JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate
The shot sequence, bang......bang......bang?
Joe Elliott:
--- Quote from: Bob Prudhomme on January 29, 2018, 01:31:03 AM ---
Since when does a rifle sound like a firecracker, especially when you are within 25 yards of the muzzle and the muzzle is pointing in your direction?
Ever stop and think about why James "Ike" Altgens didn't hear the first shot until he snapped the photo at z255?
--- End quote ---
Altgens was 25 yards from the muzzle? Using Don Roberdeau?s map, I find Altgens was at z255, just beyond where the limousine would reach at z313, 90 yards away. Not 25 yards.
Decibel levels go down by 6 every time the distance from the sound source is doubled.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Acoustic/isprob2.html
The following list:
http://www.metrogun.com/db_list.html
shows:
firecracker: 150 db
rifle: 163 db
This list does not specify the distance from the rifle or the firecracker or what kind of firecracker or rifle they are talking about. But it does give us a rough measure.
This implies that a firecracker at 20 yards away would be as loud as a rifle at 90 yards away. It is quite possible that Altgens did not know whether he was hearing a rifle from 90 yards away or a firecracker that was closer.
As far as why didn?t Altgens hear a shot until z255, I would say that most witnesses did hear the first shot, at around z153. Did not recognize it as a shot. Dismissed it as a backfire or firecracker. And forgot about it. And continued to excitedly watch JFK and Jackie during the few seconds they would be close to them. They only remembered the shots that occurred after they realized something seems to be terribly wrong.
John Anderson:
--- Quote from: Joe Elliott on January 29, 2018, 02:45:55 AM ---
As far as why didn?t Altgens hear a shot until z255, I would say that most witnesses did hear the first shot, at around z153. Did not recognize it as a shot. Dismissed it as a backfire or firecracker. And forgot about it. And continued to excitedly watch JFK and Jackie during the few seconds they would be close to them. They only remembered the shots that occurred after they realized something seems to be terribly wrong.
--- End quote ---
Spot on. Frame 285 of the z film shows a guy still applauding enthusiastically just before the head shot. Don't remember his name but he's a Normandy veteran and still hasn't realised something has gone wrong at that stage.
Joe Elliott:
--- Quote from: John Anderson on January 29, 2018, 03:12:22 AM ---
Spot on. Frame 285 of the z film shows a guy still applauding enthusiastically just before the head shot. Don't remember his name but he's a Normandy veteran and still hasn't realised something has gone wrong at that stage.
--- End quote ---
Charles Brehm. He was a ranger on D-Day. Which means, I believe, he either went up the cliffs Pointe du Hoc. Or over the open beaches of Omaha Beach, as was depicted in the movie ?Saving Private Ryan?. Either way, a hell of a day.
But nobody seen in the Zapruder film is seen to react to shots being fired until z312, the headshot, except for the occupants of the limousine and the standing Secret Service agents in the follow up car.
People were just ignoring, and likely forgetting, the bangs they heard. They dismissed them as firecrackers or vehicle backfires. And continued applauding and concentrating on JFK and Jackie. It was a big deal to them and they were not in a mindset to get distracted.
Bob Prudhomme:
--- Quote from: Joe Elliott on January 29, 2018, 02:45:55 AM ---
Altgens was 25 yards from the muzzle? Using Don Roberdeau?s map, I find Altgens was at z255, just beyond where the limousine would reach at z313, 90 yards away. Not 25 yards.
Decibel levels go down by 6 every time the distance from the sound source is doubled.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Acoustic/isprob2.html
The following list:
http://www.metrogun.com/db_list.html
shows:
firecracker: 150 db
rifle: 163 db
This list does not specify the distance from the rifle or the firecracker or what kind of firecracker or rifle they are talking about. But it does give us a rough measure.
This implies that a firecracker at 20 yards away would be as loud as a rifle at 90 yards away. It is quite possible that Altgens did not know whether he was hearing a rifle from 90 yards away or a firecracker that was closer.
As far as why didn?t Altgens hear a shot until z255, I would say that most witnesses did hear the first shot, at around z153. Did not recognize it as a shot. Dismissed it as a backfire or firecracker. And forgot about it. And continued to excitedly watch JFK and Jackie during the few seconds they would be close to them. They only remembered the shots that occurred after they realized something seems to be terribly wrong.
--- End quote ---
Are you aware that a rifle at 163 dB is more than ten times as loud as a firecracker at 150 dB?
John Anderson:
--- Quote from: Joe Elliott on January 29, 2018, 03:47:14 AM ---Charles Brehm. He was a ranger on D-Day. Which means, I believe, he either went up the cliffs Pointe du Hoc. Or over the open beaches of Omaha Beach, as was depicted in the movie ?Saving Private Ryan?. Either way, a hell of a day.
But nobody seen in the Zapruder film is seen to react to shots being fired until z312, the headshot, except for the occupants of the limousine and the standing Secret Service agents in the follow up car.
People were just ignoring, and likely forgetting, the bangs they heard. They dismissed them as firecrackers or vehicle backfires. And continued applauding and concentrating on JFK and Jackie. It was a big deal to them and they were not in a mindset to get distracted.
--- End quote ---
Absolutely.
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