JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate => Topic started by: Gerry Down on April 09, 2021, 01:19:00 PM
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This is what the socialist utopia that Oswald died for looks like:
You'll notice that it suffers from the same problems that Oswald ran away from in Russia - corruption at the top of the government party (ie stealing factory supplies for themselves) and shops with empty shelves as a result. Socialism doesn't work because no one wants to spend the day working only for their efforts to be contributed equally among the public. People like to work for themselves and their own family, not for others whom they don't know. Socialism never has worked and never will.
Here is the side of Cuba their tourism department don't want you to see:
Perhaps JFK should not have cancelled that second airstrike afterall as the amphibious boats were about to land in Cuba.
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China is proving socialism does work. The CCP learned from the failures of the USSR.
Also, Cuba, which is under a US economic embargo, is not a good example to prove socialism doesn’t work. The economic embargo and sanctions, not socialism, are why they have shortages of certain goods.
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China is proving socialism does work. The CCP learned from the failures of the USSR.
Also, Cuba, which is under a US economic embargo, is not a good example to prove socialism doesn’t work. The economic embargo and sanctions, not socialism, are why they have shortages of certain goods.
I don't want to work for other people. Put me in a socialist country and see what good i am to the country.
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Lee Harvey Oswald by 1963 was not a Communist. His views sounded like typical Liberals of his time. He criticized American Racism and Capitalism but didn't view the USSR as the solution.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/parnell/ce2649.htm
http://22november1963.org.uk/lee-oswald-speech-in-alabama
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Lee Harvey Oswald by 1963 was not a Communist. His views sounded like typical Liberals of his time. He criticized American Racism and Capitalism but didn't view the USSR as the solution.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/parnell/ce2649.htm
http://22november1963.org.uk/lee-oswald-speech-in-alabama
I would not work in a socialist country. What's the point? Working for other people i don't know and will never meet? I would just claim benefits.
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Lee Harvey Oswald by 1963 was not a Communist. His views sounded like typical Liberals of his time. He criticized American Racism and Capitalism but didn't view the USSR as the solution.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/parnell/ce2649.htm
http://22november1963.org.uk/lee-oswald-speech-in-alabama
Lee was non political...... He espoused communism as a front, but that was in an effort to gain favor with Castro, and a way to gain access to Cuba. Just as he had penetrated the iron curtain in 1959.
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Lee was non political...... He espoused communism as a front, but that was in an effort to gain favor with Castro, and a way to gain access to Cuba. Just as he had penetrated the iron curtain in 1959.
Right. The FPCC stuff was most likely a charade.
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This is what the socialist utopia that Oswald died for looks like:
You'll notice that it suffers from the same problems that Oswald ran away from in Russia - corruption at the top of the government party (ie stealing factory supplies for themselves) and shops with empty shelves as a result. Socialism doesn't work because no one wants to spend the day working only for their efforts to be contributed equally among the public. People like to work for themselves and their own family, not for others whom they don't know. Socialism never has worked and never will.
Here is the side of Cuba their tourism department don't want you to see:
Perhaps JFK should not have cancelled that second airstrike afterall as the amphibious boats were about to land in Cuba.
LHO died as a result of Ruby taking justice into his own hands for two murders that LHO allegedly committed on 11/22/63.
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China is proving socialism does work. The CCP learned from the failures of the USSR.
Also, Cuba, which is under a US economic embargo, is not a good example to prove socialism doesn’t work. The economic embargo and sanctions, not socialism, are why they have shortages of certain goods.
China has not been a socialist country for many decades. It is a Capitalist economy. It is also a dictatorship.
China has the second most billionaires in the world. According to Forbes magazine:
1. US has 724 billionaires.
2. China has 626 billionaires.
3. India has 140 billionaires.
4. Germany has 136 billionaires.
These Chinese billionaires are not high party officials but businessmen. and I assume businesswomen, who own and run their own companies.
The party controls politics. But the party does not control the economy. The free market controls the economy in China.
Socialism only works if it is really Capitalism. And Capitalism doesn’t work if it is really Socialism.
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China has not been a socialist country for many decades. It is a Capitalist economy. It is also a dictatorship.
China has the second most billionaires in the world. According to Forbes magazine:
1. US has 724 billionaires.
2. China has 626 billionaires.
3. India has 140 billionaires.
4. Germany has 136 billionaires.
These Chinese billionaires are not high party officials but businessmen. and I assume businesswomen, who own and run their own companies.
The party controls politics. But the party does not control the economy. The free market controls the economy in China.
Socialism only works if it is really Capitalism. And Capitalism doesn’t work if it is really Socialism.
Sorry Joe, I completely disagree: the communist party, as I read things, absolutely controls the economy. The owners of the industries may be in private hands, owned by individuals; but they are only allowed to do only what the Party allow them to do.
Let's put it this way: Do you believe there's an independent judiciary that protects the property rights of businessmen and women and their privately owned businesses? If the Party wants to seize a business do you think that owners can go to a court and stop it? And a court will overrule the Party's wishes? I don't believe that's remotely possible. Is there an example of a Chinese court striking down an order by the Party? Overruling their authority? I think that is impossible in their system.
Remember that under the Nazis that industry was held by private individuals. But they were totally subservient to the state. It's quite similar.
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This is what the socialist utopia that Oswald died for looks like:
You'll notice that it suffers from the same problems that Oswald ran away from in Russia - corruption at the top of the government party (ie stealing factory supplies for themselves) and shops with empty shelves as a result. Socialism doesn't work because no one wants to spend the day working only for their efforts to be contributed equally among the public. People like to work for themselves and their own family, not for others whom they don't know. Socialism never has worked and never will.
Here is the side of Cuba their tourism department don't want you to see:
Perhaps JFK should not have cancelled that second airstrike afterall as the amphibious boats were about to land in Cuba.
'stealing factory supplies for themselves'
An old joke told in the Soviet Union wheelbarrow factories...
Every other Friday a guard at the wheelbarrow factory saw a worker coming out of the factory pushing a wheelbarrow packed with hay.
The guard searched inside the hay, found nothing and let the guy go. This ritual repeated over several years until a time when the guard was about to retire from the wheelbarrow factory.
When the guy pushing the wheelbarrow appeared at the gate he told him: “I know you are stealing something from the wheelbarrow factory. I am just about to retire and this is my last day here. I will not tell anybody, but, please, let me know what are you stealing from the wheelbarrow factory!”
The guy smiled and answered, “Oh, I am stealing the wheelbarrows.”
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I dont know what Oswald believed re communism socialism capitalism. I dont know why he wanted to assassinate JFK.
But i would like Marc Leishman to win on Sunday. And i like the yank whose name starts with Z.
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China has not been a socialist country for many decades. It is a Capitalist economy. It is also a dictatorship.
China has the second most billionaires in the world. According to Forbes magazine:
1. US has 724 billionaires.
2. China has 626 billionaires.
3. India has 140 billionaires.
4. Germany has 136 billionaires.
These Chinese billionaires are not high party officials but businessmen. and I assume businesswomen, who own and run their own companies.
The party controls politics. But the party does not control the economy. The free market controls the economy in China.
Socialism only works if it is really Capitalism. And Capitalism doesn’t work if it is really Socialism.
The Chinese government still embraces Marxism.
China has embraced some elements of Capitalism (Cuba too) but their economy is still centrally planned and heavily regulated.
They do not have a Free Market economy.
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The Chinese government still embraces Marxism.
China has embraced some elements of Capitalism (Cuba too) but their economy is still centrally planned and heavily regulated.
They do not have a Free Market economy.
That is why China is the world's only hope.
theusofa is death to all that is good.
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That is why China is the world's only hope.
theusofa is death to all that is good.
Anyone who feels that way is more than welcome to leave and let us know how things are elsewhere!
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Anyone who feels that way is more than welcome to leave and let us know how things are elsewhere!
U are fixated on what things are. I am looking at what things will be.
Theusofa, a constitution that thrives on winners & loozers, where the weak die, &, one day, theusofa will die.
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U are fixated on what things are. I am looking at what things will be.
Theusofa, a constitution that thrives on winners & loozers, where the weak die, &, one day, theusofa will die.
All of us die, not just the weak, it is inevitable. How we live our lives while we are here on earth is what matters. I hope you live well and prosper wherever you may be.
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All of us die, not just the weak, it is inevitable. How we live our lives while we are here on earth is what matters. I hope you live well and prosper wherever you may be.
It is inevitable that theusofa will die.
I dont want to prosper. I want the earth to prosper. And the main impediment to that is theusofa.
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It is inevitable that theusofa will die.
I dont want to prosper. I want the earth to prosper. And the main impediment to that is theusofa.
Whatever... ::)
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:D :D :D
Quality.
What's the point if you can't have a laugh.
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Whatever... ::)
It boils down to this. Did the earth suffer koz JFK had his brain blown away.
No, i dont think so. JFK gave us Vietnam. The nuclear arms race. etc.
Oswald was a hero.
Hickey should have gotten the Nobel Peace Prize.
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Sorry Joe, I completely disagree: the communist party, as I read things, absolutely controls the economy. The owners of the industries may be in private hands, owned by individuals; but they are only allowed to do only what the Party allow them to do.
Let's put it this way: Do you believe there's an independent judiciary that protects the property rights of businessmen and women and their privately owned businesses? If the Party wants to seize a business do you think that owners can go to a court and stop it? And a court will overrule the Party's wishes? I don't believe that's remotely possible. Is there an example of a Chinese court striking down an order by the Party? Overruling their authority? I think that is impossible in their system.
Remember that under the Nazis that industry was held by private individuals. But they were totally subservient to the state. It's quite similar.
Nazi Germany was a socialist dictatorship. The government determined what could and could not be manufactured and generally set quotas on the quantity on each product. It was a government-controlled economy, which is a big reason why their weapon production fell so far behind America’s.
The fact the Chinese government can seize a privately owned business at any time doesn’t matter, so long as they generally don’t. The government does not determine what products can or cannot be produced. It does not set the quantities. It does not set the prices of the goods that are sold within China or outside of China. It’s control of the economy is minimal.
A country is not socialist because it is a dictatorship and it can, any time it wants to, seize control of a company, or all companies, and institute a socialist economy. As long as it lets the free market reign, it is a capitalistic country.
And I should point out that supporters of socialism want to, desperately, point out an example of a successful socialist country. And generally, point to a “socialist” country that really isn’t. So, the Scandinavian countries are given as examples, even through they are really free market, capitalistic economies, with a high tax rate. A high tax rate does not make a socialist economy. A government-controlled economy where quantity of products produced and their prices are set by the government, not by the free market.
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It boils down to this. Did the earth suffer koz JFK had his brain blown away.
No, i dont think so. JFK gave us Vietnam. The nuclear arms race. etc.
Oswald was a hero.
Hickey should have gotten the Nobel Peace Prize.
I don’t know where you are getting these ideas from. But you are seriously misguided.
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I don’t know where you are getting these ideas from. But you are seriously misguided.
I was being a little tongue in cheek. But, seriously, we dont know what JFK might have done had he lived. Not much of any value i think. I dont know what Oswald was thinking. It was just an (almost sudden) silly suicidal action.
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I was being a little tongue in cheek. But, seriously, we dont know what JFK might have done had he lived. Not much of any value i think. I dont know what Oswald was thinking. It was just an (almost sudden) silly suicidal action.
I think your tongue was somewhere else. You should use some mouthwash now.
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I was being a little tongue in cheek. But, seriously, we dont know what JFK might have done had he lived. Not much of any value i think. I dont know what Oswald was thinking. It was just an (almost sudden) silly suicidal action.
There are some questions that can never be answered with any certainty. But we can have some better educated guesses if we learn what people who knew either JFK or LHO believe about them. There has been plenty written about both of them for us to absorb.
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Nazi Germany was a socialist dictatorship. The government determined what could and could not be manufactured and generally set quotas on the quantity on each product. It was a government-controlled economy, which is a big reason why their weapon production fell so far behind America’s.
The fact the Chinese government can seize a privately owned business at any time doesn’t matter, so long as they generally don’t. The government does not determine what products can or cannot be produced. It does not set the quantities. It does not set the prices of the goods that are sold within China or outside of China. It’s control of the economy is minimal.
A country is not socialist because it is a dictatorship and it can, any time it wants to, seize control of a company, or all companies, and institute a socialist economy. As long as it lets the free market reign, it is a capitalistic country.
And I should point out that supporters of socialism want to, desperately, point out an example of a successful socialist country. And generally, point to a “socialist” country that really isn’t. So, the Scandinavian countries are given as examples, even through they are really free market, capitalistic economies, with a high tax rate. A high tax rate does not make a socialist economy. A government-controlled economy where quantity of products produced and their prices are set by the government, not by the free market.
China is not purely socialist but they definitely don’t have a Free Market either.
They have a planned economy and heavy wealth redistribution. They’ve found ways to allow private business and property ownership within their system but they’re still proudly socialist.
In LHO’s time, China was still very poor and the USSR was a joke even to Oswald who ridiculed them.
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I think your tongue was somewhere else. You should use some mouthwash now.
:D
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:D
I think that it is a fair question to ask whether LHO (Hickey actually)(i think LHO's slug wasnt deadly) did us a favor.
What would the world be like if JFK lived?
Theusofa is based on having winners & loozers. The strong flourish, the weak die.
Well, that same system applies to countries.
Oswald praps wanted a usofa where there were no loozers (well, ok, one loozer).
But if theusofa dies then all are loozers.
Theusofa started with a lie, followed by the murder of natives, followed by war on Mexico.
Its a wonder that the sniper's nest wasnt crowded.
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China is not purely socialist but they definitely don’t have a Free Market either.
They have a planned economy and heavy wealth redistribution. They’ve found ways to allow private business and property ownership within their system but they’re still proudly socialist.
In LHO’s time, China was still very poor and the USSR was a joke even to Oswald who ridiculed them.
On the larger question, “Can a Socialist economy be successful”, we need an example on an economy that is socialist and successful. Showing an economy with some socialist control, but also a good deal of free enterprise is no good. How do we know their economic success was from the free enterprise aspects of their economy, and not the result of government control of the economy? How do we know their successes have occurred despite government interference, not because of them?
There are no examples of a successful socialist economy. Such a critter is as mythical as Bigfoot. All real socialist economies, like China’s before 1978, were failures.
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On the larger question, “Can a Socialist economy be successful”, we need an example on an economy that is socialist and successful. Showing an economy with some socialist control, but also a good deal of free enterprise is no good. How do we know their economic success was from the free enterprise aspects of their economy, and not the result of government control of the economy? How do we know their successes have occurred despite government interference, not because of them?
There are no examples of a successful socialist economy. Such a critter is as mythical as Bigfoot. All real socialist economies, like China’s before 1978, were failures.
Speaking of "...and successful."
October 1, to December 31, 2020, the final full quarter of the Trump oligarchy.:
https://treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/debttothepenny.htm
Federal Debt increase : Oct. 1 = $27 trillion Dec. 31 = $27.75 trillion
4th qtr. debt increase share of bottom 50 percent = $.37 trillion...personal wealth increase = $.13 trillion
Wealth increase :
Top 1 percent = $2.43 trillion
Next 9 percent = $2.47 trillion
Next 40 percent = $1.34 trillion
Bottom 50 percent = $.13 trillion (165 million residents)
https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/dataviz/dfa/distribute/chart/
2020 Fourth Qtr. Fed. Reserve Household Wealth Survey vs Third Qtr. -
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51112853673_aa636efa89_z.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51112702774_0fe1d0febf.jpg)
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On the larger question, “Can a Socialist economy be successful”, we need an example on an economy that is socialist and successful. Showing an economy with some socialist control, but also a good deal of free enterprise is no good. How do we know their economic success was from the free enterprise aspects of their economy, and not the result of government control of the economy? How do we know their successes have occurred despite government interference, not because of them?
There are no examples of a successful socialist economy. Such a critter is as mythical as Bigfoot. All real socialist economies, like China’s before 1978, were failures.
There are no purely Capitalist or Socialist economies. Every industrialized nation has a mixed economy. The US is Capitalist-leaning but has a broad social safety-net and financial regulations. China is Socialist-leaning but allows private ownership of businesses and engages in the Free Market outside of China.
However, the PRC today still self-identifies as "Marxist-Leninist". So if one wants to argue that "Socialism never works" they have to address China, Vietnam, Bolivia, and a handful of other countries where Socialist governments have successfully reduced poverty and created healthy economies...
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There are no purely Capitalist or Socialist economies. Every industrialized nation has a mixed economy. The US is Capitalist-leaning but has a broad social safety-net and financial regulations. China is Socialist-leaning but allows private ownership of businesses and engages in the Free Market outside of China.
However, the PRC today still self-identifies as "Marxist-Leninist". So if one wants to argue that "Socialism never works" they have to address China, Vietnam, Bolivia, and a handful of other countries where Socialist governments have successfully reduced poverty and created healthy economies...
It is irrelevant to me as to how a country self identifies itself. That fact is that all countries which have economic success own this to the allowing, at least to some extent, the operation of a free market.
Not all governments are a combination of Capitalist and Socialist economies. Before 1978, China was a pure Socialist economy and it failed totally to bring prosperity to its people.
Of course, China can’t identify itself as anything other than a “Marxist-Leninist” government. There have been too many decades of propaganda for them to identify themselves as anything else. Trump can “self-identify” himself as a Pro-Democracy politician who respects the principle of government of the people, by the people and for the people, but that doesn’t make him so. What governments and people “self-identify” themselves as does not matter to me.
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Natives all over the world have been socialist & communist & successful for thousands of years. The Australian aborigines for 50,000 years, until white man came.
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Not all governments are a combination of Capitalist and Socialist economies.
Name one industrialized country that doesn't have a mixed economy.
Of course, China can’t identify itself as anything other than a “Marxist-Leninist” government. There have been too many decades of propaganda for them to identify themselves as anything else. Trump can “self-identify” himself as a Pro-Democracy politician who respects the principle of government of the people, by the people and for the people, but that doesn’t make him so. What governments and people “self-identify” themselves as does not matter to me.
China decided to participate in the Global economy abroad but domestically, they are still governed by ideological Marxists.
Deng Xiaoping: Socialism with Chinese Characteristics
https://newlearningonline.com/new-learning/chapter-4/deng-xiaoping-socialism-with-chinese-characteristics
At the founding of the People’s Republic, we inherited from old China a ruined economy with virtually no industry. There was a shortage of grain, inflation was acute and the economy was in chaos. But we solved the problems of feeding and employing the population, stabilized commodity prices and unified financial and economic work, and the economy rapidly recovered. On this foundation we started large-scale reconstruction. What did we rely on? We relied on Marxism and socialism. Some people ask why we chose socialism. We answer that we had to, because capitalism would get China nowhere. If we had taken the capitalist road, we could not have put an end to the chaos in the country or done away with poverty and backwardness. That is why we have repeatedly declared that we shall adhere to Marxism and keep to the socialist road. But by Marxism we mean Marxism that is integrated with Chinese conditions, and by socialism we mean a socialism that is tailored to Chinese conditions and has a specifically Chinese character.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_of_living_in_China (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_of_living_in_China)
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I look at claims that China’s is an example of a Socialist country with a good economy as analogous to the following fable.
Initially there are men who claim we can fly like birds. If you run fast enough and flap your arms hard enough, a human can fly like a https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2006.0.html These believers were called “Flappers”. But they never got anywhere.
Then, people developed airplanes with fixed wings and propellers and people truly started to fly.
The flappers responded by putting two men in an airplane, the pilot in the front and the “Flapper” sitting behind him, vigorously flapping his arms. And they did fly successfully, And the people who supported the “Flapper” theory pointing out these flights as “proving” that “Flapping” can allow people to fly through the air, just as they claimed all along.
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I look at claims that China’s is an example of a Socialist country with a good economy as analogous to the following fable.
Initially there are men who claim we can fly like birds. If you run fast enough and flap your arms hard enough, a human can fly like a https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2006.0.html These believers were called “Flappers”. But they never got anywhere.
Then, people developed airplanes with fixed wings and propellers and people truly started to fly.
The flappers responded by putting two men in an airplane, the pilot in the front and the “Flapper” sitting behind him, vigorously flapping his arms. And they did fly successfully, And the people who supported the “Flapper” theory pointing out these flights as “proving” that “Flapping” can allow people to fly through the air, just as they claimed all along.
Excerpt from the article that I posted a couple of posts earlier in this thread:
“Since the 1990s there has been an increasing number of apartments built in China which remain empty. In 2010 approximately 65 million apartments, capable of housing some 250 million people, were unoccupied, due to there being too expensive for the majority of Chinese to purchase or rent.”
Empty apartments capable of housing 250 million people. That is over 3/4 of the current population of the United States for a perspective.
Yes, I agree Joe, much like flapping arms on the airplane and claiming that they can fly...
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Excerpt from the article that I posted a couple of posts earlier in this thread:
“Since the 1990s there has been an increasing number of apartments built in China which remain empty. In 2010 approximately 65 million apartments, capable of housing some 250 million people, were unoccupied, due to there being too expensive for the majority of Chinese to purchase or rent.”
Empty apartments capable of housing 250 million people. That is over 3/4 of the current population of the United States for a perspective.
Yes, I agree Joe, much like flapping arms on the airplane and claiming that they can fly...
Hence, Oswald should have learnt German & married a German girl, a fascist China would not have empty apartments.
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I look at claims that China’s is an example of a Socialist country with a good economy as analogous to the following fable.
Initially there are men who claim we can fly like birds. If you run fast enough and flap your arms hard enough, a human can fly like a https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2006.0.html These believers were called “Flappers”. But they never got anywhere.
Then, people developed airplanes with fixed wings and propellers and people truly started to fly.
The flappers responded by putting two men in an airplane, the pilot in the front and the “Flapper” sitting behind him, vigorously flapping his arms. And they did fly successfully, And the people who supported the “Flapper” theory pointing out these flights as “proving” that “Flapping” can allow people to fly through the air, just as they claimed all along.
Again, there are no purely socialist or capitalist countries.
China’s leaders identify as Marxist-Leninist but they’re pragmatic also and have permitted some Capitalism where it is practical.
America’s leaders identify as Capitalists but are pragmatic and allow some socialism, social welfare, and regulation of the business sector.
If China’s compromises prove pure Socialism doesn’t work than America’s compromises prove pure Capitalism doesn’t work.
Lastly, Oswald made his choice clear through his actions. He chose to return to the US after living in the USSR because he wasn’t a true believer in Communism. Some Americans, myself included, agree with many of the ideas of Marx with regard to his criticisms of Capitalism, but wouldn’t want to live in an authoritarian Communist country.