JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate => Topic started by: Oscar Navarro on January 07, 2019, 07:21:57 PM
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Did you guys know that if it had not been for Oswald missing Gen. Walker by a hair federal law could still protect public figures against libel? I didn't until today. It turns out that back in the sixties Gen. Walker had successfully sued for libel several news outlets and won around $3 million in damages. One of those news outlets, The Associated Press, took the matter to the Supreme Court arguing for the damages to be overturned. In Associated Press vs Walker, 389 U.S 28 (1967) in a 9-0 decision the Justices ruled that even though the Associated Press may have knowingly printed false and malicious information about Gen. Walker that the Constitutional guarantee of free speech by public officials against libel extended to private persons in the public arena.
textfiles.com/conspiracy/walker.txt (http://textfiles.com/conspiracy/walker.txt)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_Walker (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_Walker)
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Did you guys know that if it had not been for Oswald missing Gen. Walker by a hair federal law could still protect public figures against libel? I didn't until today. It turns out that back in the sixties Gen. Walker had successfully sued for libel several news outlets and won around $3 million in damages. One of those news outlets, The Associated Press, took the matter to the Supreme Court arguing for the damages to be overturned. In Associated Press vs Walker, 389 U.S 28 (1967) in a 9-0 decision the Justices ruled that even though the Associated Press may have knowingly printed false and malicious information about Gen. Walker that the Constitutional guarantee of free speech by public officials against libel extended to private persons in the public arena.
textfiles.com/conspiracy/walker.txt (http://textfiles.com/conspiracy/walker.txt)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_Walker (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_Walker)
Just to suggest a slight change: public figures CAN sue for defamation (and win) but as the Court ruled in the Walker case he, as a pubic figure, had to show "malice" on the part of the accuser and not simply that the charges were false.
Previously this requirement only applied to public officials (this was the 1964 New York Times vs. Sullivan ruling where Sullivan was an Alabama Public Safety Commissioner) but with this case it also applied to so-called public figures.
But it's an interesting story, thanks.
I took out the videos in my reply.
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Why would LHO target the far right walker
and the "communist" Kennedy?
Does LHO strike you as politically confused?
or an "anyone will do" assassin who seeks fame?
I couldn't imagine walker and JFK being friends - they are opposites
LHO voted for JFK
In return JFK was super restrained in dealing with the Cubans
So is left leaning on foreign policy
Why kill JFK?
What say you regrading LHO's motive's?
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The mad queer x general was involved in this up to his redneck W.A.S.P ears
Besides being a decorated war hero in both WWII and Korea Gen. Walker had one other outstanding quality...he was a staunch anti-communist.
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Why would LHO target the far right walker
and the "communist" Kennedy?
Does LHO strike you as politically confused?
or an "anyone will do" assassin who seeks fame?
I couldn't imagine walker and JFK being friends - they are opposites
LHO voted for JFK
In return JFK was super restrained in dealing with the Cubans
So is left leaning on foreign policy
Why kill JFK?
What say you regrading LHO's motive's?
That answer would require it's own thread. In brief summation Oswald was a political zealot with had an overinflated opinion of his role in history.
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Besides being a decorated war hero in both WWII and Korea Gen. Walker had one other outstanding quality...he was a staunch anti-communist.
Yes ...That may be true....And Walker was aligned with Adolph Hitler and his band of Nazis in that regard...and J.Edgar Hoover also was fanatical anti communist....
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Yes ...That may be true....And Walker was aligned with Adolph Hitler and his band of Nazis in that regard...and J.Edgar Hoover also was fanatical anti communist....
JFK was also a staunch anti-communist. So were Conrad Adenauer, Winston Churchill, Francisco Franco and Charles de Gaulle. I think even Clement Attle was a staunch anti-communist. Anti-communism united many from different political outlooks.
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The mad queer x general was involved in this up to his redneck W.A.S.P ears
I totally agree, Mr O'b.....
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That answer would require it's own thread. In brief summation Oswald was a political zealot with had an overinflated opinion of his role in history.
An overinflated opinion of his role? He said he was just a patsy.
Why didn't he come out and proclaim himself the lone assassin?
Proudly proclaim his achievement and say why he did it
like most other successful infamous assassins
Yes he was a very politically minded person
all the more reason to suspect how a "political zealot" and a
president could be brought together by chance
IMO the walker evidence does not help convict LHO at all
It does point out huge inconsistencies in the WC's version of events
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An overinflated opinion of his role? He said he was just a patsy.
Why didn't he come out and proclaim himself the lone assassin?
Proudly proclaim his achievement and say why he did it
like most other successful infamous assassins
Yes he was a very politically minded person
all the more reason to suspect how a "political zealot" and a
president could be brought together by chance
IMO the walker evidence does not help convict LHO at all
It does point out huge inconsistencies in the WC's version of events
It is my opinion that he didn't expect to get out alive or that he would be apprehended after shooting JFK. In his mind, since he didn't expect to be shot and killed after he was arrested at the TT it was during the trial that his stature as a political figure of the left would be cemented. I think that's why he was adamant that Abt would represent him.
IMO the walker evidence does not help convict LHO at all
It does point out huge inconsistencies in the WC's version of events
Eddie, photos of the Walker residence dated to weeks before the actual shooting were found in either the Paine's or in the Beckley rooming house. Those photos (or a photo) was traced to his IRC to the exclusion of any other camera. If the case had gone to trial it's possible that the DeMohrenchilds would have been subpoeaned and their encounter with St. Oswald the Patsy about the Walker shooting could have had some value in connecting Oswald to the shooting. Without Marina's testimony though it would have been tough to convict Oswald for the Walker shooting. That I will admit. But for historical purposes where the evidence does not have to pass the rigors of the evidentiary procedures of a trial it's clear that Oswald attempted to murder Walker, IMHO. Where are does inconsistencies in the WR?
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It is my opinion that he didn't expect to get out alive or that he would be apprehended after shooting JFK. In his mind, since he didn't expect to be shot and killed after he was arrested at the TT it was during the trial that his stature as a political figure of the left would be cemented. I think that's why he was adamant that Abt would represent him.
IMO the walker evidence does not help convict LHO at all
It does point out huge inconsistencies in the WC's version of events
Eddie, photos of the Walker residence dated to weeks before the actual shooting were found in either the Paine's or in the Beckley rooming house. Those photos (or a photo) was traced to his IRC to the exclusion of any other camera. If the case had gone to trial it's possible that the DeMohrenchilds would have been subpoeaned and their encounter with St. Oswald the Patsy about the Walker shooting could have had some value in connecting Oswald to the shooting. Without Marina's testimony though it would have been tough to convict Oswald for the Walker shooting. That I will admit. But for historical purposes where the evidence does not have to pass the rigors of the evidentiary procedures of a trial it's clear that Oswald attempted to murder Walker, IMHO. Where are does inconsistencies in the WR?
where do I even begin?
1-target selection.as I have said why target a hard right walker
then a left leaning president? This make no sense
2-He couldn't hit walker at 25 feet,a stationary target
then he pulls off one of the most amazing sniper jobs in history
(If he did it the most incredible hands down)
a thoroughly planned murder vs a murder that fell into his lap
A different MO you see.
3-He has pictures? all the walker evidence is retroactive and IF he was
a patsy as he said doesn't this reek of a frame up?How dumb is LHO
to have incriminating pictures and his confession lying around
someone else's home? LHO was an intellectual type personality
4-de Mohrenschildt and his wife know about the rifle.(it was no secret)
they had a copy of the infamous rifle picture in their possession.
They fail to tell RP who they introduced to LHO that he had a rifle
and was potentially unstable.RP has the FBI come to her home but
still has zero suspicion of LHO.(who she says she never liked)
The rifle is not hidden well wrapped in a blanket.No ammo was found.
5-Marina was totally intimidated by the DPD which they are very good at
(they convince innocent people to say they are cop killers) So are very
persuasive.They wheeled her out in front of the camera's to say her
husband was guilty before any investigation was finished.
6-but the most obvious reason this shines a light on the entire affair
is the LHO placement at the TSBD.I know you have heard this before
but no LN'er has given more thought to this than a shrug of the shoulders
and a yeah,he got lucky.
NO HE DIDN'T.
An aspiring assassin gets this job in the perfect place by accident
less than 5 weeks before the presidents arrival that nobody knows about?
He planned the walker murder by taking pictures and casing the area?
THEN he innocently gets the TSBD job?
THEN he does the most amazing shooting job in the history of the rifle
THEN he avoids a massive police dragnet on East 10th
THEN he is killed by ANOTHER lone nut in police custody
There are so many hard to swallow circumstances surrounding this case
that when you put them together
It becomes simply indigestible
for more on this please read this thread
An opportunistic killer or a conspiracy to murder?
As it turned out there is more evidence to convict LHO of the walker
crime than the actual assassination (fake evidence all the same)
you can;'t really speculate what would have happened at trial can you?
He was murdered in the care of the DPD an unconvinced innocent man.
So we will never know what would have happened and the reason
for it is the incompetence (at best) of the DPD who is ironically stoically
defended by people on this site.
they were even asked about security for LHO and JC said "we are taking precautions" WHAT PRECAUTIONS?
Who got fired? nobody
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It is my opinion that he didn't expect to get out alive or that he would be apprehended after shooting JFK. In his mind, since he didn't expect to be shot and killed after he was arrested at the TT it was during the trial that his stature as a political figure of the left would be cemented. I think that's why he was adamant that Abt would represent him.
IMO the walker evidence does not help convict LHO at all
It does point out huge inconsistencies in the WC's version of events
Eddie, photos of the Walker residence dated to weeks before the actual shooting were found in either the Paine's or in the Beckley rooming house. Those photos (or a photo) was traced to his IRC to the exclusion of any other camera. If the case had gone to trial it's possible that the DeMohrenchilds would have been subpoeaned and their encounter with St. Oswald the Patsy about the Walker shooting could have had some value in connecting Oswald to the shooting. Without Marina's testimony though it would have been tough to convict Oswald for the Walker shooting. That I will admit. But for historical purposes where the evidence does not have to pass the rigors of the evidentiary procedures of a trial it's clear that Oswald attempted to murder Walker, IMHO. Where are does inconsistencies in the WR?
It is my opinion that he didn't expect to get out alive or that he would be apprehended after shooting JFK.
"It is my opinion that he didn't expect to get out alive"
But you've said that Lee Oswald murdered JFK so that the name Lee Harvey Oswald would be known all over the globe....You said that he was seeking fame.... But he expected to be killed...And yet he left not a single word or note that he had shot anybody....Nor did he proclaim to the world that he had shot JFK when he was paraded out in front of a mob at midnight... On the contrary....He steadfastly denied that he had shot anybody.
"that he would be apprehended "
Psssst... Oscar, Lee Oswald was apprehended .....
So on one hand you say He thought he would be killed.... But on the other hand you say he thought he would be apprehended....
Either way...He would have proclaimed his deed, to the world, if he had been the assassin who was seeking fame....
Can you understand how silly your theory is?......
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It is my opinion that he didn't expect to get out alive or that he would be apprehended after shooting JFK.
"It is my opinion that he didn't expect to get out alive"
But you've said that Lee Oswald murdered JFK so that the name Lee Harvey Oswald would be known all over the globe....You said that he was seeking fame.... But he expected to be killed...And yet he left not a single word or note that he had shot anybody....Nor did he proclaim to the world that he had shot JFK when he was paraded out in front of a mob at midnight... On the contrary....He steadfastly denied that he had shot anybody.
"that he would be apprehended "
Psssst... Oscar, Lee Oswald was apprehended .....
So on one hand you say He thought he would be killed.... But on the other hand you say he thought he would be apprehended....
Either way...He would have proclaimed his deed, to the world, if he had been the assassin who was seeking fame....
Can you understand how silly your theory is?......
But you've said that Lee Oswald murdered JFK so that the name Lee Harvey Oswald would be known all over the globe....You said that he was seeking fame.... But he expected to be killed...And yet he left not a single word or note that he had shot anybody....Nor did he proclaim to the world that he had shot JFK when he was paraded out in front of a mob at midnight... On the contrary....He steadfastly denied that he had shot anybody
Why in the world would LHO need to leave a note to announce to the world that he had shot JFK when the deed alone would grant him the notoriety he seeked? Isn't that what occurred? Oswald's denials are meaningless considering that what he wanted was the public notoriety now that he found himself in the lucky position of still being alive after shooting a cop and the POTUS. In case it has escaped you Oswald was loaded for bear after leaving the rooming house. He left the rooming house with a loaded revolver and at least nine more bullets in his pocket. He was prepared to fight it out and demonstrated it at the TT. There Oswald claimed police brutality after he attempted to shoot a cop while being apprehended. Do Oswald's shrieks and pleas appear to have a legitimate basis for grievance or isn't it more likely that his cries were for public consumption only?
Psssst... Oscar, Lee Oswald was apprehended .....
So on one hand you say He thought he would be killed.... But on the other hand you say he thought he would be apprehended....
Either way...He would have proclaimed his deed, to the world, if he had been the assassin who was seeking fame....
Can you understand how silly your theory is?
Killed or aprehendeed. You can't even follow what you highlight. BTW, my theory is based on verifiable facts unlike yours, which are baseless assertions.
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But you've said that Lee Oswald murdered JFK so that the name Lee Harvey Oswald would be known all over the globe....You said that he was seeking fame.... But he expected to be killed...And yet he left not a single word or note that he had shot anybody....Nor did he proclaim to the world that he had shot JFK when he was paraded out in front of a mob at midnight... On the contrary....He steadfastly denied that he had shot anybody
Why in the world would LHO need to leave a note to announce to the world that he had shot JFK when the deed alone would grant him the notoriety he seeked? Isn't that what occurred? Oswald's denials are meaningless considering that what he wanted was the public notoriety now that he found himself in the lucky position of still being alive after shooting a cop and the POTUS. In case it has escaped you Oswald was loaded for bear after leaving the rooming house. He left the rooming house with a loaded revolver and at least nine more bullets in his pocket. He was prepared to fight it out and demonstrated it at the TT. There Oswald claimed police brutality after he attempted to shoot a cop while being apprehended. Do Oswald's shrieks and pleas appear to have a legitimate basis for grievance or isn't it more likely that his cries were for public consumption only?
Psssst... Oscar, Lee Oswald was apprehended .....
So on one hand you say He thought he would be killed.... But on the other hand you say he thought he would be apprehended....
Either way...He would have proclaimed his deed, to the world, if he had been the assassin who was seeking fame....
Can you understand how silly your theory is?
Killed or aprehendeed. You can't even follow what you highlight. BTW, my theory is based on verifiable facts unlike yours, which are baseless assertions.
BTW, my theory is based on verifiable facts unlike yours, which are baseless assertions.
Ok ...Let's take a look at the FACTS...
It is a FACT that the witnesses at the Tippit murder scene swore that the killer was wearing a WHITE shirt beneath a Jacket...
When Lee was dragged from the theater he had no jacket, and he was NOT wearing a WHITE shirt.....
It is a FACT, that the FBI said that the tuft of fibers they found on the butt plate of the rifle matched the shirt that Lee was wearing when he was arrested. Since Lee had changed his shirts about 45 minutes before he was arrested there is only one way a tuft of clean fresh fibers from the arrest shirt could have been deposited on the butt of the rifle ...The shirt was rubbed against the butt of the rifle after both the shirt and the rifle were in the hands of the police.
It is a FACT that Detective Studebaker measured the distance from the N. wall to the exact spot where the rifle was discovered....ON THE FLOOR... That distance was 15 feet 4 inches....and about 5 feet from the aisle that LBJ's cover up committee theorized that the 5 foot 9 inch tall, arch villain, commie, back shooting murderer, Lee Harrrrrrvey Ossssswald ( Boooo Hissss) dashed through when he reached across the 5 foot span with the 8 pound rifle and carefully hid it beneath a pallet and then stacked boxes of books around and over it....
Do you want me to list more FACTS?
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It is my opinion that he didn't expect to get out alive or that he would be apprehended after shooting JFK. In his mind, since he didn't expect to be shot and killed after he was arrested at the TT it was during the trial that his stature as a political figure of the left would be cemented. I think that's why he was adamant that Abt would represent him.
IMO the walker evidence does not help convict LHO at all
It does point out huge inconsistencies in the WC's version of events
Eddie, photos of the Walker residence dated to weeks before the actual shooting were found in either the Paine's or in the Beckley rooming house. Those photos (or a photo) was traced to his IRC to the exclusion of any other camera. If the case had gone to trial it's possible that the DeMohrenchilds would have been subpoeaned and their encounter with St. Oswald the Patsy about the Walker shooting could have had some value in connecting Oswald to the shooting. Without Marina's testimony though it would have been tough to convict Oswald for the Walker shooting. That I will admit. But for historical purposes where the evidence does not have to pass the rigors of the evidentiary procedures of a trial it's clear that Oswald attempted to murder Walker, IMHO. Where are does inconsistencies in the WR?
Mr Narvarroo...No matter how humble your opinion might be.... It's true value and a buck will get you a cup of coffee at Mc D's
it's clear that Oswald attempted to murder Walker, IMHO.
Really??.... You can know the intent of the shooter simply by examining the physical evidence?...Really??
How do you know for a FACT that Walker was even in the room at the time the bullet was fired through the window?....How do you know that Walker himself didn't fire the bullet and then pretend that someone had shot at him?
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But you've said that Lee Oswald murdered JFK so that the name Lee Harvey Oswald would be known all over the globe....You said that he was seeking fame.... But he expected to be killed...And yet he left not a single word or note that he had shot anybody....Nor did he proclaim to the world that he had shot JFK when he was paraded out in front of a mob at midnight... On the contrary....He steadfastly denied that he had shot anybody
Why in the world would LHO need to leave a note to announce to the world that he had shot JFK when the deed alone would grant him the notoriety he seeked? Isn't that what occurred? Oswald's denials are meaningless considering that what he wanted was the public notoriety now that he found himself in the lucky position of still being alive after shooting a cop and the POTUS. In case it has escaped you Oswald was loaded for bear after leaving the rooming house. He left the rooming house with a loaded revolver and at least nine more bullets in his pocket. He was prepared to fight it out and demonstrated it at the TT. There Oswald claimed police brutality after he attempted to shoot a cop while being apprehended. Do Oswald's shrieks and pleas appear to have a legitimate basis for grievance or isn't it more likely that his cries were for public consumption only?
Psssst... Oscar, Lee Oswald was apprehended .....
So on one hand you say He thought he would be killed.... But on the other hand you say he thought he would be apprehended....
Either way...He would have proclaimed his deed, to the world, if he had been the assassin who was seeking fame....
Can you understand how silly your theory is?
Killed or aprehendeed. You can't even follow what you highlight. BTW, my theory is based on verifiable facts unlike yours, which are baseless assertions.
In case it has escaped you Oswald was loaded for bear after leaving the rooming house. He left the rooming house with a loaded revolver and at least nine more bullets in his pocket.
Would I be asking too much If I asked you to PROVE that Lee had the revolver and the ammo when he left the rooming house?
There doesn't seem to be a lot of evidence that he has any ammo in his pockets at the theater.....Because that ammo wasn't even mentioned until over two hours after he was brought in from the Texas Theater.... I'd say somethings a bit fishy about that ammo because he was searched after he was dragged from the theater and no bullets were found on his person....And even the cop who said that "someone" handed him "Oswald's revolver" in the theater didn't know for a fact that Lee had had that revolver on his person....
So the revolver and bullets appeared much later ... How do you KNOW that Lee carried them from the rooming house?
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This post is a result of attempting to verify the details posted on the Ed Forum of a John T Martin, born November 9, 1943 in California, who was old enough to have served in Germany in the 24th I.D. under Gen. Walker's command. I tracked down that John T Martin via his father's 2004 and his older sister's 2018 obits.
He resides in Minnesota, under the name Tim, graduated high school in 1962 and served in the US Navy until 1966, including in the naval blockade of Cuba in late October, and is very patriotic. A newsletter of his neighborhood provided enough detail about him to eliminate him, resulting in further searching
revealing the correct Martin, elusive since Gary drove him to his home in 1968, borrowed his film, and made at least one copy which he could not locate in 2012. This new, radicalized younger fellow, was last accounted for no later than 2013 in a list of alumni donors of his (militarized) high school graduating year.
I've spent some time searching and I found no mention on this forum of the intriguing coincidence of a young man from St. Paul, MN, a 17 year old Minuteman
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=89629&relPageId=60&search=%221752_iglehart%22 ("Chess" is also mentioned in the new Martin's profile)
in summer, 1963, journeying to Gen. Edwin Walker's leased Turtle Creek home, filming a bullet hole through a interior wall, apparently with Gen. Walker's approval or encouragement, travelling to New Orleans shortly thereafter, and managing to also capture Oswald distributing leaflets on the same film reel on August 9, 1963.
There is no way to confirm the Sixth Floor Museum presents the entire film. Martin suspected it was altered, in reaction to re-viewing the original and then only reel after the FBI returned it to him in late January, 1964, after borrowing it in response to his offer to the FBI for a review. NOLA FBI claimed it was not found to be useful.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=60411&relPageId=104&search=%221752_iglehart%22
https://emuseum.jfk.org/objects/36908/john-t-martin-film
https://jfkassassinationfiles.wordpress.com/2017/01/13/the-oswald-films-an-outline/
2a. The Jack Martin film (August 9, 1963)
...Watch from 0:40 through 1:09 for the General Walker footage, and 2:39 through 2:53 for the Oswald New Orleans footage. ...
In the third week of January, 1963, federal charges resulting from the Sept., 1962 Mississippi race riots against Gen. Walker were dropped but the DOJ retained the option of reinstating the charges until Sept., 1968.
https://www.nytimes.com/1963/01/22/archives/riot-charges-against-walker-and-6-others-dropped-by-us-walker.html?searchResultPosition=2
I have discovered that this young Minnesota film maker, John T Martin, called for the abolition of the U.S. Supreme Court in early 1963. He seems the most proudly radical political extremist I've noticed in a high school setting.
Was his filming, especially in New Orleans on August 9, simply random "luck"? What evidence remains to support that he actually captured on film what I described above? Had he met or been in communication with Gen. Walker, pre-dating making arrangements to visit him? It is unlikely a boy of his age could have performed active duty coinciding with Gen. Walker's pre-retirement.
If John T. Martin (Gary had met him in 1968) had told Gary he served under Gen. Walker in Germany, and consider Gary was recalling, cold, a 40 year old conversation, and Martin's age when Gen. Walker resigned made serving under him unlikely, how likely was his claim of pivoting from right oriented extremist to demilitarized "pacifist"?
Gary was a mid-20s friend of Harold Weisberg and said in 2012 their interest was only about the New Orleans faces on the film, not were yet aware of the Walker visit and bullet hole filming.
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/4738-jack-s-martin-sr/page/3/?tab=comments#comment-244473
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From: Gary Schoener
Sent: SaPersonay, January 21, 2012 7:17 AM
To: Paul Trejo
Subject: Re: Seeking the 1968 companion of Harold Weisberg...
Yes, the person is me. I was a longtime friend and co-worker with Harold. The comment about John Martin being a "student" makes me wonder whether my memory is correct. I remember him as late 20's or early 30's, but that was a long time ago. My memory was that we encountered him when he phone a radio station, not at a talk -- he called into a radio show that Harold and I did together. (I had arranged for Harold to speak a the U. of Minnesota, but believe that the radio show which followed was where we heard from him).
Ironically, on that same show a photography professional whose last name was Patsy called in and he ended up taking the Martin film and printing it out. That's how we discovered that LHO appeared to be paying attention and possibly even gesturing to someone else walking parallel to him. One figure in the film was very fat and Harold immediately remarked it looked like Dean Andrews, although there are a ton of fat people in NO and there was no way that you could see his face.
The only things I recall were that John was formerly a right-winger who was a member of the John Birch Society and the Minutemen, but somehow serving under Gen. Edwin Walker in Germany caused him to become a pacifist and have to be dischrged from the army.
The film was taken on a family trip and the other segment on it showed the zoo in NO.
We did go to his home, but I have no idea where that was. I don't even know if it was in Mpls. or St. Paul.
He took it to the FBI who copied it, but did not realize until we examined it that the FBI had returned a copy, not the original. He believed that what they gave back to him was edited but was not 100% sure. He thought some footage was missing.
Gary Schoener
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I don't think Oswald had a doggone thing to do with Gen Walker and General Walker didn't either.
Edwin Walker also thought that the Warren Report was a whitewash.
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I don't think Oswald had a doggone thing to do with Gen Walker and General Walker didn't either.
Edwin Walker also thought that the Warren Report was a whitewash.
Please Explain the reason that Lee had created a false dossier that included photos of Walker's house and the vicinity near Walker's house.
And please explain how Marina knew all about the "attempt" to shoot Walker. She couldn't have learned about it from Radio or TV because she didn't understand English....Nor could she have learned about the shot through Walker's window from newspaper's ...
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Please Explain the reason that Lee had created a false dossier that included photos of Walker's house and the vicinity near Walker's house.
And please explain how Marina knew all about the "attempt" to shoot Walker. She couldn't have learned about it from Radio or TV because she didn't understand English....Nor could she have learned about the shot through Walker's window from newspaper's ...
Bingo! Walt. This "film maker" in summer, 1963, links Gen. Walker to Oswald. His background is opposite extreme of Oswald's patsyfied background.
Was John T. Martin a "back up, Patsy"? Quite busy and character rich background noise, especially for an LN loser. Ed Butler, the radio debate, Osborne/Bowen on the Mexican bus, Another Bowen used as mask for John Cesar Grossi, bro-in-law of Dial Ryder, witness/ temp landlady Mary Bledsoe related to RD Matthews, William Whaley age change, lost military combat award, etc.
A 17 year old, military high school senior and a 24 year old former, USMC defector to USSR. How much controversy could be packed into two "suitcases" as young as Martin and Oswald without blowing up their Walker connections?
......
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=89629&relPageId=60&search=%221752_iglehart%22
(http://jfkforum.com/images/EdwinWalkerMartinWeathermanCRP.jpg)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/EdwinWalkerMartinCRP.jpg)
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Please Explain the reason that Lee had created a false dossier that included photos of Walker's house and the vicinity near Walker's house.
And please explain how Marina knew all about the "attempt" to shoot Walker. She couldn't have learned about it from Radio or TV because she didn't understand English....Nor could she have learned about the shot through Walker's window from newspaper's ...
''Explain the reason that Lee had created a false dossier that included photos of Walker's house and the vicinity near Walker's house''.
How do we really know that Oswald actually did all of that?
" ..explain how Marina knew all about the "attempt" to shoot Walker."
After the assassination a lot was 'revealed' to Marina. That Oswald owned a rifle...that she took the pictures of him with it...that he planned on killing Nixon...that he tried to kill Walker...that he beat her often...and on and on.
She could play ball or be on the next plane back to Moscow.
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''Explain the reason that Lee had created a false dossier that included photos of Walker's house and the vicinity near Walker's house''.
How do we really know that Oswald actually did all of that?
" ..explain how Marina knew all about the "attempt" to shoot Walker."
After the assassination a lot was 'revealed' to Marina. That Oswald owned a rifle...that she took the pictures of him with it...that he planned on killing Nixon...that he tried to kill Walker...that he beat her often...and on and on.
She could play ball or be on the next plane back to Moscow.
How do we really know that Oswald actually did all of that?
You have two good eyes....LOOK at page 113 of Chief Curry's book ..... There are photos that were taken by the DPD on the evening of 11/22/63. The photos show Lee Oswald's possessions which the DPD took ( illegally) from the Paine Residence that afternoon....
The photo of Walker's house is clearly visible among Lee's possessions...but the cops had no idea that they had Lee's false dossier.
Even the FBI never knew that Lee had been involved in the Walker Hoax until the story appeared in a German News paper in early December. After that story was published ...The FBI started asking Marina questions about the Walker incident....and she gave them many of the details.
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How do we really know that Oswald actually did all of that?
You have two good eyes....LOOK at page 113 of Chief Curry's book ..... There are photos that were taken by the DPD on the evening of 11/22/63. The photos show Lee Oswald's possessions which the DPD took ( illegally) from the Paine Residence that afternoon....
How would anybody know which items did or did not belong to Oswald?
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How would anybody know which items did or did not belong to Oswald?
Or which items just happened to conveniently show up. I thought that was what I was asking.
You know everybody--- Dead men tell no tales---Yes, it's true...But in this case...we have everybody else telling them for him :-\
In all the history of mankind, I don't think that anybody had ever left more incriminating "evidence" behind than what Oswald supposedly did.
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How would anybody know which items did or did not belong to Oswald?
Are you actually denying that the photo of Walker's house that is seen in the photo on page 133 of Curry's book was not among Lee Oswald's possessions??
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Are you actually denying that the photo of Walker's house that is seen in the photo on page 133 of Curry's book was not among Lee Oswald's possessions??
Like I said, how would you know which items were Lee Oswald’s possessions?
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Like I said, how would you know which items were Lee Oswald’s possessions?
You're simply being a contrarian and perverse..... We both know that the police grabbed a carload of Lee's possessions and hauled it to the police station that afternoon. They had no idea what they had grabbed, but they documented the grab by placing placards among the stuff they had purloined, that said... " Voluntarily given Dallas PD by Ruth Paine and Mrs Oswald Paine's residence Irving Tex 11/22/ 63 "
The photo that the DPD took shows the controversial photo lying on the blue note book that was the false dossier that Lee had created. I've long suspected that CE 133A ( the Back Yard photo) was there in that notebook but the police didn't find it until the early hours of SaPersonay, and they knew they couldn't use it in court if the case came to trial because they had illegally grabbed that evidence without a search warrant ..... Thus they pretended to discover the BY photo when they had obtained a search warrant on SaPersonay afternoon.
But let's stay on track.... Lee Oswald had in his possessions a photo of Walker's house ..... And we have ample evidence that he was involved in the Walker HOAX.... Which was NOT an actual attempt to kill Walker.
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LOOK at page 113 of Chief Curry's book ..... There are photos that were taken by the DPD on the evening of 11/22/63. The photos show Lee Oswald's possessions which the DPD took ( illegally) from the Paine Residence that afternoon....
Even the FBI never knew that Lee had been involved in the Walker Hoax until the story appeared in a German News paper in early December. After that story was published ...The FBI started asking Marina questions about the Walker incident....and she gave them many of the details.
I believe [on the other hand] that someone gave Marina the details so that she could relay them to the Warren Commission :-\
(https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/samsebeskazal/21464625/878637/878637_1000.jpg)
^
Picture above is from the mcadams site^
A whole bunch of stuff on this Russian site...some pictures I have never seen before-----
https://samsebeskazal.livejournal.com/368662.html
The missing Minox.....
(http://www.freehomepage.com/jfkresearch/fdecomb.jpg)
http://www.freehomepage.com/jfkresearch/fdecomb.jpg
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You're simply being a contrarian and perverse..... We both know that the police grabbed a carload of Lee's possessions and hauled it to the police station that afternoon.
So you have no answer for how you know they were Oswald’s possessions then.
The photo that the DPD took shows the controversial photo lying on the blue note book that was the false dossier that Lee had created.
Your “false dossier” fabrication and your “Walker hoax” fabrication are no more compelling than the stories the LNers come up with.
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So you have no answer for how you know they were Oswald’s possessions then.
Your “false dossier” fabrication and your “Walker hoax” fabrication are no more compelling than the stories the LNers come up with.
John, I brought this thread back to the first page because I found "this guy," two days ago....
(http://jfkforum.com/images/JohnTMartin1963CRP.jpg)
John, what are you and Walt debating about? Why not just agree this is all hinky, and call it a day, for now?
Please interrupt, if you object to any of the following points.
The young man above was on the Minuteman membership list in 1963, he was a "very conservative republican," wanting to "abolish the Supreme Court," and had a mocking opinion of FDR intense enough to be displayed, along with his political party affiliation and his opinion of SCOTUS, in his high school yearbook profile.
Just after graduating high school in 1963 in St. Paul, MN, he flies to Dallas, meets with Edwin Walker, films Walker's mailbox to I.D. it in the very short 8mm color film he was taking, and, on August 9, on the same reel, films LHO and his leaflets in NOLA. In December, he offers the film to the FBI.
DPD served up this photo, allegedly found in Oswald's seized belongings.:
(http://jfkforum.com/images/EdwinWalkerDrivewayBlackedOutLicensePlate.jpg)
Six years later, in his book, then retired DPD Chief Curry serves up this version.:
(http://jfkforum.com/images/OswaldWalkersDriveway1957ChevyCurryBook.jpg)
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John, I brought this thread back to the first page because I found "this guy," two days ago....
(http://jfkforum.com/images/JohnTMartin1963CRP.jpg)
John, what are you and Walt debating about? Why not just agree this is all hinky, and call it a day, for now?
Please interrupt, if you object to any of the following points.
The young man above was on the Minuteman membership list in 1963, he was a "very conservative republican," wanting to "abolish the Supreme Court," and had a mocking opinion of FDR intense enough to be displayed, along with his political party affiliation and his opinion of SCOTUS, in his high school yearbook profile.
Just after graduating high school in 1963 in St. Paul, MN, he flies to Dallas, meets with Edwin Walker, films Walker's mailbox to I.D. it in the very short 8mm color film he was taking, and, on August 9, on the same reel, films LHO and his leaflets in NOLA. In December, he offers the film to the FBI.
DPD served up this photo, allegedly found in Oswald's seized belongings.:
(http://jfkforum.com/images/EdwinWalkerDrivewayBlackedOutLicensePlate.jpg)
Six years later, in his book, then retired DPD Chief Curry serves up this version.:
(http://jfkforum.com/images/OswaldWalkersDriveway1957ChevyCurryBook.jpg)
These two photos may have been made from the same negative ...but they are NOT the same print. Clearly the print that was published on page 113 of Curry's book has not had the license plate obliterated and it is not damaged ..... But I fail to understand how it's possible for any rational person to deny that Lee had an undamaged (Walker house) photo among his possessions on 11/22/63.
DPD served up this photo, allegedly found in Oswald's seized belongings.:
(http://jfkforum.com/images/EdwinWalkerDrivewayBlackedOutLicensePlate.jpg)
Six years later, in his book, then retired DPD Chief Curry serves up this version.:
(http://jfkforum.com/images/OswaldWalkersDriveway1957ChevyCurryBook.jpg)
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Clearly the print that was published on page 113 of Curry's book has not had the license plate obliterated and it is not damaged .....
Someone did not want that vehicle traced. Is that not suspicious in itself?
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Someone did not want that vehicle traced. Is that not suspicious in itself?
Yes, Jerry it's obvious that someone in authority with the police or FBI did NOT want the owner of that 1957 Chevy identified.
I know that you don't believe Marina ( Which is unfortunate) but Marina was emphatic that the license plate was intact when the FBI presented the photo to her in early December.(on Dec 2nd ?)and asked her if she knew whose house was pictured in the photo.....And she told them she thought that it was General Walker's house.
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Marina was emphatic that the license plate was intact when the FBI presented the photo to her in early December....
I can believe that. ... asked her if she knew whose house was pictured in the photo.....And she told them she thought that it was General Walker's house.
Well...someone told her this.
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I can believe that. Well...someone told her this.
someone told her this.
Yes ....You're right. It's very doubtful that Marina would have guessed that it was Walker's house in the photo. Lee told her that it was Walker's house.
At the time the FBI started questioning her about the contents of the blue notebook ( the false dossier) they knew very little about Lee's involvement in the Walker Hoax. They had learned the the story in the German newspaper had originated with Walker when Walker called his friend, who was the editor of the paper, in Germany on SaPersonay morning 11/23/63 and told that editor that Lee Oswald was the man who had tried to kill him in April of 1963.
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John, I brought this thread back to the first page because I found "this guy," two days ago....
(http://jfkforum.com/images/JohnTMartin1963CRP.jpg)
John, what are you and Walt debating about? Why not just agree this is all hinky, and call it a day, for now?
Please interrupt, if you object to any of the following points.
The young man above was on the Minuteman membership list in 1963, he was a "very conservative republican," wanting to "abolish the Supreme Court," and had a mocking opinion of FDR intense enough to be displayed, along with his political party affiliation and his opinion of SCOTUS, in his high school yearbook profile.
Just after graduating high school in 1963 in St. Paul, MN, he flies to Dallas, meets with Edwin Walker, films Walker's mailbox to I.D. it in the very short 8mm color film he was taking, and, on August 9, on the same reel, films LHO and his leaflets in NOLA. In December, he offers the film to the FBI.
DPD served up this photo, allegedly found in Oswald's seized belongings.:
(http://jfkforum.com/images/EdwinWalkerDrivewayBlackedOutLicensePlate.jpg)
Six years later, in his book, then retired DPD Chief Curry serves up this version.:
(http://jfkforum.com/images/OswaldWalkersDriveway1957ChevyCurryBook.jpg)
Six years later, in his book, then retired DPD Chief Curry serves up this version.:
(http://jfkforum.com/images/OswaldWalkersDriveway1957ChevyCurryBook.jpg)
The photo that you posted (seen above) is not as clear as the photo in Curry's book.
Do you have Curry's book, JFK Assassination File ? The Walker house photo can be seen on page 113....And in the book it looks like the license plate on the Chevy in that photo might still be legible ( A photo expert might be able to enhance the photo )
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I have found John T Martin's middle name, associated in 1964, in print friom a reliable, neutral source, with his address in both an FBI report and in a Minuteman membership list, "1752 Iglehart St. Paul, MN, I know the grammer school, the high school, and the university John T Martin attended
.... but I cannot locate him or even his D.O.B.. Gary Mack was partially to blame for concealing the adult (post high school background) of this elusive person of interest.
In fairness to readers and to Gary Mack, I do not have a high degree of confidence in anything Paul posts... He refers to Martin as "Jack" attributing the
reason to Martin Shackleford, 23 years ago, in 1996.:
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/23168-jack-t-martin/?tab=comments#comment-336512
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/23168-jack-t-martin/?tab=comments#comment-336512
Paul Trejo - October 31, 2016
....I implored Gary Mack to set up an interview with Jack T. Martin, but Gary told me that the sole condition for obtaining the Jack Martin film was that Jack T. Martin must never be contacted by anybody at any time. So, Gary refused to give me Martin's contact info....
Weisberg describes how he encountered Martin in 1968, obtaining copies of his film, and the suspected, almost immediate theft of one copy of the Martin film.:
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/HW%20Manuscripts/Inside%20the%20Assassination%20Industry/Itai-18.pdf
Johann Rush filmed Oswald near the Trade Mart for WDSU....
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/R%20Disk/Rush%20John/Item%2024.pdf
(http://jfkforum.com/images/OswaldMartinSnakeBreederWDSUJohannRush.jpg)
So, where are we going, with this? At this point, who knows....? Is internet search a help or a hinderance?
https://jadedibispress.com/2013/08/04/for-both-doubt-and-belief-allow/
August 4, 2013 For Both Doubt And Belief, Allow
My mother has come back from a trip to New Orleans and given me a piece of gris gris, a little piece of voodoo. It’s a little blue bag, big enough to hold a large olive, tied at the top with a black string. It smells faintly of men’s deodorant. I understand that it’s meant as a piece of touristy kitch, but I can’t help wanting it to be more than that.
The gris gris comes in a small ziplock bag that includes a small note indicating that this particular piece of gris girs is for “success, happiness, and good health.” It has been prepared by the one and only Dr. John T. Martin, who’s photo has been included in the Ziploc back. An older man, possibly in in his 60s with white hair peers from behind oversized glasses like a stern middle school vice principle. In the photo, he’s wrapped a snake around his shoulders and waist. It is a very large snake, holding him looks uncomfortable. Also the photo is small, so it’s hard to tell where the snake ends.
Dr. Martin seems both terrifying and ridiculous. I imagine that he’s done the photo shoot all by himself with a tripod and a timer on the camera. He spent the afternoon with a set up in his living room or maybe he has a voodoo studio. From the look on his face he is either deadly serious or this is a complete joke that he plays up for tourists. I’m worried that I cannot tell the difference.The instructions go on: “The gris gris (mojo) bag invokes the spirit of Yemaya who is the Goddess of the Sea and protector of the home. She brings success, happiness, and good health. Men carry the bag in the right pocket. Women in the left pocket or purse. You may leave it under your pillow or hang it as a ju-ju.” I think it would be great to get a little success, happiness, and good health in my life. I don’t feel that I’m particularly lacking, but a little extra would be nice. This probably makes me greedy, but I’m not sure that there is a Salvation Army for mojo. So, I’m trying to find a way to incorporate the gris gris into my life. Right now it is sitting next to my computer on top of my manuscript. If anything needs a little good health it’s my manuscript.....
....
Dylan Babb is writer in North Carolina. She has an MFA in Creative Writing from Antioch University in Los Angeles. You can read more of her work at The Missing Slate and her website. When she’s not looking for the perfect Sazerac, she’s writing fairy tales.”
Author: admin1....
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DPD served up this photo, allegedly found in Oswald's seized belongings.:
(http://jfkforum.com/images/EdwinWalkerDrivewayBlackedOutLicensePlate.jpg)
Six years later, in his book, then retired DPD Chief Curry serves up this version.:
(http://jfkforum.com/images/OswaldWalkersDriveway1957ChevyCurryBook.jpg)
The photo in Curry's book has the same cut-out in the same place, it's the background behind the cut-out that has changed.
(https://i.postimg.cc/PqXKvFQp/walker-plate1.gif)
JohnM
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The photo in Curry's book has the same cut-out in the same place, it's the background behind the cut-out that has changed.
(https://i.postimg.cc/PqXKvFQp/walker-plate1.gif)
JohnM
Mr Mytton...A visit to your Optometrist is advised....
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Someone did not want that vehicle traced. Is that not suspicious in itself?
Walt ...I am inclined to agree with Mr Mytton [about the background] Someone tore out the plate and left a hole in the picture. No one will ever know who or when. Also there is all that stuff on page 111 [I can't find it on google images]
Oswald didn't take all that stuff to New Orleans so that left it unguarded when everyone else was there also.
Marina lied...there was no rifle in New Orleans.
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Why would someone need to hack up a large section of the photo to remove a relatively small number plate and wouldn't someone just black it out with a pen/marker or use a sharp knife because it wouldn't be easy to tear out a very small section of photographic paper?
The top edges of the photo has water damage which has affected the entire top half of the image and if you look around the hole in the car, a similar water stain has started from the edges which means that the hole was there long enough to receive similar water damage and therefore the cut-out wasn't just done by the cops when the photo of Walker's house was discovered.
(https://i.postimg.cc/QMj8nMPz/Walker-by-Oswalda.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/KvdhCYKN/Walker-by-Osw-ald-car.jpg)
JohnM
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Why would someone need to hack up a large section of the photo to remove a relatively small number plate and wouldn't someone just black it out with a pen/marker or use a sharp knife because it wouldn't be easy to tear out a very small section of photographic paper?
The top edges of the photo has water damage which has affected the entire top half of the image and if you look around the hole in the car, a similar water stain has started from the edges which means that the hole was there long enough to receive similar water damage and therefore the cut-out wasn't just done by the cops when the photo of Walker's house was discovered.
(https://i.postimg.cc/QMj8nMPz/Walker-by-Oswalda.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/KvdhCYKN/Walker-by-Osw-ald-car.jpg)
JohnM
Why would someone need to hack up a large section of the photo to remove a relatively small number plate and wouldn't someone just black it out with a pen/marker or use a sharp knife because it wouldn't be easy to tear out a very small section of photographic paper?
Because whoever destroyed the license plate did it hastily and surreptitiously.....with a wet thumbnail.....
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Because whoever destroyed the license plate did it hastily and surreptitiously.....with a wet thumbnail.....
Surely "whoever" would realize that the shade and make of car were still clearly visible and a match could easily be narrowed down and considering the photo wasn't essential to convicting Oswald, wouldn't it be easier and safer to just lose the photo?
(https://i.postimg.cc/KvdhCYKN/Walker-by-Osw-ald-car.jpg)
JohnM
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Surely "whoever" would realize that the shade and make of car were still clearly visible and a match could easily be narrowed down and considering the photo wasn't essential to convicting Oswald, wouldn't it be easier and safer to just lose the photo?
The Oswald stalked Walker story would also be 'lost' wouldn't you think?
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The Oswald stalked Walker story would also be 'lost' wouldn't you think?
You seem to be struggling to grasp this....
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=60411&relPageId=104&search=1752_iglehart
2. FBI 105-82555 Oswald HQ File, Section 236, pg 104
Found in: FBI Oswald Headquarters File (105-82555)
12/23/6 Minneapolis airtel to New Orleans 12/31/6 New-Orleans letter to Minneapolis 1/21/64 " For the information of all offices, JOHN MARTIN, ;L... f 1752
Iglehart, Apt. 4, St.
....
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/23168-jack-t-martin/?tab=comments#comment-336512
Paul Trejo - October 31, 2016
....I implored Gary Mack to set up an interview with Jack T. Martin, but Gary told me that the sole condition for obtaining the Jack Martin film was that Jack T. Martin must never be contacted by anybody at any time. So, Gary refused to give me Martin's contact info....
......
https://emuseum.jfk.org/objects/36908/john-t-martin-film
(http://jfkforum.com/images/OswaldJohnTMartinFilmWalker_1min51sec.jpg)
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Why would someone need to hack up a large section of the photo to remove a relatively small number plate and wouldn't someone just black it out with a pen/marker or use a sharp knife because it wouldn't be easy to tear out a very small section of photographic paper?
The top edges of the photo has water damage which has affected the entire top half of the image and if you look around the hole in the car, a similar water stain has started from the edges which means that the hole was there long enough to receive similar water damage and therefore the cut-out wasn't just done by the cops when the photo of Walker's house was discovered.
(https://i.postimg.cc/QMj8nMPz/Walker-by-Oswalda.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/KvdhCYKN/Walker-by-Osw-ald-car.jpg)
JohnM
(https://i.postimg.cc/QMj8nMPz/Walker-by-Oswalda.jpg)
This is an excellent copy of the photo that Mytton thinks is the exact same photo that the DPD photographed among Lee Oswald's purloined possessions at the Dallas police station on the night of 11/22- 23/ 63. Mytton thinks it's the same photo but the hole in the photo where the license plate would be isn't visible because the background behind the hole is light colored like the color of the 57 Chevy.
Clearly it's NOT the same photo of Walker's house because not only is there a hole in the photo where the license plate would be but there is also a very visible crease just to the left of the car. That crease ( caused by folding the photo) would be visible in the DPD purloined evidence photo if it was the same photo. And there is NO CREASE on the DPD purloined evidence photo. (see below)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/OswaldWalkersDriveway1957ChevyCurryBook.jpg)
There can be no doubt that Marina was correct when she said that there was NO HOLE in the photo when the FBI showed her a Walker house photo in early December. Obviously the photo was damaged AFTER the FBI displayed the photo to Marina.
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The photo in Curry's book has the same cut-out in the same place, it's the background behind the cut-out that has changed.
https://i.postimg.cc/PqXKvFQp/walker-plate1.gif
JohnM
You should credit Dr. John McAdams, from his book, "How to think about claims...."
Exactly two years after the Warren Report was published. Wesley Liebler voiced his concerns about the torn out license plate photo in a letter to FBI Director Hoover.
Liebler asked if the FBI had interviewed Charles Klihr, a T.I. employee who owned an identical 1957 Chevy, was a Walker volunteer and frequent Walker visitor.
Pg. 1 https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62389&relPageId=138
Pg. 2 https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62389&search=surrey_and+klihr#relPageId=139
(http://jfkforum.com/images/OswaldEdwinWalkerDrivewayLicensePlateLieblerHoover1966.jpg)
Hoover's response to Liebler was, the FBI turned over the records of investigative work to the National Archive, make your inquiry there.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62389&search=surrey_and+klihr#relPageId=140
Hoover's internal response was, "don't give Wesley Liebler "nuthin'."
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62389&search=surrey_and+klihr#relPageId=141
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You should credit Dr. John McAdams, from his book, "How to think about claims...."
Exactly two years after the Warren Report was published. Wesley Liebler voiced his concerns about the torn out license plate photo in a letter to FBI Director Hoover.
Liebler asked if the FBI had interviewed Charles Klihr, a T.I. employee who owned an identical 1957 Chevy, was a Walker volunteer and frequent Walker visitor.
Pg. 1 https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62389&relPageId=138
Pg. 2 https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62389&search=surrey_and+klihr#relPageId=139
(http://jfkforum.com/images/OswaldEdwinWalkerDrivewayLicensePlateLieblerHoover1966.jpg)
Hoover's response to Liebler was, the FBI turned over the records of investigative work to the National Archive, make your inquiry there.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62389&search=surrey_and+klihr#relPageId=140
Hoover's internal response was, "don't give Wesley Liebler "nuthin'."
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62389&search=surrey_and+klihr#relPageId=141
Hoover's internal response was, "don't give Wesley Liebler "nuthin'."
Yes, and his letter to Liebler basically told Liebler to call his file clerk Helen Waite.... If you want that information Mr Liebler... Please go to Helen Waite.
Thank you for your post Tom.... As we can see this issue was never resolved... The FBI knew who owned that 57 Chevy and so did Walker. Obviously Lee took that photo to establish that "someone" ( probably an FBI agent) was visiting Walker, and the photo verified that fact. Incidentally, Did you know that Lee also took a nearly identical photo but in place of the 57 Chevy there was a 1953 Ford parked behind Walker's house?
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You should credit Dr. John McAdams, from his book, "How to think about claims...."
Exactly two years after the Warren Report was published. Wesley Liebler voiced his concerns about the torn out license plate photo in a letter to FBI Director Hoover.
Liebler asked if the FBI had interviewed Charles Klihr, a T.I. employee who owned an identical 1957 Chevy, was a Walker volunteer and frequent Walker visitor.
Pg. 1 https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62389&relPageId=138
Pg. 2 https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62389&search=surrey_and+klihr#relPageId=139
(http://jfkforum.com/images/OswaldEdwinWalkerDrivewayLicensePlateLieblerHoover1966.jpg)
Hoover's response to Liebler was, the FBI turned over the records of investigative work to the National Archive, make your inquiry there.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62389&search=surrey_and+klihr#relPageId=140
Hoover's internal response was, "don't give Wesley Liebler "nuthin'."
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62389&search=surrey_and+klihr#relPageId=141
This is off track...... BUT.... I LOL every time I hear the current news reports saying that the FBI is less than a honest, all American, Red, White & Blue, law enforcement agency that works diligently for the American people. BULL S_ _ _ !! The news media acts like the FBI has always been an honest and venerated American institution..... Where the hell have they been?? We have many many documents that reveal the corruption of the FBI.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62389&search=surrey_and+klihr#relPageId=141
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Walt ...I am inclined to agree with Mr Mytton [about the background] Someone tore out the plate and left a hole in the picture. No one will ever know who or when. Also there is all that stuff on page 111 [I can't find it on google images]
Oswald didn't take all that stuff to New Orleans so that left it unguarded when everyone else was there also.
Marina lied...there was no rifle in New Orleans.
Marina lied...there was no rifle in New Orleans.
Jerry, You're tying an anvil around yer neck and then entering a maraton..... You don't have a snow-ball's- chance..to win this race .
Marina wasn't lying....She saw Lee looking over a rifle in the Apartment in New Orlean's.... I'm confident that the rifle was NOT the Mannlicher Carcano that George De Morhenschildt wanted back before he departed Dallas on April, 25 1963. I suspect that Lee had a rifle that he got from Adrian Alba or one of Guy Bannister's "associates" and acted like he was interested taking the rifle to a rifle range to examine it and test it..... That's the rifle that Marina saw him "playing" with in New Orleans. The Mannlicher Carcano never left Dallas after the Walker Hoax.... Demorhenschildt got the Carcano back from Lee after Lee retrieved it from beneath the brush pile where he had placed it for the DPD detectives to find..... When G de M... got the rifle back he placed it in storage in Dallas before high tailing it out of town, after he had told an FBI informant ( Voshinin) that Lee Oswald was the scoundrel who had taken the "pot shot" at General Walker.
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You seem to be struggling to grasp this....
If you say so Tom :)
You always want to seem fathoms ahead. Can you possibly connect some dots that aren't so many light years apart?
There is a lot of smoke all around---but the fire was out years ago.
I went to a General Walker speech [one] at a Dallas Kiwanis Club meeting when I was a kid. A neighbor [member] across the alley asked me if I wanted to go.
I remember that every time the general said words like 'presence' 'present' 'precedent' or 'preside' it always came out 'president' before he corrected himself. Can we say obsessed?
So meanwhile back at the ranch- I get you....Jack T Martin---under Walkers command in Germany---Minutemen----what else?
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If you say so Tom :)
You always want to seem fathoms ahead. Can you possibly connect some dots that aren't so many light years apart?
There is a lot of smoke all around---but the fire was out years ago.
I went to a General Walker speech [one] at a Dallas Kiwanis Club meeting when I was a kid. A neighbor [member] across the alley asked me if I wanted to go.
I remember that every time the general said words like 'presence' 'present' 'precedent' or 'preside' it always came out 'president' before he corrected himself. Can we say obsessed?
So meanwhile back at the ranch- I get you....Jack T Martin---under Walkers command in Germany---Minutemen----what else?
Walker was indoctrinating the soldiers in his command. Walker was a Fascist and he hated Communists.... but he had no business indoctrinating GI's in the belief's of the minutemen.... JFK learned of Walker's perfidy after Walker openly called for JFK to be shot following the BOP fiasco..... And JFK relieved him of his command and ordered that Walker be reassigned to the US.
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Walker was indoctrinating the soldiers in his command. Walker was a Fascist and he hated Communists.... but he had no business indoctrinating GI's in the belief's of the minutemen.... JFK learned of Walker's perfidy after Walker openly called for JFK to be shot following the BOP fiasco..... And JFK relieved him of his command and ordered that Walker be reassigned to the US.
As a side note.... https://revcom.us/a/045/minutemen-enforcers-of-death.html
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Respectfully, this contribution lacks meaning. There is extremely little evidence that suspect Oswald was the one who shot at Ger. Walker, and this is simply part of the hokey "Official Narrative," meant to implicate Oswald and employ him as the designated patsy in the case.
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Respectfully, this contribution lacks meaning. There is extremely little evidence that suspect Oswald was the one who shot at Ger. Walker, and this is simply part of the hokey "Official Narrative," meant to implicate Oswald and employ him as the designated patsy in the case.
The Walker HOAX had nothing at all to do with the coup d'e-tat in Dealey Plaza...... But after the FBI discovered that Lee had been involved in the Walker Hoax it serve their purposes very nicely to frame their patsy.
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Respectfully, this contribution lacks meaning. There is extremely little evidence that suspect Oswald was the one who shot at Ger. Walker, and this is simply part of the hokey "Official Narrative," meant to implicate Oswald and employ him as the designated patsy in the case.
Oh sure, other than Marina's testimony, the surveillance photos of the Walker residence, and the fact that the mutilated bullet recovered at the Walker house was of the same make and model as those that Oswald used to kill JFK with, there's extremely little evidence implicating Oswald. ::)
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Yes...thanks, Walt. And, please note the "circular reasoning" going on in this room (by people like Tim)....which, after more than fifty years...is terribly embarrassing. There is also "Straw Man" type reasoning. Some clown on this site asked "why Oswald chose the job in the TSBD to murder the President." This is the same junk method...a corrupt police investigator might subject the spouse of murder victim to when he yells, "Mrs. Johnson...what method did you use...exactly...to murder your husband?!!!" As it happens, I replied to the question...figuring the querent--SURELY--must be asking this ironically. No way he could be posing this question seriously.
NO ONE has ever "Made the Case" against Oswald. At MOST....there has never been any more than circumstantial evidence....and a MASSIVE cover-up.
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Yes...thanks, Walt. And, please note the "circular reasoning" going on in this room (by people like Tim)....which, after more than fifty years...is terribly embarrassing. There is also "Straw Man" type reasoning. Some clown on this site asked "why Oswald chose the job in the TSBD to murder the President." This is the same junk method...a corrupt police investigator might subject the spouse of murder victim to when he yells, "Mrs. Johnson...what method did you use...exactly...to murder your husband?!!!" As it happens, I replied to the question...figuring the querent--SURELY--must be asking this ironically. No way he could be posing this question seriously.
NO ONE has ever "Made the Case" against Oswald. At MOST....there has never been any more than circumstantial evidence....and a MASSIVE cover-up.
You and I are NOT in disagreement about Lee's involvement in the Walker Hoax.... I think you've said that Lee was not involved in the Walker mess.
I disagree.... I believe the evidence is overwhelming that Lee was the person who fired a bullet through Walker's window, but he had no intention of hitting Walker. ( I doubt that Walker was even in that room at the time the bullet crashed through the window. The whole affair was a charade designed to give Walker publicity in his quest to get JFK out of Office, and at the same time make it look like a self proclaimed communist had tried to kill him. ( Walker told reporters that night after the shooting that it was Kennedy's fault because he allowed these damned communists to roam free . ) The other edge of the sword was supposed to be beneficial to Lee Oswald in his quest to gain favor with Castro and be allowed asylum .in Cuba as a fugitive for attempted murder of one of Castro's most vocal foes, General Walker. Lee, who imagined himself to be Herb Philbrick, was trying desperately to gain access to Cuba where he hoped he might pick up useful information about the missiles that had nearly been fired at the US in November of 1962. Lee Oswald definitely was involved in the Walker HOAX.....as a agent of the US government.( or so he believed)
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Oh sure, other than Marina's testimony, the surveillance photos of the Walker residence, and the fact that the mutilated bullet recovered at the Walker house was of the same make and model as those that Oswald used to kill JFK with, there's extremely little evidence implicating Oswald. ::)
“Same make and model”. LOL.
“As those that Oswald used to kill JFK with”. LOL.
Stating conjectures as facts. LOL.
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You and I are in disagreement about Lee's involvement in the Walker Hoax.... I think you've said that Lee was not involved in the Walker mess.
I disagree.... I believe the evidence is overwhelming that Lee was the person who fired a bullet through Walker's window, but he had no intention of hitting Walker. ( I doubt that Walker was even in that room at the time the bullet crashed through the window. The whole affair was a charade designed to give Walker publicity in his quest to get JFK out of Office, and at the same time make it look like a self proclaimed communist had tried to kill him. ( Walker told reporters that night after the shooting that it was Kennedy's fault because he allowed these damned communists to roam free . ) The other edge of the sword was supposed to be beneficial to Lee Oswald in his quest to gain favor with Castro and be allowed asylum .in Cuba as a fugitive for attempted murder of one of Castro's most vocal foes, General Walker. Lee, who imagined himself to be Herb Philbrick, was trying desperately to gain access to Cuba where he hoped he might pick up useful information about the missiles that had nearly been fired at the US in November of 1962. Lee Oswald definitely was involved in the Walker HOAX.....as a agent of the US government.( or so he believed)
Walt, this research helps and hurts your argument. Either this book is poorly researched, poorly edited, both, or deliberate disinfo, is left to individual opinion.
I present it to make the point the bulk of the subject matter in the small sliver of Dr. Caufield's book I happen to be interested in, is easily proven to be BS.
(http://jfkforum.com/images/EdwinWalkerMartinCRP.jpg)
From Minnesota Minuteman Membership list. (I can confirm since last week's discovery, see cropped image above) John T. Martin was a high school senior displayed in a St. Paul , MN 1963 Yearbook.:
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=89629&relPageId=60&search=%221752_iglehart%22
(http://jfkforum.com/images/EdwinWalkerMartinWeathermanCRP.jpg)
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=60411&relPageId=104&search=iglehart
(http://jfkforum.com/images/OswaldJohnTmartin1752Iglehart012864.jpg)
General Walker and the Murder of President Kennedy: The Extensive New Evidence of a Radical-Right Conspiracy (https://books.google.com/books?id=M7JYCgAAQBAJ&pg=PA414&dq=By+Jeffrey+H.+Caufield,+M.D.+"john+l.+martin"&hl=en&ppis=_c&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjb2pq5nsbmAhUMU80KHbE5DY0Q6AEwAHoECAYQAg#v=onepage&q=By%20Jeffrey%20H.%20Caufield%2C%20M.D.%20"john%20l.%20martin"&f=false)
By Jeffrey H. Caufield, M.D.
(http://jfkforum.com/images/OswaldJohnTMartinCaufirldPg414.jpg)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/OswaldJohnTMartinCaufirldPg415.jpg)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/OswaldJohnTMartinCaufirldPg416.jpg)
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Walt, this research helps and hurts your argument. Either this book is poorly researched, poorly edited, both, or deliberate disinfo, is left to individual opinion.
I present it to make the point the bulk of the subject matter in the small sliver of Dr. Caufield's book I happen to be interested in, is easily proven to be BS.
(http://jfkforum.com/images/EdwinWalkerMartinCRP.jpg)
From Minnesota Minuteman Membership list. (I can confirm since last week's discovery, see cropped image above) John T. Martin was a high school senior displayed in a St. Paul , MN 1963 Yearbook.:
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=89629&relPageId=60&search=%221752_iglehart%22
(http://jfkforum.com/images/EdwinWalkerMartinWeathermanCRP.jpg)
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=60411&relPageId=104&search=iglehart
(http://jfkforum.com/images/OswaldJohnTmartin1752Iglehart012864.jpg)
General Walker and the Murder of President Kennedy: The Extensive New Evidence of a Radical-Right Conspiracy (https://books.google.com/books?id=M7JYCgAAQBAJ&pg=PA414&dq=By+Jeffrey+H.+Caufield,+M.D.+"john+l.+martin"&hl=en&ppis=_c&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjb2pq5nsbmAhUMU80KHbE5DY0Q6AEwAHoECAYQAg#v=onepage&q=By%20Jeffrey%20H.%20Caufield%2C%20M.D.%20"john%20l.%20martin"&f=false)
By Jeffrey H. Caufield, M.D.
(http://jfkforum.com/images/OswaldJohnTMartinCaufirldPg414.jpg)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/OswaldJohnTMartinCaufirldPg415.jpg)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/OswaldJohnTMartinCaufirldPg416.jpg)
I'm sorry Tom,.....I simply can't understand you.... Could you possibly simply post the part that is pertinent to the point?
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Yes...thanks, Walt. And, please note the "circular reasoning" going on in this room (by people like Tim)....which, after more than fifty years...is terribly embarrassing. There is also "Straw Man" type reasoning. Some clown on this site asked "why Oswald chose the job in the TSBD to murder the President." This is the same junk method...a corrupt police investigator might subject the spouse of murder victim to when he yells, "Mrs. Johnson...what method did you use...exactly...to murder your husband?!!!" As it happens, I replied to the question...figuring the querent--SURELY--must be asking this ironically. No way he could be posing this question seriously.
NO ONE has ever "Made the Case" against Oswald. At MOST....there has never been any more than circumstantial evidence....and a MASSIVE cover-up.
NO ONE has ever "Made the Case" against Oswald. At MOST....there has never been any more than circumstantial evidence....and a MASSIVE cover-up.
I totally agree..... The "case" against Lee Oswald is / was / always has been nonexistent. If there is any one piece of evidence that refutes the charges against Lee Oswald it is the Tom Dillard Photo. Dillard's photo clearly shows that there was NOBODY behind that sixth floor window at the time of the shooting.
The Hoover / LBJ cover up committee have duped the majority into believing that Dillard was such a slow witted dumbass that he didn't take the photo until thirty seconds after the shooting. Dillard took the photo DURING the shooting......
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Quote from: Thomas Halle on December 20, 2019, 06:03:18 PM
Respectfully, this contribution lacks meaning. There is extremely little evidence that suspect Oswald was the one who shot at Ger. Walker, and this is simply part of the hokey "Official Narrative," meant to implicate Oswald and employ him as the designated patsy in the case.
Then Nickerson comes along and recites the "Official Narrative"----
Oh sure, other than Marina's testimony, the surveillance photos of the Walker residence, and the fact that the mutilated bullet recovered at the Walker house was of the same make and model as those that Oswald used to kill JFK with, there's extremely little evidence implicating Oswald.
Marina's testimony ::)--- the surveillance photos--- Not proven who took them or why....the fact that the mutilated bullet recovered at the Walker house was of the same make and model ---Sez U
Here is the Walker thread done previously, redundantly, over and over again-------------------------
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,1189.msg27510.html#msg27510
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Regarding the Tom Scully link
General Walker and the Murder of President Kennedy: The Extensive New Evidence of a Radical-Right Conspiracy
By Jeffrey H. Caufield, M.D.
click the cover for the full preview----
https://books.google.com/books?id=M7JYCgAAQBAJ&pg
There is this guy on youtube who "shows" Walker in the bushes himself aiming a rifle while wearing his Stetson [no less] :-\
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Respectfully, this contribution lacks meaning. There is extremely little evidence that suspect Oswald was the one who shot at Ger. Walker, and this is simply part of the hokey "Official Narrative," meant to implicate Oswald and employ him as the designated patsy in the case.
So they did see him in the window?
Or you have photographic evidence showing an individual in that window?
Answer: No you don't.
Question: Why don't you?
Answer: Because it never happened
Too bad your bag of evidence does not support your conclusion. You are not the first sucker.
There is extremely little evidence that suspect Oswald was the one who shot at Ger. Walker,
Can you prove that ANYBODY actually shot AT AT Walker???
Walker is the sole person who could know the answer.... And Walker was a mental case, and a gigantic liar.....
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Can you prove that ANYBODY actually shot at Walker???
Walker is the sole person who could know the answer.... And Walker was a mental case, and a gigantic liar.....
There is only the police report cited in my link above----
(http://harveyandlee.net/Temp/Walker_Report.jpg)
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There is only the police report cited in my link above----
(http://harveyandlee.net/Temp/Walker_Report.jpg)
Bullet Recovered from General Edwin Walker's House Following the Attempt on His Life (https://catalog.archives.gov/id/305152)
(https://i.imgur.com/adnYQV7.png)
Mr. FRAZIER. I was unable to reach a conclusion as to whether or not it had been fired from this rifle. The conclusion went slightly further than that, in that we determined that the general rifling characteristics of the rifle 139 are of the same type as those found on the bullet, Exhibit 573, and, further, on this basis, that the bullet could have been fired from the rifle on the basis of its land and groove impressions. And, second, that all of the remaining physical characteristics of this bullet, 573, are the same as Western 6.5 mm. Mannlicher-Carcano bullets of the type normally loaded in ammunition made for this rifle, 139. However, the mutilation of the nose of the bullet has eliminated the length characteristics, and it cannot be definitely stated that Exhibit 573 is in fact a Western Cartridge Co. product, but all of the remaining characteristics of base shape, distance from the base to the cannelure, the width of the cannelure, and the overall appearance, coloration, and so forth, are similar to Western ammunition.
Mr. EISENBERG. Is this a jacketed bullet?
Mr. FRAZIER. Yes, it is a copper-alloy jacketed bullet having a lead core.
Mr. EISENBERG. Can you think of any reason why someone might have called this a steel-jacketed bullet?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir; except that some individuals commonly refer to rifle bullets as steel-jacketed bullets, when they actually in fact just have a copper-alloy jacket.
https://www.jfk-assassination.eu/warren/wch/vol3/page439.php
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What is the evidence that “some individuals commonly refer to rifle bullets as steel-jacketed bullets, when they actually in fact just have a copper-alloy jacket”?
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There is only the police report cited in my link above----
(http://harveyandlee.net/Temp/Walker_Report.jpg)
The police report is NOT verifiable solid evidence the the bullet that was fired through Walker's window was aimed AT Walker.....
As a matter of fact common sense dictates that the bullet was NOT aimed AT Walker....First off....Walker was ALLEGEDLY a stationary target sitting in a well lit room just a short distance from the rifle. ( about 20 yards?) IOW IF the shooter had intended to hit Walker he couldn't have missed ( Just as one of the investigating detectives told Walker) Second.... IF the rifle was in fact a Mannlicher Carcano The shooter merely had to load a second round and fire again in about 5 seconds...but that didn't happen. WHY? Because the shooter never intended to hit Walker.
The police report is based solely on Walker's tale......
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Regarding the Tom Scully link click the cover for the full preview----
https://books.google.com/books?id=M7JYCgAAQBAJ&pg
There is this guy on youtube who "shows" Walker in the bushes himself aiming a rifle while wearing his Stetson [no less] :-\
LOL!.... But not as preposterous as it sounds..... There is a photo that was taken inside Walker's house on the night of the shooting, that shows what appears to be a Mannlicher Carcano standing in a corner of Walkers house.
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Regarding the Tom Scully link click the cover for the full preview----
https://books.google.com/books?id=M7JYCgAAQBAJ&pg
There is this guy on youtube who "shows" Walker in the bushes himself aiming a rifle while wearing his Stetson [no less] :-\
Thanks to Tom Scully...I saved $45.00 , ...because I didn't buy the book. I was temped because I thought it sounded like an interesting book....but after reading the excerpt that Mr Scully posted ....I changed my mind. Although I agree with the author, that the Walker incident was a hoax I don't believe the author lays out his case for believing the shot through the window was a publicity stunt. IMO the shot though Walker's window was far more that a mere "publicity stunt". I believe that the bullet through the window was the first step in an intelligence operation that was designed to make it appear the Lee Oswald had tried to kill one of Castro's most vocal foes but missed, and had fled the country to avoid arrest on an attempted murder charge. The plotters thought that Lee would be welcome in Cuba, because he had tried to kill Walker.