JFK Assassination Forum
Off Topic => News - Off Topic - Weird & Wacky => Topic started by: Joe Elliott on April 24, 2022, 03:50:33 AM
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I'm not getting in the car.
https://www.newsweek.com/pence-refusing-get-secret-service-car-jan-6-chilling-raskin-1700341
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/mike-pence-capitol-insurrection-secret-service-certify-vote_n_60f23b69e4b0a771e80437da
It appears that Trump’s plan was to have the Secret Service take Vice President Pence out of the Capitol and drive him to Joint Base Andrews, which would prevent him from certifying the election of Joseph Biden. It will be interesting to hear the sworn testimony of Secret Service agents regarding exactly what where their orders and intentions on January 6.
I am confident, that as far as the election of Donald Trump in 2024, America is not going to get into that car, ever again.
Quote from Vice President Mike Pence, January 6, 2021:
“To those who wreaked havoc in our Capitol today, you did not win. Violence never wins. Freedom wins. And this is still the people’s house.”
Maybe Pence did waver in the early days of January 2021. But someone, maybe Dan Quayle, maybe something deep within Mike Pence himself, put some steel into his backbone. And he did good that day. I will never forget that.
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Yep, that was the main part of their coup to steal the election from us.
Getting Pence out of the way so he couldn't certify the vote total for Biden's victory was their whole plan.
Let's not forget the old dinosaur Chuck Grassley let it slip on Jan 5th when he said that "they don't expect Pence to be there" to certify the vote and Grassley will preside over it himself.
Why would Grassley say "they don't expect Pence to be there" an entire day before the certification and he will preside over it? Because their plan was to get Pence out of there and put Grassley in charge to not certify Biden's victory.
All of these right wing treasonous traitors will be headed to prison when it's all said and done. Rep. Jamie Raskin said the May hearings will "blow the roof off the house" with all the info that will be released.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FREJddzWQAEyBCv?format=jpg&name=medium)
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Yep, that was the main part of their coup to steal the election from us.
Getting Pence out of the way so he couldn't certify the vote total for Biden's victory was their whole plan.
Let's not forget the old dinosaur Chuck Grassley let it slip on Jan 5th when he said that "they don't expect Pence to be there" to certify the vote and Grassley will preside over it himself.
Why would Grassley say "they don't expect Pence to be there" an entire day before the certification and he will preside over it? Because their plan was to get Pence out of there and put Grassley in charge to not certify Biden's victory.
All of these right wing treasonous traitors will be headed to prison when it's all said and done. Rep. Jamie Raskin said the May hearings will "blow the roof off the house" with all the info that will be released.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FREJddzWQAEyBCv?format=jpg&name=medium)
Yes, this does make sense. For this plan to work, Trump would need to consult with Senator Grassley, to find out what we would be willing to do, to find out if removing Pence will work. It would all be for naught if Grassley refused to go along. The plan would than become to remove Pence and Grassley, if that was the case. Obviously, Grassley indicated that he would cooperate with the plan. And then Grassley forgot that he was not supposed to know that Pence might not be in attendance the next day. Oops. Grassley tried to “clarify” what me meant later on January 5, but I don’t believe him.
One thing I am curious to know is, what is the Secret Service’s idea of their mission. It is simply to protect the lives of the President and Vice President and their families? Or is there more to be involved. Is it to not just keep the Vice President alive, but to also allow him fulfill his mission? Is their mission successful if they save his life, but allow the office of the Vice President “to be assassinated”? Is their ultimate loyalty to the President or to the Constitution? I would like them to be questioned in Congress to hear what their opinions on this subject was on January 6 and what their opinions are now.
And if they don’t already, I would like every member of the Secret Service to take an oath similar if not identical to the oath taken by member of our military. To protect and defend the Constitution, against All enemies, both foreign and domestic. Particularly against the domestic enemies of high office. I want it to be made clear to me, and clear to them, what their ultimate mission is.
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Yes, this does make sense. For this plan to work, Trump would need to consult with Senator Grassley, to find out what we would be willing to do, to find out if removing Pence will work. It would all be for naught if Grassley refused to go along. The plan would than become to remove Pence and Grassley, if that was the case. Obviously, Grassley indicated that he would cooperate with the plan. And then Grassley forgot that he was not supposed to know that Pence might not be in attendance the next day. Oops. Grassley tried to “clarify” what me meant later on January 5, but I don’t believe him.
One thing I am curious to know is, what is the Secret Service’s idea of their mission. It is simply to protect the lives of the President and Vice President and their families? Or is there more to be involved. Is it to not just keep the Vice President alive, but to also allow him fulfill his mission? Is their mission successful if they save his life, but allow the office of the Vice President “to be assassinated”? Is their ultimate loyalty to the President or to the Constitution? I would like them to be questioned in Congress to hear what their opinions on this subject was on January 6 and what their opinions are now.
And if they don’t already, I would like every member of the Secret Service to take an oath similar if not identical to the oath taken by member of our military. To protect and defend the Constitution, against All enemies, both foreign and domestic. Particularly against the domestic enemies of high office. I want it to be made clear to me, and clear to them, what their ultimate mission is.
Yes, they all need to be questioned regarding what they were doing leading up to Jan 6th and on that exact day. A report that just came out said that one SS agent tipped off Pence what was going down so then he refused to get in the car.
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New Details On Why Pence Refused To Get In Secret Service Car On Jan. 6
After the mob breached the building on Jan. 6, the Secret Service hustled Mike Pence out. They wanted to take him away from the Capitol, but he refused to go. Why didn’t he want to go?
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New Details On Why Pence Refused To Get In Secret Service Car On Jan. 6
After the mob breached the building on Jan. 6, the Secret Service hustled Mike Pence out. They wanted to take him away from the Capitol, but he refused to go. Why didn’t he want to go?
Wow. This lays out a possible interesting scenario. Maybe Trump was on the verge of success. Maybe Pence was about the into that car. He did, after all, go down a lot of stairs into a parking garage. Where did they think they were going? To McDonalds? Pence might be within seconds of getting into that car. Trump might be on the verge of success. If driven away, Trump’s man, Secret Service agent Anthony Ornato is in control. He may decide it is just too dangerous for Pence to return to the Capitol that night. The president pro tempore emeritus Senator Grassley would just have to carry out the duty the Vice President would normally do.
But, within seconds of success, Mike Pence sees Trump’s latest tweet”
"Mike Pence didn't have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution, giving States a chance to certify a corrected set of facts, not the fraudulent or inaccurate ones which they were asked to previously certify. USA demands the truth!"
Perhaps that is what bucked him up. No courage, hey? Well, I’ll show him courage.
The tweet intended to remind the rioters that Pence was the main target (as if Trump hadn’t made that very clear already) may have blown it for him. A tweet too far.
At the top of my list, I want Secret Service agent Anthony M. Ornato to be grilled by Congress. He could lie. But if he shared his intentions with other agents, that could be dangerous.
If I understand things correctly, Trump appointed Ornato, in December 2020, to a position where he directs the Secret Service, as far as making decisions on whether someone they are protecting needs to be moved or not. That is very suspicious. I think, at the very least, there is enough doubt about the loyalty of Anthony Ornato, to the Constitution, that he should be removed from the Secret Service. The motto of the United States Secret Service is "Worthy of Trust & Confidence". If that motto is to be followed, Ornato must go.
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Pence Refusing to Get in Secret Service Car on Jan. 6 'Chilling'
https://www.newsweek.com/pence-refusing-get-secret-service-car-jan-6-chilling-raskin-1700341
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Pence is central in Jan. 6 investigation as 'constitutional patriot' who defied Trump, became mob target
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/06/08/pence-jan-6-probe-defied-trump-mob-target/9932030002/?gnt-cfr=1
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Not only did the SS try to take Pence away from the Capitol which would have prevented him from doing his duty of presiding over the Electoral certification, all of the SS's text messages on Jan 5 and Jan 6 were deleted and just "disappeared" into the thin air.
This is a total cover up.
Secret Service was told at least once before Jan. 6, 2021, to preserve texts
Two emails, at least one before Jan. 6, told agency staffers to preserve records on their phones. A third in February 2021 told them to preserve communications specific to Jan. 6.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/secret-service-was-told-least-jan-6-2021-preserve-texts-rcna39129
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The USSS cover up contiues.
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A criminal probe has been opened into deletion of Secret Service Jan. 6 text messages.
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A criminal probe has been opened into deletion of Secret Service Jan. 6 text messages.
I suspect the test messages were deleted, not to protect Trump, but to protect certain Secret Service Agents. Likely texts related to instructions (ultimately from Trump) to drive Pence from the Capitol and keep him away "for his own safety". Then the process of certifying Biden's victory would be thrown into chaos. Possibly Trump could be certified as the winner, or at least the certificates sent back to the states, throwing things into chaos.
The DOJ just instructed the Secret Service not to continue their search for the deleted text messages. This makes sense. If the Secret Service found a backup of these messages, they would probably just delete them. Asking them to find the messages is like asking the main suspects of a burglary to go into a house and collect evidence. They would probably just put on gloves and proceed to wipe down everything to remove fingerprints. Some other agency needs to do conduct this search, not them.
What we are supposed to believe is the Secret Service just happened to switch equipment, which resulted in the January 5 and 6 messages being deleted. Then in late January, they got instructions to save these messages. But they kept silent about these messages had just be erased. If they had immediately informed congress the messages had been erased, copies likely would have been found on various servers. Now, after 18 months, maybe this is no longer possible.
Clearly the Secret Service is up to no good. Maybe there is not enough evidence for criminal charges. But everyone who was, or may have been involved in deleting these messages, needs to be fired. We can't have agents whose loyalty to the Constitution is questionable.
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OIG asks Secret Service to stop internal investigation into ‘erased’ texts
https://thehill.com/policy/technology/3569417-oig-asks-secret-service-to-stop-internal-investigation-into-erased-texts/
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I suspect the test messages were deleted, not to protect Trump, but to protect certain Secret Service Agents. Likely texts related to instructions (ultimately from Trump) to drive Pence from the Capitol and keep him away "for his own safety". Then the process of certifying Biden's victory would be thrown into chaos. Possibly Trump could be certified as the winner, or at least the certificates sent back to the states, throwing things into chaos.
The DOJ just instructed the Secret Service not to continue their search for the deleted text messages. This makes sense. If the Secret Service found a backup of these messages, they would probably just delete them. Asking them to find the messages is like asking the main suspects of a burglary to go into a house and collect evidence. They would probably just put on gloves and proceed to wipe down everything to remove fingerprints. Some other agency needs to do conduct this search, not them.
What we are supposed to believe is the Secret Service just happened to switch equipment, which resulted in the January 5 and 6 messages being deleted. Then in late January, they got instructions to save these messages. But they kept silent about these messages had just be erased. If they had immediately informed congress the messages had been erased, copies likely would have been found on various servers. Now, after 18 months, maybe this is no longer possible.
Clearly the Secret Service is up to no good. Maybe there is not enough evidence for criminal charges. But everyone who was, or may have been involved in deleting these messages, needs to be fired. We can't have agents whose loyalty to the Constitution is questionable.
I believe it's actually both. Criminal Donald corrupted the Secret Service just like he did the DOJ. The texts were deleted to protect Donnie and the agents communications on Jan 6.
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Pence's Secret Service agents called family to say good-bye on Jan. 6
The House select committee released dramatic footage detailing the chaos in Vice President Mike Pence’s office on Jan. 6, 2021.
Watch:
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Secret Service waited to tell Capitol Police of Pelosi threat until the Jan. 6 riot was underway
https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Secret-Service-waited-to-tell-Capitol-Police-of-17380259.php
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Humm, I don't know about this. At worse, this would have been only a delaying tactic. Once the riot was under control, Pence could have been brought back to the Capitol to certify the election. Taking Pence far away would have kept Pence from the Capitol for no more than a few hours.
I agree, however, that this looks very bad. If it was Trump's intent to delay certification by having Pence taken far away for a while, this would further discredit Trump.
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Humm, I don't know about this. At worse, this would have been only a delaying tactic. Once the riot was under control, Pence could have been brought back to the Capitol to certify the election. Taking Pence far away would have kept Pence from the Capitol for no more than a few hours.
I agree, however, that this looks very bad. If it was Trump's intent to delay certification by having Pence taken far away for a while, this would further discredit Trump.
Yes, if Pence is driven away from the Capitol, he could always be driven back to preside over the official counting of the Electoral votes. Unless the Secret Service, possibly acting under President Trump's orders, determines that it is still too dangerous for Pence to return to the Capitol. In which case a senator, possibly Chuck Grassley, would take over those duties. And the same pressure put on Pence would be put on that senator.
The following story shows that Senator Grassley was informed, by January 5, that Pence might not be able to perform his duties on January 6. So there seems to be some sort of scheme of this sort afoot.
https://iowacapitaldispatch.com/2021/01/05/grassley-suggests-he-may-preside-over-senate-debate-on-electoral-college-votes/
Another article on this is at:
https://iowastartingline.com/2022/06/01/report-trump-lawyer-wanted-grassley-to-help-overturn-2020-election/
So the critical question about the Secret Service agents guarding Pence is, was their loyalty to the Constitution or was it to President Trump? If it was to Trump, I doubt Pence would have been driven back to the Capitol in time to oversee the counting of the Electoral votes. The deletion of all the Secret Service texts is a strong indicator that their loyalty was not to the Constitution.
So, Mike Pence's decision not to get into that car may very well have been a watershed event. A true turning point in history. And that decision may have been made as a result of the tweet that Trump sent out to his rioters, and which also reached Pence about the time he reached the garage:
"Mike Pence didn't have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution, giving States a chance to certify a corrected set of facts, not the fraudulent or inaccurate ones which they were asked to previously certify. USA demands the truth!"
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(https://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/bg082222dAPR20220822024503.jpg)
The spitting images of Nasty Pelosi on the left and Mitch McConnell on the right.
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(https://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/bg082222dAPR20220822024503.jpg)
The spitting images of Nasty Pelosi on the left and Mitch McConnell on the right.
I get the impression that you are not a big fan of democracy. Which explains why you gravitate toward the CT side of the JFK assassination issue. I think that, in general, CTers are not big believers in democracy. Not in America nor anywhere else.
Republicans and Democrats are spitting images of each other? One side supports making America into an Authoritarian regime, a Dictatorship. The other side supports maintaining Democracy, allowing the people to vote for their representatives.
I have disagreed, to some extent, with some of the Democratic party's policies. But as long as Republicans support Authoritarianism, I am voting strictly Democratic. Up until January 2021, I was a lifelong Republican, as was my father and grandfather. I now expect that I will never vote for a Republican candidate again. Certain not for one who does not condemn Trump's to overturn the election. Though I am not a Republican, I think, that fundamentally, I am still a Republican. Because, at the most basic level, what is a Republican? It is one who supports and believes in and would never betray the government of the people, by the people, for the people.
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I get the impression that you are not a big fan of democracy. I think that, in general, CTers are not big believers in democracy. Not in America nor anywhere else.
The US Constitution establishes a Republic...not a 'democracy'. If this country were actually a true democracy that would mean that the top dozen or so cities would decide who runs the USA. The rest of us could just fk off. That is the Democrat Party's agenda.
Republicans and Democrats are spitting images of each other? One side supports making America into an Authoritarian regime, a Dictatorship. The other side supports maintaining Democracy, allowing the people to vote for their representatives.
I just stated as much above.
Though I am not a Republican, I think, that fundamentally, I am still a Republican. Because, at the most basic level, what is a Republican? It is one who supports and believes in and would never betray the government of the people, by the people, for the people.
Nor am I a Republican. I identify mostly as a Libertarian.
The Libertarian Party (LP) is a political party in the United States that promotes civil liberties, non-interventionism, laissez-faire capitalism, and limiting the size and scope of government.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_Party_(United_States)
Also... I am not a conspiracy theorist and I am a veteran of the US Navy and proudly served our country.
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The US Constitution establishes a Republic...not a 'democracy'. If this country were actually a true democracy that would mean that the top dozen or so cities would decide who runs the USA. The rest of us could just fk off. That is the Democrat Party's agenda.
It is true, that originally, the United States was not a true democracy. But by around 1830, it was, at least to a certain extent, while still limited to white males. And it has continued to evolve into a truer and truer democracy ever since. And all has been done under the rules of the Constitution.
In any case I no longer suspect you do not support democracy. I know you do not. At best you support democracy, unless you find some excuse not to. Like if the voters who support the side you are against happen to be concentrated in "a dozen or so large cities". "If we ignore those voters, we are in the majority". No, you're not.
Also... I am not a conspiracy theorist and I am a veteran of the US Navy and proudly served our country.
You can be a both a veteran and a conspiracy theorist.
Questions:
You do believe that there was a conspiracy to kill JFK, do you not?
How many do you think were involved in killing JFK?
What do you think was most likely the goal of the conspirators?
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I have answered all these questions on the the other board. You know that.
You do believe that there was a conspiracy to kill JFK, do you not?
That would not necessarily make it a theory being that the lone gunman theory is a demonstrated proven covered up fraud.
How many do you think were involved in killing JFK?
I haven't the foggiest clue so I won't theorize further.
What do you think was most likely the goal of the conspirators?
The very undemocratic goal of removing the Chief Executive and reversing the election [obviously]
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Criminal Donald and his thugs tried to get the Secret Service to take Pence away so he couldn't certify Joe Biden's electoral victory.
Old man Chuck Grassley said he was going to take over the duty.
The GOP are treasonous traitors.
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I have answered all these questions on the the other board.
You know that.That would not necessarily make it a theory being that the lone gunman theory is a demonstrated proven covered up fraud.
OK. You claim that you are not a 'Conspiracy Theory Believer'. Instead, you are a 'Conspiracy Fact Believer'. The truth is that you are a CTer.
It is surprising how many CTers are reluctant to admit that they are CTers. That is not true of LNers. I have never met a LNer who says 'I'm not really a LNer. I just believe the truth'.
I am a LNer. One who believes that Oswald probably did murder President Kennedy and did so alone. But, of course, this belief, like all my beliefs, are subject to change with new evidence. Unlike your beliefs, which you know to be true. And your belief in a conspiracy to murder President Kennedy can never be reversed.
I believe you also said this was done, in part, to allow the United States to get into the Vietnam war.
Believers in Large-Secret-Enduring Conspiracies always claim they are actually Small-Secret-Enduring Conspiracy believers. They may write one month that this group was involved in the conspiracy. And another group a month later. But when challenged, they par down their list a lot and say just a small number was involved. But, they give themselves away by stating the goal. It's always a goal that would require a large number of people.
Like a conspiracy to hide the existence of alien spacecrafts, even though they are fairly common. Requiring a small army of men in black with memory erasers.
Or to steer the United States into a major war it should not be getting into. Which would also require a large number of people.
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I am a LNer. One who believes that Oswald probably did murder President Kennedy...
"Probably"? That removes certainty. subject to change with new evidence
The old evidence proves my point.which you know to be true.
The truth is-- --all men are liars.
.. Ps 116;11
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I am a LNer. One who believes that Oswald probably did murder President Kennedy...
"Probably"? That removes certainty.
Yes. It does. Nothing is certain.
The old evidence proves my point.
If you say so.
The truth is--
--all men are liars.
Ps 116;11
Yeah? And why should I believe anyone who writes that? Even if it is in the bible?
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And now magically the Jan 6 SS texts all disappear. This is a cover up and all involved must go to prison.
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Secret Service Official at Center of Probe Retires
"Tony Ornato, the senior Secret Service official who served as a top aide in Donald Trump’s White House and faced scrutiny from the Jan. 6 select committee earlier this summer, announced his retirement Monday,” Politico reports.
“The agency confirmed Ornato’s retirement, which was announced internally earlier in the day. He’s the latest high-level official in the Secret Service to announce his departure in recent weeks. Spokesperson Anthony Guglielmi said Ornato — who joined the Secret Service in 1997 — became eligible for retirement earlier this year and leaves the agency in good standing.”
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/08/29/secret-service-jan-6-probe-trump-00054127
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Secret Service Official at Center of Probe Retires
"Tony Ornato, the senior Secret Service official who served as a top aide in Donald Trump’s White House and faced scrutiny from the Jan. 6 select committee earlier this summer, announced his retirement Monday,” Politico reports.
“The agency confirmed Ornato’s retirement, which was announced internally earlier in the day. He’s the latest high-level official in the Secret Service to announce his departure in recent weeks. Spokesperson Anthony Guglielmi said Ornato — who joined the Secret Service in 1997 — became eligible for retirement earlier this year and leaves the agency in good standing.”
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/08/29/secret-service-jan-6-probe-trump-00054127
I wonder what one would have to do to leave the Secret Serivce in bad standing?
In my opinion, Tony Ornato was a much worse Secret Service agent than William Greer and Roy Kellerman, who have been severely criticized for their slow reaction to shooting during a Presidential motorcade escorted by backfiring motorcycles.
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Pence's Secret Service detail at Capitol on Jan. 6 were "starting to fear for their own lives" as violence escalated, witness tells select committee
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pence-secret-service-jan-6-capitol-fear-lives/
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Secret Service, NSC feared Pence would be trapped at Capitol on Jan. 6
https://www.axios.com/2022/07/22/mike-pence-jan-6-hearing-insurrection
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Now that Donnie is about to be indicted for espionage, it will be interesting to know what Pence told the grand jury about January 6th.
Pence testifies to federal grand jury investigating Trump and Jan. 6
Watch:
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WATCH: Why Mike Pence refused to leave the Capitol on Jan. 6