JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate
The shot sequence, bang......bang......bang?
Pat Speer:
--- Quote from: John Agee on January 11, 2018, 09:23:49 PM ---Pat, going with the collective statements from the witnesses, there were 3 shots. Do you agree that Kennedy is hit at Z313 and Z225, and those 2 frames (or very close), account for 2 of the 3 shots?
--- End quote ---
No, I don't agree. It's quite clear to me that Kennedy is hit before going behind the sign in the Zapruder film, and that Connally is hit circa Z-225. This is one of the many reasons I reject the single-bullet theory, which, in turn, is one of the many reasons I suspect there was more than one shooter firing upon Kennedy.
John Agee:
--- Quote from: Pat Speer on January 12, 2018, 09:16:06 AM ---No, I don't agree. It's quite clear to me that Kennedy is hit before going behind the sign in the Zapruder film, and that Connally is hit circa Z-225. This is one of the many reasons I reject the single-bullet theory, which, in turn, is one of the many reasons I suspect there was more than one shooter firing upon Kennedy.
--- End quote ---
Thanks for your reply Pat. It appears to me you think there were more than 3 shots, is that correct? How many shots do you think were fired?
Allan Fritzke:
--- Quote from: Pat Speer on January 12, 2018, 09:16:06 AM ---No, I don't agree. It's quite clear to me that Kennedy is hit before going behind the sign in the Zapruder film, and that Connally is hit circa Z-225. This is one of the many reasons I reject the single-bullet theory, which, in turn, is one of the many reasons I suspect there was more than one shooter firing upon Kennedy.
--- End quote ---
Do you believe the Zapruder Film can be used for timing or will you pick and choose which frame someone was shot in? I assume you accept it if you are using it for timing in my quote of you above. To me it is clear that JFK was hit behind the sign. He was waving before the sign to the crowd and as he emerges from the sign, he grabs his neck. Connally continues to look around and shows no evidence of being hit. I will repost my analysis of the Zapruder film which was lost during the forum reset where all threads were lost! Many years later, his wife who I assume was still sleeping with him, should have known where the shots came in at! She really stretches it whenever she is in the media limelight!
Connally and JFK wer looking at the umbrella man located in front of the road sign at frame z-225. At Z-226, JFK grabs his neck. Obviously that bullet was a small calibre bullet that caused the President to slump - certainly not a rifle shot. That is the best shot angle for anyone to take to minimize the risk of ever hitting Connally. The umbrella man and the guy (known as the Cuban), waving his hand in the air beside him are very suspicious! Only one guy with the umbrella and the other one arenot clapping, one with an open umbrella and the other with a hand fully raised in the air! The road sign nicely obscured this event and Zapruder's filming of the event from his pedestal. Connally eventually turns around by Z-275 to see what damage was inflicted to the President. Kellerman has a good look as well. Meanwhile driver Greer looks for the signal and the white marker in the grass to stage the final assault. Obvious glass shatter/light reflection in my discussion below, cannot occur if Kellerman was still in his seat and not ducked out below dash level!
By the reflection of glass spray, from behind the windshield at Z-322 and again in Z-329, you can easily determine the timing of the sequence of event which have occurred. At 18 fps, the time can be readily calculated, the first shot at Z-225, the next following at Z-322 gives you 5.5 seconds apart. The final shot at Z-329 is a mere 0.5 seconds later. You can't be using a bolt action sniper rifle to do this but need a handgun at close range! If you believe that the Zapruder Film was real, (only camera man to get paid - $150,000 for his footage), look at the frames. I believe the car was travelling at about 5 mph when the 2 shots came in. Just a rough guess when looking at the white spot movement in the grass- 4 feet movement between shots (1/2 a second) which is 5 mph. Certainly speeded up once the assassin at the front of car rolls out of the way! Again, all crowd at back side of car in distance, can't see this event. Obviously, even the so called camera men in Z-345 don't even flinch as assassin rollsin behind. All there films are misdeveloped! Obviously, they were part of the assassination team as they have no reaction and no film!
https://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/
It is pretty clear that the film was heavily tampered with. Frame Z-313 and Z-314 were painted in. Eventually by Z-320, his blurred head becomes visible again and fairly white looking - a lot of blurring added! You can see the "red" blob magically reappears over Kennedy's head again at Z-331. This of course coincides with the frontal headshot at Z-329. So......a reintroduction of paint! Obviously it was after this, that Jacqueline decides to flee the car as over 5 seconds has passed and no one even considered trying to protect the President! So sad when no one can see the obvious! The testimonies introduced years later are so full of holes, that obviously the whole event is a coverup!! The first interviews are the only ones that make the most sense! Obviously from the interview with Malcom Summers in 2002, he was not the assassin rolling into the grass after the shooting!
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1LOy810q48
Zeon Wasinsky:
Well, presuming Harold Norman was telling the truth, and did hear 3 shots in about 5 seconds, and combining that with CBS shooter experiment, NONE OF THEM were able to hit ANY targets on their 1st attempt, even without boxes in the way, and foreknowledge of target track and red on black background target, ALL MISSED on their 1st attempt.. NOT A SINGLE HIT???
Yet the WC wants us to believe Oswald without even having the advantages the CBS shooters had, was able to hit 2 of 3 shots, even AS HE MOVED from sitting on the box, taking one shot standing up, and then somehow in about 3 more seconds got off 2 shots that BOTH hit, one of which was head shot. ON HIS 1ST ATTEMPT!!!!
The shots that 2 expert military snipers said were impossible after seeing the 6th story SN, the boxes and the type rifle, the MC bolt action rifle.
But maybe Betzner and Willis are simply wrong, and both of them are mistaking 2nd shot for the 1st shot they both heard, Betzner hearing it just after his photo at Z186, and Willis, right at when he snapped his photo at Z 205.
So the WC knows the 5 seconds is out, and so they HAVE to spread the shots out at least to about 8 seconds to make it plausible. So they discount most of the ear witness, , like Norman and Lee Bowers, whom demonstrated 3 shots in less than 5 seconds, and in Bowers case, 2 shots within 1 sec apart.
The WC theory supporters will say Harold Norman is right, 3 shots fired, but wrong, 3 shots fired in less than 5 sec as Norman demonstrated. Betzner is wrong and simply missed hearing a shot prior to his Z186 photo. And Willis is wrong, and must be mistaking a shot heard also, prior to Z186 as a shot at Z223, even though Willis said the 1st shot he heard was nearly simultaneous with his photo taken at Z205.
Otherwise, 3 shots were fired between Z195 to Z313, of which the spacing between shot 1 and shot 2 is only 1 second apart, since Z223 is NOT the shot which caused Willis to snap his photo, so it HAS to be a shot BEFORE Z 223, but NOT BEFORE, Z186, because Betzner heard nothing until AFTER he took photo at Z186. Nor did Willis hear a shot before Z186 either, hearing only the 1st shot of 3 shots he heard, beginning at Z205.
And Charles Brehm. The WW2 combat veteran. Doesnt react until after Z313. Seriously??? A guy who said he heard all 3 shots, but he did NOT EVEN MOVE to protect his son, during the first 2 shots? A combat veteran would KNOW gun shots RIGHT?? But Brehm does not react??? WTF??
And the woman walking across the green, TWO SHOTS ALREADY FIRED.. LOUD NOISES.. the woman is completely oblivous.. doesnt even react until the head shot at Z313... Same with the 3 men on the stairs. no reaction until the head shot.
Even the JFK limo occupants, Jackie, Connally, Greer, Kellerman, seem oblivious until the head shot. They seem like people who have NOT actually heard 2 shots fired, but are only observing the EFFECT of those 2 shots, which is JFK slumping, and Gov Connally laying back.
Even the SS agent Clint Hill who was keeping his eye on JFK , does not seem to be exactly sure what has happened, even though 2 shots have been fired by Z255. If the WC believers are suggesting that the 1st shot was fired before Z186, then why are no SS agents looking back, even as late as Z207???? Surely they should have reacted to noise coming from behind at Z 160, or Z 150.. But no... they remain looking forward all the way to Z207.. very strange.
Robert Reeves:
--- Quote from: Zeon Wasinsky on January 21, 2018, 09:44:04 AM ---If the WC believers are suggesting that the 1st shot was fired before Z186, then why are no SS agents looking back, even as late as Z207???? Surely they should have reacted to noise coming from behind at Z 160, or Z 150.. But no... they remain looking forward all the way to Z207.. very strange.
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Kellerman WC testimony, below.
--- Quote ---Mr. KELLERMAN. As we turned off Houston onto Elm and made the short little dip to the left going down grade, as I said, we were away from buildings, and were there was a sign on the side of the road which I don't recall what it was or what it said, but we no more than passed that and you are out in the open, and there is a report like a firecracker, pop. And I turned my head to the right because whatever this noise was I was sure that it came from the right and perhaps into the rear, and as I turned my head to the right to view whatever it was or see whatever it was, I heard a voice from the back seat and I firmly believe it was the President's, "My God, I am hit," and I turned around and he has got his hands up here like this.
--- End quote ---
In the Gif above, you can see Connally turning his head to his right, reacting to something, he then quickly snaps back towards his left, Kellerman, in front of Connally, also moves towards his right, the Zapruder film catches his head in profile view. Kellerman's head is fully in profile at z-151. Kellerman's testimony appears to be consistent, re z-film.
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