JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate
The shot sequence, bang......bang......bang?
Jack Nessan:
--- Quote from: Jerry Organ on January 28, 2018, 04:17:49 AM ---Referring to this portion of Phil Willis's testimony: "when the first shot was fired, she turned to the right toward him and he more or less slumped forward" ....
I think seeing the Z226-228 slump would be considered witnessing a "hit" (or the reaction to a bullet strike).
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you think that the President had been hit by the first shot?
Mr. WILLIS. I didn't really know, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. You couldn't tell whether he was hit by the first shot? You couldn't tell whether he had been hit by the first shot or the second shot or the third shot, or by how many shots he had been hit?
Mr. WILLIS. No, sir.
From the Clay Shaw Trial:
Q: Mr. Willis, did you have occasion to see any affect
that any shot may have had on any occupants in the
Presidential limousine?
A: Honestly, no, sir, because I was trying to use the view
finder for the camera and I was more interested in getting
the whole car than focusing on an individual. I did not.
I'm pretty sure his view to the President would be blocked by the Z220s. I think more of the Secret Service limousine would be between Willis and Kennedy by then.
So if Willis in his testimony is describing that he witnessed a non-hit "slump" prior to taking his Z202 slide, it could be this.
Willis would have seen this small forward slump from behind, and so would not know the President was smiling and not distressed. The animation is slowed.
--- End quote ---
Willis heard the sound of the bullet strike JFK the same as Garland Slack referenced. He heard bullet impact JFK with the first shot. A bullet impacting flesh is a very definite sound and as a war veteran he probably knew the sound well.
Willis FBI Affidavit June 18, 1964:
"Willis advised that at just about the same time that the limousine carrying President Kennedy was opposite the Stemmons Freeway road sign he heard a loud report and knew immediately it was a rifle shot and knew also the shot "had hit." He stated he exclaimed "Someone is shooting at him," meaning President Kennedy. About two seconds later, he heard another rifle shot which also hit as did the third shot which came approximately two seconds later."
Garland Slack
VOLUNTARY STATEMENT. Not Under Arrest Form No. 86
SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT
COUNTY OF DALLAS, TEXAS
Before me, the undersigned authority, on this the 22nd day of November A.D. 1963 personally appeared Garland Glenwill Slack, Address: 4130 Deely [sp?] St., Dallas, Age 59, Phone No. EV 1 2950
Deposes and says:
Today, I was standing on Houston Street, just below the window to Sheriff Decker's office waiting for the parade. I was standing there when the President's car passed and just after they rounded the corner from Houston onto Elm Street, I heard a report and I knew at once it was a high-powered rifle shot. I am a [cross-out] big game hunter and am familiar with the sound of hi [sic] powered rifles and I knew when I heard the retort [sic] that the shot had hit something. Within a [cross-out] few seconds I heard another retort [sic] and knew it also had hit something and all I could see was the highly colored hat that Mrs. Kennedy had on. I couldn't see anything else. I was so sick that I went back to my office but after thinking it over, I came back as a citizen to offer my statement if it could help in any way. During the time I was standing there I did look up into the building where the Texas Book Depository is and saw some people, maybe 12 or 14, hanging out of windows, but I didn't see anyone with a gun.
When the sound of this shot came, it sounded to me like this shot came from away back or from within a building. I have heard this same sort of sound when a shot has come from within a cave, as I have been on many big game hunts.
/s/ G. G. Slack
Subscribed and sworn to before me on this the 22nd day of Nov A. D. 1963
Pat Speer:
--- Quote from: John Anderson on January 26, 2018, 05:46:09 PM ---And yet Willis also says...
Mr. LIEBELER. You couldn't tell whether he was hit by the first shot? You couldn't tell whether he had been hit by the first shot or the second shot or the third shot, or by how many shots he had been hit?
Mr. WILLIS. No, sir; except this one thing might be worthy of mention. When I took slide No. 4, the President was smiling and waving and looking straight ahead, and Mrs. Kennedy was likewise smiling and facing more to my side of the street. When the first shot was fired, her head seemed to just snap in that direction, and he more or less faced the other side of the street and leaned forward, which caused me to wonder, although I could not see anything positively. It did cause me to wonder.
Mr. LIEBELER. You say that the President looked toward his left; is that correct? Toward the side of Elm Street that you are standing on, or which way?
Mr. WILLIS. In slide No. 4 he was looking pretty much toward--straight ahead, and she was looking more to the left, which would be my side of the street. Then when the first shot was fired, she turned to the right toward him and he more or less slumped forward, and it caused me to wonder if he were hit, although I couldn't say.
And that's the thing. He says he heard three shots. He says the first shot happened at the Stemmons sign as he took slide 5, yet he says Jackie snapped her head in JFK's direction at the first shot. She can be seen clearly doing that at late z160's and continues looking at him until the throat shot happens. His (Willis) recollections don't match the Z film, or Jackie and Connolys statements.
The evidence is conflicting all round as we all know. What we must do at some point is decide which is reliable. Is the Z film accurate? If so who's testimonies can be corroborated by the film and testimony of others.
--- End quote ---
Jackie snaps her head to the right after z-190. This supports Willis' claim the first shot was fired just before 202.
Gary Craig:
--- Quote from: Pat Speer on January 28, 2018, 09:47:00 AM ---Jackie snaps her head to the right after z-190. This supports Willis' claim the first shot was fired just before 202.
--- End quote ---
Intersting.
How long would it have taken the sound to travel to their ears, register as a sound, and then prompt a
reaction? The Z film is 18 fps.
Joe Elliott:
--- Quote from: Pat Speer on January 28, 2018, 09:47:00 AM ---
Jackie snaps her head to the right after z-190. This supports Willis' claim the first shot was fired just before 202.
--- End quote ---
Questions:
How does Altgen?s claim that the first shot occurred within a fraction of a second of his picture, at z255, which would mean a first shot after z234, support Willis?s claim of a shot just before he took his picture at z202?
Doesn?t there seem to be a pattern of photographers (Betzner, Willis and Altgens) convincing themselves that their picture was taken at a historically significant moment, just about when the first shot was fired?
Jack Nessan:
Kennedy turns his head forward between Z153 and the Z160s. Kennedy seems to be looking pass Woodward's group by then.
That isn't true and you know it. Actually this is just pathetic. Woodwards group was farther South and she explains what transpired when JFK looks at them.
http://www.blather.net/blather_img/dealey%20plaza%20witnesses%20at%20Z-150.jpg
Mary Woodward
"After acknowledging our cheers, he [JFK] faced forward again and suddenly there was a horrible, ear-splitting noise coming from behind us and a little to the right."
At Z185 JFK is looking drectly at them and waving to them. The reason he turns to them is they were calling and making noise to get his attention. That is what "acknowledging our cheers " means. Later Woodward laments that maybe their faces is the last thing he seen.
A double shot at the end almost simaltaneous
" But one thing I am totally positive of in my own mind is how many shots there were. And there were three shots. The second two shots were immediate -- it was almost as if one were an echo of the other -- they came so quickly. The sound of one did not cease until the second shot. With the second and third shots, I did see the president being hit. I literally saw his head explode."
==============================
Peggy Burney who was standing farther South along Elm Street closer to the Stemons Freeway sign also states where the first shot occurred confirming what the other eyewitnesses stated about the lolcation of the first shot.
BY PEGGY BURNEY
I saw the President die.I was standing at the curb on Elm about a third the way from Houston Street near the overpass.When the President's car made the curve around the corner, he was smiling and waving.He was not standing, as I heard some reports say later. He was sitting, but he was happy and Jackie was happy and smiling as they passed. The car had passed about 15 feet beyond me when I heard the first shot. I did not realize it was a shot; I thought it was a backfire. The President ducked; instinctively I told myself "something is happening," but nobody knew what. Then I heard a second shot. I noticed that Jackie didn't duck - I could no longer see the President. The car momentarily stopped, then veered slightly to the right and speeded off. People around me were screaming; some were falling to the ground. I could not tell whether they were hit, or not - or just dodging. There was pandemonium.
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