JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate
The shot sequence, bang......bang......bang?
Walt Cakebread:
--- Quote from: Joe Elliott on February 06, 2018, 06:19:07 PM ---I don?t think anyone can get off two shots, accurate or inaccurate, within a fraction of a second.
But how about getting a ?Crack-Thump? from just one shot. Would that count as getting two loud sounds, within a fraction of a second of each other? A single shot that could be misinterpreted as two separate shots, almost one top of each other? I think that could be done.
If the first shot, at z152, did not pass by Mary Woodward, she might not hear the ?Crack? of that shot. But she may have been able to hear the ?Crack? of either of the following two shots.
--- End quote ---
how about getting a ?Crack-Thump? from just one shot. Would that count as getting two loud sounds, within a fraction of a second of each other? A single shot that could be misinterpreted as two separate shots, almost one top of each other? I think that could be done.
You're right Mr Elloitt..... I've actually experience the sound of three bangs from a single shot.....The bangs were very close spaced and might be confused with separate shots ....
I was down range from a hunter who fired a shot over my head ......I heard the bullet break the sound barrier over my head then the muzzle blast of the rifle, and then the bang of the bullet hitting a nearby tree or something...
All three bangs were very closely spaced.....
So a person down range from a rifle might hear two closely spaced shots...... However in this case then Woodward would probably have hears six bangs ( if there were three shots ) However the sound of a bullet hitting flesh does not create a bang....( it sounds like a hard slap) ....so Woodward should have heard four bangs .....( and a couple of slaps)
but more closely spaced that could be accomplished with a cranky old bolt action rifle.....
Joe Elliott:
--- Quote from: Walt Cakebread on February 06, 2018, 07:07:36 PM ---
how about getting a ?Crack-Thump? from just one shot. Would that count as getting two loud sounds, within a fraction of a second of each other? A single shot that could be misinterpreted as two separate shots, almost one top of each other? I think that could be done.
You're are right Mr Elloitt..... I've actually experience the sound of three bangs from a single shot.....The bangs were very close spaced and might be confused with separate shots ....
I was down range from a hunter who fired a shot over my head ......I heard the bullet break the sound barrier over my head then the muzzle blast of the rifle, and then the bang of the bullet hitting a nearby tree or something...
All three bangs were very closely spaced.....
So a person down range from a rifle might hear two closely spaced shots...... However in this case then Woodward would probably have hears six bangs ( if there were three shots ) However the sound of a bullet hitting flesh does not create a bang....( it sounds like a hard slap) ....so Woodward should have heard four bangs .....( and a couple of slaps)
but more closely spaced that could be accomplished with a cranky old bolt action rifle.....
--- End quote ---
You are assuming a witness will always have perfect recollections. But maybe they won?t. Maybe they might remember one ?Crack-Thump? pair as two shots and another as just one shot. It may be that they had the best recollection with the last ?Crack-Thump?, when they started to realize that something was amiss.
Also, Woodward was certainly not downrange of a hypothetical shot at z153. Only downrange of shots at z222 and z312.
Also, I understand some witnesses did remember all the shots occurring in pairs.
Andrew Mason:
--- Quote from: Pat Speer on February 06, 2018, 06:25:24 AM ---FWIW, Mary Woodward's recollections do not remotely support a first shot miss circa 150-160, a second shot hit circa 224, and a third shot head shot at 313.
(11-23-63 newspaper article Witness From the News Describes Assassination written by Woodward for the Dallas Morning News) : After acknowledging our cheers, he [JFK] faced forward again and suddenly there was a horrible, ear-splitting noise coming from behind us and a little to the right. My first reaction, and also my friends', was that as a joke someone had backfired their car. Apparently, the driver and occupants of the President's car had the same impression, because instead of speeding up, the car came almost to a halt. Things are a little hazy from this point, but I don't believe anyone was hit with the first bullet. The President and Mrs. Kennedy turned and looked around, as if they, too, didn't believe the noise was really coming from a gun...Then after a moment's pause, there was another shot and I saw the President start slumping in the car. This was followed rapidly by another shot.
(12-7-63 FBI report, 24H520) She stated she was watching President and Mrs. Kennedy closely, and all of her group cheered loudly as they went by. Just as President and Mrs. Kennedy went by, they turned and waved at them. Just a second or two later, she heard a loud noise. At this point, it appeared to her that President and Mrs. Kennedy probably were about one hundred feet from her. There seemed to be a pause of a few seconds, and then there were two more loud noises which she suddenly realized were shots, and she saw President Kennedy fall over and Mrs. Kennedy jumped up and started crawling over the back of the car.
(Interview in The Men Who Killed Kennedy, broadcast 1988) ?One thing I am totally positive about in my own mind is how many shots there were. And there were three shots. The second two shots were immediate. It was almost as if one were an echo of the other. They came so quickly the sound of one did not cease until the second shot. With the second and third shot I did see the president being hit. I literally saw his head explode.
Woodward saw Kennedy react to a shot fired after he passed her, and then saw his head explode when two more closely bunched shots were fired. Although she later made it sound as if she saw him hit by the second shot, and then hit in the head with the third shot, her earliest statements do not support this, and her continued claim the last two shots were on top of each other undermines this claim.
--- End quote ---
You are quite right. Mary Woodward definitely recalled the last two shots closer together - the reverberation from the first (of the last two) had not died out before the last shot sounded. If her recollection of the shot spacing is correct (and she is supported by dozens of others who reported the same spacing) she must have been wrong in her "hazy" impression that JFK was not hit by the first shot. A possible explanation is that she was watching Jackie more closely immediately after the first shot. She says that they both turned and looked around but only Jackie appears to have turned her head. No one else said that JFK looked around.
Jack Nessan:
--- Quote from: Pat Speer on February 06, 2018, 06:25:24 AM ---FWIW, Mary Woodward's recollections do not remotely support a first shot miss circa 150-160, a second shot hit circa 224, and a third shot head shot at 313.
(11-23-63 newspaper article Witness From the News Describes Assassination written by Woodward for the Dallas Morning News) : After acknowledging our cheers, he [JFK] faced forward again and suddenly there was a horrible, ear-splitting noise coming from behind us and a little to the right. My first reaction, and also my friends', was that as a joke someone had backfired their car. Apparently, the driver and occupants of the President's car had the same impression, because instead of speeding up, the car came almost to a halt. Things are a little hazy from this point, but I don't believe anyone was hit with the first bullet. The President and Mrs. Kennedy turned and looked around, as if they, too, didn't believe the noise was really coming from a gun...Then after a moment's pause, there was another shot and I saw the President start slumping in the car. This was followed rapidly by another shot.
(12-7-63 FBI report, 24H520) She stated she was watching President and Mrs. Kennedy closely, and all of her group cheered loudly as they went by. Just as President and Mrs. Kennedy went by, they turned and waved at them. Just a second or two later, she heard a loud noise. At this point, it appeared to her that President and Mrs. Kennedy probably were about one hundred feet from her. There seemed to be a pause of a few seconds, and then there were two more loud noises which she suddenly realized were shots, and she saw President Kennedy fall over and Mrs. Kennedy jumped up and started crawling over the back of the car.
(Interview in The Men Who Killed Kennedy, broadcast 1988) ?One thing I am totally positive about in my own mind is how many shots there were. And there were three shots. The second two shots were immediate. It was almost as if one were an echo of the other. They came so quickly the sound of one did not cease until the second shot. With the second and third shot I did see the president being hit. I literally saw his head explode.
Woodward saw Kennedy react to a shot fired after he passed her, and then saw his head explode when two more closely bunched shots were fired. Although she later made it sound as if she saw him hit by the second shot, and then hit in the head with the third shot, her earliest statements do not support this, and her continued claim the last two shots were on top of each other undermines this claim.
--- End quote ---
(Interview in The Men Who Killed Kennedy, broadcast 1988) ?One thing I am totally positive about in my own mind is how many shots there were. And there were three shots. The second two shots were immediate. It was almost as if one were an echo of the other. They came so quickly the sound of one did not cease until the second shot. With the second and third shot I did see the president being hit. I literally saw his head explode.
Maybe Woodward wasn?t as ditzy as she appeared. Dealey Plaza was referred to as an Echo Chamber. With the first shot the rifle was most likely retracted inside of the window so as to not be seen.
John Iacoletti:
--- Quote from: Joe Elliott on February 01, 2018, 02:14:43 AM ---A shot at z153 is based on:
** One of the three strongest camera jiggles before z318.
--- End quote ---
There's a jiggle at around Z293 that is just as strong. Why do you disregard that one?
--- Quote ---** Rosemary Willis starting to slowdown and stare in the direction of the TSBD in the z160s.
--- End quote ---
What makes you think she's looking at the TSBD?
--- Quote ---Oh, yes, and Connally saying he heard a gunshot and he turned to his right but could not see the rifle. And then was shot a few seconds later. This indicates a shot just before the z160?s.
--- End quote ---
Connally said that the first shot he heard struck the president.
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