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Author Topic: Reclaiming Misery aka Reclaiming History  (Read 9065 times)

Online Jerry Freeman

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Reclaiming Misery aka Reclaiming History
« on: July 08, 2018, 03:16:46 AM »
Never read it. However curiosity has gotten the better of me lately with all the adnauseum posting citing Vincent Bugliosi as the foremost guru of the Warren Report defenders.
I was called out because I accused VB of lying.
I mean he was a lawyer for Pete's sake!
So I glanced at the Amazon books preview of Reclaiming History.
He admits in his introduction that he wrote Reclaiming because there was not enough balance in conspiracy vs pro WC books.
OK.
Also in the intro.....VB says that LBJ was strongly opposed to forming a commission [as an investigating body] that it should have been handled by the State of Texas Attny General's office.
"We can't interfere with local jurisdiction" VB "quotes" Johnson [somehow]
1. Never heard that one before.
2. How did Vince manage to find this out? Was it in the papers?
3. If it were true... then why did Johnson order Kennedy's body & the presidential car zipped back to DC first thing- straight-a-way??

Bugliosi scoffs at the idea of a conspiracy with every other word.
And the lemmings follow suit.
Those who would appear to have had the most motive for the removal of President Kennedy were the least considered of his list of suspects which only contained one name.
There is a youtube that they made called The Trial of Lee Oswald. VB as the prosecution... slams the ghost of Oswald with barely a peep from the defense [Gerry Spence]
With oratory zeal Bugliosi proclaimed that Oswald [after there was a TSBD roll call] "was the only one missing...the only one mind you!"
We know there was no 'roll call' and Oswald was not the only one missing.
With out any objection from the defense attorney who obviously knew nothing about this case.
 

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Reclaiming Misery aka Reclaiming History
« on: July 08, 2018, 03:16:46 AM »

Offline David Von Pein

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Re: Reclaiming Misery aka Reclaiming History
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2018, 03:48:25 AM »
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We know there was no 'roll call'...

Buell Frazier said there definitely was a roll call:

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"They read names off, and you had to answer." -- Buell Wesley Frazier; June 21, 2002

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Complete 2-Hour Interview With Frazier:

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Related Link (re: the "roll call"):

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« Last Edit: July 08, 2018, 04:20:34 AM by David Von Pein »

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Reclaiming Misery aka Reclaiming History
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2018, 04:11:36 AM »
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Buell Frazier said there definitely was a roll call:

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"They read names off, and you had to answer." -- Buell Wesley Frazier; June 21, 2002

Complete 2-Hour Interview:

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Would this be the same Buell Frazier who also said that Oswald carried the paper bag in the cup of his hand and under his armpit?

He said it on day one and is still saying it to this day?..

So why accept something he said once in 2002 about a roll call and not what he said from day one?
« Last Edit: July 08, 2018, 05:38:59 AM by Martin Weidmann »

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Re: Reclaiming Misery aka Reclaiming History
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2018, 04:11:36 AM »

Offline David Von Pein

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Re: Reclaiming Misery aka Reclaiming History
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2018, 04:29:27 AM »
?At the London trial, Wesley Frazier testified that "everyone was present [at the roll call] except Mr. Oswald." (Transcript of "On Trial: Lee Harvey Oswald", July 23, 1986, p.38).

Billy Lovelady told the media back in 1964 that "a roll call was taken of the dozen or so men in my work gang. Only Oswald was missing" (New York Herald Tribune, May 24, 1964, p.10).?

-- Via Vincent Bugliosi's "Reclaiming History"

Offline David Von Pein

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Re: Reclaiming Misery aka Reclaiming History
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2018, 04:34:23 AM »
But then there's the other side of the "Roll Call" coin, provided by TSBD Superintendent Roy Truly, whose WC testimony certainly indicates there was NO roll call at all (which has to make you wonder why Billy Lovelady told a New York newspaper in 1964 that there was a "roll call", and why Buell Wesley Frazier told Vincent Bugliosi in 1986 and Gary Mack in 2002 that he remembers the details of a "roll call" as well).

However, this testimony by Mr. Truly doesn't completely eliminate the possibility that a roll call could have been conducted by William Shelley at some point in time on November 22nd, although you'd think if that had been the case, Truly would have at least been aware of it. ~shrug~ ....

JOSEPH A. BALL -- "Did you make a check of your employees afterwards?"

ROY S. TRULY -- "No, no; not complete. No, I just saw the group of the employees over there on the floor and I noticed this boy [Lee Oswald] wasn't with them. With no thought in my mind except that I had seen him a short time before in the building, I noticed he wasn't there."
« Last Edit: July 08, 2018, 04:55:32 AM by David Von Pein »

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Re: Reclaiming Misery aka Reclaiming History
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2018, 04:34:23 AM »

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Reclaiming Misery aka Reclaiming History
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2018, 05:14:59 AM »
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?At the London trial, Wesley Frazier testified that "everyone was present [at the roll call] except Mr. Oswald." (Transcript of "On Trial: Lee Harvey Oswald", July 23, 1986, p.38).

Billy Lovelady told the media back in 1964 that "a roll call was taken of the dozen or so men in my work gang. Only Oswald was missing" (New York Herald Tribune, May 24, 1964, p.10).?

-- Via Vincent Bugliosi's "Reclaiming History"

Fine, you accept Frazier's word for the roll call....

How about the way he described Oswald carried the package?

Online Jerry Freeman

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Re: Reclaiming Misery aka Reclaiming History
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2018, 01:19:34 PM »
 
Quote
They read names off, and you had to answer. 

And everybody was present except for Oswald?
I guess we need to have a roll call to see if there was a roll call

 
 

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Re: Reclaiming Misery aka Reclaiming History
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2018, 01:19:34 PM »

Offline Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: Reclaiming Misery aka Reclaiming History
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2018, 07:03:55 PM »
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?At the London trial, Wesley Frazier testified that "everyone was present [at the roll call] except Mr. Oswald." (Transcript of "On Trial: Lee Harvey Oswald", July 23, 1986, p.38).

Billy Lovelady told the media back in 1964 that "a roll call was taken of the dozen or so men in my work gang. Only Oswald was missing" (New York Herald Tribune, May 24, 1964, p.10).?

-- Via Vincent Bugliosi's "Reclaiming History"

And worker Eddie Piper said there was what he called a "lineup" where the workers gave the police their names and home addresses.

From his WC testimony:
Mr. BALL. Did you at anytime after the shooting miss Lee Oswald---did you notice he wasn't around?
Mr. PIPER. No, sir; I didn't notice it until the lineup. You know, I just figured all the people was there.
Mr. BALL. You did notice it at the lineup, did you?
Mr. PIPER. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Tell us about that.
Mr. PIPER. I did notice it in the lineup.
Mr. BALL. What do you mean by the lineup?
Mr. PIPER. I mean, when they lined us all up and told us to give our name and address and just to go home.
Mr. BALL. You say "they"; who do you mean?
Mr. PIPER. The detective---whoever it was.
Mr. BALL. The police?
Mr. PIPER. Yes; they had the building all surrounded. They went to locking the doors back and front and told us to all come up and then go home, and I told him, I says, "I've got to go down in the basement and get my clothes," and he said, "You can go down and get your clothes and come on back up here, but give me your identification and your name and tell us where you are staying," and everybody heard me say that, I guess, and he let us out of the building, one by one, and I went on out the front door.
Mr. BALL. Did you say something to anybody about not seeing Oswald there?
Mr. PIPER. No, sir; I didn't say it, but I just saw he wasn't in the lineup--I didn't tell anyone because I didn't see him.
Mr. BALL. Just tell us what did you notice?
Mr. PIPER. I noticed he was not in the lineup.
Mr. BALL. You noticed that he was not in the lineup?

There seems to be pretty solid evidence that some sort of "account" of the workers who were in the building  was taken by the police. Lineup, roll call, whatever one wants to call it.

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Re: Reclaiming Misery aka Reclaiming History
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2018, 07:03:55 PM »

Online Jerry Freeman

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Re: Reclaiming Misery aka Reclaiming History
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2018, 07:12:11 PM »
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There seems to be pretty solid evidence that some sort of "account" of the workers who were in the building  was taken by the police. Lineup, roll call, whatever one wants to call it.

Quote
Mr. BALL. Did you make a check of your employees afterwards?
Mr. TRULY. No, no; not complete. No, I just saw the group of the employees over there on the floor and I noticed this boy wasn't with them. With no thought in my mind except that I had seen him a short time before in the building, I noticed he wasn't there.
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Remember that this was all post mortum.
There was no cross examination of witnesses.
A newspaper interview is not "testimony".

Offline David Von Pein

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Re: Reclaiming Misery aka Reclaiming History
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2018, 09:52:52 PM »
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And worker Eddie Piper said there was what he called a "lineup" where the workers gave the police their names and home addresses.

From his WC testimony:

Mr. BALL. Did you at anytime after the shooting miss Lee Oswald---did you notice he wasn't around?
Mr. PIPER. No, sir; I didn't notice it until the lineup. You know, I just figured all the people was there.
Mr. BALL. You did notice it at the lineup, did you?
Mr. PIPER. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Tell us about that.
Mr. PIPER. I did notice it in the lineup.
Mr. BALL. What do you mean by the lineup?
Mr. PIPER. I mean, when they lined us all up and told us to give our name and address and just to go home.
Mr. BALL. You say "they"; who do you mean?
Mr. PIPER. The detective---whoever it was.
Mr. BALL. The police?
Mr. PIPER. Yes...

Thanks, Steve, for Piper's "lineup" reference.

Piper, however, was talking about the POLICE conducting that "lineup", not Roy Truly or Bill Shelley of the TSBD staff.

But upon being reminded by Steve of Eddie Piper's testimony, it makes me wonder if perhaps the "lineup" that Piper talked about could be the "roll call" that Frazier and Lovelady remembered. ? ? ?

In any event, that makes THREE separate TSBD employees --- Frazier, Lovelady, and Piper (plus reporter Kent Biffle) --- who each has made reference to some type of "roll call" or "lineup" being conducted in the TSBD before the employees were sent home on 11/22.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2018, 10:04:12 PM by David Von Pein »

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Re: Reclaiming Misery aka Reclaiming History
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2018, 09:52:52 PM »

 

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