JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Allan Fritzke on January 10, 2021, 08:20:37 PM
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The only logical place that the polaroid photo taken by Mary Moorman was done at was Zapruder Z319. This is the point where Kennedy's shoulder is up high and Kellerman face/forehead is turned into the sunlight. It is my belief that when you line up the heads in the picture with Kellerman and Nellie and John Connally, that this is the best match of photo. That puts it 6 frames after the "pseudo" headshot at Z313. It has always been claimed that the headshot occurred just after she snapped the picture. That maybe true - Z322 and or Z330! (2 shots in quick succession as a reporter on the scene had stated.)
https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/displayimage.php?pid=663&fullsize=1 (https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/displayimage.php?pid=663&fullsize=1)
(https://i.postimg.cc/6qCdY6Yk/Paths-of-Kellerman-Connally.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Mp3j0jzc/Blowup-of-Kellerman.jpg)
(https://sites.google.com/site/lightboxzframes/lightbox/z300-z349/z319.jpg)
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The only logical place that the polaroid photo taken by Mary Moorman was done at was Zapruder Z319. This is the point where Kennedy's shoulder is up high and Kellerman face/forehead is turned into the sunlight. It is my belief that when you line up the heads in the picture with Kellerman and Nellie and John Connally, that this is the best match of photo. That puts it 6 frames after the "pseudo" headshot at Z313. It has always been claimed that the headshot occurred just after she snapped the picture. That maybe true - Z322 and or Z330! (2 shots in quick succession as a reporter on the scene had stated.)
https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/displayimage.php?pid=663&fullsize=1 (https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/displayimage.php?pid=663&fullsize=1)
(https://i.postimg.cc/6qCdY6Yk/Paths-of-Kellerman-Connally.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Mp3j0jzc/Blowup-of-Kellerman.jpg)
(https://sites.google.com/site/lightboxzframes/lightbox/z300-z349/z319.jpg)
"pseudo" headshot
Give me a break. You can't be that far gone.
It has always been claimed that the headshot occurred just after she snapped the picture.
Where has this 'always' been claimed because there is a very easy way to disprove this claim.
In fact, it's so easy to disprove that I believe you're talking nonsense.
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"pseudo" headshot
Give me a break. You can't be that far gone.
It has always been claimed that the headshot occurred just after she snapped the picture.
Where has this 'always' been claimed because there is a very easy way to disprove this claim.
In fact, it's so easy to disprove that I believe you're talking nonsense.
So I wished peopl wouldn't answer in innuendos like a dog chasing its tail and having nothing to say but hear themselves talk. You don't need to answer if you don't have anything to say. Tell me when you think the Moorman photo was taken? I have given you my best guess for Z319 - still waiting for a reasonable reply rather than sarcastic rhetoric. What is your theory on that? I hate to quote tabloids but I know that is all you can see are posts from vanity fair and the likes and other popular posts!
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2510204/The-Woman-Blue-Raincoat-took-famous-Polaroid-JFK-shot-speaks-says-thinks-theres-story.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2510204/The-Woman-Blue-Raincoat-took-famous-Polaroid-JFK-shot-speaks-says-thinks-theres-story.html)
Tragic moment: Mary Ann Moorman took this Polaroid photograph, showing the President and the First Lady reacting after Kennedy had been hit in the throat. Almost the instant after this photo was taken, Kennedy was hit in the head
I heard the shot, took the camera down, and I heard two more shots,' she told the Today Show.
'Just pow, pow, pow.'
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(https://i.postimg.cc/xdGNgmjR/Moorman-2.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Two motorcycle cops are passing between Moorman and the limo as she takes the picture.
We can't see the cop closest as he hasn't come into view yet but we can see his bike.
The cop closer to the limo is easily seen
Ignore the cop on the far side of the limo
NOW -
Look at the position of Zapruder in the Moorman pic.
He is in between the two cops closest to Moorman.
This means that when we watch the Z-film Moorman must be in between the two cops when she takes the picture.
Moorman is not in between the two cops until z315.
This means she must have taken her picture after the bullet struck JFK's head.
My best guess is z316
Moorman has just gone out of shot (a bit of her elbow might be visible), but the bikes seem to be in the correct position as in the Moorman picture.
(https://i.postimg.cc/9MyyqkKL/z316.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Just to let you know, I think you're labelling of the JFK headshot as "pseudo" is BS:
The Z-film hasn't been altered.
Get over it
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The most common answer I have heard is frame 315. If you calculate lines of sight through the limo to the fence in the Knoll and certain portions of the stairs it shows the limo to be at the frame 315 position. It is hard to be completely accurate But it seems to be about three feet past frame 313.
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Z-315
(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/Mary_Ann_Moorman_Krahmer.jpg)
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Z-315
(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/Mary_Ann_Moorman_Krahmer.jpg)
Agreed, about 315.
As a "sidebar" comment: please notice that it appears (to me) there is no brain/blood matter emerging from the back of JFK's head. JFK's rear/back of the head is, again to me, fully intact. I'm sure others will disagree.
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On your sidebar comment while it appears reasonable on its face quite a few Parkland doctors and nurses will disagree as will Clint Hill who saw a gaping hjole in the back of JFK's head.
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On your sidebar comment while it appears reasonable on its face quite a few Parkland doctors and nurses will disagree as will Clint Hill who saw a gaping hjole in the back of JFK's head.
Yes. And the autopsy doctors and photos and x-rays will disagree with them.
The photo is physical evidence. We all agree - lone assassin or conspiracy believer - that eyewitness recollections can be completely unreliable. As some were in this event, right?
So what evidence does one favor? Physical evidence - photos, x-rays, autopsy reports - or quick eyewitness accounts in a rushed environment? I choose the former.
In any case, we're getting away from the OP. I think the photo aligns with Z-315.
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Z-315
(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/Mary_Ann_Moorman_Krahmer.jpg)
In the Moorman pic we see the "windshield" of the motorbike closest to Moorman.
It doesn't seem right in z315 which is why I prefer z316 (not that it matters much in the grand scheme of things)
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The most common answer I have heard is frame 315. If you calculate lines of sight through the limo to the fence in the Knoll and certain portions of the stairs it shows the limo to be at the frame 315 position. It is hard to be completely accurate But it seems to be about three feet past frame 313.
I based it on Z318 to Z319 because it appears Kellerman is not facing directly forward when this photo was taken. I base that assumption on the round profile of the back of his head (as illustrated by another picture of him when he was in a motorcade with FDR. I can agree that the only logical place that the polaroid photo taken by Mary Moorman in her given position on Zapruder film was at Zapruder Z315 or Z316 as everyone pointed out in their arguments. I have always wondered why Jacqueline's actions are delayed and why the Moorman camera appears motionless helplessly stuck pointing at Z300 and then end up taking this picture at Z316 - miracle!
Kellerman's head appears to be turned but it is being masked as well by an obstruction!? At what point does this head turn match Zapruder's frames? (Z319?) I believe John Connally was already at center of compartment. Connally's head sits in the right direction at Z315 or Z316 for the polaroid shot. I can't explain what is obscuring Kellerman's
face. I am sure there is a logical explanation - just don't know what. Was there an object in the front seat between Greer and him that showed up?
https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/displayimage.php?pid=663&fullsize=1 (https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/displayimage.php?pid=663&fullsize=1)
(https://i.postimg.cc/6qCdY6Yk/Paths-of-Kellerman-Connally.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Mp3j0jzc/Blowup-of-Kellerman.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/pXLVy7HR/Mary-Ann-Moorman-1920-1080-Blowup.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/x8QbhSqW/Mary-Ann-Moorman-with-FDR-Keller-on-Kellerman-with-Text1-2flag.jpg)
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I never paid much attention if any to JFK in the Moorman photo. But, looking at the enlargement now it appears to indicate a massive skull defect toward the top and front. Am I seeing that right?
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I never paid much attention if any to JFK in the Moorman photo. But, looking at the enlargement now it appears to indicate a massive skull defect toward the top and front. Am I seeing that right?
That's what i see also.
headshot Z-313
moorman Z-315
(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/Moormancrop2.jpg)
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(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/normal_Head7.jpg)
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(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/FG1.jpg)
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Kellerman "ducking down" immediately after the headshot.
I slowed the film down so i could concentrate on the movement inside the limo.
I made this stabilized GIF a couple of years ago.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-N6CnYbicsSc/WbUOqG4YYRI/AAAAAAAAAoE/o6hjK492J1IAddHfr0SERsVEX69TVR5eQCLcBGAs/s1600/Zap3.gif)
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Kellerman "ducking down" immediately after the headshot.
I slowed the film down so i could concentrate on the movement inside the limo.
I made this stabilized GIF a couple of years ago.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-N6CnYbicsSc/WbUOqG4YYRI/AAAAAAAAAoE/o6hjK492J1IAddHfr0SERsVEX69TVR5eQCLcBGAs/s1600/Zap3.gif)
You did an absolutely great job on that gif! What software is that and what was the source photos? Duly noted, we do see something in Zapruder Z316 which matches on that side of head or at least front. There seems to be some agreement amongst us! Not only damage on RHS, it may mean the whole entire face was ripped away and swung to the front? You have captured the light aberrations beautifully at Z322 and Z330 where I once thought was glass caught in the light coming through w/s. I have never been sure how to get Connally out of the way! I thought Kellerman was ducked out at both times. Maybe you have a nice cropped image of it perhaps that would show the little tail in the hair that extends up better and the top edge? it can be seen much better when enlarged - although blurry! Too bad a pixellation line shows up right at the explosion/head interface.
(https://i.postimg.cc/x8QbhSqW/Mary-Ann-Moorman-with-FDR-Keller-on-Kellerman-with-Text1-2flag.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/sgPwLT5x/z316-Polaroid.jpg)
(https://sites.google.com/site/lightboxzframes/lightbox/z300-z349/z316.jpg)
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Another stabilized GIF i made a couple of years ago.
This time it was stabilzed on Mary Moorman. notice she has the camera up to her eye the whole time as she tracks the Limo right up to the headshot and then snaps Moorman 5 at frame Z-315
The frames came from the NOVA Cold Case JFK Documentary.
I manually stabilized each frame individually using Paint Shop Pro
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-d--lDDmaDw8/V7_bl2Q-slI/AAAAAAAAAIk/nOqDDtqpNKomq5seaiQ69Q1OEPL3d7J2wCLcB/s1600/Moorman.gif)
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Kellerman "ducking down" immediately after the headshot.
I slowed the film down so i could concentrate on the movement inside the limo.
I made this stabilized GIF a couple of years ago.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-N6CnYbicsSc/WbUOqG4YYRI/AAAAAAAAAoE/o6hjK492J1IAddHfr0SERsVEX69TVR5eQCLcBGAs/s1600/Zap3.gif)
Wow!... Nice work Robin...."something" causes a bright flash in front of Kellerman's face. I'd like to hear a logical explanation for that flash.