JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Charles Collins on April 07, 2020, 01:42:47 PM
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Journalist Jean Daniel was with Fidel Castro when JFK was assassinated. Even though they had conversed the previous night from 10 pm until 4 am. Here is a quote of Castro from the all-night session:
“Kennedy could still be this man. He still has the possibility of becoming, in the eyes of history, the greatest President of the United States, the leader who may at last understand that there can be coexistence between capitalists and socialists, even in the Americas. He would then be an even greater President than Lincoln. I know, for example, that for Khrushchev, Kennedy is a man you can talk with. I have gotten this impression from all my conversations with Khrushchev. Other leaders have assured me that to attain this goal, we must first await his re-election. Personally, I consider him responsible for everything, but I will say this: he has come to understand many things over the past few months; and then too, in the last analysis, I’m convinced that anyone else would be worse.” Then Fidel had added with a broad and boyish grin: “If you see him again, you can tell him that I’m willing to declare Goldwater my friend if that will guarantee Kennedy’s re-election!”
https://www.google.com/amp/s/newrepublic.com/amp/article/120460/fidel-castro-reaction-kennedy-assassination-cuba
Fidel Castro reportedly knew that the Kennedy brothers were trying to assassinate him and overthrow his regime. In my opinion, this was deliberate smoke to cover that he knew an assassination attempt was going to happen the next day. I can’t imagine that he actually meant this...
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Journalist Jean Daniel was with Fidel Castro when JFK was assassinated. Even though they had conversed the previous night from 10 pm until 4 am. Here is a quote of Castro from the all-night session:
“Kennedy could still be this man. He still has the possibility of becoming, in the eyes of history, the greatest President of the United States, the leader who may at last understand that there can be coexistence between capitalists and socialists, even in the Americas. He would then be an even greater President than Lincoln. I know, for example, that for Khrushchev, Kennedy is a man you can talk with. I have gotten this impression from all my conversations with Khrushchev. Other leaders have assured me that to attain this goal, we must first await his re-election. Personally, I consider him responsible for everything, but I will say this: he has come to understand many things over the past few months; and then too, in the last analysis, I’m convinced that anyone else would be worse.” Then Fidel had added with a broad and boyish grin: “If you see him again, you can tell him that I’m willing to declare Goldwater my friend if that will guarantee Kennedy’s re-election!”
https://www.google.com/amp/s/newrepublic.com/amp/article/120460/fidel-castro-reaction-kennedy-assassination-cuba
Fidel Castro reportedly knew that the Kennedy brothers were trying to assassinate him and overthrow his regime. In my opinion, this was deliberate smoke to cover that he knew an assassination attempt was going to happen the next day. I can’t imagine that he actually meant this...
I'll disagree that it was some sort of "smokescreen" or ruse to cover for his knowledge about the assassination - I think Oswald acted on his own volition - but I do agree that Castro was not exactly saddened over JFK's death. The radical publications that Oswald read were filled with stories quoting Castro's condemnation of JFK and the White House's policies towards Cuba.
And remember that just about one year before this - in October of 1962 - Castro communicated with Khrushchev during the missile crisis and begged him to launch his (Khrushchev's) nuclear missiles at the US. Here is Khrushchev's account about receiving the message:
"He [Castro] proposed that to prevent destruction of our missile installations, we should immediately strike first, dealing a [preemptive] thermonuclear blow to the United States.
"When this message was read aloud to us, we sat there in silence, looking at one another for a long time. It became clear at that point that Fidel absolutely did not understand our intentions. He assumed....that we wanted to use Cuban territory as a base right up next to the United States to install our missiles and to strike a blow at the United States with those missiles. It's true of course that that was a very good forward position from which to strike a sudden surprise blow with missiles. But we
absolutely never wanted to make such a strike." -Memoirs of Nikita Khrushchev, Volume 3. pg. 341
I don't think that in a year that Castro's hatred towards the "imperialists" completely changed to the point that he was depressed over JFK's death.
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Journalist Jean Daniel was with Fidel Castro when JFK was assassinated. Even though they had conversed the previous night from 10 pm until 4 am. Here is a quote of Castro from the all-night session:
“Kennedy could still be this man. He still has the possibility of becoming, in the eyes of history, the greatest President of the United States, the leader who may at last understand that there can be coexistence between capitalists and socialists, even in the Americas. He would then be an even greater President than Lincoln. I know, for example, that for Khrushchev, Kennedy is a man you can talk with. I have gotten this impression from all my conversations with Khrushchev. Other leaders have assured me that to attain this goal, we must first await his re-election. Personally, I consider him responsible for everything, but I will say this: he has come to understand many things over the past few months; and then too, in the last analysis, I’m convinced that anyone else would be worse.” Then Fidel had added with a broad and boyish grin: “If you see him again, you can tell him that I’m willing to declare Goldwater my friend if that will guarantee Kennedy’s re-election!”
https://www.google.com/amp/s/newrepublic.com/amp/article/120460/fidel-castro-reaction-kennedy-assassination-cuba
Fidel Castro reportedly knew that the Kennedy brothers were trying to assassinate him and overthrow his regime. In my opinion, this was deliberate smoke to cover that he knew an assassination attempt was going to happen the next day. I can’t imagine that he actually meant this...
I can’t imagine that he actually meant this...
So on one hand you acknowledge that the assassination was a conspiracy.....( when you say that Castro knew an assassination attempt was going to happen) while on the other hand you think that Lee Oswald was just a lone nut who acted alone.....
I must say, you're not a very rational thinker.
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I'll disagree that it was some sort of "smokescreen" or ruse to cover for his knowledge about the assassination - I think Oswald acted on his own volition - but I do agree that Castro was not exactly saddened over JFK's death. The radical publications that Oswald read were filled with stories quoting Castro's condemnation of JFK and the White House's policies towards Cuba.
And remember that just about one year before this - in October of 1962 - Castro communicated with Khrushchev during the missile crisis and begged him to launch his (Khrushchev's) nuclear missiles at the US. Here is Khrushchev's account about receiving the message:
"He [Castro] proposed that to prevent destruction of our missile installations, we should immediately strike first, dealing a [preemptive] thermonuclear blow to the United States.
"When this message was read aloud to us, we sat there in silence, looking at one another for a long time. It became clear at that point that Fidel absolutely did not understand our intentions. He assumed....that we wanted to use Cuban territory as a base right up next to the United States to install our missiles and to strike a blow at the United States with those missiles. It's true of course that that was a very good forward position from which to strike a sudden surprise blow with missiles. But we
absolutely never wanted to make such a strike." -Memoirs of Nikita Khrushchev, Volume 3. pg. 341
I don't think that in a year that Castro's hatred towards the "imperialists" completely changed to the point that he was depressed over JFK's death.
Castro was like many politicians, and sometimes said things that just weren’t true. Here’s a continuation of Jean Daniel’s article:
Now it was nearly 2 o’clock and we got up from the table and settled ourselves in front of a radio. Commandant Vallero, his physician, aide-de-camp, and intimate friend, was easily able to get the broadcasts from the NBC network in Miami. As the news came in, Vallero would translate it for Fidel: Kennedy wounded in the head; pursuit of the assassin; murder of a policeman; finally the fatal announcement: President Kennedy is dead. Then Fidel stood up and said to me: “Everything is changed. Everything is going to change. The United States occupies such a position in world affairs that the death of a President of that country affects millions of people in every corner of the globe. The cold war, relations with Russia, Latin America, Cuba, the Negro question… all will have to be rethought. I’ll tell you one thing: at least Kennedy was an enemy to whom we had become accustomed. This is a serious matter, an extremely serious matter.”
After the quarter-hour of silence observed by all the American radio stations, we once more tuned in on Miami; the silence had only been broken by a re-broadcasting of the American national anthem. Strange indeed was the impression made, on hearing this hymn ring out in the house of Fidel Castro, in the midst of a circle of worried faces. “Now,” Fidel said, “they will have to find the assassin quickly, but very quickly, otherwise, you watch and see, I know them, they will try to put the blame on us for this thing. But tell me, how many Presidents have been assassinated? Four? This is most disturbing! In Cuba, only one has been assassinated. You know, when we were hiding out in the Sierra there were some (not in my group, in another) who wanted to kill Batista. They thought they could do away with a regime by decapitating it. I have always been violently opposed to such methods. First of all from the viewpoint of political self-interest, because so far as Cuba is concerned, if Batista had been killed he would have been replaced by some military figure who would have tried to make the revolutionists pay for the martyrdom of the dictator. But I was also opposed to it on personal grounds; assassination is repellent to me.”
The real Fidel Castro:
Quote from “Guerrilla Prince” by Georgie Anne Geyer:
“Fidel made his debut in Cuban politics by organizing the demonstration against Grau and his supposedly innocent increase in the bus fares. ...
...At this point, Fidel suddenly whispered to his coconspirators, "I have the formula to take power and once and for all get rid of this old son-of-a-As I was walking a' alane, I heard twa corbies makin' a mane. The tane untae the tither did say, Whaur sail we gang and dine the day, O. Whaur sail we gang and dine the day? It's in ahint yon auld fail dyke I wot there lies a new slain knight; And naebody kens that he lies there But his hawk and his hound, and his lady fair, O. But his hawk and his hound, and his lady fair. His hound is to the hunting gane His hawk to fetch the wild-fowl hame, His lady ta'en anither mate, So we may mak' our dinner swate, O. So we may mak' our dinner swate. Ye'll sit on his white hause-bane, And I'll pike oot his bonny blue e'en Wi' ae lock o' his gowden hair We'll theek oor nest when it grows bare, O. We'll theek oor nest when it grows bare. There's mony a ane for him maks mane But nane sail ken whaur he is gane O'er his white banes when they are bare The wind sail blaw for evermair, O. The wind sail blaw for evermair.'." His comrades were stupefied as he explained, "Now, when the old guy returns, let's pick him up, the four of us, and throw him off the balcony. Once the president is dead, we'll proclaim the triumph of the student revolution and speak to the people from the radio." "Vamos, guajiro, tú estás 'chiflado'" ("Listen, redneck, you're nuts"), Chino Esquivel told him. And when Fidel insisted on his astounding plan, Enrique Ovares finally squelched it by saying, "We came here to ask for a lowering of the fares on the buses, not to commit an assassination." It is important to remember that Grau, for all his faults, was not a dictator but one of Cuba's first democratically elected leaders.”
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Castro was like many politicians, and sometimes said things that just weren’t true. Here’s a continuation of Jean Daniel’s article:
Now it was nearly 2 o’clock and we got up from the table and settled ourselves in front of a radio. Commandant Vallero, his physician, aide-de-camp, and intimate friend, was easily able to get the broadcasts from the NBC network in Miami. As the news came in, Vallero would translate it for Fidel: Kennedy wounded in the head; pursuit of the assassin; murder of a policeman; finally the fatal announcement: President Kennedy is dead. Then Fidel stood up and said to me: “Everything is changed. Everything is going to change. The United States occupies such a position in world affairs that the death of a President of that country affects millions of people in every corner of the globe. The cold war, relations with Russia, Latin America, Cuba, the Negro question… all will have to be rethought. I’ll tell you one thing: at least Kennedy was an enemy to whom we had become accustomed. This is a serious matter, an extremely serious matter.”
After the quarter-hour of silence observed by all the American radio stations, we once more tuned in on Miami; the silence had only been broken by a re-broadcasting of the American national anthem. Strange indeed was the impression made, on hearing this hymn ring out in the house of Fidel Castro, in the midst of a circle of worried faces. “Now,” Fidel said, “they will have to find the assassin quickly, but very quickly, otherwise, you watch and see, I know them, they will try to put the blame on us for this thing. But tell me, how many Presidents have been assassinated? Four? This is most disturbing! In Cuba, only one has been assassinated. You know, when we were hiding out in the Sierra there were some (not in my group, in another) who wanted to kill Batista. They thought they could do away with a regime by decapitating it. I have always been violently opposed to such methods. First of all from the viewpoint of political self-interest, because so far as Cuba is concerned, if Batista had been killed he would have been replaced by some military figure who would have tried to make the revolutionists pay for the martyrdom of the dictator. But I was also opposed to it on personal grounds; assassination is repellent to me.”
The real Fidel Castro:
Quote from “Guerrilla Prince” by Georgie Anne Geyer:
“Fidel made his debut in Cuban politics by organizing the demonstration against Grau and his supposedly innocent increase in the bus fares. ...
...At this point, Fidel suddenly whispered to his coconspirators, "I have the formula to take power and once and for all get rid of this old son-of-a-As I was walking a' alane, I heard twa corbies makin' a mane. The tane untae the tither did say, Whaur sail we gang and dine the day, O. Whaur sail we gang and dine the day? It's in ahint yon auld fail dyke I wot there lies a new slain knight; And naebody kens that he lies there But his hawk and his hound, and his lady fair, O. But his hawk and his hound, and his lady fair. His hound is to the hunting gane His hawk to fetch the wild-fowl hame, His lady ta'en anither mate, So we may mak' our dinner swate, O. So we may mak' our dinner swate. Ye'll sit on his white hause-bane, And I'll pike oot his bonny blue e'en Wi' ae lock o' his gowden hair We'll theek oor nest when it grows bare, O. We'll theek oor nest when it grows bare. There's mony a ane for him maks mane But nane sail ken whaur he is gane O'er his white banes when they are bare The wind sail blaw for evermair, O. The wind sail blaw for evermair.'." His comrades were stupefied as he explained, "Now, when the old guy returns, let's pick him up, the four of us, and throw him off the balcony. Once the president is dead, we'll proclaim the triumph of the student revolution and speak to the people from the radio." "Vamos, guajiro, tú estás 'chiflado'" ("Listen, redneck, you're nuts"), Chino Esquivel told him. And when Fidel insisted on his astounding plan, Enrique Ovares finally squelched it by saying, "We came here to ask for a lowering of the fares on the buses, not to commit an assassination." It is important to remember that Grau, for all his faults, was not a dictator but one of Cuba's first democratically elected leaders.”
Believe it or Not......
"I was also opposed to it on personal grounds; assassination is repellent to me.”...Fidel Castro
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Believe it or Not......
"I was also opposed to it on personal grounds; assassination is repellent to me.”...Fidel Castro
“Now, when the old guy returns, let's pick him up, the four of us, and throw him off the balcony. Once the president is dead, we'll proclaim the triumph of the student revolution and speak to the people from the radio.”
Fidel Castro
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Believe it or Not......
"I was also opposed to it on personal grounds; assassination is repellent to me.”...Fidel Castro
From “Guerrilla Prince” by Georgie Anne Geyer:
“LATE IN THE AFTERNOON one day in December 1946, Fidel suddenly appeared at the door of Rafael Díaz-Balart's apartment in Havana. His clothes were even more disheveled than usual and his face had the expression of a man reeling at the edge. "Rafael, let me in," he blurted out, "I just killed Leonel Gómez." ...
... Only a few weeks before, Rafael recalled, Fidel had told him, as they engaged in one of their endlessly intense conversations about power and political position, that Leonel Gómez and Manolo Castro, two recognized and particularly violent leaders of opposing student gangs, were his "obstacles."
Rafael had shaken his head and disagreed. "No," he told him, "not Manolo. The obstacle is Leonel Gómez, because he is going to win the student federation elections." Fidel agreed and insisted suddenly that an attack had to be prepared on Leonel Gómez, but Rafael never dreamed he would carry out such a harebrained plan. Macho talk like that was cheap at the university of the time. ...
... When the car turned around, the three started to fire wildly and several persons walking below were wounded. But Fidel's eyes gleamed. He was perfectly calm then, he told Rafael. He took aim and he shot. Within minutes, the assassination of Leonel Gómez was announced agitatedly on the radio and Fidel had fled to Rafael's uneasy sanctuary. ...
... For the truth was that Leonel Gómez did not die. Fidel had shot him in the lung, but he survived after some time in the hospital. Gómez gave Fidel's name, as well as that of Chino Esquivel, to the UIR as those responsible for the attack.”
Assassination was Fidel’s middle name!!!
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I don't think that in a year that Castro's hatred towards the "imperialists" completely changed to the point that he was depressed over JFK's death.
Prob scared he'd get the same fate as Hitler and Mussolini if he was blamed for JFKs death.
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Prob scared he'd get the same fate as Hitler and Mussolini if he was blamed for JFKs death.
Castro was not a coward by any stretch of the imagination. Here is what Carlos Franqui says happened on 10/27/62 when the American U-2, piloted by Major Rudolph Anderson was shot down over Cuba:
From “Guerrilla Prince by Georgie Anne Geyer:
“Indeed, on that Saturday, Franqui insists to this day that "Castro drove his jeep to Pinar del Río, and went to one of the Russian rocket bases, where the Soviet generals took him on a tour of their installation. Just at that moment, an American U-2 appeared on a radar screen. Fidel asked how the Soviets would protect themselves in war if that had been an attack plane instead of a reconnaissance plane. The Russians showed him the ground-to-air missiles and said that all they would have to do would be to push a button and the plane would be blown out of the sky. " 'Which button?' Fidel asked. " 'This one,' one of the Russians indicated. "Fidel pushed it and the rocket brought down the U-2. . . . The Russians were flabbergasted, but Fidel simply said, 'Well, now we'll see if there's a war or not.' "
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Castro was not a coward by any stretch of the imagination. Here is what Carlos Franqui says happened on 10/27/62 when the American U-2, piloted by Major Rudolph Anderson was shot down over Cuba:
From “Guerrilla Prince by Georgie Anne Geyer:
“Indeed, on that Saturday, Franqui insists to this day that "Castro drove his jeep to Pinar del Río, and went to one of the Russian rocket bases, where the Soviet generals took him on a tour of their installation. Just at that moment, an American U-2 appeared on a radar screen. Fidel asked how the Soviets would protect themselves in war if that had been an attack plane instead of a reconnaissance plane. The Russians showed him the ground-to-air missiles and said that all they would have to do would be to push a button and the plane would be blown out of the sky. " 'Which button?' Fidel asked. " 'This one,' one of the Russians indicated. "Fidel pushed it and the rocket brought down the U-2. . . . The Russians were flabbergasted, but Fidel simply said, 'Well, now we'll see if there's a war or not.' "
An interesting tale..... Who can confirm that it happened? Can Castro's whereabouts be verified for that day?
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An interesting tale..... Who can confirm that it happened? Can Castro's whereabouts be verified for that day?
The book is mostly anecdotal. Here is what follows:
Despite Franqui's colorful statements, the most credible theory of what actually happened on October 27 is that a Russian commander of one of the missile batteries, most probably without orders from Khrushchev, nervously or by accident shot down the U-2. This was the conclusion of both the Kennedy administration and of the Russians. The Soviets' longtime ambassador to Cuba, Alexander Alexeev, wrote later in TASS, "In reality, as we now know, the plane was hit by the order of a group ... of Soviet troops in Cuba. It was hit by the commander of the group." The Harvard report backs this up; in the confusion of those days — a confusion that included the question of orders, standing or otherwise, from Moscow — the Harvard group concluded that the "local commander who actually gave the order to fire was apparently General Georgy A. Voronkov, now retired and living in Odessa."
I suspect that the Castro pushed the button account is fictitious. But I wouldn’t be surprised if he actually did order the button to be pushed...
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The book is mostly anecdotal. Here is what follows:
Despite Franqui's colorful statements, the most credible theory of what actually happened on October 27 is that a Russian commander of one of the missile batteries, most probably without orders from Khrushchev, nervously or by accident shot down the U-2. This was the conclusion of both the Kennedy administration and of the Russians. The Soviets' longtime ambassador to Cuba, Alexander Alexeev, wrote later in TASS, "In reality, as we now know, the plane was hit by the order of a group ... of Soviet troops in Cuba. It was hit by the commander of the group." The Harvard report backs this up; in the confusion of those days — a confusion that included the question of orders, standing or otherwise, from Moscow — the Harvard group concluded that the "local commander who actually gave the order to fire was apparently General Georgy A. Voronkov, now retired and living in Odessa."
I suspect that the Castro pushed the button account is fictitious. But I wouldn’t be surprised if he actually did order the button to be pushed...
I suspect that the Castro pushed the button account is fictitious.
Yes, I agree....a tale of fiction.... So why did you post this......"Castro was not a coward by any stretch of the imagination."
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I suspect that the Castro pushed the button account is fictitious.
Yes, I agree....a tale of fiction.... So why did you post this......"Castro was not a coward by any stretch of the imagination."
Just because I suspect that it is stretching the truth a little, doesn’t mean that it didn’t happen that way. And if he ordered the button pushed, as I suspect, it took courage to do that.
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Just because I suspect that it is stretching the truth a little, doesn’t mean that it didn’t happen that way. And if he ordered the button pushed, as I suspect, it took courage to do that.
OK Charlie..... It's fun to believe fairy tales. But Castro did NOT control the Russian troops, or the missiles.
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OK Charlie..... It's fun to believe fairy tales. But Castro did NOT control the Russian troops, or the missiles.
Not for very long:
Another quote from “Guerrilla Prince” by Georgie Anne Geyer:
“As the missiles were leaving his island, Castro's tongue exploded with every scatological and cursing word he could grasp for. He railed at Khrushchev to the editors of Revolución, screaming, "Son of a As I was walking a' alane, I heard twa corbies makin' a mane. The tane untae the tither did say, Whaur sail we gang and dine the day, O. Whaur sail we gang and dine the day? It's in ahint yon auld fail dyke I wot there lies a new slain knight; And naebody kens that he lies there But his hawk and his hound, and his lady fair, O. But his hawk and his hound, and his lady fair. His hound is to the hunting gane His hawk to fetch the wild-fowl hame, His lady ta'en anither mate, So we may mak' our dinner swate, O. So we may mak' our dinner swate. Ye'll sit on his white hause-bane, And I'll pike oot his bonny blue e'en Wi' ae lock o' his gowden hair We'll theek oor nest when it grows bare, O. We'll theek oor nest when it grows bare. There's mony a ane for him maks mane But nane sail ken whaur he is gane O'er his white banes when they are bare The wind sail blaw for evermair, O. The wind sail blaw for evermair.'! Bastard! Asshole!" Later he would call Khrushchev a "maricón," or homosexual.“
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Not for very long:
Another quote from “Guerrilla Prince” by Georgie Anne Geyer:
“As the missiles were leaving his island, Castro's tongue exploded with every scatological and cursing word he could grasp for. He railed at Khrushchev to the editors of Revolución, screaming, "Son of a As I was walking a' alane, I heard twa corbies makin' a mane. The tane untae the tither did say, Whaur sail we gang and dine the day, O. Whaur sail we gang and dine the day? It's in ahint yon auld fail dyke I wot there lies a new slain knight; And naebody kens that he lies there But his hawk and his hound, and his lady fair, O. But his hawk and his hound, and his lady fair. His hound is to the hunting gane His hawk to fetch the wild-fowl hame, His lady ta'en anither mate, So we may mak' our dinner swate, O. So we may mak' our dinner swate. Ye'll sit on his white hause-bane, And I'll pike oot his bonny blue e'en Wi' ae lock o' his gowden hair We'll theek oor nest when it grows bare, O. We'll theek oor nest when it grows bare. There's mony a ane for him maks mane But nane sail ken whaur he is gane O'er his white banes when they are bare The wind sail blaw for evermair, O. The wind sail blaw for evermair.'! Bastard! Asshole!" Later he would call Khrushchev a "maricón," or homosexual.“
He railed at Khrushchev to the editors of Revolución, screaming, "Son of a As I was walking a' alane, I heard twa corbies makin' a mane. The tane untae the tither did say, Whaur sail we gang and dine the day, O. Whaur sail we gang and dine the day? It's in ahint yon auld fail dyke I wot there lies a new slain knight; And naebody kens that he lies there But his hawk and his hound, and his lady fair, O. But his hawk and his hound, and his lady fair. His hound is to the hunting gane His hawk to fetch the wild-fowl hame, His lady ta'en anither mate, So we may mak' our dinner swate, O. So we may mak' our dinner swate. Ye'll sit on his white hause-bane, And I'll pike oot his bonny blue e'en Wi' ae lock o' his gowden hair We'll theek oor nest when it grows bare, O. We'll theek oor nest when it grows bare. There's mony a ane for him maks mane But nane sail ken whaur he is gane O'er his white banes when they are bare The wind sail blaw for evermair, O. The wind sail blaw for evermair.'! Bastard! Asshole!" Later he would call Khrushchev a "maricón," or homosexual.“
Castro was not a coward or an illiterate by any stretch of the imagination. He had a great vocabulary......
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Journalist Jean Daniel was with Fidel Castro when JFK was assassinated. Even though they had conversed the previous night from 10 pm until 4 am. Here is a quote of Castro from the all-night session:
“Kennedy could still be this man. He still has the possibility of becoming, in the eyes of history, the greatest President of the United States, the leader who may at last understand that there can be coexistence between capitalists and socialists, even in the Americas. He would then be an even greater President than Lincoln. I know, for example, that for Khrushchev, Kennedy is a man you can talk with. I have gotten this impression from all my conversations with Khrushchev. Other leaders have assured me that to attain this goal, we must first await his re-election. Personally, I consider him responsible for everything, but I will say this: he has come to understand many things over the past few months; and then too, in the last analysis, I’m convinced that anyone else would be worse.” Then Fidel had added with a broad and boyish grin: “If you see him again, you can tell him that I’m willing to declare Goldwater my friend if that will guarantee Kennedy’s re-election!”
https://www.google.com/amp/s/newrepublic.com/amp/article/120460/fidel-castro-reaction-kennedy-assassination-cuba
Fidel Castro reportedly knew that the Kennedy brothers were trying to assassinate him and overthrow his regime. In my opinion, this was deliberate smoke to cover that he knew an assassination attempt was going to happen the next day. I can’t imagine that he actually meant this...
"Reportedly " ?
Uh, the Bay of Pigs was a bit more than "reportedly ", yes?
Anyhow, amazing you can divine the true meaning of Castro's words. Do you also read tea leaves?
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"Reportedly " ?
Uh, the Bay of Pigs was a bit more than "reportedly ", yes?
Anyhow, amazing you can divine the true meaning of Castro's words. Do you also read tea leaves?
In my post, the word reportedly is referring to Castro’s knowledge regarding the Kennedy brothers. Amazing that you would appear to post that it refers to the bay of pigs.
I stated very clearly that it was my opinion. You are perfectly free to disagree with it.
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"Reportedly " ?
Uh, the Bay of Pigs was a bit more than "reportedly ", yes?
Anyhow, amazing you can divine the true meaning of Castro's words. Do you also read tea leaves?
Uh, the Bay of Pigs was a bit more than "reportedly ", yes?
BOP was NOT JFK's doing..... He inherited the illegal operation from Tricky Dick Nixon , Eisenhower, Dulles and Bissell. At the time he took office the time bomb was already ticking and he hadn't been in office long enough to get the renegade CIA under control. In fact he tried to dissuade the JCOS and the CIA and find a way out of the mess....
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Uh, the Bay of Pigs was a bit more than "reportedly ", yes?
BOP was NOT JFK's doing..... He inherited the illegal operation from Tricky Dick Nixon , Eisenhower, Dulles and Bissell. At the time he took office the time bomb was already ticking and he hadn't been in office long enough to get the renegade CIA under control. In fact he tried to dissuade the JCOS and the CIA and find a way out of the mess....
I found this passage from “Guerrilla Prince” by Georgie Anne Geyer interesting:
“Allen Dulles, the CIA director who always seemed so imperiously removed from any second-guessing, took the Bay of Pigs disaster with a rare personalness. On April 19, he arrived at Richard Nixon's home for a meeting, and he was noticeably and unaccustomedly nervous. Did he want a drink? "I certainly would," the spy chief said, "I really need one. This is the worst day of my life." Then, again in totally unaccustomed form, he worried over why he had not warned Kennedy that the air cover was absolutely necessary. "I should have told him that we must not fail," he told Nixon. Then he shook his head. "I came close to doing so but I didn't."”
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I found this passage from “Guerrilla Prince” by Georgie Anne Geyer interesting:
“Allen Dulles, the CIA director who always seemed so imperiously removed from any second-guessing, took the Bay of Pigs disaster with a rare personalness. On April 19, he arrived at Richard Nixon's home for a meeting, and he was noticeably and unaccustomedly nervous. Did he want a drink? "I certainly would," the spy chief said, "I really need one. This is the worst day of my life." Then, again in totally unaccustomed form, he worried over why he had not warned Kennedy that the air cover was absolutely necessary. "I should have told him that we must not fail," he told Nixon. Then he shook his head. "I came close to doing so but I didn't."”
The BOP is a long sad tale of perfidy , double dealing, and treachery by those who should have been on JFK's team.
JFK was Navy all the way.... He was from the school who believed that the Ex O should cover for the Captain....
When he realized that he couldn't defuse the ticking time bomb he decided to let the CIA take the reins ....And he put General Cabell at the controls in the role of his EX O ..... He thought that Cabell would authorize the second air strike on the Cuban airfields that hadn't been destroyed in the first strike But Cabell was NOT Navy and didn't understand that he had the authority to run the operation and he lacked the guts to proceed .
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The BOP is a long sad tale of perfidy , double dealing, and treachery by those who should have been on JFK's team.
JFK was Navy all the way.... He was from the school who believed that the Ex O should cover for the Captain....
When he realized that he couldn't defuse the ticking time bomb he decided to let the CIA take the reins ....And he put General Cabell at the controls in the role of his EX O ..... He thought that Cabell would authorize the second air strike on the Cuban airfields that hadn't been destroyed in the first strike But Cabell was NOT Navy and didn't understand that he had the authority to run the operation and he lacked the guts to proceed .
More passages from “Guerrilla Prince” by Georgie Anne Geyer:
Always the avid student of military history, Castro had assumed that the first step of the invasion would be an attack on his air force (he well remembered that Nasser's entire air force had been destroyed on the ground in Egypt in 1956), so he had dispersed the planes in his small air force. This one move would come to mean the difference between victory and defeat. In the bombing raids that Saturday, Castro lost five planes, but he was left with four British Sea Fury light attack bombers, one B-26, and three T-33S. It would be enough. ...
...But it was his small air force that really won the battle, before the rest of the fighting even began. The American "plan" had been prefaced entirely on the idea that Castro's tiny air force would be destroyed before the invasion force landed. Indeed, the brigadistas had been told it had already been destroyed. This was the fatal falsehood of the invasion. Castro's little Sea Furies were sent out from their hiding places to sink the invasion fleet of the United States of America. The amazing and unexpected fact is that they did! ...
... The battle was not very old when the surviving American ships began steaming out of the bay, stranding some 1,350 brigadistas, who only the day before had been happily sunning themselves at sea. ...
... The CIA had been so certain that Castro's air force would be destroyed that they had not taken even the basic precaution of placing anti-aircraft weapons aboard the ships. As the last U.S. destroyer sailed away from the Bay of Pigs, one brigadista remarked: "In the wake of that ship go two hundred years of infamy."
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More passages from “Guerrilla Prince” by Georgie Anne Geyer:
Always the avid student of military history, Castro had assumed that the first step of the invasion would be an attack on his air force (he well remembered that Nasser's entire air force had been destroyed on the ground in Egypt in 1956), so he had dispersed the planes in his small air force. This one move would come to mean the difference between victory and defeat. In the bombing raids that Saturday, Castro lost five planes, but he was left with four British Sea Fury light attack bombers, one B-26, and three T-33S. It would be enough. ...
...But it was his small air force that really won the battle, before the rest of the fighting even began. The American "plan" had been prefaced entirely on the idea that Castro's tiny air force would be destroyed before the invasion force landed. Indeed, the brigadistas had been told it had already been destroyed. This was the fatal falsehood of the invasion. Castro's little Sea Furies were sent out from their hiding places to sink the invasion fleet of the United States of America. The amazing and unexpected fact is that they did! ...
... The battle was not very old when the surviving American ships began steaming out of the bay, stranding some 1,350 brigadistas, who only the day before had been happily sunning themselves at sea. ...
... The CIA had been so certain that Castro's air force would be destroyed that they had not taken even the basic precaution of placing anti-aircraft weapons aboard the ships. As the last U.S. destroyer sailed away from the Bay of Pigs, one brigadista remarked: "In the wake of that ship go two hundred years of infamy."
I truly wish that I could tell you what really happened, but the story is so long and convoluted that It would take weeks to type out the facts .....So you can Believe it or not.... General Charles Cabell was the man most responsible for the CIA failure at BOP. John Kennedy being the sailor that he was, lived by the code that He was responsible for anything that happened on his watch.....Thus he publicly accepted the fiasco at BOP..... But in reality it was the back stabbing CIA who was responsible.
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More passages from “Guerrilla Prince” by Georgie Anne Geyer:
Always the avid student of military history, Castro had assumed that the first step of the invasion would be an attack on his air force (he well remembered that Nasser's entire air force had been destroyed on the ground in Egypt in 1956), so he had dispersed the planes in his small air force. This one move would come to mean the difference between victory and defeat. In the bombing raids that Saturday, Castro lost five planes, but he was left with four British Sea Fury light attack bombers, one B-26, and three T-33S. It would be enough. ...
...But it was his small air force that really won the battle, before the rest of the fighting even began. The American "plan" had been prefaced entirely on the idea that Castro's tiny air force would be destroyed before the invasion force landed. Indeed, the brigadistas had been told it had already been destroyed. This was the fatal falsehood of the invasion. Castro's little Sea Furies were sent out from their hiding places to sink the invasion fleet of the United States of America. The amazing and unexpected fact is that they did! ...
... The battle was not very old when the surviving American ships began steaming out of the bay, stranding some 1,350 brigadistas, who only the day before had been happily sunning themselves at sea. ...
... The CIA had been so certain that Castro's air force would be destroyed that they had not taken even the basic precaution of placing anti-aircraft weapons aboard the ships. As the last U.S. destroyer sailed away from the Bay of Pigs, one brigadista remarked: "In the wake of that ship go two hundred years of infamy."
Charlie, IMO the fundamental problem that caused the BOP fiasco ( and JFK's murder) was the fact that John Kennedy wasn't the ruthless iron fisted cutthroat that was needed in the White House at that time. He inherited a ruthless mob of cut throat pirates who truly believed that they were the true government of the US and they had to answer to no one. IOW....JFK was a good man with scruples and character who had got more than he bargained for, and found out after he was on board , the ship of which he was supposed to be the Captain, was a damned pirate ship ....and the ruthless cutthroat pirates were in control.
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I truly wish that I could tell you what really happened, but the story is so long and convoluted that It would take weeks to type out the facts .....So you can Believe it or not....
Walt, if a story can't be told in 20 seconds or less, then its way too convoluted to be real.
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Charlie, IMO the fundamental problem that caused the BOP fiasco ( and JFK's murder) was the fact that John Kennedy wasn't the ruthless iron fisted cutthroat that was needed in the White House at that time. He inherited a ruthless mob of cut throat pirates who truly believed that they were the true government of the US and they had to answer to no one. IOW....JFK was a good man with scruples and character who had got more than he bargained for, and found out after he was on board , the ship of which he was supposed to be the Captain, was a damned pirate ship ....and the ruthless cutthroat pirates were in control.
The fundamental problem that caused the failure appears to me to have been the underestimation of Castro and his abilities. Here is another passage from “Guerrilla Prince by Georgie Anne Geyer that you might find interesting:
“With his uncommon prescience, instinct, and feel, Castro visited the Bay of Pigs only two weeks before the exiles would land, to see how his new Tahitian village resort was coming along. As he was strolling along the bay, he suddenly swirled around to a Cuban companion and exclaimed, "This is a great place for a landing. . . . We should place a fifty-caliber heavy machine gun there, just in case."
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The fundamental problem that caused the failure appears to me to have been the underestimation of Castro and his abilities. Here is another passage from “Guerrilla Prince by Georgie Anne Geyer that you might find interesting:
“With his uncommon prescience, instinct, and feel, Castro visited the Bay of Pigs only two weeks before the exiles would land, to see how his new Tahitian village resort was coming along. As he was strolling along the bay, he suddenly swirled around to a Cuban companion and exclaimed, "This is a great place for a landing. . . . We should place a fifty-caliber heavy machine gun there, just in case."
he suddenly swirled around to a Cuban companion and exclaimed, "This is a great place for a landing. . . .
He was wrong, just as the CIA planners were wrong....The fact that the landing failed is proof that both Castro and the CIA were wrong....and Bahia de cochinos was NOT a "great place for a landing.....The CIA planners failed to realize that the landing craft couldn't get over the coral reef to land the invaders on the shore....
This failure to see the problem was just one of several monumental failures by the CIA.
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he suddenly swirled around to a Cuban companion and exclaimed, "This is a great place for a landing. . . .
He was wrong, just as the CIA planners were wrong....The fact that the landing failed is proof that both Castro and the CIA were wrong....and Bahia de cochinos was NOT a "great place for a landing.....The CIA planners failed to realize that the landing craft couldn't get over the coral reef to land the invaders on the shore....
This failure to see the problem was just one of several monumental failures by the CIA.
Yep, one fiasco after another. And then on the second day, this:
“At 14:00, President Kennedy received a telegram from Nikita Khrushchev in Moscow, stating the Russians would not allow the US to enter Cuba, and implied swift nuclear retribution to the United States heartland if their warnings were not heeded.”[158]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_of_Pigs_Invasion
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More passages from “Guerrilla Prince” by Georgie Anne Geyer:
Always the avid student of military history, Castro had assumed that the first step of the invasion would be an attack on his air force (he well remembered that Nasser's entire air force had been destroyed on the ground in Egypt in 1956), so he had dispersed the planes in his small air force. This one move would come to mean the difference between victory and defeat. In the bombing raids that Saturday, Castro lost five planes, but he was left with four British Sea Fury light attack bombers, one B-26, and three T-33S. It would be enough. ...
...But it was his small air force that really won the battle, before the rest of the fighting even began. The American "plan" had been prefaced entirely on the idea that Castro's tiny air force would be destroyed before the invasion force landed. Indeed, the brigadistas had been told it had already been destroyed. This was the fatal falsehood of the invasion. Castro's little Sea Furies were sent out from their hiding places to sink the invasion fleet of the United States of America. The amazing and unexpected fact is that they did! ...
... The battle was not very old when the surviving American ships began steaming out of the bay, stranding some 1,350 brigadistas, who only the day before had been happily sunning themselves at sea. ...
... The CIA had been so certain that Castro's air force would be destroyed that they had not taken even the basic precaution of placing anti-aircraft weapons aboard the ships. As the last U.S. destroyer sailed away from the Bay of Pigs, one brigadista remarked: "In the wake of that ship go two hundred years of infamy."
Castro's little Sea Furies were sent out from their hiding places to sink the invasion fleet of the United States of America. The amazing and unexpected fact is that they did! ...
... The battle was not very old when the surviving American ships began steaming out of the bay, stranding some 1,350 brigadistas, who only the day before had been happily sunning themselves at sea. ...
[/b][/i]
Charlie, I know that these are not your words, and you are quoting the book, ...but the words make me very angry because they are lies.....
The ships were NOT American ships ....They did NOT fly the American flag.
And let me tell you IF those ships had been American ships Fidel Castro's Island empire would have ceased to exist on April 16 1961.....
The US Navy had a fleet of warships about 40 miles from Cuba, which included the Aircraft carrier US Essex .....Several destroyers, and the USS San Marcos ( An amphibious landing ship with combat Marines on board.... The Essex had fighter in the air ( The Blue Blasters) armed and ready.....
If the ships that Castro's planes had attacked had been American ships Castros planes and his Island empire would have been destroyed immediately, and the outcome at BOP would have been entirely different.
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The fundamental problem that caused the failure appears to me to have been the underestimation of Castro and his abilities. Here is another passage from “Guerrilla Prince by Georgie Anne Geyer that you might find interesting:
“With his uncommon prescience, instinct, and feel, Castro visited the Bay of Pigs only two weeks before the exiles would land, to see how his new Tahitian village resort was coming along. As he was strolling along the bay, he suddenly swirled around to a Cuban companion and exclaimed, "This is a great place for a landing. . . . We should place a fifty-caliber heavy machine gun there, just in case."
The fundamental problem that caused the failure appears to me to have been the underestimation of Castro and his abilities.
I disagree.... If JFK had been tough enough to crush the CIA when he learned that they were planning to invade Cube ( much like Hitler did in Poland in September 39) there would have been no fiasco that we know as Bay Of Pigs.
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Castro's little Sea Furies were sent out from their hiding places to sink the invasion fleet of the United States of America. The amazing and unexpected fact is that they did! ...
... The battle was not very old when the surviving American ships began steaming out of the bay, stranding some 1,350 brigadistas, who only the day before had been happily sunning themselves at sea. ...
[/b][/i]
Charlie, I know that these are not your words, and you are quoting the book, ...but the words make me very angry because they are lies.....
The ships were NOT American ships ....They did NOT fly the American flag.
And let me tell you IF those ships had been American ships Fidel Castro's Island empire would have ceased to exist on April 16 1961.....
The US Navy had a fleet of warships about 40 miles from Cuba, which included the Aircraft carrier US Essex .....Several destroyers, and the USS San Marcos ( An amphibious landing ship with combat Marines on board.... The Essex had fighter in the air ( The Blue Blasters) armed and ready.....
If the ships that Castro's planes had attacked had been American ships Castros planes and his Island empire would have been destroyed immediately, and the outcome at BOP would have been entirely different.
Correct, they were not officially American ships. That was by design for plausible denial purposes. However, they were purchased by the CIA for the BOP operation.
“To create a navy, the CIA purchased five cargo ships from the Cuban-owned, but Miami-based Garcia Line, thereby giving "plausible deniability" as the State Department had insisted no US ships could be involved in the invasion.[97] The first four of the five ships, namely the Atlantico, the Caribe, the Houston and Río Escondido were to carry enough supplies and weapons to last thirty days while the Lake Charles had 15 days of supplies and was intended to land the provisional government of Cuba.[97] The ships were loaded with supplies at New Orleans and sailed to Puerto Cabezas, Nicaragua.[97] Additionally, the invasion force had two old Landing Craft Infantry (LCI) ships, the Blagar and Barbara J from World War II that were part of the CIA's "ghost ship" fleet and served as command ships for the invasion.[97] The crews of the supply ships were Cuban while the crews of the LCIs were Americans, borrowed by the CIA from the Military Sea Transportation Service (MSTS).[97] One CIA officer wrote that MSTS sailors were all professional and experienced, but not trained for combat.”[97]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_of_Pigs_Invasion
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I disagree.... If JFK had been tough enough to crush the CIA when he learned that they were planning to invade Cube ( much like Hitler did in Poland in September 39) there would have been no fiasco that we know as Bay Of Pigs.
He was too inexperienced. He's often described as a breath of fresh of air being so young, but that also means he was inexperienced.
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He was too inexperienced. He's often described as a breath of fresh of air being so young, but that also means he was inexperienced.
Yes yer right....The iron hand in the Family...Old Joe Kennedy who was as crooked as a dog's hind leg knew the ropes in dealing with pirates and mobsters thought that he could be the power behind the Pres.... Old Joe had a lust to put one of his sons in the White House.... And he stroked the mob where necessary ( like Giancana in Chicago) to get votes. But Joe was stricken with a debilitating disease and couldn't keep his hands on the reins.... and JFK wasn't aware of the debts that he was expected to pay to the mob. So Booby went after Jimmy Hoffa..... and created real problems for JFK.
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He was too inexperienced. He's often described as a breath of fresh of air being so young, but that also means he was inexperienced.
JFK correctly viewed Castro as a threat to the USA. And was trying to do something about it. I do believe that he and most of the people that he had working on the issue underestimated Castro and his capabilities.
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JFK correctly viewed Castro as a threat to the USA. And was trying to do something about it. I do believe that he and most of the people that he had working on the issue underestimated Castro and his capabilities.
Really,?? Cuba was a threat to the US?? I don thank sooo.... Castro was a problem for the Mafia because he seized there gambling casinos and whore houses, which were very lucrative enterprises . And when he booted the Mafia out of Cuba they lost a base for smuggling drugs into the US....
Castro also hit HL Hunt pretty hard by seizing the refineries ( Sugar and OIL ) and Hunt was not a happy camper.
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Really,?? Cuba was a threat to the US?? I don thank sooo.... Castro was a problem for the Mafia because he seized there gambling casinos and whore houses, which were very lucrative enterprises . And when he booted the Mafia out of Cuba they lost a base for smuggling drugs into the US....
Castro also hit HL Hunt pretty hard by seizing the refineries ( Sugar and OIL ) and Hunt was not a happy camper.
We ended up having to fight his revolution in other countries. Here are a couple more passages from “Guerrilla Prince” by Georgie Anne Geyer:
“Juan Benemelis, the Cuban diplomat who had studied in Castro's EIR for diplomats in Vedado, became the director of the Cubans' "Africa Corp." When I talked with him in Washington, D.C., years later, he told me, "Castro hoped to implement an ambitious, two-pronged plan simultaneously, unleashing a general offensive on the African continent, led by Che Guevara, together with one in Latin America which he himself would guide directly from Havana."
“Che told Nasser that all he was searching for was "a place to fight for the world revolution and to accept the challenge of death.'*
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We ended up having to fight his revolution in other countries. Here are a couple more passages from “Guerrilla Prince” by Georgie Anne Geyer:
“Juan Benemelis, the Cuban diplomat who had studied in Castro's EIR for diplomats in Vedado, became the director of the Cubans' "Africa Corp." When I talked with him in Washington, D.C., years later, he told me, "Castro hoped to implement an ambitious, two-pronged plan simultaneously, unleashing a general offensive on the African continent, led by Che Guevara, together with one in Latin America which he himself would guide directly from Havana."
“Che told Nasser that all he was searching for was "a place to fight for the world revolution and to accept the challenge of death.'*
Big mouth.... small rectum.... Castro was FOS.
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Correct, they were not officially American ships. That was by design for plausible denial purposes. However, they were purchased by the CIA for the BOP operation.
“To create a navy, the CIA purchased five cargo ships from the Cuban-owned, but Miami-based Garcia Line, thereby giving "plausible deniability" as the State Department had insisted no US ships could be involved in the invasion.[97] The first four of the five ships, namely the Atlantico, the Caribe, the Houston and Río Escondido were to carry enough supplies and weapons to last thirty days while the Lake Charles had 15 days of supplies and was intended to land the provisional government of Cuba.[97] The ships were loaded with supplies at New Orleans and sailed to Puerto Cabezas, Nicaragua.[97] Additionally, the invasion force had two old Landing Craft Infantry (LCI) ships, the Blagar and Barbara J from World War II that were part of the CIA's "ghost ship" fleet and served as command ships for the invasion.[97] The crews of the supply ships were Cuban while the crews of the LCIs were Americans, borrowed by the CIA from the Military Sea Transportation Service (MSTS).[97] One CIA officer wrote that MSTS sailors were all professional and experienced, but not trained for combat.”[97]
The link to the Wiki account is a brief nutshell account of the event and it isn't true.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_of_Pigs_Invasion
There is one portion of the BOP story that is always omitted..... The false flag attack on the US Naval base at Gitmo.
Are you aware of the attack that didn't happen because the Cuban exiles who were supposed to attack Gitmo while dressed as Castro's soldiers mutinied and refused to leave the ship that had carried them to the shore line on the back side of Gitmo. This was a pivotal event that was intended to get US Marine sentries killed and enrage JFK into ordering the US military to attack Cuba. The CIA was plotting to sacrifice US Marine sentries by tricking the Cuban exiles into believing they were attacking a Casto Army camp, when in reality they were attacking the back side of the US Navy Base.
If you know the story of how Hitler justified the attack on Poland in September of 1939, then you've got an idea of what the CIA were plotting.... They were ready to get some Marines killed to trick JFK into thinking that Castro's forces had attacked and killed the Marines.
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Big mouth.... small rectum.... Castro was FOS.
More from “Guerrilla Prince” by Georgie Anne Geyer:
“By the thirtieth anniversary of the Revolution, Castro had more troops around the world than all the other Communist leaders put together. His military was the largest in Latin America, larger even than Brazil's. Because of the enormous levels of Soviet arms deliveries and aid, the Cuban army numbered 145,000 men, but these already substantial numbers were backed by 110,000 ready reserves and more than a million men and women in the Territorial Troops Militias. Cuba, with slightly more than ten million persons, was probably the world's most completely militarized country — 57,000 troops in Angola, 5,000 to 7,000 in Ethiopia, and hundreds and thousands from South Yemen, to Libya, to Nicaragua, to Mozambique, to Syria, Equatorial Guinea, Tanzania, Guinea Bissau, North Korea, São Tomé Algeria, Uganda, Laos, Afghanistan, and Sierra Leone.“
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Really,?? Cuba was a threat to the US?? I don thank sooo.... Castro was a problem for the Mafia because he seized there gambling casinos and whore houses, which were very lucrative enterprises . And when he booted the Mafia out of Cuba they lost a base for smuggling drugs into the US....
Castro also hit HL Hunt pretty hard by seizing the refineries ( Sugar and OIL ) and Hunt was not a happy camper.
More from “Guerrilla Prince” by Georgie Anne Geyer:
“On January 3, 1966, just shortly after Che returned to Cuba from his misadventures in the Congo, Castro opened the First Conference of Solidarity of the People of Africa, Asia and Latin America, or more simply the “Tricontinental." Che, of course, was not there, and his name was not even mentioned. No fewer than five hundred twelve delegates, sixty-four observers, and seventy-seven invited guests, representing eighty-two countries and territories, gathered in the once-luxurious Havana Hilton. Russian-backed and Russian-sponsored, Castro's Tricontinental was to be, in the words of the scholar of terrorism Claire Sterling, "the beginning of a massive thrust against Western capitalism generally and the United States in particular, through the formation of a Guerrilla International." Everybody was there: the Vietcong, Guatemala's Rebel Armed Forces, Stokley Carmichael, even the new and relatively unknown Palestine Liberation Organization. It was a veritable carnival of the world's atomized, deracinated, angry outcasts searching for ways to take power through violence. The Tricontinental also witnessed the revolutionary birthing of the Venezuelan who would become the world's most feared and formidable terrorist, the man called "Carlos," originally named Ilyich Ramirez. It was at Castro's own Camp Matanzas just outside Havana that he had studied terrorism under the KGB's Colonel Viktor Simenov. From Cuba, from Camp Matanzas, from Castro, "Carlos" went on to work with the Palestinian terrorist Wadi Haddad, to introduce diplomatic hostage-taking to Europe, and to lead such heinous terrorist attacks of the next fifteen years as the Munich Massacre.”
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Really,?? Cuba was a threat to the US?? I don thank sooo....
This passage from “Guerrilla Prince” by Georgie Anne Geyer might enlighten you just a little bit:
“One of the most unbelievable events of Castro's entire courtship of these Americans occurred in 1977, during the days of the Jimmy Carter administration, when talk was in the air in Washington about a new opening to Cuba. Castro caught the spirit of the moment and sent a message to Senator Frank Church, then head of the powerful Senate Foreign Relations Committee, that if he came to Cuba, the U.S. administration would be "pleased with the results of the visit." After meeting with Secretary of State Cyrus Vance, Senator Church and his team drew up a list of items they wanted from Castro, which included the release of thirty Americans from Cuban jails and assurances that Cuba would withdraw from its African adventures. Then they boarded the backup plane for Air Force One, the same plane that had carried John F. Kennedy's lifeless body and the hopes of the American nation from Dallas to Washington after the assassination, and flew off to Havana. They considered the deliberate choice of this plane as a kind of gift of high respect for Castro. ...
...Finally, Castro suggested that he come aboard the American plane — he wanted to see it. Once on board, they sipped piña coladas, and Church aide Mark Moran took a picture of Castro sitting in the president's chair, because "Fidel specifically wanted his picture taken while he was sitting in the chair." While there, Moran recalled, "Fidel was shown the phone with the red button for war, and the green button used to call the president in the White House directly." Cuba was never more surreal than at the moment when the Cuban leader, whose involvement in the death of John Kennedy has never been seriously dismissed, sat in the American president's chair in the plane that had so mournfully carried John Kennedy's dead body!“
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This passage from “Guerrilla Prince” by Georgie Anne Geyer might enlighten you just a little bit:
“One of the most unbelievable events of Castro's entire courtship of these Americans occurred in 1977, during the days of the Jimmy Carter administration, when talk was in the air in Washington about a new opening to Cuba. Castro caught the spirit of the moment and sent a message to Senator Frank Church, then head of the powerful Senate Foreign Relations Committee, that if he came to Cuba, the U.S. administration would be "pleased with the results of the visit." After meeting with Secretary of State Cyrus Vance, Senator Church and his team drew up a list of items they wanted from Castro, which included the release of thirty Americans from Cuban jails and assurances that Cuba would withdraw from its African adventures. Then they boarded the backup plane for Air Force One, the same plane that had carried John F. Kennedy's lifeless body and the hopes of the American nation from Dallas to Washington after the assassination, and flew off to Havana. They considered the deliberate choice of this plane as a kind of gift of high respect for Castro. ...
...Finally, Castro suggested that he come aboard the American plane — he wanted to see it. Once on board, they sipped piña coladas, and Church aide Mark Moran took a picture of Castro sitting in the president's chair, because "Fidel specifically wanted his picture taken while he was sitting in the chair." While there, Moran recalled, "Fidel was shown the phone with the red button for war, and the green button used to call the president in the White House directly." Cuba was never more surreal than at the moment when the Cuban leader, whose involvement in the death of John Kennedy has never been seriously dismissed, sat in the American president's chair in the plane that had so mournfully carried John Kennedy's dead body!“
Well, that certainly proves Oswald acted alone, and the Magic Bullet is a certainty.
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Well, that certainly proves Oswald acted alone, and the Magic Bullet is a certainty.
Castro must have been pleasantly surprised by the way that critics have focused on these types of items. (Which kept their attention away from him!)
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"Cui Bono"?
food for thought
before 11/22/63
(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/mongoose.jpg)
(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/PageImage2.jpg)
after 11/22/63
(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/PageImage-1.jpg)
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"Cui Bono"?
food for thought
before 11/22/63
(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/mongoose.jpg)
(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/PageImage2.jpg)
after 11/22/63
(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/PageImage-1.jpg)
Had to look up the meaning:
cui bo·no?
/kwē ˈbōnō/
exclamation
who stands, or stood, to gain (from a crime, and so might have been responsible for it)?
Yes, I agree, Castro stood to gain. (Provided he could plausibly deny responsibility.) In my opinion, Castro could have considered it self defense...
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Had to look up the meaning:
cui bo·no?
/kwē ˈbōnō/
exclamation
who stands, or stood, to gain (from a crime, and so might have been responsible for it)?
Yes, I agree, Castro stood to gain. (Provided he could plausibly deny responsibility.) In my opinion, Castro could have considered it self defense...
Thinking out loud.
If Castro was involved I don't think it would have been directly. Most likely is he would have used a page from the CIA's play book and found a willing domestic opponent.
The domestic conspirators duplicitously accept Castro's assistance.
Plan "B", if the attempt on JFK fails, the blame falls on the Cubans with LHO a willing accomplice. The Carcano in the TSBD leads to Ozzie, the Mauser to the Cubans.
Plan "A", if the attempt succeeds, the LN patsy takes the blame.
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Thinking out loud.
If Castro was involved I don't think it would have been directly. Most likely is he would have used a page from the CIA's play book and found a willing domestic opponent.
The domestic conspirators duplicitously accept Castro's assistance.
Plan "B", if the attempt on JFK fails, the blame falls on the Cubans with LHO a willing accomplice. The Carcano in the TSBD leads to Ozzie, the Mauser to the Cubans.
Plan "A", if the attempt succeeds, the LN patsy takes the blame.
If Castro was involved I don't think it would have been directly. Most likely is he would have used a page from the CIA's play book and found a willing domestic opponent.
The domestic conspirators duplicitously accept Castro's assistance.
Or, the willing domestic opponent found Castro. In 1959, in southern California, LHO reportedly made contact with the Cubans and his desire to go to Cuba to help Castro could have been communicated.
(https://i.vgy.me/1QYiMF.jpg)
Reports of Castro's newfound "best buddy," Khrushchev, were most likely seen by LHO in the newspapers, and this relationship could have been a part of LHO's desire to go to Russia. Some of Castro's intelligence agents were reportedly trained in Minsk while LHO was there. It is feasible that LHO had some contact with some of the Cuban agents in Minsk. And they could have convinced LHO that he could best support Castro's regime from the USA, hence his desire to go back.
Although the idea of a Texas trip for JFK had already been tossed around for a while, actual planning began in June of 1963. Castro had at least one spy that was reportedly placed in a high position in the pentagon. It is possible that word of a Texas trip in the planning stages reached this spy between June and the end of September (when LHO went to Mexico City). Therefore when LHO tried (in vain) to go to Cuba through Mexico City, they might have convinced him to go back and stay around Dallas in hopes that he could make an assassination attempt when the JFK visit happened. If LHO, while in Mexico City, had told them about his attempt on Walker (as part of his resume), they might have realized that he had the capacity to take on the task of an attempt on JFK (as a lone assassin).
Just as LHO apparently "fell into the lap" of Castro at the opportune time; the employment at the TSBD and the motorcade route in front of the TSBD apparently "fell into the lap" of LHO at the opportune time. LHO had the phone number of Duran and, once everything became apparent and he had devised his plan, all he needed to do was call her and let her know to be watching...
The domestic conspirators duplicitously accept Castro's assistance.
Plan "B", if the attempt on JFK fails, the blame falls on the Cubans with LHO a willing accomplice. The Carcano in the TSBD leads to Ozzie, the Mauser to the Cubans.
Plan "A", if the attempt succeeds, the LN patsy takes the blame.
I haven't seen any evidence of others shooting at JFK in Dealey Plaza that day. I believe LHO was capable and acted without assistance.
-
If Castro was involved I don't think it would have been directly. Most likely is he would have used a page from the CIA's play book and found a willing domestic opponent.
The domestic conspirators duplicitously accept Castro's assistance.
Or, the willing domestic opponent found Castro. In 1959, in southern California, LHO reportedly made contact with the Cubans and his desire to go to Cuba to help Castro could have been communicated.
(https://i.vgy.me/1QYiMF.jpg)
Reports of Castro's newfound "best buddy," Khrushchev, were most likely seen by LHO in the newspapers, and this relationship could have been a part of LHO's desire to go to Russia. Some of Castro's intelligence agents were reportedly trained in Minsk while LHO was there. It is feasible that LHO had some contact with some of the Cuban agents in Minsk. And they could have convinced LHO that he could best support Castro's regime from the USA, hence his desire to go back.
Although the idea of a Texas trip for JFK had already been tossed around for a while, actual planning began in June of 1963. Castro had at least one spy that was reportedly placed in a high position in the pentagon. It is possible that word of a Texas trip in the planning stages reached this spy between June and the end of September (when LHO went to Mexico City). Therefore when LHO tried (in vain) to go to Cuba through Mexico City, they might have convinced him to go back and stay around Dallas in hopes that he could make an assassination attempt when the JFK visit happened. If LHO, while in Mexico City, had told them about his attempt on Walker (as part of his resume), they might have realized that he had the capacity to take on the task of an attempt on JFK (as a lone assassin).
Just as LHO apparently "fell into the lap" of Castro at the opportune time; the employment at the TSBD and the motorcade route in front of the TSBD apparently "fell into the lap" of LHO at the opportune time. LHO had the phone number of Duran and, once everything became apparent and he had devised his plan, all he needed to do was call her and let her know to be watching...
The domestic conspirators duplicitously accept Castro's assistance.
Plan "B", if the attempt on JFK fails, the blame falls on the Cubans with LHO a willing accomplice. The Carcano in the TSBD leads to Ozzie, the Mauser to the Cubans.
Plan "A", if the attempt succeeds, the LN patsy takes the blame.
I haven't seen any evidence of others shooting at JFK in Dealey Plaza that day. I believe LHO was capable and acted without assistance.
"I haven't seen any evidence of others shooting at JFK in Dealey Plaza that day. I believe LHO was capable and acted without assistance."
You most likely weren't in DP at 12:30pm on 11/22/63.
Here are a few that were.
TESTIMONY OF (some of the) EYE-WITNESSES WHO THOUGHT SHOTS CAME FROM OTHER THAN TSBD
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=40392&relPageId=44
1. Danny Garcia Arces - Shots came from railroad track yards.
2. Mrs. Donald Sam Baker - Shots came from railroad yards;not possible to come from the TSBD.
3. Mrs. A. G.(Jane)Berry- Thought shots came from west of her position.
4. O. V. Campbell - Thought shots came from railroad yard to west of the TSBD.
5. Mrs. Charles Thomas (Avery) Davis - Thought shots came from triple underpass.
6. Mrs. John T. (Elsie) Dorman) - She was on the 4th floor of TSBD and thought shots came from Records Building.
7. Mr. and Mrs. Jack Franzen - Thought shots came from area adjacent to TSBD.
8. Buell Wesley Frazier - Thought shots came from railroad overpass.
9. Dorthy Ann Garner - Thought shots came from west of TSBD (she was on 4th floor or TSBD)
10. Bobby W. Hargis - Believes shot came from right front (grassy knoll area) - from overpass
11. Mrs. John Hawkins - Thought shots came from railroad yards adjacent to TSBD.
12. Mrs. Jean Lollis Hill - Thought shots were coming from the knoll, just west of the TSBD.
13. Postal Inspector Harry D. Holmes - Thought shots came from crowd.
14. Mrs. Yola D. Hopson - Did not think the sound (of the shots) came from the TSBD.
15. Emmet Joseph Hudson - Shots came from behind and above him; from rear, high. (He was on steps leading up knoll)
16. Mrs. George Andrew Kounas - Thought shots came from the west.
17. Secret Service Agent Paul E. Landis Jr. - 1st shot came from behind and over right shoulder; 2nd shot came from right front and hit President's head.
18. Billy Nolan Lovelady - Thought shots came from the knoll of from across the street.
19. Judith L. McCully - From right side of arcade building.
20. Austin Lawerence Miller - Shots came from his left (he was standing on the triple underpass).
21. A. J. Millican - Shots came from the pergola.
22. Joe R. Molina - Shots came from west side (he was on steps of TSBD.
23. Thomas J. Murphy - Shots came from spot just west of TSBD.
24. Mrs. P. E. Newman - Shots came from her right (west). She was halfway from TSBD to Stemmons Freeway sign.
25. William E Newman, Jr. - Shots came from "garden" directly behind Newman (he was standing at east end of pergola)
26. Mrs. William V. Parker - First shot came from pergola.
27. J. C. Price - Assumed shots from Triple Underpass.
28. Frank E. Reilly - Shots came from trees at west end of pergola on north side of Elm. (He was standing on Triple Underpass).
29. Mrs. A. L. Rowland - Shots came from railroad yard.
30. W. H. (Bill) Shelly - Shots came from west (he was on TSBD steps)
31. Police Officer Edgar Leon Smith, Jr. - Shots came from railroad yard or grassy knoll area.
32. Officer Joe Marshall Smith - Thought shots came from Elm St.extension, bushes of the overpass.
33. Secret Service Agent Forrest Sorrels - Shots came from knoll;'top of terrace to my right.
34. James Thomas Tague - Shots came from bushes at pergola.
35. Roy S. Truly - Shots came from west of TSBD.
36. Deputy Sheriff Harry Weatherford - Shots came from railroad yard.
37. County Surveyor Robert M. West - Shots came from northeast quadrant of Dealy Plaza.
38. Lupe Whitaker - Shots came from west of TSBD.
39. Otis Neville Williams - Came from direction of Triple Underpass.
40. Steven F. Wilson - Shots came from west end of building or pergola; not above.
(He was on 3rd floor of TSBD)
41. Mary Elizabeth Woodward - Possibly came from overpass.
42. Abraham Zapruder - Shots came from in back of him.
43. Deputy Sheriff Harold Elkins
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"I haven't seen any evidence of others shooting at JFK in Dealey Plaza that day. I believe LHO was capable and acted without assistance."
You most likely weren't in DP at 12:30pm on 11/22/63.
Here are a few that were.
TESTIMONY OF (some of the) EYE-WITNESSES WHO THOUGHT SHOTS CAME FROM OTHER THAN TSBD
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=40392&relPageId=44
1. Danny Garcia Arces - Shots came from railroad track yards.
2. Mrs. Donald Sam Baker - Shots came from railroad yards;not possible to come from the TSBD.
3. Mrs. A. G.(Jane)Berry- Thought shots came from west of her position.
4. O. V. Campbell - Thought shots came from railroad yard to west of the TSBD.
5. Mrs. Charles Thomas (Avery) Davis - Thought shots came from triple underpass.
6. Mrs. John T. (Elsie) Dorman) - She was on the 4th floor of TSBD and thought shots came from Records Building.
7. Mr. and Mrs. Jack Franzen - Thought shots came from area adjacent to TSBD.
8. Buell Wesley Frazier - Thought shots came from railroad overpass.
9. Dorthy Ann Garner - Thought shots came from west of TSBD (she was on 4th floor or TSBD)
10. Bobby W. Hargis - Believes shot came from right front (grassy knoll area) - from overpass
11. Mrs. John Hawkins - Thought shots came from railroad yards adjacent to TSBD.
12. Mrs. Jean Lollis Hill - Thought shots were coming from the knoll, just west of the TSBD.
13. Postal Inspector Harry D. Holmes - Thought shots came from crowd.
14. Mrs. Yola D. Hopson - Did not think the sound (of the shots) came from the TSBD.
15. Emmet Joseph Hudson - Shots came from behind and above him; from rear, high. (He was on steps leading up knoll)
16. Mrs. George Andrew Kounas - Thought shots came from the west.
17. Secret Service Agent Paul E. Landis Jr. - 1st shot came from behind and over right shoulder; 2nd shot came from right front and hit President's head.
18. Billy Nolan Lovelady - Thought shots came from the knoll of from across the street.
19. Judith L. McCully - From right side of arcade building.
20. Austin Lawerence Miller - Shots came from his left (he was standing on the triple underpass).
21. A. J. Millican - Shots came from the pergola.
22. Joe R. Molina - Shots came from west side (he was on steps of TSBD.
23. Thomas J. Murphy - Shots came from spot just west of TSBD.
24. Mrs. P. E. Newman - Shots came from her right (west). She was halfway from TSBD to Stemmons Freeway sign.
25. William E Newman, Jr. - Shots came from "garden" directly behind Newman (he was standing at east end of pergola)
26. Mrs. William V. Parker - First shot came from pergola.
27. J. C. Price - Assumed shots from Triple Underpass.
28. Frank E. Reilly - Shots came from trees at west end of pergola on north side of Elm. (He was standing on Triple Underpass).
29. Mrs. A. L. Rowland - Shots came from railroad yard.
30. W. H. (Bill) Shelly - Shots came from west (he was on TSBD steps)
31. Police Officer Edgar Leon Smith, Jr. - Shots came from railroad yard or grassy knoll area.
32. Officer Joe Marshall Smith - Thought shots came from Elm St.extension, bushes of the overpass.
33. Secret Service Agent Forrest Sorrels - Shots came from knoll;'top of terrace to my right.
34. James Thomas Tague - Shots came from bushes at pergola.
35. Roy S. Truly - Shots came from west of TSBD.
36. Deputy Sheriff Harry Weatherford - Shots came from railroad yard.
37. County Surveyor Robert M. West - Shots came from northeast quadrant of Dealy Plaza.
38. Lupe Whitaker - Shots came from west of TSBD.
39. Otis Neville Williams - Came from direction of Triple Underpass.
40. Steven F. Wilson - Shots came from west end of building or pergola; not above.
(He was on 3rd floor of TSBD)
41. Mary Elizabeth Woodward - Possibly came from overpass.
42. Abraham Zapruder - Shots came from in back of him.
43. Deputy Sheriff Harold Elkins
That is what some witnesses said that they thought it sounded like. How many actually said that they saw another rifle (other than the one in the TSBD sixth floor window)?
-
"I haven't seen any evidence of others shooting at JFK in Dealey Plaza that day. I believe LHO was capable and acted without assistance."
You most likely weren't in DP at 12:30pm on 11/22/63.
Here are a few that were.
TESTIMONY OF (some of the) EYE-WITNESSES WHO THOUGHT SHOTS CAME FROM OTHER THAN TSBD
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=40392&relPageId=44
1. Danny Garcia Arces - Shots came from railroad track yards.
2. Mrs. Donald Sam Baker - Shots came from railroad yards;not possible to come from the TSBD.
3. Mrs. A. G.(Jane)Berry- Thought shots came from west of her position.
4. O. V. Campbell - Thought shots came from railroad yard to west of the TSBD.
5. Mrs. Charles Thomas (Avery) Davis - Thought shots came from triple underpass.
6. Mrs. John T. (Elsie) Dorman) - She was on the 4th floor of TSBD and thought shots came from Records Building.
7. Mr. and Mrs. Jack Franzen - Thought shots came from area adjacent to TSBD.
8. Buell Wesley Frazier - Thought shots came from railroad overpass.
9. Dorthy Ann Garner - Thought shots came from west of TSBD (she was on 4th floor or TSBD)
10. Bobby W. Hargis - Believes shot came from right front (grassy knoll area) - from overpass
11. Mrs. John Hawkins - Thought shots came from railroad yards adjacent to TSBD.
12. Mrs. Jean Lollis Hill - Thought shots were coming from the knoll, just west of the TSBD.
13. Postal Inspector Harry D. Holmes - Thought shots came from crowd.
14. Mrs. Yola D. Hopson - Did not think the sound (of the shots) came from the TSBD.
15. Emmet Joseph Hudson - Shots came from behind and above him; from rear, high. (He was on steps leading up knoll)
16. Mrs. George Andrew Kounas - Thought shots came from the west.
17. Secret Service Agent Paul E. Landis Jr. - 1st shot came from behind and over right shoulder; 2nd shot came from right front and hit President's head.
18. Billy Nolan Lovelady - Thought shots came from the knoll of from across the street.
19. Judith L. McCully - From right side of arcade building.
20. Austin Lawerence Miller - Shots came from his left (he was standing on the triple underpass).
21. A. J. Millican - Shots came from the pergola.
22. Joe R. Molina - Shots came from west side (he was on steps of TSBD.
23. Thomas J. Murphy - Shots came from spot just west of TSBD.
24. Mrs. P. E. Newman - Shots came from her right (west). She was halfway from TSBD to Stemmons Freeway sign.
25. William E Newman, Jr. - Shots came from "garden" directly behind Newman (he was standing at east end of pergola)
26. Mrs. William V. Parker - First shot came from pergola.
27. J. C. Price - Assumed shots from Triple Underpass.
28. Frank E. Reilly - Shots came from trees at west end of pergola on north side of Elm. (He was standing on Triple Underpass).
29. Mrs. A. L. Rowland - Shots came from railroad yard.
30. W. H. (Bill) Shelly - Shots came from west (he was on TSBD steps)
31. Police Officer Edgar Leon Smith, Jr. - Shots came from railroad yard or grassy knoll area.
32. Officer Joe Marshall Smith - Thought shots came from Elm St.extension, bushes of the overpass.
33. Secret Service Agent Forrest Sorrels - Shots came from knoll;'top of terrace to my right.
34. James Thomas Tague - Shots came from bushes at pergola.
35. Roy S. Truly - Shots came from west of TSBD.
36. Deputy Sheriff Harry Weatherford - Shots came from railroad yard.
37. County Surveyor Robert M. West - Shots came from northeast quadrant of Dealy Plaza.
38. Lupe Whitaker - Shots came from west of TSBD.
39. Otis Neville Williams - Came from direction of Triple Underpass.
40. Steven F. Wilson - Shots came from west end of building or pergola; not above.
(He was on 3rd floor of TSBD)
41. Mary Elizabeth Woodward - Possibly came from overpass.
42. Abraham Zapruder - Shots came from in back of him.
43. Deputy Sheriff Harold Elkins
22. Joe R. Molina - Shots came from west side (he was on steps of TSBD.
Is this the guy that the conspirators had hoped to frame as Lee's accomplice? Was Molina supposed to have been the man who had the 7.65 mauser?
But Molina messed up that act by being in plain sight at the time of the coup d e'tat.....
-
TESTIMONY OF (some of the) EYE-WITNESSES WHO THOUGHT SHOTS CAME FROM OTHER THAN TSBD
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=40392&relPageId=44
1. Danny Garcia Arces - Shots came from railroad track yards.
2. Mrs. Donald Sam Baker - Shots came from railroad yards;not possible to come from the TSBD.
3. Mrs. A. G.(Jane)Berry- Thought shots came from west of her position.
4. O. V. Campbell - Thought shots came from railroad yard to west of the TSBD.
5. Mrs. Charles Thomas (Avery) Davis - Thought shots came from triple underpass.
6. Mrs. John T. (Elsie) Dorman) - She was on the 4th floor of TSBD and thought shots came from Records Building.
7. Mr. and Mrs. Jack Franzen - Thought shots came from area adjacent to TSBD.
8. Buell Wesley Frazier - Thought shots came from railroad overpass.
9. Dorthy Ann Garner - Thought shots came from west of TSBD (she was on 4th floor or TSBD)
10. Bobby W. Hargis - Believes shot came from right front (grassy knoll area) - from overpass
11. Mrs. John Hawkins - Thought shots came from railroad yards adjacent to TSBD.
12. Mrs. Jean Lollis Hill - Thought shots were coming from the knoll, just west of the TSBD.
13. Postal Inspector Harry D. Holmes - Thought shots came from crowd.
14. Mrs. Yola D. Hopson - Did not think the sound (of the shots) came from the TSBD.
15. Emmet Joseph Hudson - Shots came from behind and above him; from rear, high. (He was on steps leading up knoll)
16. Mrs. George Andrew Kounas - Thought shots came from the west.
17. Secret Service Agent Paul E. Landis Jr. - 1st shot came from behind and over right shoulder; 2nd shot came from right front and hit President's head.
18. Billy Nolan Lovelady - Thought shots came from the knoll of from across the street.
19. Judith L. McCully - From right side of arcade building.
20. Austin Lawerence Miller - Shots came from his left (he was standing on the triple underpass).
21. A. J. Millican - Shots came from the pergola.
22. Joe R. Molina - Shots came from west side (he was on steps of TSBD.
23. Thomas J. Murphy - Shots came from spot just west of TSBD.
24. Mrs. P. E. Newman - Shots came from her right (west). She was halfway from TSBD to Stemmons Freeway sign.
25. William E Newman, Jr. - Shots came from "garden" directly behind Newman (he was standing at east end of pergola)
26. Mrs. William V. Parker - First shot came from pergola.
27. J. C. Price - Assumed shots from Triple Underpass.
28. Frank E. Reilly - Shots came from trees at west end of pergola on north side of Elm. (He was standing on Triple Underpass).
29. Mrs. A. L. Rowland - Shots came from railroad yard.
30. W. H. (Bill) Shelly - Shots came from west (he was on TSBD steps)
31. Police Officer Edgar Leon Smith, Jr. - Shots came from railroad yard or grassy knoll area.
32. Officer Joe Marshall Smith - Thought shots came from Elm St.extension, bushes of the overpass.
33. Secret Service Agent Forrest Sorrels - Shots came from knoll;'top of terrace to my right.
34. James Thomas Tague - Shots came from bushes at pergola.
35. Roy S. Truly - Shots came from west of TSBD.
36. Deputy Sheriff Harry Weatherford - Shots came from railroad yard.
37. County Surveyor Robert M. West - Shots came from northeast quadrant of Dealy Plaza.
38. Lupe Whitaker - Shots came from west of TSBD.
39. Otis Neville Williams - Came from direction of Triple Underpass.
40. Steven F. Wilson - Shots came from west end of building or pergola; not above.
(He was on 3rd floor of TSBD)
41. Mary Elizabeth Woodward - Possibly came from overpass.
42. Abraham Zapruder - Shots came from in back of him.
43. Deputy Sheriff Harold Elkins
All these people heard were echoes. Echoes can fool anyone.
-
That is what some witnesses said that they thought it sounded like. How many actually said that they saw another rifle (other than the one in the TSBD sixth floor window)?
The people in DP were there to see JFK & Jackie.
They were watching the Limo as it came/went down Elm.
Their eyes weren't focused on other areas of the Plaza.
The best that can be expected is what we got.
However there are witnesses who saw bullets hit in spots other than the Limo.
(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/pavement3.jpg)
(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/pavement2.jpg)
(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/pavement1.jpg)
(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/pavement.jpg)
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(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/Photo_hsca_ex_683.jpg)
(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/Photo_hsca_ex_682.jpg)
[(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/bullet_in_grass2.jpg)
[(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/bullet_in_grass.jpg)
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(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/hittingpavement4.jpg)
(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/hittingpavement3.jpg)
(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/hittingpavement2.jpg)
(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/hittingpavement1.jpg)
(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/hittingpavement.jpg)
-
The people in DP were there to see JFK & Jackie.
They were watching the Limo as it came/went down Elm.
Their eyes weren't focused on other areas of the Plaza.
The best that can be expected is what we got.
However there are witnesses who saw bullets hit in spots other than the Limo.
(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/pavement3.jpg)
(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/pavement2.jpg)
(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/pavement1.jpg)
(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/pavement.jpg)
However there are witnesses who saw bullets hit in spots other than the Limo.
Bullets travel too fast to be seen in real time by the naked eye. And because these bullets traveled faster than sound, they would have already been past the witnesses before they heard the sound. They might have seen debris flying from a bullet striking an object. And it appears to me that none of these accounts are inconsistent with either a shot that missed, or bullet fragment(s), that came from the TSBD sixth floor window.
-
Before me, the undersigned authority. on this the 22nd day of November 1963
petsonally appeared Mr J.C. Price Address 9602 Astor, Dallas
"This day at about 1235 PM I was on the roof of the Termaniel Annex Bldg on the
NE Corner when the presidential Motorcade came down Main to Houston, North on
Houston and then West on Elm. The cars had proceeded West on Elm and was
just a short distance from the Tripple underpass, when I saw Gov Connelly
slump over . I did not see the president as his car had gotten out of my
view under the underpass . There was a volley of shots, I think five and then
much later, maybe as much as five minutes later another one . I saw one man
run towards the passenger cars on the railroad siding after the volley of shots.
This man had a white dress shirt, no tie and kahki colored trousers . His hair
appeared to be long and dark and his agility running could be about 25 yrs of
age. He had something in his hand."
-snip-
-
Before me, the undersigned authority. on this the 22nd day of November 1963
petsonally appeared Mr J.C. Price Address 9602 Astor, Dallas
"This day at about 1235 PM I was on the roof of the Termaniel Annex Bldg on the
NE Corner when the presidential Motorcade came down Main to Houston, North on
Houston and then West on Elm. The cars had proceeded West on Elm and was
just a short distance from the Tripple underpass, when I saw Gov Connelly
slump over . I did not see the president as his car had gotten out of my
view under the underpass . There was a volley of shots, I think five and then
much later, maybe as much as five minutes later another one . I saw one man
run towards the passenger cars on the railroad siding after the volley of shots.
This man had a white dress shirt, no tie and kahki colored trousers . His hair
appeared to be long and dark and his agility running could be about 25 yrs of
age. He had something in his hand."
-snip-
So, about 5-minutes after the assassination he apparently saw JBC slump over and didn't see JFK because his car was already out of view under the underpass. According to this account JFK and JBC were in separate automobiles???
And about 5-minutes after that, he heard another shot. I think this account is the only one I have heard that makes that claim.
And he gives that detailed description of someone supposedly running away from him at a distance of 700 to 900 feet? Does anyone really have vision that is that good???
And you believe this crap in spite of all the contrary accounts???
-
So, about 5-minutes after the assassination he apparently saw JBC slump over and didn't see JFK because his car was already out of view under the underpass. According to this account JFK and JBC were in separate automobiles???
And about 5-minutes after that, he heard another shot. I think this account is the only one I have heard that makes that claim.
And he gives that detailed description of someone supposedly running away from him at a distance of 700 to 900 feet? Does anyone really have vision that is that good???
And you believe this crap in spite of all the contrary accounts???
Use a little common sense.
Most likely a typo, 5 seconds works just fine.
-
Use a little common sense.
Most likely a typo, 5 seconds works just fine.
Do you really think that he would have used the words: “and then much later, maybe as much as five minutes [sic!] later,...” if he actually meant only five seconds? I have to agree with John McAdams’ response on this:
“Yep, Price is a "conspiracy witness" in Lane's book, video, and in the
movie JFK. But given his time perception, there is no reason in the
world to believe the man he saw running was any sort of assassin or
accomplice. By five minutes after the shots, all sorts of people were
runing around.“
-
Really,?? Cuba was a threat to the US?? I don thank sooo.... Castro was a problem for the Mafia because he seized there gambling casinos and whore houses, which were very lucrative enterprises . And when he booted the Mafia out of Cuba they lost a base for smuggling drugs into the US....
Castro also hit HL Hunt pretty hard by seizing the refineries ( Sugar and OIL ) and Hunt was not a happy camper.
Excerpt from a 1991 interview of Georgie Anne Geyer on C-Span:
https://web.archive.org/web/20111011174333/http://booknotes.org/Watch/17009-1/Georgie+Anne+Geyer.aspx (https://web.archive.org/web/20111011174333/http://booknotes.org/Watch/17009-1/Georgie+Anne+Geyer.aspx)
LAMB: You have a rundown of the number of Cuban soldiers that were in these different countries -- 57,000 troops in Angola; 5,000 to 7,000 in Ethiopia, hundreds and thousands from South Yemen to Libya, Nicaragua, Mozambique, Syria, Equatorial Guinea -- it goes on and on. Why Cubans all over the world?
GEYER: Well, Brian, that's what's so extraordinary about Castro. I don't mean extraordinary in a desirable way, but as a power study, Fidel Castro took this little island with basically no economy except sugar -- he's destroyed that -- and he created power out of this powerlessness and power on a world stage. Those were the figures in those countries at the height of his guerrilla power, his imperialist power, if you will. When he went into Angola in 1974, he moved thousands of troops across the Atlantic. For the first time in history, troops were going across the Atlantic not from the United States but from this little island in the Caribbean. He's an incredible military man, but he can't do anything else. Everything in Cuba is so militarized. It's not communist, it's not collectivist, it's not Marxist. It is pure Third World military. If you admire military power and the mind that goes behind that, then Fidel Castro is a very interesting man.
LAMB: Where are there Cuban troops today? Anywhere?
GEYER: They're basically all coming home. The 57,000 or 58,000 troops that were in Angola are mostly home now, and that's his big problem. The other countries are also clearing out. His big problem, Brian is these 57,000 or 58,000 Cubans come home from Angola, and there is no economy to absorb them. There are no jobs. Two years ago he executed the hero of Angola, Gen. Arnoldo Ochoa -- this very excellent military officer, a quintessentially honorable man, handsome long-beaked nose, had served in Ethiopia, Angola, Nicaragua. Very loyal to Fidel, but you see, Arnoldo Ochoa did something terrible. He became a competitor to Fidel, and he never, ever allows anyone to become a competitor. He moves them out, he kills them, puts them in prison, puts them under house arrest -- whatever is the appropriate thing. The only appropriate thing in Fidel's mind for Arnoldo Ochoa was to be executed. If you see those films of that trial of Ochoa which was now two years ago this spring, it's just chilling because you could see the men -- there were four of them that were executed together -- in this Moscow-type of trial from the '30s. They looked down, they wouldn't look up. Some of them just broke down on the stands. You could see how false the whole thing was. It's a very chilling, surreal kind of place.
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The " very excellent military officer", Ochoa, and his colleagues were convicted of drug smuggling, and subsequently executed.
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The " very excellent military officer", Ochoa, and his colleagues were convicted of drug smuggling, and subsequently executed.
Another passage from Guerrilla Prince by Georgie Anne Geyer:
“The Ochoa "trial" that ensued shocked awake a world that had refused, before, to look with any seriousness at the way Castro used courts, trials, and his own forms of "justice." The handsome, gallant Ochoa, with his black curly hair and his long, aquiline nose, sat impassively in the courtroom in his light gray dress uniform. He looked like a man stunned, or drugged, as he stared vacuously at the floor. When Castro accused him of drug-running, Ochoa could only say finally that, even if he faced execution, "My last thought will be of Fidel, and the great Revolution he has given our people." It was the Moscow trials of the early 1930s all over again, when Stalin's closest and most innocent associates had stood up in court and veritably demanded their own deaths. But it was more than that: it was another one of Castro's personally devised "trials," in which he had since Moncada changed, and transformed, and again changed legality. In the surrealistic world that Castro had turned Cuba into, the military tribunal that tried Ochoa was even actually a legally nonexistent body. (The law on military tribunals, article 5, establishes only three jurisdictional bodies, and this was not one.) But, then, the tribunal was also composed of members ineligible for service and the testimony that convicted Ochoa, his own, was legally inadmissible. In the end, Arnaldo Ochoa, like the Moscow trial defendants, was more willing to die than to admit that his life had been lived in the services of a false ideal — and, of course, there was the question of whether he wanted his children to live. . . .”
By the way, many times this book gave me that Paul Harvey cliche feeling of: “now you know the rest of the story!” Definitely a worthwhile book!
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Here is a passage from “Guerrilla Prince by Georgie Anne Geyer that makes me wonder:
“Castro was at Varadero that Friday, talking with the editor of the French journal, L’Express, Jean Daniel. Ironically, Daniel was ostensibly there to discuss a possible rapprochement between Kennedy and Castro. It was Oscar Mori, the man who managed the Varadero property for Fidel, who first told Castro the astounding news that President Kennedy had been shot. Mori is very precise about exactly what happened. "I have books about what Fidel said and what Fidel did not say, and I know because I was the one who gave him the news. ... He did nothing. Not a gesture, not the bat of an eye. The only thing he did was not to speak anymore. He went to the living room, he sat down, and he did not say anything. His expression? It was one of sadness."
Jean Daniel recalled that Castro went to the phone. “‘¿Cómo?’ he said. ‘¿Un atentado?’ — ‘What's that? An attempted assassination?’ He then turned to us to say that Kennedy had just been struck down in Dallas," Daniel wrote. "Then he went back to the telephone and exclaimed in a loud voice, 'Wounded? Very seriously?' He came back, sat down and repeated three times the words, 'This is bad news.' He remained silent for a moment, awaiting another call with further news."
The passage is divided into two different paragraphs. Which indicates to me that the two accounts are separate. The first one is by Oscar Mori; and the second one is by Jean Daniel. In Oscar’s account, he indicates that he personally broke the news of the assassination to Castro and was physically there with Castro to see his reaction. However, in Jean Daniel’s account Castro appears to have received the news of the assassination over the phone.
I have a theory that this discrepancy between the two accounts might indicate that the phone call in Jean Daniel’s account was staged by Castro to make it look like they were with Castro as he “learned the news” of the assassination (after he had already been told the news by Moro). In other words, what Jean Daniel saw might have been an act put on by Castro for the benefit of the journalist (and therefore the record) shortly after he learned the news from Moro.
Anyone else know anything that might confirm or derail this theory?
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Really,?? Cuba was a threat to the US?? I don thank sooo.... Castro was a problem for the Mafia because he seized there gambling casinos and whore houses, which were very lucrative enterprises . And when he booted the Mafia out of Cuba they lost a base for smuggling drugs into the US....
Castro also hit HL Hunt pretty hard by seizing the refineries ( Sugar and OIL ) and Hunt was not a happy camper.
LAMB: Then you also say this: "He was in substantial part responsible for the fall of Nikita Khrushchev, for bringing the world to the brink of nuclear war in the Missile Crisis" -- the Cuban missile crisis -- "for John Kennedy's death, for the massive and threatening Central American immigration to the Texas borders, for America's humiliation at the Bay of Pigs." There's more. And then you say -- I've got to read the last sentence -- "Hell, he once even overthrew the government in Zanzibar." One person is responsible for all this?
GEYER: I know it sounds extravagant but believe me, it is not. Nikita Khrushchev was overthrown within the Kremlin by his own people because of his failures in the missile crisis. There's no question. All the historians say that. Who got him into the missile crisis? Who got missiles into Cuba? It was Fidel Castro. He was telling Khrushchev right after the Bay of Pigs constantly, "The Americans are going to invade again. This time it's going to be American soldiers. You've got to protect me." Khrushchev wanted to put missiles in Cuba to make this geopolitical leap to the Western Hemisphere. After the Bay of Pigs, the Kennedy brothers, particularly Bobby, could never give up. They had to go on trying to assassinate Fidel. The whole thing became such a bag of worms. Without Fidel Castro, believe me, none of that would have happened.
LAMB: The death of John Kennedy?
GEYER: I can't prove anything and nobody can, Brian, but when you look at the evidence, I don't see how any discerning or discriminating person cannot come away without saying the evidence points to Fidel Castro's involvement. Lyndon Johnson told four people -- including my dear friend Marianne Means, the Hearst columnist -- he told them outright that Fidel Castro was behind the Kennedy assassination. Again, I'm not saying that Fidel personally could have caused all these, but he was the deciding hand. He was defining the guerrilla movements, he defined their ideology. He made it possible for them by giving them arms, by giving them sanctuary, by giving them training. That is the Third World genius of this man, that he created this world of military tactics and guerrillas and irregular warfare in our time.
https://web.archive.org/web/20111011174333/http://booknotes.org/Watch/17009-1/Georgie+Anne+Geyer.aspx