JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Michael Welch on May 06, 2022, 02:56:35 AM
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On 11-22-63, TSBD employees William Shelley, Danny Arce, and Bonnie Ray Williams were filmed being taken in a car by a Dallas Patrolman dressed in blue over to the Sheriff's Office. However, Detective B. L. Senkel said that he and Detective C. W. Brown took them over in Detective Brown's car. They were dressed in suits and camel colored hats. Why the discrepancy? Sincerely yours, Michael
(https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth339517/m1/2/?q=b%20l%20senkel)
(https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth339517/m1/6/?q=b%20l%20senkel)
(https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth338130/m1/2/?q=c%20w%20brown)
(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/Allen2~0.jpg)
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Look at the guy taking photos. He has two cameras. I wonder who he is and if his photos have ever surfaced.
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Hi Gerry, His name is supposed to be Ted Rozumalski from the Houston Chronicle. You can credit Denis Morissette. I do not know about his photos. Sincerely yours, Michael
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On 11-22-63, TSBD employees William Shelley, Danny Arce, and Bonnie Ray Williams were filmed being taken in a car by a Dallas Patrolman dressed in blue over to the Sheriff's Office. However, Detective B. L. Senkel said that he and Detective C. W. Brown took them over in Detective Brown's car. They were dressed in suits and camel colored hats. Why the discrepancy? Sincerely yours, Michael
(https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth339517/m1/2/?q=b%20l%20senkel)
(https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth339517/m1/6/?q=b%20l%20senkel)
(https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth338130/m1/2/?q=c%20w%20brown)
(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/Allen2~0.jpg)
Again, it's unclear what point you are trying to make.
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Hi Richard, Here we have a picture of probably Patrolman J. D. Chadwick driving Mr. Shelley, Arce, and Williams over to the Sheriff's Office.
(https://i0.wp.com/i62.servimg.com/u/f62/19/52/40/87/jfk_as10.jpg?resize=800%2C533&ssl=1)
Here we have a picture of Detective C. W. Brown who said he drove his car with Detective B. L. Senkel and Mr. Shelley, Arce, and Williams over to the Sheriff's Office.
(https://i0.wp.com/www.prayer-man.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/hygenic-rights-transfer-3-shots-that-changed-america-1.jpg?resize=768%2C432)
Here is a picture of Detective Senkel.
(https://jfkinvestigators.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/senkel-billy-comparison.jpg?w=473&h=346)
Here is Detective Brown's report.
(https://i0.wp.com/www.prayer-man.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/0935-001.jpg?w=1712)
Did all of the Detectives just make things up? Why the discrepancy? Sincerely yours, Michael
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Thanks. I've seen the photo presented in the opening post many times but i have not seen an angle of this photo from the other guy with the two cameras. It looks like he was taking a photo of Bonnie Rae Williams being put in the patrol car.
I think there might also be a film of this incident of Bonnie Rae Williams being put in the patrol car. It was taken at a distance from the center of Dealey Plaza and is a bit blurry. I've seen it before but i can't remember who the camera man was or provide a link to that footage.
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Hi Gerry, Thank you very much! If you run across anything, please post it. Sincerely yours, Michael
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Hi Richard, Here we have a picture of probably Patrolman J. D. Chadwick driving Mr. Shelley, Arce, and Williams over to the Sheriff's Office.
(https://i0.wp.com/i62.servimg.com/u/f62/19/52/40/87/jfk_as10.jpg?resize=800%2C533&ssl=1)
Here we have a picture of Detective C. W. Brown who said he drove his car with Detective B. L. Senkel and Mr. Shelley, Arce, and Williams over to the Sheriff's Office.
(https://i0.wp.com/www.prayer-man.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/hygenic-rights-transfer-3-shots-that-changed-america-1.jpg?resize=768%2C432)
Here is a picture of Detective Senkel.
(https://jfkinvestigators.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/senkel-billy-comparison.jpg?w=473&h=346)
Here is Detective Brown's report.
(https://i0.wp.com/www.prayer-man.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/0935-001.jpg?w=1712)
Did all of the Detectives just make things up? Why the discrepancy? Sincerely yours, Michael
Why would anyone make up such a minor thing? Not every discrepancy in the world has significance. I'm not clear what the point is. That because there is allegedly ambiguity on this unimportant point that it somehow discredits the entire case?
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Hi Richard, I can understand your perspective. That you think it is a minor point. To me, how hard is it to remember what suspects you drove over to the Sheriff's Office after being told by Captain Fritz to do it! Was sloppiness the standard? It seems to be to me. Thank you for everything, Sincerely yours, Michael
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Hi Richard, I can understand your perspective. That you think it is a minor point. To me, how hard is it to remember what suspects you drove over to the Sheriff's Office after being told by Captain Fritz to do it! Was sloppiness the standard? It seems to be to me. Thank you for everything, Sincerely yours, Michael
Brown wasn't a detective. Senkel refers to Brown as "Officer C. W. Brown." Senkel refers to other detectives (e.g. Sims and Boyd) as "detectives," so he's not using "officer" as a generic term for any DPD member. For that matter if you look at the DPD personnel assignments in Batchelor exhibit 5002, C.W. Brown noted as being a "patrolman assigned C.I.D." If he was a patrolman, then it's likely that he was wearing a regular uniform that day, and that he's the left shoulder you see driving the car with Arce, Williams, and Shelley.
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Hi Mitch, This particular C. W. Brown is a detective. Thank you for your efforts. Sincerely yours, MichaelTESTIMONY OF C. W. BROWN
The testimony of C. W. Brown was taken at 3:30 p.m., on April 3, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. David W. Belin, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.
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Mr. BELIN. Let's get you sworn inhere. Do you want to stand and raise your right hand?
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. BROWN. I do.
Mr. BELIN. Would you state your name for the record, please.
Mr. BROWN. C. W. Brown.
Mr. BELIN. Where do you live, Mr. Brown?
Mr. BROWN. I live in DeSoto, Tex.
Mr. BELIN. Is that a suburb of Dallas?
Mr. BROWN. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. What is your occupation?
Mr. BROWN. Police officer.
Mr. BELIN. How long have you been a police officer?
Mr. BROWN. Thirteen years.
Mr. BELIN. Where are you from originally?
Mr. BROWN. Dallas, and DeSoto is my home.
Mr. BELIN. You go to school there?
Mr. BROWN. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. How far did you go through school?
Mr. BROWN. Through high school.
Mr. BELIN. Did you graduate from the high school in DeSoto?
Mr. BROWN. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?
Mr. BROWN. I went into the Navy.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do in the Navy?
Mr. BROWN. Spent 3 years in the Navy during World War II.
Mr. BELIN. How old are you, by the way?
Mr. BROWN. Thirty-eight.
Mr. BELIN. Married?
Mr. BROWN. No; divorced.
Mr. BELIN. You were in the Navy for 3 years?
Mr. BROWN. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. What were you doing when you got out of the Navy?
Mr. BROWN. When I got out of the Navy I was employed by the Southwestern Bell Telephone Co.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do in the Navy, by the way?
Mr. BROWN. During the war I was a coxswain, as a third class petty officer, in the amphibious branch of the Navy.
Then after the war the peace was signed and I was a radioman until my discharge in 1944.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do after the war?
Mr. BROWN. I started to work for Southwestern Bell Telephone Co.
Mr. BELIN. As what?
Mr. BROWN. As an installer.
Mr. BELIN Of telephones?
Mr. BROWN. Yes; I was employed with those people 5 years before I went to work for the city of Dallas.
Mr. BELIN. Is there anything--well, what did you do after that? Just go to work for the city of Dallas Police Department?
Mr. BROWN. Yes; I have been with those people ever since.
Mr. BELIN. How long now?
Mr. BROWN. Thirteen years.
Mr. BELIN. What is your position now?
Mr. BROWN. I am detective in the homicide and robbery bureau.
Mr. BELIN. Were you on duty on November 22, 1963?
Mr. BROWN. Yes, sir; I was.
Mr. BELIN. What were you doing around noon or so?
Mr. BROWN. I was booking a prisoner in at the city hall, with Detective J.R. Leavelle.
Mr. BELIN. When did you first hear of the shooting of the President?
Mr. BROWN. It came on our police intercom radio that we have in the office.
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Hi Mitch, This particular C. W. Brown is a detective. Thank you for your efforts. Sincerely yours, Michael
TESTIMONY OF C. W. BROWN
The testimony of C. W. Brown was taken at 3:30 p.m., on April 3, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. David W. Belin, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.
Mr. BELIN. What is your position now?
Mr. BROWN. I am detective in the homicide and robbery bureau.
Brown being a detective on April 3, 1964 does not mean that he was a detective on November 22,1963. Again, Senkel referred to Brown as "officer Brown" and not "Detective Brown," while Senkle refers to other detectives explicitly with the title "detective." And Batchelor's duty roster/org chart for Nov 22 specifically refers to Brown as a "patrolman," not detective.
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Hi Mitch, He was a detective on 11-22-63. He, as a Detective, was working with Detective James Leavelle. On 11-24-63, Detective C. W. Brown was backing his car up to pick up Mr. Oswald when Mr. Oswald was shot. Sincerely yours, Michael
Here, again, is Detective Brown in his suit and hat. He was not wearing patrolman blues on 11-22-63.
(https://i0.wp.com/www.prayer-man.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/13690953_10205449268545726_4001494482612232235_o.jpg?resize=1024%2C748)
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For years, this man in the circle has been misidentified as Detective C. W. Brown or Detective B. L. Senkel and has recently been misidentified as Mr. Arnold Rowland by me. He is in fact Detective Jerry D. Hutchinson. He and probably patrolman Officer J. L. Chadwick took Mr. Shelley, Mr. Williams and Mr. Arce over to the Sheriff's Office between 1:30 and 2pm on 11-22-63. You can credit Mr. Denis Morissette with the identification. I just had to finally find it on his identification page. Detective Jerry D. Hutchinson was in several pictures of Oswald's transfer on 11-24-63, and he was captured in several pictures taken by Jack Beers. Here are some pictures from Robin's famous gallery. Sincerely yours, Michael
(http://i.imgur.com/1qAgoZo.jpg)
(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/high_res6.jpg)
(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/high_res1.jpg)
(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/high_res2.jpg)
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Brown being a detective on April 3, 1964 does not mean that he was a detective on November 22,1963. Again, Senkel referred to Brown as "officer Brown" and not "Detective Brown," while Senkle refers to other detectives explicitly with the title "detective." And Batchelor's duty roster/org chart for Nov 22 specifically refers to Brown as a "patrolman," not detective.
You think Brown just became a brand new detective after November 22, 1963? :D