JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Jerry Freeman on March 16, 2019, 10:28:57 PM
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An open poll [no time limit set] Add comments if you will please. Must vote to see results. I personally have there been many times.
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6 or 7 times.
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An open poll [no time limit set] Add comments if you will please. Must vote to see results. I personally have there been many times.
Three times... And I find it disgusting. A pseudo shrine in a city whose elected officials hated John Kennedy, and whose police department did nothing to bring the murderers to justice. I'm particularly revolted by the Sixth Floor museum ..... A place were drones file by video exhibits and nod their heads knowingly while absorbing the propaganda that's being presented.
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I?ve visited countless times in the last 55 years. The area is well maintained and but for its history it is a peaceful spot. During the summer it can get rowdy with people on vacation and people selling their books and tours but its public property and there isn?t much the City can do to shoo them away. I?ve been to the Museum maybe 5 times. I think it is subdued and respectfully done. It does not purport to offer all theories of the case. The only thing on display which I think is tacky is Oswald?s wedding ring. Under glass and a spotlight you would think it was a valuable jewel; it?s not.
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I visited once. Just long enough to see the museum. I would like to return and spend enough time to roam around the area and contemplate what I have learned over the years. When we arrived, I felt like I knew the area already because I have seen so many photos and videos.
I recently started using a virtual reality head mounted display for flight simulation. And it occurred to me that if we had access to an accurate 3-D model of Dealey Plaza, we could ?visit? in the virtual world quite often. I know that there is at least one model that has been made. But the creator was unwilling to share it freely. Has this changed since I have been mostly away from this place for a while?
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I visited once. Just long enough to see the museum. I would like to return and spend enough time to roam around the area and contemplate what I have learned over the years. When we arrived, I felt like I knew the area already because I have seen so many photos and videos.
I recently started using a virtual reality head mounted display for flight simulation. And it occurred to me that if we had access to an accurate 3-D model of Dealey Plaza, we could ?visit? in the virtual world quite often. I know that there is at least one model that has been made. But the creator was unwilling to share it freely. Has this changed since I have been mostly away from this place for a while?
Wouldn't it be great to see a virtual reality reverse video of the view from the position of JFK's head at the time his head ruptured back to the intersection of Houston & Elm? While focusing the camera on the SE sixth floor window, the entire time.... I'm 100% certain that we would see nothing but Live Oak tree foliage at the time the shots were fired.
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Wouldn't it be great to see a virtual reality reverse video of the view from the position of JFK's head at the time his head ruptured back to the intersection of Houston & Elm? While focusing the camera on the SE sixth floor window, the entire time.... I'm 100% certain that we would see nothing but Live Oak tree foliage at the time the shots were fired.
Take a look at the re-enactment videos. One of them does include a view of the window from the limousine.
But, yes a computer generated virtual reality setup would allow for many interesting viewpoints.
I am 100% certain that even if it was done with the most accurate methods possible and showed that you are wrong, you would not listen to reason. You already have your mind made up.
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Take a look at the re-enactment videos. One of them does include a view of the window from the limousine.
But, yes a computer generated virtual reality setup would allow for many interesting viewpoints.
I am 100% certain that even if it was done with the most accurate methods possible and showed that you are wrong, you would not listen to reason. You already have your mind made up.
I'll admit that it would take a lot more than what we've we've been fed so far, to begin to sate my appetite for the truth..... But that doesn't mean that I can't be shown FACTUAL evidence that could change my mind.
I would like to see a view from JFK's head to the window starting at the eruption of his head and back to the intersection..... I'd be willing to gamble a bit that the view would shown nothing but Live oak foliage....
In fact I'd pledge a donation to the person who could create a virtual reality view like the one I've described.....
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Three for me. Throat shot came from Black Dog Man or Badge Man. Fatal shot from where the overpass meets the picket fence. My humble opinion.
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Yeah I was there once with my family, but it was so humid, we had to depart earlier than I wanted to accommodate my mother. I got a chance to interview Groden briefly who was there hawking his merch. I have mixed feelings about him due to the reports of several researchers. But he was largely responsible for the first public showing of the Zapruder film, which was a seminal event in assassination research. I find the museum to be much more offensive and it feels like a Fox News presentation to me.
What about general impressions? One of the least likely locations for an assassin in all of Dealey Plaza, is the patsy's window. If your goal is to get framed, this would be a pretty good site to select. On the other hand, I stood behind the fence and it was an ideal shot. There was plenty of cover, shade, and a parking lot full of cars to cover the assassin's escape. There's also a strong vibration of evil in this location for the sensitive heart. I had the overwhelming feeling that Oswald was framed and felt great frustration for him. I've been sporadically obsessed with this case from the outset (I was only six in 1963) and even in junior high school read everything I could get my hands on. Over the years I've read much of the material discovered by the many private researchers dedicated to finding the truth of that horrible day. It's clear to me there were at least three shooters with multiple support goons to clean up after all hell broke loose. LBJ was the prime cause and was being prosecuted for two of the scandals plaguing him at the time. Johnson's behavior around and just after the assassination prove a criminal cover-up for starters and there's a fair amount of evidence to suggest his involvement in the planning of the Texas trip. Never forget that the French and Russian intelligence services, Jackie and Bobby Kennedy and many others believed Johnson was the mastermind, but here in this country, it's seen as outrageous to hold such views...
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Yeah I was there once with my family, but it was so humid, we had to depart earlier than I wanted to accommodate my mother. I got a chance to interview Groden briefly who was there hawking his merch. I have mixed feelings about him due to the reports of several researchers. But he was largely responsible for the first public showing of the Zapruder film, which was a seminal event in assassination research. I find the museum to be much more offensive and it feels like a Fox News presentation to me.
What about general impressions? One of the least likely locations for an assassin in all of Dealey Plaza, is the patsy's window. If your goal is to get framed, this would be a pretty good site to select. On the other hand, I stood behind the fence and it was an ideal shot. There was plenty of cover, shade, and a parking lot full of cars to cover the assassin's escape. There's also a strong vibration of evil in this location for the sensitive heart. I had the overwhelming feeling that Oswald was framed and felt great frustration for him. I've been sporadically obsessed with this case from the outset (I was only six in 1963) and even in junior high school read everything I could get my hands on. Over the years I've read much of the material discovered by the many private researchers dedicated to finding the truth of that horrible day. It's clear to me there were at least three shooters with multiple support goons to clean up after all hell broke loose. LBJ was the prime cause and was being prosecuted for two of the scandals plaguing him at the time. Johnson's behavior around and just after the assassination prove a criminal cover-up for starters and there's a fair amount of evidence to suggest his involvement in the planning of the Texas trip. Never forget that the French and Russian intelligence services, Jackie and Bobby Kennedy and many others believed Johnson was the mastermind, but here in this country, it's seen as outrageous to hold such views...
Bravo Jim.... You're singing my song, ( or I 'm singing your song ) .....Either way I'm happy that our ranks are growing.....
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As many times as I have been to DP...I have never gone to the Sixth Floor Museum. You have to pay to watch the official story getting plugged into everybody's senses. (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/Smileys/default2/zapped_him.gif)
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As many times as I have been to DP...I have never gone to the Sixth Floor Museum. You have to pay to watch the official story getting plugged into everybody's senses. (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/Smileys/default2/zapped_him.gif)
The Sixth Floor reminds me of the North Korean Museum of US war atrocities.... The crew of the USS Pueblo was seized by NK and the crew was held in captivity. While in captivity they were taken to the museum of United States War atrocities from the Korean War. They were herded through the museum and an interpreter explained what each display in the Glass display cases was about. While the prisoners were being escorted through the museum NK citizens were touring the museum with grim faces and angrily glaring at the crew of the Pueblo.... One display case held a large rusty spike and the placard told how a US Navy Corpsman used that spike to kill North Korean babies by plunging the spike into their heads.... Another display case held a small match box with a parachute attached and the card explained how this device was used by the US Airforce to parachute germs onto the poor NK farmers.... Of course the crew of the Pueblo thought the displays were ludicrous ( but dared not laugh or display their amusment) .... When I read that at the time I thought that Americans would never be taken in by such childish displays....But that was before I visited the Sixth floor.....
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Three times... And I find it disgusting. A pseudo shrine in a city whose elected officials hated John Kennedy, and whose police department did nothing to bring the murderers to justice. I'm particularly revolted by the Sixth Floor museum ..... A place were drones file by video exhibits and nod their heads knowingly while absorbing the propaganda that's being presented.
Good insight into the crime scene.
I have not been , but would love to get inside of the Dal Tex to get a real view, of what the sniper could see over through the 6th floor window of the T.S.B.D out onto onto Elm Street.
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Why does one member [so far] not wish to visit the plaza? Just curious.
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As many times as I have been to DP...I have never gone to the Sixth Floor Museum. You have to pay to watch the official story getting plugged into everybody's senses. (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/Smileys/default2/zapped_him.gif)
Hi Jerry, I would imagine even if you don't want to "watch the official story getting plugged" there's still lots to learn there. It's not as if someone is going to walk in a CT and walk out a LN. The place also gives a person a sense of history. Do you really not want to see the place it actually happened?
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I've been there 3 times now. And the 3 things that surprised me were the steep grade of the street where JFK was shot. The lack of cover at the grassy knoll wooden fence, anyone would see you from behind for quite a ways....and that if you follow the zapruder film it seems like they do slow down to a crawl at the head shot, if you just film any car going by it shows the difference of not slowing down.
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For those who haven't actually been to the site, or have not seen the easily-searched images of that corner, it's glassed-off from the public.
Seems that corner window was glassed-off from another direction once upon a time*. And boxed in.
*11.22.63
(12:30-ish)
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I've been there 3 times now. And the 3 things that surprised me were the steep grade of the street where JFK was shot. The lack of cover at the grassy knoll wooden fence, anyone would see you from behind for quite a ways....and that if you follow the zapruder film it seems like they do slow down to a crawl at the head shot, if you just film any car going by it shows the difference of not slowing down.
I've never to Dealey Plaza. But I've seen comments from people who have, and most are amazed at how small it really is. Did you get that impression?
UPDATE: Was the size of Dealey Plaza smaller or larger than you expected?
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I've never to Dealey Plaza. But I've seen comments from people who have, and most are amazed at how small it really is. Did you get that impression?
Did you get that impression?
Yes.. perfect for cross fire
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Did you get that impression?
Yes.. perfect for cross fire
I missed that particular fusillade...
Oh, btw, this subject has been discussed prior, about 3-4 years ago. You said you had been to Dealey Plaza and that it wasn't smaller than you expected. And you also said you stood on the white X that marked the kill zone and that you almost got arrested. And you also mentioned that you could not see the sn from that position.
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I missed that particular fusillade...
Oh, btw, this subject has been discussed prior, about 3-4 years ago. You said you had been to Dealey Plaza and that it wasn't smaller than you expected. And you also said you stood on the white X that marked the kill zone and that you almost got arrested. And you also mentioned that you could not see the sn from that position.
Stop making up stuff.
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Stop making up stuff.
That is what I recall. So I can take it from you that you did not try to stand on that X, and either was almost arrested or could have been? I remember something about it was either dark or starting to get dark, which might explain a 'could-have-been arrested' concern.
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Bump for our newer members.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/View_from_Reunion_Tower_August_2015_01.jpg/450px-View_from_Reunion_Tower_August_2015_01.jpg)
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Yes and what struck me was the proximity around the knoll and wall area where Zapruder, Sitzman, Hudson et all were.
Sorry CTers but theres isn't a chance in hell someone fired a gun from behind that fence without them hearing. Hudson actually walked back towards the fence after the headshot. Simply impossible
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(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-yjvXjf91Dv8/WVytlZdEUtI/AAAAAAABMQg/Auh7g9l1Irkj-7gYCiHpooNL80_r0Ni4wCLcBGAs/s720/Dealey-Plaza-Videos-And-Photos-Logo.png) (http://dvp-video-audio-archive.blogspot.com/2017/07/dealey-plaza-videos-and-photos.html)
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Bump for our newer members.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/View_from_Reunion_Tower_August_2015_01.jpg/450px-View_from_Reunion_Tower_August_2015_01.jpg)
The poll is ongoing.----------------------------------------
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Polls on a Forum are pointless. It merely shows what the people who bothered with the poll think. Not much of a scientific sampling.
The "Poll" feature should be disabled.
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Polls on a Forum are pointless. It merely shows what the people who bothered with the poll think. Not much of a scientific sampling.
Besides this deadpan response..did you make a selection?
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I used to live & work in Dallas in the early/mid 90's. I had to take the bus around for awhile. But I lived in Coppell, which didn't have bus service. The closest towns with bus service were Irving to the south, Carrollton to the east & Lewisville to the north. I had to walk from one end of the main road through Coppell (Sandy Lake Rd. and 121 highway) to the other end (I 35 freeway and Whitlock Rd) in Carrollton just to catch the bus. It's hard to forget walking 6 1/2 miles on one of the most deadliest roads in Texas in that hot ass heat. LOL Took me about 2 hours 15 minutes. But it was a little longer coming back because there was a slight hill by my house.
I was only 18 at the time so I could handle it. Now would probably take me 4 hours. lol I was happy as hell when I got my first car. An 83 Cadillac 2 door Coupe De'ville that I bought from an old pimp named pistol who lived close to Webb Chappel & Harry Hines, near Bachman Lake & Lovefield airport. It was strawberry w/ white leather interior, all stock, clean and well maintained. He let me have it for only $2,000. I friggen loved that car. But I didn't like living Texas. Especially being from California.
I had my share of hanging out in Dealey Plaza and Deep Elum though. And I've thought about why the motorcade didn't just go straight on Main if they were going to the Expo. They would have been clear on both sides. Instead they took the worst possible route, right next to buildings and areas that posed threats.
Anyone who goes should look inside the pergola on the grassy knoll. Only then can you appreciate why it was the perfect spot for an assassin. Behind the fence was way too open. Anybody back there could see you. But the pergola covers you all around with a back exit to slip out.
All you would need is a car backed up a foot or two from the fence with a woman driver so as to avoid suspicion. Have another person impersonating a cop or an agent to keep people from going back there while you throw your gun and yourself in the trunk.
The woman drives off alone with you and the gun in the trunk and the imposter walks off never to be seen again. The perfect crime from the perfect vantage point with a perfect exit.
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Bump...the anniversary Nov 22 2021 is approaching in a couple of weeks.
Is anyone making plans to visit in the future?
I think they should rename it Kennedy or JFK Plaza...won't happen I guess :-\
When the Hertz sign was still there----
(https://abcnews.go.com/assets/static/interactives/jfk-zoom/img/jfk.jpg?v=2)
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'I think they should rename it Kennedy or JFK Plaza...won't happen I guess'
'Lets Make a Deal Plaza'
'The Helen Markham Way'
'Oswald Ambush Parkette'
Reward witnesses along the escape route in some way:
_With at least a shout-out, a holler, to Ted Callaway
_Maybe set up Euins in a little eatery nearby. Call it.. oh.. I don't know.. 'The White Spot'
_Award Brennan a home course in colour perception
_expand Brewer's tennis shoe section
_expand conspiracist-monger grey matter sections
_Set up Sitzman in a modest dance school called 'The Herky-Jerky'
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,3093.msg115798.html#msg115798
And so on
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Hi all.
For those of you who, like me, have never been to Dealey Plaza, here's a really nice walking tour video of the area that I've just found on YouTube.
Seems it was only recorded a few weeks ago. I think this is as close as I'll ever get to being there myself!
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I've been there a few times. The place is surreal. My impression is that it is much smaller and condensed an area than you might imagine from photos. Like a movie set. And the area behind the Grassy Knoll, which appears to offer seclusion from the photos and films of the assassination, is actually open to half of Dallas on the backside. No one would stand in that place with a gun waiting to assassinate the president.
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No one would stand in that place with a gun waiting to assassinate the president.
_ There's always the sewer
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(https://i.postimg.cc/yNZ9pqST/X-MARKS-THE-SPOT.png)
XX marks the spot
Good one.. last two shots, haha
Too far to travel for me: I've seen way too many episodes of Mayday to consider flying ever again. I've been hearing for years that most people thought the area way smaller than expected. The enormity of the event contributed to that, it's been said.
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I haven't been there but wish to at some point. I imagine it will give me a much better feel for things. It won't prove or disprove anything I am guessing but it's difficult to only see it in photos and videos.
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I haven't been there but wish to at some point. I imagine it will give me a much better feel for things. It won't prove or disprove anything I am guessing but it's difficult to only see it in photos and videos.
It would galvanize the feeling that it was indeed..
..a perfect site for an ambush [no matter who pulled the trigger]
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Anyone who honestly thinks someone fired a high powered rifle from behind the fence on the knoll with people so close (who didnt hear it) is delusional.
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Anyone who honestly thinks someone fired a high powered rifle from behind the fence on the knoll with people so close (who didnt hear it) is delusional.
Perfect location to get seen and caught
These characters are simply incapable of rational thinking
There is utterly no proof of a second gunman
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Anyone who honestly thinks someone fired a high powered rifle from behind the fence on the knoll with people so close (who didnt hear it) is delusional.
Mr. ZAPRUDER - Yes--after the shots--yes, some of them were motorcycle cops--I guess they left their motorcycles running and they were running right behind me, of course, in the line of the shooting. I guess they thought it came from right behind me.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you have any impression as to the direction from which these shots came?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - No, I also thought it came from back of me. Of course, you can't tell when something is in line it could come from anywhere, but being I was here and he was hit on this line and he was hit right in the head--I saw it right around here, so it looked like it came from here and it could come from there.
Mr. LIEBELER - All right, as you stood here on the abutment and looked down into Elm Street, you saw the President hit on the right side of the head and you thought perhaps the shots had come from behind you?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - Well, yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - From the direction behind you?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - Yes, actually--I couldn't say what I thought at the moment...
Must have been delusional.
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Must have been delusional.
Dishonest posting, quote mining. Yawn. Not going to bother to explain to you what Zapruder said, I think you already know.
Marilyn Sitzman FYI, rejected the knoll shots. She was too close. As was Emmett Hudson who can be seen moving towards the fence after the headshot. Backing himself up from the road. He was mere feet awat from the fence. Yet he didnt notice someone firing a high powered rifle over his head?!
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Dishonest posting, quote mining. Yawn. Not going to bother to explain to you what Zapruder said, I think you already know.
Marilyn Sitzman FYI, rejected the knoll shots. She was too close. As was Emmett Hudson who can be seen moving towards the fence after the headshot. Backing himself up from the road. He was mere feet awat from the fence. Yet he didnt notice someone firing a high powered rifle over his head?!
Sitzman: The Real Story
No, really
NEWS FLASH
Dallas, Texas
August 10, 2020
Faked, planted & altered by Bill Chapman
Title inspired by 'Operation Mongoose'
MOVER & SHAKER DALLAS SECRETARY ADMITS TO BEING RESPONSIBLE FOR HERKY-JERKY MOVEMENTS OF EFFEMINATE DRESSMAKER ABRAHAM ZAPRUDER DURING HIS FAKED, PLANTED, OR ALTERED-IN-SOME-WAY JFK SNUFF FILM
In an interview from Bill Chapman's vivid imagination, Marilyn Sitzman, Zapruder's erstwhile secretary at his dressmaking facility in Dallas, revealed her kinkier side. 'Abraham had James Stewart Syndrome (vertigo) and asked me for support while he filmed', she began. 'He wanted to get up high enough in order to effect an advantageous view of what turned out to be a real nightmare on Elm Street. He had a great view of the singular action that lead to the womanizer being penetrated through-and-through along with the guv (who was almost snuffed himself). But a view not nearly as fine as that of Jackie, OH Lee, Alex Hidell (rhymes with Fidel) or Dirty Harvey.'
'Being a naughty little secretary, I just couldn't resist that butt-end view and so I gave him the 'one-finger-salute' a couple of times.'
'I got the idea from an iron we use in the trade to smooth out garments, called a 'goose', recalled Sitzman. She goes on to explain, 'An effective goosing includes the element of surprise. It is usually delivered at a moment the victim is not expecting it, and may be delivered in a public place but in such a manner that it is rarely witnessed by anyone other than the gooser and goosee'.
Informed later that Zapruder's unexpected jerky movements had caused a good deal of film disruption and CTer mind-blurring, Ms Sitzman replied 'My bad. But in the end it was a win-win: Abe got his snuff film, and—not being one to miss an opportunity—I went ahead and introduced a new dance craze called the 'Herky-Jerky'.
Copyright: Bill Chapman August 2020
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Dishonest posting, quote mining. Yawn. Not going to bother to explain to you what Zapruder said, I think you already know.
As was Emmett Hudson who can be seen moving towards the fence after the headshot. He was mere feet awat from the fence.
Try and explain what you just wrote there rather than translate your interpretation of Zapruder's testimony which really explains itself :-\
Hudson------
The shots that I heard definitely came from behind and above me. When I laid down on the ground I laid on my right side and my view was still toward the street where the President's car had passed. I did look around but I did not see any firearms at all. This shot sounded to me like a high powered rifle.
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/hudson1.htm
"Behind and above" was not explored very well by the lawyers [for some reason]
This is a poll please just address the poll.
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Anyone who honestly thinks someone fired a high powered rifle from behind the fence on the knoll with people so close (who didnt hear it) is delusional.
Indeed.
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Perfect location to get seen and caught
These characters are simply incapable of rational thinking
There is utterly no proof of a second gunman
Indeed.
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Indeed.
Right, but it was a secret CIA silencer weapon that was used. Besides the CIA did bad things and the government lied and Guatemala and Operation Northwoods and this or that Cold War intrigue.
All of that is true (except for the weapon part) but none of it, in my view, has anything to do with the assassination. But the conspiracy believers insists it does. They read these goofy conspiracy books with their tendentious history of the Cold War and then believe it has to be part of what happened that day in Dallas. Because JFK was going to end the power of the "deep state" that was running things by making peace with Moscow and Castro and Mao (he said so in his American University speech).
More than half a century of this. The most investigated crime in US history. Tens of millions of pages of documents released, multiple generations of people in power since then, numerous investigations conducted by the government and news media and others. Nothing has come out supporting these claims. But for the conspiracist any investigation that indicate no conspiracy only prove the need for another investigation. Ad infinitum.
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Our "history buff" seems to have missed the Katzenbach meno,
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62268#relPageId=29
especially,
Glad I could help.
"The public must be satisfied that Oswald was the assassin; that he did not have confederates who are still at large; and that the evidence was such that he would have been convicted at trial."
_ And they did indeed discover, for the ages
Oswald was the lone assassin
Still no conspiracy in sight after decades of CT moaning
Evidence supplied via Tippit and Gang of 12
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BONUS
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Katzenbach meno memo
There. Glad I could help
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Dishonest posting As was Emmett Hudson... he didnt notice someone firing a high powered rifle over his head?!
Talk about dishonest! Gaslighter Shields!
Is a sniper going to stick his rifle out and wave it around for everyone to see after he has fired it?
The shots that I heard definitely came from behind and above me.
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/hudson1.htm
"The public must be satisfied that Oswald was the assassin; that he did not have confederates who are still at large; and that the evidence was such that he would have been convicted at trial." There. Glad I could help
Some help :-\
Chapman might be satisfied... but the increasingly dis-satisfied public still isn't.
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An early 60's aerial view .....
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth1030229/m1/1/zoom/?resolution=6&lat=2426.215592015087&lon=3333.5509347606585
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today's marathon
(https://img65.pixhost.to/images/54/251922515_cape77soe6w23lhpxbx2mibkha.jpg)