JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Gerry Down on April 19, 2020, 02:20:20 PM
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Dale Myers' book is self published and sells for like $65. That sounds like he makes a nice profit, probably $50 on each book sale.
Judy Vary Baker is going strong at JFK conferences and numerous books. Don't know how many books she's actually sold though. But she probably makes a nice bit speaking at JFK conferences.
Are any of these people millionaires do you think?
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Dale Myers' book is self published and sells for like $65. That sounds like he makes a nice profit, probably $50 on each book sale.
Judy Vary Baker is going strong at JFK conferences and numerous books. Don't know how many books she's actually sold though. But she probably makes a nice bit speaking at JFK conferences.
Are any of these people millionaires do you think?
Well, Bugliosi was. He got a million in advance for his book!
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Well, Bugliosi was. He got a million in advance for his book!
But spent like 15 years writing the book. Plus paid two writers to help him.
Wouldn't he have made more just working as a lawyer?
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But spent like 15 years writing the book. Plus paid two writers to help him.
Wouldn't he have made more just working as a lawyer?
He will have had his reasons for doing what he did. I just answered your question.
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He will have had his reasons for doing what he did. I just answered your question.
No you didn't. What were his reasons?
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But spent like 15 years writing the book. Plus paid two writers to help him.
Wouldn't he have made more just working as a lawyer?
He wasn't a JFK expert. That's why he needed 2 ghost writers and it took him 20 yrs.
Nice door stop though.
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He wasn't a JFK expert. That's why he needed 2 ghost writers and it took him 20 yrs.
Nice door stop though.
I doubt that book sold too many copies though. I'd say whoever gave him the million dollars upfront payment lost their money.
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But spent like 15 years writing the book. Plus paid two writers to help him.
Wouldn't he have made more just working as a lawyer?
It took 20 years. Name the writers. Cite the advance.
He said he would have made more money in his practice.
Bugliosi's secretary writes about 'ghostwriter' charges in email to McAdams
https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/alt.assassination.jfk/-9Vhge48avE
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He wasn't a JFK expert. That's why he needed 2 ghost writers and it took him 20 yrs.
Nice door stop though.
Are you an actual JFK expert, or just a self-appointed 'expert' like the rest of your species..
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Are you an actual JFK expert, or just a self-appointed 'expert' like the rest of your species..
Define "JFK expert"?
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I doubt that book sold too many copies though. I'd say whoever gave him the million dollars upfront payment lost their money.
I got my copy from a bargain bin a couple years later for 20 bucks, I think.
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No you didn't. What were his reasons?
You asked if how much JFK experts make.... I answered that question.
You did not ask what Bugliosi's reasons were, and even if you did, I wouldn't know.
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But spent like 15 years writing the book. Plus paid two writers to help him.
Wouldn't he have made more just working as a lawyer?
Vince Bugliosi was known across this entire country for prosecuting Charlie Manson. The Mansion Trial received national nightly airplay across the country which made him an extremely well known quantity. He also wrote the heralded "Helter Skelter" upon which a TV Movie was also based. This was all done BEFORE his JFK book. By the time he wrote/got into the JFK Assassination, Bugliosi was money in the bank.
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There are plenty of articles out there about Vince's unethical tactics he used during the Manson case. He's the one that pretty much spinned the case into Manson being some kind of god-like leader to his followers. The true case behind Manson was he was a failed musician who thought Doris Day's son stood him up about working in the music industry, and the son actually lived in the house prior to Tate living there. Then Manson knew where the LiBianca's lived because he attended a party prior to their murder. The party house was I think facing the back yard of the LiBianca house. So much for Vince's story spin. Of course his book made him a household name so lending his name to the JFK book was going to give it great importance.
But about the Kennedy book, I read that Dale Myers was one of the ghostwriters of the book and had some kind of falling out with Vince. So there you go - a former CTer turned LNer who passed off an absolutely ridiculous and lying cartoon to the public back in the 00's about why his cartoon "proves" the LN theory. If you don't believe me, enjoy this funny review about it here on Speers' site:
http://www.patspeer.com/chapter12c:animania
Anyone who thinks Kennedy looked like that with a giraffe neck would have to be truly gullible. But Myers is one on those writers who helped the millionaire write his saga about Dallas. I tried finding all of the links to all of this on the Kennedys and King site but that site sucks with being able to find stuff. But it's there so look it up.
To Bill Chapman - instead of asking others to cite things, which is a very lazy thing, why don't you roll up your sleeves and find things yourself?
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There are plenty of articles out there about Vince's unethical tactics he used during the Manson case. He's the one that pretty much spinned the case into Manson being some kind of god-like leader to his followers. The true case behind Manson was he was a failed musician who thought Doris Day's son stood him up about working in the music industry, and the son actually lived in the house prior to Tate living there. Then Manson knew where the LiBianca's lived because he attended a party prior to their murder. The party house was I think facing the back yard of the LiBianca house. So much for Vince's story spin. Of course his book made him a household name so lending his name to the JFK book was going to give it great importance.
But about the Kennedy book, I read that Dale Myers was one of the ghostwriters of the book and had some kind of falling out with Vince. So there you go - a former CTer turned LNer who passed off an absolutely ridiculous and lying cartoon to the public back in the 00's about why his cartoon "proves" the LN theory. If you don't believe me, enjoy this funny review about it here on Speers' site:
http://www.patspeer.com/chapter12c:animania
Anyone who thinks Kennedy looked like that with a giraffe neck would have to be truly gullible. But Myers is one on those writers who helped the millionaire write his saga about Dallas. I tried finding all of the links to all of this on the Kennedys and King site but that site sucks with being able to find stuff. But it's there so look it up.
To Bill Chapman - instead of asking others to cite things, which is a very lazy thing, why don't you roll up your sleeves and find things yourself?
They want YOU to prove them wrong, and when You do, You're then branded a Liar or subjected to other slanders in an attempt to drive you away. With most of these people, it is a complete waste of time trying to educate them. They Only come here looking to be patted on the back by others that share their views.
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They want YOU to prove them wrong, and when You do, You're then branded a Liar or subjected to other slanders in an attempt to drive you away. With most of these people, it is a complete waste of time trying to educate them. They Only come here looking to be patted on the back by others that share their views.
Ah stop your whining, little man.... The irony is completely beyond you, isn't it.
They want YOU to prove them wrong, and when You do, You're then branded a Liar or subjected to other slanders
First of all, you haven't proven a damned thing all the time you have been on this forum.
Secondly, you are branded a liar, when you are caught making up stuff and then lying about it to weasel yourself out of the mess you have created
With most of these people, it is a complete waste of time trying to educate them.
Says the obnoxious presumptuous fool who thinks he's better than everbody else but reality hasn't got anything to educate others.
They Only come here looking to be patted on the back by others that share their views.
In the real world, sane people agree that your views are fanatical, extremist and pathetically stupid. People with a working brain know this and stand together. A fool like you doesn't and stands alone. That's why nobody on this forum supports your silly claims.
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I got my copy from a bargain bin a couple years later for 20 bucks, I think.
Now toilet paper costs more. So if you run out.....
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In this video by Walt Brown:
He says that Judyth Vary Baker controls the 3 main JFK assassination conferences in the U.S. I wonder how true that is and how much money do the organizers make from these conferences?
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They want YOU to prove them wrong, and when You do, You're then branded a Liar or subjected to other slanders in an attempt to drive you away.
Says the guy who proved himself to be a liar, saying he was a registered Democrat when he is actually a registered Republican.
Hoist by his own petard.
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Says the guy who proved himself to be a liar, saying he was a registered Democrat when he is actually a registered Republican.
Hoist by his own petard.
And you are involved in a JFK Assassination Forum? Maybe YOU should EXAMINE the DATE?
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Define "JFK expert"?
You tell us. You're the one who brought it up, Sherlock
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And you are involved in a JFK Assassination Forum? Maybe YOU should EXAMINE the DATE?
Unfortunately, we can't believe anything you post now, Snoring, as once an untruth teller, always an untruth teller.
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To go back to the original question...it depends on what side of the fence you're on. While a few JFK assassination CTs made a modest amount of money over a long period of time--Mark Lane, Anthony Summers, Davd Lifton, and Robert Grdoen come to mind--an equivalent or larger number of JFK assassination LNs have made serious money over a much shorter period of time. Think Gerald Posner, Mark Fuhrman, Bill O'Reilly, James Swanson, and, yes, even Vincent Bugliosi. While Bugliosi spent 20 years working on his doorstop, he was paid a large sum up front and another million or more for the film rights. Let's assume then it was a million for the book and a million for the film rights. 2 mil over 20 years is...100k a year That's far more than any CT received over the same time period.
But still probably less than O'Reilly received for a book he didn't even write.
O'Reilly, to me, is the litmus test. While one of the longest ongoing complaints among LNs is that JFK CTs are just trying to make money off the case, O'Reilly made millions off a book so bad not one prominent LN endorsed it--that he didn't even write--and yet not one prominent LN complained about this, not one. At least that I recall. (If anyone remembers the likes of McAdams, Holland, or Myers writing an article about
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To go back to the original question...it depends on what side of the fence you're on. While a few JFK assassination CTs made a modest amount of money over a long period of time--Mark Lane, Anthony Summers, Davd Lifton, and Robert Grdoen come to mind--an equivalent or larger number of JFK assassination LNs have made serious money over a much shorter period of time.
......
A curious, unstable figure who is the son of an executive (in 1963) of the Kodak Research Laboratory just happenred to come along and make Mary Ferrell's family quite wealthy, compared to their prior circumstances. See: https://jfkfacts.org/comment-of-the-week-11/#comment-847199
https://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/2017/11/16/oliver-curme-marijuana-hearing-mocks-cancer-ptsd/
https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/back-bay-resident-shocks-crowd-at-zoning/32475/
‘It Was Satire,’ Boston Man Says of Comments on Vets, Breast Cancer Patients
https://jfkresearch.wordpress.com/category/mary-ferrell-foundation/page/1/
Other beneficiaries of this man's still not thoroughly explained interest or level of generosity are, in order of compensation, Rex Bradford, but at least he worked to earn the opportunity, David Lifton.... we still don't know why he was paid, and various MFF directors, except Larry Hancock, who no MFF filing or other record I've found of compensation to Larry, has surfaced.
https://jfkresearch.wordpress.com/category/mary-ferrell-foundation/page/1/
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(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51esq8DNU-L._SX300_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)
This one ranks near the top of the worst "cash-in" books ever "written". It's slapped together, very poorly documented and sold in the millions.
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Why would that sell millions? Did Oprah endorse it or something?
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A curious, unstable figure who is the son of an executive (in 1963) of the Kodak Research Laboratory just happenred to come along and make Mary Ferrell's family quite wealthy, compared to their prior circumstances. See: https://jfkfacts.org/comment-of-the-week-11/#comment-847199
https://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/2017/11/16/oliver-curme-marijuana-hearing-mocks-cancer-ptsd/
https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/back-bay-resident-shocks-crowd-at-zoning/32475/
‘It Was Satire,’ Boston Man Says of Comments on Vets, Breast Cancer Patients
https://jfkresearch.wordpress.com/category/mary-ferrell-foundation/page/1/
Other beneficiaries of this man's still not thoroughly explained interest or level of generosity are, in order of compensation, Rex Bradford, but at least he worked to earn the opportunity, David Lifton.... we still don't know why he was paid, and various MFF directors, except Larry Hancock, who no MFF filing or other record I've found of compensation to Larry, has surfaced.
https://jfkresearch.wordpress.com/category/mary-ferrell-foundation/page/1/
There is nothing suspicious about Curme, IMO. He asked me out to dinner at a Lancer conference once, and we talked for hours. He insisted on paying the bill, explaining that he felt obliged seeing as he was using some of the material from my website for a continuing education class he'd started teaching at Harvard. I had no idea who he was until months later, when I read an online rant about the mysterious Ollie Curme.
I feel quite certain he is just who says he is--a rich CT who was in position to help the "community" by buying Mary's stash and putting it up online. He did a good thing. It happens.
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There is nothing suspicious about Curme, IMO. He asked me out to dinner at a Lancer conference once, and we talked for hours. He insisted on paying the bill, explaining that he felt obliged seeing as he was using some of the material from my website for a continuing education class he'd started teaching at Harvard. I had no idea who he was until months later, when I read an online rant about the mysterious Ollie Curme.
I feel quite certain he is just who says he is--a rich CT who was in position to help the "community" by buying Mary's stash and putting it up online. He did a good thing. It happens.
Pat, I've never met this generous benefactor, you have. You get around more than I do, and you may have a better sense. I have an unfavorable opinion of author Lifton and have no idea of what he did in exchange for the MFF money. I do know his high opinion of Priscilla Livingston Johnson, (as Mr. Simkin persists in labeling her, https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKjohnsonPR.htm ) flies in the face of the facts and the job he did on Garrison seemed over the top at the time and has not held up well.
Author Evica and Charles Drago had a reaction to their dinner host closer to mine than to yours, but Charles was less certain of his perceptions than you posted, about yours.: https://deeppoliticsforum.com/fora/thread-1107-post-4935.html#pid4935
I spent nearly a year inside the MFF sponsored or subsidized jfkfacts. I don't see how money, other than sourced from Mr. Curme, is the major support of web services for both sites as well as administrative costs of MFF and the foundation's directors' compensation.
Maybe I am too meticulous as far as what authors and other researchers publish or present, but I discern personal goals, other commercial considerations and cliques are often prioritized over accuracy and fair dealing. IOW, I see almost no one amending their inaccuracies, more challenging to amend when published in a book. CTs are their own worst enemies and so much unsupported consensus goes unchallenged. You read Ed Forum threads and you have high standards, from what I've read.
The verdict is not yet in as far as the outcome of Mr. Curme inserting himself. I'm not Z-film obsessed and I have encountered too many coincidences in the process of research to believe there is no such thing as coincidence, as criminal investigators are said to assume. There seem to be far too many, whatever that even means, and Curme's father's role at Kodak happens to be a curious coincidence. Oliver Curme is driven and impressively accomplished. The links in my last post and the "arrangements" he's made resulting in the MFF along with the lack of clarity of his relationship with JFK Assassination research give, "even the appearance of impropriety". LBJ, the FBI, DPD, Bill Decker's department, and the WC all lived under a similar cloud.
I can't decide if the "tone deaf" Curme with the self awareness deficit is more reasonable than a PR managed and filtered version. Have you considered how many times he was "pitched" by talented people seeking financial backing? He has been exposed to good first impressions and knows how to make one. Pursuing Mary and reassuring presenters like Michael Evica or Pat Speer seem within his realm of experience but a reversal of roles.
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Pat, I've never met this generous benefactor, you have. You get around more than I do, and you may have a better sense. I have an unfavorable opinion of author Lifton and have no idea of what he did in exchange for the MFF money. I do know his high opinion of Priscilla Livingston Johnson, (as Mr. Simkin persists in labeling her, https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKjohnsonPR.htm ) flies in the face of the facts and the job he did on Garrison seemed over the top at the time and has not held up well.
Author Evica and Charles Drago had a reaction to their dinner host closer to mine than to yours, but Charles was less certain of his perceptions than you posted, about yours.: https://deeppoliticsforum.com/fora/thread-1107-post-4935.html#pid4935
I spent nearly a year inside the MFF sponsored or subsidized jfkfacts. I don't see how money, other than sourced from Mr. Curme, is the major support of web services for both sites as well as administrative costs of MFF and the foundation's directors' compensation.
Maybe I am too meticulous as far as what authors and other researchers publish or present, but I discern personal goals, other commercial considerations and cliques are often prioritized over accuracy and fair dealing. IOW, I see almost no one amending their inaccuracies, more challenging to amend when published in a book. CTs are their own worst enemies and so much unsupported consensus goes unchallenged. You read Ed Forum threads and you have high standards, from what I've read.
The verdict is not yet in as far as the outcome of Mr. Curme inserting himself. I'm not Z-film obsessed and I have encountered too many coincidences in the process of research to believe there is no such thing as coincidence, as criminal investigators are said to assume. There seem to be far too many, whatever that even means, and Curme's father's role at Kodak happens to be a curious coincidence. Oliver Curme is driven and impressively accomplished. The links in my last post and the "arrangements" he's made resulting in the MFF along with the lack of clarity of his relationship with JFK Assassination research give, "even the appearance of impropriety". LBJ, the FBI, DPD, Bill Decker's department, and the WC all lived under a similar cloud.
I can't decide if the "tone deaf" Curme with the self awareness deficit is more reasonable than a PR managed and filtered version. Have you considered how many times he was "pitched" by talented people seeking financial backing? He has been exposed to good first impressions and knows how to make one. Pursuing Mary and reassuring presenters like Michael Evica or Pat Speer seem within his realm of experience but a reversal of roles.
To be clear, Tom, the Mary Ferrell Foundation was already up and running when I went to dinner with Curme, and he never mentioned it. I had no idea he was the man behind the curtain until months later.
As far as the MFF's assistant to Lifton...my understanding is that the MFF was not designed to be merely a website, but was set up as both a website/home for documents/research articles, and an incubator for further research. When it was set up, there was much excitement within the "community" over Don Thomas' research/upcoming book on the forensic evidence, and Lifton's research/upcoming book on Oswald. The MFF ended up publishing Thomas' book--I'm not sure if an advance was provided. It is my understanding though--I may even have heard this from you, I can't recall--that Lifton was given a grant to allow him to work on his research/upcoming book full time. As he never finished his book on Oswald, and is instead planning on putting out a second book on the medical evidence that basically doubles down on the weaker aspects of Best Evidence (All shots came from the front, etc), I suspect the MFF has come to regret providing Lifton this grant. But that's just a hunch.
I do know, however, that Curme himself does not promote Lifton's theories re body alteration. At one point he emailed me a link to an outline for the extension class he was teaching at Harvard. Some of my conclusions regarding the medical evidence were in there. But I don't recall there being anything on body alteration, faked x-rays, etc.
If you have an ongoing interest in the history of the MFF, moreover, there's something you should probably take a look at. At one of the Lancer Conferences, 2004 or 2005, there was a panel on the creation of the foundation. I am fairly certain Rex Bradford and Deb Conway were on this panel, but don't recall who else was on the panel. In any event, you might find it interesting to see what the announced goals were for the foundation, as opposed to what it became.