JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Colin Crow on September 23, 2019, 02:57:23 AM
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Consider the following scenario.
The rifle is never found in the TSBD.
Oswald leaves the TSBD prior to the roll call and is killed shortly after by hit and run driver in a Nash Rambler on Elm (detail just for fun).
Dillard has no film in his camera.
Who is the prime suspect?
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Consider the following scenario.
The rifle is never found in the TSBD.
Oswald leaves the TSBD prior to the roll call and is killed shortly after by hit and run driver in a Nash Rambler on Elm (detail just for fun).
Dillard has no film in his camera.
Who is the prime suspect?
Gilberto Policarpo Lopez and/or Miguel Casas Saez.
-- MWT ;)
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There was no roll call.
Updated for you.
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Consider the following scenario.
The rifle is never found in the TSBD.
Oswald leaves the TSBD prior to the roll call and is killed shortly after by hit and run driver in a Nash Rambler on Elm (detail just for fun).
Dillard has no film in his camera.
Who is the prime suspect?
Colin,
You seem to be suggesting the rifle was planted.
Under your hypothetical, were any rifles found in the TSBD?
-- MWT ;)
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Colin,
You seem to be suggesting the rifle was planted.
Under your hypothetical, were any rifles found in the TSBD?
-- MWT ;)
No Tommy,
I am proposing a hypothetical where Oswald did the deed but those events occurred. The rifle was not found because maybe he found a better way of concealing it.
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Consider the following scenario.
The rifle is never found in the TSBD.
Oswald leaves the TSBD prior to the roll call and is killed shortly after by hit and run driver in a Nash Rambler on Elm (detail just for fun).
Dillard has no film in his camera.
Who is the prime suspect?
There are witnesses that confirm they saw a person with a rifle in the TSBD. Oswald has no alibi for the moment of the assassination. He is person known to the FBI even prior to the assassination. At a minimum, he becomes a person of interest from the moment the DPD finds out his wacky background, that he worked in the building, and that he left in the immediate aftermath. The investigation would then confirm from his wife and the BY photos that he owned a rifle and that it could not be accounted for. in the place where he kept it. If he somehow smuggles it out of the TSBD in a bag, it is soon found. Same result. Oswald is the prime suspect (i.e. guilty).
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Consider the following scenario.
The rifle is never found in the TSBD.
Oswald leaves the TSBD prior to the roll call and is killed shortly after by hit and run driver in a Nash Rambler on Elm (detail just for fun).
Dillard has no film in his camera.
Who is the prime suspect?
Isn't there enough information (evidence) to examine?..... Why do we need to debate such nonsense?
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There are witnesses that confirm they saw a person with a rifle in the TSBD. Oswald has no alibi for the moment of the assassination. He is person known to the FBI even prior to the assassination. At a minimum, he becomes a person of interest from the moment the DPD finds out his wacky background, that he worked in the building, and that he left in the immediate aftermath. The investigation would then confirm from his wife and the BY photos that he owned a rifle and that it could not be accounted for. in the place where he kept it. If he somehow smuggles it out of the TSBD in a bag, it is soon found. Same result. Oswald is the prime suspect (i.e. guilty).
His “wacky background” had nothing to do with killing anyone. Also you have a weird notion of what it means to “confirm” something.
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No Tommy,
I am proposing a hypothetical where Oswald did the deed but those events occurred. The rifle was not found because maybe he found a better way of concealing it.
Colin,
Which raises the question: Instead of leaving the rifle in the Sniper's Nest or hiding it nearby, why did Killer Oswald carry the rifle all the way over to that area near the stairwell to hide it?
Is it plausible that he had he not planned out what he was going to do?
Was he carrying it just that far as a defensive weapon?
By the same token, if the rifle was "planted," why there instead of in the "Sniper's Nest"?
-- MWT ;)
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No Tommy,
I am proposing a hypothetical where Oswald did the deed but those events occurred. The rifle was not found because maybe he found a better way of concealing it.
By lowering it on a rope to Gilberto Policarpo Lopez or Miguel Casas Lopez, outside?
-- MWT ;)
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His “wacky background” had nothing to do with killing anyone.
Iacoletti,
Shouldn't you have said, "His wacky background doesn't necessarily mean he killed JFK or Tippit"?
Why are you always so over-the-top and categorical in your denials?
It makes you look desperate, you know.
-- MWT
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Shouldn't you have said, "His wacky background doesn't necessarily mean he killed JFK or Tippit"?
No, I meant what I said. There is nothing in his "wacky background" that would suggest that he would kill anybody.
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Hypothetically, o'course!.....(Just talking "out of school")
I have always thought. "Follow the Money" was basic, obvious. Oliver Stone spent $43 million, Harold Weissberg authored
book after book. Then came Davy, Mellen, DiEugenio, and Morley. Which of them, if any, delved into the money behind both INCA
and the Garrison investigation and prosecution of Clay Shaw?
"Looking for Love in all the Wrong Places..." lyrics by Alan Ford:
.....
Now! Let these facts sink in. Once they have, you will finally understand why so many of us consider that Depository front entranceway, and the visual record of that entranceway, to be of potentially tremendous importance to this case.
Maybe we're wrong. Maybe we should be focusing on more material matters such as the fact that Person A once went fishing with Person B whose third cousin was a grade below Person D in high school.
Or maybe we're right!
Thumb1:
https://www.leagle.com/decision/19494978dmtcm4891381
8 T.C.M. 489 (1949) Jack Churchward v. Commissioner.
United States Tax Court. Entered May 17, 1949.
....
On his wife's gift tax return, the following appears:
Interest in Churchward & Co. and Churchward Welding Company transferred to Jack Churchward, 37 Water St., West Haven, Connecticut in consideration of his transfer to me of his interest in Churchward Engineering Co. The tangible values exchanged appear to be approximately equal or the differential is not in excess of $4,000, but the excess of my transfer, if any, is a gift to Jack Churchward.
(http://jfkforum.com/images/WillardChurchwardPresidentSteelcraft.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-GQ-l3RvP2D4/V6A4EEG5dLI/AAAAAAAAFFQ/DpEY9VR6Ed09uZz6rS3UE5WT74cSqoR8gCCo/s512/Willard1948supt37WaterSt.jpg)
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/219917526/
Willard E. Robertson SHREVEPORT Private Kimilv services (or Willord E. Robertson, a recent resident o Shreveport, were held at 11 a m, on Mondav October 31, at the tomilv home Grevstone on Beaver Lake near Rogers, Ark. Mr Robertson died at Ochsner Foundation Hosoitol in New Orleans ot 10 a m on Saturday, October 29. 1983, (oliowingashort Illness Interment will be in the family mausoleum. Mr. Robertson, born on May 16, 1908 in Conwov, NH, was a well-known business and civic leader in Shreveport as well as in Rogers, Ark. and New Orleans, La. He was educated in Exeter, N.H. and Northeast University of Low in Boston, Mass. Mr. Robertson wos assistant to the president ot Church, Ward & Co. in New Haven, Conn. In 1948.
(http://jfkforum.com/images/WillardChurchwardDulles.jpg)
he went to New Orleans with Church, Ward & Co., as marine engineer. In 1949, he entered the automobile business in New Orleans and for 22 vear s was a Volkswogen distributor, covering the states of Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama and Tennessee, with 68 dealers. For 4 years he was the Porsche and Audi distributor for the some territory, with 14 dealers. In addition to business affiliations, he was involved in public and civic organizations, to list a few:....
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/WstVfejxK3_n0powB-Qy4GV-UN36pFMuSPIePZZp5eXJlpKPJ8myfVJaLeW0cLV6087AoWvt8sdrghncuwugiPajVZ2gmtQA_s4QEibw9SO0V1df6uMvfT_ghWEKdzUPPKhcU2aLIaOff--sHdT7KPmEfmfgAT0Zge1NuAsNkJu1ZJdYx1hCbEY8DzrZ64-cNTJbc8GAnJw81IognynguHXKkrN1nE8SfSxre4bGRX5g2G_a2eq7pJKn-_hT2FYOLtcoMcBET1eGxf4H65noxye4r_OYSDgXqwB94rdkx5vWnNYlxV_epidr-Vohuch7NuADkcCZLBC4FyDGNzjrsseGXiNWs1ij8F_hdIiFENqJT1lTincqgyji7lK2-jPut3ilyL4xj447hcl90DsFEcECGpHAu6fjUHLWxVJRp0Jc0qESs7F9_4eK8xdM2batjd5syvj5KgmulBc5DSH0KeqVsMIqhQfypeuS8fhEzxoiGDy1VBJDvdFYU7kv0p_N2iXMjiAJsHrABqK7WFe8YY-HzXnZc_thBjBYXRHLTJ9KmjnB-07Kmqe6FG8PzonboXKxNL2UzO7wjlecdLtDdKxrxwTC0n4=w993-h720-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ytsbNw72T64/V6ApxUxW-WI/AAAAAAAAFEM/pS8kC34bvLIxFAbf91X6_AdSKJou6BRDACCo/s512/WillardNovelElectronic2of2.jpg)
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Colin,
Which raises the question: Instead of leaving the rifle in the Sniper's Nest or hiding it nearby, why did Killer Oswald carry the rifle all the way over to that area near the stairwell to hide it?
Is it plausible that he had he not planned out what he was going to do?
Was he carrying it just that far as a defensive weapon?
By the same token, if the rifle was "planted," why there instead of in the "Sniper's Nest"?
-- MWT ;)
I think Oswald scouted out a shooting location and place to hide the rifle beforehand. He decided on the 6th floor. He likely takes the rifle there that morning when he arrives and hides it. He carries his clipboard around while lingering on the 6h floor at lunch time to give the appearance of doing work if anyone sees him. The last thing he does before retrieving the rifle is to lay down his clipboard. So the location of the clipboard provides an indication of the area where the rifle was hidden before the assassination. And that is near where he leaves the rifle after the assassination. He likely carries it for defensive purposes until he is near the stairs to exit the floor. Then he is just another employee in the building. Like John Wilkes Booth was just another actor in Ford's Theater.
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Consider the following scenario.
The rifle is never found in the TSBD.
Oswald leaves the TSBD prior to the roll call and is killed shortly after by hit and run driver in a Nash Rambler on Elm (detail just for fun).
Dillard has no film in his camera.
Who is the prime suspect?
Yo Colin, can your Nash Rambler's horn go 'beep-beep'?
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Yes, good boy, you know when to say when when I have my spiked heel across your throat. Smart move, very smart.
Bring it on, hon.
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Mr Graves,
It is much more fun to pick you to pieces daily as well as demoralize you. Besides, these are pretty sharp spiked heels and your throat would end up looking like JFK's throat wound. No fun.
Betina(?),
Oh, you mean that exit wound?
-- MWT ;)
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No, I meant what I said. There is nothing in his "wacky background" that would suggest that he would kill anybody.
John,
Yeah, you're probably right, despite the mysterious Private Schrand incident at Cubi Point, or wherever.
-- MWT ;)
PS One theory is that Schrand was forcing Ozzie Rabbit to give him a .... well, never mind.
Two more are mentioned in the following article.
https://tosee....wrworld.wordpress.com/2014/11/03/private-schrand/
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My question, is why didn't he place the rifle back in the bag, even if it only partially hid the rifle it may have caused delayed its discovery for several hours.
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My question, is why didn't he place the rifle back in the bag, even if it only partially hid the rifle it may have caused delayed its discovery for several hours.
Anthony,
Maybe his fingers were too greasy from the fried chicken.
-- MWT ;)
PS What would it have mattered? The police would have figured out pretty quickly (as they did) that he had gotten out of Dodge, and with the statements of that mystery witness to officer Sawyer, and Brennan to whomever, they would have been looking for Robert E. Webster pretty doggone soon.
(Oops. I just regressed back into my "the evil, evil, evil CIA killed JFK" mode. That high heel-wearin' Bart Kamp I mean Bettina(?) brings that out of me ...)
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I think Oswald scouted out a shooting location and place to hide the rifle beforehand. He decided on the 6th floor. He likely takes the rifle there that morning when he arrives and hides it. He carries his clipboard around while lingering on the 6h floor at lunch time to give the appearance of doing work if anyone sees him. The last thing he does before retrieving the rifle is to lay down his clipboard. So the location of the clipboard provides an indication of the area where the rifle was hidden before the assassination. And that is near where he leaves the rifle after the assassination. He likely carries it for defensive purposes until he is near the stairs to exit the floor. Then he is just another employee in the building. Like John Wilkes Booth was just another actor in Ford's Theater.
Cool story, bro. Too bad there’s no evidence that any of it actually happened.
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Yeah, you're probably right, despite the mysterious Private Schrand incident at Cubi Point, or wherever.
Are you accusing Oswald of killing Schrand?
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Cool story, bro. Too bad there’s no evidence that any of it actually happened.
John,
You require notarized statements (in triplicate), certified DNA tests, films and photos from fifteen different angles, and a minimum of four eyewitnesses, correct?
-- MWT ;)
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Anthony,
Maybe his fingers were too greasy from the fried chicken.
-- MWT ;)
PS What would it have mattered? The police would have figured out pretty quickly (as they did) that he had gotten out of Dodge, and with the statements of that mystery witness to officer Sawyer, and Brennan to whomever, they would have been looking for Robert E. Webster pretty doggone soon.
(Oops. I just regressed back into my "the evil, evil, evil CIA killed JFK" mode. That high heel-wearin' Bart Kamp I mean Bettina(?) brings that out of me ...)
Do you ever get tired of diverting every conversation with your stupid, sarcastic BS?
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You require notarized statements (in triplicate), certified DNA tests, films and photos from fifteen different angles, and a minimum of four eyewitnesses, correct?
How about any evidence beyond an overactive imagination?
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Are you accusing Oswald of killing Schrand?
John,
Are you saying that he couldn't have, because he had no history of being a violent person?
-- MWT ;)
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Are you saying that he couldn't have, because he had no history of being a violent person?
Do you always answer questions with other questions?
A simple yes or no would suffice.
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Do you always answer questions with other questions?
A simple yes or no would suffice.
John,
I'm throwing the Private Schrand Incident "out there" for guests and members who may not have heard of it to ponder.
Is that okay with you, or shall I delete the post out of deference to Oswald's pure-as-the-driven-snow pre-assassination reputation regarding any propensity to commit violent acts he may (or may not have) had?
-- MWT ;)
PS Uh oh, it looks as though your buddy Tom Scully is in the process of "enlightening" us with another really, really long one ...
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I'm throwing the Private Schrand Incident "out there" for guests and members who may not have heard of it to ponder.
But are you accusing Oswald of killing Schrand?
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"In the event of war, I would kill any American who put a uniform on in defense of the American government--any American."
- Lee Harvey Oswald, letter to his brother
"Lee was sick...he didn't know who he was."
- Marina Oswald
Imagine looking out your window and seeing your next door neighbor doing this? Having his pregnant wife photograph him? This is an unstable person. Who does he think he is?
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/10/27/00/45AB083000000578-5022503-image-a-64_1509062389318.jpg)
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"In the event of war, I would kill any American who put a uniform on in defense of the American government--any American."
- Lee Harvey Oswald, letter to his brother
Yes, and?
Are you suggesting that a military combatant who defends his country in the event of war is unstable?
Imagine looking out your window and seeing your next door neighbor doing this? Having his pregnant wife photograph him? This is an unstable person. Who does he think he is?
You haven’t spent much time in Texas, have you?
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Yes, I'm sure no one would be interested in the fact that a person known to the FBI who had defected to the USSR as a self-avowed Marxist worked in the building from which shots were fired at the President! Nothing to see there. LOL. Even Oswald himself claimed he was a suspect because he had lived in the Soviet Union! But along comes the contrarian who claims there is nothing in Oswald's wacky background that lends itself to suspicion of him as the assassin. Whew. Oswald becomes an obvious suspect once the authorities become aware of his wacky political background and that he worked in the building from which the shots were fired. Ironically, that very concept drives many CTer fantasy narratives. That Oswald was set up to look like a political nut who might commit such a crime. So it's all the more humorous that one such CTer is now arguing the exact opposite that his background is not indicative of his being the assassin. But consistency was never a strong point for dishonest contrarians.
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Yes, I'm sure no one would be interested in the fact that a person known to the FBI who had defected to the USSR as a self-avowed Marxist worked in the building from which shots were fired at the President! Nothing to see there. LOL.
LOL indeed. “Marxist” means “murderer” to you. “Wacky political background” (whatever the hell that means) means “murderer” to you. Logic was never your strong suit.
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"In the event of war, I would kill any American who put a uniform on in defense of the American government--any American."
- Lee Harvey Oswald, letter to his brother
"Lee was sick...he didn't know who he was."
- Marina Oswald
Imagine looking out your window and seeing your next door neighbor doing this? Having his pregnant wife photograph him? This is an unstable person. Who does he think he is?
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/10/27/00/45AB083000000578-5022503-image-a-64_1509062389318.jpg)
"In the event of war, I would kill any American who put a uniform on in defense of the American government--any American." - Lee Harvey Oswald, letter to his brother
Lee wrote this at a time when he was desperately trying to get the approval of the Russians. He knew that the Russians were reading his mail ....so that sentence was for their eyes. And the Backyard photo was untended for the eyes of Casto's agents..... Lee was portraying himself as a "armed and ready" communist revolutionary who was ready to fight in Castro's revolution. In reality he was a US agent trying to gain entrance to Cuba .
Anybody who can't see through the smoke ....should stop smoking that stuff and clear your head....
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Makes perfect sense to suspect a stinkin' commie rat except Roy S. Truly didn't know he was a stinkin' commie rat...
Not sure what that means. The hypothetical posed involved who would be the suspect if Oswald's rifle was not found in the TSBD. And the answer has nothing to do with Truly since he was not a law enforcement agent conducting the investigation. The FBI would have quickly identified Oswald as a person of interest once they learned he worked in the building from which the shots were fired given his nutty background. The fact that he fled the building and had no alibi for the moment of assassination would have been discovered in the investigation making him a suspect. They would then have checked for his rifle and - gasp - found it missing from Paine's garage. If Oswald had ditched it somewhere during his escape, it is likely found. Same result. Oswald = guilty.
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Again, it is laughable that anyone would take issue with the notion that Oswald's nutty background (known to the FBI) would have made him a suspect. Oswald himself made that claim. Many CTer theories are premised on his being set up to look like a political nut who might be an assassin. That alone doesn't mean he was the assassin. Only that he would have been quickly identified as a suspect on that basis subject to further investigation that would have uncovered evidence of his guilt. If a plane mysteriously crashes, for example, and the FBI discover the pilot had connections to a suspect political group like ISIS, then he becomes a suspect. The investigation would not stop there but continue to find other potential evidence.
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Peinfully ignorant. Proposed scenario does not undo Roy S. Truly tipping off Fritz.
You aren't following along. Of course it does not "undo" Truly noting that Oswald was missing. That is another - separate element from his political background - that would made Oswald a potential suspect. The fact that Truly didn't know Oswald's wacky political background is not, however, relevant to the FBI who would have eventually have made all the connections. They would have connected the dots. Shots were fired from the TSBD, Oswald worked in that building, Oswald was a known political nut with a history of suspect behavior, Oswald had no credible alibi for the moment of the assassination, Oswald fled the building in the immediate aftermath. All of that might not be conclusive of his guilt but he would have been identified as a potential suspect leading to further investigation. And that investigation would have uncovered evidence linking him to the crime. Finding Oswald's rifle at the crime scene is the most important piece of evidence that links him to the crime. But even in the absence of the rifle, his conduct and background would eventually make him an obvious person of interest to the police.
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His “wacky background” had nothing to do with killing anyone. Also you have a weird notion of what it means to “confirm” something.
You are wasting your keystrokes......(http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/Smileys/default2/deadhorsebeat_2.gif)
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Again, it is laughable that anyone would take issue with the notion that Oswald's nutty background (known to the FBI) would have made him a suspect.
What's laughable is that you keep claiming that there's something in his background that would have made him a murder suspect. Being a Marxist or a defector (false or otherwise) doesn't make one a murderer. You need more than that to consider somebody a "suspect".
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What's laughable is that you keep claiming that there's something in his background that would have made him a murder suspect. Being a Marxist or a defector (false or otherwise) doesn't make one a murderer. You need more than that to consider somebody a "suspect".
John,
Forget the alleged wife-beating and shooting at General Walker, etc, what it boils down to whether or not the FBI and Secret Service knew before 11/22/63 that self-avowed Marxist and re-defector Oswald had (supposedly) been in contact in Mexico City with KGB officer Valiery Kostikov, believed at the time (probably mistakenly) to have been the head of KGB sabotage and assassination efforts in the Western Hemisphere.
If they weren't apprised of this by the CIA, then we must ask why not.
And if FBI was notified but dropped the ball, then shouldn't we blame Hoover and/or Hosty for the assassination?
-- MWT ;)
PS Or would you prefer to blame the evil, evil, evil Military Industrial Intelligence Community Complex?
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Forget the alleged wife-beating and shooting at General Walker, etc,
But these were alleged after the assassination. "Richard" was trying to make the argument that Oswald should have been considered a murder suspect merely because of his politics.
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You are wasting your keystrokes......(http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/Smileys/default2/deadhorsebeat_2.gif)
This is pretty simple. Even for you. Oswald was a known political kook prior to the assassination. A person the FBI was keeping tabs on for years. Once it became known to the authorities that he worked in the building from which the shots were fired, he would become an obvious person of interest. Oswald himself said that for f's sake! He said that he had been arrested because he once lived in the Soviet Union. That wouldn't be the end of the investigation or demonstrate alone that he was guilty. It would simply mean there was cause to believe Oswald was the kind of nut who might do this and look at him as a potential suspect. If he had an iron clad alibi, then he walks. But he didn't. He was fleeing for his life because he was stone cold guilty.
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How does being a “political kook” make you a person of interest in a murder investigation?
I guess we better haul in every Trump supporter for questioning.
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How does being a “political kook” make you a person of interest in a murder investigation?
I guess we better haul in every Trump supporter for questioning.
John,
Not every political kook is a Marine Corps Reservist (can you say "good shot"?) radar operator who attempts to renounce his or her American citizenship, become a Russian (Soviet) citizen, and threatens to tell Russian (Soviet) intelligence everything he or she has learned in connection with that Marine Corps M.O.S.
-- MWT ;)
PS I hope Edward Snowden isn't one of your personal heroes.
PPS At least we agree on one thing -- Trump supporters are kooks.
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John,
Not every political kook is a Marine Corps Reservist (can you say "good shot"?) radar operator who attempts to renounce his or her American citizenship, become a Russian (Soviet) citizen, and threatens to tell Russian (Soviet) intelligence everything he or she has learned in connection with that Marine Corps M.O.S.
-- MWT ;)
PS I hope Edward Snowden isn't one of your personal heroes.
PPS At least we agree on one thing -- Trump supporters are kooks.
Not every political kook is a Marine Corps Reservist (can you say "good shot"?) radar operator who attempts to renounce his or her American citizenship, become a Russian (Soviet) citizen, and threatens to tell Russian (Soviet) intelligence everything he or she has learned in connection with that Marine Corps M.O.S.
How many Marine turncoat traitors would receive a draft card that gave them a IV A ( four A ) classification??
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Not every political kook is a Marine Corps Reservist (can you say "good shot"?) radar operator who attempts to renounce his or her American citizenship, become a Russian (Soviet) citizen, and threatens to tell Russian (Soviet) intelligence everything he or she has learned in connection with that Marine Corps M.O.S.
How many Marine turncoat traitors would receive a draft card that gave them a IV A ( four A ) classification??
Draft card?
I thought he enlisted?
Are you sure you aren't confusing him with Harvey or Henry?
-- MWT ;)
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Draft card?
I thought he enlisted?
Are you sure you aren't confusing him with Harvey or Henry?
-- MWT ;)
His Selective Service Card, Knucklehead.
(https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/a95b5aff-c8a2-48ae-8436-008ec880290f/downloads/CDF9D4A7-FB2A-45EF-9606-B3CFC37238EC.jpeg?ver=1569381288783)
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"In the event of war, I would kill any American who put a uniform on in defense of the American government--any American."
- Lee Harvey Oswald, letter to his brother
"Lee was sick...he didn't know who he was."
- Marina Oswald
Imagine looking out your window and seeing your next door neighbor doing this? Having his pregnant wife photograph him? This is an unstable person. Who does he think he is?
Maybe the hunter of fascists thought he might get Marina excited...
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This is pretty simple. Even for you. Oswald was a known political kook prior to the assassination. A person the FBI was keeping tabs on for years. Once it became known to the authorities that he worked in the building from which the shots were fired, he would become an obvious person of interest. Oswald himself said that for f's sake! He said that he had been arrested because he once lived in the Soviet Union. That wouldn't be the end of the investigation or demonstrate alone that he was guilty. It would simply mean there was cause to believe Oswald was the kind of nut who might do this and look at him as a potential suspect. If he had an iron clad alibi, then he walks. But he didn't. He was fleeing for his life because he was stone cold guilty.
Does the brainwashing solvent occasionally run out your ears and stain the shoulders of your clothing? The only thing your posts have settled is they got their
money's worth as a result of in "investing" in you to avoid being criticized by you, and Oswald was politically sophisticated and you are not! It is embarrassing to read your regurgitations of what volk like the Koch bros. and Scaifes invested to turn out millions so similar to you who firmly believe they "know what they know" because it seems obvious to them. Turning the wheel seems an obvious purpose to a caged hamster!
In Ohio, this brutal fascist is so beloved he was re-elected and they've named venues to "honor" him!:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Rhodes
…As governor in 1970, Rhodes sent National Guard troops onto the Kent State University campus at the request of Kent, Ohio's mayor, after the ROTC building was burned down by unknown arsonists on May 2. On May 4, four students were killed and nine others were wounded by the Guard. One victim, Dean Kahler, suffered permanent paralysis.[2]….
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_A._Rhodes_Arena
James A. Rhodes Arena, nicknamed "The JAR," is an arena in Akron, Ohio, United States on the campus of the University of Akron. It was built next to and replaced the University's 3,000-seat Memorial Hall gymnasium. Named for former Ohio governor Jim Rhodes, the arena opened in 1983
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_A._Rhodes_State_College
In 2002, Lima Technical College changed its name to James A. Rhodes State College in order to honor the former governor. Rhodes played a major role in developing Ohio's two-year colleges. It is now referred to as Rhodes State College.
This column's author was son of the first director of DIA, Hoover's former admin. aide, Gen. Joseph Carroll:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Carroll_(DIA)
https://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/30/opinion/30iht-edcarroll.4.6900205.html
The peril of valuing celebrity over history
By JAMES CARROLLJULY 30, 2007
…..
Yet, speaking of history, this conjuring of the appearance of opposition where none actually exists has been mandated by the American political system since the onset of the Cold War. The quadrennial political puppet show, highlighting not opposition but its appearance, is essential to keeping the captive-taking war machine running and to inoculating the American people from the viral knowledge that they themselves were first to be captured.
A minimal acquaintance with history, including dissections of American culture already performed by both Sinclairs, would undermine our national complacency. Upton Sinclair, for example, showed the rapaciousness of capitalism, the vampire-like appetite with which it feeds on the blood of human beings. Even with "reforms" ("The Jungle" led to the establishment of the Food and Drug Administration), the profit-worshipping economy to this day eludes controls that would protect majorities of citizens in this country and across the world. Sinclair Lewis, for his part, showed how the simultaneously banalizing methods of capitalist enterprise (false advertising, consumerism, pieties of affluence, amoral bureaucracy) are exactly what that enterprise created to keep from being criticized.
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Accuracy In Media (AIM) is an American non-profit conservative news media watchdog founded in 1969 by economist Reed Irvine. AIM supported the Vietnam War and blamed media bias for U.S. loss in the war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accuracy_in_Media
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Accuracy_in_Media
Study Reed Irvine and Buckley brother-in-law Bozell and Bozell's son and assure me their crony, syndicated winger columnist John Chamberlain, the biographer of Gen. Charles Willoughby, gushing approvingly of the aerial bombers of Cuba, Sullivan and Rorke were squared away, as you are confident you are, but it was Oswald who was "a kook"!:
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/4127251/geoff_sullivan/
Christopher Ruddy - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Ruddy
Christopher Ruddy (born January 28, 1965) is the CEO of Newsmax Media, which publishes ..... L. Brent Bozell III (1997-10-02). "Ruddy Blackout Shows a Book ...
Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) | The Martin Luther King ...
https://kinginstitute.stanford.edu › encyclopedia › federal-bureau-investiga...
FBI director J. Edgar Hoover was personally hostile toward King, believing that ... (FBI) began monitoring Martin Luther King, Jr., in December 1955, during his ...
Here's What The FBI Had On Martin Luther King Jr. - Newsweek
https://www.newsweek.com › ... › Communism › Kennedy
Jan 15, 2018 - The FBI was obsessed with Martin Luther King Jr. from the mid-1950s until his ... In all that time, the bureau—and Director J. Edgar Hoover ...
FBI–King suicide letter - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki
A nearly unredacted copy of the "suicide letter" sent to Martin Luther King Jr. The FBI–King suicide letter or blackmail package was an anonymous 1964 letter and package ... Georgia in 2010, but never passed by Congress. A copy of the letter is known to exist in J. Edgar Hoover's confidential files at the National Archives.
https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/criminal/legacy/2011/03/14/12-2008osu-accountability.pdf
......
............25. Others were investigated but not prosecuted, either because the government lacked sufficient evidence, the men were too ill, or they died before OS1' s investigation was complete. After the Rudolph case, and likely as a consequence of it, none of the rocket scientists would submit to an interview with OS1. In 1993, the WJC brought public pressure to bear on Ohio State University and Brooks Air Force Base in San Antonio, each of which had honored Hubertus Strughold, a Paperclip scientist who had been a leader in the field of aerospace medicine. (Strughold died in 1987.) As a resultpf"the WJC pr~~~lJJer.()hiQ State remoyeg referenceJo.~Strug~01dJr9111 .• 'l:st~edgl~ss mvr~l COrrirn~rnoratingleader~ in~~. history Q{m~dicine.
1962:
(https://vincepalamara.files.wordpress.com/2018/07/923446_10202583319319726_1429946522_n.jpg?w=300)
(https://vincepalamara.files.wordpress.com/2018/07/1004955_10202583321279775_2014434154_n.jpg)
As long as you're comparing an individual your fascist biases filter prejudicially, that individual is dismissed as a "kook" but certainly you and establishment figures
of 1963 certainly are not. Here are present day results of what you perceive as politically "A-Okay"?:
If you want to be taken seriously stop being completely receptive to the best political propaganda money can buy. Have you ever even given a thought to who
invested in the outcome that is your POV?
(http://jfkforum.com/images/FederalReserve2016SCFWealthDecileChart.jpg)
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His Selective Service Card, Knucklehead.
(https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/a95b5aff-c8a2-48ae-8436-008ec880290f/downloads/CDF9D4A7-FB2A-45EF-9606-B3CFC37238EC.jpeg?ver=1569381288783)
Mike,
Did he receive that "draft card," or did he fabricate it at Jaggers-Chiles-Stovall?
-- MWT ;)
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His Selective Service Card, Knucklehead.
(https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/a95b5aff-c8a2-48ae-8436-008ec880290f/downloads/CDF9D4A7-FB2A-45EF-9606-B3CFC37238EC.jpeg?ver=1569381288783)
Not being familiar with SS cards, are photos normally included? Ones I can find from that era don’t seem to include them. I assume there was a standard format that might have changed somewhat over the years. What does the Class IV mean? Why would someone forge a card including a photo if it was so obviously phony?
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Not being familiar with SS cards, are photos normally included? Ones I can find from that era don’t seem to include them. I assume there was a standard format that might have changed somewhat over the years. What does the Class IV mean? Why would someone forge a card including a photo if it was so obviously phony?
Colin,
There was a whole thread kinda on this topic at the EF a couple of years ago.
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/24175-the-stamp-on-the-military-id-card/
-- MWT ;)
Edit #1: The general consensus on that 24-page EF thread is that, by extrapolation, the photo on Hidell's "classification" card, above, was taken (or created?) in Minsk.
Edit #2: It get's really interesting on page 20, a little more than halfway down, on Chris Newton's September 14 post where he notices the black spot on that guy's neck, and the fact that the same-but-unused photo was found in Oswald's "scrapbook" or "photo book".
You might want to check it out ...
Edit #3: Interestingly, that photo is featured in the Wikipedia article on Oswald, and when one looks at it and notices another spot on the general image, one wonders if the black spot on the neck is a biological feature of the dude (or a compilation of two dudes?), or if it was just a byproduct of a rather sloppy photographic process, be it of a normal photographic situation (of Oswald, or someone in Minsk who resembled him), or of a more exotic, "fake photo"/compilation nature.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Harvey_Oswald
PS Am I "virtuous," yet?
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Colin,
There was a whole thread kinda on this topic at the EF a couple of years ago.
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/24175-the-stamp-on-the-military-id-card/
-- MWT ;)
Edit #1: The general consensus on that 24-page EF thread is that, by extrapolation, the photo on Hidell's "classification" card, above, was taken (or created?) in Minsk.
Edit #2: It get's really interesting on page 20, a little more than halfway down, on Chris Newton's September 14 post where he notices the black spot on that guy's neck, and the fact that the same-but-unused photo was found in Oswald's "scrapbook" or "photo book".
You might want to check it out ...
Edit #3: Interestingly, that photo is featured in the Wikipedia article on Oswald, and when one looks at it and notices another spot on the general image, one wonders if the black spot on the neck is a biological feature of the dude (or a compilation of two dudes?), or if it was just a byproduct of a rather sloppy photographic process, be it of a normal photographic situation (of Oswald, or someone in Minsk who resembled him), or of a more exotic, "fake photo"/compilation nature.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Harvey_Oswald
PS Am I "virtuous," yet?
Thank you Tommy. Appreciated.
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Thank you Tommy. Appreciated.
Colin,
You're welcome!
Question: Is that Oswald (before, or after "programming" by the humanitarian organization known as the KGB), someone else, or a compilation?
(IDK)
-- MWT ;)
PS If the KGB had anything to do with the making of these different "Hidell" same spot-on-neck military IDs, and if the photo is of someone else who had a mark like that on his neck, then imho the fact that they didn't photographically remove the spot can mean two different things:
1) the spot isn't a biological thing, after all, but a mistake in the photographic process which the KGB assumed would be recognized by others for what it was, or
2) that it is a biological mark on an Oswald impersonator, and the reason they didn't airbrush it out was because it was supposed to signify something to someone Oswald would be showing that ID to.
Implicit in #2, above, is that I can't imagine the KGB's not noticing that Oswald didn't have a mark like that on his neck.
-- MWT ;)
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Not being familiar with SS cards, are photos normally included? Ones I can find from that era don’t seem to include them. I assume there was a standard format that might have changed somewhat over the years. What does the Class IV mean? Why would someone forge a card including a photo if it was so obviously phony?
Photos were NOT on SS cards.....Classification IV A was the classification for a highly desirable draftee....When an 18 year old male registered with Selective Service he would be examined and classified according to his physical and mental condition.... Classification IV A was the highest classification, and a young man that received that classification could expect to find himself in a basic training camp shortly after he was classified.
The card that you have posted a picture of is NOT a draft card.... It is a federal crime to forge or alter a draft card ....BUT it's bot illegal to create a obviously fake draft card like the one you've posted....Lee Oswald would have been well aware of this fact....Thus he created the silly rendition.
AND....The FBI and the Warren Commission would have known that the card with the photo was a fake....and then they should have rejected it and investigated it's creation....But they acted as if it was a legitimate draft card.....
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Colin,
There was a whole thread kinda on this topic at the EF a couple of years ago.
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/24175-the-stamp-on-the-military-id-card/
-- MWT ;)
Edit #1: The general consensus on that 24-page EF thread is that, by extrapolation, the photo on Hidell's "classification" card, above, was taken (or created?) in Minsk.
Edit #2: It get's really interesting on page 20, a little more than halfway down, on Chris Newton's September 14 post where he notices the black spot on that guy's neck, and the fact that the same-but-unused photo was found in Oswald's "scrapbook" or "photo book".
You might want to check it out ...
Edit #3: Interestingly, that photo is featured in the Wikipedia article on Oswald, and when one looks at it and notices another spot on the general image, one wonders if the black spot on the neck is a biological feature of the dude (or a compilation of two dudes?), or if it was just a byproduct of a rather sloppy photographic process, be it of a normal photographic situation (of Oswald, or someone in Minsk who resembled him), or of a more exotic, "fake photo"/compilation nature.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Harvey_Oswald
PS Am I "virtuous," yet?
No the card was not created in Minsk....Lee created that silly rendition of a Selective Service Card in New Orleans ......
A poster in the EF wrote:....."over the picture is what appears to be a post office stamp dated October 23, 1963. Where the heck did that stamp come from?"
Please....Those of you who are erstwhile researchers OPEN YOUR EYES and examine that so called "post Office stamp" If you look closely you'll see that the "post office stamp was made by using a US quarter dollar coin.....( naturally the words are written backward but there's no doubt that a quarter and an inkpad were used to create a stamp to fill the are of the photo that was taken in Minsk. Lee used that photo when he created the silly "draft card"....
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"In the event of war, I would kill any American who put a uniform on in defense of the American government--any American."
- Lee Harvey Oswald, letter to his brother
"Lee was sick...he didn't know who he was."
- Marina Oswald
Imagine looking out your window and seeing your next door neighbor doing this? Having his pregnant wife photograph him? This is an unstable person. Who does he think he is?
Imagine looking out your window and seeing your next door neighbor carrying a 34.8" pipe-like device at his side, with 24" & 27" clearly marked, and demonstrating a variety of profiles showing how an individual can easily minimize said profiles. Who does this guy think he is? Some LNer trying to disprove a WC claim?
Edit: Corrected 32.8"
6:56 EST
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Imagine looking out your window and seeing your next door neighbor carrying a 32.8" pipe-like device at his side, with 24" & 27" clearly marked, and demonstrating a variety of profiles showing how an individual can easily minimize said profiles. Who does this guy think he is? Some LNer trying to disprove a WC claim?
So now your alleged pipelike device has shrunk to 32.8 inches. You're making this up as you go along!
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So now your alleged pipelike device has shrunk to 32.8 inches. You're making this up as you go along!
My neighbor estimated the smaller size...
But good catch, TypoSuckJohnny. The actual length of my device is 34.6" to be 100% accurate. Now there's your chance to quibble over the difference between 34.8" and my device length of 34.6"
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Hypothetically, how would a criminal trial jury have regarded Ms. Randall's testimony, "supported by" these images?
IOW, what are some of you posters even speculating about?
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/randlelm.htm
……Mr. BALL. Did you see Lee?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, I did.
Mr. BALL. Where did you see him?
Mrs. RANDLE. I saw him as he crossed the street and come across my driveway to where Wesley had his car parked by the carport.
Mr. BALL. What street did he cross to go over?
Mrs. RANDLE. He crossed Westbrook.
Mr. BALL. And you saw him walking along, did you?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Was he carrying any package?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes; he was.
Mr. BALL. What was he carrying?
Mrs. RANDLE. He was carrying a package in a sort of a heavy brown bag, heavier than a grocery bag it looked to me. It was about, if I might measure, about this long, I suppose, and he carried it in his right hand, had the top sort of folded down and had a grip like this, and the bottom, he carried it this way, you know, and it almost touched the ground as he carried it.
Mr. BALL. Let me see. He carried it in his right hand, did he?
Mrs. RANDLE. That is right.
Mr. BALL. And where was his hand gripping the middle of the package?
Mrs. RANDLE. No, sir; the top with just a little bit sticking up. You know just like you grab something like that.
Mr. BALL. And he was grabbing it with his right hand at the top of the package and the package almost touched the ground?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. He walked over to your house, did he?
Mrs. RANDLE. Well, I saw him as he started crossing the street. Where he come from then I couldn't say.
Mr. BALL. You don't know where he went from that?
Mrs. RANDLE. Where he went?
Mr. BALL. Did you see him go to the car?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes.
Mr. BALL. What did he do?
Mrs. RANDLE. He opened the right back door and I just saw that he was laying the package down so I closed the door. I didn't recognize him as he walked across my carport and I at that moment I wondered who was fixing to come to my back door so I opened the door slightly and saw that it--I assumed he was getting in the car but he didn't, so he come back and stood on the driveway.
Mr. BALL. He put the package in the car.
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir; I don't know if he put it on the seat or on the floor but I just know he put it in the back. ...
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/randlelm.htm
…Mr. BALL. I have one question, Mr. Chief Justice.
You used an expression there, that the bag appeared heavy.
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. You meant that there was some weight appeared to--
Mrs. RANDLE. To the bottom.
Mr. BALL. To the bottom?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes. It tapered like this as he hugged it in his hand. It was more bulky toward the bottom than it was this way.
Mr. BELIN. Toward the top? More bulky toward the bottom than toward the top?
Mrs. RANDLE. That is right.
Mr. BALL. I have no further questions.
Senator COOPER. On that point--did you see Lee Oswald place the package in the automobile?
Mrs. RANDLE. In the automobile. I do not know if he put it on the seat or on the floor.
Senator COOPER. I mean did you see him throw open the. door?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir.
Senator COOPER. When he placed the package in there do you remember whether he used one hand or two?
Mrs. RANDLE. No; because I only opened the door briefly and what made me establish the door on Wesley's car, it is an old car and that door, the window is broken and everything and it is hard to close, so that cinched in my mind which door it was, too. But it was only briefly that I looked.
Mr. JENNER. Mr. Chief Justice, could I ask--how far away were you? You were at the kitchen door and the automobile was in the driveway, what was the distance between yourself and Mr. Oswald?
Mrs. RANDLE. Sir, I don't know. The carport will take care of two cars, and then Wesley's car was on the other side of the carport so that would be three car lengths plus in between space.
Mr. JENNER. Car widths?
Mrs. RANDLE. Car widths, excuse me.
(https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/pages/WH_Vol17_0097a.jpg)
(https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/pages/WH_Vol17_0096b.jpg)
Mr. JENNER. Was it a light day?
Mrs. RANDLE. It was sort of cloudy, but there wasn't any--I mean it wasn't dark or anything like that.
Mr. JENNER. Would you be good enough as you can recall--can you recall what the fabric of the jacket was that Mr. Oswald had on this morning, was it twill or wool or gabardine? Cotton?
Mrs. RANDLE. Probably cotton or gabardine, something like that that would repel water probably, and that is just my own opinion.
Mr. JENNER. That is your present recollection?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir. …..