JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate
The Limo Bullet Fragments....
Joe Elliott:
--- Quote from: Rob Caprio on May 14, 2018, 03:25:01 AM ---
So you have NO supporting evidence. Got it.
--- End quote ---
No. You don?t got it. There is supporting evidence.
Ballistic experts Robert Frazier and Joseph Nicol examined the stretcher bullet and the two fragments recovered from the limousine and determined that they were fired from the rifle found on the sixth floor of the TSBD, to the exclusion of all other rifles in the world.
Supporting evidence that the two fragments were from the same bullet? This is impossible to tell. But applying Occam?s Razor, a proven tool, shows that this is most probable.
It was, of course, impossible to determine that the two fragments came from the same bullet or from two different bullets. But two different bullets each leaving a fragment that stays in the limousine, while the other fragment leaves the limousine, is patently unlikely for the following reasons.
We know for a fact that a part of the bullet, or a part of both bullets did not strike the limousine. This is a fluke, to happen to one bullet. It would be a super fluke to happen to two separate bullets.
If the fragments were from one bullet, it was just by luck the bullet curved upwards in JFK?s head. A curve in any other direction would have resulted in all three fragments striking the limousine, likely resulting in the recovery of all three fragments within the limousine.
For the fragments to be from two different bullets, the following fluky events must have occurred.
** Both WCC/MC bullets had to fragment, which doesn?t always occur. It would only occur if both struck bone at near muzzle velocity. Like a bullet hitting the skull.
** Both bullets would have to curve upwards, allowing one fragment to be intercepted by the limousine and later recovered, and the other fragment to clear the limousine.
** If the fragments came from two different bullets, in both cases, it was the smaller fragment that stayed behind while the larger fragment escaped. If the opposite happened, the weight of the found fragments would be more than the weight of a single bullet, alerting us to the fact that the fragments came from two different bullets. Or if just one of the larger fragments was found, this would likely tell us that the fragments came from two different bullets.
** Both fragments came from different parts of the bullet. If the fragments came from the same part of the bullet, then we would know that two different bullets caused the fragments.
In conclusion, while it is possible that the fragments came from two different bullets, logic indicates that this is unlikely. Most likely, they came from the same bullet.
Martin Weidmann:
--- Quote from: Joe Elliott on May 14, 2018, 04:21:13 AM ---These ?other guys? were Secret Service agents. Of course, you live in a conspiracy world, where everyone is suspect. Where this alleged conspiracy can recruit anyone they need to with no problem. The autopsy doctors. The Secret Service agents. The Dallas police. No problem at all, for believers in Large Secret Enduring Conspiracies.
Reasonable people have theories. Unreasonable people have established truths in their heads that they cannot seriously question.
--- End quote ---
These ?other guys? were Secret Service agents.
Do they have special permission to tamper with evidence?
Of course, you live in a conspiracy world, where everyone is suspect.
This is not about me. In your simple little world it seems to be ok to tamper with evidence as long as they have some sort of badge. Pathetic!
Where this alleged conspiracy can recruit anyone they need to with no problem. The autopsy doctors. The Secret Service agents. The Dallas police. No problem at all, for believers in Large Secret Enduring Conspiracies.
Here we go again... the classic LN argument. A conspiracy isn't possible because they needed to involved half the population of the world, right? Get some grip on reality, please!
Reasonable people have theories. Unreasonable people have established truths in their heads that they cannot seriously question.
Another LN argument
Translation; reasonable people agree with the crap I write and unreasonable people don't
You will never understand just how stupid that argument sounds, will you now?
Martin Weidmann:
--- Quote from: Joe Elliott on May 14, 2018, 04:50:41 AM ---No. You don?t got it. There is supporting evidence.
Ballistic experts Robert Frazier and Joseph Nicol examined the stretcher bullet and the two fragments recovered from the limousine and determined that they were fired from the rifle found on the sixth floor of the TSBD, to the exclusion of all other rifles in the world.
Supporting evidence that the two fragments were from the same bullet? This is impossible to tell. But applying Occam?s Razor, a proven tool, shows that this is most probable.
It was, of course, impossible to determine that the two fragments came from the same bullet or from two different bullets. But two different bullets each leaving a fragment that stays in the limousine, while the other fragment leaves the limousine, is patently unlikely for the following reasons.
We know for a fact that a part of the bullet, or a part of both bullets did not strike the limousine. This is a fluke, to happen to one bullet. It would be a super fluke to happen to two separate bullets.
If the fragments were from one bullet, it was just by luck the bullet curved upwards in JFK?s head. A curve in any other direction would have resulted in all three fragments striking the limousine, likely resulting in the recovery of all three fragments within the limousine.
For the fragments to be from two different bullets, the following fluky events must have occurred.
** Both WCC/MC bullets had to fragment, which doesn?t always occur. It would only occur if both struck bone at near muzzle velocity. Like a bullet hitting the skull.
** Both bullets would have to curve upwards, allowing one fragment to be intercepted by the limousine and later recovered, and the other fragment to clear the limousine.
** If the fragments came from two different bullets, in both cases, it was the smaller fragment that stayed behind while the larger fragment escaped. If the opposite happened, the weight of the found fragments would be more than the weight of a single bullet, alerting us to the fact that the fragments came from two different bullets. Or if just one of the larger fragments was found, this would likely tell us that the fragments came from two different bullets.
** Both fragments came from different parts of the bullet. If the fragments came from the same part of the bullet, then we would know that two different bullets caused the fragments.
In conclusion, while it is possible that the fragments came from two different bullets, logic indicates that this is unlikely. Most likely, they came from the same bullet.
--- End quote ---
Ballistic experts Robert Frazier and Joseph Nicol examined the stretcher bullet and the two fragments recovered from the limousine and determined that they were fired from the rifle found on the sixth floor of the TSBD, to the exclusion of all other rifles in the world.
Briliant, Einstein... now show conclusively that CE 399 and the fragments now in evidence are indeed the same as the bullet found at Parkland and the fragments found in the car..... can you do that?
Here's news for you; if you can't show that, everything else in your post falls apart and all you are left with is what you (want to) believe
Joe Elliott:
--- Quote from: Martin Weidmann on May 14, 2018, 05:11:06 AM ---
--- End quote ---
These ?other guys? were Secret Service agents.
Do they have special permission to tamper with evidence?
So, you believe this Large Secret Enduring Conspiracy had no problem recruiting the Secret Service to take part. Or do you deny this?
Of course, you live in a conspiracy world, where everyone is suspect.
This is not about me. In your simple little world it seems to be ok to tamper with evidence as long as they have some sort of badge. Pathetic!
Who told them not to search the limousine?
Where this alleged conspiracy can recruit anyone they need to with no problem. The autopsy doctors. The Secret Service agents. The Dallas police. No problem at all, for believers in Large Secret Enduring Conspiracies.
Here we go again... the classic LN argument. A conspiracy isn't possible because they needed to involved half the population of the world, right? Get some grip on reality, please!
CTers, yourself included, don?t provide a complete list of all the evidence that was faked. Of all the people who were likely involved in the conspiracy. You can only fail to do so if the amount of faked evidence is too long to list. If the number of conspirators is too long to list. Hence, the logical conclusion that you are a believer in Large Secret Enduring Conspiracies. But if you are not, give me some reason to believe you are not. Give me a couple of lists.
Reasonable people have theories. Unreasonable people have established truths in their heads that they cannot seriously question.
Another LN argument
Translation; reasonable people agree with the crap I write and unreasonable people don't
You will never understand just how stupid that argument sounds, will you now?
Stupid for me to point out that it is reasonable to have theories, and not concrete beliefs that cannot be questioned?
Martin Weidmann:
--- Quote from: Joe Elliott on May 14, 2018, 05:27:14 AM ---These ?other guys? were Secret Service agents.
Do they have special permission to tamper with evidence?
So, you believe this Large Secret Enduring Conspiracy had no problem recruiting the Secret Service to take part. Or do you deny this?
--- End quote ---
Why don't you answer my question instead of asking one?
And btw stop guessing about what I believe or not. You're not very good at it anyway.
--- Quote ---
Of course, you live in a conspiracy world, where everyone is suspect.
This is not about me. In your simple little world it seems to be ok to tamper with evidence as long as they have some sort of badge. Pathetic!
Who told them not to search the limousine?
--- End quote ---
Since when do they need to be told not to do something? Even the biggest idiot knows not to mess with a crime scene, doesn't he?
--- Quote ---
Where this alleged conspiracy can recruit anyone they need to with no problem. The autopsy doctors. The Secret Service agents. The Dallas police. No problem at all, for believers in Large Secret Enduring Conspiracies.
Here we go again... the classic LN argument. A conspiracy isn't possible because they needed to involved half the population of the world, right? Get some grip on reality, please!
CTers, yourself included, don?t provide a complete list of all the evidence that was faked. Of all the people who were likely involved in the conspiracy. You can only fail to do so if the amount of faked evidence is too long to list. If the number of conspirators is too long to list. Hence, the logical conclusion that you are a believer in Large Secret Enduring Conspiracies. But if you are not, give me some reason to believe you are not. Give me a couple of lists.
--- End quote ---
Evidence doesn't have to be fake to be misleading. It can be manipulated and misrepresented just as easily. The best lie is the one that stays as close to the truth as it can be. Hide the obvious deception in plain sight and hope nobody will notice.....
I don't really care what you believe or not about what my opinion is. This isn't about me. And as far as your "logical conclusion" is concerned..... the most logical thing for me to do seems to be to ignore it as an obvious delusion.
--- Quote ---
Reasonable people have theories. Unreasonable people have established truths in their heads that they cannot seriously question.
Another LN argument
Translation; reasonable people agree with the crap I write and unreasonable people don't
You will never understand just how stupid that argument sounds, will you now?
Stupid for me to point out that it is reasonable to have theories, and not concrete beliefs that cannot be questioned?
--- End quote ---
You understand my comment exactly. No need to add anything more!
Btw I thought we were discussion some pieces of physical evidence and not your obsession with CTs who you think believe in large scale conspiracies.... Seems I was mistaken.
Do you think you can manage any time soon to show conclusively that CE 399 and the fragments now in evidence are indeed the same as the bullet found at Parkland and the fragments found in the car, or do you require more time?
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