JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: James Hackerott on January 11, 2020, 12:45:26 AM
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Is this a Mal Couch Clip?
This 32 frame clip is included with several, shuffled, Mal Couch clips in the JFK: The Ruby Connection video documentary - about 10 years ago, iirc. The video editor tainted all the Couch frames with sepia, for artistic value I guess. The camera location is just west of Haygood's parked motorcycle. I don't remember seeing this clip any other time.
(https://i.imgur.com/6AkpH32.png)
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Hello Mr. James Hackerott.
I found the scene in question in a video by Helmer Reenberg. There the scene is assigned to the couch film. The film has a longer duration (you can see, for example, how Malcolm Couch drives past the Babushka Lady). Unfortunately, the couch film is not of very good quality and Darnell and Couch are all too easily confused.
Here i uploaded a Screenshot:
(https://s19.directupload.net/images/200111/3fmfixkl.jpg) (https://www.directupload.net)
Here is the link to the film in question:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmexsNkEiHc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmexsNkEiHc)
Hope this helps you.
Best wishes
Markus
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Oops,
I forgot to mention that this scene was also seen on David Von Pein's JFK YouTube channel. The name of the video is:
JFK'S ASSASSINATION (WFAA-TV COVERAGE) (PART 2).
For safety's sake the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qy4Fv4xsM4Y&list=PL0O5WNzrZqIOp-NaY1P1TIr-zWKPVBL9Q&index=2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qy4Fv4xsM4Y&list=PL0O5WNzrZqIOp-NaY1P1TIr-zWKPVBL9Q&index=2)
The film scene you are looking for appears after about 30 minutes and 35 seconds. The film also includes footage of Darnell and, as far as I know, other cameramen.
Sorry for forgetting to mention it.
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That’s Couch. I think he went on to Parkland when Alyea told him that he would be covering Dealey Plaza.
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Oops,
I forgot to mention that this scene was also seen on David Von Pein's JFK YouTube channel. The name of the video is:
JFK'S ASSASSINATION (WFAA-TV COVERAGE) (PART 2).
For safety's sake the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qy4Fv4xsM4Y&list=PL0O5WNzrZqIOp-NaY1P1TIr-zWKPVBL9Q&index=2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qy4Fv4xsM4Y&list=PL0O5WNzrZqIOp-NaY1P1TIr-zWKPVBL9Q&index=2)
The film scene you are looking for appears after about 30 minutes and 35 seconds. The film also includes footage of Darnell and, as far as I know, other cameramen.
Sorry for forgetting to mention it.
Markus, thank you very much. Those clips, although very blurry (as you noted), leave me with no doubt the blurry clip I posted is indeed a Mal Couch clip.
As noted by Richard Trask in Pictures of the Pain Mal Couch and Robert Jackson bailed from their CameraCar3 after convincing the driver to let them off after passing the Triple Under Pass. Apparently, Jackson made it back to the rail yard in time for him to be filmed by John Martin Jr, along with Roger Craig etc. Couch probably returned to the plaza along the sidewalk that passes through the north TUP tunnel, and films this subject scene at Haygood's parked motorcycle. For me, this is a new film clip. I am especially happy the scene includes the peristyle wall shadow in the background. That shadow, along with the nearby wall holes (cutouts), can be used to timestamp the clip. Very unfortunate for me is all three versions of that clip (mine and the two you linked) are hopelessly blurry-so much I can't make out the wall holes at all!
There is an indirect way to timestamp the scene by noting the similarity to a photo taken by Frank Cancellare from atop the knoll. Below is the Cancellare image from Robin Unger's online photo collection.
(https://i.imgur.com/mhYt9xh.png)
That photo shows a peristyle wall shadow equivalent to about 12:32.
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2013.0.html
At lower right we see a man with thinning hair and hand in his left pants pocket. Near him is a man with his back to the camera wearing a Stetson style hat. In the street behind them we see the rear half of Haygood's parked motorcycle. I believe these two men are near Couch's camera and center frame in the film clip.
(https://i.imgur.com/CkQXB02.png)
Other similarities with Cancellare's photo are Mary Moorman with Jim Featherston standing along the south curb of Elm. To their right (photo left) is a standing man wearing a dark jacket with white pants. Cancellare's photo includes Charles Brehm with his son, still at the south Elm curb. Brehm and son are not present in the Couch clip.
1. This Couch clip was taken very shortly after the Cancellare photo and puts the Couch scene estimated time at 12:32-12:33.
At my visit to the Sixth Floor Museum's Reading Room I briefly viewed their Couch film scenes filmed in Dealey Plaza. I noted early in my notes that the museum's copy is slightly blurry, about the same as found in many documentary DVDs. I made a timeline of the scenes but made no mention of this clip in my notes. I don't know if I just missed it or it was not present. I do know that now I will pay very special attention to the museum's version for this scene. My hope is the clip is that their clip has enough clarity to determine a time stamp from the peristyle wall shadow.
Thank you again Markus for taking the time to locate those video references.
James
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Gary Mack told me that the quality of the original is excellent. I don’t think so!
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Gary Mack told me that the quality of the original is excellent. I don’t think so!
I'll mention that to Krishna when I'm ready to make an appointment.
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Please keep an eye on the Babushka Lady in Couch.
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Markus, thank you very much. Those clips, although very blurry (as you noted), leave me with no doubt the blurry clip I posted is indeed a Mal Couch clip.
As noted by Richard Trask in Pictures of the Pain Mal Couch and Robert Jackson bailed from their CameraCar3 after convincing the driver to let them off after passing the Triple Under Pass. Apparently, Jackson made it back to the rail yard in time for him to be filmed by John Martin Jr, along with Roger Craig etc. Couch probably returned to the plaza along the sidewalk that passes through the north TUP tunnel, and films this subject scene at Haygood's parked motorcycle. For me, this is a new film clip. I am especially happy the scene includes the peristyle wall shadow in the background. That shadow, along with the nearby wall holes (cutouts), can be used to timestamp the clip. Very unfortunate for me is all three versions of that clip (mine and the two you linked) are hopelessly blurry-so much I can't make out the wall holes at all!
There is an indirect way to timestamp the scene by noting the similarity to a photo taken by Frank Cancellare from atop the knoll. Below is the Cancellare image from Robin Unger's online photo collection.
(https://i.imgur.com/mhYt9xh.png)
That photo shows a peristyle wall shadow equivalent to about 12:32.
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2013.0.html
At lower right we see a man with thinning hair and hand in his left pants pocket. Near him is a man with his back to the camera wearing a Stetson style hat. In the street behind them we see the rear half of Haygood's parked motorcycle. I believe these two men are near Couch's camera and center frame in the film clip.
(https://i.imgur.com/CkQXB02.png)
Other similarities with Cancellare's photo are Mary Moorman with Jim Featherston standing along the south curb of Elm. To their right (photo left) is a standing man wearing a dark jacket with white pants. Cancellare's photo includes Charles Brehm with his son, still at the south Elm curb. Brehm and son are not present in the Couch clip.
1. This Couch clip was taken very shortly after the Cancellare photo and puts the Couch scene estimated time at 12:32-12:33.
At my visit to the Sixth Floor Museum's Reading Room I briefly viewed their Couch film scenes filmed in Dealey Plaza. I noted early in my notes that the museum's copy is slightly blurry, about the same as found in many documentary DVDs. I made a timeline of the scenes but made no mention of this clip in my notes. I don't know if I just missed it or it was not present. I do know that now I will pay very special attention to the museum's version for this scene. My hope is the clip is that their clip has enough clarity to determine a time stamp from the peristyle wall shadow.
Thank you again Markus for taking the time to locate those video references.
James
Hello James,
thanks for the post. The scene seemed familiar to me and therefore came quickly to the version by Helmer Reenberg. A little later I remembered the film by David Von Pein (it has a very extensive and informative video archive of various television stations, which reported on the JFK assassination day).
Excellent work as you associated the scene from the couch film with the Cancellare Picture (I would probably have watched the film 100 times and could not find any connection, although I am also interested in a temporal reference of the Cancellare picture).
You are right that what is seen on the couch is very close to the Cancellare shot, which suggests a small time difference.
As for the quality of the couch film, there may be a better version on Youtube. I am not quite sure, but I am forming a better long version (which also contains the film scene in question), but with the variety of videos on YouTube I no longer know which one it was (maybe I'm just wrong). However, I am strongly convinced that there could be a better long version, just compare the short version of Couch of the YouTube channel Blankdogman https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4GGU6-n1BM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4GGU6-n1BM) with the long version that Helmer Reenberg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmexsNkEiHc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmexsNkEiHc) put on YouTube.
Especially at the point where the couch is filming, the policeman he drives past can clearly see that the Blankdogmann version is much clearer (you can see the face of the police officer more clearly) than the version by HelmerReenberg (but definitely shouldn't be a negative criticism of this channel represent).
Maybe there is still a better film.
Please keep an eye on the Babushka Lady in Couch.
I can only join Dennis Morissette, that would be great to finally give this pseudonym "Babushka Lady" a face and the film could help a lot, as I have already mentioned elsewhere, Robin Unger has managed to make her face more recognizable , The Babushka Lady could be a very important key figure in the JFK assassination.
Anyway thanks again for the post.
Best wishes
Markus
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Gary Mack told me that the quality of the original is excellent. I don’t think so!
Yes, speaking of excellent sounds very optimistic (or even utopian). In fairness, however, must admit that there are slightly better versions (at least short versions) on Youtube. The above version of Blankdogman is an example. Maybe at some point we will find a better version of the full movie.
Until then, i wish you continued success in your research.
Best wishes
Markus
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Yes, speaking of excellent sounds very optimistic (or even utopian). In fairness, however, must admit that there are slightly better versions (at least short versions) on Youtube. The above version of Blankdogman is an example. Maybe at some point we will find a better version of the full movie.
Until then, i wish you continued success in your research.
Best wishes
Markus
As is of often the case, the Image time stamping is Incorrect. Does Anybody realistically believe that Old Guy wearing the stetson hat, (probably a detective), made it to the bottom of the Grassy Knoll by 12:32/LESS than 2 Minutes following the assassination? He's probably one of the same guys we see on Darnell back in the railroad yard area. The Incorrect time stamping of many of the JFK Assassination Images continues to Dog this case.
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As is of often the case, the Image time stamping is Incorrect. Does Anybody realistically believe that Old Guy wearing the stetson hat, (probably a detective), made it to the bottom of the Grassy Knoll by 12:32/LESS than 2 Minutes following the assassination? He's probably one of the same guys we see on Darnell back in the railroad yard area. The Incorrect time stamping of many of the JFK Assassination Images continues to Dog this case.
Well, as far as my knowledge of locations and their correct allocation of the timestamp is concerned, I have already proven my incompetence in previous posts (see my first post in this forum, where I considered that the face of the Babushka Lady on one the Bronson pictures could be seen. You have corrected this correctly that this cannot be the Babushka lady, as she could not have made it to Dealey Plaza in time, thanks again for that Royell Storing). Unfortunately, i have insufficient local knowledge of Dallas.
James Hackerott did a great job of realizing the temporal proximity between the Cancellare photo and the couch scene, I wouldn't have noticed that easily.
Best wishes
Markus
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This is a good copy of the rare portion of the Couch film we are talking about. It comes from the AP YT, but can't locate the exact link at this moment.
It also includes rare WFAA/L'Hoste footage taken on Stemmons, I think. The film is not very good.
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This is a good copy of the rare portion of the Couch film we are talking about. It comes from the AP YT, but can't locate the exact link at this moment.
It also includes rare WFAA/L'Hoste footage taken on Stemmons, I think. The film is not very good.
Hello Mr Morissette,
thanks for the post.
the AP version is very similar to the Helmer Reenberg version, the L'Hoste recordings start at about 2:14, right?
I could well imagine that there is also a clearer longer version of the couch film. As I said, the shorter version of the Blankdogman YouTube channel is somewhat clearer in my opinion than that of the AP (Maybe the quality loss is also due to the Bandicam software?). For comparison, the police officer scene (I like to use this scene as a quality reference):
Scene from AP-Version:
(https://s19.directupload.net/images/200116/nfqfsoc8.jpg) (https://www.directupload.net)
Here from Blankdogman:
(https://s19.directupload.net/images/200116/hvpnh5pj.jpg) (https://www.directupload.net)
Who knows, with a little luck we might find a better version.
Best wishes
Markus
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Yes, the footage from 2:14 is of L'Hoste/WFAA. I can check my collection to find out the best Couch version that I have that was taken in Dealey Plaza.
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Yes, the footage from 2:14 is of L'Hoste/WFAA. I can check my collection to find out the best Couch version that I have that was taken in Dealey Plaza.
I wish you much success and thank you for your effort
Best regards
Markus
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I’ll try to get a better version tonight. I have figured out why I was unable to record off VLC.
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There it is. VLC made things that did not make sense, so I have given up for now. But I did improve the brightness and contrast on VLC and recorded the screen with a different software. The result is better but disappointing. The software did not consider the different settings I used. I hope to make a better one.
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Using the better version, I tried to make the face of the Babushka Lady more recognizable. Unfortunately not with the desired success. With the software GIMP and OpenOffice I tried out various brightness and contrast values and applied sharpness filters. However, I have to be ashamed of the result:
(https://s19.directupload.net/images/200120/a3n8ujv7.png) (https://www.directupload.net)
Unfortunately, a clear face cannot be seen here either, and if so, it looks more cartoon-like and not like a real person. I'm pretty inexperienced when it comes to image editing. Certainly someone can do it much better.
Best wishes
Markus
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The best is to order Breaking the News and Unsolved History on Amazon. About $10 each.
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The best I have ever been able to do.
http://postimg.cc/q6CB9HKY
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The best is to order Breaking the News and Unsolved History on Amazon. About $10 each.
"The Day Kennedy Died" DVD has roughly 9 seconds of very clear Couch footage at 33:08 - 33:17. This was done by the Smithsonian Channel and everything they do is Top Shelf visually. The segment they show reveals the South side of Elm St showing Apron Man and a DPD Cop West of him maybe 25-30 feet back from the curb. It also includes the segment showing Officer Haygood uprighting his motorcycle while the Chism's run by on the sidewalk. You can also make out the Hatted Wiegman inside of the camera car with the passenger door open, while a photog scramble to get inside while climbing over the trunk. Everything being relative, this is the Clearest Couch footage I have seen.
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I've just watched the Couch film in the Day JFK Died. I did not find it better than the Breaking News or Unsolved History versions.
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Hello again,
tried again to filter out the face of the Babushka Lady from the couch film. Unfortunately, the result is still disappointing. Curiously, I have 2 versions in which I am not quite sure whether part of the face is visible (the round and angular contrast frames were created because I only selected and edited part of the face, unfortunately, it gives the impression that a different picture has been put over it, but this does not correspond to the facts. Only part of the face was processed in the picture, hence this unpleasant side effect with Gimp.). Here are the pictures again:
(https://s19.directupload.net/images/200202/siqrdyep.jpg) (https://www.directupload.net)
(https://s19.directupload.net/images/200202/ptnp7agy.jpg) (https://www.directupload.net)
Personally, I think the former picture is the more "realistic" one (almost cynical to speak of realistic here). The second looks to me like "Lucky Luke" and realy not like a real person. For comparison, a strong oblique view of her face from an Allen photo:
(https://s19.directupload.net/images/200202/yojrqich.jpg) (https://www.directupload.net)
(https://s19.directupload.net/images/200202/siqrdyep.jpg) (https://www.directupload.net)
(https://s19.directupload.net/images/200202/ptnp7agy.jpg) (https://www.directupload.net)
Even about JFK: Breaking the news DVD version, I haven't been able to filter anything better so far, although it is of a fairly good quality. Maybe I will keep trying.
Best wishes
Markus
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Markus - Remember when Images do Not Mesh Up, you are operating under the assumption that All of the Images you are working with are Unaltered. You just might be drinking from an already Poisoned Well.
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Markus - Remember when Images do Not Mesh Up, you are operating under the assumption that All of the Images you are working with are Unaltered. You just might be drinking from an already Poisoned Well.
Hello Royell Storing and thank you for your post.
No doubt, the post-processing of pictures is not unproblematic and you run the risk that this will result in total nonsense or, as in my case, an unsightly effect that looks as if I had put another picture over it.
However, believe that you can not avoid the video film to rework or improve the quality of the couch film to make the face of the Babushka Lady more visible (if that is possible at all ??). Very difficult with this pixel porridge.
I hope that someone more capable than me may take up this couch problem. Maybe there are other ideas and approaches to learn more about the Babushka Lady.
Best wishes
Markus
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At my visit to the Sixth Floor Museum's Reading Room I briefly viewed their Couch film scenes filmed in Dealey Plaza. I noted early in my notes that the museum's copy is slightly blurry, about the same as found in many documentary DVDs. I made a timeline of the scenes but made no mention of this clip in my notes. I don't know if I just missed it or it was not present. I do know that now I will pay very special attention to the museum's version for this scene. My hope is the clip is that their clip has enough clarity to determine a time stamp from the peristyle wall shadow.
I used an unexpected opportunity for a followup visit to Dealey Plaza last week. A week's weather forecast predicted sunny skies on the 27th. I planned one day for photography and a second half-day for the Reading Room. My goals for the Reading Room included viewing the museum's Mal Couch Dealey Plaza film for this rare clip. However, the clip is missing in each of two different presentations of the Couch film! Interesting, huh?
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I used an unexpected opportunity for a followup visit to Dealey Plaza last week. A week's weather forecast predicted sunny skies on the 27th. I planned one day for photography and a second half-day for the Reading Room. My goals for the Reading Room included viewing the museum's Mal Couch Dealey Plaza film for this rare clip. However, the clip is missing in each of two different presentations of the Couch film! Interesting, huh?
Too bad. Nevertheless, thank you very much James for your efforts and the time invested.
The JFK: Breaking the news version uploaded by Denis Morissette is much clearer than most on You-Tube. Maybe it will help you?
Until then, good luck and all the best
Markus
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Too bad. Nevertheless, thank you very much James for your efforts and the time invested.
The JFK: Breaking the news version uploaded by Denis Morissette is much clearer than most on You-Tube. Maybe it will help you?
Until then, good luck and all the best
Markus
I spent a few minutes in the museum's gift shop (SW 1st floor of the DalTex building). They had at least a dozen of those DVDs on a shelf. I meant to return and buy one before I left Dallas, but forgot. So today, I've ordered a copy, and will have to pay postage and handling, ha ha.