable. It's about him telling egregious and dangerous falsehoods about the election and about his cavalier reaction - at best - to the assault on the Capitol.
Our institutions are under assault from the Trump right and the "woke" left. Both sides are undermining our institutions, our history, our country. This illiberal assault has to stop. There are no sides; there's just facts and the truth. And one of them, if not the main one is this: the election wasn't stolen. Period.
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Where is the outrage about paying the Russian hackers $4 million to allow them to reopen the pipeline? Wow. What a failure of leadership. If that had occurred under Trump the media would be howling with outrage. A product of weakness and incompetence under Old Joe. Putin must be laughing his arse off. A handful of Russian teenagers are millionaires and shutdown the gas supply to half of the US. A national security nightmare in which the terrorist have been emboldened.
Colonial is a private company. It was their call.
They were losing millions of dollars for each day that the pipeline was not able to distribute Gas. So it makes sense to pay the ransom rather than lose the same amount of money or more due to delays in getting their computers back online.
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One final try from me:
The fact is that Bush declared war not Cheney. And the fact is that Bush was told by his intelligence agencies that Iraq had WMD and a WMD program. George Tenet, the CIA director, told him, "It's a slam dunk" that Iraq had WMD. This was not Cheney telling him this.
And the fact is that numerous others governments also believed Iraq had WMDs. Did Tony Blair believe Dick Cheney? Or did he rely on his own intelligence services?
And the facts are that members of Congress based on their own briefings and intelligence provided to them by the intelligence agencies - and NOT Cheney - believed there was WMDs in Iraq. And so they agreed to authorize the use of force - the war - that ensued.
And the fact is there were several investigations - including the Silberman/Robb report - that concluded that the intelligence agencies were wrong about the issue. The intelligence agencies and analysts informed Congress about the question. Congress has its own intelligence committees and oversight and staff. They got the information directly from the intelligence community and NOT Dick Cheney.
You think Hillary Clinton and Kerry and the other Democrats in Congress agreed to the authorization because they listened to Dick Cheney? You think the intelligence community told them there were no WMDs in Iraq but instead they believed Cheney's "lies"? Is that what you think happened?
The Silbermann/Robb Report concluded: "The Intelligence Community's performance in assessing Iraq's pre-war weapons of mass destruction programs was a major intelligence failure. The failure was not merely that the Intelligence Community's assessments were wrong. There were also serious shortcomings in the way these assessments were made and communicated to policymakers."
Again: The intelligence community said Iraq had WMDs. It wasn't Dick Cheney. You think they said there were no WMDs in Iraq and then Cheney made up a story that Iraq did have them? And then all of the Democrats believed Cheney? This is JFK conspiracy level fantasy.
This is not about Trump being likeable. It's about him telling egregious and dangerous falsehoods about the election and about his cavalier reaction - at best - to the assault on the Capitol.
Our institutions are under assault from the Trump right and the "woke" left. Both sides are undermining our institutions, our history, our country. This illiberal assault has to stop. There are no sides; there's just facts and the truth. And one of them, if not the main one is this: the election wasn't stolen. Period.
UN Weapons inspector and former spy, Scott Ritter, admitted that he knew most of Iraq's weapons stockpiles were destroyed after the first Gulf War.
There was no evidence that Iraq created new stockpiles of banned weapons after they kicked the Weapons Inspectors out.
It's simply naive to think that WMDs were anything more than a convenient excuse to overthrow Saddam's regime. Something that Hawks on both the Left and Right wanted to do going back to the Clinton administration.
Iraq Liberation Act of 1998
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Liberation_Act#:~:text=The%20Iraq%20Liberation%20Act%20of,is%20the%20policy%20of%20the
Lastly, Dick Cheney might not have been responsible for the WMD disinfo but he is largely responsible for spreading debunked lies about Saddam playing a role in the 9/11 attacks.
Remembering Why Americans Loathe Dick Cheney
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/08/remembering-why-americans-loathe-dick-cheney/244306/
...despite overwhelming skepticism within the government of a link between Iraq and Al Qaeda--resulting in the conclusion of the 9/11 Commission that "no credible evidence" for such a link existed, and the CIA's determination that Hussein "did not have a relationship" with Al Qaeda--the vice president continued to insist that the relationship had been confirmed
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To add a post note to my own post above: I have no idea, literally none, what Dick Cheney's views or statements, alleged "lies", comments on Iraq almost 20 years ago has to do with Liz Cheney's views today about Donald Trump and the dangerous falsehoods he is saying about the election and the January 6th assault on the Capitol.
How is what Dick Cheney said about Iraq and WMDs even remotely relevant to Liz Cheney's views on an entirely different matter? These are two separate people on two different subjects.
To put it differently: If Dick Cheney opposed the Iraq war would that somehow make Liz Cheney's views on Trump correct? How are Liz Cheney's views affected by what Dick Cheney said almost two decades ago?
Answers: They wouldn't and they aren't. Liz Cheney's views on Trump stand or fall on their own and shouldn't be judged because another person on another subject two decades ago did something.
And with that, I'll return to the JFK assassination issue.
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Liz Cheney worked at the State Department while her father was VP and while she worked for the government, she co-signed her father’s lies.
She went even further by defending the CIA’s torture program.
Worse, she publicly threw her gay sister under the bus.
I commend her for taking a principled stance against Trump but that doesn’t mean she’s a good person…
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Colonial is a private company. It was their call.
They were losing millions of dollars for each day that the pipeline was not able to distribute Gas. So it makes sense to pay the ransom rather than lose the same amount of money or more due to delays in getting their computers back online.
That doesn't inspire much confidence. If a group of Russian hackers can shutdown the gas supply to half the US and demand a ransom, that is a major national security issues. Only the US government has the power to put a stop to that. Turn the power off in Moscow for a few days and this will come to an end real fast. But we have Old Joe asleep at the wheel. Imagine the indignation if Trump were President while the Russians caused a major US gas shortage and were paid millions in ransom and all he had to say was that Putin wasn't involved and that he had "no comment." The media would be clamoring for impeachment.
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That doesn't inspire much confidence. If a group of Russian hackers can shutdown the gas supply to half the US and demand a ransom, that is a major national security issues. Only the US government has the power to put a stop to that. Turn the power off in Moscow for a few days and this will come to an end real fast. But we have Old Joe asleep at the wheel. Imagine the indignation if Trump were President while the Russians caused a major US gas shortage and were paid millions in ransom and all he had to say was that Putin wasn't involved and that he had "no comment." The media would be clamoring for impeachment.
Stupid idea. Russia has the ability to retaliate in a major way if the US escalates our Cyber attacks. Offensive escalation is a bad idea.
Cyber Warfare is the nuclear weapons of the 21st century. Do you really believe Russia can't shut down our infrastructure in retaliation?
I don't know what the solution is but I doubt Trump would've done what you're recommending.
The bottom line is, Colonial is a private company and many private companies are unable to secure their networks from Hackers.
We need the military to do more to help secure vulnerable private networks. Strengthening our Cybers Defenses is the only thing we can realistically do.
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Stupid idea. Russia has the ability to retaliate in a major way if the US escalates our Cyber attacks. Offensive escalation is a bad idea.
Cyber Warfare is the nuclear weapons of the 21st century. Do you really believe Russia can't shut down our infrastructure in retaliation?
I don't know what the solution is but I doubt Trump would've done what you're recommending.
The bottom line is, Colonial is a private company and many private companies are unable to secure their networks from Hackers.
We need the military to do more to help secure vulnerable private networks. Strengthening our Cybers Defenses is the only thing we can realistically do.
This is not just any private company like the local store. It is an organization that supplies gas to a large portion the US. There is a national, governmental interest in protecting them from such attacks. What is a stupid idea is to pay ransom and emboldened further acts. Cyber attacks are cat and mouse. They can never be completely stopped by purely defensive measures. Putin knows who these people are. He could put a stop to it this minute. But instead he is laughing his arse off at Biden's weakness. Half the US was just crippled by some Russian teenagers who are millionaires. Putin only responds when some of his rich friends are inconvenienced. Turn the power off to some Russian oligarch's factory and there would be immediate results. This would never happen again from Russia. Imagine if this had happened under Trump and his only response was to end the mask mandate to change the topic. The Dems would be howling in outrage clamoring for his impeachment.
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This is not just any private company like the local store. It is an organization that supplies gas to a large portion the US. There is a national, governmental interest in protecting them from such attacks.
It's still a private company.
If you think this example and others like SolarWinds justifies the Federal govt taking a bigger role in Cyber Security for private businesses, I totally agree.
As far as retaliation, it will become an endless cycle if neither side has a technological advantage...
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It's still a private company.
If you think this example and others like SolarWinds justifies the Federal govt taking a bigger role in Cyber Security for private businesses, I totally agree.
As far as retaliation, it will become an endless cycle if neither side has a technological advantage...
So the solution is to pay ransom and be forever at risk of being crippled by anyone with access to a computer? I'm not sure why it being a "private company" has anything to do with this. They certainly have the option to pay a ransom. That isn't the point. The point is that when it comes to certain "private" companies like those that supply gas and utilities there is a national security interest that extends beyond the interests of the private company. Only the US government has the resources and intelligence apparatus to keep this from happening over and over again. Russia is not going to invade the US because we make an issue of it by shutting down a factory or down. That is the language they understand. Putin wants to retain power and keep his rich friends happy. When their interests are threatened the result would be that those responsible for these hacks will end up in the Gulag. Weakness, however, is what creates further risk.
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US corporations enjoy the GOP's kowtow tax giveaways that make the effective tax rate so low that some pay no corporate tax at all (a few get a rebate). Many of those corporations take the savings and hand out millions in annual "bonuses" to executives. Maybe instead more could be spent by corporations on updating their software. A few years ago, I would go into Costco and see them using checkout software that looked like Windows 98.
And if the government has to do the donkey work on digital security for corporations and industries, then how about business and industry paying their fair share of tax.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/eb/U.S._Federal_Corporate_Income_Tax_Receipts_and_Pre-Tax_Profits.png/800px-U.S._Federal_Corporate_Income_Tax_Receipts_and_Pre-Tax_Profits.png)
Of course, even though these corporations are making astronomical profits, it's likely that any changes in their effective tax rate would be passed on to the consumer. Corporations never lose. It's all about the One Percent and their political toadys, the Republicans.
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So the solution is to pay ransom and be forever at risk of being crippled by anyone with access to a computer? I'm not sure why it being a "private company" has anything to do with this. They certainly have the option to pay a ransom.
The fact that they're a Private Company means that they had the Right to pay the ransom if they wanted.
We can criticize their decision but at the end of the day, they did what they felt was best to get their computers back online.
The point is that when it comes to certain "private" companies like those that supply gas and utilities there is a national security interest that extends beyond the interests of the private company. Only the US government has the resources and intelligence apparatus to keep this from happening over and over again. Russia is not going to invade the US because we make an issue of it by shutting down a factory or down. That is the language they understand. Putin wants to retain power and keep his rich friends happy. When their interests are threatened the result would be that those responsible for these hacks will end up in the Gulag. Weakness, however, is what creates further risk.
You're missing the point.
Russia has the ability to retaliate and shut down our factories and infrastructure. There's no evidence that our Cyber Warfare capabilities are superior to Russia's.
In a Cyber War, there would be no winner so escalation is against the interests of both the US and Russia (the same logic applies to Nuclear War: Mutually Assured Destruction).
We don't for certain know that the Russian government was involved in the Colonial Hack. Biden says it didn't involve the Russian government but for all we know, he could be saying that to save face. Afterall, it came on the heels of Biden's sanctions on Russia for the SolarWinds Hack. Which would mean Russia doesn't feel threatened by our retaliatory actions...
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Yet another astounding fake story came apart this week. A year ago Trump accurately suggested that the virus started in the Wuhan lab. And the Chinese were responsible. This was met with a storm of criticism from the leftist media and widely condemned as a lie and wild "conspiracy theory." Why? Because they wanted Trump to be the main focal point to blame for the pandemic. They couldn't allow the Chinese to bear any responsibility. Fast forward a year. Election over and Old Joe napping in the White House. Suddenly the story changes. The virus did likely start in the lab. Just like any reasonable person would have known a year ago. Just like the media knew a year ago. No other case could be traced prior the outbreak in Wuhan. There is a lab in that very city that deals with such viruses. Several members of that lab were hospitalized just prior to the outbreak. What a coincidence. Now the media is accepting the obvious. The entire house of cards is falling apart. This isn't just a case of media incompetence but an intentional lie to influence the outcome of the election.
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Yet another astounding fake story came apart this week. A year ago Trump accurately suggested that the virus started in the Wuhan lab. And the Chinese were responsible. This was met with a storm of criticism from the leftist media and widely condemned as a lie and wild "conspiracy theory." Why? Because they wanted Trump to be the main focal point to blame for the pandemic. They couldn't allow the Chinese to bear any responsibility. Fast forward a year. Election over and Old Joe napping in the White House. Suddenly the story changes. The virus did likely start in the lab. Just like any reasonable person would have known a year ago. Just like the media knew a year ago. No other case could be traced prior the outbreak in Wuhan. There is a lab in that very city that deals with such viruses. Several members of that lab were hospitalized just prior to the outbreak. What a coincidence. Now the media is accepting the obvious. The entire house of cards is falling apart. This isn't just a case of media incompetence but an intentional lie to influence the outcome of the election.
There’s no hard evidence (scientific or otherwise) that Covid-19 escaped from a Lab.
I agree that the US Media changed their tune on the Lab Leak theory due to politics.
But the facts are:
- Scientists generally agree that Covid shows no signs of being engineered in a Lab (that doesn't rule out the possibility of it being engineered. There are just no obvious signs)
- Viruses naturally jumping from animals to humans is common. Especially in China.
- No one knows when or how Covid might’ve escaped from a Lab if it didn't evolve naturally
There’s scientific evidence that Covid may have been circulating for months before it was discovered in Wuhan. You have to remember that the original outbreak coincided with Flu season so lots of early cases were likely misdiagnosed as cases of influenza. The known evidence shows that Covid-19 likely originated as early as August 2019 (if not earlier).
Given that we don’t yet know when Covid first began infecting humans, we shouldn't treat vague reports about a few Wuhan Lab workers getting sick in November 2019 (during Flu season) as a “smoking gun”.
With all that said, I find the Lab Leak origin to be plausible but based on the known facts, we're far from being able to reach any firm conclusion on the origin of the virus...
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(https://www.economist.com/img/b/608/739/90/sites/default/files/20200725_STM930.png)
Sure, just coincidental Wuhan is next door to large concentrations of bat species.
The Bats Behind the Pandemic, Wall Street Journal, April 9, 2021 ( Link (https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-bats-behind-the-pandemic-11586440959) )
None of this occurred before the Americans (the world's biggest polluters) used
Agent Orange in Vietnam. One of the earliest viruses was found in Australia in 1970.
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(https://www.economist.com/img/b/608/739/90/sites/default/files/20200725_STM930.png)
Sure, just coincidental Wuhan is next door to large concentrations of bat species.
The Bats Behind the Pandemic, Wall Street Journal, April 9, 2021 ( Link (https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-bats-behind-the-pandemic-11586440959) )
None of this occurred before the Americans (the world's biggest polluters) used
Agent Orange in Vietnam. One of the earliest viruses was found in Australia in 1970.
The 1918 Spanish Flu was discovered by Spain but didn't originate in Spain. It originated in North America and was brought to Europe by US soldiers during WWI.
The same MAY be true of Covid-19 and it's discovery in Wuhan.
It's certainly plausible that the virus escaped from a Lab in Wuhan but it hasn't been emphasized enough that we still don't know when or where the jump from animal to human happened.
An outbreak from a Lab in Wuhan beginning in November 2019 seems unlikely and implausible based on the scientific evidence...
(https://metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/PRI_148862411.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&zoom=1&resize=964%2C631)
Researchers found that the closest type of coronavirus to the one discovered in bats – type A, the original human virus genome – was present in Wuhan, but was not the city’s predominant virus type. Mutated versions of A were seen in Americans reported to have lived in Wuhan, and a large number of A-type viruses were found in patients from the US and Australia. Wuhan’s major virus type was B and was prevalent in patients from across east Asia, however it didn’t travel much beyond the region without further mutations.
The researchers say the C variant is the major European type, found in early patients from France, Italy, Sweden and England.
Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/10/coronavirus-mutated-three-distinct-strains-spread-across-world-12536852/?ito=cbshare
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Based on the genetic data, it appears that Covid-19 originated somewhere else in China and mutated to "Type-B" which caused the major outbreak in Wuhan.
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There’s no hard evidence (scientific or otherwise) that Covid-19 escaped from a Lab.
I agree that the US Media changed their tune on the Lab Leak theory due to politics.
But the facts are:
- Scientists generally agree that Covid shows no signs of being engineered in a Lab (that doesn't rule out the possibility of it being engineered. There are just no obvious signs)
- Viruses naturally jumping from animals to humans is common. Especially in China.
- No one knows when or how Covid might’ve escaped from a Lab if it didn't evolve naturally
There’s scientific evidence that Covid may have been circulating for months before it was discovered in Wuhan. You have to remember that the original outbreak coincided with Flu season so lots of early cases were likely misdiagnosed as cases of influenza. The known evidence shows that Covid-19 likely originated as early as August 2019 (if not earlier).
Given that we don’t yet know when Covid first began infecting humans, we shouldn't treat vague reports about a few Wuhan Lab workers getting sick in November 2019 (during Flu season) as a “smoking gun”.
With all that said, I find the Lab Leak origin to be plausible but based on the known facts, we're far from being able to reach any firm conclusion on the origin of the virus...
It doesn't take much more than common sense to figure out what happened. Unlike other situations, there were zero cases identified anywhere else in China before it originated in Wuhan. The very first cases were there. Over a year later, it cannot be traced to any other area of the country. It would be a miraculous coincidence for the pandemic to begin in the very city where this lab is located. Regardless, the larger point stands. This was dismissed an an outlandish conspiracy claim under Trump. The media did that purely to place the blame for the pandemic on Trump during the election cycle and not allow any deflection of that blame on China. There is nothing new today that was not known a year ago. But suddenly it has become a plausible theory.
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It doesn't take much more than common sense to figure out what happened. Unlike other situations, there were zero cases identified anywhere else in China before it originated in Wuhan.
The obvious reason is that no one knew there was a "new" virus spreading until the Chinese scientists identified it in January of 2020.
The CDC director under Trump admitted that some early Covid cases were likely misdiagnosed as the Flu.
The virus was spreading in France and and Italy earlier than the first confirmed cases in China. I don't think that proves it originated outside of China. It could mean the virus left China earlier than previously thought.
Reuters: The new coronavirus was circulating in Italy in September 2019
https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-italy-timing/researchers-find-coronavirus-was-circulating-in-italy-earlier-than-thought-idUSKBN27W1J2
The very first cases were there. Over a year later, it cannot be traced to any other area of the country.
That's false as well.
The earliest strain of the virus has been found in other parts of China hundreds of miles away from Wuhan.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2020-05-13/scientist-suggests-coronavirus-originated-outside-of-wuhan
"Of 23 samples that came from Wuhan, only three were type A, the rest were type B, a version two mutations from A. But in other parts of China, Forster says, initially A was the predominant strain. For instance, of nine genome samples in Guangdong, some 600 miles south of Wuhan, five were A types.
"I would be a bit careful about pinpointing a place (of origin), because we don't have many samples from the early phase," he says. "But it seems to me we shouldn't restrict ourselves to Wuhan when looking for the origin."
It would be a miraculous coincidence for the pandemic to begin in the very city where this lab is located.
It would but what if it didn't begin in Wuhan? What if it was identified in Wuhan simply because they have scientists there who have the expertise to identify new viruses?
We don't yet know when the outbreak began and just because it was discovered in Wuhan doesn't mean it originated there.
While it's possible that the virus escaped from a Lab, we should keep an open mind until there's hard evidence. As of now, there's only circumstantial evidence and the date for when the outbreak began keeps changing.
U.S. intelligence chief: spy agencies do not know exactly when COVID-19 first transmitted
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-security-covid/u-s-intelligence-chief-spy-agencies-do-not-know-exactly-when-covid-19-first-transmitted-idUSKBN2C123S
Regardless, the larger point stands. This was dismissed an an outlandish conspiracy claim under Trump. The media did that purely to place the blame for the pandemic on Trump during the election cycle and not allow any deflection of that blame on China. There is nothing new today that was not known a year ago. But suddenly it has become a plausible theory.
Well we agree that the news media shouldn't have ruled out a Lab accident as a plausible origin for the virus. Until we know more about the earliest cases, it's on the table as a plausible explanation...