JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: David Monaghan on January 31, 2020, 02:06:10 AM
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Too many threads get derailed by bickering and mudslinging, hopefully keep this on topic as i'd be interested in others thoughts.
Whether your a LN or CT what piece of evidence or turn of events has / had you questioning your stance? As a CT it's always concerned me that LHO interested in politics wouldn't show any interest in the president driving bye or make the effort to go watch the parade? I do believe he was manning the lifts assisting in what he believed was a possible mock attempt to drum up a Castro invasion.
Lets keep it on topic eh?
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Too many threads get derailed by bickering and mudslinging, hopefully keep this on topic as i'd be interested in others thoughts.
Whether your a LN or CT what piece of evidence or turn of events has / had you questioning your stance? As a CT it's always concerned me that LHO interested in politics wouldn't show any interest in the president driving bye or make the effort to go watch the parade? I do believe he was manning the lifts assisting in what he believed was a possible mock attempt to drum up a Castro invasion.
Lets keep it on topic eh?
Hey, David. There's a few people here who share that mock attempt so Cuba could be invaded but when Oswald was
holding the bag, so to speak, in my opinion he'd be screaming his head off. To me it would make more sense
that there was a real attempt by a group and Oswald was caught (with others) but everything had to be bent so it
would look like he acted alone.
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Too many threads get derailed by bickering and mudslinging, hopefully keep this on topic as i'd be interested in others thoughts.
Whether your a LN or CT what piece of evidence or turn of events has / had you questioning your stance? As a CT it's always concerned me that LHO interested in politics wouldn't show any interest in the president driving bye or make the effort to go watch the parade? I do believe he was manning the lifts assisting in what he believed was a possible mock attempt to drum up a Castro invasion.
Lets keep it on topic eh?
Gawking at a motorcade is not “politics”.
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Gawking at a motorcade is not “politics”.
That's right.
Oswald eschewed viewing the silly, silly, silly, silly, silly, silly motorcade, and opted, instead, to eat his workin' class hero cheese sandwich, and to re-read, yet again, Das Kapital.
-- MWT ;)
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Gawking at a motorcade is not “politics”.
John he had a keen interest in politics no ? The most powerful politician in the world is travelling by his place of work ( during his lunchbreak) and he's not remotely interested in grabbing his cheese sandwich and grabbing a spot outside no?
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John he had a keen interest in politics no ? The most powerful politician in the world is travelling by his place of work ( during his lunchroom) and he's not remotely interested in grabbing his cheese sandwich and grabbing a spot outside no?
Apparently not.
Not sure what if anything that proves.
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Apparently not.
Not sure what if anything that proves.
Proves while 95% off his coworkers were out watching the president a fella interested in world affairs appeared fairly uninterested, simply stating i personally find it strange?
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Oswald was watching the motorcade from the front steps while in disguise as Billy Lovelady.
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Gawking at a motorcade is not “politics”.
Exactly!
That’s why he was on the sixth floor shooting at the most dangerous adversary and threat to Castro’s revolution In Cuba! ... Now, THAT’S politics, LHO style!!!
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Too many threads get derailed by bickering and mudslinging, hopefully keep this on topic as i'd be interested in others thoughts.
Whether your a LN or CT what piece of evidence or turn of events has / had you questioning your stance? As a CT it's always concerned me that LHO interested in politics wouldn't show any interest in the president driving bye or make the effort to go watch the parade? I do believe he was manning the lifts assisting in what he believed was a possible mock attempt to drum up a Castro invasion.
Lets keep it on topic eh?
I always assumed it was a conspiracy until I started reading about it really.
On that note, one of the things thaat at least points to Oswald being the shooter or at the very least part of a plot was - as you say someone interested (obsessed) with politics - just leaving fore the day after the president is assassinated outside the building he worked in. Kind of shrug of the shoulders and may as well go to the cinema kind of thing.
Nah.
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Too many threads get derailed by bickering and mudslinging, hopefully keep this on topic as i'd be interested in others thoughts.
Whether your a LN or CT what piece of evidence or turn of events has / had you questioning your stance? As a CT it's always concerned me that LHO interested in politics wouldn't show any interest in the president driving bye or make the effort to go watch the parade? I do believe he was manning the lifts assisting in what he believed was a possible mock attempt to drum up a Castro invasion.
Lets keep it on topic eh?
The most significant question in my mind at this point in time is whether or not Castro or his intelligence assets encouraged LHO and/or knew that LHO was likely to take a shot at JFK.
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Too many threads get derailed by bickering and mudslinging, hopefully keep this on topic as i'd be interested in others thoughts.
Whether your a LN or CT what piece of evidence or turn of events has / had you questioning your stance? As a CT it's always concerned me that LHO interested in politics wouldn't show any interest in the president driving bye or make the effort to go watch the parade? I do believe he was manning the lifts assisting in what he believed was a possible mock attempt to drum up a Castro invasion.
Lets keep it on topic eh?
-David-
It is not so much a piece of evidence that makes me question the Government's conclusions as laid down in the Warren Report, but rather the methodology used to arrive at those conclusions. It is clear that the Report contains omissions, misrepresentations and blatant untruths. The FBI, the Commission's main investigative body, altered witness statements and falsified reports. The Commission chose to believe testimony given by questionable witnesses, and ignored or labeled as mistaken witnesses who gave statements at odds with the Commission's theories.
All this leads me to conclude there is something more to the assassination than the odd Oswald and his ancient rifle.
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I always assumed it was a conspiracy until I started reading about it really.
On that note, one of the things thaat at least points to Oswald being the shooter or at the very least part of a plot was - as you say someone interested (obsessed) with politics - just leaving fore the day after the president is assassinated outside the building he worked in. Kind of shrug of the shoulders and may as well go to the cinema kind of thing.
Nah.
Exactly. As noted above, Oswald was a political person. He read radical political publications (even though he had almost no money; that CIA paycheck kept getting lost in the mail), he defected to the USSR, agitated for Castro, joined the FPCC, read biographies on political persons. The only interest he had was politics.
So the president is perhaps shot right outside the building he worked (never mind about him showing no interest - none - in seeing the president) and he just leaves? He's told (but wasn't) he could have the rest of the day off? Because of the shooting? . A shooting he never inquires about? Is the president dead? Did they catch the shooter? Was it a Walker supporter? What happened?
The evidence is that after the shooting he showed no interest at all in what happened to the president. None.
If one doesn't find that strange - and evidence of some role - then one is either very ignorant or very disingenuous. And some Oswald apologists (see above), are both.
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Exactly!
That’s why he was on the sixth floor shooting at the most dangerous adversary and threat to Castro’s revolution In Cuba! ... Now, THAT’S politics, LHO style!!!
Easy to claim. Harder to prove.
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The evidence is that after the shooting he showed no interest at all in what happened to the president. None.
The leap here is assuming that "showing interest" involves talking to people about it. Oswald was a loner. It's not even clear that Oswald knew that the president had been shot at this time.
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Exactly. As noted above, Oswald was a political person. He read radical political publications (even though he had almost no money; that CIA paycheck kept getting lost in the mail), he defected to the USSR, agitated for Castro, joined the FPCC, read biographies on political persons. The only interest he had was politics.
So the president is perhaps shot right outside the building he worked (never mind about him showing no interest - none - in seeing the president) and he just leaves? He's told (but wasn't) he could have the rest of the day off? Because of the shooting? A shooting he never inquires about? Is the president dead? Did they catch the shooter? Was it a Walker supporter? What happened?
The evidence is that after the shooting he showed no interest at all in what happened to the president. None.
If one doesn't find that strange - and evidence of some role - then one is either very ignorant or very disingenuous. And some Oswald apologists (see above), are both.
I would find it strange if the little prick had all-of-a-sudden undergone a massive personality change and actually became talkative, engaged, and friendly.
And he already knew more than anyone else anyway.
;)
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Getting back to the question in the OP, I'm not a "conspiracy theorist" because I don't have a conspiracy theory. My position is that there is not sufficient evidence to determine beyond a reasonable doubt who shot JFK. What little physical evidence there is, is weak, circumstantial, and tainted in some way. Therefore the case for Oswald has to rely on rhetorical arguments like "he didn't show any interest in the motorcade".
What would it take to question my stance? Better evidence.
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I would find it strange if the little prick had all-of-a-sudden undergone a massive personality change and actually became talkative, engaged, and friendly.
And he already knew more than anyone else anyway.
;)
Right, I know you're being "provocative" <g> but back to my point: he apparently showed no interest in the events? He didn't stay around the TSBD and watch what was happening? Listen to people? He just leaves within, reportedly, about three minutes?
Mrs. Robert Reid, an office worker in the building, said she went back into the building after hearing the shots. She testified that she saw Oswald walking in the second floor and said to him (para), "The president was shot; but maybe they missed.."
He, according to her, mumbled something she couldn't understand and kept walking.
Is that what you'd do? Not me. I'd ask if she knew anything more about it.
Oswald was a deeply politically engaged person. Piper and Dougherty were, based on what we know, not those types. They were, from what they said about themselves, simple workers trying to scratch out a living. Completely different types of people than Oswald.
Anyone who finds their behavior curious but not Oswald's is believing in some very odd things.
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He, according to her, mumbled something she couldn't understand and kept walking.
Is that what you'd do? Not me. I'd ask if she knew anything more about it.
If she couldn't make out what he was saying then how do you know he could make out what she was saying?
Oswald was a deeply politically engaged person. Piper and Dougherty were, based on what we know, not those types.
What do "we" know one way or the other about Piper and Dougherty's political interests?
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If she couldn't make out what he was saying then how do you know he could make out what she was saying?
What do "we" know one way or the other about Piper and Dougherty's political interests?
Whatever it is that we think we know is for the biggest part coming from one main source and for us simple folk there's hardly any way of checking the veracity of what we have been told. Sure, here or there we can find some contradictions, perhaps even some evidence of shenanigans, but it doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of the real story, whatever that may be....
Right, I know you're being "provocative" <g> but back to my point: he apparently showed no interest in the events? He didn't stay around the TSBD and watch what was happening? Listen to people? He just leaves within, reportedly, about three minutes?
Mrs. Robert Reid, an office worker in the building, said she went back into the building after hearing the shots. She testified that she saw Oswald walking in the second floor and said to him (para), "The president was shot; but maybe they missed.."
He, according to her, mumbled something she couldn't understand and kept walking.
Is that what you'd do? Not me. I'd ask if she knew anything more about it.
Oswald was a deeply politically engaged person. Piper and Dougherty were, based on what we know, not those types. They were, from what they said about themselves, simple workers trying to scratch out a living. Completely different types of people than Oswald.
Anyone who finds their behavior curious but not Oswald's is believing in some very odd things.
He just leaves within, reportedly, about three minutes?
The operative word here is "reportedly". The truth is that we don't know when exactly Oswald left the building and how. All we really know for sure is that he was arrested at the Texas Theater a little over an hour after the murder. Everything else in between... the entire narative is just a story
Anyone who finds their behavior curious but not Oswald's is believing in some very odd things.
I do not necessarily disagree with you, but I have found time after time that what one person finds strange another finds normal. You can not really go by what you would have done in that situation and then make a judgement call about what Oswald is alleged to have done.
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Right, I know you're being "provocative" <g> but back to my point: he apparently showed no interest in the events? He didn't stay around the TSBD and watch what was happening? Listen to people? He just leaves within, reportedly, about three minutes?
Mrs. Robert Reid, an office worker in the building, said she went back into the building after hearing the shots. She testified that she saw Oswald walking in the second floor and said to him (para), "The president was shot; but maybe they missed.."
He, according to her, mumbled something she couldn't understand and kept walking.
Is that what you'd do? Not me. I'd ask if she knew anything more about it.
Oswald was a deeply politically engaged person. Piper and Dougherty were, based on what we know, not those types. They were, from what they said about themselves, simple workers trying to scratch out a living. Completely different types of people than Oswald.
Anyone who finds their behavior curious but not Oswald's is believing in some very odd things.
It matters not one iota as to what you, myself or anyone else on the planet 'would do' in someone else's place. At any rate, Reid stated that she wasn't really listening to what Oswald mumbled because he looked calm and it apparently didn't cross her mind at all that he had anything to do with the shooting. Yes, he kept walking.. but so did she.
I would be surprised if Oswald would have suddenly become a chatterbox:
Mr. BELIN. Mrs. Reid, since the tragedy of November 22, have there been any discussions that you have heard among any employees which might relate to the character insofar as the Personal habits or what-have-you of Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mrs. REID. The only thing I have heard anybody say was he never talked to anybody, he always went about his business*, that is the only thing I heard the employees say.
Mr. BELIN. Did you ever hear anyone say that he might have been friendly with at least one other employee?
Mrs. REID. No; I have not.
*Going about his business at that particular time apparently prioritized hitting the road over engaging in idle chit-chat with staff members.
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I always assumed it was a conspiracy until I started reading about it really.
On that note, one of the things thaat at least points to Oswald being the shooter or at the very least part of a plot was - as you say someone interested (obsessed) with politics - just leaving fore the day after the president is assassinated outside the building he worked in. Kind of shrug of the shoulders and may as well go to the cinema kind of thing.
Nah.
If you were honest with yourself, you'd admit that you became confused and simply decided the easiest way was to accept the fairy tale created by LBJ's Special Blue Ribbon Committee
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So Mr Monahan accepts Lee Oswald's word that Lee was inside the TSBD at the time that JFK was ambushed and murdered ......Perhaps he's unaware that Lee didn't simply say that he was in the TSBD.....He specified that he was in the 1st floor lunchroom at the time the president passed by the TSBD.
It's Monaghan thanks. Pointless response as regardless he wasn't outside. 1,2,3,4,5th,floor who cares, my point is ( from a CT) If he wasn't involved and knew of an impending plot which could potentially be traced or blamed on him i'm pretty sure i'd have been making a point of being noticed by co workers during this shooting.
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The operative word here is "reportedly". The truth is that we don't know when exactly Oswald left the building and how. All we really know for sure is that he was arrested at the Texas Theater a little over an hour after the murder. Everything else in between... the entire narative is just a story
Bus transfer, landlady saw him, taxi driver. Are we ignoring this evidence now?
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Proves while 95% off his coworkers were out watching the president a fella interested in world affairs appeared fairly uninterested, simply stating i personally find it strange?
Monaghan,
Don't you realize the evil, evil, evil CIA gave poor widdle Oswald a fake assignment -- to guard the candy machine in the Second Floor dining room from 12:20, on, so he could be encountered there by evil, evil Marion Baker and evil, evil Roy Truly about 90 seconds after the assassination, and later charged with The Crime Of The Century?
LOL
-- MWT ;)
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It's Monaghan thanks. Pointless response as regardless he wasn't outside. 1,2,3,4,5th,floor who cares, my point is ( from a CT) If he wasn't involved and knew of an impending plot which could potentially be traced or blamed on him i'm pretty sure i'd have been making a point of being noticed by co workers during this shooting.
Not if you wanted to convince Castro's agents that you had "ATTEMPTED" to shoot JFK........You would not have wanted anybody who could say...."He never attempted to shoot JFK, Because I saw him in the toilet at the time That he supposed was taking a shot at JFK"
( This is the reason that Lee saw Jarman and Norman enter the 1st floor at 12:27, but they never saw him.....He didn't want them to see him.)
Nor would you want a photo taken, that showed you poking your head out of the door of the TSBD at the time that you want Castro's agents to believe that you had attempted to shoot Castro's arch foe.