JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate => Topic started by: Joe Elliott on July 09, 2020, 05:25:38 AM
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A Simple Question in Physics
Question: How long does a “Target” accelerate when a bullet passes through it:
Answer 1: Only accelerates for 1 to 2 milliseconds.
Answer 2: Will continue to accelerate a good deal longer than 1 to 2 milliseconds.
The question and answers had to be made shorter, should really be:
Question: How long does a “Target” accelerate when a bullet passes through it, as a result of being struck by a bullet:
Answer 1: Only accelerates for 1 to 2 milliseconds, after which a simple target will travel at a constant velocity.
Answer 2: Will continue to accelerate a good deal longer than 1 to 2 milliseconds, long after the bullet has left the target.
A little background information.
The Conservation of Momentum is a basic law of Physics. When a bullet strikes an object, momentum is transferred from the bullet to the object. The object will be pushed in the same direction as the bullet. But the object will only gain velocity, will only gain momentum, while the bullet is within the object. Once the bullet has passed through the object, no more momentum is added. The speed of a simple target will be constant.
Velocity is the speed of an object (and its direction). Acceleration is the rate the Velocity changes (and its direction). So, if the velocity of an object is 5 feet per second, and the acceleration, in the same direction is 2 feet per second per second, at Time 0 seconds, the velocity is 5 fps, at Time 1 seconds, the velocity is 7 fps, at Time 2 seconds, the velocity is 9 fps, etc.
A bullet will pass through the target object within 1 to 2 milliseconds. The target will receive a “jolt” but won’t continue to accelerate once the bullet leaves the target.
Assume other forces, like the acceleration of the limousine, are insignificant. Because the limousine’s acceleration was very small and insignificant.
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Real life isn't Hollywood, these soldiers are all shot in the head with fmj bullets and no one is violently thrown forward, they just fall down and move back towards the shooters.
(https://i.postimg.cc/59rxV5gz/Menshotinheadfallback1-zpsd2fc7371.gif)
JohnM
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Real life isn't Hollywood, these soldiers are all shot in the head with fmj bullets and no one is violently thrown forward, they just fall down and move back towards the shooters.
(https://i.postimg.cc/59rxV5gz/Menshotinheadfallback1-zpsd2fc7371.gif)
JohnM
Yes. My point is that the President’s head accelerates backwards over a period of a quarter second, which is not in accordance to simple physics, as CTers claim. If this was simple physics, all the momentum would be transferred in 1 to 2 milliseconds, after which the head would move backwards at a constant speed, or indeed, would slow down, when the same amount of momentum had to start pushing back both the head and the torso.
This constant acceleration shows that something else has to be involved. And its not the acceleration of the limousine. It can only be the muscles of the President that is causing this backwards acceleration.
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Yes. My point is that the President’s head accelerates backwards over a period of a quarter second, which is not in accordance to simple physics, as CTers claim. If this was simple physics, all the momentum would be transferred in 1 to 2 milliseconds, after which the head would move backwards at a constant speed, or indeed, would slow down, when the same amount of momentum had to start pushing back both the head and the torso.
This constant acceleration shows that something else has to be involved. And its not the acceleration of the limousine. It can only be the muscles of the President that is causing this backwards acceleration.
Yep, you're right but I meant to put my above response in another thread.
JohnM
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You can find execution films that show the opposite of what the Mytton's films show, that show bodies moving away from the rifle/in the same direction as the bullet(s):
More could be cited.
You can cherry-pick videos all day, but your defense of the nonsensical jet-effect theory is not worth the time of day until you address the scientific objections to the theory raised by physicists, ballistics experts, forensic pathologists, and other scholars.
I might add that virtually all of the strapping-tape-wrapped melons in Alvarez's experiments were knocked away from the shooter, in the same direction the bullet was traveling. Dr. Art Snyder, then a physicist at Stanford University, conducted his own experiments and found that Newton's laws still worked.
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You can find execution films that show the opposite of what the Mytton's films show, that show bodies moving away from the rifle/in the same direction as the bullet(s):
WOW!, How do you figure that 1 man being shot with the force of 6 rifles is any way similar to what happened in Dealey Plaza? But anyway let's have a look at which way the man reacts to being shot with the force of 6 rifles and what do you know, the man shows no initial rearward movement and his upper torso falls back towards the shooters. Try again.
(https://i.postimg.cc/nhsQpFBV/man-shot-cuba.gif)
(https://i.postimg.cc/MKGSFtjV/6-men-firing-squad.jpg)
JohnM
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Are you sure they are being shot in the head? Firing squads aim for the heart in many cases. Looking at old photos it is about 50/50. They often put a mark there as a target. It is said the heart shot kills quicker than a head shot. In John Mytton's first film(The sepia film)the rifleman closest to the camera is not pointing the rifle at the head but at the chest.
How the head moves as a standing person collapses is largely due to how the knees and the waist go limp. When the knees give out the torso falls back which causes the head to rock forward. When and if they bend at the waist the head rocks forward. The timing of the knees vs the waist varies and and has a huge effect on the head movement. Because the way the body crumples when shot I don't think footage of standing victims falling is of much value, but I don't think this firing squad is aiming at the head anyway.
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Are you sure they are being shot in the head? Firing squads aim for the heart in many cases. Looking at old photos it is about 50/50. They often put a mark there as a target. It is said the heart shot kills quicker than a head shot. In the film the rifleman closest to the camera is not pointing the rifle at the head but at the chest.
How the head moves as a standing person collapses is largely due to how the knees and the waist go limp. When the knees give out the torso falls back which causes the head to rock forward. When and if they bend at the waist the head rocks forward. The timing of the knees vs the waist varies and and has a huge effect on the head movement. Because the way the body crumples when shot I don't think footage of standing victims falling is of much value, but I don't think this firing squad is aiming at the head anyway.
By plotting the resulting matter being expelled from the area from the top of the man's torso, I agree with you and that why I never referenced to the man being shot in the head but for the sake of argument we are still dealing with the same force or potentially six time as much force being applied to the man's upper body and in no way do we see the man being violently flung backwards.
Whereas in the first GIF above I uploaded, the first man is definitely struck in the head.
(https://i.postimg.cc/C1TRY9VR/man-shot-in-head.gif)
JohnM
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I was talking about your post from 5:40 AM when you showed a group of men being shot and said they were "shot in the head"
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I was talking about your post from 5:40 AM when you showed a group of men being shot and said they were "shot in the head"
The first man closest to the camera in the GIF you referenced is definitely struck in the head and his head's forward movement is about equal to what we see in Zapruder.
(https://i.postimg.cc/C1TRY9VR/man-shot-in-head.gif)
JohnM
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Real life isn't Hollywood, these soldiers are all shot in the head with fmj bullets and no one is violently thrown forward, they just fall down and move back towards the shooters.
(https://i.postimg.cc/59rxV5gz/Menshotinheadfallback1-zpsd2fc7371.gif)
JohnM
I was talking about your post from 5:40 AM when you showed a group of men being shot and said they were "shot in the head"
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The first man in the GIF you referenced is definitely struck in the head and his forward movement is about equal to what we see in Zapruder.
(https://i.postimg.cc/C1TRY9VR/man-shot-in-head.gif)
JohnM
No that is his hat flying off his head. Saw a person get hit by a car once and their shoes flew off due to the force the torso received.
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Just draw a line along the rifle and extend it to the victim. You will see he aimed at the chest. The camera is at almost 90 degrees to the trajectory of the bullet and the direction the rifle is pointing. So the perspective is accurate, the rifleman is aiming at the chest.
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No that is his hat flying off his head. Saw a person get hit by a car once and their shoes flew off due to the force the torso received.
There is many more shooters as compared to men being killed and I agree that the first shooter closest to the camera appears to be firing a little low but the rest seem to be all firing at the men's heads. Btw the kinetic energy of an 11 gram bullet is a little different to a 1000+ kg car.
(https://i.postimg.cc/59rxV5gz/Menshotinheadfallback1-zpsd2fc7371.gif)
JohnM
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"The rest"? You can only see two of the rifles the rest is a blur. The 2nd darker one has a higher angle compared to the first but if you trace its direction to the victim it also hits below the head. That 2nd darker image of a rifle is from the 3rd or fourth shooter in line. Trace the trajectory to the 3rd or 4th victim and both hit below the head. The 3rd victim is either taller or on a slight rise. If you trace the tops of the victims heads it illustrates the shrinking vanishing point while showing that 3rd victim is higher or taller than the others.
But the fact remains that when shot in a standing position the knees and waist dictate much of the head movement.
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"The rest"? You can only see two of the rifles the rest is a blur. The 2nd darker one has a higher angle compared to the first but if you trace its direction to the victim it also hits below the head. That 2nd darker image of a rifle is from the 3rd or fourth shooter in line. Trace the trajectory to the 3rd or 4th victim and both hit below the head. The 3rd victim is either taller or on a slight rise. If you trace the tops of the victims heads it illustrates the shrinking vanishing point while showing that 3rd victim is higher or taller than the others.
But the fact remains that when shot in a standing position the knees and waist dictate much of the head movement.
With so many shooters how do you know which man was being shot by the 2nd shooter? Here's the angle a split second before the shots(the yellow line) to the men's heart's(the red line) which imo would be dramatically less but anyway here's a graphic where I think the rifles are pointed as compared to where the men's hearts would be.
(https://i.postimg.cc/rmtjhDSv/men-shot-in-heart-or-head.gif)
(https://i.postimg.cc/3xTghL2f/men-shot-in-head-or-heart.gif)
JohnM
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Rather than reinvent the wheel, please see my reply in my thread on JFK's backward head movement and the neurospasm and jet-effect theories:
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2623.msg93359.html#msg93359
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Real life isn't Hollywood, these soldiers are all shot in the head with fmj bullets and no one is violently thrown forward, they just fall down and move back towards the shooters.
(https://i.postimg.cc/59rxV5gz/Menshotinheadfallback1-zpsd2fc7371.gif)
JohnM
The red line in your last post made no sense to me but I will say it is possible some of the shots, other than the closest shooter, went to the head. So it is possible for a head not to be thrust forward from a rear shot. In some cases the head will move forward and in other circumstances it does not. When the knees buckle it can cause the torso to tilt backwards but most of the victims torso's in the film stay straight till they fall to the ass. A possibility is that the forward motion imparted by the bullet was countered by the backward tilt of the torso. This is a rabbit hole and I will leave it to ballistic experts because I don't have a problem with the forward head movement issue.
But I have always had a problem with using standing victims to illustrate head movement. You say they fall backward toward the shooter. Are you trying to support the rear movement of JFK's head with those victims falling backward after landing on their butts?
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I am not surprised that CTers do not answer this question, but I am surprised that LNers don’t either, even those who made posts here.
A bullet will “push” a target, like a head. That is why the President’s head moves forward during z312-z313. The bullet only takes 1 to 2 milliseconds to pass through the head, after which, the bullet, or its fragments, continue on.
Does this acceleration, this push, only last for 1 to 2 milliseconds? Or does it last for a lot longer, like 200 to 250 milliseconds, continuing to push the head after the bullet has left?
Please vote on an answer.
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I am not surprised that CTers do not answer this question, but I am surprised that LNers don’t either, even those who made posts here.
A bullet will “push” a target, like a head. That is why the President’s head moves forward during z312-z313. The bullet only takes 1 to 2 milliseconds to pass through the head, after which, the bullet, or its fragments, continue on.
Does this acceleration, this push, only last for 1 to 2 milliseconds? Or does it last for a lot longer, like 200 to 250 milliseconds, continuing to push the head after the bullet has left?
Please vote on an answer.
but I am surprised that LNers don’t either, even those who made posts here.
Hi Joe, I already agreed with you and I have now voted. Thumb1:
JohnM
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I would like to add a comment that includes pictures but I don't see any way to do it. Could someone plus give me a one minute block of instruction on how to do it, thanks.
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I would like to add a comment that includes pictures but I don't see any way to do it. Could someone plus give me a one minute block of instruction on how to do it, thanks.
If a webpage has a picture you want to show, just bracket by leading with the 5 letters “(http://”, immediately followed by the 6 letters “)”, with the webpage in-between. Don’t include the quotes and I do not add any spaces.
Then, before posting, instead of clicking “Post”, click “Preview” to see if it works.
If you cannot get “” to work, try “”…” (http://”…”)”. People will have to click on the click to see it, but it is another option. Often only “”…” (http://”…”)” is the only option for large webpages.
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I would like to add a comment that includes pictures but I don't see any way to do it. Could someone plus give me a one minute block of instruction on how to do it, thanks.
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,299.0.html (https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,299.0.html)
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Thanks but what if it's a picture on my computer?
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Go to “imgbb.com” – ImbBB – Upload Image – Free Image Hosting.
Create an account for yourself. As I recall they take your email address and immediately email which will give you instructions how out to pick an account name and a password. It costs nothing.
Once you have an account, it would be best to create an “Album” like “JFK Assassination” and then upload the file on your computer to the server. I think you should set its properties to public.
Once uploaded, it will give you some filename like:
https://ibb.co/RandomFileName
And you put into your post:
[img]https://ibb.co/RandomFileName[/imb]
It takes some figuring but it’s doable. Write down you account name and password so you can go back to it.
No pornographic images, no images which insult any of the members of this forum or Scotland allowed.
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Most witnesses heard BANG ... ... ... BANG ... BANG.
“There was a longer pause between the first and second shots than there was between the second and third shots,” testified mayor Earle Cabell
Senator Ralph Yarborough recalled, “ . . . to me there seemed to be a long time between the first and second shots, a much shorter time between the second and third shots.”
Which it seems to me is fairly accurately portrayed in the Zapruder film. A shot from behind, momentarily moving the head forwards, and another shot from the fence/wall location sending the head backwards/to the left.
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Most witnesses heard BANG ... ... ... BANG ... BANG.
“There was a longer pause between the first and second shots than there was between the second and third shots,” testified mayor Earle Cabell
Senator Ralph Yarborough recalled, “ . . . to me there seemed to be a long time between the first and second shots, a much shorter time between the second and third shots.”
Which it seems to me is fairly accurately portrayed in the Zapruder film. A shot from behind, momentarily moving the head forwards, and another shot from the fence/wall location sending the head backwards/to the left.
CECIL AULT, Deputy District Court Clerk, Dallas District Court, 505 Main Street, advised that on November 22, 1963 he had put up the shades of the windows in the courtroom of Judge HENRY KING, Dallas District Court, in order to look through the windows onto Main Street to observe the Presidential motorcade as it came down Main Street. Mr. AULT observed the president pass the courthouse on Main Steet turning onto Houston and observed the President's automobile as it moved down Houston to the intersecton of Houston and Elm Streets where the Presidential motorcade turned the corner onto Elm Street. Mr. AULT heard three loud reports which Mr. AULT immediately recognized as shots from a high-powered rifle. He noted that the first and second shots sounded to him close together and the third shot was spaced more after the second shot, the first two shots sounding close enough to be from an automatic rifle. Mr. ULT could not tell from what direction the rifle shots came.
BREHM said that a third shot followed and that all three shots were relatively close together. BREHM stated that he was in military service and he has had experience with bolt-action rifles, and he expressed the opinion that the three shots were fired just about as quickly as an individual can maneuver a bolt-action rifle, take aim, and fire three shots.
Mr. CABELL - Well, I would put it this way. That approximately 10 seconds elapsed between the first and second shots, with not more than 5 seconds having elapsed until the third one.
Mr. BELIN - And what's your best recollection now as to the amount of time between shots?
Mr. COUCH - Well, I would say the longest time would be 5 seconds, but it could be from 3 to 5.
Mr. BELIN - And would this be true between the first and the second shots as well as between the second and the third - or would there have been a difference?
Mr. COUCH - As I recall, the time sequence between the three were relatively the same.
Mr. BELIN - The shots seemed to be how far apart?
Mr. FISCHER - That's hard to say. I've been thinking about that. And--uh--I'd guess--3 to 4 seconds.
Mr. BELIN - Was that between the first and the second or between the second and the third?
Mr. FISCHER - Between both. As far as I can remember, the shots were evenly paced.
JohnM
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Thanks very much!
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Most witnesses heard BANG ... ... ... BANG ... BANG.
“There was a longer pause between the first and second shots than there was between the second and third shots,” testified mayor Earle Cabell
Senator Ralph Yarborough recalled, “ . . . to me there seemed to be a long time between the first and second shots, a much shorter time between the second and third shots.”
Which it seems to me is fairly accurately portrayed in the Zapruder film. A shot from behind, momentarily moving the head forwards, and another shot from the fence/wall location sending the head backwards/to the left.
This has been well established. There was an "echo" on the head shot for some reason. And obviously Oswald could not have fired two shots in such rapid succession.
Its never been explained why there was an "echo" on the head shot but not on any of the other shots.
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This has been well established. There was an "echo" on the head shot for some reason. And obviously Oswald could not have fired two shots in such rapid succession.
Its never been explained why there was an "echo" on the head shot but not on any of the other shots.
There is at least one rather good explanation. “Crack-Thump”.
A supersonic bullet does not make one noise. It makes two. “Crack-Thump”.
Interruption: Yes, but why not “Crack-Thump . . . Crack-Thump . . . Crack-Thump”.
Answer: I’ll get to that.
The “Crack” is from the supersonic bullet. The “Thump” is from the muzzle blast. The “Crack” travel’s most of the way, if an observer is near the trajectory of the bullet, like along the street, as most witnesses were, at the speed of the bullet, an average speed of 2,000 feet per second. The “Thump” travels at a slower speed, the speed of sound, 1,125 feet per second.
For the first shot, at a distance of 130 feet, the bullet will arrive after (velocity = distance / time, and time = distance / velocity) 130 / 2000 or 65 milliseconds. An observer may hear it shortly after that.
The muzzle blast travels 130 feet in 113 milliseconds. The difference is 48 milliseconds.
If one does the math, one finds that the theoretical time difference between the “Crack” and the “Thump” is:
First shot at z153: 48 milliseconds.
Second shot at z222: 70 milliseconds.
Third shot at z313: 98 milliseconds.
The delay between the “Crack” and the “Thump” is twice as long for the third shot than it is for the first shot. And a good deal longer for the third shot compared to the second.
Now, the exact delay will depend on the location of each witness, and will vary from witness to witness. But in general, the interval between the “Crack and the “Thump” will be greatest for the third shot. So, it may be that for the first and second shots, the “Crack” and the “Thump” arrived too close to each other to distinguish them as two separate sounds. But the third could be distinguished as two separate sounds.
Another factor is the alertness of the witnesses. After the second shot, when both the President and Governor were wounded, most witnesses did not realize that shots had been fired. Most continued clapping their hands, as can be seen in the Zapruder film. So, they might ignore the detail of what might be a backfire, like whether it was a “bang” or “bang-bang” as they concentrated on their few seconds of seeing the President and First Lady close at hand. But the third shot, with the head explosion, may cause them to become instantly alert and remember with more detail the sounds that had just occurred.
Finally, while there was an extra sound with the first shot, striking the street, there was no extra sound with the second bullet, which passed through mostly the soft tissue of the President and the Governor. In contrast, the third shot had extra sounds caused by:
• The shot hitting at almost 1900 feet per second the skull.
• The sound of a fragment hitting the windshield.
• The sound of another fragment hitting the chrome windshield frame.
So, there are some extra possibilities why a witness might be more likely to mistake the third shot as two shots occurring almost together.
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My take on it is he was hit simultaneously by two bullets to the head, one from the front and one from the back. I recall seeing on one of the threads that showed the inside of the skull with fragment spray in two areas of the skull, front and back.
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So, there are some extra possibilities why a witness might be more likely to mistake the third shot as two shots occurring almost together.
Wouldn't that witness have heard more than three of these sounds then?
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Reading the witness statements I was impressed how knowledgeable Texans are about guns and ballistics. Many of them noted the difference between the shock wave and muzzle blast. The majority of the witnesses only heard three shots even though each shot created 2 sounds. If echos or other sounds had caused confusion we would not have the majority reporting 3 shots in total.
Officer Smith was standing at the East side of the Elm/Houston intersection and heard many echos. It was likely the echos bouncing Eastward between the building along Elm. Two other witnesses in the courthouse facing Main St also heard multiple echos also likely to be sound bouncing Eastward down Main St.
One of the SS agents in the Queen Mary said they was a very loud echo from the underpass at the 3rd shot. He stated that the echo made it hard to determine the direction of the shot. However this could be a separate single shot from the knoll not an echo.
So a few people heard echos based on their location yet the majority heard only three shots. I think the witnesses being educated on firearms could be why they did not report more than 3 shots.
If there was a 4th shot it could have easily occurred so close to the 3rd shot that most would not recognize it as a separate shot. The knoll is about 300 feet from the TSB and the south knoll is about 600 feet from the TSB. So if 2 shots were fired within 1/3 of a second there would be locations in the plaza where the witnesses would have heard those two shot as one. If two shots happened simultaneously then the witnesses located 1/2 way between the 2 shots would hear them as one.
I think witnesses in the limo had the advantage of hearing the round come zinging into the limo and also heard the rounds land. So when Kellerman said the last rounds came in "as a flurry of rounds" (He conceded that the "Flurry" could have been just 2 rounds, but they are still too close together to be from the bolt action Carcano) and Greer Used the term "Almost simultaneously". it is compelling evidence of the last two shots being almost simultaneous.
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Counting shots again:
1. Ricochet bullet off the pavement frags hitting JFK in the back of the head. Witnessed by a bookkeeper from the TSBD and several others. JFK said “my god, I’ve been hit”. Maybe frame 214 behind the sign.
2. JFK front throat wound – judged an entry wound by a nurse with considerable experience which had to have come from the front. This is behind the sign. Maybe frame 223
3. JFK back wound –at which time he leans forward grabbing his chest. Maybe frame 260
4. Grassy knoll JFK head shot – so many witnesses said a bullet came from the grassy knoll. Maybe frame 313
5. JFK Hickey head shot – Jean Hill saw men in plain clothes shooting back. I think 4 & 5 were almost simultaneous, thus the echo? Connolly starts to turn back around while JFK is holding his throat. Then JFK lowers his hands to his chest, Connolly is almost straight forward and JFK gets hit in the head. Maybe frame 313.
6. Connelly back wound – If you study the Z film Connolly is still turning, hat in hand, when JFK’s head explodes. He wouldn’t be holding his hat with a shattered wrist. Connolly testified that he was complexly turned around and about to turn and look over his left shoulder when he was hit. Maybe frame 324.
Watch the Z film in slow motion and see for yourself
So with JFK grabbing his throat in maybe frame 223 and Connolly getting hit in the back at about frame 324 there are 100 frames that had elapsed between both shots. So they did not get hit by the same bullet.
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Counting shots again:
1. Ricochet bullet off the pavement frags hitting JFK in the back of the head. Witnessed by a bookkeeper from the TSBD and several others. JFK said “my god, I’ve been hit”. Maybe frame 214 behind the sign.
2. JFK front throat wound – judged an entry wound by a nurse with considerable experience which had to have come from the front. This is behind the sign. Maybe frame 223
3. JFK back wound –at which time he leans forward grabbing his chest. Maybe frame 260
4. Grassy knoll JFK head shot – so many witnesses said a bullet came from the grassy knoll. Maybe frame 313
5. JFK Hickey head shot – Jean Hill saw men in plain clothes shooting back. I think 4 & 5 were almost simultaneous, thus the echo? Connolly starts to turn back around while JFK is holding his throat. Then JFK lowers his hands to his chest, Connolly is almost straight forward and JFK gets hit in the head. Maybe frame 313.
6. Connelly back wound – If you study the Z film Connolly is still turning, hat in hand, when JFK’s head explodes. He wouldn’t be holding his hat with a shattered wrist. Connolly testified that he was complexly turned around and about to turn and look over his left shoulder when he was hit. Maybe frame 324.
Watch the Z film in slow motion and see for yourself
So with JFK grabbing his throat in maybe frame 223 and Connolly getting hit in the back at about frame 324 there are 100 frames that had elapsed between both shots. So they did not get hit by the same bullet.
Do you have some actual evidence to back up these ideas?
If so, please produce.
Thx.
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3. JFK back wound –at which time he leans forward grabbing his chest. Maybe frame 260
The back wound has to be an upper back wound. This is because Kennedy was sitting down when he was shot. The bullet couldn't get low enough to hit Kennedy in the middle or low back.
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I agree, but that bullet did not exit his body and hit Connolly, timing is all wrong.
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The back wound has to be an upper back wound. This is because Kennedy was sitting down when he was shot. The bullet couldn't get low enough to hit Kennedy in the middle or low back.
Rubbish.
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Ray, why do you say "rubbish"?
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Ray, why do you say "rubbish"?
I withdraw my comment as I mis read his post. My bad.
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John, Sorry for the late reply, I thought I had already posted this.
"Do you have some actual evidence to back up these ideas?
If so, please produce.
Thx."
1 – Part of the testimony of Mrs. Donald Baker (Virgie Rachley) Employee, TSBD
Mr. LIEXELEB So you were standing in front of the Texas School Book Depository Building and on the same side of Elm Street that the Texas School Book Depository is located?
Mrs. BAKEB. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELEB. Tell me what you saw?
Mrs. BAKER. Well, after he passed us, then we heard a noise and I thought it was firecrackers, because I saw a shot or something hit the pavement.
Mr. LIEXELEB. And you heard that immediately after the first noise; is that right?
Mrs. BAKEE. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Could you tell or did you have any idea where the noise came from when you first heard it?
Mrs. BAKER. No; I thought there were some boys standing down there where he was-where the President’s car was. Mr. LIEZBELER. Down farther on the street, you mean?
Mrs. BAKEB. Yes ; close to the underpass.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh7/pdf/WH7_Baker.pdf
Kellerman heard JFK say “my god, I have been hit” he looked back and saw JFK with his hand up to the right side of his head WC vol II, pg 73 https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh2/pdf/WH2_Kellerman.pdf
2. Still looking for where I found this, I did find another nurse who said it was a large exit wound. That’s what his neck looked like after the tracheotomy so I am wondering the timing of the two nurses and what they saw when. Also if the throat wound was an entry wound it could possibly be the same bullet that hit the windshield. If it was, then there was another shooter on the other side of Commerce St in a parking lot. I am still digging on this.
3. - JFK back wound – This isn’t great proof but it is a picture of a bullet hole in JFK’s back. And watching the Z film you see where JFK drops his hands from his neck to his chest, why would he do this? Most people would have kept their hands on their throat.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/zimmerman/frontmenu_000003.htm
4 – Grassy knoll shot – The only evidence I have is all the witnesses that said a shot came from there and that someone saw a puff of smoke behind the bushes. And it’s my belief, at this point, that this was a frontal head shot
Dr. Robert McClelland saw JFK’s wounds up close on November 22, 1963. “That bullet came from the grassy knoll, the picket fence,” McClelland said of the fatal shot, referring to the area in front of the presidential motorcade at the moment the shots rang out.
https://jfkfacts.org/rip-dr-robert-mcclelland-the-most-important-jfk-witness/
5 – Hickey head shot – We have a dozen witnesses that saw Hickey with the gun and some thought he had fired it. Also about another dozen witnesses that smelled gun smoke in the motorcade. And of course the cover up, why cover it up if they didn’t do anything?
6 – Connolly back wound – We know he was shot in the back and all you have to do is watch the Z film in slow motion and you can see the bullet that went through JFK’s back/neck did not hit Connolly; the shots were 100 frames apart. In fact the head shot was before Connolly got hit.
From WC: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/conn_j.htm
Mr. SPECTER. As the automobile turned left onto Elm from Houston, what did occur there, Governor?
Governor CONNALLY. We had--we had gone, I guess, 150 feet, maybe 200 feet, I don't recall how far it was, heading down to get on the freeway, the Stemmons Freeway, to go out to the hall where we were going to have lunch and, as I say, the crowds had begun to thin, and we could--I was anticipating that we were going to be at the hall in approximately 5 minutes from the time we turned on Elm Street.
We had just made the turn, well, when I heard what I thought was a shot. I heard this noise which I immediately took to be a rifle shot. I instinctively turned to my right because the sound appeared to come from over my right
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shoulder, so I turned to look back over my right shoulder, and I saw nothing unusual except just people in the crowd, but I did not catch the President in the corner of my eye, and I was interested, because once I heard the shot in my own mind I identified it as a rifle shot, and I immediately--the only thought that crossed my mind was that this is an assassination attempt.
So I looked, failing to see him, I was turning to look back over my left shoulder into the back seat, but I never got that far in my turn. I got about in the position I am in now facing you, looking a little bit to the left of center, and then I felt like someone had hit me in the back.
Mr. SPECTER. What is the best estimate that you have as to the time span between the sound of the first shot and the feeling of someone hitting you in the back which you just described?
Governor CONNALLY. A very, very brief span of time. Again my trend of thought just happened to be, I suppose along this line, I immediately thought that this--that I had been shot. I knew it when I just looked down and I was covered with blood, and the thought immediately passed through my mind that there were either two or three people involved or more in this or someone was shooting with an automatic rifle. These were just thoughts that went through my mind because of the rapidity of these two, of the first shot plus the blow that I took, and I knew I had been hit, and I immediately assumed, because of the amount of blood, and in fact, that it had obviously passed through my chest. that I had probably been fatally hit.
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John, more on the throat wound.
A nurse, Miss Henchliffe was in the emergency room with JFK and she said it was an entrance wound. Also a doctor, Ronald Coy Jones, also said it was and entrance wound. You can read their testimonies here http://grandsubversion.com/jfkAssassination/jfk_testimony_document_report/medical/parkland_hospital/head_throat_description.htm#parkland_throat
There are testimonies from others that were not as sure as Miss Henchchliffe or Dr Jones and they said it could have been an exit wound but they don’t sound as experienced as Henchchliffe or Jones.