JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Charles Collins on March 25, 2024, 10:33:03 AM
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The evidence suggests that LHO walked out the front door of the TSBD within around 3-minutes of the shots. Free lance photographer Jim Murray ran to his car and got his cameras and was near the front door of the TSBD around 3-minutes after the shots. Murray made several photos there. However several of them were completely over exposed due to an issue with his camera. Thankfully, there is one photo that Murray made at that location at that time that did turn out well. Here is a copy of the photo:
(https://i.vgy.me/fjgljE.jpg)
As you can see in the photo, there are a couple of ladies apparently upset; Howard Brennan is looking up at the window where he saw the assassin shoot JFK; and there is a cop (William Barnett) looking in the direction of the camera (which is around the end of the island in front of the TSBD). I have drawn a yellow arrow to a figure that appears to be just to the other side of Brennan. All that can be seen is apparently the back part of the head and a left shoulder. This figure appears to be wearing a white t-shirt. The figure doesn’t seem to be looking at Brennan. Rather he appears to be trying to blend in with the other people and appears to be trying to avoid letting the cop see his face.
Here is an image of LHO from a similar angle:
(https://i.vgy.me/yLUV06.jpg)
Could the figure in Murray’s photo be LHO? I think that it is an intriguing possibility. The time and place seems to be correct for this possibility. The behavior of the figure seems to be what I imagine could have happened. What do you think?
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Good observation, Charles. Thumb1:
A closer view, one image colourised.
(https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Oscomp.jpg)
Maybe a bit too balding to be Oswald?
Also, is he wearing a working man's Boiler Suit / Overalls, or is that a shadow on the Man's back and left Shoulder?
I don't think it's a Shadow as the Oswald Doppleganger appears to be in front of the tall guy with the Cap standing behind him.
Nothing appears that I can see in the Photograph that could cast such a small Shadow on the back of the Man's body.
(https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Osbald.jpg)
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Good observation, Charles. Thumb1:
A closer view, one image colourised.
(https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Oscomp.jpg)
Thanks Duncan! If we think about the irony of a photo of LHO standing next to the man who said he could identify him (but looking the other way) it is overwhelming. If there was another photo from another angle that could positively identify this figure as LHO and Brenan was shown it, I think his heart attack might have happened sooner. ;). If someone were to make a movie and present this possibility, they could have LHO hearing Brenan say he saw the assassin, then turning away with his infamous smirk on his face….
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Good observation, Charles. Thumb1:
A closer view, one image colourised.
(https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Oscomp.jpg)
Maybe a bit too balding to be Oswald.
Also, is he wearing a working man's Boiler Suit / Overalls, or is that a shadow on the man's back?
I don't think it's a Shadow as the Oswald doppleganger appears to be in front of the tall guy with the Cap standing near him.
(https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Osbald.jpg)
Also, is he wearing a working man's Boiler Suit / Overalls, or is that a shadow on the man's back?
If it is LHO, then I think it might be his shirt hung over this shoulder. I think he had that shirt on when Baker/Truly encountered him. Then he apparently had taken it off when the lady saw him walk through the office. And he might have just slung it over his shoulder.
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The evidence suggests that LHO walked out the front door of the TSBD within around 3-minutes of the shots. Free lance photographer Jim Murray ran to his car and got his cameras and was near the front door of the TSBD around 3-minutes after the shots. Murray made several photos there. However several of them were completely over exposed due to an issue with his camera. Thankfully, there is one photo that Murray made at that location at that time that did turn out well. Here is a copy of the photo:
As you can see in the photo, there are a couple of ladies apparently upset; Howard Brennan is looking up at the window where he saw the assassin shoot JFK; and there is a cop (William Barnett) looking in the direction of the camera (which is around the end of the island in front of the TSBD). I have drawn a yellow arrow to a figure that appears to be just to the other side of Brennan. All that can be seen is apparently the back part of the head and a left shoulder. This figure appears to be wearing a white t-shirt. The figure doesn’t seem to be looking at Brennan. Rather he appears to be trying to blend in with the other people and appears to be trying to avoid letting the cop see his face.
Could the figure in Murray’s photo be LHO? I think that it is an intriguing possibility. The time and place seems to be correct for this possibility. The behavior of the figure seems to be what I imagine could have happened. What do you think?
:D
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I think there is some doubt as to whether Oswald even exited the building by the front door. That would be a fairly brazen thing to do under the circumstances given the availability of alternatives. He could reasonably have anticipated that door was the mostly likely exit to encounter any law enforcement rushing into the building.
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I think there is some doubt as to whether Oswald even exited the building by the front door. That would be a fairly brazen thing to do under the circumstances given the availability of alternatives. He could reasonably have anticipated that door was the mostly likely exit to encounter any law enforcement rushing into the building.
Yes, there is some doubt about pretty much any aspect of this case. However, how reasonable is it? LHO had already encountered Baker on the second floor and shown that he didn’t visibly panic. Also, he was last seen only a short distance from and heading in the direction of the front door with only the stairs and the front door between him and the great outdoors. Two men thought they encountered LHO when they entered the building looking for a phone. And in the photo there is a cop right outside the building who apparently wasn’t rushing into the building. LHO’s best bet was to try to blend in with the other people. I think that he knew that.
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The evidence suggests that LHO walked out the front door of the TSBD within around 3-minutes of the shots. Free lance photographer Jim Murray ran to his car and got his cameras and was near the front door of the TSBD around 3-minutes after the shots. Murray made several photos there. However several of them were completely over exposed due to an issue with his camera. Thankfully, there is one photo that Murray made at that location at that time that did turn out well. Here is a copy of the photo:
(https://i.vgy.me/fjgljE.jpg)
As you can see in the photo, there are a couple of ladies apparently upset; Howard Brennan is looking up at the window where he saw the assassin shoot JFK; and there is a cop (William Barnett) looking in the direction of the camera (which is around the end of the island in front of the TSBD). I have drawn a yellow arrow to a figure that appears to be just to the other side of Brennan. All that can be seen is apparently the back part of the head and a left shoulder. This figure appears to be wearing a white t-shirt. The figure doesn’t seem to be looking at Brennan. Rather he appears to be trying to blend in with the other people and appears to be trying to avoid letting the cop see his face.
Here is an image of LHO from a similar angle:
(https://i.vgy.me/yLUV06.jpg)
Could the figure in Murray’s photo be LHO? I think that it is an intriguing possibility. The time and place seems to be correct for this possibility. The behavior of the figure seems to be what I imagine could have happened. What do you think?
Not convinced by the Oswald ID but excellent spot of Brennan and Barnett.
Barnett describes this very moment in his WC testimony:
Yes, sir; I was back where No. 8 is then. That was probably 2 1/2 minutes after the last shot was fired. About that time, my sergeant came up from this way, from the north of Houston Street and asked me to get the name of that building. I broke and ran to the front and got the name of it. There were people going in and out at that time. I ran back and told him the name of it, and about that time a construction worker ran from this southwest, corner of the intersection up to me and said, "I was standing over there and saw the man in the window with the rifle." He and I and the sergeant all three broke and ran for the door. I kept the man there with me. The sergeant ran to the back to make sure it was covered.
I'm assuming the other officer in the picture is the elusive Sergeant Howard and this is the moment just before all three men head for the front door. The timings work with Murray's account of taking the picture.
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Yes, there is some doubt about pretty much any aspect of this case. However, how reasonable is it? LHO had already encountered Baker on the second floor and shown that he didn’t visibly panic. Also, he was last seen only a short distance from and heading in the direction of the front door with only the stairs and the front door between him and the great outdoors. Two men thought they encountered LHO when they entered the building looking for a phone. And in the photo there is a cop right outside the building who apparently wasn’t rushing into the building. LHO’s best bet was to try to blend in with the other people. I think that he knew that.
We can never know for certain, but I doubt he pauses to blend in after killing the president. He is making tracks until someone stops him. Not running or anything to draw suspicion, but he keeps moving. Even when his bus gets caught in traffic, he is quickly off and, on the move,
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We can never know for certain, but I doubt he pauses to blend in after killing the president. He is making tracks until someone stops him. Not running or anything to draw suspicion, but he keeps moving. Even when his bus gets caught in traffic, he is quickly off and, on the move,
The Dallas reporter Pierce Allman, who was at the scene of the assassination, said he ran into the building shortly after the shooting to phone in his report (he said he heard three loud reports). He said he came across a young man and asked for the location of a phone. Later he said the Secret Service called him and said Oswald mentioned seeing a young man with a crew cut ask for a phone.
Allman: "I went up the steps of the depository building and there was a guy in the doorway," Allman said during that museum event. "And I ran up to him and asked him where a phone was, and he jerked his thumb and said 'in there' [while motioning over his shoulder]. I then went on in.
"About two weeks later, I had a call from the Secret Service. They finally said, 'Are you familiar with the testimony of Lee Oswald after his arrest?' I said, 'No.' They said, 'Well, he states as he was leaving the depository building, a young man with a crew cut rushed up and identified himself as a newsman and asked where a phone was. Based on what he has said and what you have said, this is you.'"
There's no other account of any of the workers who were on the steps of such an incident. Who else had a crew cut as well? Obviously Oswald could have changed his mind and gone out the back. Seems more risky; another minute and there's a chance of the building being blocked. But in all of that chaos it makes some sense he would just try to blend in and leave.
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We can never know for certain, but I doubt he pauses to blend in after killing the president. He is making tracks until someone stops him. Not running or anything to draw suspicion, but he keeps moving. Even when his bus gets caught in traffic, he is quickly off and, on the move,
I agree that we will never know details like this for certain. I see this photo as showing LHO’s reaction to the cop who is near his intended path east on Elm Street. Similarly to how he ducked into the shoe store alcove on Jefferson, he has turned his face away from the cop and is trying to blend in. But as he found out in the theater, that is easier said than done. “The Fugitive” makes it look easy on TV. However LHO apparently drew suspicions from the shoe store manager.
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I agree that we will never know details like this for certain. I see this photo as showing LHO’s reaction to the cop who is near his intended path east on Elm Street. Similarly to how he ducked into the shoe store alcove on Jefferson, he has turned his face away from the cop and is trying to blend in. But as he found out in the theater, that is easier said than done. “The Fugitive” makes it look easy on TV. However LHO apparently drew suspicions from the shoe store manager.
Oswald leaving the building shortly after the event, not asking anyone what happened, not inquiring into what this madness right outside the place he worked is about, screams of guilt, of involvement. This counter idea that he was innocently having lunch and all of this occurred and he simply walks away is not serious. The other idea that he was some sort of CIA agent/asset who left to meet his handler is equally risible. He needs to meet his handler for what reason? If he doesn't know what happened then why does he need to rush to meet his handler?
Oh wait, he does know what happened? But he doesn't expose the traitors in the CIA that killed the president? One does have to give great credit to the conspiracy believers: they can say things with a straight face that few normal humans can. Good job guys; those facial muscles are impressive.
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I have circled in yellow a dark object that appears to me to be blocking the view of the lady’s head. Is she holding a dark umbrella to shade herself from the sun? Could this be the object casting a shadow on the shirt of the figure in question? Photo experts and others with better eyes than myself, please let me know your opinions. Thanks!
(https://i.vgy.me/1Lei29.jpg)
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I have circled in yellow a dark object that appears to me to be blocking the view of the lady’s head. Is she holding a dark umbrella to shade herself from the sun? Could this be the object casting a shadow on the shirt of the figure in question? Photo experts and others with better eyes than myself, please let me know your opinions. Thanks!
(https://i.vgy.me/1Lei29.jpg)
Okay, something just occurred to me as a possibility. How about the shadow of the traffic light? The light hanging over Elm Street from the pole on the island where Murray and his camera are located might just cast a shadow in that location. We can see that light in some of the films and re-enactions. And there might be some models already existing that could be used to see where the shadow is cast. Just a thought.
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Okay, something just occurred to me as a possibility. How about the shadow of the traffic light? The light hanging over Elm Street from the pole on the island where Murray and his camera are located might just cast a shadow in that location. We can see that light in some of the films and re-enactions. And there might be some models already existing that could be used to see where the shadow is cast. Just a thought.
There's a woman stood to the right of Brennan. I believe the 'shadow' is actually her hand pointing at something.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/C1t1hRW0/Murray-Brennan-Close-Crop.png) (https://postimages.org/)
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There's a woman stood to the right of Brennan. I believe the 'shadow' is actually her hand pointing at something.
It is difficult to determine what we are seeing in some of the images. You might be right, the image you posted seems to be much clearer. I think I see her left hand pointing up. But the angle of the sun isn’t right for there to be a shadow on the shirt. So I think we are just seeing the hand blocking part of the shirt from the camera. Thanks!
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It is difficult to determine what we are seeing in some of the images. You might be right, the image you posted seems to be much clearer. I think I see her left hand pointing up. But the angle of the sun isn’t right for there to be a shadow on the shirt. So I think we are just seeing the hand blocking part of the shirt from the camera. Thanks!
Yeah, I think it's her actual hand and not a shadow.
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After shooting JFK, Lee Harvey Oswald is not, I reiterate, going to mingle with the crowds and Police Officers in the manner represented in this photograph. A guilty fleeing assassin like Oswald is going to escape the scene of the crime inconspicuously and, if possible, as soon as he feasibly can. The individual indicated by the yellow arrow in the initial post is indisputably not Lee Harvey Oswald.
Thanks for your opinion. So, just how do you propose he look inconspicuous while hurrying away from the scene while the cops are close enough to pick his pocket? The cops are instinctively looking for people hurrying away. That is the reason Baker said he stopped LHO on the second floor. If LHO had not stopped and “mingled” with Baker and Truly he might have been shot. Then he apparently tried to make himself look inconspicuous by getting a coke and walking out through the office area. If this is LHO in the photo, and he had to get past the cops at that intersection (inconspicuously), how better to look inconspicuous than to pause a few seconds and try to look like he is part of the crowd? Your apparent dismissal based on what might have been just a very short pause (the photo represents only a small fraction of one second) just doesn’t make sense to me.
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So, this witness is the same Howard Brennan, who later identified LHO as the sixth-floor gunman but failed to recognise him as he supposedly passed or stood alongside him just minutes later; not likely.
I agree that Brennan would have been very likely to recognize LHO (if he had seen him). However the photo clearly shows that Brennan is looking up towards the sixth floor window. If it was LHO standing on the opposite side of Brennan, and he only stayed there a few seconds, Brennan wouldn’t have been likely to have even seen him (on the street).
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It's a man in a hard hat - not sure how u can tell it's Brennan
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The evidence suggests that LHO walked out the front door of the TSBD within around 3-minutes of the shots. Free lance photographer Jim Murray ran to his car and got his cameras and was near the front door of the TSBD around 3-minutes after the shots. Murray made several photos there. However several of them were completely over exposed due to an issue with his camera. Thankfully, there is one photo that Murray made at that location at that time that did turn out well. Here is a copy of the photo:
(https://i.vgy.me/fjgljE.jpg)
As you can see in the photo, there are a couple of ladies apparently upset; Howard Brennan is looking up at the window where he saw the assassin shoot JFK; and there is a cop (William Barnett) looking in the direction of the camera (which is around the end of the island in front of the TSBD). I have drawn a yellow arrow to a figure that appears to be just to the other side of Brennan. All that can be seen is apparently the back part of the head and a left shoulder. This figure appears to be wearing a white t-shirt. The figure doesn’t seem to be looking at Brennan. Rather he appears to be trying to blend in with the other people and appears to be trying to avoid letting the cop see his face.
Here is an image of LHO from a similar angle:
(https://i.vgy.me/yLUV06.jpg)
Could the figure in Murray’s photo be LHO? I think that it is an intriguing possibility. The time and place seems to be correct for this possibility. The behavior of the figure seems to be what I imagine could have happened. What do you think?
there is no evidence that i am aware of that comes near to proving that Oswald walked out the front door 3 minutes after the shooting . in fact the only witness to ever say they saw Oswald leave (wes frazier ) said he saw oswald cross north houston street having left via the loading dock area , or in other words at the rear of the building . frazier said he was wearing a jacket . he told this to gary mack , all be it quite a few years after the fact .
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there is no evidence that i am aware of that comes near to proving that Oswald walked out the front door 3 minutes after the shooting . in fact the only witness to ever say they saw Oswald leave (wes frazier ) said he saw oswald cross north houston street having left via the loading dock area , or in other words at the rear of the building . frazier said he was wearing a jacket . he told this to gary mack , all be it quite a few years after the fact .
Frazier’s claims in more recent years completely contradict what he testified to under oath. I guess the statute of limitations for perjury had already run out by then. Plus Frazier needed a “hook” to sell his book…
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Yeah, I think it's her actual hand and not a shadow.
Just guessing (of course) by the appearances, but I think she is pointing toward Brennan and telling the guy in the white hat (who I will assume is a cop who appears to be looking at her) that Brennan saw the shooter.
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Frazier’s claims in more recent years completely contradict what he testified to under oath. I guess the statute of limitations for perjury had already run out by then. Plus Frazier needed a “hook” to sell his book…
Frazier's claim is an odd story but I doubt Frazier is telling it to sell his book. I can't imagine anyone bought the book for that reason. Frazier is definitive in his WC testimony that the last time he saw Oswald that day was between 10 and 12. But maybe he thought the question was directed to Oswald's movements before the assassination. Otherwise it is difficult to reconcile his two stories. Maybe someone should ask him. Frazier does appear to entertain the possibility that Oswald is innocent. At the 6th floor museum event, he mentioned that Oswald often played on the lawn with the neighborhood kids. And because of that, Frazier concluded that he didn't think Oswald was capable of the crime because kids have some intuitive sense of people in his opinion. It was pretty silly but I'm guessing he hopes that Oswald is innocent so as not to bear any sense of historical association between himself and the crime. Arguably, there might be some cause for him to have been a little suspicious of Oswald taking an unexpected trip to the Paine home and carrying a long narrow package to work on the morning that the president was due to drive by the building. I also have some difficulty believing that there was no discussion that morning between Frazier and Oswald of the pending presidential visits. That would have been the biggest news story of the day and the motorcade would be passing their place of work. I think Frazier may have downplayed any suggestion that he should have been a little more observant that morning once he understood that he had driven the assassin and his weapon to the building. He put on the Gomer Pyle act and claimed he didn't take much notice of anything and knew "nothing" like Sgt. Schultz.
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Frazier's claim is an odd story but I doubt Frazier is telling it to sell his book. I can't imagine anyone bought the book for that reason. Frazier is definitive in his WC testimony that the last time he saw Oswald that day was between 10 and 12. But maybe he thought the question was directed to Oswald's movements before the assassination. Otherwise it is difficult to reconcile his two stories. Maybe someone should ask him. Frazier does appear to entertain the possibility that Oswald is innocent. At the 6th floor museum event, he mentioned that Oswald often played on the lawn with the neighborhood kids. And because of that, Frazier concluded that he didn't think Oswald was capable of the crime because kids have some intuitive sense of people in his opinion. It was pretty silly but I'm guessing he hopes that Oswald is innocent so as not to bear any sense of historical association between himself and the crime. Arguably, there might be some cause for him to have been a little suspicious of Oswald taking an unexpected trip to the Paine home and carrying a long narrow package to work on the morning that the president was due to drive by the building. I also have some difficulty believing that there was no discussion that morning between Frazier and Oswald of the pending presidential visits. That would have been the biggest news story of the day and the motorcade would be passing their place of work. I think Frazier may have downplayed any suggestion that he should have been a little more observant that morning once he understood that he had driven the assassin and his weapon to the building. He put on the Gomer Pyle act and claimed he didn't take much notice of anything and knew "nothing" like Sgt. Schultz.
Yes, I think that Frazier’s sworn testimony cannot be reconciled with his more recent claims. In Trask’s book, he states that the location of Jim Murray’s parked car was on Houston Street near the TSBD loading dock. Murray ran to his car immediately following the shots. And he got his cameras, and after reloading one of them, he went directly to the area in front of the front door of the TSBD and began taking photos (including the one this thread concerns). So, I think that if LHO (or anyone else for that matter) had exited from the loading dock part of the TSBD that Murray would have been in a good position to observe it. As far as I know, Murray has never indicated that he saw anyone exit the loading dock area of the TSBD.
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Just guessing (of course) by the appearances, but I think she is pointing toward Brennan and telling the guy in the white hat (who I will assume is a cop who appears to be looking at her) that Brennan saw the shooter.
so another witness added to the very long LN list of those accused of seeking to profit from jfks death .but yet this book came out 58 years after the assassination .i guess he was in no hurry to profit .
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so another witness added to the very long LN list of those accused of seeking to profit from jfks death .but yet this book came out 58 years after the assassination .i guess he was in no hurry to profit .
If you are commenting on Frazier’s more recent revelations, and his motivations (as perceived by others), then the quote from my post you selected has nothing to do with Frazier. It is simply my interpretation of what I perceive is happening when the photo was made. None of that has anything to do with Frazier. To respond to what I think you are referring to, I am going by memory, but I seem to remember Frazier saying someone else finally convinced him to write the book. It might have been his son (if he has one). So, maybe the motivation involved potential inheritances? Anyway, I think Frazier’s chances of selling his book increased with every new revelation he came up with. If Frazier didn’t already know that, then someone probably told him so.
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"the quote from my post you selected has nothing to do with Frazier."
Charles i must apologize , you are correct , i some hoe managed to post a completely wrong quote from you . and failed to realize i had done that . so i i hope you will accept my apologies . i have no idea how i managed to do that . below is what i intended to quote .
"Frazier’s claims in more recent years completely contradict what he testified to under oath. I guess the statute of limitations for perjury had already run out by then. Plus Frazier needed a “hook” to sell his book…"
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"the quote from my post you selected has nothing to do with Frazier."
Charles i must apologize , you are correct , i some hoe managed to post a completely wrong quote from you . and failed to realize i had done that . so i i hope you will accept my apologies . i have no idea how i managed to do that . below is what i intended to quote .
"Frazier’s claims in more recent years completely contradict what he testified to under oath. I guess the statute of limitations for perjury had already run out by then. Plus Frazier needed a “hook” to sell his book…"
No apology needed. We all make mistakes every now and then. I thought that was what you meant. I responded to it accordingly.
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Mr. BELIN - Did you notice what clothes the man was wearing as he came up to you?
Mr. BAKER - At that particular time I was looking at his face, and it seemed to me like he had a light brown jacket on and maybe some kind of white-looking shirt.
Anyway, as I noticed him walking away from me, it was kind of dim in there that particular day, and it was hanging out to his side.
Mr. BELIN - Handing you what has been marked as Commission Exhibit 150, would this appear to be anything that you have ever seen before?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; I believe that is the shirt that he had on when he came. I wouldn't be sure of that. It seemed to me like that other shirt was a little bit darker than that whenever I saw him in the homicide office there.
Mr. BELIN - What about when you saw him in the School Book Depository Building, does this look familiar as anything he was wearing, if you know?
Mr. BAKER - I couldn't say whether that was--it seemed to me it was a light-colored brown but I couldn't say it was that or not.
Mr. DULLES - Lighter brown did you say, I am just asking what you said. I couldn't quite hear.
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; all I can remember it was in my recollection of it it was a light brown jacket.
In March 1964, Officer Marrion L. Baker, who had encountered Oswald on the 2nd floor of the Texas School Book Depository, testified before the Warren Commission that Oswald was wearing a light brown garment. The individual depicted in the above image, taken soon after this encounter, is wearing light-coloured attire, but it is too light to be light brown.
(https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth184984/m1/1/med_res/)
So, for the sake of argument, let's assume that the individual in the first image is Oswald, who had removed his upper garment to reveal a light-coloured garment. The evidence indicates that Oswald was wearing a white crew-neck (without a collar) tee shirt, and the person depicted in the photo appears to be wearing a light-coloured shirt with a collar high up on the nape of his neck.
All of this confirms that it is not Oswald in the first photo above.
I don’t agree or see any logic to your “conclusion.”
It appears to me that LHO was changing his appearance with various clothing articles as an attempt to make it more difficult to track him. Several people said they saw a man in the sixth floor window wearing a white or light colored shirt. Baker said he had on a light brown jacket (I think his brown shirt with the tail out could easily be mistaken for a jacket). Earlene Roberts said he put on a jacket at the rooming house. Tippit murder scene witnesses said he had on a light colored jacket. A light colored jacket was found under a parked car along the path he took towards the Texas Theater. And he had a brown shirt on when arrested at the theater.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember what clothes he had on when you saw him?
Mrs. REID. What he was wearing, he had on a white T-shirt and some kind of wash trousers. What color I couldn't tell you.