JFK Assassination Forum

 

  There is No comparison to how someone chooses to sit on a BENCH SEAT vs the restrictions of a BUCKET SEAT/Jump Seat. It's like sitting anywhere inside a Caddy vs a Mustang front bucket seat. JFK had plenty of Lateral space options to use and therefore shift his sitting position. The back brace JFK was wearing also may have resulted in his altering his seated position. Wearing a back brace while in a seated position for an extended time period is very uncomfortable. And NOBODY knows the exact seated position of JFK at the moment the bullet entered his BACK.

 

hi Martin you ask an interesting and valid question . lets see what our LN friends come up with .

on a similar but slightly different note i once saw a SBT recreation . it was later on youtube and i pointed out something on there that a lot had not noticed , but they took note after that . i watched the program originally on tv , sorry i am at a loss to remember the program name , but as i said it was on youtube , and may still be or atleast the segment i am now speaking about .

but they set up a snipers perch , correct height , angle , distance to replicate the trajectory from the 6th floor window as per the WC . they then recreated the limo (stationary ) with gel mouids to replicate JFK and JBC . they fired a shot . then they went and examined the moulds . there was a hole on the rear of the jfk mould pretty much i think spot on with the actual wound location on JFKs back .then they said lets look at the other exits and entry points on both moulds . they did so and proclaimed that they had replicated the SBT .but i noted something odd and it bothered me . fater looking at JFKs back entry they then showed JBC back entry etc . i waited and waited to see what they did not show , which bothered me ., they did not show it . at the very end of the program with a minute or less remaining they had the presenter speaking in a room and i noted that they had the JFK gel mould in the background . they never drew attention to it .

but what it showed was clear , and on youtube one can of course pause and view it .so what did it show ? well it showed us why THEY DECIDED NOT TO SHOW US the front of the JFK gel mould in the program . while the bullet entered the back pretty accurate location wise , on the front the bullet exited NOT CENTRAL below the adams apple , but ON THE UPPER LEFT SIDE OF THE CHEST . remember they set up the height , angle , distance etc for a correct trajectory . now we know JFK had no exit on the left of his chest however in this program they still had a bullet pass through the jfk mould . so how is that possible ? just how far to the left did they have to place the JBC mould in order to get a bullet exiting the upper left of the JFK moulds chest to strike the JBC mould near the right arm pit ? . and they got away with this on tv lol .sorry now if i have gone a bit off topic but it is SBT related and i think sort of highlights the problem in recreating (attempting to lol ) the SBT .if anyone knows the program i mention id love to have the name , thanks .

Back in January of 2023 I took Jack Trojan’s dual laser challenge and proved that the entrance and exit wounds do actually occur in the proper places. If you search for my posts from that time period, you can find photos and discussion of this test. The  video you are referring to is on YouTube. Search for JFK assassination magic bullet test. If the exit wound on JFK is where you think it is, I think it is due to the shot missing the entrance mark a little bit to the JFK’s left and they have the JFK model sitting too erect.

Quote from: Fergus O'brien on May 13, 2024, 02:14:32 PM

    Quote from: Fergus O'brien on May 10, 2024, 08:45:33 PM


    so i wrote highlighting that Fritz was less than honest and asking a valid question , which was why should we then by default trust every word of such people . in essence they have given us reason , good reason to doubt their honesty , so then is it not and SHOULD IT NOT BE a valid concern of any person as to whether such person/s warrant our distrust ? .  and then i get the above reply stating that FRITZ WAS PARTY TO A CONSPIRACY TO FRAME OSWALD FOR JFKS MURDER . and LN wonder why i might question their intellect ? , i rest my case . i guess LN just find it easier to talk nonsense than to have to talk about such things as the honesty or lack their of of one of their own witnesses ." fergus obrien


"By "less than honest" you claimed he lied about what the suspect said in a homicide investigation.  Not just any homicide investigation but the assassination of the president.  Why would he do this in your fantasy except to frame Oswald for the crime?  Something that folks like yourself and others have claimed was a conspiracy.  If you want to back away from that given its absurdity, then do it without trying to have it every possible way.  A classic mindset of a CTer is to make a claim but then back away from addressing the issues raised by their claim having any validity.  Here it is obvious that Oswald lied about the bag either to Frazier or the police.  He told contradictory stories.  How to get around this for a CTer?  Suggest that the police were not honest about what was said.  Even that makes no sense because the police in this situation are indicating that Oswald claimed he was innocent and didn't carry a long bag.  If they are lying to frame him, they would have said the opposite (i.e. that he confessed and confirmed that he carried his rifle that morning in a long bag).  It's laughable to see the pretzel of logic that you CTers navigate to reach a desired conclusion." Richard smith
« Last Edit: Today at 03:34:38 PM by Richard Smith »

NO , when i said he was less than honest i gave some valid reasons why he can be viewed as less than honest . you seem to have decided to ignore that . neither you nor i or anyone else on this forum can provide proof of a single word that Oswald said during his interrogations .the FACT is all you can possibly claim is that the FBI / DPD etc in interrogation stated that Oswald said certain things , maybe he did and maybe he did not . but  what is for certain is that neither you , nor i or anyone on this forum has a tape recording or first hand typed transcript of any of the interrogations . and as i said very clearly if a person (whom ever they are ) has shown them selves to have been dishonest several times would people then  have a valid reason to distrust such a person ? . i think they would have valid reason .

how exactly could they DPD lie and say he Oswald admitted to them carrying a rifle to work when he had been on TV from friday to sunday denying any guilt , saying I DIDNT SHOOT ANYONE ? .

if i was you i would be more concerned about YOU , and i would worry about how you look my friend , i am a big boy , let me take care of me OK .

Let's just use this photograph.....


 

Can anybody explain to me how a bullet coming from the left on a downward trajectory can go through Kennedy's throat and end up in Connaly's left side of his body?

It seems to me that the resistance of Kennedy's throat tissue would be minimal and would allow bullet to continue on a straight line and and possibly end up somewhere between the two jump seats.

hi Martin you ask an interesting and valid question . lets see what our LN friends come up with .

on a similar but slightly different note i once saw a SBT recreation . it was later on youtube and i pointed out something on there that a lot had not noticed , but they took note after that . i watched the program originally on tv , sorry i am at a loss to remember the program name , but as i said it was on youtube , and may still be or atleast the segment i am now speaking about .

but they set up a snipers perch , correct height , angle , distance to replicate the trajectory from the 6th floor window as per the WC . they then recreated the limo (stationary ) with gel mouids to replicate JFK and JBC . they fired a shot . then they went and examined the moulds . there was a hole on the rear of the jfk mould pretty much i think spot on with the actual wound location on JFKs back .then they said lets look at the other exits and entry points on both moulds . they did so and proclaimed that they had replicated the SBT .but i noted something odd and it bothered me . fater looking at JFKs back entry they then showed JBC back entry etc . i waited and waited to see what they did not show , which bothered me ., they did not show it . at the very end of the program with a minute or less remaining they had the presenter speaking in a room and i noted that they had the JFK gel mould in the background . they never drew attention to it .

but what it showed was clear , and on youtube one can of course pause and view it .so what did it show ? well it showed us why THEY DECIDED NOT TO SHOW US the front of the JFK gel mould in the program . while the bullet entered the back pretty accurate location wise , on the front the bullet exited NOT CENTRAL below the adams apple , but ON THE UPPER LEFT SIDE OF THE CHEST . remember they set up the height , angle , distance etc for a correct trajectory . now we know JFK had no exit on the left of his chest however in this program they still had a bullet pass through the jfk mould . so how is that possible ? just how far to the left did they have to place the JBC mould in order to get a bullet exiting the upper left of the JFK moulds chest to strike the JBC mould near the right arm pit ? . and they got away with this on tv lol .sorry now if i have gone a bit off topic but it is SBT related and i think sort of highlights the problem in recreating (attempting to lol ) the SBT .if anyone knows the program i mention id love to have the name , thanks .

"  Look at these two pictures again. Arrows are pointing to the top corner of the jump seat, and the distance between JBC and the side of the car. " Steve

these two photos are not the original two that you posted , and the original two had no arrows .

i know where the jump seat is / was . with the greatest of respect my points still stand . the right side of the jump seat is in a dark shadow and so cant be seen , the same applies for JBCs right arm from above his elbow . both are nearer the right side of the limo than the photos suggest . in addition because the photo is taken from above and at an angle from the front left AS THE PHOTOGRAPHER LOOKS AT THE LIMO JBCs upper most right shoulder area gives the appearance there was a large gap there . he was turned a bit and i believe tipping his hat or fixing his hat position . we can see a lot of JFK through that gap .we see his knees . but my point is that that is not an accurate representation of the distance connally was to the right side of the car .you mention JFK was comfortably leaning his right arm on the limo or atleast words to the affect , but i posted a photo of JBCs with right arm leaning on the right side of the limo reasonably comfortably .

"JBC is facing straight ahead, which he wasn't doing at the time of the assassination" Steve

JBC can be seen in Zapruder frames looking to his right , then facing forward pretty motionless (with JFK reacting behind him ) not long after emerging from behind the sign , and then seen turning to his right again and then going down having been hit .



this is frame z 230 . prior to the above JBC had just emerged from behind the sign , looked to his right , straightened back up and is facing forwards , in or about z232 or shortly there after frame wise he turns to his right again and then goes down . so yes JBC was facing straight  ahead as atleast the first shot had ALREADY struck JFK as can be seen in the above frame , all be it he only did so briefly .

the top right corner of the jump seat that you now have an arrow pointing at shows us that we see so much of JFK in the photo because the camera was high up and at an angle . in fact we can see jfks shin/s because the camera angle is such that it can see over the right side of the jump seat .which is what i mean by deceptive , not you now , i mean the camera angle is deceptive .it is not really showing the distance between JBC and the right side of the limo . and in fact its not really showing the entire right side of the jump seat due to the dark shadow . the photos i posted show (all be it again at an angle but a smaller one ) a better view of the position of the jump seats .

it seems you are trying to assert as MYERS did with zero in the way of proof (unless you have an over head photo showing it and we dont ) that the left side of JBCs rear end was not sat flush on the left side of the limo jump seat but hovering several inches over it . i believe from memory the jump seats were a bit over 20 inches in width .i know JBC was a tall man , but so am i . i am a 6 footer , and im big built and broad . i have a two seater sofa and each cushion is 22 inches wide . i can sit on it my rear end flush with the left side of the cushion and i have 5 to 6 inches of cushion free on my right . i am not sure just how large a rear end people think connally had but i can assure you the jump seat at over 20 inches wide was more than adequate for connallys rear end and for him to sit comfortably on it .

again you say jfk was far to the right of JBC but that cant be shown to be accurate , not with the photos here that distort the angles .there is a photo taken from the press car enroute from love field to dealey , it may be from not long after the right turn on to main , but im not 100% on that , i am going form memory . but it shows JFK and JBC from the rear . the photographer i believe but i stand to be corrected  LIKELY had his feet up on the rear seat of the car while he sat on the rear of the car . i ESTIMATE he was slightly off center to the left , but again i cant state that 100% , its just my honest opinion from studying the photo and other film . in this photo we see JBCs left shoulder protruding a few inches leftward of JFKs shoulder , and as JBC was sat 2.5 inches to the left we would expect to see that . and we must allow for the slightly offset to the left angle of the camera / photographer also .i mean if we can see a lot of both men well he was not directly behind them in a straight line . i will try to dig out that photo , or perhaps someone else has the photo i speak of and can post it .