JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Thomas Graves on May 19, 2020, 06:52:09 AM
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Why did Oswald kill JFK?
I posit that the little prick was a true Marxist, that he was fed up with the American and Soviet systems, and that he decided to take matters in his own hands to "advance history".
-- MWT ;)
PS The fact that he wasn't getting any from Marina might have had something to do with it, too, as well as the possibility that he had been trained/programmed in the USSR to do the job ...
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Why did Oswald kill JFK?
I posit that the little prick was a true Marxist, that he was fed up with the American and Soviet systems, and that he decided to take matters in his own hands to "advance history".
-- MWT ;)
PS The fact that he wasn't getting any from Marina might have had something to do with it, too, as well as the possibility that he had been trained/programmed in the USSR to do the job ...
Did Oswald do it so that the KGB, Joachim Joesten, Mark Lane, and Big Jim Garrison, et al., could glom onto it and twist it to their ends?
So that over five decades, Far-Left AND Far-Right (e.g., Oliver Stone and Roger Stone) propagandists could capitalize on and weaponize the RAMIFICATIONS of the myriad implausible-but-true aspects of his Murder Most Foul?
Was there a nascent, dumb hope that "History" would be cajoled ... nay buggered ... towards a "true, equitable" Dictatorship of The Proletariat ... and when THAT faded away of its own accord, The True Workers Paradise would materialize in which kids wouldn't be bugged unmercifully for playing hooky, shooting B-Bs at people from upper-floor windows, and loyally watching every episode of ... I Led Three Lives?
Buggered with great vigor by the "KGB" (with gleeful involvement by Julian Assange, Sean Hannity, and Alex Jones, et al.) as it installed a Final-Phase, Evil-But-Necessary Agent Of True Progress -- Donald John Trump -- as our president?
Or would Oswald turn over in his decomposed William Bobo grave if he knew what his "heroic deed" had wrought?
"Damn, turns out this Dialectical Materialism spombleprofglidnoctobuns is like The Myth of Sisyphus -- 'one step up, two steps back'. If I'd known THAT ..."
https://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/21/nyregion/a-bronx-landlords-tale-and-the-kennedy-assassination.html
-- MWT ;)
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That would largely be my understanding, Oswaldovitch saw this as a way to contribute to the Revolution and he wanted Gus Hall as his lawyer?
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Did Oswald do it so that the KGB, Joachim Joesten, Mark Lane, and Big Jim Garrison, et al., could glom onto it and twist it to their ends?
So that over five decades, Far-Left AND Far-Right (e.g., Oliver Stone and Roger Stone) propagandists could capitalize on and weaponize the RAMIFICATIONS of the myriad implausible-but-true aspects of his Murder Most Foul?
Was there a nascent, dumb hope that "History" would be cajoled ... nay buggered ... towards a "true, equitable" Dictatorship of The Proletariat ... and when THAT faded away of its own accord, The True Workers Paradise would materialize in which kids wouldn't be bugged unmercifully for playing hooky, shooting at people with B-B guns, and loyally watching every episode of ... I Led Three Lives?
Buggered with great vigor by the "KGB" (with gleeful involvement by Julian Assange, Sean Hannity, and Alex Jones, et al.) as it installed a Final-Phase, Evil-But-Necessary Agent Of True Progress -- Donald John Trump -- as our president?
Or would Oswald turn over in his decomposed William Bobo grave if he knew what his "heroic deed" had wrought?
"Damn, turns out this Dialectical Materialism stuff is like The Myth of Sisyphus -- 'one step up, two steps back'. If I'd known THAT ..."
https://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/21/nyregion/a-bronx-landlords-tale-and-the-kennedy-assassination.html
-- MWT ;)
The building in the Bronx has some resemblance to the TSBD. The ledge below the top level windows in particular. It wouldn’t surprise me if the story about the BB gun was true. I can’t think of a logical reason why the landlord or his granddaughter would make it up so many years after it happened. And that behavior fits right in with what we do know about LHO’s activities during that time period.
As to why LHO killed JFK, I believe that his intention was to help defend his hero Fidel Castro, and his regime, from the efforts by the Kennedy administration to remove them. When the opportunity fell into his lap, it was irresistible to him.
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A troubled individual wanting to be someone and to make a difference to the world, to be a 'warrior', to be a hero to Cuba and Castro. Maybe.
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A troubled individual wanting to be someone and to make a difference to the world, to be a 'warrior', to be a hero to Cuba and Castro. Maybe.
Why Did He Do It? For the Umpteenth time--- "To Become Somebody!" Ding ding ding ding! Number one answer!
Then why didn't Oswald admit it? Why didn't he stick his head out of the 6th floor window and scream..."Did I get him"?
Or does little Tommy just want a trophy here for starting the most redundantly obstreperous threads on the entire forum?
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Why Did He Do It? For the Umpteenth time--- "To Become Somebody!" Ding ding ding ding! Number one answer!
Then why didn't Oswald admit it? Why didn't he stick his head out of the 6th floor window and scream..."Did I get him"?
Or does little Tommy just want a trophy here for starting the most redundantly obstreperous threads on the entire forum?
Because he wanted to be someone in his head, to know he'd done it and wanted to be clever enough to fool everyone and get away with it, to go to Cuba, and be a hero there amongst those in the know. Being someone doesn't necessarily mean being an instant celebrity then being executed for it. That's too simplistic an idea.
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Why did Oswald kill JFK?
I posit that the little prick was a true Marxist, that he was fed up with the American and Soviet systems, and that he decided to take matters in his own hands to "advance history".
-- MWT ;)
PS The fact that he wasn't getting any from Marina might have had something to do with it, too, as well as the possibility that he had been trained/programmed in the USSR to do the job ...
Why did Oswald kill JFK?
He didn't..... and he was made the patsy, By Hoover and Johnson
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Why did Oswald kill JFK?
He didn't..... and he was made the patsy, By Hoover and Johnson
"Betcha didn't know I was wearing handcuffs, huh, comrades?"
http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2009/01/bill-winfrey-dallas-morning-news.html?m=1
-- MWT ;)
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Why did Oswald kill JFK?
He didn't..... and he was made the patsy, By Hoover and Johnson
Walter,
Was that before or after the KGB put a Nuclear Armeggedon-Conjuring "WW III Virus" in Oswald's CIA file down in Old Mexico?
-- MWT. ;)
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Walter,
Was that before or after the KGB put a Nuclear Armeggedon-Conjuring "WW III Virus" in Oswald's CIA file down in Old Mexico?
-- MWT. ;)
Don't know about your wild theories..... But I do know that Lee Didn't shoot anybody.
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Don't know about your wild theories..... But I do know that Lee Didn't shoot anybody.
I see.
You get that from Joachim "Commie" Joesten, Mark "Paid by CPUSA To Debunk The Warren Report" Lane, Jim "The Easily Duped By Commie Disinfo Carnival Barker" Garrison, or Oliver "I Like Putin And My Son Works For RT" Stone, by any chance?
James "Jumbo Duh" DiEugenio at the so-called Education Forum?
-- MWT ;)
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I see.
You get that from Joachim "Commie" Joesten, Mark "Paid by CPUSA To Debunk The Warren Report" Lane, Jim "The Easily Duped By Commie Disinfo Carnival Barker" Garrison, or Oliver "I Like Putin And My Son Works For RT" Stone, by any chance?
James "Jumbo Duh" DiEugenio at the so-called Education Forum?
-- MWT ;)
None of the above.... I used my God given brain.....
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None of the above.... I used my God given brain.....
Walter,
Oh!
So, you just kinda intuited "the truth" without even looking at or considering "the evidence" and what other people think about it?
(Have you ever considered working in the freak show part of the circus?)
Did God tell you The Truth about the JFK assassination?
-- MWT ;)
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Walter,
Oh!
So, you just kinda intuited "the truth" without even looking at or considering "the evidence" and what other people think about it?
(Have you ever considered working in the freak show part of the circus?)
Did God tell you The Truth about the JFK assassination?
-- MWT ;)
God endowed me with a brain with which to reason..... I'm sorry to learn that in your arrogance you missed out on the instruction program on how to use your God given brain.
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Or does little Tommy just want a trophy here for starting the most redundantly obstreperous threads on the entire forum?
Ding ding ding ding!
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God endowed me with a brain with which to reason..... I'm sorry to learn that in your arrogance you missed out on the instruction program on how to use your God given brain.
*God-given
-- MWT ;)
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Why did Oswald kill JFK?
I posit that the little prick was a true Marxist, that he was fed up with the American and Soviet systems, and that he decided to take matters in his own hands to "advance history".
-- MWT ;)
PS The fact that he wasn't getting any from Marina might have had something to do with it, too, as well as the possibility that he had been trained/programmed in the USSR to do the job ...
I think that's essentially accurate: that is, his motive was probably a mix of political and personal reasons or grievances. He expressed numerous times his deep dislike of America (even when he was a teenager), of the economic and political systems that he thought were "slave" systems. He said the same thing about the Soviet Union, that it too was a "slave" system. He said he detested both governments and was opposed to both. He also wanted to be, according to Marina and a few others, a great figure, a noted person in history. And I do think he disliked JFK for his (Kennedy's) policies towards Castro and Cuba. So we have this confluence of personal reasons - fame, notoriety, making history - and political - killing the leader of the nation he intensely disliked.
But then we have the question of why did he essentially wait until the last second to shoot JFK? About ten days before the assassination he goes to FBI headquarters - in person! - to complain about what he believed was harassment by them. That's an odd act for someone planning on shooting JFK.
Okay, so at that point he didn't know JFK was coming to Dallas. Or whether he would have an opportunity to kill JFK. Why did he wait until the day before the visit to retrieve his rifle and, essentially, plan things? It all seems so rushed, so last second, so spur of the moment. That's not evidence to me of someone with a deep dislike for Kennedy or the US. That's someone acting hastily, suddenly.
So we have this seeming contradiction: on the one hand we have these deeper political and personal reasons for him to act and on the other we have him acting "late", at the last second, with little planning beforehand. It's a puzzle to me.
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I think that's essentially true - his motive was probably a mix of political and personal reasons. He expressed numerous times his deep dislike of America, of the economic and political systems that he thought were "slave" systems. He said the same thing about the Soviet Union, that it too was a "slave" system. He said he detested both governments. He also wanted to be, according to Marina and a few others, a great figure, a noted person in history. And I do think he disliked JFK for his (Kennedy's) policies towards Castro and Cuba. So we have this confluence of personal reasons - fame, notoriety, making history - and political - killing the leader of the nation he intensely disliked.
But then we have the question of why did he essentially wait until the last second to shoot JFK? About ten days before the assassination he goes to FBI headquarters - in person! - to complain about what he believed was harassment by them. That's an odd act for someone planning on shooting JFK.
Okay, so at that point he didn't know JFK was coming to Dallas. Or whether he would have an opportunity to kill JFK. Why did he wait until the day before the visit to retrieve his rifle and, essentially, plan things? It all seems so rushed, so last second, so spur of the moment. That's not evidence to me of someone with a deep dislike for Kennedy or the US. That's someone acting hastily, suddenly.
So we have this seeming contradiction: on the one hand we have these deeper political and personal reasons for him to act and on the other we have him acting "late", at the last second, with little planning beforehand. It's a puzzle to me.
If Marina had made it up with him on the Thursday maybe it would never have happened. Like you say, a mixture of personal and political reasons that all came together at the last moment.
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http://www.jfklibrary.org/Asset-Viewer/Archives/JFKOH-GRF-01.aspx
Oral History Interview with GERALD R. FORD, July 8, 2003 Avon, Colorado by Vicki Daitch
FORD: I have a feeling, and I think others shared it, that he, Oswald, assassinated Kennedy because he was being prodded by his wife...
DAITCH: Really!?
FORD: ...on his impotence and so forth, and he had to do something to display his bravado. Now, that’s a theory.
DAITCH: That’s interesting.
Yes interesting.
Marina had just given birth to their second child, Audrey Marina Rachel Oswald, on October 20, 1963.
=============================================================================
LBJ : “He’s (Ford) a nice fellow but he spent too much time playing football without a helmet.”
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http://www.jfklibrary.org/Asset-Viewer/Archives/JFKOH-GRF-01.aspx
Oral History Interview with GERALD R. FORD, July 8, 2003 Avon, Colorado by Vicki Daitch
FORD: I have a feeling, and I think others shared it, that he, Oswald, assassinated Kennedy because he was being prodded by his wife...
DAITCH: Really!?
FORD: ...on his impotence and so forth, and he had to do something to display his bravado. Now, that’s a theory.
DAITCH: That’s interesting.
Yes interesting.
Marina had just given birth to their second child, Audrey Marina Rachel Oswald, on October 20, 1963.
=============================================================================
LBJ : “He’s (Ford) a nice fellow but he spent too much time playing football without a helmet.”
Doubt he meant sexual impotence but rather 'not having the power or ability to change or improve a situation' as defined in the Cambridge Dictionary.
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Doubt he meant sexual impotence but rather 'not having the power or ability to change or improve a situation' as defined in the Cambridge Dictionary.
how do you know that?
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how do you know that?
I didn't say I knew that, I said I doubted that. The reason I doubt it is that the word impotent doesn't necessarily refer to sexual power but power in general.
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I didn't say I knew that, I said I doubted that. The reason I doubt it is that the word impotent doesn't necessarily refer to sexual power but power in general.
I aware of that and you said...
"rather 'not having the power or ability to change or improve"
you doubted one and preferred the other...I asked why
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I aware of that and you said...
"rather 'not having the power or ability to change or improve"
you doubted one and preferred the other...I asked why
No you didn't, you asked how I knew that. I explained why I doubted he meant that. Is this really worth arguing about?
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No you didn't, you asked how I knew that. I explained why I doubted he meant that. Is this really worth arguing about?
actually you didn't - you explained there are two meanings and you chose one. no reason why,
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actually you didn't - you explained there are two meanings and you chose one. no reason why,
I did. It's because that's what the word means.
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I did. It's because that's what the word means.
yet so, innocuous.
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Doubt he meant sexual impotence but rather 'not having the power or ability to change or improve a situation' as defined in the Cambridge Dictionary.
Maybe.
Blaming a nagging wife as the motivation for LHO's alleged assassination of JFK is on par with claiming the shooting was done, in world class time and accuracy, by a mediocre out of practice shooter with a worn, rusty, misaligned surplus WWII piece of junk $12 dollar rifle.
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None of the above.... I used my God given brain.....
And you've been sitting on it ever since
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Maybe.
Blaming a nagging wife as the motivation for LHO's alleged assassination of JFK is on par with claiming the shooting was done, in world class time and accuracy, by a mediocre out of practice shooter with a worn, rusty, misaligned surplus WWII piece of junk $12 dollar rifle.
One of many factors which led to the assasination maybe, but unlikely (I would think) to be the sole reason.
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One of many factors which led to the assasination maybe, but unlikely (I would think) to be the sole reason.
As you said, nobody here (in this thread) said that Marina's actions were the sole reason.
And nobody who knows anything about the actual shooting believes it was done in "world class time and accuracy." Oswald completely missed with his first shot; took between 6-8 seconds to fire the next two shots, and missed with his second. It took him three shots and, in my opinion, more than eight seconds to kill JFK.
Hardly world class shooting. If it was world class shooting JFK would have been "taken out" with the first shot.
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As you said, nobody here (in this thread) said that Marina's actions were the sole reason.
And nobody who knows anything about the actual shooting believes it was done in "world class time and accuracy." Oswald completely missed with his first shot; took between 6-8 seconds to fire the next two shots, and missed with his second. It took him three shots and, in my opinion, more than eight seconds to kill JFK.
Hardly world class shooting. If it was world class shooting JFK would have been "taken out" with the first shot.
Galbraith,
There was a total of about 11 seconds between the first and the third shots.
With more than five seconds between each shot (which required only 2.3 seconds max) and with the first shot's missing at 80 feet only because it hit the traffic light's cross arm, the assassination of JFK by a former sharpshooter/marksman Marine was an example of "world class shooting"?
Regarding that missed shot, how else are we to understand why the bullet smear on the chipped curb down by James Tague didn't have any copper in it except for the very real possibility that the bullet lost its copper jacket when it glanced off the arm of the traffic light?
LOL
-- MWT ;)
https://www.newsweek.com/2014/11/28/truth-behind-jfks-assassination-285653.html
Also --
On November 22, 2007, Max Holland and Johann Rush wrote in The New York Times:
[Amos Euins] told the Dallas County sheriff, “About the time the car got near the black and white sign, I heard a shot.” As the above photograph from a December 1963 restaging shows, the president’s limousine would have passed a black and white sign before Zapruder restarted his camera [at Z-133]. If one discards the notion that Zapruder recorded the shooting sequence in full, it has the virtue of solving several puzzles that have consistently defied explanation. The most exasperating one is how did Oswald, who was able to hit President Kennedy in his upper back at a distance of around 190 feet, and then in the head at a distance of 265 feet, manage to miss so badly on the first and closest shot? A first shot earlier than anyone has ever posited gives a plausible answer. About 1.4 seconds before Zapruder restarted filming ]at Z133], a horizontal traffic mast extending over Elm Street temporarily obscured Oswald’s view of his target. That mast was never examined during any of the official investigations. Yet if this mast deflected the first shot, that would surely explain why the bullet missed not only the president, but the whole limousine. Significantly, the highway sign cited by Amos Euins was just a few feet west of the traffic light’s vertical post in 1963. ...
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As you said, nobody here (in this thread) said that Marina's actions were the sole reason.
And nobody who knows anything about the actual shooting believes it was done in "world class time and accuracy." Oswald completely missed with his first shot; took between 6-8 seconds to fire the next two shots, and missed with his second. It took him three shots and, in my opinion, more than eight seconds to kill JFK.
Hardly world class shooting. If it was world class shooting JFK would have been "taken out" with the first shot.
"And nobody who knows anything about the actual shooting"
::)
"Craig Roberts was a former Marine sniper who later wrote a book on the JFK assassination called “Kill Zone.” Roberts visited the 6th floor window of the Texas School Book Depository and instantly realized that Oswald could not have performed the shooting feat because he knew that he himself could not. And he was a professional.
Roberts interviewed Sergeant Carlos Hathcock, the former senior instructor at the Marines Corps Sniper Instruction School at Quantico, Virginia. Roberts asked Hathcock if he thought Oswald could have done what the Warren Commission said he did. Hathcock said no.
Hathcock reconstructed the assassination at Quantico: the angle, moving target, time limit etc. he told Roberts, “I don’t know how many times we tried it, but we couldn’t duplicate what the Warren Commission said Oswald did.
Again, we are talking about professionals. Men who completely outclass Oswald in raw shooting ability. But further, these are professional assassins who practice their skills almost daily.”
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Galbraith,
There was a total of about 11 seconds between the first and the third shots.
With more than five seconds between each shot (which required only 2.3 seconds max) and with the first shot's missing at 80 feet only because it hit the traffic light's cross arm, the assassination of JFK by a former sharpshooter/marksman Marine was an example of "world class shooting"?
Regarding that missed shot, how else are we to understand why the bullet smear on the chipped curb down by James Tague didn't have any copper in it except for the very real possibility that the bullet lost its copper jacket when it glanced off the arm of the traffic light?
LOL
-- MWT ;)
https://www.newsweek.com/2014/11/28/truth-behind-jfks-assassination-285653.html
Also --
On November 22, 2007, Max Holland and Johann Rush wrote in The New York Times:
[Amos Euins] told the Dallas County sheriff, “About the time the car got near the black and white sign, I heard a shot.” As the above photograph from a December 1963 restaging shows, the president’s limousine would have passed a black and white sign before Zapruder restarted his camera [at Z-133]. If one discards the notion that Zapruder recorded the shooting sequence in full, it has the virtue of solving several puzzles that have consistently defied explanation. The most exasperating one is how did Oswald, who was able to hit President Kennedy in his upper back at a distance of around 190 feet, and then in the head at a distance of 265 feet, manage to miss so badly on the first and closest shot? A first shot earlier than anyone has ever posited gives a plausible answer. About 1.4 seconds before Zapruder restarted filming ]at Z133], a horizontal traffic mast extending over Elm Street temporarily obscured Oswald’s view of his target. That mast was never examined during any of the official investigations. Yet if this mast deflected the first shot, that would surely explain why the bullet missed not only the president, but the whole limousine. Significantly, the highway sign cited by Amos Euins was just a few feet west of the traffic light’s vertical post in 1963. ...
"There was a total of about 11 seconds between the first and the third shots."
:D
"Regarding that missed shot, how else are we to understand why the bullet smear on the chipped curb down by James Tague didn't have any copper in it except for the very real possibility that the bullet lost its copper jacket when it glanced off the arm of the traffic light?"
::)
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you have any idea which bullet might have made that mark?
Mr. TAGUE. I would guess it was either the second or third. I wouldn't say definitely on which one.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you hear any more shots after you felt yourself get hit in the face?
Mr. TAGUE. I believe I did.
Mr. LIEBELER. You think you did?
Mr. TAGUE. I believe I did.
Mr. LIEBELER. How many?
Mr. TAGUE. I believe that it was the second shot, so I heard the third shot afterwards.
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Sorry Tommy boy, the premise of your question is totally false. Oswald, as he clearly tried to tell reporters on multiple occasions, killed nobody. He was clearly set up as his movements in the months prior to the assassination clearly attest. But let's get to the crux of the issue. If we believe the total nonsense produced by the lone nut community, we will be suckered into exactly the trap JEdgar Hoover wanted us in. Anyone with evidence contrary to the impossible SBT was harassed, bullied and threatened by Specter, Belin and others. What about the Parkland and Bethesda witnesses testimony? Tommy are you one of the many ignoring the consistent reports of these vital witnesses? Can anyone produce evidence of a fatal head shot from behind? If Oswald killed JFK, wouldn't there be an exit wound on the FRONT of the president's body??? No such wound was seen by ANY witness. The EXIT hole on the BACK of JFK's head that the medical witnesses reported has not been widely publicized by the pathetic press. The history books should be burned if they buy into this SBT nonsense. Shame on you for fomenting this scientific impossibility...
Expecting a smug and irrelevant reply from Mr. Graves, officer of disinformation...
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"And nobody who knows anything about the actual shooting"
::)
"Craig Roberts was a former Marine sniper who later wrote a book on the JFK assassination called “Kill Zone.” Roberts visited the 6th floor window of the Texas School Book Depository and instantly realized that Oswald could not have performed the shooting feat because he knew that he himself could not. And he was a professional.
Roberts interviewed Sergeant Carlos Hathcock, the former senior instructor at the Marines Corps Sniper Instruction School at Quantico, Virginia. Roberts asked Hathcock if he thought Oswald could have done what the Warren Commission said he did. Hathcock said no.
Hathcock reconstructed the assassination at Quantico: the angle, moving target, time limit etc. he told Roberts, “I don’t know how many times we tried it, but we couldn’t duplicate what the Warren Commission said Oswald did.
Again, we are talking about professionals. Men who completely outclass Oswald in raw shooting ability. But further, these are professional assassins who practice their skills almost daily.”
Seems it's better to be lucky than good
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As you said, nobody here (in this thread) said that Marina's actions were the sole reason.
And nobody who knows anything about the actual shooting believes it was done in "world class time and accuracy." Oswald completely missed with his first shot; took between 6-8 seconds to fire the next two shots, and missed with his second. It took him three shots and, in my opinion, more than eight seconds to kill JFK.
Hardly world class shooting. If it was world class shooting JFK would have been "taken out" with the first shot.
'missed with his first shot'
'and missed with his second'
>Huh?
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"There was a total of about 11 seconds between the first and the third shots."
:D
"Regarding that missed shot, how else are we to understand why the bullet smear on the chipped curb down by James Tague didn't have any copper in it except for the very real possibility that the bullet lost its copper jacket when it glanced off the arm of the traffic light?"
::)
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you have any idea which bullet might have made that mark?
Mr. TAGUE. I would guess it was either the second or third. I wouldn't say definitely on which one.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you hear any more shots after you felt yourself get hit in the face?
Mr. TAGUE. I believe I did.
Mr. LIEBELER. You think you did?
Mr. TAGUE. I believe I did.
Mr. LIEBELER. How many?
Mr. TAGUE. I believe that it was the second shot, so I heard the third shot afterwards.
Your "rebuttals" are little laughing emoticons?
That's all you got?
LOL!
Btw, did you catch where Tague said, "I would guess" (once), "I wouldn't say definitely" (once), and "I believe" (three times)?
Under the circumstances (i.e., excitement/shock of the moment; reverberating echoes of: 1) the supersonic "cracks," and 2) the muzzleblasts) and with the passage of time, it's easy to see how he could guess wrong ...
-- MWT ;)
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Sorry Tommy boy, the premise of your question is totally false. Oswald, as he clearly tried to tell reporters on multiple occasions, killed nobody. He was clearly set up as his movements in the months prior to the assassination clearly attest. But let's get to the crux of the issue. If we believe the total nonsense produced by the lone nut community, we will be suckered into exactly the trap JEdgar Hoover wanted us in. Anyone with evidence contrary to the impossible SBT was harassed, bullied and threatened by Specter, Belin and others. What about the Parkland and Bethesda witnesses testimony? Tommy are you one of the many ignoring the consistent reports of these vital witnesses? Can anyone produce evidence of a fatal head shot from behind? If Oswald killed JFK, wouldn't there be an exit wound on the FRONT of the president's body??? No such wound was seen by ANY witness. The EXIT hole on the BACK of JFK's head that the medical witnesses reported has not been widely publicized by the pathetic press. The history books should be burned if they buy into this SBT nonsense. Shame on you for fomenting this scientific impossibility...
Expecting a smug and irrelevant reply from Mr. Graves, officer of disinformation...
Brunsman,
What's with the "Tommy boy" and "officer of disinformation" insults, punk?
-- MWT ;)
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"And nobody who knows anything about the actual shooting"
::)
"Craig Roberts was a former Marine sniper who later wrote a book on the JFK assassination called “Kill Zone.” Roberts visited the 6th floor window of the Texas School Book Depository and instantly realized that Oswald could not have performed the shooting feat because he knew that he himself could not. And he was a professional.
Roberts interviewed Sergeant Carlos Hathcock, the former senior instructor at the Marines Corps Sniper Instruction School at Quantico, Virginia. Roberts asked Hathcock if he thought Oswald could have done what the Warren Commission said he did. Hathcock said no.
Hathcock reconstructed the assassination at Quantico: the angle, moving target, time limit etc. he told Roberts, “I don’t know how many times we tried it, but we couldn’t duplicate what the Warren Commission said Oswald did.
Again, we are talking about professionals. Men who completely outclass Oswald in raw shooting ability. But further, these are professional assassins who practice their skills almost daily.”
Craig Roberts, the guy who evidently couldn't afford a proofreader, and who believes The Rothschilds were behind the assassination?
-- MWT ;)
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Seems like you treat others around here with the same kind of disrespect so I thought a little instant karma was appropriate. I don't see any answers to the questions I posed. How about some substance instead of nonsense???
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Seems like you treat others around here with the same kind of disrespect so I thought a little instant karma was appropriate. I don't see any answers to the questions I posed. How about some substance instead of nonsense???
James,
It's ironic that you invoke the name of J. Edgar Hoover in your rhetorical screed, the guy who (probably unwittingly) helped to destroy CIA Counterintelligence by his implausibly believing that Yuri Nosenko was a true defector, that Anatoliy Golitsyn was a false defector, that Aleksey Kulak (FEDORA) and Dimitri Polyakov (TOP HAT) were loyal-to-FBI double agents, and that KGB officer Valieriy Kostikov down in old Mexico was "Department 13," thereby enabling the planting of a WW III virus in Oswald's CIA file on 10/01/63 by the humanitarian organization known as the KGB.
Regarding the location and nature of the head wound, McAdams and the experts he cites have already answered your questions.
https://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/head.htm
-- MWT ;)
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(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/kennedy-faces.jpg)
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One of many factors which led to the assasination maybe, but unlikely (I would think) to be the sole reason.
So what are the other motivations you're hinting at?
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Your "rebuttals" are little laughing emoticons?
That's all you got?
LOL!
Btw, did you catch where Tague said, "I would guess" (once), "I wouldn't say definitely" (once), and "I believe" (three times)?
Under the circumstances (i.e., excitement/shock of the moment; reverberating echoes of: 1) the supersonic "cracks," and 2) the muzzleblasts) and with the passage of time, it's easy to see how he could guess wrong ...
-- MWT ;)
When you can be rebutted by "little laughing emoticons" it might be time to re-think what you're posting.
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When you can be rebutted by "little laughing emoticons" it might be time to re-think what you're posting.
Nice spin attempt.
I'm still breathlessly awaiting your rebuttals.
And you rebuttal to my reasoning on how Tague couldn't remember that it was the first shot that nicked him in that nightmarish concrete canyon of echoes and trauma.
-- MWT ;)
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Craig Roberts, the guy who evidently couldn't afford a proofreader, and who believes The Rothschilds were behind the assassination?
-- MWT ;)
Blah blah blah.
Have nothing to do with his experience/qualifications as a Marine Sniper.
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Blah blah blah.
Have nothing to do with his experience/qualifications as a Marine Sniper.
Nine-tenths of Robert's book is devoted to conspiracy theory.
Seems as though he might have had an agenda.
How much time does he give his boys and girls between the first and second shots? (Correct answer: about six seconds -- Oswald had to wait for the limo to reappear from behind the tree.)
How much time does he give his boys and girls after the second shot to make the kill shot? (Correct answer: about five seconds)
Factoid: In the Marine Corps, Oswald was a very good shot in all of the firing positions except for the "standing" one.
Which info is supplemented by an article I stumbled upon a few days ago:
https://www.kold.com/story/24047123/tucson-man-shares-vivid-memories-of-jfk-assassin-lee-harvey-oswald/
-- MWT ;)
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Nice spin attempt.
I'm still breathlessly awaiting your rebuttals.
And you rebuttal to my reasoning on how Tague couldn't remember that it was the first shot that nicked him in that nightmarish concrete canyon of echoes and trauma.
-- MWT ;)
Tague said he thought the second shot hit the curb and caused the scratch on his cheek.
He heard one more shot after feeling the sting.
You have a theory that a early shot, fired before Zapruder started filming, ricochet off a streetlight fixture before it hit the curb.
I'll take the witness who was there when the event happened. ;D
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Why did Oswald kill JFK?
I posit that the little prick was a true Marxist, that he was fed up with the American and Soviet systems, and that he decided to take matters in his own hands to "advance history".
-- MWT ;)
PS The fact that he wasn't getting any from Marina might have had something to do with it, too, as well as the possibility that he had been trained/programmed in the USSR to do the job ...
Interesting photo.
The caption should read, "I bet you guys didn't realize I was wearing handcuffs, huh?" -- OR -- "My CIA handler paid me extra to pose like this."
http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2009/01/bill-winfrey-dallas-morning-news.html?m=1
-- MWT Walk:
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Nine-tenths of Robert's book is devoted to conspiracy theory.
Seems as though he might have had an agenda.
How much time does he give his boys and girls between the first and second shots? (Correct answer: about six seconds -- Oswald had to wait for the limo to reappear from behind the tree.)
How much time does he give his boys and girls after the second shot to make the kill shot? (Correct answer: about five seconds)
Factoid: "In the Marine Corps, Oswald was a very good shot in all of the firing positions except for the "standing" one."
Which info is supplemented by an article I stumbled upon a few days ago:
https://www.kold.com/story/24047123/tucson-man-shares-vivid-memories-of-jfk-assassin-lee-harvey-oswald/
-- MWT ;)
"In the Marine Corps, Oswald was a very good shot in all of the firing positions except for the "standing" one."
In a letter from the commandant of the Marine Corps to the WC it's stated the Marines considered LHO a "rather poor shot" based on
his low score qualifying as a marksman. On 6May59 at MCAS El Toro, California he needed to score 190 to qualify a marksman.
He scored 191.
(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/anderson3.jpg)
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"In the Marine Corps, Oswald was a very good shot in all of the firing positions except for the "standing" one."
In a letter from the commandant of the Marine Corps to the WC it's stated the Marines considered LHO a "rather poor shot" based on
his low score qualifying as a marksman. On 6May59 at MCAS El Toro, California he needed to score 190 to qualify a marksman.
He scored 191.
(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/anderson3.jpg)
The Marine Corps in general considered Oswald kinda a "poor shot," or one possibly-out-of-touch, desk-bound officer decided to write that?
Had Oswald shot better than 191 in a previous shooting test? Was he nearing the end of his enlistment when he took the one you're harping about?
https://www.kold.com/story/24047123/tucson-man-shares-vivid-memories-of-jfk-assassin-lee-harvey-oswald/
-- MWT ;)
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Why did Oswald kill JFK?
I posit that the little prick was a true Marxist, that he was fed up with the American and Soviet systems, and that he decided to take matters in his own hands to "advance history".
-- MWT ;)
PS The fact that he wasn't getting any from Marina might have had something to do with it, too, as well as the possibility that he had been trained/programmed in the USSR to do the job ...
"PS The fact that he wasn't getting any from Marina might have had something to do with it, too"
I take it you don't have kids.
Marina just gave birth to there 2nd child October 20, 1963.
The standard minimum wait is 6 weeks if everything goes well during the delivery and mom/wife is emotionally ready.
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"PS The fact that he wasn't getting any from Marina might have had something to do with it, too"
I take it you don't have kids.
Marina just gave birth to there 2nd child October 20, 1963.
The standard minimum wait is 6 weeks if everything goes well during the delivery and mom/wife is emotionally ready.
Da, way too early to start indoctrinating them into Marxism, I suppose.
-- MWT ;)
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The Marine Corps in general considered Oswald kinda a "poor shot," or one possibly-out-of-touch, desk-bound officer decided to write that?
Had Oswald shot better than 191 in a previous shooting test? Was he nearing the end of his enlistment when he took the one you're harping about?
https://www.kold.com/story/24047123/tucson-man-shares-vivid-memories-of-jfk-assassin-lee-harvey-oswald/
-- MWT ;)
http://www.ctka.net/2008/bugliosi_review.html
A Comprehensive Review of Reclaiming History
By James DiEugenio
~snip~
"...As Nelson Delgado said, Oswald on the firing line was "a pretty big joke" because he got a lot of complete misses.
This is something that Delgado stated a good shot never did. (Warren Commission, Vol. 8 p. 235) Further, in the film
Rush to Judgment, Delgado told Mark Lane that Oswald just was not that interested in weaponry. He was always being
scored for not taking proper care of his rifle or cleaning it regularly.
Let's now turn to Sherman Cooley who was interviewed by author Henry Hurt for his book, Reasonable Doubt. Cooley, a
veteran hunter, was just as derisive as Delgado: "If I had to pick one man in the whole United States to shoot me,
I'd pick Oswald. I saw the man shoot. There's no way he could have ever learned to shoot well enough to do what they
accused him of doing in Dallas." ( (p. 99)
James Persons told Hurt about Oswald's below average coordination which he thought was the major factor in his very
poor marksmanship. (Michael Griffith web site, "Was Oswald a Poor Shot?", 8/27/96) Hurt, who interviewed dozens of
Oswald's fellow Marines, said that this eyewitness testimony was universal.
He stated it thusly, "On the subject of Oswald's shooting ability, there was virtually no exception to Delgado's
opinion that it was laughable."
Further on, Hurt brings up the consensus of the testimony: "Many of the Marines mentioned that Oswald had a certain lack
of coordination that they felt was responsible for the fact that he had difficulty learning to shoot." ( ibid, pgs 99-100)
Reinforcing this, when he was a member of a hunting club in Minsk, Russia Oswald's fellow members considered him a bad
marksman. This was reported by Richard Billings and Robert Blakey of the House Select Committee on Assassinations in their
book Fatal Hour. They stated simply that "Members of the club reported that Oswald had been considered a poor shot." (p. 139)
As Michael Griffith states on his web site, even Monty Lutz of the HSCA stated that he knew of no professional marksman who
had ever duplicated what Oswald was supposed to have done....."
~snip~
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"Was Oswald a Better Shot than the Commission's Experts ? The Warren Commission had three rifle experts test fire the Depository rifle in order to duplicate Oswald's perfomance. All three failed to do so.
In this video, Mark Lane interviews Sgt. Nelson Delgado, who served in the Marines with Lee Harvey Oswald. Sgt. Delgado describes Oswald's lack of shooting skill on the rifle range and how the FBI tried to pressure him to say Oswald was a good shot."
-
http://www.ctka.net/2008/bugliosi_review.html
A Comprehensive Review of Reclaiming History
By James DiEugenio
~snip~
"...As Nelson Delgado said, Oswald on the firing line was "a pretty big joke" because he got a lot of complete misses.
This is something that Delgado stated a good shot never did. (Warren Commission, Vol. 8 p. 235) Further, in the film
Rush to Judgment, Delgado told Mark Lane that Oswald just was not that interested in weaponry. He was always being
scored for not taking proper care of his rifle or cleaning it regularly.
Let's now turn to Sherman Cooley who was interviewed by author Henry Hurt for his book, Reasonable Doubt. Cooley, a
veteran hunter, was just as derisive as Delgado: "If I had to pick one man in the whole United States to shoot me,
I'd pick Oswald. I saw the man shoot. There's no way he could have ever learned to shoot well enough to do what they
accused him of doing in Dallas." ( (p. 99)
James Persons told Hurt about Oswald's below average coordination which he thought was the major factor in his very
poor marksmanship. (Michael Griffith web site, "Was Oswald a Poor Shot?", 8/27/96) Hurt, who interviewed dozens of
Oswald's fellow Marines, said that this eyewitness testimony was universal.
He stated it thusly, "On the subject of Oswald's shooting ability, there was virtually no exception to Delgado's
opinion that it was laughable."
Further on, Hurt brings up the consensus of the testimony: "Many of the Marines mentioned that Oswald had a certain lack
of coordination that they felt was responsible for the fact that he had difficulty learning to shoot." ( ibid, pgs 99-100)
Reinforcing this, when he was a member of a hunting club in Minsk, Russia Oswald's fellow members considered him a bad
marksman. This was reported by Richard Billings and Robert Blakey of the House Select Committee on Assassinations in their
book Fatal Hour. They stated simply that "Members of the club reported that Oswald had been considered a poor shot." (p. 139)
As Michael Griffith states on his web site, even Monty Lutz of the HSCA stated that he knew of no professional marksman who
had ever duplicated what Oswald was supposed to have done....."
~snip~
James DiEugenio, the de facto KGB-apologist, rabidly anti-CIA Tinfoil Hat Conspiracy Theorist who used to believe Greer turned around and shot JFK, and who still believes Alger Hiss was innocent?
The guy who picked his nose all the way through John Newman's March 2018 YouTube "Spy Wars" presentation and was so boorish he couldn't even bring himself to clap at the end?
The guy I didn't trust even back in the day when I was a CTer ... because he got so much stuff wrong?
LOL
Was Delgado "interviewed" by Mark "Paid By The CPUSA To Debunk The Warren Report" Lane, by any chance?
-- MWT ;)
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James DiEugenio, the de facto KGB-apologist, rabidly anti-CIA Tinfoil Hat Conspiracy Theorist who used to believe Greer turned around and shot JFK, and who still believes Alger Hiss was innocent?
The guy who picked his nose all the way through John Newman's March 2018 YouTube "Spy Wars" presentation and was so boorish he couldn't even bring himself to clap at the end?
The guy whom even back in the day when I was a CTer I didn't trust because he got so much stuff wrong?
LOL
Was Delgado "interviewed" by Mark "Paid By The CPUSA To Debunk The Warren Report" Lane, by any chance?
-- MWT ;)
???
Wow!
This conversation is over.
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Quoting McAdams only further damages your credibility. He is one of the biggest disinformation agents in the history of these forums. But I quickly perused the link you sent and it states this incredible bullspombleprofglidnoctobuns:
"The campaign has been to push Kennedy's head wound to the very back of his head, in occipital bone, in order to promote the idea of a shooter from the Grassy Knoll."
That's just a prevarication. What do the earliest witnesses say? Clint Hill, the doctors, the nurses, and everyone who actually saw the head wound, say it was in the right rear of the head. Due to the obfuscation of Hoover and Johnson, folks like Tommy buy into the total nonsensical SBT theories. That's your right. It's mine to counter such assertions because I believe this case is very important.
Also, what you wrote about Hoover is totally irrelevant to this discussion.
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???
Wow!
This conversation is over.
You're breaking my heart.
Wow
-- MWT ;)
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Quoting McAdams only further damages your credibility. He is one of the biggest disinformation agents in the history of these forums. But I quickly perused the link you sent and it states this incredible bullspombleprofglidnoctobuns:
"The campaign has been to push Kennedy's head wound to the very back of his head, in occipital bone, in order to promote the idea of a shooter from the Grassy Knoll."
That's just a prevarication. What do the earliest witnesses say? Clint Hill, the doctors, the nurses, and everyone who actually saw the head wound, say it was in the right rear of the head. Due to the obfuscation of Hoover and Johnson, folks like Tommy buy into the total nonsensical SBT theories. That's your right. It's mine to counter such assertions because I believe this case is very important.
Also, what you wrote about Hoover is totally irrelevant to this discussion.
James,
Calling John McAdams a "disinformation" agent is a desperate James "Jumbo Duh" DiEugenio tactic if I ever saw one.
Not everyone who causes you unbearable Cognitive Dissonance is a "disinformation agent".
Except for Putin's Saint Petersburg trolls, that is.
But then again, THEY probably tell you exactly what you want to hear, right?
-- MWT ;)
PS Every time you call me "Tommy boy", I'm gonna call you "Punk", okay James Punk?
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1. Going bald
2. Marriage falling apart
3. Stuck in a low-paying, dead-end job
4. Hated America and its institutions
5. Was a nobody who wanted to be a somebody
6. Supported Castro and the Cuban revolution
7. The guy who stared down Castro and the USSR was coming to town
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1. Going bald
2. Marriage falling apart
3. Stuck in a low-paying, dead-end job
4. Hated America and its institutions
5. Was a nobody who wanted to be a somebody
6. Supported Castro and the Cuban revolution
7. The guy who stared down Castro and the USSR was coming to town
Check, Check, Check, Check, Check, Check, ...
7) I got the "stared down Castro" bit -- The Cuban Missile Crisis. (It's kinda interesting that Castro was really pissed off at Khruschev afterwards. LOL)
But uhh ... What do you mean by "the USSR was coming to town"?
-- MWT ;)
PS I would add that, after living in the highly regimented, neighbors-spy-on-neighbors, consumer goods-lacking "Workers' Paradise" for 2.5 years, his last-chance dreams were broken, and by then he probably hated "hypocritical, corrupt" Soviet institutions and way of life, too, and that's why he decided to "speed-up/advance The Marxist-Leninist Dialectic" by killing JFK and getting "warmonger" LBJ into office.
It's all very Hegelian ...
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That would largely be my understanding, Oswaldovitch saw this as a way to contribute to the Revolution and he wanted Gus Hall as his lawyer?
He wanted John Abt not Gus Hall. Abt was a defense lawyer who had represented many Marxists accused of violating American laws.
Abt was an important member of the CPUSA, although he denied being a member at that time; and there's no evidence that I've seen that Oswald knew about his membership. Abt was also a key member in the late 1930s and 1940s of the so-called "Ware Group", a group of spies (some of them) for the Soviets. This was a major group working on behalf of Moscow. It was made famous by the claims made by Whittaker Chambers about Alger Hiss (among other things).
It's funny, though, that I think if Oswald knew that Abt was a member of the CPUSA he, Oswald, may not have wanted him to represent him. Oswald was very critical of the CPUSA - he wrote that it had betrayed Marxism for its slavish support for Moscow. So he may have viewed Abt more critically than he did.
Oswald was adamant about wanting Abt. Until he found out whether Abt would represent him, he didn't want anyone else. This is what Lou Nichols, the head of the Dallas Bar Association at the time, said Oswald told him. These claims that Oswald was denied a lawyer are simply false. He didn't WANT one until it was determined whether Abt would or could represent him. Turning away a lawyer who said he wanted to meet Oswald is NOT denying Oswald a lawyer since there is no evidence that Oswald wanted anyone other than Abt. Not at that time.
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He wanted John Abt not Gus Hall. Abt was a defense lawyer who had represented many Marxists accused of violating American laws.
Abt was an important member of the CPUSA although he denied it at the time and there's no evidence that I've seen that Oswald knew about his membership. Abt was also a key member in the late 1930s and 1940s of the so-called "Ware Group", a group of spies (some of them) for the Soviets. This was a major group working on behalf of Moscow. It was made famous for the claims made by Whittaker Chambers about Alger Hiss (among other things).
It's funny, though, that I think if Oswald knew that Abt was a member of the CPUSA he, Oswald, may not have wanted him to represent him. Oswald was very critical of the CPUSA - he wrote that it had betrayed Marxism for its slavish support for Moscow. So he may have viewed Abt more critically than he did.
Oswald was adamant about wanting Abt. Until he found out whether Abt would represent him, he didn't want anyone else. This is what Lou Nichols, the head of the Dallas Bar Association at the time, said Oswald told him. These claims that Oswald was denied a lawyer are simply false. He didn't WANT one until it was determined whether Abt would or could represent him. Turning away a lawyer who said he wanted to meet Oswald is NOT denying Oswald a lawyer since there is no evidence that Oswald wanted anyone other than Abt. Not at that time.
There are some parallel aspects to what happened to one of LHO’s heroes:
“August 30, 1918 Lenin visiting a factory outside Moscow. Fanta Kaplan, a woman who was working with a banned terrorist group, was standing in the crowd. She fired 3 shots directly at Lenin. Two bullets entered his body. One pierced his lung. The other one lodged in his neck. Taken back to the Kremlin, he appeared to be on the verge of death. His paranoia continued, he refused all medical treatment until a Bolshevik doctor could be found.”
And then (of course) there is this:
“But there is still doubt about who actually shot Lenin. Kaplan was near blind, she had never had any experience with firearms and it was near dark when the shooting happened. Despite signing a confession, many historians doubt she pulled the trigger.”
-
There are some parallel aspects to what happened to one of LHO’s heroes:
“August 30, 1918 Lenin visiting a factory outside Moscow. Fanta Kaplan, a woman who was working with a banned terrorist group, was standing in the crowd. She fired 3 shots directly at Lenin. Two bullets entered his body. One pierced his lung. The other one lodged in his neck. Taken back to the Kremlin, he appeared to be on the verge of death. His paranoia continued, he refused all medical treatment until a Bolshevik doctor could be found.”
And then (of course) there is this:
“But there is still doubt about who actually shot Lenin. Kaplan was near blind, she had never had any experience with firearms and it was near dark when the shooting happened. Despite signing a confession, many historians doubt she pulled the trigger.”
1) So Oswald wasn't so "lucky," after all. Just unlucky as all get-out that his first shot (about 1 second before Zapruder resumed filming at Z-133) grazed the "mast arm" of the traffic signal.
2) If it was Ms Kaplan, she sure had the right idea.
-- MWT ;)
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1) So Oswald wasn't so "lucky," after all. Just unlucky as all get-out that his first shot (about 1 second before Zapruder resumed filming at Z-133) grazed the "mast arm" of the traffic signal.
2) If it was Ms Kaplan, she sure had the right idea.
-- MWT ;)
In my opinion, LHO’s first shot was inadvertent due to either the rifle unexpectedly hitting the top Rolling Reader box, or his left arm hitting the conduit, (as he was tracking the moving target). And it hit the pavement near the back of the limousine.
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In my opinion, LHO’s first shot was inadvertent due to either the rifle unexpectedly hitting the top Rolling Reader box, or his left arm hitting the conduit, (as he was tracking the moving target). And it hit the pavement near the back of the limousine.
really? - I think he had a hole in one of his socks.
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really? - I think he had a hole in one of his socks.
This thread shows some of the research, by several different people, behind this theory. How did you research your hole in the sock theory??? ::)
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2090.0.html
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1. Going bald
2. Marriage falling apart
3. Stuck in a low-paying, dead-end job
4. Hated America and its institutions
5. Was a nobody who wanted to be a somebody
6. Supported Castro and the Cuban revolution
7. The guy who stared down Castro and the USSR was coming to town
5. "Everybody will know me now" -LHO
EDIT: May 28 3:46 EST
-
This thread shows some of the research, by several different people, behind this theory. How did you research your hole in the sock theory??? ::)
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2090.0.html
At least one shot he has to stand.
is that the first one - at about what z150ties?
the bullet hit behind the car - just after the turn?
densest part of the plaza. Is he shooting straight down?
How wide open is the window?
...and the gun jammed.
but wait
Willis heard a shot when he snapped his picture.
Betzner heard a shot as he wound his camera
Altgens heard a shot when he snapped his picture.
only some shots can be the same - A6 shows the men already hit
Willis said he heard a shot as he snapped W5
Car is just passed the window in the 150ties and LHO missed completely and nobody saw it?
and you said it was because of a box or a pipe?
...like a cartoon, you draw it any way you need to make it fit
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Mr. WILLIS. No, sir; I took that picture just seconds before the first shot was fired, to get back close up. Then I
started down the street, and the regular weekly edition of Life magazine came out and shows me in about three
different pictures going down the street. Then my next shot was taken at the very--in fact, the shot caused
me to squeeze the camera shutter, and I got a picture of the President as he was hit with the first shot. So
instantaneous, in fact, that the crowd hadn't had time to react.
(http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/willis%205%20arrow.jpg)
(http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/willis%205_1.jpg)
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At least one shot he has to stand.
is that the first one - at about what z150ties?
the bullet hit behind the car - just after the turn?
densest part of the plaza. Is he shooting straight down?
How wide open is the window?
...and the gun jammed.
but wait
Willis heard a shot when he snapped his picture.
Betzner heard a shot as he wound his camera
Altgens heard a shot when he snapped his picture.
some shots must be the same - A6 shows the men already hit
Willis said he heard a shot as he snapped W5
Car is just passed the window in the 150ties and LHO missed completely and nobody saw it?
and you said it was because of a box or a pipe?
...like a cartoon, you draw it any way you need to make it fit
Amos Euins and Patricia Ann Donaldson have both said in so many words that they heard the first shot as the limo was passing the pole with the black-and-white highway signs on the "island".
This corresponds with the moment that the limo passed under the traffic light's horizontal "mast arm" from a Sniper's Nest point of view.
At that point Zapruder hadn't yet resumed filming, although the limo was already 71 feet into Dealey Plaza.
Elsie Dorman said she immediately stopped filming when she heard the first shot. According to Dale K. Myers, Dorman stopped filming three times during the shooting sequence, and that the first time was 0.12 seconds before Zapruder resumed filming at Z-133, some 1.4 seconds after the first shot. This was right after the limo had passed under the traffic light's arm from the Sniper's Nest and Elsie Dorman's point of view in the TSBD.
-- MWT ;)
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Rosemary Willis stops and turns after the 1st shot.
video by Gerda Dunckel
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Rosemary Willis stops and turns after the 1st shot.
video by Gerda Dunckel
I believe she's on record as saying that the reason she stopped running was because her father had yelled out for her to come back.
-- MWT ;)
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I believe she's on record as saying that the reason she stopped running was because her father had yelled out for her to come back.
-- MWT ;)
You post you believe a lot of stuff that you never back up. So what?
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You post you believe a lot of stuff that you never back up. So what?
Craig,
Can you provide us with a quote in which she says she stopped running when she heard the first shot ... or is that just something that you'd really, really, really like to believe?
-- MWT ;)
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Mr. LIEBELER - Did you follow the car down Elm Street after you took the picture, which we have marked Hudson Exhibit No. 1?
Mr. WLLIS - I proceeded down the street and didn't take any other pictures instantly, because the three shots were fired approximately about 2 seconds apart, and I knew my little daughters were running along beside the Presidential car, and I was immediately concerned about them, and I was screaming for them to come back, and they didn't hear me. But I was concerned about them immediately, because I knew something tragic had happened, and the shots didn't ring out long like a rifle shot that is fired into midair in a distance. I knew it hit something, and it couldn't have been a firecracker or anything like that, so it impressed me, I remember, and after I found my daughters, I saw they were heading back toward their mother.
-
(https://i.vgy.me/ApTdJS.gif)
(http://www.dufourlaw.com/JFK/RosemaryW_z200-207.gif)
(http://www.dufourlaw.com/JFK/z202_z206_RWillis.gif)
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Craig,
Can you provide us with a quote in which she says she stopped running when she heard the first shot ... or is that just something that you'd really, really, really like to believe?
-- MWT ;)
Didn't she say it in the David Lui article "The Little Girl Must Have Heard" The Dallas Times Herald, June 3rd 1979?
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Notice that Rosemary doesn't stop running until Z190 or so.
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Notice that Rosemary doesn't stop running until Z190 or so.
Some Tinfoil Hat Conspiracy Theorists believe the first shot missed at Z-160, or so.
Did Rosemary Willis continue running for a full second after hearing "that", or until she heard her father screaming at her and her sister to come back?
-- MWT ;)
-
Some Tinfoil Hat Conspiracy Theorists believe the first shot missed at Z-160, or so.
Did Rosemary Willis continue running for a full second after hearing "that", or until she heard her father screaming at her and her sister to come back?
-- MWT ;)
"Did Rosemary Willis continue running for a full second after hearing "that"
Rosemary told David Lui of the Dallas Time-Herald that she stopped when she heard the 1st shot.
"Around Zapruder frame 160-165, ten-year-old Rosemary Willis, who has been running on the grass alongside the
President's limousine, begins to slow down; by frame 190 she has come to a complete halt. "I stopped when I
heard the shot," she says.(3) "In that first split second, I thought it was a firecracker. But within maybe
one-tenth of a second, I knew it was a gun shot."(4)
3. David Lui, "The Little Girl Must Have Heard," Dallas Time-Herald, June 3, 1979, cited in Gerald Posner,
Case Closed (New York: Random House, 1993), p. 321
4. Marcia Smith-Durk interview with Rosemary Willis, 1979, cited in Posner, p. 321.
"or until she heard her father screaming at her and her sister to come back?"
Her father said he yelled at both of his daughters after he heard the shots but told the WC they didn't hear him.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you follow the car down Elm Street after you took the picture, which we have marked Hudson Exhibit No. 1?
Mr. WLLIS - I proceeded down the street and didn't take any other pictures instantly, because the three shots were fired approximately about 2 seconds apart, and I knew my little daughters were running along beside the Presidential car, and I was immediately concerned about them, and I was screaming for them to come back, and they didn't hear me. But I was concerned about them immediately, because I knew something tragic had happened, and the shots didn't ring out long like a rifle shot that is fired into midair in a distance. I knew it hit something, and it couldn't have been a firecracker or anything like that, so it impressed me, I remember, and after I found my daughters, I saw they were heading back toward their mother.
(https://i.vgy.me/ApTdJS.gif)
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"Did Rosemary Willis continue running for a full second after hearing "that"
Rosemary told David Lui of the Dallas Time-Herald that she stopped when she heard the 1st shot.
"Around Zapruder frame 160-165, ten-year-old Rosemary Willis, who has been running on the grass alongside the President's limousine, begins to slow down; by frame 190 she has come to a complete halt. "I stopped when I heard the shot," she says.(3) "In that first split second, I thought it was a firecracker. But within maybe one-tenth of a second, I knew it was a gun shot."(4)
3. David Lui, "The Little Girl Must Have Heard," Dallas Time-Herald, June 3, 1979, cited in Gerald Posner,
Case Closed (New York: Random House, 1993), p. 321
4. Marcia Smith-Durk interview with Rosemary Willis, 1979, cited in Posner, p. 321.
"or until she heard her father screaming at her and her sister to come back?"
Her father said he yelled at both of his daughters after he heard the shots but told the WC they didn't hear him.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you follow the car down Elm Street after you took the picture, which we have marked Hudson Exhibit No. 1?
Mr. WLLIS - I proceeded down the street and didn't take any other pictures instantly, because the three shots were fired approximately about 2 seconds apart, and I knew my little daughters were running along beside the Presidential car, and I was immediately concerned about them, and I was screaming for them to come back, and they didn't hear me. But I was concerned about them immediately, because I knew something tragic had happened, and the shots didn't ring out long like a rifle shot that is fired into midair in a distance. I knew it hit something, and it couldn't have been a firecracker or anything like that, so it impressed me, I remember, and after I found my daughters, I saw they were heading back toward their mother.
By this account, it's apparent that she, like many of the other motorcade witnesses, either didn't hear or didn't remember hearing the first shot, i.e., the shot the assassin fired from The Sixth Floor Window about 1.4 seconds before Zapruder resumed filming -- after a seven-second hiatus -- at Z-133.
-- MWT ;)
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By this account, it's apparent that she, like many of the other motorcade witnesses, didn't hear, or didn't remember hearing, the first shot, about 1.4 seconds before Zapruder resumed filming (after a seven-second hiatus) at Z-133.
-- MWT ;)
That's what some tin foil hat LN kooks believe.
However back on earth.
We have a photo Phil Willis took when he clicked the shutter on his camera at the same instant he was startled by the 1st shot.
We have film of Rosemary Willis stopping at about Z-190 and looking immediately back towards the TSBD.
She said she stopped when she heard the first shot.
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i.p.o
That's what some tin foil hat LN kooks believe.
However back on earth.
We have a photo Phil Willis took when he clicked the shutter on his camera at the same instant he was startled by the 1st shot.
We have film of Rosemary Willis stopping at about Z-190 and looking immediately back towards the TSBD.
She said she stopped when she heard the first shot.
Lots of "researchers" over the years, and even some of the witnesses who were there on 11/22, have confused a mysto "whenevershot" and/or the real-deal second shot (CE-399) for the first shot.
The acoustics of the echo chamber known as Dealey Plaza, and the fact that Abraham Zapruder filmed only the second and third shots, contributed mightily to this CTer's Wet Dream Of A Malleable Alternative Fact, unfortunately.
-- MWT ;)
PS "Tinfoil Hat LN Kooks" ?
LOL
Don't Lone Nutters "keep it simple," whereas the definition of a Tinfoil Hat-Wearing anybody, in the socio-economic-political realm at least, is someone who constructs elaborate, layer-upon-layer of Multi-Dimentional Conceptual Art out of un-fact-checked contraptions, gizmos, artifices and "working theories" which tend to portray life's predicaments as way more complicated, way more controlled, and way more sinister than the way life really is and situations really are in order to ... gasp ... "justify" their own paranoia and self-righteous "victimhood" by ... Yes! ... convincing other gullibles of same?
Isn't the fact that a self-proclaimed Marxist loser murdered JFK in order to "Speed Up The Dialectic" bad enough, especially since his actions ironically (i.e., perversely) gave birth to oodles and gobs of anti-CIA / anti-FBI tinfoil hat conspiracy theories which, with midwifing help by people like Joachim "Commie" Joesten, Mark "Paid by the KGB to 'Debunk' the Warren Report" Lane, Jim "Gullible" Garrison, and Oliver " I LOVE Making Money, I TRUST Vladimir Putin (Because I Pray He's Gonna Give Me Some New Money-Making Material), and My Son? ... Well, My SON Works for RT" Stone, et al., initiated the dumbing-down and making apathetic our body politic to such an extent that it paved the way for the FASCISTIC MAFIA formerly called the KGB/GRU to install fascistic, corrupt and oh yes compromised "useful idiot" Donald "I Make Fun Of Handicapped Journalists", etc, etc, etc, Trump as our president?
Get real, Neo. / Wake up, dude. The ...
... Oops, there's that deja vu thing again.
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5. "They'll remember me now" -LHO
where did he say that?
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where did he say that?
In nut country
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In nut country
You are completely unreliable on any facts.
Thumb1: You make sh*t up. got it.
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You are completely unreliable on any facts.
Thumb1: You make sh*t up. got it.
4:45 - 6:30 P.M. Second Interrogation of Oswald, Captain Fritz's Office
Excerpt:
"Everybody will know who I am now." - Oswald
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4:45 - 6:30 P.M. Second Interrogation of Oswald, Captain Fritz's Office
Excerpt:
"Everybody will know who I am now." - Oswald
Any idea how he said this?
Boastfully?
Pridefully?
With regret and/or resignation?
-- MWT ;)
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4:45 - 6:30 P.M. Second Interrogation of Oswald, Captain Fritz's Office
Excerpt:
"Everybody will know who I am now." - Oswald
Note that's very different from the originally claimed "They'll remember me now". Note also that this isn't even a direct quote, despite the quotation marks. It comes from Roger Craig's testimony. But I thought WC apologists didn't believe that Roger Craig was ever actually in Fritz's office.
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Note that's very different from the originally claimed "They'll remember me now". Note also that this isn't even a direct quote, despite the quotation marks. It comes from Roger Craig's testimony. But I thought WC apologists didn't believe that Roger Craig was ever actually in Fritz's office.
Note reply #70 where I edited in the exact wording a day ago.
I got the quote from an Oswald supporter.
Bottom line: They'll remember me now = Everybody will know me now = a nobody wanting to be a somebody
Roger Craig claims he heard Oswald directly
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Note reply #70 where I edited in the exact wording a day ago.
I got the quote from an Oswald supporter.
Bottom line: They'll remember me now = Everybody will know me now = a nobody wanting to be a somebody
you can't even get your corrections right. too funny.
[corrected for Chapman - but he still hasn't got it ]
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you can even get your corrections right. too funny.
you can even get your corrections right
> Yeah, I know: See below
Bottom line: They'll remember me now = Everybody will know me now = Everybody will know who I am now = a nobody wanting to be a somebody
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you can even get your corrections right
> Yeah, I know: See below
Bottom line: They'll remember me now = Everybody will know me now = Everybody will know who I am now = a nobody wanting to be a somebody
I made a typo - you missed the meaning
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I made a typo - you missed the meaning
You missed my sarcasm re your typo
And continue to avoid the fact that Oswald needed to be a somebody
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You missed my sarcasm re your typo
And continue to avoid the fact that Oswald needed to be a somebody
"A working class hero is something to be."
-- MWT ;)
PS Backin' the USSR