The shot sequence, bang......bang......bang?

[Gary Craig]

Jackie snaps her head to the right after z-190. This supports Willis' claim the first shot was fired just before 202.

Intersting.

How long would it have taken the sound to travel to their ears, register as a sound, and then prompt a

reaction? The Z film is 18 fps.

[Joe Elliott]

Jackie snaps her head to the right after z-190. This supports Willis' claim the first shot was fired just before 202.

Questions:

How does Altgen?s claim that the first shot occurred within a fraction of a second of his picture, at z255, which would mean a first shot after z234, support Willis?s claim of a shot just before he took his picture at z202?

Doesn?t there seem to be a pattern of photographers (Betzner, Willis and Altgens) convincing themselves that their picture was taken at a historically significant moment, just about when the first shot was fired?

[Jack Nessan]

Kennedy turns his head forward between Z153 and the Z160s. Kennedy seems to be looking pass Woodward's group by then.



That isn't true and you know it. Actually this is just pathetic. Woodwards group was farther South and she explains what transpired when JFK looks at them.

http://www.blather.net/blather_img/dealey%20plaza%20witnesses%20at%20Z-150.jpg

Mary Woodward
"After acknowledging our cheers, he [JFK] faced forward again and suddenly there was a horrible, ear-splitting noise coming from behind us and a little to the right."
 At Z185 JFK is looking drectly at them and waving to them. The reason he turns to them is they were calling and making noise to get his attention. That is what "acknowledging our cheers " means. Later Woodward laments that maybe their faces is the last thing he seen.
A double shot at the end almost simaltaneous
" But one thing I am totally positive of in my own mind is how many shots there were. And there were three shots. The second two shots were immediate -- it was almost as if one were an echo of the other -- they came so quickly. The sound of one did not cease until the second shot. With the second and third shots, I did see the president being hit. I literally saw his head explode."

==============================

Peggy Burney who was standing farther South along Elm Street closer to the Stemons Freeway sign also states where the first shot occurred confirming what the other eyewitnesses stated about the lolcation of the first shot.

BY PEGGY BURNEY
  I saw the President die.I was standing at the curb on Elm about a third the way from Houston Street near the overpass.When the President's car made the curve around the corner, he was smiling and waving.He was not standing, as I heard some reports say later.  He was sitting, but he was happy and Jackie was happy and smiling as they passed. The car had passed about 15 feet beyond me when I heard the first shot.  I did not realize it was a shot; I thought it was a backfire.  The President ducked; instinctively I told myself "something is happening," but nobody knew what. Then I heard a second shot.  I noticed that Jackie didn't duck - I could no longer see the President.  The car momentarily stopped, then veered slightly to the right and speeded off. People around me were screaming; some were falling to the ground.  I could not tell whether they were hit, or not - or just dodging.  There was pandemonium.

[Jack Nessan]

Questions:

How does Altgen?s claim that the first shot occurred within a fraction of a second of his picture, at z255, which would mean a first shot after z234, support Willis?s claim of a shot just before he took his picture at z202?

Doesn?t there seem to be a pattern of photographers (Betzner, Willis and Altgens) convincing themselves that their picture was taken at a historically significant moment, just about when the first shot was fired?

That is not what they said. The only one who said he took the picture instantaneous with the shot was Willis. His claim was the shot made him squeeze the shutter. The statements of these three individuals support each other. Betzner said the shot was a little after his photo, Willis at the time of the photo, and Altgens was a little before the photo. Willis's photo coincides with Zapruder 210.

 Altgens said "just about the time" or "a fraction ahead of the photo" not a fraction of a second. That is your addition.

?I made one picture at the time I heard a noise that sounded like a
firecracker?I did not know it was a shot, but evidently my picture, as I
recall, and it was almost simultaneously with the shot?the shot was just
a fraction ahead of my picture, but that much

"The motorcade was moving along in routine fashion until there was a noise like fireworks popping, I snapped a picture of the motorcade at just about that time."


---------------------------------------------------------


 Betzner said he was winding his camera after taking a photo

?I started to wind my film again
and I heard a loud noise. I thought that this noise was either a firecracker
or a car had backfired.? [Sheriff?s Department affidavit: 24H200]


-------------------------------------------

Willis

Then my next shot was taken at the very--in fact, the shot caused me to squeeze the camera shutter, and I got a picture of the President as he was hit with the first shot. So instantaneous, in fact, that the crowd hadn't had time to react.

[Bob Prudhomme]

Since when does a rifle sound like a firecracker, especially when you are within 25 yards of the muzzle and the muzzle is pointing in your direction?

Ever stop and think about why James "Ike" Altgens didn't hear the first shot until he snapped the photo at z255?

[Joe Elliott]

That is not what they said. The only one who said he took the picture instantaneous with the shot was Willis. His claim was the shot made him squeeze the shutter. The statements of these three individuals support each other. Betzner said the shot was a little after his photo, Willis at the time of the photo, and Altgens was a little before the photo. Willis's photo coincides with Zapruder 210.

 Altgens said "just about the time" or "a fraction ahead of the photo" not a fraction of a second. That is your addition.

?I made one picture at the time I heard a noise that sounded like a
firecracker?I did not know it was a shot, but evidently my picture, as I
recall, and it was almost simultaneously with the shot?the shot was just
a fraction ahead of my picture, but that much

"The motorcade was moving along in routine fashion until there was a noise like fireworks popping, I snapped a picture of the motorcade at just about that time."


---------------------------------------------------------


 Betzner said he was winding his camera after taking a photo

?I started to wind my film again
and I heard a loud noise. I thought that this noise was either a firecracker
or a car had backfired.? [Sheriff?s Department affidavit: 24H200]


-------------------------------------------

Willis

Then my next shot was taken at the very--in fact, the shot caused me to squeeze the camera shutter, and I got a picture of the President as he was hit with the first shot. So instantaneous, in fact, that the crowd hadn't had time to react.

Altgens said:
I made one picture at the time I heard a noise that sounded like a firecracker--I did not know it was a shot, but evidently my picture, as I recall, and it was almost simultaneously with the shot? the shot was just a fraction ahead of my picture, but that much---of course at that time I figured it was nothing more than a firecracker, because from my position down here the sound was not of such volume that it would indicate to me it was a high-velocity rifle.


Altgens said his picture was taken almost simultaneously with the first shot. That alone make it sound like the two events were almost together, within a second of each other.

In addition, he clarifies this (with a mistake) by saying it was just a fraction ahead of his picture.

Question:

1.   What kind of units is Altgens talking about when he said ?fraction?. Units of weight? Units of Length? It?s units of time, correct?

2.   What unit of time would he be referring to? A fraction of a minute? A fraction of a fortnight? It has to be a fraction of a second, right?


People, particularly if they are a little nervous, making an official statement in front of others, often skip words. While Altgens didn?t say ?fraction of a second?, that has to be what he meant. The shot occurred with a fraction, almost simultaneously with his picture, just like the pictures taken by Betzner and Willis. But we know those pictures were all spread of several seconds, so one of them, perhaps all three, were wrong.

[Bob Prudhomme]

Altgens said:
I made one picture at the time I heard a noise that sounded like a firecracker--I did not know it was a shot, but evidently my picture, as I recall, and it was almost simultaneously with the shot? the shot was just a fraction ahead of my picture, but that much---of course at that time I figured it was nothing more than a firecracker, because from my position down here the sound was not of such volume that it would indicate to me it was a high-velocity rifle.


Altgens said his picture was taken almost simultaneously with the first shot. That alone make it sound like the two events were almost together, within a second of each other.

In addition, he clarifies this (with a mistake) by saying it was just a fraction ahead of his picture.

Question:

1.   What kind of units is Altgens talking about when he said ?fraction?. Units of weight? Units of Length? It?s units of time, correct?

2.   What unit of time would he be referring to? A fraction of a minute? A fraction of a fortnight? It has to be a fraction of a second, right?


People, particularly if they are a little nervous, making an official statement in front of others, often skip words. While Altgens didn?t say ?fraction of a second?, that has to be what he meant. The shot occurred with a fraction, almost simultaneously with his picture, just like the pictures taken by Betzner and Willis. But we know those pictures were all spread of several seconds, so one of them, perhaps all three, were wrong.

":Mr. LIEBELER - You testified previously, I believe, that the first shot that was fired had just been fired momentarily before you took the picture, is that right?
Mr. ALTGENS - Yes, sir; it was so close you could almost say it was simultaneous because it was coincidental but nevertheless that's just the way it happened."