JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Michael Welch on May 02, 2022, 02:38:52 AM
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For almost sixty years Detective Jim Leavelle stated that he jerked Mr. Oswald back and to his left by holding his hand inside Mr. Oswald's pants and on his belt. Actually, Detective Leavelle did not do anything because he was not looking to his left, and he did not have enough time to react. When he did have time to do his job, he was a dirty cop. He helped Captain Will Fritz create the narrative to frame Mr. Oswald. Detective Leavelle was the man who interviewed Miss Vicki Adams and added the element of seeing Mr. Shelley and Mr. Lovelady on the first floor. A fact that was denied by her and Miss Sandra Styles, and pretty much by Lovelady and Shelley as well. Sincerely yours, Michael
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Are you saying that Jim knowingly went on a potential suicide mission just so that the man he was escorting could be killed by another nut who was firing a gun a few feet away in his direction?
(https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2019/08/Lee_Harvey_Oswald_being_shot_by_Jack_Ruby_as_Oswald_is_being_moved_by_police_1963-e1567183493698-1024x677.jpg)
JohnM
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Hi John, How have you been? No, I am saying that for years Jim said that he pulled Mr. Oswald back to the left, and if he had not done that Mr. Oswald would have been shot more squarely by Jack Ruby. Thus, Jim said that the bullet might have done less damage by passing straight through. None of this happened. Detective Jim Leavelle misremembered. Sincerely yours, Michael
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For almost sixty years Detective Jim Leavelle stated that he jerked Mr. Oswald back and to his left by holding his hand inside Mr. Oswald's pants and on his belt. Actually, Detective Leavelle did not do anything because he was not looking to his left, and he did not have enough time to react. When he did have time to do his job, he was a dirty cop. He helped Captain Will Fritz create the narrative to frame Mr. Oswald. Detective Leavelle was the man who interviewed Miss Vicki Adams and added the element of seeing Mr. Shelley and Mr. Lovelady on the first floor. A fact that was denied by her and Miss Sandra Styles, and pretty much by Lovelady and Shelley as well. Sincerely yours, Michael
Bravo, Mr Welch! With sharp eyed, thinking people like you studying the case, perhaps someday the LNer's will be compelled to accept the glaring truth.
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Hi Walt, It is good to see that you are still here! Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I doubt that anyone will really change their views, but there is plenty of evidence out there. Thank you for everything, Sincerely yours, Michael
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Bravo, Mr Welch! With sharp eyed, thinking people like you studying the case, perhaps someday the LNer's will be compelled to accept the glaring truth.
How exactly do you believe that Leavelle's recollection of this event lends itself toward a conspiracy? He simply stated his recollection of the event. Big deal. Why not start a thread on whether Oswald was wearing boxers or briefs and suggest the answer discredits the WC?
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Hi Richard, It is good to see you are still here! My point is not that. I should have been clearer, sorry. My point is that Detective Leavelle was content to repeat his propaganda [I am the good ole detective handcuffed to Oswald; I tried to save him....] for years, and that he was willing to do Captain Fritz's bidding by adding information to affidavits to help frame Mr. Oswald. Sincerely yours, Michael
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Hi Richard, It is good to see you are still here! My point is not that. I should have been clearer, sorry. My point is that Detective Leavelle was content to repeat his propaganda [I am the good ole detective handcuffed to Oswald; I tried to save him....] for years, and that he was willing to do Captain Fritz's bidding by adding information to affidavits to help frame Mr. Oswald. Sincerely yours, Michael
Michael-
You must be the politest guy to frequent this forum. A refreshing change. I don't see anything about this that is particularly sinister or lends itself to propaganda. Much less demonstrates a conspiracy. He simply stated his recollection. This was a traumatic event that took place quickly. Lots of confusion. Maybe at some point he did pull Oswald back in the melee in a belated attempt to save him. Obviously, the event is on film. So there would be no point in lying about it.
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Hi Richard, I agree. When a person is in a traumatic event, memory as a mechanism is unreliable. Thus, he misremembered. He could have looked at pictures, or the film and corrected himself. He chose to repeat and repeat and repeat the same story. Thank you for your input, Sincerely yours, Michael
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Hi John, How have you been? No, I am saying that for years Jim said that he pulled Mr. Oswald back to the left, and if he had not done that Mr. Oswald would have been shot more squarely by Jack Ruby. Thus, Jim said that the bullet might have done less damage by passing straight through. None of this happened. Detective Jim Leavelle misremembered. Sincerely yours, Michael
Hi John, How have you been?
Hi Michael, I've been ok and trying to stay out of trouble. How about you?
No, I am saying that for years Jim said that he pulled Mr. Oswald back to the left, and if he had not done that Mr. Oswald would have been shot more squarely by Jack Ruby. Thus, Jim said that the bullet might have done less damage by passing straight through. None of this happened. Detective Jim Leavelle misremembered. Sincerely yours, Michael
At first they are walking side by side, then Ruby rushes for Oswald and Oswald falls back and reacts to the shot but it's difficult to judge how much influence Leavelle has on Oswald's backward movement?
(https://i.makeagif.com/media/11-24-2015/yrnG0F.gif)
(https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-27-2015/KMjbNP.gif)
JohnM
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Ruby was probably told to look for the one tall guy with a white hat and nearly white suit in a crowd of black hat and black suit guys. That would be the guy leading Oswald to a clear shot area where the cameras were set up so as capture Ruby shooting the one shot only into Oswald’s gut. Bullet probably contained cyanide to make sure one shot did the job.
The reason for Ruby to do the shooting in front of cameras was probably to make the Mafia be the primary suspect for the next 3 murders of Malcolm X, MLK, and RFK, thereby diverting the public from connecting dots that make LBJ the main suspect.
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Hi John, Happy to hear you are doing okay! I am okay too. Here are some pictures taken by Jack Beers. Sincerely yours, Michael
(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/020.jpg)
(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/Picture_35~1.jpg)
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For almost sixty years Detective Jim Leavelle stated that he jerked Mr. Oswald back and to his left by holding his hand inside Mr. Oswald's pants and on his belt. Actually, Detective Leavelle did not do anything because he was not looking to his left, and he did not have enough time to react. When he did have time to do his job, he was a dirty cop. He helped Captain Will Fritz create the narrative to frame Mr. Oswald. Detective Leavelle was the man who interviewed Miss Vicki Adams and added the element of seeing Mr. Shelley and Mr. Lovelady on the first floor. A fact that was denied by her and Miss Sandra Styles, and pretty much by Lovelady and Shelley as well. Sincerely yours, Michael
In her WC deposition, Victoria Adams repeated the story of seeing Mr. Shelley and Mr. Lovelady on the first floor. She viewed a copy of the transcript of that deposition and notated it for grammar corrections and then signed it. Leavelle was not a dirty cop. He was an honorable man. Your cheap shot at him reflects poorly of your own morality.
(https://i.imgur.com/i1XhwUp.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/i6Edb8x.jpg)
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Hi Tim, How have you been doing? According to Vicki she said she did not say that in her Warren Commission testimony. She said that they inserted it. Notice her testimony was Top Secret. Why? Thank you for everything, Sincerely yours, Michael
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Leavelle was not a dirty cop. He was an honorable man.
What kind of honorable man shows up at somebody's private residence at night unannounced and lies to her about there being a fire at the station that destroyed her earlier statements?
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Hi Tim, How have you been doing? According to Vicki she said she did not say that in her Warren Commission testimony. She said that they inserted it. Notice her testimony was Top Secret. Why? Thank you for everything, Sincerely yours, Michael
Tim doesn't know that she saw the page that mentions Lovelady and Shelley or that she was the one who wrote the single word "there" on that page.
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Hi John, How have you been doing? It is good to see you are still here! I know about and agree with your statements. And don't forget Detective Leavelle's: we handled the President's assassination like a south Dallas Nword killing. Thank you for everything, Sincerely yours, Michael
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Hi Tim, How have you been doing? According to Vicki she said she did not say that in her Warren Commission testimony. She said that they inserted it. Notice her testimony was Top Secret. Why? Thank you for everything, Sincerely yours, Michael
I'm doing fine Michael. I hope you're fairing well yourself. Vicki was wrong. She viewed that page, as is evidenced by her marking "there" on it? Barry Ernest admitted that it's her handwriting on it. The encounter with Lovelady and Shelley is mentioned on another page as well. The Top Secret designation was not unique to her deposition.
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What kind of honorable man shows up at somebody's private residence at night unannounced and lies to her about there being a fire at the station that destroyed her earlier statements?
Never happened.
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Hi Tim, How have you been doing? According to Vicki she said she did not say that in her Warren Commission testimony. She said that they inserted it. Notice her testimony was Top Secret. Why? Thank you for everything, Sincerely yours, Michael
A. Even though Miss Adams waived her right to examine her testimony (as indicated in her deposition), a copy was hand-delivered to her office for her to examine, which she did, notated some spelling and grammar errors, and then signed. (Perhaps this was done to put on record the fact she had seen her testimony prior to publication.) None of her corrections involved the timing issue, however, which in the original stenographer's copy of her testimony is shown as "Between 15 and 30 seconds, estimated, approximately." In my interviews with her, she said the gentleman who delivered the copy of her testimony "stood over" her, watching intently as she made the corrections, which you can see in her handwriting in the original testimony. None of those corrections involved the "15 and 30 seconds" passage, and she did not make the trek to the U.S. attorney's office to make the changes.
https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/17359-new-book-on-victoria-adams-by-author-barry-ernest/page/3/#comment-224163
(https://i.imgur.com/i1XhwUp.png)
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Hi Tim, I am happy that you are doing fine. I am fine too. On Mr. Barry Ernest's wordpress page he says this:
"William Shelley and Billy Lovelady, of course, are the most critical since the Commission used their words to discredit Vicki. In her testimony, Vicki is quoted as saying she saw those two on the first floor when she arrived there within a minute after the assassination. But how could that be if she came down that fast and both men testified they remained outside for several minutes following the shooting? Vicki contends she did not say she saw them, and the Shelley/Lovelady passage was inserted into a later transcript of her testimony to make her appear wrong. Certainly the Commission’s unstudied conclusion that Vicki was confused and descended later than she thought avoided having to explain why she didn’t see or hear anyone on the same stairs when, if she was indeed accurate with her timing, Oswald should have been there."
"James Leavelle interviewed Vicki on the night of February 17, 1964, under suspicious circumstances. He told her, for instance, he was there because a fire at police headquarters had destroyed Vicki’s earlier file. Despite previous questioning by several different authorities, this was the first time—now three months after the assassination—in which Vicki mentions the names Shelley and Lovelady."
"After descending the stairs Vicki went out the rear door, then in a few moments returned to the front entrance. There, she noticed Joe Molina. Since Molina testified he only briefly remained outside before going back to work, Vicki’s sighting of him lends support for her swift descent, exit, and return to the building. Molina, who was questioned late in the afternoon that day, should have been asked about Vicki since, during her earlier session, she specifically brought up his name, and Molina was being questioned about who he saw while standing outside. (Also at the front entrance, Vicki spotted and actually conversed with another employee, Avery Davis, who likely was spared the same fate as those above since she was never examined by the Commission.) The evidence remains consistent with Vicki coming down the stairs exactly as she testified. Therefore, if she really did say in her testimony that she saw Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor, then those men lied under oath for some reason about remaining outside. But if she really didn’t say she saw them, then her testimony was falsified. That’s why the first-generation stenotype tape is so important." The stenotype tape of that particular day is missing. Sincerely yours, Michael
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Hi Tim, I am happy that you are doing fine. I am fine too. On Mr. Barry Ernest's wordpress page he says this:
"William Shelley and Billy Lovelady, of course, are the most critical since the Commission used their words to discredit Vicki. In her testimony, Vicki is quoted as saying she saw those two on the first floor when she arrived there within a minute after the assassination. But how could that be if she came down that fast and both men testified they remained outside for several minutes following the shooting? Vicki contends she did not say she saw them, and the Shelley/Lovelady passage was inserted into a later transcript of her testimony to make her appear wrong. Certainly the Commission’s unstudied conclusion that Vicki was confused and descended later than she thought avoided having to explain why she didn’t see or hear anyone on the same stairs when, if she was indeed accurate with her timing, Oswald should have been there."
"James Leavelle interviewed Vicki on the night of February 17, 1964, under suspicious circumstances. He told her, for instance, he was there because a fire at police headquarters had destroyed Vicki’s earlier file. Despite previous questioning by several different authorities, this was the first time—now three months after the assassination—in which Vicki mentions the names Shelley and Lovelady."
"After descending the stairs Vicki went out the rear door, then in a few moments returned to the front entrance. There, she noticed Joe Molina. Since Molina testified he only briefly remained outside before going back to work, Vicki’s sighting of him lends support for her swift descent, exit, and return to the building. Molina, who was questioned late in the afternoon that day, should have been asked about Vicki since, during her earlier session, she specifically brought up his name, and Molina was being questioned about who he saw while standing outside. (Also at the front entrance, Vicki spotted and actually conversed with another employee, Avery Davis, who likely was spared the same fate as those above since she was never examined by the Commission.) The evidence remains consistent with Vicki coming down the stairs exactly as she testified. Therefore, if she really did say in her testimony that she saw Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor, then those men lied under oath for some reason about remaining outside. But if she really didn’t say she saw them, then her testimony was falsified. That’s why the first-generation stenotype tape is so important." The stenotype tape of that particular day is missing. Sincerely yours, Michael
Vicki mentioned the encounter with Lovelady and Shelly twice during her deposition. She was wrong in stating decades later that the encounter was inserted in the transcript of her testimony. She viewed one of the pages that has the encounter on it. The encounter with Lovelady and Shelly rules out an early descent by her. Even without that encounter, an early descent by her is highly improbable due to the fact that she never met Baker and Truly on her way down. I mean, think about that. The story about Leavelle lying to her is not believable.
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Hi Tim. Of course I am going to disagree with you. Detective Leavelle took a lot of statements, and he was very smart. I really think he knew what was needed to help frame Oswald, and he wasn't afraid to do it. According to Barry Ernest, Officer Marrion Baker, Miss Sandra Styles, and Miss Vicki Adams all said that they did not see Bill Shelley or Billy Lovelady on the first floor. They all only saw a large black man on the first floor. My best guess is they all three saw Mr. Troy West. Sincerely yours, Michael
"Oddly, Armstrong completely ignores the one man all three individuals—Miss Adams, Miss Styles, and Officer Baker—independently told me they noticed near those elevators: a large black man. That is the only person Vicki said she saw and spoke to, not Shelley or Lovelady. That is the only person Miss Styles observed, not Shelley or Lovelady or the police. And that is the same man Baker told me he was about to confront, a la Oswald seconds later on the second floor, until Truly told him the black man was an employee."
In this Darnell frame, it appears that both Vicki and Sandra have made it down the stairs and out the back of the TSBD; and are headed back in the front entrance of the TSBD just after Marrion Baker has gone in. They are the two ladies on the right side a few steps up under the lady with her right arm shielding her eyes[Pauline Sanders]. Vicki said she saw Joe Molina on the front steps, and he is still there on the right side in the white shirt one step down from the top.
(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/20130908-003704.jpg)
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Never happened.
And you know this how? Because he was an "honorable man"? Sounds circular. Victoria Adams was an honorable woman.
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Vicki mentioned the encounter with Lovelady and Shelly twice during her deposition. She was wrong in stating decades later that the encounter was inserted in the transcript of her testimony. She viewed one of the pages that has the encounter on it. The encounter with Lovelady and Shelly rules out an early descent by her. Even without that encounter, an early descent by her is highly improbable due to the fact that she never met Baker and Truly on her way down. I mean, think about that. The story about Leavelle lying to her is not believable.
In his HSCA interview, Lovelady states he did not re-enter the TSBD building for 20 to 25 minutes.
This explains why he is filmed outside the building by both Hughes and Martin some 10 - 15 minutes after the assassination.
As such he could not have been at the bottom of the stairs when Adams and Styles descended and it would appear that Adams' statements to this effect have been falsified.
It is an unequivocal example of the corruption involved in the WC investigation.
Lovelady's clumsy blurting out of Vicki's name during his testimony is a clear case of pre-coaching specifically designed to create a specific narrative.
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In his HSCA interview, Lovelady states he did not re-enter the TSBD building for 20 to 25 minutes.
This explains why he is filmed outside the building by both Hughes and Martin some 10 - 15 minutes after the assassination.
As such he could not have been at the bottom of the stairs when Adams and Styles descended and it would appear that Adams' statements to this effect have been falsified.
It is an unequivocal example of the corruption involved in the WC investigation.
Lovelady's clumsy blurting out of Vicki's name during his testimony is a clear case of pre-coaching specifically designed to create a specific narrative.
"Lovelady's clumsy blurting out of Vicki's name during his testimony is a clear case of pre-coaching specifically designed to create a specific narrative."
Yes, you're sooo right.... LBJ's "Special select committee" had an agenda ..... And it wasn't to deliver the truth to the American people. ( LBJ referred to the American people as " piss ants".....
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Lovelady's clumsy blurting out of Vicki's name during his testimony is a clear case of pre-coaching specifically designed to create a specific narrative.
Absolutely. And I think they “pre-interviewed” every witness off the record.
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Lovelady's admission that he didn't re-enter the TSBD building for 20 to 25 minutes is of immense interest (to me at least)
It demonstrates Vicki Adams' WC testimony was indeed altered, which she insisted was the case to Barry Ernest. The enormity of this, in regards to the integrity of the WC hearings, cannot be under-estimated.
It removes the only obstacle in respect of Adams' insistence that she and Styles rushed from the 4th floor window within seconds of the shooting, which has the knock-on effect of placing Dorothy Garner in the area of the starwell, in a perfect position to see Oswald supposedly rushing down the stairs for his rendezvous with Truly and Baker. But she doesn't see Oswald rushing by because it never happened and is just one piece of evidence supporting the view that Oswald never took the shots that day.
Also of interest (TMAL) are the lies Lovelady and Shelley tell in respect to their movements in the immediate aftermath of the assassination. In their same-day affidavits both men 'lie by omission'. Their statements give the unavoidable impression that immediately after the shooting they both re-entered the building through the main entrance. There is no mention of them walking to the west of the building, watching the activity around the rail road yard then entering the building through the little known and permanently unguarded west door.
In their WC testimonies both men tell exactly the same lie when they state they see Truly and Baker approaching the bottom of the TSBD steps at least 3 minutes after the shooting. It is a brazen and easily refuted lie. The WC knew damn well Truly and Baker were at the steps seconds after the last shot but never challenged Lovelady or Shelley on this blatant falsehood.
And then we find out that Lovelady didn't re-enter the building for 20 to 25 minutes.
Why were they lying about their movements and what were they trying to achieve with these lies.
If they were just innocent men going about their business why do they need to lie and what are they covering up.
My reading is that they are trying to cover their tracks regarding what they were doing at the west door.
In their same-day affidavits both men completely omit that they were at the west door at all. It is the immediate aftermath of the assassination of the president of the United states and they are being asked to give an account of their movements but they lie about it. They leave out an important aspect of their movements to give the impression they re-entered the building through the front entrance and not the west door.
The unbelievable lie both men tell the WC about how long it took Truly and Baker (3 minutes) to reach the steps, at first seems bizarre and pointless. The only effect it has is to delay how long it apparently took for them to reach the west door. It is my belief they were at the west door within one to two minutes after the assassination.
Lovelady's HSCA admission leaves us with this final picture - in the immediate aftermath of the shooting both men make their way to the west of the building. Shelley enters the building at this point but Lovelady does not, he is filmed outside the front of the building by Martin and Hughes approximately 10 to 15 minutes after the assassination.
I believe Shelley is back near the front entrance by the time Sawyer arrives @12:34 PM but what is Lovelady doing? Why do they go to the west door? Why do they split up? Why do they go to extraorinary lengths to cover this up?
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Lovelady's admission that he didn't re-enter the TSBD building for 20 to 25 minutes is of immense interest (to me at least)
It demonstrates Vicki Adams' WC testimony was indeed altered, which she insisted was the case to Barry Ernest. The enormity of this, in regards to the integrity of the WC hearings, cannot be under-estimated.
It removes the only obstacle in respect of Adams' insistence that she and Styles rushed from the 4th floor window within seconds of the shooting, which has the knock-on effect of placing Dorothy Garner in the area of the starwell, in a perfect position to see Oswald supposedly rushing down the stairs for his rendezvous with Truly and Baker. But she doesn't see Oswald rushing by because it never happened and is just one piece of evidence supporting the view that Oswald never took the shots that day.
Also of interest (TMAL) are the lies Lovelady and Shelley tell in respect to their movements in the immediate aftermath of the assassination. In their same-day affidavits both men 'lie by omission'. Their statements give the unavoidable impression that immediately after the shooting they both re-entered the building through the main entrance. There is no mention of them walking to the west of the building, watching the activity around the rail road yard then entering the building through the little known and permanently unguarded west door.
In their WC testimonies both men tell exactly the same lie when they state they see Truly and Baker approaching the bottom of the TSBD steps at least 3 minutes after the shooting. It is a brazen and easily refuted lie. The WC knew damn well Truly and Baker were at the steps seconds after the last shot but never challenged Lovelady or Shelley on this blatant falsehood.
And then we find out that Lovelady didn't re-enter the building for 20 to 25 minutes.
Why were they lying about their movements and what were they trying to achieve with these lies.
If they were just innocent men going about their business why do they need to lie and what are they covering up.
My reading is that they are trying to cover their tracks regarding what they were doing at the west door.
In their same-day affidavits both men completely omit that they were at the west door at all. It is the immediate aftermath of the assassination of the president of the United states and they are being asked to give an account of their movements but they lie about it. They leave out an important aspect of their movements to give the impression they re-entered the building through the front entrance and not the west door.
The unbelievable lie both men tell the WC about how long it took Truly and Baker (3 minutes) to reach the steps, at first seems bizarre and pointless. The only effect it has is to delay how long it apparently took for them to reach the west door. It is my belief they were at the west door within one to two minutes after the assassination.
Lovelady's HSCA admission leaves us with this final picture - in the immediate aftermath of the shooting both men make their way to the west of the building. Shelley enters the building at this point but Lovelady does not, he is filmed outside the front of the building by Martin and Hughes approximately 10 to 15 minutes after the assassination.
I believe Shelley is back near the front entrance by the time Sawyer arrives @12:34 PM but what is Lovelady doing? Why do they go to the west door? Why do they split up? Why do they go to extraorinary lengths to cover this up?
I believe Shelley and Lovelady were just a couple of dolts who lied for no good reason..... as you said "pointless and bizarre"
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I believe Shelley and Lovelady were just a couple of dolts who lied for no good reason..... as you said "pointless and bizarre"
You couldn't be more wrong Walt.
The lies of Shelley and Lovelady are co-ordinated and take place over various statements.
In their same day affidavits both men conveniently omit that they went to the west of the building and entered through the west door.
Both men give the distinct impression they went back in through the front entrance immediately after the assassination.
In their WC testimonies both men tell the outrageous lie that Truly and Baker didn't reach the TSBD steps for at least 3 minutes. This delays their arrival at the west door 5 to 7 minutes after the assassination.
We now know that Lovelady didn't even enter the west door at that time and, as revealed in his HSCA interview and the films of Hughes/Martin, did not enter the TSBD building for 20 to 25 minutes after the assassination.
This leaves Shelley lying his arse off in his WC testimony. Note the use of the word "we":
Mr. Ball: What did you and Billy Lovelady do?
Mr. SHELLEY: We walked on down to the first railroad track there on the dead-end street and stood there and watched them searching cars down there in the parking lots for a little while and then we came in through our parking lot at the west end.
Mr. Ball: At the west end?
Mr. Shelley: Yes; and then in the side door into the shipping room.
"...we came in through our paking lot at the west end."
Here, Shelley is saying both he and Lovelady entered the building through the west door.
Mr. Shelley: I saw Eddie Piper.
Mr. Ball: What was he doing?
Mr. Shelley: He was coming back from where he was watching the motorcade in the southwest corner of the shipping room.
Mr. Ball: Of the first floor of the building?
Mr. Shelley: Yes.
Mr. Ball: Who else did you see?
Mr. Shelley: That's all we saw immediately.
"That's all we saw immediately"
Here Shelley is still insisting he and Lovelady were together when they first entered the TSBD. More than that, Shelley is speaking for Lovelady as to what he saw when he entered the building. How does Shelley know that's all Lovelady saw as well, unless it's a co-ordinated lie.
Mr. Ball: Did you ever see Vickie Adams?
Mr. Shelley: I saw her that day but I don't remember where I saw her.
Mr. Ball: You don't remember whether you saw her when you came back?
Mr. Shelley: It was after we entered the building.
Once again, Shelley is peddling the lie they both entered the building together.
If you think this is just two morons lying for no good reason you are entitled to that opinion but I most certainly do not share it.
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You couldn't be more wrong Walt.
The lies of Shelley and Lovelady are co-ordinated and take place over various statements.
In their same day affidavits both men conveniently omit that they went to the west of the building and entered through the west door.
Both men give the distinct impression they went back in through the front entrance immediately after the assassination.
In their WC testimonies both men tell the outrageous lie that Truly and Baker didn't reach the TSBD steps for at least 3 minutes. This delays their arrival at the west door 5 to 7 minutes after the assassination.
We now know that Lovelady didn't even enter the west door at that time and, as revealed in his HSCA interview and the films of Hughes/Martin, did not enter the TSBD building for 20 to 25 minutes after the assassination.
This leaves Shelley lying his arse off in his WC testimony. Note the use of the word "we":
Mr. Ball: What did you and Billy Lovelady do?
Mr. SHELLEY: We walked on down to the first railroad track there on the dead-end street and stood there and watched them searching cars down there in the parking lots for a little while and then we came in through our parking lot at the west end.
Mr. Ball: At the west end?
Mr. Shelley: Yes; and then in the side door into the shipping room.
"...we came in through our paking lot at the west end."
Here, Shelley is saying both he and Lovelady entered the building through the west door.
Mr. Shelley: I saw Eddie Piper.
Mr. Ball: What was he doing?
Mr. Shelley: He was coming back from where he was watching the motorcade in the southwest corner of the shipping room.
Mr. Ball: Of the first floor of the building?
Mr. Shelley: Yes.
Mr. Ball: Who else did you see?
Mr. Shelley: That's all we saw immediately.
"That's all we saw immediately"
Here Shelley is still insisting he and Lovelady were together when they first entered the TSBD. More than that, Shelley is speaking for Lovelady as to what he saw when he entered the building. How does Shelley know that's all Lovelady saw as well, unless it's a co-ordinated lie.
Mr. Ball: Did you ever see Vickie Adams?
Mr. Shelley: I saw her that day but I don't remember where I saw her.
Mr. Ball: You don't remember whether you saw her when you came back?
Mr. Shelley: It was after we entered the building.
Once again, Shelley is peddling the lie they both entered the building together.
If you think this is just two morons lying for no good reason you are entitled to that opinion but I most certainly do not share it.
Hi Dan, I'm not much interested in Shelley And Lovelady's stories...... But, What do you think their reason was for lying right "off the bat"?
The lies of Shelley and Lovelady are co-ordinated and take place over various statements.
In their same day affidavits both men conveniently omit that they went to the west of the building and entered through the west door.
Do you think they conspired in creating the lie before they wrote their affidavits?
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Hi Dan and Walt, Thank you both for your great input! Have either of you seen the pictures of I think August 23, 1963, where there is a guy who is not dressed in Cuban style dress--white shirt and dark pants; but has a brown suit on like Shelley in New Orleans. Sincerely yours, Michael
(https://harveyandlee.net/TSBD_Elevator/2_shelleys.jpg)
(https://harveyandlee.net/TSBD_Elevator/3_shelleys.jpg)
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Hi Dan, I'm not much interested in Shelley And Lovelady's stories......
Your curiosity knows no bounds Walt.
A murder has occurred and these two guys are telling co-ordinated lies about their movements in the immediate aftermath of the murder and your not interested.
Great stuff.
But, What do you think their was reason for lying right "off the bat"?
I strongly suspect the MC was not the assassination weapon, that it was already tucked away in its "hiding place" while the assassination was happening. Its sole purpose was to put Oswald in the frame for the shooting.
Unlike you, I believe three shots were taken from the SN window. If it is the case a "proper" rifle was used for the assassination it leaves the problem of getting this rifle out of the building before a search could begin.
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Hi Dan and Walt, Thank you both for your great input! Have either of you seen the pictures of I think August 23, 1963, where there is a guy who is not dressed in Cuban style dress--white shirt and dark pants; but has a brown suit on like Shelley in New Orleans. Sincerely yours, Michael
(https://harveyandlee.net/TSBD_Elevator/2_shelleys.jpg)
(https://harveyandlee.net/TSBD_Elevator/3_shelleys.jpg)
I believe the pictures show Shelley in New Orleans.
Less than one month later Oswald is working directly under Shelley at the TSBD.
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Your curiosity knows no bounds Walt.
A murder has occurred and these two guys are telling co-ordinated lies about their movements in the immediate aftermath of the murder and your not interested.
Great stuff.
I strongly suspect the MC was not the assassination weapon, that it was already tucked away in its "hiding place" while the assassination was happening. Its sole purpose was to put Oswald in the frame for the shooting.
Unlike you, I believe three shots were taken from the SN window. If it is the case a "proper" rifle was used for the assassination it leaves the problem of getting this rifle out of the building before a search could begin.
A murder has occurred and these two guys are telling co-ordinated lies about their movements in the immediate aftermath of the murder and your not interested.
Great stuff.
If Shelley and Lovelady had their lies coordinated just minutes after the shooting then it's very likely that they were part of the conspiracy..... And I seriously doubt that they were part of the plot to murder JFK. They would have been willing to lie if Mr Truly wanted them to but.......
.I strongly suspect the MC was not the assassination weapon, that it was already tucked away in its "hiding place" while the assassination was happening. Its sole purpose was to put Oswald in the frame for the shooting.
I'm in complete agreement with you on this point..... And there are photos and statements of those who were in the NW corner and saw the carcano that verify our observations are accurate.
Of course you realize that this information directly contradicts the vaunted FBI..... Who are on record as saying that the carcano was the murder weapon.
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I believe the pictures show Shelley in New Orleans.
Less than one month later Oswald is working directly under Shelley at the TSBD.
Hi Dan, I agree. Thank you for your insight! Here are a few more pictures that show that nose of Shelley's better! Sincerely yours, Michael
(http://i.imgur.com/AfU01BW.jpg)