JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate => Topic started by: Bill Brown on November 15, 2019, 06:07:28 AM
-
Interesting that Benavides says this, considering he told the Warren Commission that he declined attending a police lineup because he felt that he could not make an identification one way or the other.
Eddie Barker: "Is there any doubt in your mind that Oswald was the man you had seen shoot Tippit?"
Domingo Benavides: "No Sir. There was no doubt at all. Period."
A CBS News Inquiry: The Warren Report - Part 3 (1967)
16:30....
https://www.c-span.org/video/?454599-1/cbs-news-inquiry-warren-report-part-3
-
Interesting that Benavides says this, considering he told the Warren Commission that he declined attending a police lineup because he felt that he could not make an identification one way or the other.
Eddie Barker: "Is there any doubt in your mind that Oswald was the man you had seen shoot Tippit?"
Domingo Benavides: "No Sir. There was no doubt at all. Period."
A CBS News Inquiry: The Warren Report - Part 3 (1967)
16:30....
https://www.c-span.org/video/?454599-1/cbs-news-inquiry-warren-report-part-3
So he parrots the narrative for a documentary, 4 years later *yawn*
Where are his FBI interviews / statements?
-
Interesting that Benavides says this, considering he told the Warren Commission that he declined attending a police lineup because he felt that he could not make an identification one way or the other.
Eddie Barker: "Is there any doubt in your mind that Oswald was the man you had seen shoot Tippit?"
Domingo Benavides: "No Sir. There was no doubt at all. Period."
A CBS News Inquiry: The Warren Report - Part 3 (1967)
16:30....
https://www.c-span.org/video/?454599-1/cbs-news-inquiry-warren-report-part-3
Mr. BENAVIDES - I remember the back of his head seemed like his hairline was sort of--looked like his hairline sort of went square instead of tapered off. and he looked like he needed a haircut for about 2 weeks, but his hair didn't taper off, it kind of went down and squared off and made his head look fiat in back.
The mug shots of Lee Oswald clearly show that the back of his head was conical shaped.....and the haircut was tapered...It DID NOT make the back of his head look flat......
-
Testimony Of Domingo Benavides
Mr. BELIN - Where were you when your vehicle stopped?
Mr. BENAVIDES - About 15 foot, just directly across the street and maybe a car length away from the police car.
~snip~
Mr. Belin: Let me ask you now, I would like you to relate again the action of the man with the gun as you saw him now.
Mr. Benavides: As I saw him, I really--I mean really got a good view of the man after the bullets were fired he had just turned. He was just turning away........
~snip~
Mr. BENAVIDES - I remember the back of his head seemed like his hairline was sort of--looked like his hairline sort of went square instead of tapered off. and he looked like he needed a haircut for about 2 weeks, but his hair didn't taper off, it kind of went down and squared off and made his head look fiat in back.
~snip~
A photo of Ozzie in custody on 11/22/63. The same day Benavides observed Tippit's killer.
Obviously not the person he saw at murder scene.
(http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/ozzieshair3.jpg)
-
Testimony Of Domingo Benavides
Mr. BELIN - Where were you when your vehicle stopped?
Mr. BENAVIDES - About 15 foot, just directly across the street and maybe a car length away from the police car.
~snip~
Mr. Belin: Let me ask you now, I would like you to relate again the action of the man with the gun as you saw him now.
Mr. Benavides: As I saw him, I really--I mean really got a good view of the man after the bullets were fired he had just turned. He was just turning away........
~snip~
Mr. BENAVIDES - I remember the back of his head seemed like his hairline was sort of--looked like his hairline sort of went square instead of tapered off. and he looked like he needed a haircut for about 2 weeks, but his hair didn't taper off, it kind of went down and squared off and made his head look fiat in back.
~snip~
A photo of Ozzie in custody on 11/22/63. The same day Benavides observed Tippit's killer.
Obviously not the person he saw at murder scene.
(http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/ozzieshair3.jpg)
A photo of Ozzie in custody on 11/22/63. The same day Benavides observed Tippit's killer.
Obviously not the person he saw at murder scene.
(http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/ozzieshair3.jpg)
Some folks are loath to say that something is impossible.....Like the impossibility of Lee Oswald being at the scene of Tippit's murder at 1:06PM.... But if something is impossible ( barring the supernatural) it's impossible...and It would have been impossible for Lee to have been at the rooming house at 1:04 PM and walking east on 10th street at Patton at that same time...
Mrs Markham said that she first saw the man walking east on tenth and Tippit was driving slowly along behind, tailing, him. Then after Tippit stopped and talked to the man through the car window he got out of his car and the man shot him. She said the time was not later than 1:07. So allowing just three minutes for the events that preceded the shooting...She first saw the man at 1:04 which is the same time that Mrs Roberts saw lee Oswald standing on the sidewalk in front of the rooming house.
-
Interesting that Benavides says this, considering he told the Warren Commission that he declined attending a police lineup because he felt that he could not make an identification one way or the other.
Eddie Barker: "Is there any doubt in your mind that Oswald was the man you had seen shoot Tippit?"
Domingo Benavides: "No Sir. There was no doubt at all. Period."
A CBS News Inquiry: The Warren Report - Part 3 (1967)
16:30....
https://www.c-span.org/video/?454599-1/cbs-news-inquiry-warren-report-part-3
Dom's memory got better after his brother Eddie was killed. Ditto Warren Reynolds after he shook off a bullet in the head. It was more dangerous to have been a witness on 10th Street than a witness on Elm Street.
-
Testimony Of Domingo Benavides
Mr. BELIN - Where were you when your vehicle stopped?
Mr. BENAVIDES - About 15 foot, just directly across the street and maybe a car length away from the police car.
~snip~
Mr. Belin: Let me ask you now, I would like you to relate again the action of the man with the gun as you saw him now.
Mr. Benavides: As I saw him, I really--I mean really got a good view of the man after the bullets were fired he had just turned. He was just turning away........
~snip~
Mr. BENAVIDES - I remember the back of his head seemed like his hairline was sort of--looked like his hairline sort of went square instead of tapered off. and he looked like he needed a haircut for about 2 weeks, but his hair didn't taper off, it kind of went down and squared off and made his head look fiat in back.
~snip~
A photo of Ozzie in custody on 11/22/63. The same day Benavides observed Tippit's killer.
Obviously not the person he saw at murder scene.
(http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/ozzieshair3.jpg)
Where's his jacket... oh, wait
-
Where's his jacket... oh, wait
Why don't you tell us where you think his jacket is.....
-
Where's his jacket... oh, wait
(https://i.imgur.com/5WIHwcJ.jpg)
-
Why don't you tell us where you think his jacket is.....
Try to focus: It's missing in the photo.
Oswald had a jacket; then he didn't.
Oh, my..
-
Try to focus: It's missing in the photo.
Oswald had a jacket; then he didn't.
Oh, my..
Oswald had a jacket
Did he?
-
Oswald had a jacket
Did he?
Mr. BALL. I'll show you this jacket which is Commission Exhibit 162---have you ever seen this jacket before?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Well, maybe I have, but I don't remember it. It seems like the one he put on was darker than that. Now, I won't be sure, because I really don't know, but is that a zipper jacket?
Mr. BALL. Yes---it has a zipper down the front.
Mrs. ROBERTS. Well, maybe it was.
Mr. BALL. It was a zippered jacket, was it?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes; it was a zipper jacket. How come me to remember it, he was zipping it up as he went out the door.
Mr. BALL. He was zipping it up as he went out the door?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes.
In her affidavit Mrs Roberts says that the jacket that Lee was zipping up was a DARK COLORED jacket.....
-
Mr. BALL. I'll show you this jacket which is Commission Exhibit 162---have you ever seen this jacket before?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Well, maybe I have, but I don't remember it. It seems like the one he put on was darker than that. Now, I won't be sure, because I really don't know, but is that a zipper jacket?
Mr. BALL. Yes---it has a zipper down the front.
Mrs. ROBERTS. Well, maybe it was.
Mr. BALL. It was a zippered jacket, was it?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes; it was a zipper jacket. How come me to remember it, he was zipping it up as he went out the door.
Mr. BALL. He was zipping it up as he went out the door?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes.
In her affidavit Mrs Roberts says that the jacket that Lee was zipping up was a DARK COLORED jacket.....
Yes, but does that really mean Oswald did indeed leave the roominghouse with a jacket? Can we take Roberts' comments to the bank without verification? Let's not forget that Officer Baker, who had far better eyesight than Roberts, also said Oswald had a jacket on and Whaley claimed that he was wearing one, if not two, also.
Let's also not forget that Roberts was concentrating on getting the television to work, which means she had her back turned to the living room, as the TV was placed in the corner opposite to where the front door was. To cover the distance from Oswald's room to the front door, it only takes seconds and Roberts suffered from poor eyesight, being blind in one eye. At best, she would have seen Oswald in a flash as he rushed out of the building. Hardly sufficient to determine what exactly he was wearing.
-
Yes, but does that really mean Oswald did indeed leave the roominghouse with a jacket? Can we take Roberts' comments to the bank without verification? Let's not forget that Officer Baker, who have far better eyesight, also said Oswald had a jacket on and Whaley claimed that he was wearing one, if not two, also.
Let's also not forget that Roberts was concentrating on getting the television to work, which means she had her back turned to the living room, as the TV was placed in the corner opposite to where the front door was. To cover the distance from Oswald's room to the front door, it only takes seconds and Roberts suffered from poor eyesight, being blind in one eye. At best, she would have seen Oswald in a flash as he rushed out of the building. Hardly sufficient to determine what exactly he was wearing.
Can we take Roberts' comments to the bank without verification? Let's not forget that Officer Baker, who have far better eyesight, also said Oswald had a jacket on and Whaley claimed that he was wearing one, if not two, also.
Baker was referring to the man that he encountered on an upper floor who was walking away from the stairs....He was not referring to Lee Oswald when he described the man who did not fir the description of Lee Oswald. And Please don't use Whaley....I don't believe Lee was even in his taxi....He said that his passenger was wearing a BLUE workman's type jacket.
Hardly sufficient to determine what exactly he was wearing.
Have you read her affidavit?.... She seems very certain about seeing Lee leave the rooming house while zipping up a DARK COLORED Jacket...
-
Can we take Roberts' comments to the bank without verification? Let's not forget that Officer Baker, who have far better eyesight, also said Oswald had a jacket on and Whaley claimed that he was wearing one, if not two, also.
Baker was referring to the man that he encountered on an upper floor who was walking away from the stairs....He was not referring to Lee Oswald when he described the man who did not fir the description of Lee Oswald. And Please don't use Whaley....I don't believe Lee was even in his taxi....He said that his passenger was wearing a BLUE worThe Lithping Larry Grayson "Oooh Shut That Door" doppleganger's type jacket.
Hardly sufficient to determine what exactly he was wearing.
Have you read her affidavit?.... She seems very certain about seeing Lee leave the rooming house while zipping up a DARK COLORED Jacket...
Yes I have read Roberts' affidavit and if you want to take that at face value, you are more than welcome to do so....
I have serious doubts about what parts of Roberts' story are true or not.
Feel free to ignore that she had poor eyesight and was blind in one eye, feel free to ignore that her employer said she made up things and wasn't always truthful, feel free to ignore that she was paying more attention to getting the TV to work, which means she had her back turned to the living room and feel free to ignore that it took less than 5 seconds to walk the distance between Oswald's room and the front door, thus narrowing the time span she had to make her observation, but I will require a bit more than "she said so in her affidavit".
-
Yes I have read Roberts' affidavit and if you want to take that at face value, your more than welcome to do so....
I have serious doubts about what parts of Roberts' story are true or not.
Feel free to ignore that she had poor eyesight and was blind in one eye, feel free to ignore that her employer said she made up things and wasn't always truthful, feel free to ignore that she was paying more attention to getting the TV to work, which means she had her back turned to the living room and feel free to ignore that it took less than 5 seconds to walk the distance between Oswald's room and the front door, thus narrowing the time span she had to make her observation, but I will require a bit more than "she said so in her affidavit".
Martin She not only said it in her affidavit ...reconfirmed it her testimony to the WC. Damned if I can understand why you want to discredit her.... She's a valuable asset for us.
-
Martin She not only said it in her affidavit ...reconfirmed it her testimony to the WC. Damned if I can understand why you want to discredit her.... She's a valuable asset for us.
Actually, I am not sure who "us" is. Secondly, I am not out to discredit anybody. I don't have an agenda, nor do I have a predetermined conclusion. I just call it as I see it. For me it's all about the evidence and the facts derived thereof.
Having said that, I don't think Roberts is an valuable asset at all, not for the CTs but also not for the LNs. She is IMO in fact one of the weakest witnesses in this entire saga. You may not agree with me on this one, Walt, but it is my opinion that Earlene Roberts would have been destroyed by even a mediocre defense attorney, had this case ever gone to trial. I seriously doubt any prosecutor would have taken the risk of calling her as a witness to begin with.
-
Actually, I am not sure who "us" is. Secondly, I am not out to discredit anybody. I don't have an agenda, nor do I have a predetermined conclusion. I just call it as I see it. For me it's all about the evidence and the facts derived thereof.
Having said that, I don't think Roberts is an valuable asset at all, not for the CTs but also not for the LNs. She is IMO in fact one of the weakest witnesses in this entire saga. You may not agree with me on this one, Walt, but it is my opinion that Earlene Roberts would have been destroyed by even a mediocre defense attorney, had this case ever gone to trial. I seriously doubt any prosecutor would have taken the risk of calling her as a witness to begin with.
You're right.....in believing that she is not a sterling witness.... But when it comes to something as simple as the color of the jacket that she saw Lee donning....I don't believe that is open to debate.... It not like she described a particular color.... She merely said the jacket was dark colored... You sure as hell couldn't call the WHITE jacket that the WC tried tp tell us was Lee Oswald's Jacket. ( Marina said that Lee didn't own a white Jacket) My Point:.....Nobody ( even if their vision was badly impaired.)....could see a WHITE jacket and call it a "dark colored jacket" .
-
Oswald had a jacket;
According to his half-blind landlady who was fooling with her TV at the time.
then he didn't.
I’m not sure what, if anything, you think that proves...
-
Yes, but does that really mean Oswald did indeed leave the roominghouse with a jacket? Can we take Roberts' comments to the bank without verification? Let's not forget that Officer Baker, who had far better eyesight than Roberts, also said Oswald had a jacket on and Whaley claimed that he was wearing one, if not two, also.
How does one zip up a shirt as they go out the door?
-
Can we take Roberts' comments to the bank without verification?
I've always wondered...who else was present and saw Oswald come in and leave the rooming house? Was Ms Roberts all alone?
Why have a Benavides topic anyway? Everything about him was already done to exhaustion months ago :-\
-
Yes I have read Roberts' affidavit and if you want to take that at face value, you are more than welcome to do so....
I have serious doubts about what parts of Roberts' story are true or not.
Feel free to ignore that she had poor eyesight and was blind in one eye, feel free to ignore that her employer said she made up things and wasn't always truthful, feel free to ignore that she was paying more attention to getting the TV to work, which means she had her back turned to the living room and feel free to ignore that it took less than 5 seconds to walk the distance between Oswald's room and the front door, thus narrowing the time span she had to make her observation, but I will require a bit more than "she said so in her affidavit".
I have serious doubts about what parts of Roberts' story are true or not.
I agree that Mrs Roberts' story may not be entirely accurate..... ( I have doubts about a police car honking ) but on a point that is so elementary as her observation that she saw Lee leaving and he was donning a dark colored jacket, I can't imagine any reason to doubt that.... It's not as if she was making that up.....
Why do you doubt that Mrs Roberts was simply being candid.....
-
I've always wondered...who else was present and saw Oswald come in and leave the rooming house? Was Ms Roberts all alone?
Why have a Benavides topic anyway? Everything about him was already done to exhaustion months ago :-\
I've always wondered...who else was present and saw Oswald come in and leave the rooming house? Was Ms Roberts all alone?
Yes, Mrs Roberts was alone in the living room when Lee Oswald arrived at the rooming house.... She had received a phone call informing her that JFK had been shot, just a couple of minutes prior to Lee's arrival.
And as for Benavides.... Even though That subject has been discussed over and over there are still some folks who can't read Benavides description of the killer's hair cut andthen look at a photo of Lee Oswald and SEE that Benavides description DOES NOT come close to matching Lee Oswald's hair cut. Perhaps it's hopeless....and there will always be those who are so blind that they will not see......though there is nothing wrong with their vision.
-
I have serious doubts about what parts of Roberts' story are true or not.
I agree that Mrs Roberts' story may not be entirely accurate..... ( I have doubts about a police car honking ) but on a point that is so elementary as her observation that she saw Lee leaving and he was donning a dark colored jacket, I can't imagine any reason to doubt that.... It's not as if she was making that up.....
Why do you doubt that Mrs Roberts was simply being candid.....
Walt, a witness is either credible or isn't.
When, as in Roberts' case, her employer says she was known to make up things and when other parts of her story, like the police car tale, are at least questionable, you have a witness who lacks sufficient credibility to take her words at face value. Does that mean that she wasn't telling to truth about the jacket? No, it doesn't, but without some sort of corroboration, we will never really know and, because of that alone, I simply can not rely on anything she says.
But there is more. Roberts, an elderly half blind woman, was trying to get the television to work, to watch the 1pm news, and thus has her back turned to the rest of the room. As she was doing that, why would she even pay much attention to Oswald, who only needed 5 seconds or less to cross the living room, behind Roberts' back, to get to the front door. At best, Roberts would not have seen Oswald for more than two seconds before he walked out the door. Just how likely is it that she made a perfect observation of what Oswald was wearing?
-
When, as in Roberts' case, her employer says she was known to make up things...
Why believe that? Because they said so? The Johnsons lied about quite a few things themselves.
-
Walt, a witness is either credible or isn't.
When, as in Roberts' case, her employer says she was known to make up things and when other parts of her story, like the police car tale, are at least questionable, you have a witness who lacks sufficient credibility to take her words at face value. Does that mean that she wasn't telling to truth about the jacket? No, it doesn't, but without some sort of corroboration, we will never really know and, because of that alone, I simply can not rely on anything she says.
But there is more. Roberts, an elderly half blind woman, was trying to get the television to work, to watch the 1pm news, and thus has her back turned to the rest of the room. As she was doing that, why would she even pay much attention to Oswald, who only needed 5 seconds or less to cross the living room, behind Roberts' back, to get to the front door. At best, Roberts would not have seen Oswald for more than two seconds before he walked out the door. Just how likely is it that she made a perfect observation of what Oswald was wearing?
Walt, a witness is either credible or isn't.
So you think that lee Oswald didn't arrive at the rooming house at 1:00 pm..... And she didn't even notice Lee as he arrived....In fact he may not have been there at all.... You think she just made it all up....Is that right?
-
Walt, a witness is either credible or isn't.
So you think that lee Oswald didn't arrive at the rooming house at 1:00 pm..... And she didn't even notice Lee as he arrived....In fact he may not have been there at all.... You think she just made it all up....Is that right?
It doesn't matter much what I think. It's what has evidentiary value and what doesn't.
So you think that lee Oswald didn't arrive at the rooming house at 1:00 pm.....
Where did I say that?
And she didn't even notice Lee as he arrived....
She was in the living room. When the front door opens and somebody walks in, she's of course going to notice that.
In fact he may not have been there at all....
Your words, not mine...
You think she just made it all up....Is that right?
No, that's not right.. You may want to reduce the discussion to an oversimplified yes or no issue, but in reality it's more complicated than that.
-
Walt, a witness is either credible or isn't.
When, as in Roberts' case, her employer says she was known to make up things and when other parts of her story, like the police car tale, are at least questionable, you have a witness who lacks sufficient credibility to take her words at face value. Does that mean that she wasn't telling to truth about the jacket? No, it doesn't, but without some sort of corroboration, we will never really know and, because of that alone, I simply can not rely on anything she says.
But there is more. Roberts, an elderly half blind woman, was trying to get the television to work, to watch the 1pm news, and thus has her back turned to the rest of the room. As she was doing that, why would she even pay much attention to Oswald, who only needed 5 seconds or less to cross the living room, behind Roberts' back, to get to the front door. At best, Roberts would not have seen Oswald for more than two seconds before he walked out the door. Just how likely is it that she made a perfect observation of what Oswald was wearing?
Walt, a witness is either credible or isn't.
I don't believe that...... A witness may not be 100% reliable but they certainly are reliable on the basics...... And Mrs Robertscertainly knew that she had seen Lee Oswald enter the rooming house at 1:00PM and she saw him leave again a few minutes later, while donning a dark colored jacket.
-
..... she saw him leave again a few minutes later, while donning a dark colored jacket.
If Oswald was indeed wearing a 'dark colored jacket' what ever happened to that dark colored jacket?
-
Walt, a witness is either credible or isn't.
I don't believe that...... A witness may not be 100% reliable but they certainly are reliable on the basics...... And Mrs Robertscertainly knew that she had seen Lee Oswald enter the rooming house at 1:00PM and she saw him leave again a few minutes later, while donning a dark colored jacket.
If that's what you want to believe....
Just one comment though; Roberts never said that she saw Oswald in a dark colored jacket. She actually said that the jacket she had seen was darker than CE 162. There is a difference.
-
If Oswald was indeed wearing a 'dark colored jacket' what ever happened to that dark colored jacket?
Good question and the reason why I don't understand why Walt so desperately wants to believe Earlene Roberts.
-
If that's what you want to believe....
Just one comment though; Roberts never said that she saw Oswald in a dark colored jacket. She actually said that the jacket she had seen was darker than CE 162. There is a difference.
Just one comment though; Roberts never said that she saw Oswald in a dark colored jacket.
Martin, I asked you if you'd read Mrs Roberts affidavit , and you said that you had read it..... Perhaps you should read it again....while paying attention to what Roberts said about the Jacket that she saw Lee donning.
-
Just one comment though; Roberts never said that she saw Oswald in a dark colored jacket.
Martin, I asked you if you'd read Mrs Roberts affidavit , and you said that you had read it..... Perhaps you should read it again....while paying attention to what Roberts said about the Jacket that she saw Lee donning.
Walt,
Patronizing doesn't become you.
Mrs. ROBERTS. He went to his room and he was in his shirt sleeves but I couldn't tell you whether it was a long-sleeved shirt or what color it was or nothing, and he got a jacket and put it on---it was kind of a zipper jacket.
Mr. BALL. Had you ever seen him wear that jacket before?
Mrs. ROBERTS. I can't say I did---if I did, I don't remember it.
Mr. BALL. When he came in he was in a shirt?
Mrs. ROBERTS. He was in his shirt sleeves.
Mr. BALL. What color was his shirt? Do you know?
Mrs. ROBERTS. I don't remember. I didn't pay that much attention for I was interested in the television trying to get it fixed.
Mr. BALL. Had you ever seen that shirt before or seen him wear it---the shirt, or do you know?
Mrs. ROBERTS. I don't remember---I don't know.
Mr. BALL. You say he put on a separate jacket?
Mrs. ROBERTS. A jacket.
Mr. BALL. I'll show you this jacket which is Commission Exhibit 162---have you ever seen this jacket before?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Well, maybe I have, but I don't remember it. It seems like the one he put on was darker than that. Now, I won't be sure, because I really don't know, but is that a zipper jacket?
Feel free to quote the part of her testimony where she describes that jacket as "dark colored"
-
Walt,
Patronizing doesn't become you.
Mrs. ROBERTS. He went to his room and he was in his shirt sleeves but I couldn't tell you whether it was a long-sleeved shirt or what color it was or nothing, and he got a jacket and put it on---it was kind of a zipper jacket.
Mr. BALL. Had you ever seen him wear that jacket before?
Mrs. ROBERTS. I can't say I did---if I did, I don't remember it.
Mr. BALL. When he came in he was in a shirt?
Mrs. ROBERTS. He was in his shirt sleeves.
Mr. BALL. What color was his shirt? Do you know?
Mrs. ROBERTS. I don't remember. I didn't pay that much attention for I was interested in the television trying to get it fixed.
Mr. BALL. Had you ever seen that shirt before or seen him wear it---the shirt, or do you know?
Mrs. ROBERTS. I don't remember---I don't know.
Mr. BALL. You say he put on a separate jacket?
Mrs. ROBERTS. A jacket.
Mr. BALL. I'll show you this jacket which is Commission Exhibit 162---have you ever seen this jacket before?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Well, maybe I have, but I don't remember it. It seems like the one he put on was darker than that. Now, I won't be sure, because I really don't know, but is that a zipper jacket?
Feel free to quote the part of her testimony where she describes that jacket as "dark colored"
Martin, I was not being patronizing....I politely asked you to re-read Mrs Roberts' AFFIDAVIT ....NOT her testimony.
Since you clearly don't want to read Mrs Roberts' AFFIDAVT .... I'll copy her statement from her affidavit.
Quote:....."Oswald went to his room and was only there a few minutes before coming out. I noticed he had a jacket he was putting on. I recall the jacket was a DARK COLOR and it was the type that zips up the front."....unquote
-
Martin, I was not being patronizing....I politely asked you to re-read Mrs Roberts' AFFIDAVIT ....NOT her testimony.
Since you clearly don't want to read Mrs Roberts' AFFIDAVT .... I'll copy her statement from her affidavit.
Quote:....."Oswald went to his room and was only there a few minutes before coming out. I noticed he had a jacket he was putting on. I recall the jacket was a DARK COLOR and it was the type that zips up the front."....unquote
Martin, I was not being patronizing....I politely asked you to re-read Mrs Roberts' AFFIDAVIT ....NOT her testimony.
Okay, my bad. I have been talking about her testimony and didn't really notice that you were talking about her affidavit.
I agree that in her affidavit she does indeed say that Oswald left in a jacket of dark color, but the affidavit wasn't executed until December 5th. By then she had been exposed to days of media reports which may have influenced her recollection.
But, let's say for argument's sake that Oswald did in fact leave the rooming house in a dark colored jacket? The first question would be, where did he get it? Marina testified that he only had two jackets. One was found at the TSBD and the other one was the grey jacket now in evidence as CE 162.
The second question that needs to be answered is; where did he leave that dark colored jacket? I think we can agree that he wasn't wearing a jacket when he was arrested at the Texas Theater, so where did it go?
-
Martin, I was not being patronizing....I politely asked you to re-read Mrs Roberts' AFFIDAVIT ....NOT her testimony.
Okay, my bad. I have been talking about her testimony and didn't really notice that you were talking about her affidavit.
I agree that in her affidavit she does indeed say that Oswald left in a jacket of dark color, but the affidavit wasn't executed until December 5th. By then she had been exposed to days of media reports which may have influenced her recollection.
But, let's say for argument's sake that Oswald did in fact leave the rooming house in a dark colored jacket? The first question would be, where did he get it? Marina testified that he only had two jackets. One was found at the TSBD and the other one was the grey jacket now in evidence as CE 162.
The second question that needs to be answered is; where did he leave that dark colored jacket? I think we can agree that he wasn't wearing a jacket when he was arrested at the Texas Theater, so where did it go?
In her affidavit Mrs Roberts said that she recalled that the jacket was dark color....
Quote:....."Oswald went to his room and was only there a few minutes before coming out. I noticed he had a jacket he was putting on. I recall the jacket was a DARK COLOR and it was the type that zips up the front."....unquote
Then in her testimony she confirmed what she had said in her affidavit....
Mr. BALL. I'll show you this jacket which is Commission Exhibit 162---have you ever seen this jacket before?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Well, maybe I have, but I don't remember it. It seems like the one he put on was darker than that.
Thus Mrs Roberts clearly says that the WHITE jacket that was found in an alley near the Tippit murder scene could not have been the Jacket that lee was wearing when he left the rooming house.....Even if she had poor vision she certainly could not mistake a bright WHITE jacket for a "DARK COLOR" jacket .....
-
In her affidavit Mrs Roberts said that she recalled that the jacket was dark color....
Quote:....."Oswald went to his room and was only there a few minutes before coming out. I noticed he had a jacket he was putting on. I recall the jacket was a DARK COLOR and it was the type that zips up the front."....unquote
Then in her testimony she confirmed what she had said in her affidavit....
Mr. BALL. I'll show you this jacket which is Commission Exhibit 162---have you ever seen this jacket before?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Well, maybe I have, but I don't remember it. It seems like the one he put on was darker than that.
Thus Mrs Roberts clearly says that the WHITE jacket that was found in an alley near the Tippit murder scene could not have been the Jacket that lee was wearing when he left the rooming house.....Even if she had poor vision she certainly could not mistake a bright WHITE jacket for a "DARK COLOR" jacket .....
Thus Mrs Roberts clearly says that the WHITE jacket that was found in an alley near the Tippit murder scene could not have been the Jacket that lee was wearing when he left the rooming house.....Even if she had poor vision she certainly could not mistake a bright WHITE jacket for a "DARK COLOR" jacket .....
Well, Roberts didn't actually say that, but from her words it can be concluded that the dark colored jacket and the white jacket found in the parking lot can not be the same item. I figured early on that this would be the argument you wanted to make. I'm not sure it will get you where you want to be though.
But why don't you try to answer the two questions I asked?
-
In her affidavit Mrs Roberts said that she recalled that the jacket was dark color....
Quote:....."Oswald went to his room and was only there a few minutes before coming out. I noticed he had a jacket he was putting on. I recall the jacket was a DARK COLOR and it was the type that zips up the front."....unquote
Then in her testimony she confirmed what she had said in her affidavit....
Mr. BALL. I'll show you this jacket which is Commission Exhibit 162---have you ever seen this jacket before?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Well, maybe I have, but I don't remember it. It seems like the one he put on was darker than that.
Thus Mrs Roberts clearly says that the WHITE jacket that was found in an alley near the Tippit murder scene could not have been the Jacket that lee was wearing when he left the rooming house.....Even if she had poor vision she certainly could not mistake a bright WHITE jacket for a "DARK COLOR" jacket .....
Here we go again, how people perceive colour and shade is a way more complicated than you could possibly know.
In the following example are the A and B squares a different shade?
(https://i.postimg.cc/zB3BPnQG/optical-illusion-square.jpg)
JohnM
-
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh7/pdf/WH7_Roberts_aff.pdf
What I find interesting about the Roberts affidavit is her recollection that that the cops came about 30 minutes after Oswald left.
How come?...and how did they know to look for Oswald at the Beckley house at approx 1:30 ---20 minutes before his arrest? All the info that was available at the TSBD was the Irving address.
-
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh7/pdf/WH7_Roberts_aff.pdf
What I find interesting about the Roberts affidavit is her recollection that that the cops came about 30 minutes after Oswald left.
How come?...and how did they know to look for Oswald at the Beckley house at approx 1:30 ---20 minutes before his arrest? All the info that was available at the TSBD was the Irving address.
Yes...Wouldn't be great to have verification for Mrs Roberts estimate that the police came about 30 minutes after Lee Left..... But I suspect Mrs Roberts sense of time may be inaccurate.
However the police were at the rooming house early.......( I think before Lee told them he had a room at that address) So he answer to your question of:...how did they know to look for Oswald at the Beckley house would be interesting.
-
Here we go again, how people perceive colour and shade is a way more complicated than you could possibly know.
So is the way people recognize and remember faces.
-
So is the way people recognize and remember faces.
.
John,
You can't say something like that to Mytton. It's way beyond his pay grade or IQ
-
Easier for everybody if the person has a feature that grabs the attention. Like a smirk, for instance ;)
Edit: corrected Typo
8:10pm EST
-
Easier for eveybody if the person has a feature that grabs the attention. Like a smirk, for instance ;)
eveybody ?
-
So is the way people recognize and remember faces.
I don't see the connection, please elaborate?
JohnM
-
Here we go again, how people perceive colour and shade is a way more complicated than you could possibly know.
In the following example are the A and B squares a different shade?
(https://i.postimg.cc/zB3BPnQG/optical-illusion-square.jpg)
JohnM
So is the way people recognize and remember faces.
I don't see the connection, please elaborate?
JohnM
I told you John... Mytton doesn't understand
-
eveybody ?
Cool. Bring up typos when you have you have nothing to contribute to the 'discussions' you claim to want.
-
Cool. Bring up typos when you have you have nothing to contribute to the 'discussions' you claim to want.
When did I ever claim I want to have any kind of discussion with you?
If I want to waste my time, I know at least a 1000 ways to do so, that are far better than talking to you.
-
Yes...Wouldn't be great to have verification for Mrs Roberts estimate that the police came about 30 minutes after Lee Left..... But I suspect Mrs Roberts sense of time may be inaccurate.
That verification appears to have come from the Johnsons [somewhat]------Mr. BALL. On the day of the 22d of November, were you home around 1 o'clock?
Mrs. JOHNSON. It must have been 1:30 or 2, something like that.
Mr. BALL. When you came home?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes; after serving lunch.
Mr. BALL. Did Earlene Roberts say anything to you whether or not this man had returned?
Mrs. JOHNSON. No; after these officers came in, well, then she began to tell them that he did come rushing in and she had gotten a phone call or had made one, anyway, she was on the phone--no, there was someone called her, that's what she said, said someone called her and she says, "Did you know that the President had been assassinated" and she says, "Why, no" and she says, "Well, it's on the television now" and she says, "I will run and turn it on" and she run in and turned this television on to get this information and this Oswald walked in hurriedly and she said, she said to him, "You seem to be in a hurry." She was the only one in that place.
So Mrs Roberts was alone.
Mr. BALL. When they came out there, did they have a search warrant?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes, surely.
Mr. BELIN. Could you describe how you came to find out that this man had another name other than O. H. Lee?
Mr. JOHNSON. Well, it was when the officers came looking for him.
Mr. BELIN. When was this?
Mr. JOHNSON. Uh--after Tippit was shot, the police----
Mr. BELIN. This would have been on November 22, 1963?...........
Mr. BELIN. Did they say how they happened to come there?
Posted all this on the thread... https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,1490.0.html
Mr. JOHNSON. "Well, uh--after he was--uh--apprehended out there, they searched him and found my address in his pocket
Mr. BELIN. Your address of 1026 North Beckley?
Mr. JOHNSON. That's right.
Mr. BELIN. All right. What happened when the officers got there? They asked if Lee Harvey Oswald lived there?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. How long had you been at the house when the officers arrived?
Mr. JOHNSON. Oh, probably 30 minutes.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember about what time of the day they arrived?
Mr. JOHNSON. Well, it must have been around 1:30 or 2 o'clock--the best I remember.
Mr. BELIN. When did you get home that day from your work?
Mr. JOHNSON. Well, it was around 1 o'clock or maybe a little bit after.
Mr. BELIN. At the time you had gotten home, had you heard that the President had been shot?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes. I heard that before I went home.
Mr. BELIN. Did you hear that the President had died before you went home?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes.
That would have been impossible. As discussed before...the announcement [Kennedy was dead] didn't come until 1:37.
If Johnson got home just after 1:00 that day---Then he must have just missed Oswald right? The timing from the couple [when they got home] is contradictory but A C Johnson supports Roberts' claim :-\
-
When did I ever claim U want to have any kind of discussion with you?
If I want to waste my time, I know at least a 1000 ways to do, that are far better than talking to you.
Where did I say you want to have discussions with me? You keep telling me that I'm not worth responding to; yet here you are.
Edit: ('us' to 'me')
8:46pm EST
-
Where did I say you want to have discussions with me? You keep telling us I'm not worth responding to; yet here you are.
Did you think I would let you get away with your usual crap?
-
Easier for everybody if the person has a feature that grabs the attention. Like a smirk, for instance ;)
What witness said anything about a smirk?
-
What witness said anything about a smirk?
Where did I say they did?. I merely used that as an example. Like if a guy is bald with a goofy grin on his face, for example... that would be unforgettable to some... especially if he had his name emblazoned on his T-shirt.
;)
-
Did you think I would let you get away with your usual crap?
Stop squirming, Lord Haughty. Like I said, you've stated in the past that I'm not worth posting to, and yet here you are again.
-
Stop squirming, Lord Haughty. Like I said, you've stated in the past that I'm not worth posting to, and yet here you are again.
How old are you? Do they allow that you use the kindergarten computer?
-
Where did I say they did?. I merely used that as an example. Like if a guy is bald with a goofy grin on his face, for example... that would be unforgettable to some... especially if he had his name emblazoned on his T-shirt.
;)
Thanks for yet another useless diversion.
-
What witness said anything about a smirk?
Jack Tatum.
-
Jack Tatum.
Affidavit? Cite where...about the smirk.
-
How old are you? Do they allow that you use the kindergarten computer?
There you go again
-
Jack Tatum said Oswald's "mouth curled up...kind of a smile". Tatum didn't use the word "smirk", but instead stated that Oswald's mouth curled up; a smirk (in my opinion) though Tatum didn't use that actual word.
-
Jack Tatum said Oswald's "mouth curled up...kind of a smile". Tatum didn't use the word "smirk", but instead stated that Oswald's mouth curled up; a smirk (in my opinion) though Tatum didn't use that actual word.
Naughty, naughty, Bill. You shouldn't put your opinion (smirk) into somebody else's statement. Other less discerning posters might believe you.
-
Quote from: Bill Brown on Today at 03:52:45 AM
Jack Tatum said Oswald's "mouth curled up...kind of a smile". Tatum didn't use the word "smirk", but instead stated that Oswald's mouth curled up; a smirk (in my opinion) though Tatum didn't use that actual word.
Naughty, naughty, Bill. You shouldn't put your opinion (smirk) into somebody else's statement. Other less discerning posters might believe you.
Did Tatum call Bill Brown and report that because he didn't say this in his affidavit? Mr Brown doesn't seem to want to tell us where Tatum details a smirk.
-
OK I found it ----Tatum reveals the account to Dale Myers. The story got more colorful through the years.
“He (Oswald) wasn’t panicking, that was for sure,” Tatum said. “The one characteristic about Oswald that I saw and will never forget was that his mouth seemed to curl up as if he was smiling. And I saw that when he was looking into the squad car before the shots. I noticed that same characteristic when I saw him (Oswald, later) on TV.
If you are going to find a patsy...just make sure he has a perpetual smirk :D
“He was already down and I saw a person (positively identified by Tatum as Oswald) with a gun in his hand and he turned around, as if he was going to run off or walk off and as he got to the rear of the car, he hesitated and walked around the squad car (towards the officer) and shot a fourth time. It could have been a third.” [21]Tatum stated that six to ten seconds elapsed between the penultimate shot and the last shot.
The contradictions are blatant.
-
Jack Tatum said Oswald's "mouth curled up...kind of a smile". Tatum didn't use the word "smirk", but instead stated that Oswald's mouth curled up; a smirk (in my opinion) though Tatum didn't use that actual word.
LHO apparently acquired that trait (along with several others) from his dear old mama... ;)
(https://i.vgy.me/7I6nBE.jpg)
-
OK I found it ----Tatum reveals the account to Dale Myers. The story got more colorful through the years.If you are going to find a patsy...just make sure he has a perpetual smirk :DThe contradictions are blatant.
Tatum reveals the account to Dale Myers. The story got more colorful through the years.
I have serious doubt about Tatum's tale...... There are many points that were not seen by Benavides, or Markham. I seriously doubt that the killer went arond to the rear of the car and then went back to the front to shoot Tippit in the temple as he was lying on the street. I believe the temple shot happened before Tippit collapsed and it's a very strong indicator that the shooter was an expert ..... One thing that I'd bet the farm on..... The killer was NOT using that old Smith & Wesson Victory with the barrel sawed off..... Nobody could have shot Tippit with the accuracy indicated by the autopsy pictures if they were using that piece of junk.
-
Here we go again, how people perceive colour and shade is a way more complicated than you could possibly know.
In the following example are the A and B squares a different shade?
(https://i.postimg.cc/zB3BPnQG/optical-illusion-square.jpg)
JohnM
I don't give a damn how you attempt to discredit Mrs Roberts.... She certainly could discern the vast difference between a WHITE Jacket like that displayed in the parking lot behind Ballew's Texaco station...and a "Dark colored Jacket."
-
Testimony Of Domingo Benavides
Mr. BELIN - Where were you when your vehicle stopped?
Mr. BENAVIDES - About 15 foot, just directly across the street and maybe a car length away from the police car.
~snip~
Mr. Belin: Let me ask you now, I would like you to relate again the action of the man with the gun as you saw him now.
Mr. Benavides: As I saw him, I really--I mean really got a good view of the man after the bullets were fired he had just turned. He was just turning away........
~snip~
Mr. BENAVIDES - I remember the back of his head seemed like his hairline was sort of--looked like his hairline sort of went square instead of tapered off. and he looked like he needed a haircut for about 2 weeks, but his hair didn't taper off, it kind of went down and squared off and made his head look fiat in back.
~snip~
A photo of Ozzie in custody on 11/22/63. The same day Benavides observed Tippit's killer.
Obviously not the person he saw at murder scene.
(http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/ozzieshair3.jpg)
Mr. Belin: Let me ask you now, I would like you to relate again the action of the man with the gun as you saw him now.
Mr. Benavides: As I saw him, I really--I mean really got a good view of the man after the bullets were fired he had just turned. He was just turning away........
There can be little doubt that Dom Benavides KNEW that Lee Oswald was NOT the man who shot JD Tippit. BUT...Benavides wasn't stupid...He was well aware that the cold blooded killer was still running free, and that killer knew that Benavides could identify him.
( although nobody in law enforcement actually wanted Benavides to ID the killer, they wanted their patsy convicted and executed. )
Thus Benavides was content to keep his mouth shut.....up to a point. He had a conscience......and even though Lee Oswald was dead, he knew that the false evidence being presented against him was immoral.