What happened to the Mauser?

[Walt Cakebread]

Then it appears you are correct with Craig's I D of the Mauser. What a dumbass I have always been a bit suspicious of the guy, and this makes it even harder to contextualize some of his other statements

 It does not end the debate about the Mauser in my mind On the other hand, it is not a make or break issue anyway, but it certainly continues to feed the monster of uncertainty that pervades every aspect of law enforcement in this case

For me at least I think the issue has run it's course.

Except there is now the issue of why the FBI, and others. had no interest in the ,military intelligence file on Oswald

Matt, If you can't see with your own eyes that the rifle that was found buried beneath boxes of books on the sixth floor is a Model 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano and you continue to entertain the idea that a mauser was actually found, then you've nailed one of your feet to the floor and you are stuck and you won't make any progress.

[Matt Grantham]

Matt, If you can't see with your own eyes that the rifle that was found buried beneath boxes of books on the sixth floor is a Model 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano and you continue to entertain the idea that a mauser was actually found, then you've nailed one of your feet to the floor and you are stuck and you won't make any progress.

Walt I am not quite sure why at this point in the conversation you chose to chastise me or whatever you would like me to call it .I relented on Craig Said it is not a make or break issue and it had probably run its course I did say I didn't think it ended the debate and perhaps that is the problem 

 I have never seen Day's photographs of the rifle unless it is the film we keep seeing on these threads I would assume Day took still, closeup shots at some point?  What would be the most convincing evidence would be close up photos of the rifle in question with the faces of the other law enforcement personnel also in the photo so we could be more certain it was taken when all these people were present Now it would take some floor space since the law enforcement would need to lie prone on their backs forming a kind of human pinwheel so the three or four faces would appear in a circle around the rifle

 So yes a bit of absurdity always makes me happy, but it is not aimed at you in any way Walt In fact in some ways it is meant as an allusion to the fact that absolute verfiability has been, and will continue to be, an impossibility

[Jerry Freeman]

From the Sims and Boyd report about the gun being found....
https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/html/WH_Vol21_0268b.htm

I continue to have interest in the accounts that there were guys crawling all around there who these Dallas detectives didn't seem to know.
"A Secret Service agent was there. We didn't know the agents name."
How did they know he was Secret Service?

"An officer from [the ATF] was [also] there."
Everybody but the Mounties was there?
 
On Sunday Nov 24 [Right after Oswald was killed] Det. R.M. Sims called in from home and asked if he "could be of any help".
 

[Walt Cakebread]

Walt I am not quite sure why at this point in the conversation you chose to chastise me or whatever you would like me to call it .I relented on Craig Said it is not a make or break issue and it had probably run its course I did say I didn't think it ended the debate and perhaps that is the problem 

 I have never seen Day's photographs of the rifle unless it is the film we keep seeing on these threads I would assume Day took still, closeup shots at some point?  What would be the most convincing evidence would be close up photos of the rifle in question with the faces of the other law enforcement personnel also in the photo so we could be more certain it was taken when all these people were present Now it would take some floor space since the law enforcement would need to lie prone on their backs forming a kind of human pinwheel so the three or four faces would appear in a circle around the rifle

 So yes a bit of absurdity always makes me happy, but it is not aimed at you in any way Walt In fact in some ways it is meant as an allusion to the fact that absolute verfiability has been, and will continue to be, an impossibility

Matt there are several copies of Tom Alyea's film of DPD Detective John Carl Day examining and carrying the Mannlicher carcano.   There's not a shred of doubt that the rifle that was CAREFULLY  hidden beneath the boxes of books (not tossed aside by a fleeing killer) was a Mannlicher Carcano.   They intended to frame the man that they thought was a communist ( Lee Oswald) and they knew there was a photo that showed him holding a Carcano.....  So they sure as hell wouldn't have planted a mauser in the place where he worked.

This is not denying that they did have a Mauser that they were planning to use in some fashion......because they very definitely DID hand Seymour Weitzman a 7.65 Mauser and get him on record as identifying that Mauser....However they never recorded the serial number of that Mauser.   I confess that I don't know what Hoover's agents were trying to pull when thay had Weitzman examine that Mauser..... But You should not accept the tale that the rifle found in the TSBD was a mauser... because it was a Mannlicher Carcano.

And I wasn't chastising you..... I merely want you to benefit from what I've learned....

[Matt Grantham]

From the Sims and Boyd report about the gun being found....
https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/html/WH_Vol21_0268b.htm

I continue to have interest in the accounts that there were guys crawling all around there who these Dallas detectives didn't seem to know.
"A Secret Service agent was there. We didn't know the agents name."
How did they know he was Secret Service?

"An officer from [the ATF] was [also] there."
Everybody but the Mounties was there?
 
On Sunday Nov 24 [Right after Oswald was killed] Det. R.M. Sims called in from home and asked if he "could be of any help".

 Yet poor Officer Croy. Nobody wanted him to help with anything

[Jake Maxwell]

Matt there are several copies of Tom Alyea's film of DPD Detective John Carl Day examining and carrying the Mannlicher carcano.   There's not a shred of doubt that the rifle that was CAREFULLY  hidden beneath the boxes of books (not tossed aside by a fleeing killer) was a Mannlicher Carcano.   They intended to frame the man that they thought was a communist ( Lee Oswald) and they knew there was a photo that showed him holding a Carcano.....  So they sure as hell wouldn't have planted a mauser in the place where he worked.

This is not denying that they did have a Mauser that they were planning to use in some fashion......because they very definitely DID hand Seymour Weitzman a 7.65 Mauser and get him on record as identifying that Mauser....However they never recorded the serial number of that Mauser.   I confess that I don't know what Hoover's agents were trying to pull when thay had Weitzman examine that Mauser..... But You should not accept the tale that the rifle found in the TSBD was a mauser... because it was a Mannlicher Carcano.

And I wasn't chastising you..... I merely want you to benefit from what I've learned....

I'm fine with an MC instead of a Mauser being found carefully hidden in the TSBD among the boxes...
I'm not fine with them (DPD, FBI, who else?) framing Oswald...
I'm not fine with "Hoover's agents trying to pull" something with the Mauser...
What was this something they were trying to pull?
Maybe they threw the Mauser into the mix because they initially were not sure the story of Oswald as a lone nut was going to "stick."

[Matt Grantham]

Matt there are several copies of Tom Alyea's film of DPD Detective John Carl Day examining and carrying the Mannlicher carcano.   There's not a shred of doubt that the rifle that was CAREFULLY  hidden beneath the boxes of books (not tossed aside by a fleeing killer) was a Mannlicher Carcano.   They intended to frame the man that they thought was a communist ( Lee Oswald) and they knew there was a photo that showed him holding a Carcano.....  So they sure as hell wouldn't have planted a mauser in the place where he worked.

This is not denying that they did have a Mauser that they were planning to use in some fashion......because they very definitely DID hand Seymour Weitzman a 7.65 Mauser and get him on record as identifying that Mauser....However they never recorded the serial number of that Mauser.   I confess that I don't know what Hoover's agents were trying to pull when thay had Weitzman examine that Mauser..... But You should not accept the tale that the rifle found in the TSBD was a mauser... because it was a Mannlicher Carcano.

And I wasn't chastising you..... I merely want you to benefit from what I've learned....

Very Good Walt Indeed I appreciate the efforts you have taken to explain things to me and have learned a lot I will agree the best explanation was they were mistaken and it was an MC all the time. But they seem to make such a circus out of everything one just wonders about some kind of deception at every turn