JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate
The shot sequence, bang......bang......bang?
John Anderson:
So who to believe? Those who say two shots or those who say three shots?
Gary Craig:
"Little Rosemary Willis running alongside JFK's Limo as the first shot rang out."
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra22nZJq9QA
Willis family: Head shot came from right front
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHvfDijnASM
Willis photo #5 coincides with Z-205.
Mr. WILLIS. No, sir; I took that picture just seconds before the first shot was fired, to get back close up. Then I started down the street, and the regular weekly edition of Life magazine came out and shows me in about three different pictures going down the street. Then my next shot was taken at the very--in fact, the shot caused me to squeeze the camera shutter, and I got a picture of the President as he was hit with the first shot. So instantaneous, in fact, that the crowd hadn't had time to react.
John Anderson:
And yet Willis also says...
Mr. LIEBELER. You couldn't tell whether he was hit by the first shot? You couldn't tell whether he had been hit by the first shot or the second shot or the third shot, or by how many shots he had been hit?
Mr. WILLIS. No, sir; except this one thing might be worthy of mention. When I took slide No. 4, the President was smiling and waving and looking straight ahead, and Mrs. Kennedy was likewise smiling and facing more to my side of the street. When the first shot was fired, her head seemed to just snap in that direction, and he more or less faced the other side of the street and leaned forward, which caused me to wonder, although I could not see anything positively. It did cause me to wonder.
Mr. LIEBELER. You say that the President looked toward his left; is that correct? Toward the side of Elm Street that you are standing on, or which way?
Mr. WILLIS. In slide No. 4 he was looking pretty much toward--straight ahead, and she was looking more to the left, which would be my side of the street. Then when the first shot was fired, she turned to the right toward him and he more or less slumped forward, and it caused me to wonder if he were hit, although I couldn't say.
And that's the thing. He says he heard three shots. He says the first shot happened at the Stemmons sign as he took slide 5, yet he says Jackie snapped her head in JFK's direction at the first shot. She can be seen clearly doing that at late z160's and continues looking at him until the throat shot happens. His (Willis) recollections don't match the Z film, or Jackie and Connolys statements.
The evidence is conflicting all round as we all know. What we must do at some point is decide which is reliable. Is the Z film accurate? If so who's testimonies can be corroborated by the film and testimony of others.
Joe Elliott:
--- Quote from: Pat Speer on January 26, 2018, 09:05:44 AM ---
This brings me to Robert Croft. Croft's famous photo was taken at Z-160. He never said anything to indicate this photo was taken after the first shot. He made a point, however, of stating that his fourth and final photo (which didn't come out) was taken simultaneously with the fatal shot. This suggests, then, that he would have said something if his third photo was taken less than a half second after the first shot. And yet he said nothing. Near him, moreover, were two other photographers, Betzner and Willis. Betzner's photo was taken at Z-186. He said the first shot came just after. And Willis' photo was taken at Z-202. He said the first shot led him to click the camera. This is one of the many reasons some believe the first shot was fired circa Z-190.
--- End quote ---
Which brings me to Ike Altgens.
It?s funny. Whenever CTers wish to establish support for a later first shot, they site Hugh Betzner, or Philip Willis, or both, but never Ike Altgens.
Hugh Betzner took a photograph at z186, which he said was taken just before the first shot.
Phillip Willis took a photograph at z303, which he said was taken just after the first shot.
Taken together, Betzner?s and Willis?s memories mean a shot between z186 and z202.
However, Ike Altgens took a photograph at z255, which he said was taken just a fraction after the first shot. By which I believe he meant, a fraction of a second after the first shot, and not a fraction of a minute or a fraction of a fortnight.
Quote from Mr. Altgens of part of his testimony to the Warren Commission:
I made one picture at the time I heard a noise that sounded like a firecracker--I did not know it was a shot, but evidently my picture, as I recall, and it was almost simultaneously with the shot--the shot was just a fraction ahead of my picture, but that much---of course at that time I figured it was nothing more than a firecracker, because from my position down here the sound was not of such volume that it would indicate to me it was a high-velocity rifle.
Taken all three witnesses together, this means the first shot must have occurred:
** after frame 186
** and before frame 202
** and after frame 236
Clearly at least one of the witnesses has to be wrong. Perhaps all three witnesses are wrong.
What I believe the testimony of these three witnesses most strongly support is not when the first shot occurred, but the strong desire for the photographers to believe that their photograph was taken at a historically significant moment, if not at the time the President was struck in the head than as close as possible to the very moment the first shot was fired.
Ray Mitcham:
--- Quote from: John Anderson on January 26, 2018, 05:46:09 PM ---
The evidence is conflicting all round as we all know. What we must do at some point is decide which is reliable. Is the Z film accurate? If so who's testimonies can be corroborated by the film and testimony of others.
--- End quote ---
You're starting to understand, John.
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