Lee Oswald The Cop Killer

[Martin Weidmann]

Mr.CHAPMAN: You're grasping at straws again. Bottom line is that several people ID'd Oswald.
MR.WEIDMANN: No. That's not the bottom line. You are the one grasping at straws as none of these witnesses were ever subject to a cross-examination. You just take their "observations" at face value.
Mr.CHAPMAN: I can't vouch for what other people see. Anywho, the witnesses gave Oswald's face a good deal of value.

Mr.CHAPMAN: You couldn't do it so nobody else can. Now there's some rational thinking right there.
Mr.WEIDMANN: I did not claim that, but you see to claim that everybody, except me could.... talk about rational thinking!
Mr.CHAPMAN: Everybody? Nope; just the witnesses IDing Oswald

Mr.WEIDMANN: Not everything is about you! But since you asked, do you consider Sam Holland credible?
Mr.CHAPMAN: Where did I imply that your statement was about me specifically. You stated* that every LNer claims Dealey Plaza witnesses unreliable. As for Sam Holland, or any other witness for that matter, I cannot personally find anyone of them unreliable. They saw what they saw as far as I'm concerned. Even a little dog in Jackie's lap or JFK standing up in the limo.
*https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,697.msg51913.html#msg51913

Mr.WEIDMANN: Instead of desperately clinging on to your ODIA scenario, why don't you give a try to look at the "evidence" more honestly and objectively?
Mr.CHAPMAN: No doubt an undertaking that has to result in agreement with you in order to be considered valid by you... 
Mr.WEIDMANN: Oh, wait, that might be just too much to ask of you.....
Mr.CHAPMAN: Oh, wait... asking me to agree with you? Yeah, that's a bridge too far, Tex.

Mr.WEIDMANN: Instead of desperately clinging on to your ODIA scenario, why don't you give a try to look at the "evidence" more honestly and objectively?
Mr.CHAPMAN: No doubt an undertaking that has to result in agreement with you in order to be considered valid by you... 

No.. If and when your honest and objective examination of the evidence yields another conclusion, which you can subsequently explain and defend, rather than just mindlessly parrot the WC narrative, I will consider it valid even if it disagrees with my conclusions.... Who knows, you might even persuade me to look at things differently.

Mr.WEIDMANN: Oh, wait, that might be just too much to ask of you.....
Mr.CHAPMAN: Oh, wait... asking me to agree with you? Yeah, that's a bridge too far, Tex.

Don't you first need to know what I think and what my conclusions are before you can decide that you can agree with them or not?

[Bill Chapman]

Mr.WEIDMANN: Instead of desperately clinging on to your ODIA scenario, why don't you give a try to look at the "evidence" more honestly and objectively?
Mr.CHAPMAN: No doubt an undertaking that has to result in agreement with you in order to be considered valid by you... 

No.. If and when your honest and objective examination of the evidence yields another conclusion, which you can subsequently explain and defend, rather than just mindlessly parrot the WC narrative, I will consider it valid even if it disagrees with my conclusions.... Who knows, you might even persuade me to look at things differently.

Mr.WEIDMANN: Oh, wait, that might be just too much to ask of you.....
Mr.CHAPMAN: Oh, wait... asking me to agree with you? Yeah, that's a bridge too far, Tex.

Don't you first need to know what I think and what my conclusions are before you can decide that you can agree with them or not?

Mr.WEIDMANN: No? If and when your honest and objective examination of the evidence yields another conclusion, which you can subsequently explain and defend, rather than just mindlessly parrot the WC narrative, I will consider it valid even if it disagrees with my conclusions.... Who knows, you might even persuade me to look at things differently.
Mr.CHAPMAN: I?m not trying to persuade anyone of anything here.
Mr.WEIDMANN: Don't you first need to know what I think and what my conclusions are before you can decide that you can agree with them or not?
Mr.CHAPMAN: Sheep, lemmings?. now mindless parrots. My, my. All of which dovetails back your abundantly-transparent notion that no other conclusions but yours will ever really be valid.

[Martin Weidmann]

Mr.WEIDMANN: No? If and when your honest and objective examination of the evidence yields another conclusion, which you can subsequently explain and defend, rather than just mindlessly parrot the WC narrative, I will consider it valid even if it disagrees with my conclusions.... Who knows, you might even persuade me to look at things differently.
Mr.CHAPMAN: I?m not trying to persuade anyone of anything here.
Mr.WEIDMANN: Don't you first need to know what I think and what my conclusions are before you can decide that you can agree with them or not?
Mr.CHAPMAN: Sheep, lemmings?. now mindless parrots. My, my. All of which dovetails back your abundantly-transparent notion that no other conclusions but yours will ever really be valid.

Mr.CHAPMAN: I?m not trying to persuade anyone of anything here.

Are you sure about that? Could have fooled me....

Mr.CHAPMAN: Sheep, lemmings?. now mindless parrots. My, my. All of which dovetails back your abundantly-transparent notion that no other conclusions but yours will ever really be valid.

I never used the terms "sheep" or "lemmings" and you do in fact parrot the WC narrative mindlessly. The only opinion of your own you seem to have is about what I would consider valid and you're even wrong about that!
 

[Bill Brown]

You wouldn?t be stretching things in an attempt to make your point more valid, now would you?

So.......

Bowley's watch was 100% correct.

Markham's estimate of what time it was when she left her residence was 100% spot on.

The clock on the wall at Methodist was 100% perfect.

....... and the Dallas police tapes were tampered with.

Do I have it right?

[Bill Brown]

Of course he would. 

Markham tells us in her testimony that she left home on 9th street "at a little after one". She only needed to walk two blocks (a distance of about 0,2 mile or roughly 4 minutes) to get to the bus stop at Jefferson. In her testimony she added "I wouldn't be afraid to bet it wasn't 6 or 7 minutes after 1" but even if that estimate was spot on, she still would have arrived at 10th/Patton at around 1.10.

So, in order for her to witness the shooting of Tippit on 10th/Patton at 1.15 pm she would have needed the better part of at least 5 to 10 minutes to cover the distance of one block. And even then, it doesn't add up, as Markham estimated that she usually catched the bus at 1.15 pm, which means that she still could not have been at 10th/Patton to watch the shooting at that exact same time!

However, the bus schedule for Markham's bus allegedly gives arrival times at the Jefferson stop as 1.12 and 1.22. I say "allegedly" because I have never seen a copy of the schedule. Anyway, in order to desperately get Markham at 10th/Patton at around 1.15 pm Bill Brown dreamed up a scenario in which Markham didn't catch a delayed 1.12 bus (perhaps he thinks no busses were ever delayed in those days) at 1.15 but instead (according to Bill) she really took the 1.22 bus every day.

Mr. Ball:  You know what time you usually get your bus, don't you?
Mrs. Markham:  1:15

Nobody regularly gets to a bus stop at 1:15 in order to catch a 1:12 bus.

The obvious explanation is that Markham regularly caught the 1:22 bus.

[John Mytton]

The 1:30 earwitnesses/eyewitnesses

Mrs. MARY BROCK, 4310 Utah, Dallas, Texas, advised that on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, she was at the Ballew Texaco Service Station located in the 600 block of Jefferson Street, Dallas, Texas. She advised that at approximately 1:30 PM a white male described as approximately 30 years of age; 5 feet, 10 inches; light?colored complexion, wearing light clothing, came past her walking at a fast pace, wearing a light?colored jacket and with his hands in his pockets.


BEFORE ME, Patsy Collins, a Notary Public in and for said County, State of Texas, on this day personally appeared Mrs. Virginia Davis, w/m/16 [sic], of 400 E. 10th WH-3-8120 who, after being by me duly sworn, on oath deposes and says:
"Today November 22, 1963 about 1:30 pm my sister-in-law and myself were lying down in our apartment. My sister-in-law is Jeanette Davis, we live in the same house in different apartments. We heard a shot and then another shot and ran to the side door at Patton Street."


PATTERSON advised that at approximately 1:30 PM, he was standing on JONNY REYNOLDS' used car lot together with L.J. LEWIS and HAROLD RUSSELL when they heard shots coming from the vicinity of 10th and Patton Avenue, Dallas, Texas.


ROBERT BROCK, 4310 Utah, Dallas, Texas, advised that on November 22, 1963, he was employed as a mechanic at Roger Ballew Texaco Service Station, 600 Jefferson Street, Dallas, Texas. He advised that at approximately 1:30 PM, November 22, 1963, a young white man passed him, BROCK and his wife, and proceeded north past the Texaco Service Station into the parking lot, at which time the individual disappeared.

Scoggins a cab driver was on his lunch break so would be aware of the time and is easily the best time eyewitness.

Mr. DULLES. What time was this, approximately, as far as you can recall?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Around 1:20 in the afternoon.
Mr. BELIN. All right. Will you please state then what happened, what you saw, what you did, what you heard?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Well, I first seen the police car cruising east.

Scoggins could accurately guess the time because he was on a schedule, Scoggins recalls discharging a passenger at 1PM then he went and parked his cab walked to the club, then stayed in the club for 10-15 minutes then walked back to his cab.

Mr. BELIN. Where were you driving your cab in the early part of the afternoon of November 22, 1963, if you remember?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Well, I picked up a gentleman at Love Field at approximately 12:35, I would say, and I discharged him at 1 o'clock at 321 North Ewing.
Mr. BELIN. Then where did you go?
Mr. SCOGGINS. I went around by the Gentlemen's Club which I believe is 125 Patton.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do there?
Mr. SCOGGINS. I pulled up and parked at the corner of Patton and 10th and went back down to the club. At first, whenever I passed by, one of the guys hollered at me and asked me did I know the President had been shot, and I made the remark that I had not heard that one. I found a place to park and I came back, and he came back there in a couple of minutes and told me the facts about it. I thought it was some kind of a joke. So I had to go plumb up to the corner of 10th before I could find a parking place, and I parked right there on the corner and went back and got me a coke and watched the deal, watched the television.
Mr. DULLES. Would you speak a little louder, please; I can't quite hear.
Mr. SCOGGINS. I got me a coke and watched television for a few minutes, I would say 10, 12, 15 minutes, there, and went out to eat my lunch.
Mr. DULLES. What were you seeing on television?
Mr. SCOGGINS. The deal about the President getting assassinated; and when I got back to my cab and got my lunch, and, well, I noticed a police car cruising east there on 10th Street.

JohnM

[Bill Brown]

The 1:30 earwitnesses/eyewitnesses

Mrs. MARY BROCK, 4310 Utah, Dallas, Texas, advised that on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, she was at the Ballew Texaco Service Station located in the 600 block of Jefferson Street, Dallas, Texas. She advised that at approximately 1:30 PM a white male described as approximately 30 years of age; 5 feet, 10 inches; light?colored complexion, wearing light clothing, came past her walking at a fast pace, wearing a light?colored jacket and with his hands in his pockets.


BEFORE ME, Patsy Collins, a Notary Public in and for said County, State of Texas, on this day personally appeared Mrs. Virginia Davis, w/m/16 [sic], of 400 E. 10th WH-3-8120 who, after being by me duly sworn, on oath deposes and says:
"Today November 22, 1963 about 1:30 pm my sister-in-law and myself were lying down in our apartment. My sister-in-law is Jeanette Davis, we live in the same house in different apartments. We heard a shot and then another shot and ran to the side door at Patton Street."


PATTERSON advised that at approximately 1:30 PM, he was standing on JONNY REYNOLDS' used car lot together with L.J. LEWIS and HAROLD RUSSELL when they heard shots coming from the vicinity of 10th and Patton Avenue, Dallas, Texas.


ROBERT BROCK, 4310 Utah, Dallas, Texas, advised that on November 22, 1963, he was employed as a mechanic at Roger Ballew Texaco Service Station, 600 Jefferson Street, Dallas, Texas. He advised that at approximately 1:30 PM, November 22, 1963, a young white man passed him, BROCK and his wife, and proceeded north past the Texaco Service Station into the parking lot, at which time the individual disappeared.

Scoggins a cab driver was on his lunch break so would be aware of the time and is easily the best time eyewitness.

Mr. DULLES. What time was this, approximately, as far as you can recall?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Around 1:20 in the afternoon.
Mr. BELIN. All right. Will you please state then what happened, what you saw, what you did, what you heard?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Well, I first seen the police car cruising east.

Scoggins could accurately guess the time because he was on a schedule, Scoggins recalls discharging a passenger at 1PM then he went and parked his cab walked to the club, then stayed in the club for 10-15 minutes then walked back to his cab.

Mr. BELIN. Where were you driving your cab in the early part of the afternoon of November 22, 1963, if you remember?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Well, I picked up a gentleman at Love Field at approximately 12:35, I would say, and I discharged him at 1 o'clock at 321 North Ewing.
Mr. BELIN. Then where did you go?
Mr. SCOGGINS. I went around by the Gentlemen's Club which I believe is 125 Patton.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do there?
Mr. SCOGGINS. I pulled up and parked at the corner of Patton and 10th and went back down to the club. At first, whenever I passed by, one of the guys hollered at me and asked me did I know the President had been shot, and I made the remark that I had not heard that one. I found a place to park and I came back, and he came back there in a couple of minutes and told me the facts about it. I thought it was some kind of a joke. So I had to go plumb up to the corner of 10th before I could find a parking place, and I parked right there on the corner and went back and got me a coke and watched the deal, watched the television.
Mr. DULLES. Would you speak a little louder, please; I can't quite hear.
Mr. SCOGGINS. I got me a coke and watched television for a few minutes, I would say 10, 12, 15 minutes, there, and went out to eat my lunch.
Mr. DULLES. What were you seeing on television?
Mr. SCOGGINS. The deal about the President getting assassinated; and when I got back to my cab and got my lunch, and, well, I noticed a police car cruising east there on 10th Street.

JohnM

John, I love that list.  Thanks.